By | December 7, 2012 62 Comments

Expectations and the half-billion dollar lotto

By Joyce Alexander, RNP (retired)

I don’t normally by lotto tickets because the odds of winning are so powerfully against winning. Yes, I know “someone eventually wins,” and “if you don’t buy a ticket you don’t have any chance of winning.”

When the payout on the recent Powerball got so high though—a half-billion dollars—like lots of folks I decided “why not?” I bought a $3 ticket and let the computer pick the numbers for me.

The odds of being attacked by a shark are 1 in 11,000. The odds of being the lotto winner are about 175 million to one.

On the way home, my son and I fantasized about what we would do if we won the half-billion dollar payout. We decided we would take it in one lump sum rather than a yearly payout. Two days later, when we had the drawing on television, we got out our ticket and compared the numbers to the Powerball numbers, and of course, we did not win! We were mildly disappointed, but we were not crushed by losing. We expected to lose. The odds against us were just too high, so that we didn’t expect to win.

Expectations for my son

I think many times in life our expectations are what cause us problems. Expectations, versus reality not measuring up to the expectations, cause us grief many, many times. I can think of several times when my expectations were very high for something to happen, and when it did not happen, I was crushed, because I expected it to happen.

Back when my son Patrick first started his criminal career, I could “see down the road,” even without the benefit of a crystal ball, that if he did not stop the way he was headed, he would wind up with a criminal conviction. That would totally demolish my expectations for him of a college education and a successful professional career. From the time Patrick was a little kid in all the gifted and talented classes at school, I expected that he would be a “big success” in life. His IQ was in the top half of the 99th percentile. My little darling was a genius and could have done anything he wanted to successfully.

As I saw my expectations for his life slipping away, I still held on to what I now call “malignant hope:” The hope that somehow, some way, I could find just the right words to say to him, to get him to “see the light” and to “change” his behavior. I couldn’t let go of my own expectations for his success.

Obviously he did not share my expectations, and in fact, fought tooth and nail against anything I wanted him to do ”¦ study in school, quit stealing, quit running the streets at night.

Job expectations

Other times I have had other expectations that did not come to pass. I had a job that I dearly loved and would never have voluntarily quit. But it was down sized to part time and that forced me to quit in order to obtain health benefits for both myself and my husband with another job. I was devastated because I had expected that I would stay at that job until I retired at 65 or 66.

As it turned out, though, it was a godsend, because shortly after I left the job I loved and took a “weekend option” job that I really didn’t like, but it was only two days a week (Saturday and Sunday) and full benefits, my beloved stepfather was diagnosed with cancer. My part-time job allowed me to be with him throughout his treatments and his subsequent death 18 months later. That was time I was able to spend with him, and ended up being some of the best months that he and I spent together. Quality time. I am grateful.

I also lost my husband about a year after I took the weekend option job, and so I was able to spend more time with him before his death as well. For that I am grateful. At the time I lost the job though, when my expectations of being at that job I loved were quashed, I was devastated. Before long I was actually glad that my expectations were not met.

Expectations and pain

As for my expectations that my son Patrick attend college and become successful at whatever job or career he chose, I finally realized that he had been successful at the career path he had chosen. Not the path I would have chosen for him, but the one he chose for himself.

I don’t consider a criminal who gets caught a high percentage of the time and goes to prison a “successful” career. But for some reason that I am unable to fathom, Patrick considers himself a success. I guess if I could have a bumper sticker it would say, “My son is an honor student in the Texas Department of Criminal Justice.”

When we expect someone else to change to meet our desires, when we expect them to quit doing what they are doing that hurts us, themselves or others, our expectations are what cause us pain. We must learn to quit expecting things to happen that are not going to happen. It doesn’t matter if it is winning a lotto drawing against all odds, or if it is that the person we love will “see the light” and quit behaving in a dysfunctional manner. We must accept reality, and expect what is likely to happen.

I used to have a sign in my office; I wish I still had it. It said, “I feel so much better since I gave up hope.” I didn’t know at the time just how right that sign was.

Since I gave up hope that my son would change, I no longer have unmet expectations. I no longer hold on to that malignant, cancerous hope that ate at my every thought during every waking hour. I accept the fact that he is not going to change.

I may buy another lotto ticket some time, but I won’t expect to win. If I lose, I will not be crushed by the losing because I am going to keep my expectations real.

Comment on this article

Please Login to comment
Notify of


A very good article. Every once in a while, I buy lotto tickets, just for the fun of it. I think that you should make signs saying, “I feel so much better since I gave up hope,” and sell them, knowing that I could hang such a sign in my house. It’s true, when we give up hope (letting go of an expectation) about something, it really frees us up (which is so helpful).

