In 1978, Rodney Alcala of California approached Liane Leedom, who was 17 years old at the time. He struck up a conversation, showed her some of his photographs, and then asked to photograph her. Although he was later convicted of murdering four women and a girl, Rodney Alcala did not kill Liane Leedom.
In 1983, Brian Dugan of Illinois abducted and murdered a 10-year-old girl. The next year he raped and murdered a 27-year-old woman, and the following year he raped and murdered a 7-year-old girl.
Both of these men are psychopaths. They’re both facing the death penalty for their crimes. But last November, at Brian Dugan’s sentencing, defense attorneys argued that because the man had a personality disorder, because he was incapable of experiencing normal emotions like remorse, he should get life in prison, not death.
Kent Kiehl, Ph.D.
The star witness in the plea for leniency was a prominent psychopathy researcher, Kent Kiehl, Ph.D. of the University of New Mexico. Kiehl evaluated Dugan according to the Psychopathy Checklist-Revised—the murderer scored 37 out of 40.
Kiehl also scanned Dugan’s brain using fMRI (functional magnetic resonance imaging). The technique measures blood flow within the brain, which is thought to reflect brain activity. It shows which area of a person’s brain “lights up” with different thoughts.
According to Miller-McCune Online Magazine,
The scans show that the psychopath’s brain does indeed look different from others. “This shouldn’t really surprise people,” Kiehl said. “When your behavior is very different, your brain is different.” He estimates that 15 to 20 percent of prisoners in minimum to medium security prisons qualify as psychopaths, while the figure might run as high as 30 percent for those in maximum security.
Kiehl thinks it’s absurd to execute convicted murderers who have malfunctioning brains. “It’s kind of like telling a patient who has dyslexia to go read Faulkner, or something really difficult,” he said. “They have no chance, but you’re going to punish them because they can’t read?”
Kiehl testified about Dugan’s fMRI scans in the sentencing hearing—the first time fMRI evidence was ever used in court. The psychologist was asked if Brian Dugan had a normal brain. He said no.
Mitigating factor
Psychopathy, the defense team said, was a mitigating factor, a reason why Dugan shouldn’t get the death penalty. But why wasn’t it an aggravating factor?
Yes, psychopaths do not feel normal emotions, and perhaps we should feel sorry for them because of it. But psychopaths know the rules of society. Even if they don’t feel any emotional inhibition about raping and killing, they know on an intellectual level that these behaviors are wrong and can get them arrested, tried and possibly sentenced to death.
Other experts espouse this point of view. Stephen J. Morse, a professor of law and neuroscience at the University of Pennsylvania was also quoted in the Miller-McCune article:
All the law really requires, he says, is a general capacity to understand and follow rules. “The law doesn’t really ask a lot of us,” Morse said. “How hard is it to know that you shouldn’t kill people, you shouldn’t rape people, you shouldn’t burn buildings that aren’t yours, and you shouldn’t take what doesn’t belong to you?”
Neuroscientific expertise may also become a double-edged sword that could be used against defendants, he warns. “There are going to start to be prosecution experts who are going to come in and tell the jury why this doesn’t have the implications that the defense claims,” he said. “Rather than being mitigating, for example, evidence of brain abnormalities might be aggravating because they will indicate that the defendant is particularly dangerous.”
Capable of choices
Psychopaths do exercise choice. They are capable of controlling their behavior when they want to. Rodney Alcala killed four women and a child, but he did not kill Liane Leedom. Perhaps he killed the others because he thought he could get away with the crimes. But he could have chosen not to kill them either.
A diagnosis of psychopathy shouldn’t be used to get people off. It should be used to convict them and send them away.
For further discussion of these issues, read:
A mind of crime—how brain-scanning technology is redefining criminal culpability, in Miller-McCune Online Magazine.
Science in court: Head case, in Nature.com.
Thank you to the Lovefraud reader BloggerT7165 for sending a link to this story.
oxy – if brain scans will become definitive, court ordered /admissible in the future it might work.
no spaths and an ass? you have my vote.
wow, the world would look really different.
Dear One-step,
Some people are pushing this fMRI as a viable “scan” but the thing is it is in my opinon a FRAUD—as they got the SAME “results” using a DEAD FISH instead of a live human in another experiment.
I wish there was a blood test or a brain scan that is difinitive, but my guess is because there are LEVELS of P-ness, there’s no way to “measure” the danger they are by our laws.
Is emotional abuse and soul rape the same as murder? Is being a mean boss but breaking no laws the same as working kids to death? Where do you draw the lines?
