The connection between love and politics—that was the topic of commentary in yesterday’s paper written by Gregory Rodriguez, a columnist for the Los Angeles Times. The article, Love and politics in a cynical age, got me thinking about the consistency of behavior.
Rodriguez summarized how Americans have come to view the private lives and public lives of the people we elect to represent us. He wrote:
The truth is that we don’t generally associate politics or politicians with happy marriages and deep romance, let alone fidelity. The constant revelation of scandals and peccadilloes in the halls of power have trained us to expect the worst of those—particularly the men—we elect to shepherd and protect the interests of society. Somewhere along the line, Americans have even bought into the notion that a politician’s private life, in particular his love life, has little or nothing to do with his efforts on behalf of the public good.
In other words, people seem to think that just because an elected official cheats on his spouse, it doesn’t mean we can’t trust him with our tax dollars.
Not everyone holds this view. Ross Perot, who ran for president in 1992, famously said that at his company, EDS, lying, cheating, stealing and adultery were all grounds for dismissal. If he were elected, he said, the same standard would apply. Perot said:
“If a man’s own wife cannot trust him, how can the American people?”
This, I think, is a legitimate question.
Different behavior
People often ask me if a sociopath will be “different” with a particular person. For example, can a sociopathic man who hates and harasses his ex-wife love his children? Can a sociopathic woman who takes advantage of her family be true to her new boyfriend?
The short answer is no. Exploitative people exploit anyone who has something that they want.
The long answer is that exploitative people may seem to authentically care for particular individuals, but it’s probably just part of an overall scheme of manipulation. The sociopath is just softening up the target, preparing for the right time to strike.
Here is one of the most dangerous thoughts we can ever have: “Well, yes, he (or she) treated that person badly, but he’ll never do that to me!”
Remember: The best indication of future behavior is past behavior. If you know that a person has behaved in a deceitful or exploitative way towards someone else, sooner or later, the person will behave that way towards you.
Compartmentalize
So why do we compartmentalize? Why do people seem to believe that how our elected officials conduct their private lives has nothing to do with how they conduct their public lives? Why is it that when we hear of a powerful person who has a solid marriage, we are surprised?
Maybe we’re beaten down. Maybe we’re totally disillusioned. After all, stories of deceit, betrayal and treachery have been around as long as humans have told stories. Maybe we hear of so many scandals—from cheating spouses to tax dollars wasted—that we simply expect the worst of people.
Perhaps public life has simply gotten too easy in America. It’s not like the Revolutionary War, when men risked their lives and fortunes to stand up to the British. No, politics today is all talk and no consequences. That makes it an excellent career choice for sociopaths—all they have to do is be charming, charismatic and deceitful.
Sociopaths, after all, want power, control and sex. By getting elected, they have access to everything they want.
Liu Xiaobo
That’s why it’s so refreshing to hear about people, in this day and age, fighting the good fight from a foundation of love.
In the article that I quoted in the beginning of this post, the author, Gregory Rodriguez, also wrote about Liu Xiaobo. Liu is the Chinese dissident who recently won the Nobel Peace Prize. He, of course, was viewed as a subversive criminal by the Chinese government, and was not allowed to go to Norway and accept the prize. Rodriguez explained how his absence was handled in Oslo:
Actress Liv Ullmann read aloud the statement Liu released last December as he was awaiting trial for “inciting subversion of state power.” At the top, he sermonized against hatred (“enmity can poison a nation’s spirit”), but his ending was an exquisite love letter to his wife, Liu Xia.
“I am sentenced to a visible prison,” he wrote, “while you are waiting in an invisible one. Your love is sunlight that transcends prison walls and bars, stroking every inch of my skin, warming my every cell, letting me maintain my inner calm, magnanimous and bright, so that every minute in prison is full of meaning. But my love for you is full of guilt and regret, sometimes heavy enough to hobble my steps. I am a hard stone in the wilderness, putting up with the pummeling of raging storms, and too cold for anyone to dare touch. But my love is hard, sharp, and can penetrate any obstacles. Even if I am crushed into powder, I will embrace you with the ashes.”
