By | December 8, 2012 52 Comments

Psychopathy is a disorder, not an adaptation

According to Merriam Webster online a pet peeve is something that annoys or bothers a person very much. One of my pet peeves is people of all sorts who say that psychopathy is “fascinating” or worse even assert that it is “beneficial”. There is nothing fascinating or beneficial about a disorder that is linked to child rape and murder of innocent victims and countless ruined lives. It also bothers me that professionals who talk about psychopathy in this way are sought after by the press.

Several months ago a lovefraud reader forwarded me an article I had not seen. Nepotistic patterns of violent psychopathy: evidence for adaptation? Linda and I wrote a comment on this paper and that comment has just been published. The comment argues that psychopathy is not an adaptation but is instead a “spandrel.” The word spandrel in evolutionary psychology is analogous to the architectural term. A spandrel, (also spelled spandril or splaundrel), is The roughly triangular wall space between two adjacent arches. This space has no meaning other than it is there because of other important features.

Psychopathy as a spandrel

Psychopathy as a spandrel

In my opinion psychopathy as no meaning outside of selection for high mating effort (sex drive) and social dominance. Both of these confer advantage when they are found in people who are able to love and care for others. To understand why psychopathy exists we simply need to understand the advantages of sex drive and dominance. We do not have to assume human predators are somehow “superior” beings.

To read our paper visit Is psychopathy a disorder or an adaptation? Please recommend the article on your social network if you agree with the article. If you choose to comment please do so respecting the scientific nature of the discussion.

Just remember spandrel… scoundrel same difference!

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Ox Drover

Liane I tried to comment, but it would not allow me to do so….here is what I tried to say.

As the daughter of a full blown psychopath (multiple murders and abuse to everyone involved with him) and as the mother of a diagnosed psychopath currently in prison for murder, and with other psychopathic relatives, I can testify that what the authors of this article wrote is true.

quote: “We applaud these authors for raising the issue of the treatment of relatives by psychopathic individuals as it is commonly asserted that offenders do better when they have supportive family ties (Andrews & Bonta, 2003). This assertion has caused mental health and criminal justice professionals to encourage family ties (Rotgers & Maniacci, 2005). There is little data regarding the impact of offenders on the family members who are asked to act as supports; if psychopathy is associated with harm to family members, it may not be ethical to encourage family ties. It is difficult to study the impact of psychopathy on the family because of ethical constraints on research involving prisoners and lack of access to psychopathic individuals in the community (Widom, 1977). A review of Cleckley’s cases (1964), surveys of people who claim relationships with psychopathic individuals (Leedom & Andersen, 2011), and qualitative analyses of memoirs written by the wives and adult sons and daughters of highly psychopathic individuals (Leedom, Bass, & Hartoonian Almas, 2012; Leedom, Geislin, & Hartoonian Almas, 2012) indicate that family members report considerable harm including psychological, emotional, financial and physical abuse and exploitation.”

I think it is completely unethical for the “system” to encourage abused wives/husbands to take back ex convicts into their homes, to encourage parents who have psychopathic children to be “supportive” to these people to their own detriment.

The AVERAGE PCL-R score of ALL convicts is 22 and 25% of all convicts score 30 or more (full blown psychopaths) so encouraging their family members to take them back seems to me to be abuse of the family.

Only about 40% of paroled ex convicts complete their parole term without being convicted of another felony for which they go back to prison. (NOT “technical” violations). So this means that the families who take them back have a 60% chance that the family member will reoffend and break the law….but the worse, in my opinionn, problem is the “under the radar” damage the convicts do to their families.

I have hired an attorney to FIGHT the last parole for my son and I am fighting the next one and will fight every one until the day I die, and my other sons will continue to fight his paroles as long as they are alive.

I have known and been associated with SEVERAL psychopaths in my family and I can testify that every one of them abused every family member—wife, husband, parents, siblings and children. There is no benefit I can see in the psychopath’s family.

The only “benefit” I can see in the genetics being passed on for psychopathy, is that because of the sex drive and the dominance drive, they may leave more offspring than non psychopaths. Also the psychopaths may have survived in tribal societies during periods of shortages of food and other resources because they would not have a conscience to stop them from killing others in order to obtain scarce resources.