(the following paragraph is TONGUE-IN-CHEEK)
I think it would be a great idea if people who had genetic diseases were not allowed to have children. It would wipe out all genetic diseases, and we CAN test for most of these things, and you know, while we are at it let’s not let anyone who is retarded or has a low IQ have children either—sounds “good” but who is to draw the line and where? Nazi Germany bought into that kind of thinking about diseases and genetics and look what happened!
We know a lot of diseases are genetic or partly so, yet people still have kids, knowing they may give birth to a child who is destined to live a painful life and die a painful death. We know smoking is bad for you, but people will do it, we know drugs are bad for people and booze, but people still do it. Humans are not all that rational in the end and unfortunately, there are not “easy” or “black and white” answers to things.
Prohibition outlawed booze cause it was a “bad thing” and look what that did, caused the rise of the Mafia and organized crime which is still here long after prohibition is gone. We decided as a country and government that “drugs are bad” and prohibited THEM and look what we have accomplsihed, drugs are WIDELY AVAILABLE and WIDELY USED and the narco gangs are murdering our embassy workers in Mexico and Mexico’s government is completely unable to contain the narco gangs because the police and the government and the military have been SO corrupted by the huge amounts of money involved that crime WINS out!
Sure there are LOTS of things that are “bad fer ya” but just proscribing them as “illegal” and arresting people for doing them are NOT going to stop people. You think prostitution has been wiped out cause it is ILLEGAL? LOL
I wish the government would “get real” and realize there are some vices we can’t control or stop, so they might as well admit they can’t and focus on something they might be able to stop.
oxy – my bottom line would include markers about harm and recidivism (as we are also talking about people in the criminal ‘justice’ system) and potential for treatment.
and the debate is very important – the only way we would ever figure it out.
many people with mental diseases – many in my family have caused great distress – my mom’s dad tried to kill her mom – more than once. i know he was alcoholic and depressive. (he might have been a spath, i have NO idea) but would depressive be enough reason to knock out his gene line? what about other mental illnesses. the answer for me is no. (and please no one be offended by talking about mental illness, it’s an important part of looking at where lines are drawn. we know that people of all sorts, who deviate from any projected norm can end up on a list – i am an anxiety ridden, lesbian with fibro and a genetically defective heart, who has been depressive at times. i also have jewish and native blood. i would have made it on to many historical lists of people whose DNA should be eradicated from this earth)
and the answer is no, because there is POTENTIAL for treatment and a life doing no more harm than most people.
xx one step
Dear Conomo,
I moved my answer over to this thread because I can more easily and quickly respond to your post on the thread about “consequences”–
Your admission that you use your parsley cigarettes and a plentiful amount of red wine to “cope” with your stresses clarified for several people that were confused by your serial one-line posts etc. I suspected at the time I read them what was going on and that you were NOT a troll but iinstead someone with a SUBSTANCE USE PROBLEM, which I clarified with you using as muchy TACT as I COULD MUSTER.
You came back in response to me, admitting that you had indeed used SUBSTANCES and that you were “turning over a new leaf” and that you were goikng to CLEANSE your body from all the “toxins” etc. and for a few days or so you posted in such an UPBEAT MANNER and seemed to be “getting it” and moving on….
Then, back to posting DURING the use of mind altering SUBSTANCES with though you might not have (at the time at least) thought your postings were rambling or didn’t make much sense or certainally weren’t uplifting it was pretty apparent to me that you were again using MIND ALTERING SUBSTANCES to cope with your stress.
YOUR STRESS WAS REAL….your pain was real, but I am here to say again, and will not change my stance on this, the use and over use of the mind altering substances to cope with stress is not a PRODUCTIVE OR HEALTHY WAY TO COPE, but only adds to the stress and the problems you already have.
I think I can safely say that there is no one here who will not be supportive and uplifting to you in your rawness and pain, or who wants you to leave here, but I do sincerely hope that you will find other ways to cope with your stress than parsley cigarettes and booze. I suggest that you find a 12 step program near you and get the support you need for that problem from the people who can help you in face to face, real life support for that problem, but STAY HERE for support for healing from the encounter with the psychopath.
I think if you go back and rre-read my posts from last night that you will find that I did not speak of anyone who had been here posting in several MONTHS, and the people that I did refer to were all banned by Donna for their aggressiveness to others here months ago.
The point of my posts was that even here at LF trolls DO come along, but not everyone here who causes upset, suspicion or even hurt is a troll. That is why I direct any problems I have with YOU to you, and any problems I have with Trolls to DONNA.