Rodriguez viewed Liu’s words to his wife as a sign of passion and commitment, and the bad behavior in the private lives of elected officials as the opposite. The point, Rodriguez wrote, is that love begins at home.
How people conduct their private lives is absolutely relevant to whether or not they should be elected. People who cannot be trusted by their most intimate loved ones cannot be trusted by anyone. And people who feel genuine love and compassion for their families can extend their love and compassion for the greater good.
Hi Friends,
I am new and the much talked about dear dear Oxy’s friend.
Oxy has been my guardian angel since past 3 years,.
Oxy has given most of my story to you, the first guy was not really a boy friend, it was more one-sided, he flattered me and I felt so carried away that someone of his high professional status was giving me so much attention. I was the one yearning for his approval and attention at all times, he used me and I allowed it and I did know that it was quite one sided but I thought he may finally realise how much I care and make me the ‘chosen one”. I got to know his wife in good time and she told me of his deeds, he was a narcissist, it all fizzled out, with much hurt to me, however, with Oxy’s help, I healed completely from him.
I am a workaholic and do not go out with guys, drinking, clubs, bars etc. I am home and work bound.
3 years later at a conference I met this very nice person (A), we spoke a bit and then the emails started. We are both in the medical profession, however, we live not only in different cities but different continents. Now with A, it was different, he is very fond of me, it is very bilateral, a proper 2 sided relationship. when I met him he was still married and he said he was going to divorce soon and he told me his marriage is a mess becoz he cheated 6 times on the wife, he does not know why he went astray, but this cheating mode lasted for 3 years or so ( one time he even got a colleague at work home over the weekend when the wife and kids were overseas), until he got infected and had to confess to the wife. then ofcourse, the wife was upset, counselling, etc. I did tell him that I was aghast and shocked with his past and how I found it so bad and wrong. The wife threw a fit and He stopped all the womanising and would take the wife and kids to all overseas trips, so at no time he was alone. 2 years ago, there was a meeting in this country, from where he had one of the affairs. the girl had since got married and has 2 kids. when he went to this meeting, he was alone and he went and touched base with this girl – had dinner with her +hubby and kids. Right after, he called the wife (long distance) and told her about it as he did not want to hide it. The reason he said he did not tell her in advance was that she would not allow him to go for the conference and the reason he touched base with her, becoz, he saw a movie called”Flowers” where Bill Murray, the actor, goes and meets his ex girl friends and realises that there in so magic, they are just all as ordinary and live the same life, it seems magical when we first meet, but finally life is the same and there is no magic. A wanted to learn this for himself.
after this the wife was furious and cheated on him and told the kids about the father and the kids stopped talking to him for a while and at this stage he decided on the divorce.
Now after he met me and we got fond of each other and yes I was a bad girl, I indulged with him, however, later I did say if we were to meet again, he should move out and start the divorce. he said he would end 2010 and yes, oct 2010, he has moved out and they are in mediation for divorce.
Now, what happens to me, he said he wanted to be honest and tell me his ugly past so that I know it all and that he does not want to reconnect with that past.
As Oxy said he is very polisehd, manners, professional background same as mine and hence we have intellectual comaptibility. I am 48, he 49, I am divroced with no kids, so no baggage for him. I am financially independent.
anyway over the 9 months that I know him by email and we met 3 times at meetings, he is nice as long as things go his way. He does like to win arguments and tries to be defensive.
In 2 weeks time he visits my country for a big international convention, I had told him I would put him up at my house and I said any more interaction, needed him to have moved out. so folks, now here we are, he has moved out for real, divorce is in process, he kept to his word and my condition.
He is very loving and nice to me, and I am scared as I have read so much about sociopaths.
He has not yet done anything mean to me, but I know, that once a cheat, he wil cheat again, as of now, he is in the lovebomb stage with me.