I have seen the results when parents don’t “give up hope” that “Johnny will find Jesus” and stop stealing….or otherwise breaking the law. Families use scarce resources to hire attorneys, to pay for counseling, to pay for substance abuse rehab, and pay an emotional toll as well in trying to salvage the life of the family member who is high in psychopathic traits.

This is not to say that SOME criminals don’t come out of prison and lead a “law abiding” life afterward, but usually these “successful” men and women were not violent to start with and had personal resources; intellectually, educationally, financially and socially, on which to depend.

Just because ex-convicts “who have family support” do better after discharge does not prove that the family support is the CAUSE of them doing better. It may be that they have family support BECAUSE they are not psychopaths to start with, just run of the mill criminals, but low on the PCL-R.

I will fight my son’s parole as long as I am able. He is a danger to me and to society at large. I hope the parole board will continue to listen to me.

My spath brother had problems with the law all his life, mostly for using drugs and drinking. As a kid he was also arrested for a string of burglaries. Then, the last time he was arrested for drugs, I wrote a letter to the judge asking for leniency and I begged my parents to allow him to live in their basement. That’s before I knew what spaths were.

He actually has stayed out of legal trouble since he moved back to their house. But that’s only because he’s got his victims in the home. He is a parasite. He got what he wants. They barely speak with him, he hides in the basement, he has cable and internet access, food stamps (that he sells) so he can buy lotto tickets and beer. I think he occasionally gets temp jobs.

Being out of legal trouble doesn’t mean he is “better”, it just means his evil is now occurring off the legal radar.

Ox Drover

Skylar, you are right there and that is what the “system” (“criminal justice system,” boy, is THAT an oxymoron!!!) wants, they want the “nere’do’wells” of our society to be taken care of by parents, spouses, siblings, churches, etc. so that THE system doesn’t have to deal with them.

By the terms of the criminal justice system’s accounting, your brother is a big success. So what will happen to him when your folks die?


Man oh man! Thanks Liane, for researching, and fighting the good fight! We have to have The Science part of this process, to further verify what all of us already have experienced, and know.

They are sick. Period. Disordered. They will not, ultimately, even if they don’t perpetuate as much violence on their family’s (which is in question), contribute statistically to the overall survival of the human species. Which is what I understand adaptation to be, right?

I came away from reading this with the feeling that the real issue is just being approached, but also kind of side-stepped.

Unless I misunderstand, the perpetuation of the species IS the final scientific arbiter for ‘adaptation’? But abundant procreation, and protection of one’s family is a pretty superficial indication of nepotism….. and adaptation!

Are they inferring that the more psychopathic adapters we have the more likely the human race will survive, because psychopaths create and protect more individuals?

There has to be some way to illuminate that contrary to contributing to species survival individual ‘adapters’ tear down our general society and families in such a way as to counter act any positive influence their proclivity for procreation might infer.

I don’t see how ‘individual’ procreation, as in one psychopath being able to make LOTS of babies because they are dominant, can be identified as an adaptive response. What about all the peripheral costs of the adaptation they claim? The lost lives via murder, suicide. The loss in societal/business production due to emotional and psychological abuse and neglect? Genocide, mass financial loss, and war? These are all abuses of individuals and greater societies that are not adaptive!!!!

I think the net ‘loss’ to humans is palpable.

I don’t know how to measure the obvious, and not so obvious, destruction these individuals have on the world. But I know this cannot be a positive adaptation of human beings.


Liane and Linda, what a superb response!

I don’t believe that psychopathy or sociopathy is necessary for ANY reason. I’ve read many, many supportive articles and comments that ppathy/spathy is “necessary” aspect of humanity in that these disordered people effectively run businesses, corporations, and other organizations and this simply isn’t true. A successful business or organization becomes successful when strong ethics are practiced and expected of employees or other board members.

I believe that the reference to maintaining “family ties” is OUTSTANDING! “Family ties” do not, cannot, and never will alter ppath/spath choices and behaviors. “Family ties” only serve to ENABLE ppath/spath behaviors through blind support and denial.

Wonderful, wonderful article and thank you SO much for posting this! I sure wish you were speaking at my divorce action! LOLOL!!!

Brightest blessings

EDIT ADD: And, to drive the point home of the article, how does Jerry Sandspathsky’s exploitation and molestation of children benefit anyone? Many could argue that he’s simply an anomoly. From the percentages of people that I’ve known throughout my lifetime, it is NOT uncommon that vulnerable children are harmed by these predators. GO, Liane & Linda! GO!!!!!!