Spaths know all about dashing our hopes and expectations.

My exspath made it his mission to make sure that none of my expectations would pan out. Anything that I did NOT expect, is what I actually got.

The spaths will dangle a carrot and then snatch it away at the last moment. Con artists will promise results that never pan out.

The element of surprise is about using expectations against the victim. I know 2 spaths who liked to sneak up and scare me. So even when I was not expecting anything at all, they could use my lack of expectation against me. In fact, that’s one of the tricks they use: “Look what I got you. I’ll bet you weren’t expecting this!” Then they take it away.

I don’t think giving up hope is the answer. I think being committed to seeing the truth, will set us free.

Ox Drover

Actually Skylar, the “hope” I gave up was the FALSE “hope” that they would change…so that **is** SEEING THE TRUTH, you and I are saying the same thing, just different words.


I just wanted to write a bit. I have not been back here for maybe 2 years. I forgot how great this site was. I survived a 15 year relationship with a spath. He actually left me for someone else leaving me very curious what he would gain from her.He is totally self centered and a real opportunist.
Lovefraud helped me get on with life “NO CONTACT”. That was key to my recovery.I felt finally like my old self again.I first noticed I was singing,acting silly, and yes even smiling again. This man I married ,divoriced then lived with had such a stronghold on me even thou I knew he was pure evil. In a way since we had 2 kids I felt keeping him close was safer than not knowing where he was or what he was doing. Well it’s been three years and he married the woman he was cheating on me with while he was begging me to remarry him. He was caught cheating on me so he was free to move in with her. I felt blessed he had her to move in with and it kept him from bothering me. Now I found out his new wife is dieing of cancer,mind you I saw her 3 years ago she was a 250 plus pound healthy looking girl (45 yrs old). At the end of our time together I never would eat or drink anything he fixed me I was worried he would poison me. I know she had a great job working for a law firm, so I am sure she will have plenty to leave her now greiving husband. But I am sick thinking he could be getting away with murder.In three years with this girl he will have everyone fooled how great he is . No one would believe me, I looked like the crazy one when he first left. If you live with a spath long enough they will change who you are. But now I am back and I just wanted to put it in writting somewhere what I am thinking. I feel crazy even thinking these things. But in the safety of people who survived living with a spath I feel I can share my feelings. I pray I am wrong and I pray I never have to use this blog as referense to what I really think my ex is capable of. Thank you Lovefraud

Ox Drover

Dear SusanK,

Welcome back….I don’t think you are crazy for thinking he would poison her…there are several people here who firmly believe that their x tried to poison them.

I would suggest that at her death you write a letter to the police immediately, saying that you think this may have been murder by poison (you don’t have to sign it) and maybe they will investigate. Or maybe she just does have cancer, but that way you will give the cops a heads up, and if she per chance was poisoned maybe he will be caught but no one will know you did it.

Keep on reading and learning, SusanK….there is a lot to absorb, first about them and then about ourselves. God bless.


Thank you Ox, I really needed confirmation that I should not stay totally silent

Susan, I would not wait for her death. If you think AT ALL that she may be poisoned, make an anonymous call to the hospital where she is being treated or write an anonymous note. You don’t have to say that she WAS being poisoned, but simply that it would behoove them to consider that as a possible factor and to not overlook that possibility.

I know you want nothing to do with him or his family, so keep it anonymous. Use a “throw away” phone. This is life or death and I think it’s important enough to do something.

I know what you meant, regarding false hope or, as you have called it before, “malignant hope”.

I think this is one of the more important articles on this site. Expectations are exactly what a spath works with when he is conning. Pulling the rug out from under the unsuspecting victim is the only kind of joke they understand.

Ox Drover

Sky, I think your advice to notify her medical care providers NOW is a good idea…and I agree, in no way that it can be traced back to Susan….

Yea, they do like to raise our expectations that all we have to do is to try a little harder and we will get what we want and expect from them…no matter what that “expectation is” they hold it out in front of us like a carrot on a stick in front of a donkey to make us keep on pulling, reaching for that carrot (expectation) well I am done expecting things from others. If others give me things (love, care, whatever) it is fine, but I am not going to COUNT on anything over which I have no control.


Joyce, thank you SO much for the article. Expectations. What a wonderful topic to discuss, and I love the sign that you posted in your office!

Expectations can be “reasonable,” or completely false. Hope can be reasonable, or completely false. I’m trying to find that place in the middle of the curve.

SusanK, welcome back and I’m grateful for your recovery. I’m with Skylar – if you have ANY concern, an anonymous call may have an impact.

