The connection between love and politics—that was the topic of commentary in yesterday’s paper written by Gregory Rodriguez, a columnist for the Los Angeles Times. The article, Love and politics in a cynical age, got me thinking about the consistency of behavior.
Rodriguez summarized how Americans have come to view the private lives and public lives of the people we elect to represent us. He wrote:
The truth is that we don’t generally associate politics or politicians with happy marriages and deep romance, let alone fidelity. The constant revelation of scandals and peccadilloes in the halls of power have trained us to expect the worst of those—particularly the men—we elect to shepherd and protect the interests of society. Somewhere along the line, Americans have even bought into the notion that a politician’s private life, in particular his love life, has little or nothing to do with his efforts on behalf of the public good.
In other words, people seem to think that just because an elected official cheats on his spouse, it doesn’t mean we can’t trust him with our tax dollars.
Not everyone holds this view. Ross Perot, who ran for president in 1992, famously said that at his company, EDS, lying, cheating, stealing and adultery were all grounds for dismissal. If he were elected, he said, the same standard would apply. Perot said:
“If a man’s own wife cannot trust him, how can the American people?”
This, I think, is a legitimate question.
Different behavior
People often ask me if a sociopath will be “different” with a particular person. For example, can a sociopathic man who hates and harasses his ex-wife love his children? Can a sociopathic woman who takes advantage of her family be true to her new boyfriend?
The short answer is no. Exploitative people exploit anyone who has something that they want.
The long answer is that exploitative people may seem to authentically care for particular individuals, but it’s probably just part of an overall scheme of manipulation. The sociopath is just softening up the target, preparing for the right time to strike.
Here is one of the most dangerous thoughts we can ever have: “Well, yes, he (or she) treated that person badly, but he’ll never do that to me!”
Remember: The best indication of future behavior is past behavior. If you know that a person has behaved in a deceitful or exploitative way towards someone else, sooner or later, the person will behave that way towards you.
Compartmentalize
So why do we compartmentalize? Why do people seem to believe that how our elected officials conduct their private lives has nothing to do with how they conduct their public lives? Why is it that when we hear of a powerful person who has a solid marriage, we are surprised?
Maybe we’re beaten down. Maybe we’re totally disillusioned. After all, stories of deceit, betrayal and treachery have been around as long as humans have told stories. Maybe we hear of so many scandals—from cheating spouses to tax dollars wasted—that we simply expect the worst of people.
Perhaps public life has simply gotten too easy in America. It’s not like the Revolutionary War, when men risked their lives and fortunes to stand up to the British. No, politics today is all talk and no consequences. That makes it an excellent career choice for sociopaths—all they have to do is be charming, charismatic and deceitful.
Sociopaths, after all, want power, control and sex. By getting elected, they have access to everything they want.
Liu Xiaobo
That’s why it’s so refreshing to hear about people, in this day and age, fighting the good fight from a foundation of love.
In the article that I quoted in the beginning of this post, the author, Gregory Rodriguez, also wrote about Liu Xiaobo. Liu is the Chinese dissident who recently won the Nobel Peace Prize. He, of course, was viewed as a subversive criminal by the Chinese government, and was not allowed to go to Norway and accept the prize. Rodriguez explained how his absence was handled in Oslo:
Actress Liv Ullmann read aloud the statement Liu released last December as he was awaiting trial for “inciting subversion of state power.” At the top, he sermonized against hatred (“enmity can poison a nation’s spirit”), but his ending was an exquisite love letter to his wife, Liu Xia.
“I am sentenced to a visible prison,” he wrote, “while you are waiting in an invisible one. Your love is sunlight that transcends prison walls and bars, stroking every inch of my skin, warming my every cell, letting me maintain my inner calm, magnanimous and bright, so that every minute in prison is full of meaning. But my love for you is full of guilt and regret, sometimes heavy enough to hobble my steps. I am a hard stone in the wilderness, putting up with the pummeling of raging storms, and too cold for anyone to dare touch. But my love is hard, sharp, and can penetrate any obstacles. Even if I am crushed into powder, I will embrace you with the ashes.”
Rodriguez viewed Liu’s words to his wife as a sign of passion and commitment, and the bad behavior in the private lives of elected officials as the opposite. The point, Rodriguez wrote, is that love begins at home.
How people conduct their private lives is absolutely relevant to whether or not they should be elected. People who cannot be trusted by their most intimate loved ones cannot be trusted by anyone. And people who feel genuine love and compassion for their families can extend their love and compassion for the greater good.
Petite: I GET IT I have seen enough evil to last me the rest of my life.
I’m gwawing on my own ankle right now.
