Sociopathy is a disorder that doesn’t afflict a person as much as it does his/her family! Since the disorder is also partly genetic it afflicts the family for generations. This week I have heard many amazing and tragic stories and I would like to share a few of them with you. These stories are about the children of sociopaths.
I am working on a project to document symptoms of psychopathy in accused and convicted con artists. As part of this project I am interviewing the family members of con artists. That is how I became acquainted with the 17 year old daughter of a convicted con artist. She wrote me a nice note saying that if I wanted to know about her father, I should study conduct disorder (CD), because she discovered through her own reading that her father has that disorder. She wanted to know if I had heard of it.
This teenager did what many of you have done. She looked up symptoms of different mental disorders and found CD, she felt it described her father very well. CD is the diagnosis given to children who appear to be sociopaths. At 17, the girl figured out for herself that her father is a sociopath.
Even though this teenager is able to attach a label to her father’s disordered behavior, she is still coming to grips with what the diagnosis means. She is still trying to understand why and how from prison, her father was able to get a “girlfriend” to transfer money out of her mother’s bank account to his prison account so he could buy junk food at the prison store.
Another girl who grew up under the shadow of a sociopath is now nearly 30. She described very eloquently what it feels like to be confused about reality because your custodial parent lied to you every day about everything and alienated you from your mother. She is hoping for a way to heal and to feel she has a place in this world.
I also spoke to a grandma who is raising 3 boys in 3rd and 4th grade, her grandsons. She married a man many years ago who fathered two children with her before abandoning her. In spite of doing her best as a single mom, both of her children became sociopaths and were unable to parent. She is working very hard to provide for the three kids. Her task is made all the more difficult when the children visit with their sociopathic parents. She tried to keep visits limited to supervised visits, but was unsuccessful because the sociopaths “conned the court.” She believes one of the boys was just molested by his mother during unsupervised visitation. She can’t understand why the courts keep putting the children in harm’s way.
Tonight two students gave presentations in the University Child Development class I teach. The first student works for an agency that links female offenders with services to help them get stable rather than reoffend. She said that 75% of the women have young children and that many witnessed the criminal arrest of their mothers. Many also are abused when placed in the foster care system after mom goes to prison.
The second student told her own story. Her niece came to live with her many years ago at age 15 when she was orphaned due to her mother being killed in a car accident. Her niece had two children by two different men one year apart beginning at age 17. She has been very unstable with multiple arrests, is a sociopath and has been unable to care for the boys who are now 13 and 14. My student initially got custody of the youngest boy when he was small, but lost it to the child’s biologic father who is also a sociopath. She believes the father wanted his son because with the child in tow he had access to the homeless shelters for families. At the shelters there were plenty of women for him to pursue.
To make a long story short, my student got full custody of the boys when they were 7 and 8. Unfortunately much damage was already done as both children are emotionally disturbed. One boy has issues with violent behavior, animal cruelty and fire setting. He has been in residential placement for the last 2 years.
What point am I trying to make? Look at all the suffering and ruined potential sociopathic parents cause. On Friday 9/26/2008, 12 noon EST, Robin Hoffman author of I Take Thee, and survivor of a relationship with a sociopath, will be interviewing me on her radio show. We will speak about the needs of the children of sociopaths. To listen visit http://www.rcrn.info/ . You can also call in to ask a question or share your story 303 747-5121, show ID 226305.
ADDENDUMIf you didn’t hear the show you can still listen to it. It can be found in the archives 9/26 see http://www.realcoachingradio.com/node/24Thank you all for commenting and supporting each other. Perhaps what we need is a protective parent’s organization. I have collected literature about sociopaths as parents. There isn’t much. If you would like my file please feel free to write.
That sounds like a great idea. seeing as that it is a topic that definitely needs to be addressed more in general, but how long will this talk show go on for? There are so many people out there that do not know anything about them or what they are capable of. I think this topic could be talked about forever. This website is a prime example.
You need to get on Oprah or some other show that reaches MILLIONS in one day!
I guess a radio show in the middle of the day is at least a START! Of course there is “no fanatic like a convert” and everyone on this blog is definitely a CONVERT and we want to shout from the house-tops what the psychopaths are and what they do.
Sociologists are recognizing now that there are a GREAT MANY grandparents raising their grandchildren in our society today. I would be “willing to bet” that many of these children are the offspring of psychopaths. I know a woman in my community who has just taken in her GREAT granddaughter who is 3, a beautiful child, but her mother is a psychopath in prison and her father is a dangerous paranoid schizophrenic.
The woman raising the little girl is a bright woman, who grew up in a poverty situation, married a P very young, had P children, P grandchildren and now is trying to salvage this little girl who has more Ps in her family tree than I do. Fortunately the GGM is now married to a very bright, very caring man who is a few years younger than her (and since there has only been 16 + or – years between generations, is fairly young for a GGM herself.