Brightest blessings

Ox Drover

Truthy, you are entirely welcome. Glad you enjoyed it. I too am trying to find that “middle ground” and it isn’t an easy place to find, but I will keep working on it. Keep my expectations REAL and ones over which I have a reasonable amount of control.

kim frederick

In AA they say, “our level of serenity is inversely proportional to our level of expectation.” Which leads me to the serenty prayer:
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the diffence.
Which, to us, here at LF. could be simplified by pointing, first, at “them”, secondly, at “us”, and thirdly, to a higher-power.
In a way, having expectations, is a way of playing God. It is a way of saying I know best, or I am the one who should decide what will be.
EGO….Easing God Out.
Better to let go and let God.

Ox Drover

Thanks for adding that serenity prayer, Kim, because it is right on. We can only have any control over the things we can control, the rest is up to the Universe/God (whatever you believe) or under the control of someone or something else.

There ARE things we can change…mostly about ourselves….and we have to do those things….because we waste a lot of time and energy trying to change the things we can’t, and emotional energy on the expectations that we can change them.

Hope you and pinky doodle are having a good weekend! (((hugs)))

kim frederick

Yes, Oxy, Pinky and I are doing fine….we are trudging the path to happy destiny….and, I do mean, trudging.
It is cold and dreary, here, and work is drudgery, but, I try to maintain an attitude of gratitude. I have a warm house, food to eat, clean water, and my sweet, soft, warm, fur-person to love.
Talked to my daughter a little while ago, and she triggered my envy. I am only now becoming aware of it. She had to make sure I knew of all the holiday parties she had attended, all the nights out with friends, her tickets to the pro foot-ball game, the skiing trip to Colorado her family will take after Christmas, all the while telling me that she’s just not into it this year….not a word about my plans for Christmas…..and On Thanksgiving I worked all day. I don’t know…..


Yay, Kim…I love your post at 1:05PM! 🙂


Good article Oxy! Thanks for this.
I have reminded myself throught the previous years, to keep the expectations low. Expect only things from myself……and even then I disappoint myself too!
If we learn to ‘go with the flow’……and take what happens it works better for me at least.
The emotional diappointments with my family have been the last of the litter in the case of spathville. I don’t have any expectations now in regards to them, I don’t bother with them…..ANY of them.

On another note…..I let go of my expectations for my eldest Jr several years ago…..many of you know this was a hard thing for me to do. WELL……that was the best thing I coulda ever done!!! He’s made so much progress on his own, he’s finding his way!
I sooooo expected him to graduate from HS on time….and it crushed me he didn’t.
He was so capable…..but too mindfarked emotionally from spath dealings to pull it off.
IT was MY expectation for HIM…..that crushed me!

Guess what he completed this week! And all on his own.
He got his diploma!!!!!
HE realized it was holding him back, HE enrolled in the last few classes…..HE CHOSE THIS and HE completed it. Never discussed it with me until he had a question.
I remained calm and reminded myself NOT to have ANY expectations for the outcome.
I told him, if he wants something bad enough……HE will find a way to complete it. (Whatever in life that applies to).
LIFE is up to HIM…..he’s an adult.
Make it what you want my love and be happy!!!!!

I see him moving forward….s.omething that I never saw a few years ago. I saw stagnant, victim, depression, anger etc……
I am ONE PLEASED and PROUD MAMMA…..for him!

Do I expect it to continue…..NO…..I HOPE it does.
Hope and expectations can be two different thoughts.

Yay Erin!
congratulations to Jr.

Not only spaths but a lot of manipulative people will use our hopes and expectations against us.

A friend of mine has an overweight husband and she tells me she wishes he would exercise and lose weight. From what I know of him, he sabotages himself because he knows that it bothers her.

He’s not a spath AFAIK.

Some kids will sabotage themselves just to make their parents feel bad.

People do the strangest things and they don’t necessarily have to be spaths, I guess.

Ox Drover

Erin I understand what you are saying about your oldest Junior, and it is difficult to sit by and watch a SMART kid fark off school and not graduate etc. WE know it will hold them back in life. WE know this and we KNOW that…and if we could just find a way to get that knowledge into their heads….duh!!!!!!

Sometimes it works out, sometimes not. Like with my oldest son….I EXPECTED he would keep his agreement he made with me about returning here to live and keep his word. He had never before kept the SAME agreement to live here (as an adult) so why I expected he would THIS tiime I’m not sure. Maybe because after his brother’s minion tried to kill him and he said “Mom, you’re a prophet” that MAYYYYYY-BE he had at last learned a lesson, BUT if he did, it didn’t last too long because he chose to LIE TO ME again….and that was the end. It broke my heart because of MY EXPECTATIONS of son C.

Sure I could have had some HOPE for him but not EXPECTATIONS because when I had the expectations that he would keep his word and he broke it I was CRUSHED.