Dear Oxy,
Not for one minute did I think you were speaking in double speak I totally appreciated that you made mention of specifics when speaking of an unwanted troll.
As for parsley cigarettes they are not an everyday indulgence nor is wine. Thank you again for your suggestions. My first husband was full blown alcoholic and I am very aware of the programs out there. I don’t believe that is necessary while also know that binging will not take the problems away.
Dear Conomo,
“Binging” as you refer to the behavior we have been speaking of and underscoring that you know about the programs out there and that you were married to an alcoholic, and your admission that “binging will not take the problems away” yet still seeming to think that the episodic drunk or getting high is somehow theraputic doesn’t register with me.
I think it was Einstein who said “insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”
While I think that maybe short term “binging” might be a temporary solution to your stress problem, I think in the long term, the “binging” becomes a problem in itself. Not everyone who gets drunk becomes an alcoholic and allows booze to ruin their lives, and I have in my younger days “prayed over the porcelin god” and, GASP! ….Even smoked a parsley cigarette or two, but I do know that neither of those “stress relief” tactics solves a single problem. I still drink an occasional glass of wine, but I haven’t been drunk in decades.
Personally, I wish “parsley” cigarettes were legal, just as booze is. Frankly I would rather meet a guy on the highway who had smoked a big “cigarette” than one who had just finished off a 24 pack of beer—the one is doing 20 mph and the other is doing 95 mph. And, legalizing either of them isn’t goin to make more people smoke or drink them, just decrease the price and give some tax revenue.
It is your life and if you choose to “bing” or “get drunk” (my preferred term) or get “high” then you have the choice to do or not to do, but I’m not going to tell you that I think that IT IS A GOOD CHOICE IN MY OPINION, but it is your choice, your body, your problems, your solutions or escapes.
That’s what adulthood is all about, making our choices, and living with the consequences.
I sincerely hope that you will find your way on the road to healing and that your recovery from the trauma of the encounter with the psychopath(s) will be swift and sure. The purpose of LF in my opinion again, is to help and encourage one another in making HEALTHY CHOICES and to comfort one another when we make poor choices so that we will learn from those poor choices and make better ones next time.
Good luck on your journey, and God bless you ((I((hugs)))) Oxy
LOL Oxy You Are Great…..I agree 110% with everything you’ve said! I don’t do the great white telephone thing though.
I had an energy treatment last night and it brought back some semblance of me again. The healer had to jump back initially from the super sonic vibrations I was giving. She actually offered me a glass of wine to which I initially declined and then said no…this is a sociable and acceptable time to drink and then I told her of my worries about binge drinking lately. She said that was understandable under the circumstances. She also then told me about being stalked herself by not ONE but TWO men at the same time. One of them was an investigating officer for the stalking taking place of the ex husband….grr …anyways, I did only have that glass and did not open a bottle when I got home. I make my own premium wine. Thank you Oxy once again for the straight up talk, the concern, the support and encouragement. Blessings to you as well. xo
Conomo:
I want to clarify my posts to you….
About the same time you changed your name, your posts started making NO sense to me. I wasn’t aware that you were posting under another name and at some point I read that you were ‘former’ name. From there I tried to make sense of what you were going through and put it together on my own.
This is MY issue. I have a hard time following who’s who and it takes me a bit to figure it out. This was a result of my stroke. memory issues.. So I sat back and tried to figure it out…..without posting. I did see you announced your name change at one point, after I was confused by the postings and the ‘current’ postings didn’t seem to click with the former postings coherency…….and i really should write it down….becuase it leaves me as quick as I read it….then I can’t find the post again…..
My posts were not without thought, I was really trying to ‘know’ who you were.
But none of it made any sense to me…..
I pulled away, then I got irritated by someone asking to watch language (of which I’m a culprit)…and immediately you went into f-bomb mode in thenext post….my thoughts were this was antagonistic and I asked you WHY would you do this?
I was straight up in my feelings and I’m sorry the written word didn’t come through……at that point I decided one more post…..and then i’m done.
I wanted to give you the benefit of doubt, and I would never feel comfortable denying someone support who needed it here…..but I felt a total loss of connection and it was best for me to not post to you…..
I read your posts to me, but I didn’t want to get into anything or be fake to you…..and ‘go along’…..I felt I was being baited and I don’t fish.
I have to say, I found it upsetting to say the least. You played on my feelings as I went to bed…..thinking about if you were really someone who was crying out and I shut down….or a person with ill intent.