Just the fact that the disorder has genetic components being recognized by “science” and “medicine” I think is a wonderful step forward. Keep spreading the word!
I just “flashed” on something. There are several species of BIRDS that lay their eggs in the nests of other birds. When their egg hatches among the babies of the other “foster” bird, they push the babies of the “foster” bird out of the nest and get all of the food.
This lazy but successful way of rearing their young reminds me of the psychopaths. They spread their seed, then abandon the seed to the normal parent to cope with. The “bad seed” pushes the normal chldren around and takes all the energy from the normal parent who is trying to save them from themselves, not realizing that they too are really a psychopath.
Oxy don’t get mad at me dear, but I do not believe in evil children. I’m one of those people that thinks until the child is making his own decisions the parents are responsible for his behavioral patterns. Of course this doesn’t stop them from deciding to be useless P’s as adults. And I know there are personalities in kids that make it real hard to get them to care about others.. but it’s not impossible. They all start out as innocent babies, and I don’t think it’s impossible for any child to grow up healthy with lots of encouragement and a little bit of luck.
Dear Kat,
Sweetie, I could never get “mad” at you for expressing your opinon. That’s what this blog is all about. All I ever do is express my opinion, that’s all any of us can do. Feeling safe here to express an opinon, when in our P relationships we weren’t allowed to have “opinions” is healing.
I don’t believe that a child is born an alcohholic either, but they have the genes that predispose them to becoming alcoholics and then they make the CHOICE to drink. I think the P thing is the same way. If they make an “evil” or “bad” choice and get “rewarded” for it by succeeding in getting what they want then they are more likely to repeat that behavior.
But the way the Ps “spread” their seed and move off, leaving those children who have the PREDISPOSITION to problem behaviors, lack of impulse control etc. for the “normal” parent to raise gives the “normal” parent a real challenge, especially if they dont’ know waht they are dealing with. A P guy for example who has 7 or 8 kids by 6 or 7 women and moves off leaving the women to raise the kids, has an increased chance of spreading his “bad genes” than the normal guy who has only 1 or 2 children and stays around to raise them.
My biological father was a RAGING PSYCHOPATH and I don’t think I am one, but I obviously had some genes to pass on, because my youngest biological son is a RAGING PSYCHOPATH and my older son is NOT. Both of my bio boys have BOTH grandfathers who are Ps, and their dad is NOT a P though he has other problems, mainly depression from being the child of an abusive P, so my kids got the “chance” to be a P from both sides of the genetics lotto, but only one of them made the CHOICES that led to the behavior.
Environment, in my opinon, gives some options to help over come the genes, but the genes I think DO predispose, not dictate. My P son has CHOICES, he made those CHOICES when he was a teenager and has been evil ever since. When he was little, he was the ideal child, but I have seen some in inpatient settings that were pure evil by the time they were 10 or 11. Pure psychopath, though you can’t “legally” label them that at that age.
I just flashed on the way the cow bird and I think the coo coo too, can’t remember for sure, lay their eggs in other bird’s nests so that they can lay more eggs and get someone else to raise them than they could hatch out if they raised them themselves. It is very common for p men especially to have 6-7- or more kids and not raise a one of them.
Hi folks
My daughter has just started to understand her father is a S.
She was getting very upset and confused by his behaviour and was asking why he didnt behave like her other friends dads towards their daughters (nurturing and caring). Yesterday she found lots of contacts on the computer she uses for her homework. he has made through sex contact sites, and his profiles of himself with very exaggerated descriptions about his physique and what he wanted to do to people, she also found a file with 2 photos of fully clothed women which have been scanned on from actual photos, she has got it in her head that he may be doing something very bad, I have tried to put her mind at rest but I am also clueless as to who these women are, obviously she is in a turmoil. She loves her dad but doesnt understand him. She broke down hysterically sobbing this evening and I dont know the best way to handle it, I have told her she is loved and hugged her, and explained a bit about his behaviour she is very bright and had already suspected all was not quite right, she actually sent me an e-mail about s and asked if this was what was wrong with her dad. Luckily she displays none of his tendencies and is a very kind and caring girl. I am afraid about her emotional well being, I have asked her if she would find it easier to talk to a counsellor but she said no. Her father is oblivious to the damage he is causing, or is aware and doesnt care anyway. Please could someone advise me how I can limit damge, especially anyone who has had experience with their own children. I know the obvious solution is to get away, but it only came to a head yesterday and I only realised then what a lie we were living. I am trying to plan getting away for him but it will take some time as I am very ill at the moment, recently out of hospital.
Dear Moraira,
It seems like when the “fit hits the shan” it all comes at once doesn’t it, getting sick, finding out about his betrayals, trying to take care of your daughter and nurture her, trying to nurture youself! Whew! That’s a big load.