I’m not sure what the difference in HOPE and EXPECTATIONS are but I guess hope is where you want it, but aren’t sure you will get it, but with expectations you are SURE you are gonna get it. So if you hope something and it doesn’t come true you’re still ok, but if you EXPECT something and it doesn’t materialize then you are crushed.

I am really glad that your oldest kiddo is doing well and making progress on his own. In the end we can only save ourselves and as much as we love them our kids have to save themselves as well. Good to hear from you. I’ve been missing your sage advice here lately. (((hugs)))


Thank you Skylar and Oxy, I am very proud of his progress!

I think that, in our society, we have an entitlement issue. We feel entitled to expectations.

We expect others to ‘play’ along with our ‘roles’ that we have developed for ourselves.
When others do not…….we are ‘let down’.


Erin, that’s wonderful………and, I am cogitating about “expectations,” this evening.

Wonderful, wonderful……

Brightest blessings


Thats good news EB.




I would come at it a little different. Even though saying the same thing. Expectation is neutral it’s self. It’s what we expect that defines our expectation. When we change what we expect it redefines our expectation and changes our reality to the situation.

Hope as used most often to day is more of I wish. In the bible it is with great expectation. But just below faith which is we believe some thing is true or will happen that we do not see in the physical world yet.



I would add that trust works the same way. We trust but it’s what we trust them to do or not do that defines the word trust.

I trust your truthful. I trust you’ll lie.


kim frederick

Well…….I have a hard time with this cognitive therapy approach, though, I realize it probably works, and of course, that’s a good thing, right? After all, all we want is to stop suffering, right?
First of all, why should I try to manipulate myself out of feeling the way I do? Why am I somehow to blame because I feel angry, hurt, confused, betrayed, abandoned…oh, I see, it’s all in my head….I’m doing this to myself, oh, my bad….here, let me re-think this…..ok, now I’ve got it, everything’s fine….just fine….Now that I put a new spin on it, I don’t feel anything, yep, it was all my fault, I just thought myself into being hurt. Gotcha.
I understand that we can wallow, and I understand that our thoughts can create our reality, but, I am a firm believer in accepting, and experiencing our emotions, especially if we have been denying them for a very long time. I’m done with self-blame.
Reality is plastic, yeah, and so are spaths and abusive ass-holes who want you to suck up the blame.

kim frederick

Oh, and FINE, as in, I’m fine, to me translates to: Fucked up, Insecure, Neurotic, and Ego-centric. Anytime I say I’m fine, I’m probably lying.

Ox Drover


In the story in the Bible about Joseph, who was sold into slavery by his brothers whose origiinal intent had been to kill him, we see both forgiveness and judging HOW much to trust someone who as “done you wrong in the past.”

Joseph as he matured and spent time in prison unjustly accused of trying to rape his owner’s wife (I don’t think anyone actually believed her because if they truly had believed her I think he would have been put to death instead of put inn prison) but in any case, during his time in prison, Joseph came to see that he had no real control over his life, that GOD was the one in control and then when he rose up to be second only to the king, he realized that GOOD had come out of him being shipped off to Egypt, because of his planning due to te dreams that the king had had, there was food in plenty during the 7 dry years.

So Joseph had FORGIVEN his brothers what they did to him, but when they unexpectedly showed up, he did NOT immediately let them know who he was it had been 20-30 years since he had seen them and though HE HIMSELF had changed from an obnoxious, narcissistic spoiled brat of a teenager that he had been when they sold him, hhe wanted to know what kind of men THEY had become during that time. Were they STILL the kind of men who would sell off a blood relative they didn’t like, and CRUSH the spirit of their father thinking the boy dead, and torn to shreds by a lion or some wild beast? Or had they repented of what they had done?

Since Joseph ad ABSOLUTE power in that country in those days he TESTED the brothers by accusing them falsely of stealing….and making them bring the youngest brother with them when they came for grain again. Then he put the youngest brother into prison falsely accused of stealing….to see what the brothers would do. Would they sacrifice themselves to save their father from losing his only other son from Joseph and Benjamin’s dead mother? What kind of men were his brothers now?

I had read the story of Joseph testing his brothers many times and didn’t understand that he wasn’t just “BEING MEAN’ to them, there was a BIG PURPOSE in what he did to them. It let him know what kind of men his brothers were UNDER DURESS.

If he had just said to them when e first saw them “Hi, I’m your brother Joseph” he would not have known for sure what kind of men they were as they would have ACTED glad to see him. This way Joseph KNEW they would sacrifice themselves to save their father grief. BIG DIFFERENCE. They were SORRY for what they had done in the past.