When I read many of the post here about peoples spath—most of it just dosen’t compute or relate to my situtation but then again it was short lived (7 months). I’m beginnigng to believe I got scared of my own joy. Crazy right?
Katy Did You can’t unring a bell. Love you guys I’m headed back to bed to get a few winks.
Stay Strong Stay Safe and Stay Sane
Hi SIC 1
I laughed when I read your comment – OMG what if he comes next week, and says =I’m divorced, I am here for you.
You are so so right.
what if I had not checked with Oxy and all of you here.
what if I did not pay attention to my gut feeling and start reading up about AsPD.
I would have gone straight ahead with his crap and fallen flat on my face.
thanks so much, they say God always finds a way to save you and for me that was Oxy and the wonderfully supportive posters here at LF
petitie
Hi Aussiegirl and EB,
a thankyou note for helping me with the timely advice.
I have been reading your advice to posters on the other topics. very useful.
Aussieg – I will be in Australia in Mar 2011 for a conference. maybe we can meet. (Smile)
petite
Katy,
I do not believe you are without compassion for me. Just so you know that.
I find myself grieving as well as confused. I thought I would share that here while trying to develop some insights.
I read on another thread, I think the one posted yesterday about getting out of the relationship slowly, while building confidence in self, still believing his words of love in bait, going back, but having built enough confidence and not wanting to put up with the crap anymore….in other words, the manipulations, etc were no longer working.
This is what happened to me. I can’t put my finger on when it happened, but I knew the build up was coming. He wanted to spend more and more time with me, while he was love bombing other women. The things he was asking me to do, were things I wished he had wanted me to do in the past….but I just couldn’t bring myself to do it. I had booted him out of my “lunch” life when I stopped drinking. I would drink when I saw him at his house in the evenings, but I wouldn’t spend a lot of evenings with him. I made up excuses not to go. I couldn’t tell you why I was making those excuses and I still can’t, I can only guess. He was doing what I had hoped he would do for years. Yet he annoyed the shit out of me. The drinking frightened me, the abuse I was tired of. The jekyl and hyde. IN having a window of opportunity to be with him in his house, he and his wife divorced, there was something awful about it. He treated me like garbage and his habits were often annoying. I remember trying so hard to make him happy still, cooking dinner together and I would accidentally scrape metal on metal while cooking or on a plate and he would LITERALLY put his hands to his head and RUN from the room out the front door. He’d tell me, “i’m sorry, this is not your fault” but yet every time this happened, I felt HORRIBLE…how can I avoid scraping metal to metal while cooking or a plate for Christ’s sake??? Being with him made me feel UNSETTLED inside. I can’t explain that. I just felt totally unsettled and then frightened. He did the most awful things to me in unpredictability and lying, that I didn’t know what was coming next. He would literally beg me to spend the night. I couldn’t. Why would he even ask? One minute he was desperately needy for me, the next raging, out of control, telling me I didn’t understand him when he said nothing about what I was to understand!!! It was taking me from my studies so the boundary for me was that schooling was most important to me, so I focused on it. I had a hell of a term last term. But I pulled through and I did it (unless I saw him) without alcohol. I felt better about myself. Still frightened and uncertain about my future, I plugged onward. Somewhere inside me, I was breaking free, but still deeply attached. Sexual bonding. Even though that was awful too. I could not understand why he hated me. He said he loved that i was becoming independent and that I was unreachable, a challenge, yet when I continued towards my independence, he would be MORE needy of my time, requests and then accusations and flat meanness when I wouldn’t comply.
Now, I’m devastated. I found out he has another woman and is sexually intimate with her. That was damned fast. Was it because I wouldn’t give him the time he needed, would things have changed had I done so? I’ll never know the answer to that question, but given that he was trolling other women while begging me to be with him,….it doesn’t make sense to me. Another part of me, just knew it wasn’t goign to work. I had grown on some level, away from his trauma and abuse. I got sick and tired of hearing his constant rantings and victim stories…sick and tired of it. When I offered ANY “love” or “advice” while comforting him, sucking up BIG time, I was always accused of not understanding, it didn’t matter if I asked questions that provoked him to thought or not.
I have to admit, on the darker side of myself, this was also about winning. FINALLY, we would be together after all the hell we’d been through. Finally. WHen I found out he was love bombing another woman from his reunion and the ways in which he did it, I was totally devastated. He has given me flowers and gifts before, but never the way in which he spent money and love bombed this other woman. Never. I was never with him single. He was never interested in me like that as a single man. In all the years I was with him, I wasn’t worth that kind of pursuit, when he tried to bullshit me into believing that I was.