I want to back out, but as you can see, it is not so simple.
A professional colleague, I fell in love with, whether he is a lie/fake or not, he still abided by my saying – no interaction, if no moving out. He says he is so fond of me.
this is too long a story, more later. some thoughts please.
Oxy has given me pages of advice, to tell him that I do not feel like being with him. Her advice is good, but I just wanted to share this story with all of you.
skylar, Lesson learned – thanks for your support and replying to Oxy’s concerns for me.
Petite,
Welcome to Lovefraud. I am so glad that you are Oxy’s friend – I’m sure she gives you good advice.
We all deserve true loving relationships that are built on trust. There are trustworthy men out there. I’m not sure this guy is one of them.
Many of us have been swept up by the appealing package – polish, professionalism, etc. But sometimes the package is empty.
If you start feeling uneasy, please do not talk yourself out of your feelings.
Dear Petite,
I’m so glad that you came here and registered.I know you have read here for a long time.
If a guy buys you dinner, and takes you out and starts making out with you, and then you go back to his hotel room and take your clothes off and start making love but JUST BEFORE it happens, you say “NO, I CAN’T DO THIS” you still have that right to say NO! Even at the last second.
If you are in a wedding, getting married and at the last second at the altar you want to back out YOU CAN DO SO.
NO one has the right to say, “Oh, but you led me on” or “Well,l you said yes earlier so I am going to have sex with you whether you say no or not.”
The thing is from a DISTANCE the BF can be on his “best behavior” all the time, and you can’t see him in various situations, BUT he has told you enough about how he treated his wife, he didn’t tell her he was cheating until he HAD TO because he gave her an STD….and then he went to counseling with her and then he said she had an affair “Paid him back.” Well, you ONLY HAVE HIS WORD FOR THAT, it might not even be true.
That’s the thing, I don’t think you can depend on JUST ONE SIDE of the story of their marriage as being THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.
Even though you had agreed that he could stay 3 days of the conference at your place, I think you can back of that arrangement by saying “Oh, so sorry, I had intended to have you stay at my place for those three days but something has come up (be vague about what) and so I have made you a reservation and XYZ hotel and since I had promised you a room, I will pay for it.” As for the trip/vacation you had planned for afterward, I would simply say “I”m sorry, I had wanted to go but I will be unable to do so.”
He will most likely push you to explain, and I can almost hear him saying “But you said if I left her we could be together” and trying to make you feel guilty because he “left his children” and so on. Petite, you are NOT responsible for his marriage being a wreck, HE IS. If he were an honest man, he would have said to you, “Petite, I am very attracted to you, but I am still married and living in the same house with my wife and sleeping with her in the same bed and having sex with her but I do intend to divorce her and when I am separated I would like to get to know you better.”
Instead, what does he do? He says to you, “Well, SHE expects me to continue to have sex with her and I AM OBLIGATED TO DO SO because we are married, but yet, he still wants to have sex with you as well. That is NOT AN HONEST OR HONORABLE MAN, and if he will cheat on her WITH YOU, he will cheat on YOU with someone else.
I realize he is not rude and hateful to your face like the first guy, but you know, I think he is just a psychopath/narcissist with GOOD MANNERS when he wants to have them, and all he is doing now is “love bombing” you to get his hooks in you. I am sure at some point, he “love bombed” his soon to be X-wife as well.
Your good manners and good reputation don’t depend on going through with letting him stay in your house those 3 days or in going on the trip with him. Even though you said “stay at my house” and “ill go on the trip” prior to this, you are NOT OBLIGATED TO CONTINUE THIS, you can “politely” get out of it, even if it makes him angry….that is just too bad. You are NOT OBLIGATED to make him happy at your own expense.
Petite, put yourself first!!!! This man does not deserve any good woman, and you are more than just a good woman, you are a trophy catch of the century! You know I love you my friend! ((((hugs)))) Oxy
Petite…… Welcome.