Knowing Who to TRUST and HOW MUCH to trust someone depends on a lot of things. People may SAY they are “sorry” for what they did to us in the past, and we may WANT to believe that, but we must be sure that people EARN our trust, and especially if they have shown themselves to be capable of deceit or abuse in the past.

Ox Drover

Kimmie, we posted over each other.

I don’t think anyone is saying that we need to DENY our feelings, feelings are REAL, but at the same time, we can CHOOSE to focus on the “angry” or “bitter” feelings and if we do choose to focus on those we will not be able to focus on the “happy” feelings.

So what we CHOOSE to focus on is what we tend to feel more.

Sure, I could choose to focus entirely on the feelings of anger that I have toward my egg donor for financing Patrick’s parole attorney and for sending money to the man who tried to have me killed. In fact just writing this about her makes my anger flare, but I choose NOT to focus on this, but to ACCEPT that what IS, IS WHAT IS, and focus on something else.

I find that counting my blessings each day, just making a list of the things I HAVE that are what I need, starting with clean water to drink, a roof over my head, a son that loves me and is here for me and has my back, more than enough to eat, medical care, being mentally alert and competent…even though her hips are going to go bad pretty soon, I do have a dog that will protect me with her life right NOW, and so on, THe list of my blessings is LONG and the more I concentrate on that list of blessings rather than on the anger, the better I feel.

So, yea, there are some negative things in my world…Patrick’s up coming parole, the fear that he may send another of his “friends” to off me….those things are there in the back of my mind, I FEEL them but I don’t CONCENTRATE on them if that makes sense.


Kim, I don’t believe (IMHO) that it is “wrong” or somehow dysfunctional to deny feelings of anger, rage, fury, fear, or any other emotion that could be construed as “negative.”

I also don’t believe that supressing those true and “normal” feelings are healthy. They are REAL feelings, just because they are. Acknowledging those feelings, ranting about them, venting, and purging myself of those feelings allows me to excise that venom, squeeze it out, and sit back after all is said and done, and sort it out as to how I can avoid experiencing those feelings, again, especially if they were caused by the actions and choices of someone else.

I’ve typed this numerous times, but it’s true: healing and recovery is no easy task. It isn’t pleasant, for the most part, because the TRUE healing begins when the focus turns towards myself. Once I get all of that anger out of my system, it’s easier to breathe and observe my own actions and choices – I’m not focusing on HATING that rat-bastid so much.

Also, I think what causes people to believe that feeling anger and other “negative” emotions is “bad” is that, somewhere along the way, we were taught that our emotions weren’t important or valid. So, instead of learning how to process my anger in a healthy, productive way, I learned how to turn that anger inwards and choke it back. And, where I am personally concerned, this is absolutely NOT healthy. If I don’t get that anger OUT of my system, I go around with a simmering fury that will boil over.


Brightest blessings

One day the spath made me cry. It was one of the worst fights we’d had and I don’t remember why we were fighting. I was crumpled on the floor in despair wishing I was dead, while he sat stoically. I couldn’t believe that I would wish for death. It seemed so unlike me and I realized that only the spath had ever made me feel that way. Then I remembered that his ex-gf had committed suicide and I realized that it was HIM making me feel this way.

Before this realization, I thought it was me. I thought there was something wrong with me and my ability to be happy.

This new perception changed everything. I didn’t want to die anymore, because I knew there was nothing wrong with me, it was him.

Of course, years later, when I remembered back to that day, I also remembered that there was someone else who had made me wish I was dead: my parents.

But luckily, on that day, I didn’t remember that.

Spaths manipulate our perceptions. My spath knew exactly how to make me feel like my life was worthless and I almost fell for it. I was saved by recognizing that HE was pulling those strings.

This is also the reason why spaths are all paranoid. They know that they manipulate other people’s realities and they assume that everyone is trying to do that to them. In fact, they are SURE of it. They are constantly trying to defend against being fooled.

Even still, I would say they are the easiest people to fool. Ironic.