Off topic: this is sort of like “Mental Mythbusters.” Awesome.

Mincheff Joyce

A point I believe we can take away from the concept of the development of a psychopath and the value of family is that when raised in a physically harsh circumstance, the psychopath is more likely to conduct physical violence against others.

Whereas when raised in a more sustaining culture, the psychopath’s level of anti-social behavior is more likely to remain within the range of non-physical acts such as cheating, infidelity, white-collar crime, etc.

The problem for parents of psychopaths is that they can never emotionally disconnect from the feelings they have for their child, regardless of how massive the pain that the child produced for them.

At least when someone is love-bombed by a pshychopath, they have the ultimate ability to create emotional and physical distance. When the psychopath is your own child, even though one can distance themselves physically, the emotional distance is ever present.

I was emotionally raped and defrauded by a psychopath. I gave birth to a child who is very much like his father. The only saving grace that I can take heart in is that I must of done something right….. he’s not maniacally physically violent and could have become so. He’s just a manipulator, a bully, a thief and a cad.

To stem the future development of psychopaths, I believe society must become more aware of the signs in early childhood. I recognized my son had little to no empathy all along, but didn’t know what could be done about it. I wish I could go back and take steps to instill more humanity by doing things like exposing him to more charitable interactions with people and having him verbalize what he beleives others are feeling….. giving him training on how to react when he sees that aspect in people, or focusing him more on kindness with rewards for those actions.

I suspected maturation would instill empathy in my son. I didn’t recognize that phychopathy, among other things, is a delay in the maturation of empathy.


Fraudsurvivor, I believe that the emotional connection is amended with a sociopath child, over time and after sufficient recovery. My eldest son is clearly spath, and it’s been about 4 years since I began the arduous task of processing my relationship with him into a complete severence of emotional connection.

Do I still love that beautiful infant that I gave birth to? You bet I do. But, I do not “love” the adult that he has become. I wish no ill, but I won’t entertain spath games, either – not even from my own offspring.

I am not required or obligated to “like” the truth. Most often, truth is not pretty or warm-and-fuzzy. The truth is that my eldest son is a sociopath. No amount of love, understanding, encouragement, or support will change that fact. I don’t like that fact, one iota, but it is indisputable and undeniable. So, I either accept that fact and let go of the hopes and dreams that all parents place upon their children, or I maintain those false hopes and suffer exploitation. I’m not willing to allow myself to be exploited, anymore, by anyone.

Brightest blessings


My spath told me once that he had made a decision “never to be mean”. I thought, “How nice for a man to be that way”. HAH!

In reality what he meant was, “I find that I can exploit people more easily, the nicer I appear to them”. His “niceness” makes him all the more dangerous, in my opinion.

Off topic, I read on another page of LoveFraud (I can’t remember which one and can’t find it again), that it was questionable to mention someone’s name as a spath if they had never been charged with a crime. In fact, my ex-spath was charged, convicted, spent time in jail for, and is now out on 10 years probation making restitution. In addition, in my state, a person’s criminal record is available online for public record. Does that mean I can mention his name either here on LoveFraud or on any other sites? I realize this is a legal question, but I am interested. He is a very “nice” dangerous man.

Ox Drover


You said: “The problem for parents of psychopaths is that they can never emotionally disconnect from the feelings they have for their child, regardless of how massive the pain that the child produced for them.”

and you also said:

“I gave birth to a child who is very much like his father. The only saving grace that I can take heart in is that I must of done something right”.. he’s not maniacally physically violent and could have become so. He’s just a manipulator, a bully, a thief and a cad.”

And you said “I suspected maturation would instill empathy in my son. I didn’t recognize that phychopathy, among other things, is a delay in the maturation of empathy.

I would like to discuss some of these statements.

Number one….I think parents CAN disconnect from the emotional feelings concerning their offspring who are psychopaths. I have done so by “splitting” if you will my feelings for the child I gave birth do and loved, VERSUS the adult he became…the murderer he became.

Number two: you probably DID so something right, and/or your DNA diluted the DNA of the sperm donor. But there are LEVELS of psychopathy.

Number three. Yep, you are right. Lack of empathy is not always just a delay in maturation. But the lack of empathy is what we have to deal with in dealing with these offspring. Truthy, and others here, are in the same boat with you and me with psychopathic offspring…some worse than others. All causing us as parents pain.