This is the most painful thing and keeps me stuck. Is she getting the goodies? Of all the women he married in his life (two) were they worthy of more? This is the VERY bag he held over my head for years and years. In this dark side of me, I feel like I lost the best thing that ever could have happened to me if he had loved ME. I hate feeling that way. And I remember what it felt like to be with him. But was that reserved for just me? The way he treated me? Do you see the confusion? There were times that he was affectionate and kind to me, and that was few and far between and fake. What is true? What I saw? Or the privileged who actually got the love bombing and then the prize? Even though I know there was no prize. At least not for me.
There has been tremendous growth in my life since extricating myself from him little by little, but now I doubt what I saw as reserved for punishment from him of only me. There is also a side of me that says I could not and after a time, would not, give him anymore of myself than I did. I had run out of energy and desire too. I was frustrated and tired. ONe of the things that is also so very painful in his love bombing of other women and the one he has now, he will parade in front of his family, friends and kids. He NEVER once did that with me. I was the “mistress” and they all knew it. Would ruin his reputation that he has so set up for himself wouldn’t it? But that was just me, not these other women that were lovingly introduced into his life. I am a source of shame. I believed all the lies,only to find out, that of all the women in his life, I was the most disgusting and embarrassing TO HIM!!!
May I PLEASE have some insights here?
LessonLearned.
I went through hell trying to figure out what was wrong with me, why such a wonderful man would treat me in such a way. The more I tried to fix what I was being told was wrong with me, the worse it got.
It wasn’t until I realized he was a sociopath that it all made
sense.
If you have identified him correctly as spath, (and I think you have), the pieces start to fit. What makes up the character of sociopaths? Start with just three: Narcissism. Envy. Lack of empathy – ANY one of which renders a healthy relationship IMPOSSIBLE. Oops, I noticed I can’t continue without including deceit.
Everything in your post describes these three hyper-dysfunctions and the many deceitful lies he used to convince you that his dysfunctions are NORMAL and you were the one off-balance. (I call it mindf#@*ing b/c it’s not based on logic, it’s based on his whim.)
The biggest lie is that if you’d just get it right (and he’s withholding what ” it right” is) then you’d get the goodies. That’s classic victimization.
Your spath was similar to mine in that he is an opportunist. He constantly trolls for “supply” and EVERYONE is potential supply until THEY block his supply route.
You were never going to “win”, or “get it right”. NOBODY does. Proof is in front of you. He’s still trying to find the “supply” that satisfies him (and narcissistically angry – like a child b/c all the candy he ate gave him a tummy ache instead of filling his sweet tooth.)
In a world where it is hard to find a mate (and he knows that), he’s hooked you with a promise, a “carrot”. What are the goodies that you want from him? Love? Acceptance? Security? Respect? Companionship?
I had to learn EXACTLY what goodies I wanted and how to give it to myself in a way that SATISFIED ME. Then what my husband did made me feel sad (or annoyed, or made me laugh b/c it was such predictable childish NONSENSE) but he no longer had any hold over me.
For me, the rest of my healing is self-care and living with personal self responsibility. I found that if I focus on the right things for me, the bad stuff (such as people looking down on me) doesn’t have time to intrude on my world. When the bad stuff DOES intrude, I know to get busy and fill my time with good. (when I feel miserable, I go down my list of self-caring and do those things UNTIL I feel calm and content – and then I do one more.)
I have errands today but will check back. If you are patient with me I will answer.
It is confusing. And the loops you can go in trying to make some understanding of what happened to you in that relationship can throw you into more and more loops.
I remember what I went through trying to manufacture some reasonable way to understand how I felt and to make the memories worthy of holding on to. I remember how hard I tried to find plausible ways to explain what had in fact, happened.
No matter how I went around about it, a couple of things became evident.
1. I’d been lied to both by omission and commission.
2. The normal boundaries of a relationship had been perforated like a swiss cheese.
3. There was no way to make sense of the whole thing without elaborate inventions on my part.
4. It didn’t matter what he said or did, those things would always be true.
He lied to you. He took advantage of your goodwill and in so doing made you feel creepy and the good news is that you are growing and going on.
No matter what he is doing with other women, he’s probably doing the same things that he did and making them feel as uncomfortable as you felt.
The best thing in your life isn’t the kind of thing that would drive you to drink and feel that way.
Remember, no matter what he says, he lies. For the purpose of his own gain. So what does it matter what he says about you? he lies. he lies. he lies. For gain.
If he says something awful its only because he thinks it will get him what he wants somewhere else.
Because that is what HE does.
Keep doing what you do which is knowing and growing away from that place you were in when he made sense.
You are doing OK. And for you, over time, its going to get better. For him, it will always be another day, another lie.
Breathe deep and think how lucky you really are that he is gone.
Katy,
Makes perfect sense.