I wrote this post, deleted it (as it seemed a bit harsh) and wrote it again…
Reading your post I think you have the right to say NO at this stage (if that’s what you’re asking)
Ask yourself what is his plan when the 3 days are up?
Look at his track record……
Why does he want to jump from his current situation into a relationship with you? a bed? place to stay? security?
My spath used the ploy…. ‘move in for a few days’ and then never wanted to move out!
If he really loves you he will wait until YOU are sure that this relationship is what you want.
I think if you reject him he will run straight back to his wife.
Maybe I’m being harsh but at times like these our judgement can be clouded.
Just my immediate thoughts for what they are worth.
petite, hello !!
I agree with you that you should back out, I disagree with you that it is not so simple. Just tell him he has to leave, I don’t think you need a long explanation, you have changed your mind, that’s it.
Since he is a cheater and the only reason he stopped was because of an infection (if he really did stop, who knows?)… well I just see misery ahead for you, he will be running around all over the world to these conferences and you wll be home, crying, wondering who he is with. Right now he is going along with your plan, on his best behavior, but as soon as he’s got you where he wants you… he will revert back to what he wants. Like you said, he is nice as long as things go his way. Classic.
I don’t want this for you. The fact that your instincts are telling you this is all wrong is something you cannot ignore at this point. If you feel this unsure now, it will only get worse.
I am so glad Oxy is your friend and that she has been giving you guidance on this relationship. She has helped me sooooooo much over the last few years, wish I could just dial her up & chat!!
Petite,
I’ve been through something similar. Even some of the words said are precisely how Spath approached me. He also promised that when he divorced, we would make the relationship go. Nope. Only for a little while, until he nailed someone else.
There are so many red flags here, I can’t even tell you, but ONE of the things that stands out and that Ox brought up, is that you are only getting ONE side of the marital story!!!!! And TRUST me on that, I can tell you right now that this man is and has been, lying to you. ANY man that demonizes his wife, and makes himself exclusively the victim is NOT to be trusted, whether he is Spath or not and in my opinion, this man IS. Just my opinion. If he cheated on her, and was so disrespectful, unkind and uncaring in doing so, the SAME will be done to you. My ex Spath’s ex wife cheated on him towards the end of the marriage. WELL DUH!!! Living with that kind of absolute misery and wanting out…not knowing how, you’re dealing with a SPATH here, sleeping in separate bedrooms, years and YEARS of lying and cheating and abuse….who WOULDN”T cheat? He was the KING of withholding love, affection. Those were reserved and used just in case he thought she or I was moving away from the relationship. Or if he wanted sex. Nothing MORE. CLEARLY you have something he wants FOR THE TIME BEING….nothing more! “obligation” was the word my ex Spath used a lot!!! A LOT!! also a huge red flag. “I’m obligated to have sex with her, I’m obligated to go home to her”…blah blah blah…..in all of that he is EXCUSING his behavior towards YOU, but creating guilt on your part because you could SEE how that might be….if you’re one with emotions, but it’s not LIKE THAT for him at all!!
Petite, if you go with this man, if you give in, don’t trust your gutt, I can honestly tell you that the outcome will devastate you. You’re in SUCH a great place to end it NOW before WORSE happens. You have a great friend in Ox!!! you’re so lucky!! I sure wish she was around when Spath was trolling me, but eh…anyway….LISTEN TO YOUR GUTT and LISTEN TO HER!!! Spare yourself anymore pain. You’re worth SO MUCH MORE than this man will NEVER give you!!!
He has no guilt, remorse or anything else for what he’s done to his wife. ANOTHER big HUGE red flag waving in the wind. Because he is true to his word on getting a divorce and having moved out, MEANS NOTHING…he didn’t keep his word to HER and he’s justifying the pain and lack of remorse/guilt he has….watch carefully!! Whatever he is doing to her, IT WILL BE DONE TO YOU!!!!! Try as hard as you can to envision how SHE must be feeling!!! What HER side of the story is. Observe how YOU would feel if this were being done to you!! I know that’s so hard, and I believe you want to believe…but it’s all an illusion.