Newlife43, I’ve posted that remark on numerous occasions because, unless a person has been charged with “alleged” crimes, naming someone as a perpetrator could result in ridiculous legal consequences.

My own situation is a prime example. The exspath coerced me out of nearly 300K and forged drafts from my individual account and even wrote his own signature on some of these drafts. His forgeries, alone, total over 75K, which consitutes a Federal Crime. Because he has not been charged with these “allegations,” I would face very serious legal consequences if I chose to post his legal name. I have bank copies of these forgeries. So does my attorney. So does HIS attorney. And, guess what? It is likely and probable that he will never face charges of forgery, fraud, or any legal misdeed.

So, what I posted was NOT intended to nullify anyone’s experiences, by any stretch of the imagination. My intent was to CAUTION anyone who is suffering the carnages of a sociopathic entanglement from doing something that will provide a predator a legal means to inflict even more harm.

I hope that clarifies my remark.

Brightest blessings


OxD, I’ve had to make that choice to disconnect from my eldest son. I’m not suggesting that it was any easy task, by any means. It’s more painful that disconnecting from the exspath, to be sure! But, my choice was to either disconnect and disallow the lies, thefts, forgeries, etc., OR deny the facts and enable his spath choices.

Brightest blessings

Ox Drover

Truthy, it does hurt and I am going on the THIRD year of disconnecting from my son C for lying to me….not the first or only lie, of course, the lying, breaking agreements, etc. goes back to when he was a teenager and NEVER STOPPED….and this last time was “no big deal”—at least what he lied about, or the agreement he broke. He isn’t a psychopath, he isn’t going to burn my house or shoot me, and if I called him to come help me, he probably would, but I know that there will come other times he will LIE TO ME, and he will leave me in the lurch, or even keep his mouth shut when someone else (one of his friends) is screwing me over….and he lies to his “friends” too….so you know, he isn’t a Psychopath, but he is a complete ARSEHOLE and I have the “no arsehole rules” but I remember how I cried, how I sobbed. How it broke my heart, but I don’t hate him, I’m not afraid of him, I actually love him but I do NOT like him and I do not want a relationship with him other than he and I watching out for each other where his brother is concerned. Before his brother’s buddy tried to kill him and farked is wife he was solidly in PATRICK’S CORNER…now he feels about Patrick like I do. It all depends on (as the old saying goes) WHOSE OX IS GORED.


OxD, it’s probably the most painful step that any parent is compelled to take. And, it’s’ been the hardest decision I’ve made, bar none. Excising the exspath was far easier.

Hugs to you…

Ox Drover

Yea, the ex BF P that I thought would rescue me from the grief of the loss of my husband was really painful when I realized what a piece of shiat he was (definitely a P) but now, there is NOTHING about him that would even upset me if I ran into him on the street, he is a NOTHING TO ME NOW…total indifference to him. With the kids I have to keep working on it, but with Patrick it is much MUCH easier since he tried to have me killed. LOL


Is everybody prepared for the end of time on dec. 21? i stocked up with a case of wine – it sure was nice meeting all you folks.


Have you ever tried Choco Vine.
It’s a chocolate wine. OMG……’s WONDERFUL!!
I stocked up today with it on sale…..bought 6 bottles for friends.
We’ll all be prepared for the ‘end’. LOL!


Moon, LMAO!

The skeery thing about this “prediction” is that some other cultist nuts out there are going to pull another “Heaven’s Gate” exit in anticipation of the world screeching to a halt on her axis. Oh, brother…..

Erin….oh, my….chocolate wine? Oh, my…..

Brightest blessings


EB, I have my Red Truck and Fat Basterd wine, oh and a bottle I will drink for my x its called Evil! Ok so a ”end of time party” on dec. 21 thats a friday nite around 10pm ..central standard time – byob – and we will all sing xmas carols..

Ox Drover

Ohhhhhhh, PART-TAY TIME AT LF. I have missed our saturday night part-tays guys! I ain’t never had so much fun with my clothes on! You guys are a hoot.

I am resting now after 4 days of back breaking bone crunching hard physical labor. We butchered 3 BIG critters….had two friends to help the first two days and one came and cut meat the second day, and today and yesterday I cleaned up equipment, and finished up all that today and I am tuckered out.