I’m not going to be played, and if I doubt, I back off…..
THIS is my reactions now based on my experiences with several S’s in my life.
I was attacked by you, incoherently at best…..but none the less attacked. I gave you my time under another name, when you made sense…..I got confused, asked for clarification, got babbly gook, watched another poster get f-bombed, then I got attacked with another poster…..
I was gone!
I was triggered by several things….and I did question your intentions…..after the f-bomb post.
So….I am willing to start anew…..but with caution….I hope you understand. THis is something no one can change, simply due to my life experiences….
I’m sure there is alot of folks on LF that don’t appreciate others postings…..that’s fine….read the ones we connect to and we can’t be overly judgmental of the others……just don’t respond…..this is a public forum….this is what happens.
I beleive laughter is a great healer…..I’m sorry if you don’t appreciate some humor here…..I speak for myself….I don’t wish to not include someone, and even through our sillyness, there is connection and it always turns out to be a lesson involved…..
We have to remember, we are online. WE build connections through our journeys and what we choose to share…….this is the whole reason I don’t think it’s a good point to meet everyone here….because I think it could be a disaster…..different personalies, and hurt feelings in person..major trigger points……..it’s easier to heal hurt feelings online, because we have to contain ourselves and self reflect while we sustain from posting pondering the thought…
RE: self medicating…..I think I’ve said enough on this….I think it’s irresponsible and I’ve spent most of my life hearing how/what ailments it cures…..well, my experience is ……parsley cigs don’t heal….they hurt! Because the peeps using them avoid.
Drinking…whatever, I’ve been known to enjoy a glass of wine here and there…..but like anything in life…..moderation is key and having the wisdom to NOT do certain things under the influence can greatly benefit US and OTHERS.
If you want to do whatever self Medicating….do it….I can’t stop you…..nor will I try……but please have enough respect for those of us here to not post and confuse us during this time…..I think this may be the root of the issue.
I mean you no ill will…..and I hope you take my directness as just something to think about….I am not the almighty know all….jsut my opinion on things….
For those healing from an experience of a Sociopath….we are on the same team!!! It does no good to work against each other.
Nuff said……
Conomo, My thoughts and feelingsa re exactly the same as Erin Brocks.my apologies if I have hurt your feelings. But I have to agree with whats been said, re drinking alcohol, and funny ciggies.They only confuse, and eventually you become totally incoherant. like the song by the bee Gees, “Words are all we have,”- on a website like this words ARe all we have to connect with, We dont have the benefit of facial expressions, body language, all the usual social markers we use every day.
Also I do admit to having a vey low tolerance of drunks,-I was married to an alcoholic for 19 years As for the F word, I havea low tolerance to that too,partly due to the fact my teenager used to shout it at me,{and worse!} I still think its overused, and self indulgent in the main.Its like anything, if used to excess, it loses its value.Please keep coming here, we are all on the same path! learning to overcome our former life with a spath.Good Luck, and {{HUGS!!}, MamaGem.XX
Dear Conomo,
Glad you didn’t take offense at the things I said. I do pretty well say what I think, and sometimes that’s blunt, but I do not ever have an intention to be snippy or nasty or hurt anyone’s feelings. (and in spite of that I still do hurt feelings here from time to time!)
I’ve made some pretty STOOPID decisions and justified them to myself and tried to justify them to others, but in the end, the decisions were STILL STOOPID and not healthy.
I realize we all learn more from our OWN mistakes and stoopid decisions than from others saying “that’s a STOOPID decision” but I guess hope springs eternal and I hope that someone might learn from MY stoopid decisions without having to remake every one. After I finally escaped from my sperm-donor Psychopath alive (barely) I spent almost a year “binging” (that’s “drunk” to those of you who don’t know the newer term of binging) I was 19 and severely wounded. Some how I managed to stagger through those “hippie” years without either becoming a drunk, drug addict or criminal or getting killed—Hey, I did California in the 60s kiddies! Unlike a lot of that generation at that time and place, I did have a job and a work ethic and some good adult friends who sort of kept an eye on me in spite of myself.
Learning to fix our stress and our problems without resorting to violating the 11th commandment—“thou shalt NOT FOOL THYSELF” has been a long time a-coming for me, but I’m working on keeping it together now day by day, and making better decisions. My hope and my prayers are that we can all keep moving in the right direction as much as possible with good choices and decisions and healthy decisions and choices that facilitate us being THE BEST THAT WE CAN BE!