kim frederick

Truthy, and Ox, I know. I do, I’m just in a negitive space at the moment….on a rant.
I spent so many years trying to ward off a crisis of awareness…..of the truth, by denying and just going about my business, that when I couldn’t deny my reality anymore, my whole universe, along with all my beliefs, cherished ideals, self-concept, and everything else, caved in.
It became clear to me, then, that it wasn’t all in my head. That I wasn’t the magical creature I thought I was, who could contol my universe by denying reality, and ignoring my feelings.
I had been taught from day one not to feel.
There are three rules that children from alcoholic families live by:
1. Don’t talk.
2. Don’t trust.
3. Don’t feel.
My spathic X took these three commandments to new heights, and I, being the little trooper that I am, fell right in.
He went so far as to tell me, he should take me out to the back-yard and shoot me, to put me out of my misery. Ahhhh, yes, I was punished for feeling bad. I was punished for being confused. I was punished for being dissappointed. I was punished for not worshipping him like God.
I was seduced. Totally. He promised me so much, and delivered nothing but heart-ache. Oh, the lovely love-bomb. I was wrong. My dear Mother was wrong. She told me to marry someone who loved me more than I loved him. I loved my spath, but, truley, I chose him, because I believed he LOVED me. Sucks. Even a little narcissistic, isn’t it? Well, I learned my lesson.
And what a repetition it was. I was alone in a family by myself, and lying about it. The way I always was.
Familiar, and yet not right.
Anyway, the holidays are so very triggering.
X-spath was at the height of devalue and disgard with me and idealization of the girl at Christmas….he was agonizing over whether to leave me, or leave her,,,he absolutely HAD to chose, as he (we?) were being moved out of state. Military.
On Christmas Day, he walked out the door and spent the rest of the day with her.
On January 8th we left town, and moved to Florida. I had a wobbly idea of what had happened.
In May, shit hit the fan and reality dawned. Crazy.

kim frederick

This is the most devistating truth I know: the people I have most loved encouraged my dependancy on them, then left me alone with my own devises. Because of my dependancy, they felt contempt, and felt entitled to abuse me, knowing I believed I had no alternative…that was a belief they implanted in me, and, because I believed I had No choice, I began to HOLD MYSELF in contempt. My self respect was shattered. I needed them to the point of self abandonment. Now, that hurts.



I was never aware of the 3 Rules of ACOA, but I’ve been practicing the exact antithesis of those rules for my entire life. I DID talk. I DID trust. And, I DID feel. All to my own detriment, of course.

You’re in a tough patch, right now, and it’s “okay.” Whether you “feel” it, or not, you’re one smart cookie and absolutely important in this vast Universe. This is just temporary, sweetie.

Hugs and hugs and hugs


Kim, and what’s wrong with a good rant?!?!?! This is the place FOR a good rant!!!!!!!

kim frederick

Thanks, Truthy. It’s good to be heard.
I have to pull myself together and be off to work. Surely not feeling it, today.



Sorry you are feeling so badly. 🙁 I am here. Try to have a good day at work.



I know. I think all this talk about this is triggering. Even though I do get the concept (I really do!), I have said the same things on here:

– I have heard people say in the past that someone can’t MAKE me mad; I make MYSELF mad by the way I react. Really? True or not??

– I think it’s too hard to consciously all the time be questioning my feelings. We all know feelings are OUR feelings no matter what. We feel what we feel whether it be real or not. But I guess it’s been said on here that our feelings are “real.”

– I still think it makes a person stuff down their feelings (which is not good)

– I also still think it’s somewhat like being a robot

Edit: So I get it, I just don’t know if I want to practice it. 🙂

Oh, another thing I forgot…I realize that the Tapping technique goes along with all Spoon was saying, but I just don’t feel comfortable doing that. I think it’s awkward. Could it help me? Probably so, but if I feel awkward doing it, I don’t know how helpful it can be.


Louise, YES! While the words might be posted about what we’re doing, it’s frustrating for me, as well. I know what I”m doing and where it comes from. What is more helpful to me than any link or quote is to read specific techniques that people actually use, how they employ that technique, and so forth.

Yes, indeed, the psychspeak can be thorougly defeating because I am NOT a member of that profession. I don’t need the psychspeak. I need layman’s terms and techniques. LOL!!!

I imagine that there will come a time when I’m better able to manage my reactions so that I’m far more calm and serene. But, I’m not able to be a robot, nor would I want to be one. Robots don’t have a conscience or remorse, either! However, they don’t have personal agenda. So….yeah…..yeah…..

Brightest blessings and non-animatronic hugs!

Ox Drover

Kimmie, sweetie, I hear you! Ditto….but you know I am also “hearing” that you are still beating yourself up over your choice to marry him etc.

No one knows better than I do, Kim what great people we are at SELF FLAGELLATION. I am an expert at it. Just like those people in India that beat themselves across the back with knives on chains in self punishment for not being perfect. Well, I was expected to be PERFECT and that included not being important, not having feelings that mattered, of course keeping the family secrets, and when I was abused at school for months until the abuser broke my jaw with a coke bottle and there was no way of hiding the same of my abuse, and my teacher and my folks found out about it, but I was told the poor abuser kid came from a poor family of 22 kids and because she was abused at home that was why she abused me so we should be friends and I shouldn’t be angry at her.

MY feelings were never considered.

I think maybe this set me up, or maybe I was already set up before the abuse from the bully at school, and that was why I hid the abuse, felt ashamed of the abuse, not sure which came first, the chicken or the egg.