You said, “I had to learn EXACTLY what goodies I wanted and how to give it to myself in a way that SATISFIED ME. Then what my husband did made me feel sad (or annoyed, or made me laugh b/c it was such a predictable childish NONSENSE), but he no longer has any hold over me”.
That’s very interesting. Your last paragraph is interesting to me as well. Would you mind sharing with me personally what you do with self care and what you mean exactly with personal self responsibility (On this one I think I know what ya mean, but just need clarification and a lot of that right now!). What is your list of self care? I seem to be clueless on this.
The only thing that has brought me into a world of growth and personal responsibility that i love is school. The problem with that is I fear the outcome. I know I’m intelligent enough to get through school, but interracting with the world, finding a job, is fear paralyzing for me. It isn’t that with academia that I can’t do it. I can. And do it well, it’s the emotional aspects of it. Fear, not feeling like I’m good enough, not feeling like I’m pursuing what I really want to do. I’m not sure where I’m going or what I’m doing.
This term, i’m taking a psychology course and (YAY!) we will be studying personality disorders later in the term. We also have to find articles and STUDY it!! This is a GREAT opportunity to share this experience and teach others about it! THAT gets me all excited!
Right now, all my classes are online. I saw Spath yesterday and it really triggered me deeply. I feel safe here at home, don’t wander out much when I know he’s at work and at times during his lunch hour (I was, unfortunately, out during his lunch hour). I have great friends on FB that I banter back and forth with, some of whom I’ve gone to school with. One I am to meet for lunch here soon at school. I fear interraction. This person is so awesome and a healthy person. I adore her. She is also a woman of incredible faith and has been a tried and true friend throughout all of this.
I want so much to recover, but I feel so tired, Katy. I wish I could get a hold of the books RIGHT NOW that people on here have recommended but I can’t for another week or so.
In short, I feel lost right now. I don’t know how to untwist my mind from all the garbage. I keep telling myself how twisted and sick he is. There is proof of that all over the place. LIes everywhere. I know he’s lying to the next one too, just like he did his last love bomb attempt.
There are moments when I experience peace and a deep sense of safety while at home. Surrounded by my children, my dogs and my school work. Katy, I have a question for you, and perhaps others can assist. I work hard in school. I did well last term and held my boundary to my commitment to school even though Spath was pissed off about that, even while he said he “supported” me. He did not. The demands grew WORSE. I held steadfast. I think this is pivotal for me because I wasn’t willing to give up what I had worked my ass off for. Spath didn’t like that. I think he wanted to destroy me. He wanted a drinking/fuck buddy and I was beyond that. It was misery to be around him,with bits and pieces of fun, but his victimy position, constant barrage of negativity to others, etc, wore me DOWN!!
Is throwing myself into school a healthy thing? Or just a distraction? What constitutes a distraction vs. something healthy?
I’m patient and look forward to your response. Thank you, Katy.
Silver,
Thank you. I cherish these posts. If I have to, I will read them over and over as reminders. ANd I may well have too.
I notice that I’m okay for a time, then I get triggered because I see him or there is a number on my phone that rings and I don’t recognize (he has multiple cell phones) and do not answer.
Thank you for your contribution, Silver 🙂
Shabby Chic.
No. Nothing I said was personal. Just thoughts reflected on your post.
If we passed each other on the street, we’d be strangers.
All there is here, are our stories.
And they are different. As we are strangers to each other.
Two strangers who have in common that we have been through hell and that we are empathic towards others who like us have had terrible experience with the disordered and all of the chaos resultant from it.
After nearly 40 years in the saddle its rarely been my experience that any two horsepeople could say the same thing and agree, let alone anything different.
But, I hope you had a good ride. Churchill said (if I remember) and uphold; “The back of a horse is a good place for the soul of a man.”
It comes to after a couple of days of ruminating, that the past is. And that whatever I have or you may have learned are separately true. And with their separate results.
I have no personal judgement of you. If we were to pass on a sidewalk, we would be still nameless and faceless. The nature of this place is impersonal.
And I doubt that any history is made or changed because of the stories we tell. What people do beyond this place is so very far removed.
But I remember the days when I held on here as though for dear life in the midst of a perfect storm. I remember how much it meant in the fresh realization of what had happened to me to have a place to go to connect to people who could understand how awful the experience was without judging me for having it.
I am grateful in these days to revisit the refuge again and again. To see and read familiar voices. Each time, I gain from my visit, from the interactions, from the residual inspired by it.
I think Gem’s story is poignant. I understand that pain tells us a great deal about where we are stuck. I have gained much from reading about it. Very interesting!
The road my son and I have been down is filled with it. And there is still more road to go. I envy that you have reached conclusion.
And somewhere in between, we will find the answers to all of it.