Got the last load of bloody clothes and gloves in the dryer, and they can sit there till tomorrow when I have more energy. I’m done for the day today.

Not bad for a fat old woman who just turned 66 on MOnday, who as some one else’s tendon in her leg which is working pretty darn well (still going to PT a couple of times a week and FAITHFULLY doing my home program.)

BTW my dog is gonna be eating HIGH ON THE HOG on meat scraps for a WHILE!

Yea, bring on the end of the world I got enough meat to throw a HUGE BBQ.


HAPPIEST OF BIRTHDAYS, OXD!!!!!! A little belated, but sincere wishes for a terrific year!


Wow Oxy, pretty impressive considering you’ve been recuperating most of the year. Happy belated birthday.


Skylar, indeed! OxD’s been dealing with that injury (and, others) for the better part of a year!

And, OxD, no more of those personal references of being “old & fat!” You’re beautiful, and that’s the truth!


kim frederick

Happy Birthday, Oxy. Hope it was a good one!!!

kim frederick

Did ya hear the one about the blondes who went out into the woods to find a Christmas tree? Well, they searched and they searched…for an entire week they searched for the perfect Christmas tree. On the eighth day, they were so tired and frustrated that they decided that they would cut down the first tree that they saw that morning whether it was PRE-LIT and bobbled with lots of bling, or not.

Ox Drover

Kimmie, cute! CUTE!!!!


Yes, Oxy…I hope you had a good birthday!!

Ox Drover

Yea, had a good country birthday, two friends came over and spent a couple of days helping us butcher a winter’s worth of meat and put it in the freezer and sent lots home with them as well (did 3 head of stock) so we all had lots of hard work but good fun as well.

Hard work is not bad when you share the task and joke as you work. We did plenty of that as well. At 66 I’m not as strong or up for as much hard physical labor as I used to be, but I did my share and am glad that this new tendon in my leg is working well. PT is kicking my butt, it should be called “Physical TORTURE” LOL but I am faithfully doing my exercises and stretches to get the leg back to working order and it is coming along pretty well. (Old folks heal slower than young ones unfortunately) but am glad to be walking again without any cane or crutch.

Thank you for your birthday wishes….hey, even the egg donor sent me a sappy birthday card…first one in 5 years! LOL ROTFLMAO Wonder if she will send me a Christmas present or card. LOL

Ox Drover




OxD, I am convinced that someone, somehow, knew that this man was unhinged – a ticking timebomb. Whether or not he was “mentally ill,” someone HAD to have seen instability.

And, to murder innocent children….? My son said it, best, “If someone’s contemplating shooting up as schoolful of innocent kids, they need to start with themselves.”

Godalmighty – I can’t watch any more of the reports, right now.

Ox Drover

Yea appears that he and one of his brothers were in it together, daddy was murdered then they went to the school to do in mommy and the kids–I don’t see this as any “psychotic break” or “crazy” I see this as a PREMEDITATED RAGE in which they may have egged each other on, but this was pure psychopathy as far as I am concerned. At least one of them was a full on psychopath! maybe both.


OxD, I agree. Was it the other brother that was found dead in the home?

I just can’t process what happened. Really, I can’t. Just like the Aurora theater shootings, VA Tech, the Amish school, or any of these other horrific rampages.

The official “profiler” was going on about how people who do this finally “snap.” I disagree that the shooter snapped – it was premeditated when someone walks in with an arsenal and just starts shooting to kill.

I never, ever remember hearing about this kind of crime when I was a child. I remember seeing imagery of Viet Nam on the news, every night, but I can’t remember any reports of something as horrific as this.

I remember when the People’s Temple episode happened, and I couldn’t wrap my head around that, and I was already an adult, by that time.



I’m not watching it. I can’t. It’s awful. I saw it come across my newsfeed early this afternoon and have heard it on the radio, but I refuse to watch TV. I was nearly in tears in my car. If he wanted to kill his mom and dad and himself, that is bad enough, but why the innocent children? No reason for that whatsoever.

No, it was not the other brother found dead. The brother is in custody. I believe it was the father. He killed his mother (the school teacher) and his father and his girlfriend is also missing!

Now it looks like it’s Adam who is the killer and he’s autistic.
He shot his mother in the home, then went to kill her kindergarten class. The father is in contact with the FBI and the brother is talking with police. Not sure what is happening with the gf.


What??? I am not watching TV so I am not up on what’s going on for sure.

