By | October 23, 2013 82 Comments

Recovery From A Sociopath: Learning From Past Mistakes

by Quinn Pierce

I’ve been thinking a lot lately about the process of learning from our mistakes.  It sounds simple enough.  After all, it’s easy to look in the rear-view mirror and see exactly where we went wrong.  Events always look so clear and uncomplicated when looking at them from a safe distance.

So, with a little self-reflection, we can identify those decisions that led us into unsafe territory and vow never to make them again.

Complicated Choices

But, this is where I run into a problem.  I know which experiences I do not want to repeat, but the choices I made that led to those experiences are not as black and white as the experiences themselves.

For example, I chose to love someone and trust them to love me back.  The problems arose because I chose someone who was incapable of love or trust, but, at the same time, that person was very good at pretending he could.   I had no prior experiences to tell me that such people existed.  Essentially, I was trusting in the goodness most people are born with, unaware my soon-to-be husband either wasn’t born with it, or lost it somewhere along the way.

I think this is why recovery from a sociopath is such a complicated road.  Most of us did not make choices that need to be avoided throughout life, in fact, just the opposite.  Love and trust are essential components of healthy relationships; we just chose people who are innately incapable of healthy relationships.  That’s the part of the experience that needs to be avoided in the future, but it’s not quite so easy to detach those things from each other.

Discovering and Accepting the Truth

Once I knew my husband’s emotions were all a matter of convenience for him, I was angry, confused, frustrated, and sad.  It’s taken me a long time to actually accept this as fact.  I constantly held out a glimmer of hope that he was capable of, at least, compassion and understanding.  If not for me, I wanted to believe this for my sons’ sake.  But, it isn’t so.  And the sooner I could accept this, the sooner I could move past all those emotions that were keeping me stuck and unable to break free of the relationship completely.

Necessary Steps

This was the most difficult step for me.  I just couldn’t believe, despite what I had experienced, that another human being was incapable of loving his children.  At least, not the way I understand love to be.  He may feel obligation and some type of responsibility, but it’s only as much as he has figured out that society requires from him in order for him to be regarded as a ”˜good father’.  The reality is he sees them much more as objects that belong to him than the beautiful, loving, amazing boys that they are.  And, again, that is reality, and pretending otherwise does not help any of us heal, it just prohibits any chance of moving forward.

Today, I’m much more aware of the dangers hiding within some people in this world.  So much so that I wouldn’t even consider myself to be an overly cautious person, just more alert to the signs I now know to be the red flags of behaviors and personalities.  I’ve also learned to trust my instincts and stand up for myself.

But as far as the choices I made so many years ago that led to a disastrous and regrettable relationship, I’m not so sure those are things I need to change.  I would say, instead, that my healing requires that I continue to make those same choices again, but only with those who deserve such important parts of me.

If I were to never to love or trust anyone again because of my experience with a sociopath, that would be my most regrettable choice.

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Thank you Quinn. It is important for us to understand what you pointed out – we didn’t really make a bad decision in becoming involved with these social predators. We were deceived. The sociopaths put on a wonderful facade, and we didn’t see the cracks – until it was too late.


Ms. Donna:

It is really hard not to blame myself for being involved with my Spath. It is hard to accept that I was “deceived” to such an extent.

When you advised me to have NC I didn’t think I was capable of doing it. Now that I have had NC for over a month, I am a totally different person. I laugh so much more, I feel so much better both mentally and physically, I spend more time with my boys. It has been a wonderful month and I so look forward to the rest of my life spath free.

I just simply think I will always hate him and never fully understand the why behind the man. I won’t ever trust the way I did before and right now don’t trust my heart at all.

Kataroux – You’ve already made great progress! It really hasn’t been that long since you dumped the guy. Give yourself more time – you may find yourself feeling better than ever!


Ms Donna, do you think they could ever change? At times I am wondering if he treats the new woman/girl/co worker the same or will he have his mask on at first? Someone mentioned to me that he probably treats her much better than he treated me. I do question this? I am glad for this website. Often I thought it was my fault that I was so abused and discarded but now learned that it was all him.


Hi Kaya,

I know you addressed your question to Donna, but I feel like I want to give you some support.

Seems like most of us have thes nagging questions in the back of our minds: Can he change? Is he treating the new target like a queen?

No. Yes, until he ruins her life too.

Meaning, he won’t change. Not unless he is ‘faking’ being a psychopath. But why would anyone fake being a horrible human being?

Yes, he is probably love-bombing, or otherwise seducing his new target. He has to, to secure his steady supply of control, attention, and goodies. But, in the end, however long he draws it out with her, she will meet the same fate you did.