I am not a psychiatrist, but do have some experience but MY OPINION is that I would be up front and truthful with your daughter. I guess it is kind of like when we found out there wasn’t a Santa Claus, or an Easter Bunny. We didn’t want to believe it, but at the same time, we were old enough for the TRUTH.
My sons’ father was mentally ill, and his father, who was a P, managed to get guardianship of him in order to rip me off financially and he did a good job. My kids were small school age at the time and I just told them “you dad is sick, but it is his thinking that is sick. If he had an appendix burst and was sick you would still love him, but his thinking is “sick” and he can’t act like the dad that you knew.” They accepted that.
My X never again saw his sons, never sent a card after the first christmas, and sent his child support (what little there was) faithfully, but no contact ever again. He called me once, about 3 yrs after the divorce and was crying on the phone apologizing. I just listened for a while, and then tried to talk to him, and I don’t think he even heard me. I swear it sounded like an “oral suicide” note, then he just stopped in mid sentence and hung up. We have never heard a word from him again. He’s a very unhappy man who has tried to please his abusive P father his entire life and never managed to do it. I stood up to the old man and he set out to destroy our marriage and succeeded in destroying his son as well.
That’s been 30 yrs ago and the old man would be 95 now, so I presume he has passed on to what I presume is his “hot spot in hell, reserved for wicked and evil Ps.”
Your daughter will have to grieve that her father isn’t a “normal father”—I had a P father, who is sitting I am sure next to my late X-FIL, and I grieved also that I didn’t have a “father” that was able to love. But, I was fortunate that I had a great step father, so that helped.
I am just grateful that your S has not been able to alienate your daughter and also that she is NOT like him. It’s tough being a teenager today even under the best of circumstances.
I’d just play it by ear, let her educate herself and be supportive. Assure her that you will be there for her, and that the two of you are going to be OK, but I wouldn’t try to pull any wool over her eyes, I think the TRUTH is the best thing, but maybe Dr. Leedom or some of the others will chime in and give you some more advice too.
to Oxdrover, thanks for the advice, it is so tough at the moment but I am determined I wont become soft with him again, tonight I have already been thinking that I need to phone him at work as he is being very cold and its as if I need to make him like me again. I know its stupid and I wont give him the benefit of it, although I have these feeling and I dont know why I now have an understanding thanks to this website and its members so thanks everyone. I will make sure my daughter is ok, we are very close and she is very open with me about her feelings, so I know she isnt holding it in
Dear Moraira,
Try not to let him know you are “plotting” to get away from him, but at the same time, be careful that he doesn’t “suck you back into the web”—I have been sucked back into the webs so many times it was like a revolving door.
Last summer during all the worst of the chaos in my life, I got tick fever and was extremely ill for several months before I even realized I was Ill, I just thought I felt like crap because I was stressed (and I am a medical professional). The stress does decrease our immune system though, so keep that in mind that it will help your health to decrease the stress in your life. I know change is always stressful, and it was for me, but at the same time, BE GOOD TO YOURSELF, I am sometimes a “driven” person to DO stuff, andit is difficult for me to sit still with a sink full of dirty dishes or something that I think “needs” to be done. I think the illness was “God’s way of telling me to SLOW DOWN” LOL I am learning however, to slow down and BE GOOD TO ME. To work when I feel like it and not feel guitly if I don’t feel like it. The world is not going to come to an end if I don’t do the dishes tonight.
But now that my health and strength have returned over the last year I am able to do more, but I no longer PUSH myself (well, not AS MUCH anyway) LOL Don’t want to be caught telling a lie on THIS blog! ha ha
There have been several of us who have had serious or semi seriouis health problems that I have no doubt are related to stress that we have been under for a long time. One gal found out she had breast cancer, but I think it has been successfuly treated. Many of us have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
But you know, Moraira, this is one of the most caring, and knowledgable and intelligent groups I have ever met, in RL or on the net. There is always someone here when the going gets tough!
Hi Oxdrover, I too am a health care professional, unfortunately I am now on long term sick leave and may not be allowed to go back to work in my current job because the stress affects me so much. I think the problem is I am stressed at work and then I come home to stress, so i am never rested. I have a hereditary blood disorder but when I was recently admitted to hospital they thought I had lupus or lymes symptoms, they did a barrage of tests but all negative, I am completely fatigued and I cant recover as I am having stress daily. He seems to be worse when I am unwell, he doesnt stop. I am sure you are right that stress reduces the immune system, and this has prompted me to try and make a move now as I am scared for my long term health. I wish I could be stronger, at the moment it feels like a bereavement, and I want the world to stop but I have to carry on and get back to work as I cant afford to stay off much longer as I earn the main salary.
I feel blessed that I found you all in this group and have already learned a lot, I had some second thoughts tonight and worried that I was overeacting to what has happened but underneath I know I’m not and that I just want things to be ok. I am glad your health has returned, it gives me some hope,