So Adam is Ryan’s brother? Where is Ryan? I thought the mom was teaching in the classroom? I thought the father was dead? Confused.

I think Ryan and Adam lived with their mom. Ryan went to work. Adam shot the mom and went to kill the babies.
Dad lives elsewhere.


Wow. What time did it happen? Does anyone know why the mom wasn’t in her classroom? He must have had a jealousy towards those children.

He shot her before she went to work.

All spaths hate their mothers and they envy children.



They do hate their mothers. I didn’t realize so much about the children, but I do now. He obviously was jealous of those children. All those innocent lives.

I was just talking to my best friend and I said there are going to end up being suicides after this. There is going to be a parent out there of one of these children who just isn’t going to be able to handle this. We never know what is going on in people’s live and for something this horrible to happen on top of everything else…to have your child taken away like that…I am just sure someone is not going to be able to deal with it.

The Australian radio show hoax was an example of this. That woman most likely had some other major issues going on and that was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

This world is out of control. Jesus is coming soon…I can only hope.

Ox Drover

The news hhas been wrong on so much stuff, but I saw a kid who said that someone in HANDCUFFS was marched out of the school and he saw it, so I assumed from all that was being said that there were two brothers in on it and one not in on it. It also reported the mother was a teacher, a teacher’s aid, a volunteer, did not work at the school all in the same 5 minutes. Also reported the father dead at home…so still not sure what it is all about.

May not know for days what it is all about. One report said the mother was very RIGID…so blame the mother…not sure of anything at this point except a bunch of kids are dead and now they will blame guns.

How about that man that STABBED 20+ school kids to death…should we ban knives?

The woman who hanged herself was from a culture where SHAME is a big time thing and she felt I think she had let her job down, let her hospital down…and yea she probably had some issues but I think that radio show pushed her over the brink. I wish those folks would be canned and banned from ever working in radio again.



Yep, I had thought the exact same thing about the woman in London. She was Indian and they are very proud people.

It’s an example of never knowing what our actions are going to do to a person. Just like spath…even though I know he was only playing games with me and didn’t care about me, he is so self absorbed and narcissistic, he NEVER thought about what was going to happen to me…he didn’t think that he would destroy my life, but he did. I get that he may have WANTED to destroy me, but when I REALLY think about it, I don’t think he thought that far ahead about it…it was ALL about him and only him. He was only doing what he had to do to get what he wanted not thinking for a second about how it MIGHT affect ME!

These things have a domino effect and people really need to start thinking before they act. But we are a bunch of flawed humans who can’t seem to do that so…

Ox Drover

Louise, I agree with you. Some Ps seem to WANT to hurt the victim and others don’t see or care that it will hurt their victim…they only think about what they want in the moment.

The continuum of psychopathic traits runs from just doesn’t care to total malice aforethought…different ones are on different levels but the bottom line is it is ALL ABOUT THEM.

I have dealt with several different levels of psychopaths and several who are like my son Patrick are PURE EVIL and are out to hurt the victim, ENJOY hurting the victim…and some that are just out for what they want and don’t care that someone is hurt.

All of them are selfish…and all of us are selfish to some extent as well, but bottom line is that some of us have some remorse for the things we do that hurt others…and “they” don’t have remorse or conscience.



Very true. There is definitely a continuum. All are selfish that is for certain. Thanks for your support and input!

Oxy and Louise,
I think that the continuum isn’t just in the group but also in the individual. By that, I mean that sometimes a selfish person can be uncaring and at other times they become malicious. So they can move along that continuum depending on circumstances in their lives at the time. For example, blood sugar changes or stresses in their lives.

I imagine that this kid Adam, was profoundly affected by his parents’ divorce. Someone that narcissistic takes everything personally and is bound to blame his mother.


Everyone is saying the CT shooter ‘had obvious problems’…
‘obvious mental/personality disorder’ difficulties…

Kind of like “IT” – just bounces off walls…
ALL the time; flails his arms and shouts and hollars…
pissed off at the drop of a hat…instantly sweet..yikes…

MY POINT is this: “IF” people display these kinds of
traits, WHY is not something done MORE to intercede?
BEFORE they murder someone? OBVIOUSLY they can’t
help themselves, so, someone MUST do it for them.