But Kim, we can stop beating ourselves up for allowing the abuser to continue to abuse us. We can quit the self flagellation. You have come a LONG WAY since we met here Kim. You are no longer DEPENDENT on anyone else for your roof, your food or for your feelings and your life. You don’t have to eat anyone else’s shait any more Kim. You have accomplished it and I remember when you were scared shiatless to go out into the world “alone” on your own, but YOU DID IT SISTER and I am so proud of you and PROUD FOR YOU. TOWANDA KIMMIME!!!!



Thank you! 🙂


Kim, when you get back home from work, tonight, I hope you check the LF boards. OxD is spot-on, and you’re just having a tough patch, girl. You’re an amazing and resourceful human being that is FULL of resolve and adamant.

So, you married a prick? Me, too. Right now, you’re just experiencing a stall on your Healing Path – no worries, sweetie! I have a couple of stalls each week! LOL! In a couple of days, you’re going to be back in gear and moving foward.

Louise, you’re welcome for whatever it is! 😀

Brightest blessings


OxD, yes – the “shame” runs deep, doesn’t it? My shame-core was so pronounced that it was nearly a pathology. I actually felt GUILTY for attacking a man that put my health and well-being into jeopardy and kept denying his activities. Once I found the email to his “Mistress,” written 3 days before I found his nasty bag, his activities were undeniable, on any level. And, I felt GUILTY for my reaction!

No, I never want to be that full of rage, again, for the rest of my life. And, guess what? I don’t ever HAVE to be on account of I’m not the same person I was a year ago. I don’t buy bullshit, I don’t accept free bullshit, and I carry a good supply of Bullshit Repellant on hand. Never, again.

Brightest blessings



So many women are afraid to do what you did…leave and go out on your own and make it. You are one of the bravest women I know! Truly! So hold your head up. It will be a better day tomorrow. HUGS.


To clarify about “Never, again,” I would like to say that I’m going to work hard at never being an easy target, again.

I’ve read many, many stories by seasoned and well-recovered LoveFraud readers and contributing authors of their continued brushes with spathy. Just because I’m working towards recovery will not make me immune to future contact with spaths. So, I’m working hard on developing a Zero Tolerance for bad behaviors, whether they’re spath, or not.

Brightest blessings



On Joseph: We forgive to clear out our hearts. But it doesn’t mean we get back into the pig pen with them. The one that has done wrong has to show contrition and earn our trust.

GOD can see in mans hearts. Us on the other hand can watch actions/results and compare that to their words. Actions speak louder then words.

All things work to the good to those that love the Lord.

And yes he is the only one that is in charge. Thing are less concrete then we would like to believe. We have the ablity to believe anything. Even things we know to be untrue, harmful to ourselves and harmful to others. But in believing it we act as if it is true.


Ox Drover

Truthy, that ZERO tolerance is where I am at as well. It doesn’t have to be spathy to be UNACCEPTABLE to me. I do not need or want anyone in my life who is irresponsible or dishonest. At the first sign of that, I’m gone.

Spoon, you are so right….forgiving does not mean restoring either a relationship or trust. I guess a person COULD regain my trust if they had betrayed me, but it would be a long and difficult road for me to ever trust someone again and like Joseph, I would have to SEE that they had repented and changed their way of thinking and acting.

The old saying “shiat on me once, shame on you, shiat on me twice, same on ME” is very true.

Jesus told us that we can tell what kind of tree a tree is by the fruit and if the fruit is rotten, the tree is rotten…not that even a good tree won’t have a few rotten apples in the crop, none of us are perfect, but the majority of the crop should be good, if it isn’t, then the tree is not one in which you want to trust.

There are times to give “second chances” and times to NOT give second chances, and we need to be wise enough to see the differences. That isn’t always easy.


OxD, that’s where I’m at with forgiveness, too. I was taught to “turn the other cheek” and ALWAYS forgive when someone asked for it – even when they didn’t ask for forgiveness, it was to be granted because it was expected and would save us from a fate worse than death.

With regard to forgiveness, i believe that it is strictly for my benefit to forgive, if I choose to do so. I don’t feel that I will ever forgive the exspath for his crimes and sins. No, none of us are perfect, and that’t not the point. Deliberately scamming someone and maliciously discarding them would warrant forgiveness IF the perpetrator were truly contrite and remorseful. However, the exspath’s own actions have clearly demonstrated that he is not contrite OR remorseful, on any level. And, what tops this off is that he has now aligned himself with a religious organization, recently. This is the most agregious actions of all because anyone who agrees with the teachings of this organization would step forward, take responsibility for their actions, and make amends.

So….yeah….I’m all about forgiving MYSELF for my shortcomings. My vulnerabilities and failures to maintain strong boundaries allowed for my exploitation. I didn’t deserve to be exploited, but I may not have had these experiences if I had been an emotionally healthy and secure human being.