YOU”RE WORTH SO MUCH MORE!!!
Dear Lesson Learned, I can’t agree more with what you said to Petite. She is such a wonderful, beautiful, smart, successful, KIND AND CARING individual and deserves so much more than a man who has been (and will be again) a serial cheater. NO MATTER HOW SUCCESSFUL, HOW GOOD HIS PUBLIC MANNERS, or anything else. The man is only concerned with hooking this TROPHY woman and then will treat her just as he treated his wife, DISHONESTLY.
This guy reminds me of a “Tiger Woods” type guy. Successful and smooth on the SURFACE but underneath just an UGLY CHEAT. Petite is known over the world as an expert in her profession and so is he. She is well known and well liked in her profession…in fact my son was very impressed when you could google her first name (unusual) and her profession and photographs of her at conferences all over the world came up! LOL I also realize that it is difficult to meet “suitable” men who are available—especially when you are over 40, there just aren’t that many men available for the number of women who are single, but if you are also looking for someone who is successful, bright, realizes what kind of pressures are involved in your professional life, etc. it makes it extremely difficult to meet men that you would be interested in. The fact that Petite looks like a model makes lots of guys interested in her though! LOL
Ox,
Even extremely wonderful,professionally successful women can get lonely 🙂
He’s playing the success card. The “we’re in this together, baby” card.
I respect those who have worked very hard to achieve their goals and are a success in their fields, like Petite….BUT there is so much more to life than that. She obviously knows that too, right?
I’ve learned to look at it this way: Success and manners, etc, are just the shallow end of the pool. It’s what’s underneath all of that that matters. When you die, you’re not just leaving behind the “successes” you’ve had professionally, you’re leaving your heart behind with those that love you and that you love. 🙂
Spath’s won’t leave that behind. Destruction and sorrow will be all anyone remembers,………….other than those in their “professions” who had not a clue and were lucky ENOUGH not to be tainted by their shallow, if not empty shells.
Petite, you deserve much better. MUCH better. You’re right Ox, there AREN”T many men out there, comparatively to single women. I’m 47. I don’t have much hope, but at the same time, right now, I’d MUCH rather be single and enjoying my life or rather at this point in my life, learning to do so, than being emotionally abused, devalued and devastated by a Spath.
Petite, last piece of advice for you, dear: R-U-N!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Petite,
you are a professional and intelligent woman – that’s your problem. Our strengths are always our weaknesses.
I noticed that everyone keeps bringing that up. Oxy did, and you did. It’s what seems to stand out most about you. And you base the value of a potential mate on being equal to your level of intelligence and social standing. This is the hook. This is what a sociopath sees about you. The sociopath sees that and wants to knock you off your pedastal. They hate for anyone to have any glory or happiness.
I will use that same hook now to motivate you to drop this guy like a rock: HE WILL SLANDER YOU AND DESTROY YOUR REPUTATION. You will end up being talked about and whispered about. ALL SPATHS DO THIS. They all SLANDER the victims, even as they destroy us emotionally. You can kiss your reputation good-bye if you continue with this cheating man, even if he leaves his wife. Because when he starts to cheat on you, he will tell others that it is your fault, because of some terrible thing in you. My exP did this, all of our exP’s here at LF have done it. It isn’t just your feelings that will get hurt, or the risk of infection with venereal disease, you will lose your reputation as well. They can’t stand to let you keep your good name.
When you drop this guy, the next thing you need to do is look at yourself and begin to research WHY you attract these kinds of people. Learn more about yourself, look at yourself objectively and see what you are thinking that leads you to be prey for a predator. You will find it hard at first, then as time goes by it will feel so good that you will crave to discover more about yourself. You will have AHA! moments and they feel great. Your world will open up.
Welcome to LF.
Sky,
Beautifully worded. And so true. You totally nailed it!