I told PPATH once: “You must learn to control yourself
OR someone is going to control YOU.” Seems to me, if
we just followed the laws on the books, we would be okay
but I DO believe we should have guards in our schools.
DEFINITELY. Our children are our most precious resource.

I have been sobbing all afternoon.
For some reason, I can’t stop.

There is no excuse for this whatsoever.
I tried to get help with “IT” and was blown off…

God help us all.
The only thing we CAN do is protect ourselves and
our families the best we possibly can. No wonder
I am agoraphobic…with this kind of stuff going on,
I am really starting to understand myself…

Maybe my agoraphobia is WARRANTED…
I pray for the children we lost and the innocence
of childhood that has been stolen…I pray for all
those parents, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles,
grandparents, that lost a child today…

May this horrid tragedy give us the strength to
make the necessary changes so that this will NEVER
happen again.

They are going to miss Christmas…..


Dupey..I think the world is sobbing with you. What do we do? What can we do? I drive past the high school sometime’s, I see all kind’s of creepy kid’s in their black gothic attire, noses peirced, huge rings in their ears, tattoed like a colouring book, faces buried in their Iphones with a dazed angry look …i cant watch or listen to this anymore… will happen again and’s the world that is mentally ill…

kim frederick

I just saw a blip on the news, as i was drying off from my shower, getting ready for work yesterday…..kind of brushed it off….still don’t know the whole story…..what is the psychology behind this? So very sad.


One thing we can all do…..(or continue to do) is speak up. Not let the politicaly correct ‘thing’ get in our way of what is right.
We can continue to educate others and point them in the direction of learning about disordered persons.
And we see the media reporting more on Psychopaths/sociopaths when things like this occur.

It is here….it is in our world…..and it’s only going to get worse because we have allowed ourselves to be silenced and we’ve ‘taught’ people ‘how’ to treat us as a society.
There are NO consequences for bad behaviors.
There is no money to keep criminals in jail.
Hence, the non law abiders are not afraid of ‘what’ will happen, like the rest of us are.

If we break it down to our own experiences calling BS on someone…..and we get chastized and silenced. We are taught to accept and most ‘go away’ and shut up.
We can’t let this happen.
We’ve got to continue to have our voices.

We must stop enabeling bad behaviors……as a society.
Only then……will things start to change.

We all have a voice….and we can use it. If ‘collectively’ you see bad behaviors, talk about it, report it, keep notes and keep watch on the person.

I also believe that if more people were armed up……the criminals would think twice about doing the gun crimes.
This is why home invasions have decreased….the morons don’t want to crash into a home where someone ‘may’ be armed and THEY get shot!
They look for ‘easy bait’. And THEY are the ones making the judgements on ‘easy’.

Being armed won’t stop someone from shooting up a theatre or a school or casino etc…..but it sure could slow em down if more people pulled out thier guns and ended it before more damage was done to innocents.


EinBrock wrote:
We must stop enabeling bad behaviors—as a society.
Only then—will things start to change.”

Enabling – as in not participating in the process. Staying home – not voting – avoiding town meetings – letting the spath politicians lie and cheat and steal and not be held accountable.


Dupey, I had to turn off the news because I couldn’t stop crying. It’s a pain and horror that I can’t even being to imagine.

Erin Brock, yes, yes, yes. It’s about time for people to start screaming from rooftops for Legal Reform, accountability, and severe consequences. This shooter didn’t wake up, yesterday morning, and suddenly make a decision that shooting his parents, innocent people, and then himself would be preferable to going to work or college classes. This is something that had been escalating for a long, long time and there were probably VERY clear indications that this young man was disturbed, at the very least, and disordered, most likely.

Fixerupper, precisely. Enabling is the societal equivalent of turning the other cheek – which is a gross misinterpretation to mean, “It’s not my business, so I’m not going to get involved.”

Labeling is another excuse. “She’s been diagnosed ADHD, so we’re going to medicate her, give her an easy IEP, and shove her through the educational hoops to graduation.” Bullsh*t. If there were a poster child for adult ADHD, I would be it. I had to learn how to focus because there were certain expectations set forth for me. And, I thank GOD that Ritalin wasn’t the “in-thing” for people like me when I was a child!

What a horrible tragedy, and the news is beginning to broadcast interviews with survivors and talk about how these teachers sacrificed their lives to protect their students. I’m so very, very sick for these people – they will need YEARS of help to heal from this vicious massacre.

Brightest blessings

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