Brightest blessings


”“ I have heard people say in the past that someone can’t MAKE me mad; I make MYSELF mad by the way I react. Really? True or not??


How this works is [I’ll use the “LOOK” that cause the person to feel “LESS THEN”] Someone looks at them with the “LOOK.” The brain in a blink of an eye compares this “LOOK” with what is on file. And when it gets a match it fires the emotional trigger which cause the person to FEEL the same feelings where the “LOOK” first became the “LOOK” when they decided it meant that they were “LESS THEN.” So this person is reliving EMOTIONALLY that moment when they decided this “LOOK” meant that they are “LESS THEN.” So now this person FEELS like the little kid whose parent made them believe that they where “LESS THEN.”

First problem with this is that when they where a kid they came to this erroneous belief that they where “LESS THEN.”
Second now they are automatically reacting to situations that have nothing to do with the events that created the trigger in the first place. The person who gives the “LOOK” may have eatten something bad, had a thought about something that they did like. Which has nothing what so ever to do with the person that now FEELS “LESS THEN.”

How can we stop this? Try and force others not to give the “LOOK?” Naw that would take too much energy and time. So we go to what we can control and can effect. The trigger – the memory of event where this happened and the meaning we gave it.


How did I do this? Cause this is something that I had a problem with. Well at first all I did was is jump all over the person. How dare they treat me that way. Had a guy say one time after I chewed him up one side and down the other – hey all I can think of is I just stepped wrong and got a shot of pain from a toe I stumped this morning. Guess I made a face because that is about when you started yelling at me. Any way next I started just walking away. Boss would give me that “LOOK” and I would leave get myself back under control and go back and say ok what did you want. First time I did this it took a lot of explaining. Then I tried not to react to it. A hit and miss. If I was in a good frame of mind I could pull it off. If not I would go right to chewing them out then stop and walkout. None of it worked. Had a problem with flash anger too.

So what changed. I learned a few things and came across the technique for blowing out the memory. I’ve posted it many times. Works every time.

So on the “LOOK” I went and had some one trigger it. Knew a person that I could piss off and she would always give that “LOOK.” I anchored it. Went to the truck and ran the technique on it. Left came back a couple of hours later and pissed her off again. She gave the “LOOK” No reaction. I grinned an apologized for pissing her off and left. I did know that I could find this feeling without someone triggering it just wanted to make sure I got it.

Did the same thing with the flash anger. Had to run the technique on 2 or 3 things to get rid of it.

Later had a few of the things I had killed start coming back. This was corrected when I learned that with a belief there is a vocal statement that goes with it that had to be dealt with. And that fixed that.

I did most – 95% to 99%- of the healing with the technique.

A lot a stuff I did back before I cleaned out all of that useless garbage found out was all backwards. They made me mad. They hurt my feelings. Look what they did to me. If things were wrong it was every bodies fault. When I got rid of the triggers and was no longer being controlled by them. I didn’t blow up at people but if pushed can still get mad. But it is a choice not a knee jerk reaction. People don’t hurt my feeling. If I haven’t done anything to cause this person to act this way then they are just being a jerk. Then I begin to understand that they were just reliving some emotional crap from their past. There are a few people in this world that can hurt my feelings. They have earned to be there.

As long as the trigger is there it will effect me.
I can’t control what others do.
We judge ourselves by our own action. And so do others judge themselves by their action.
Feelings come from me.
What others do has more to do with them then me.
I am not responsible for other peoples triggers. And no one is responsible for mine.
I define me. What others do defines them.


Note Truthy I do hope you forgive him. Not for him. But for you. The way I see it as long as they could effect me even from a memory then I still had to deal with their crap.



As Gomer Pyle said. Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me.



hmmm, I didnt know that was a Gomer quote.


All I can remember from Gomer is “Sha-Zaaaamm!” And, “Surprise!…Surprise!…Surprise!”


‘skylar’ wrote:

“Spaths manipulate our perceptions. My spath knew exactly how to make me feel like my life was worthless and I almost fell for it. I was saved by recognizing that HE was pulling those strings.

This is also the reason why spaths are all paranoid. They know that they manipulate other people’s realities and they assume that everyone is trying to do that to them. In fact, they are SURE of it. They are constantly trying to defend against being fooled.”

I was told by a therapist to watch for my gf to ‘project’ her bad behaviour onto me.

She regularly would accuse me of accusing her of cheating!

She asked me how many people I had killed.

She had her car taken apart to have it searched for ‘tracking devices’ that she thought I had planted.

She accused me of rigging her telephone so that I could eavesdrop.

Send this to a friend