These sorts do ‘learn’, sort of. They learn how to pretend better. So he may be pretending better with her, and that looks like she is being treated better. But, you see?, she isn’t….it is just pretend. Just for the fun of it.

You could be Christy Brinkley and the Queen of England rolled into one, and he would still run his game. It isn’t about us, EVER. It is about them, TOTALLY.

Quinn is right. We needn’t throw out our decision to love and trust. But it takes some serious willingness to see reality, and adjust our beliefs, about life, and about ourselves; so we can protect ourselves from giving our gems to the wrong sort.

Take good care Kaya,


Thank you slimone for this explanation. It helped me a lot to understand. No, he was not pretending to be a sociopath. My marriage counselor diagnosed him after 3 visits. She said she has never met such an extreme narcissist in her entire career. She was astonished by his lack of empathy, his coldness, his superiority and just his entire behavior. She had advised me to file for divorce 2 years ago before I even exposed him in his lies. I guess she was right all along. I will never forget one of her comments, she said he was so deceiving that he seemed very dangerous to her. Thanks again slimone.
I don’t “hate” the other woman anymore. In a way she took my place and saved my life 🙂



You were super fortunate to have such a knowledgeable and straight-talking therapist! Who knows how long you would have stayed if it hadn’t been for her honest assessment. Since so many people tell us to be more patient and kind, and try to work it out, and other such good advice- that doesn’t apply to relationshams with disordered persons; it’s great when someone give us the straight s***.

I had a good therapist too. She helped me see him for what he really was, and then work on me, so I didn’t allow another him into my life.

She helped me connect some of my own issues and false beliefs about myself, and life in general, to create a better me. More aware, less vulnerable, more resilient, and less likely to allow mistreatment.

I found it extremely painful to acknowledge the existance of these People of the Lie. It shattered the world view that I preferred: that everyone was deep down honest and only behaved badly because they wanted to be loved. Then I would jump in and try to love them out of their atrocious behavior.

It didn’t work. I repeated this pattern for most of my life.

It was also painful to realize, though I didn’t ask for or ‘attract’ bad people, I assigned them ‘normal’ intentions, time and time again. I just didn’t KNOW that truly bad, irremdeemable people existed. I didn’t know that by not being aware of this I was unwittingly staying in no-win situtations.

I have been ‘free and clear’ for about 6 years now. There isn’t really any residual pain left. Much of what I feel now is a great sense of relief and gratitude.



Thank you slimone . I am still seeing my therapist who helps me a lot to recover from the 20 years of abuse. It has been about 8 months since he left and yes, I am starting to feel “alive” again. It feels great not having to worry about all the lies and betrayals and being blamed for everything. My therapist along with a few true friends are the only ones who are supportive. Most other people don’t understand why there is no contact and find it “unbelievable” that my 19 year old son refuses to talk to him. “He still needs to talk to him because that’s his father,” we hear this all the time. I made the decision not to associate with those people anymore. They just have no idea what both my son and I were dealt with for the past 20 years. I am still proud of myself for enforcing the no contact. This is the only way we can move on past this nightmare.



I like your statement “I don’t hate the other woman anymore. In a a way she took my place and saved my life.” I am 3 1/2 years out since ending my marriage to my spath. I am making progress and just taking it a day at a time. I can’t tell you how much time I spent agonizing over “the other women”. I now know, because of this website, that his MO will always be the same. He will never have a healthy or successful relationship. He will definitely treat them wonderfully in the beginning, but as soon as he gets bored or they are no longer useful to him, they will be disregarded as well. I can definitely say that no contact has worked wonders. Unfortunately I had to break all contact with his 3 daughters and everyone at the church he goes to because they were all huge enablers for him and I had no chance of recovery if I continued in those relationships. They simply do not understand who they are dealing with. But I can say with a smile that things do get better. We all heal at our own pace, but healing is possible. I am still picking up the pieces and putting my life back together. It’s difficult at times and I still occasionally have a short crying spell, but I don’t beat myself up for it anymore. Like you said, she saved my life…literally. If not for the other women, I probably would still be in the relationship fighting for my life because I am very loyal and believe that when you truly love someone you don’t give up. Finding this website saved me and has been the reason I have come this far. I would much rather be where I am now, picking up the broken pieces than where I was with the big house, fancy cars and all the stuff that doesn’t really matter in the end. I was absolutely miserable, scared, physically ill and losing touch with any sense of reality in that relationship. You made the right choice. No he CANNOT change. Once you can truly realize that and not let your emotions confuse you about that fact, you will be on your way to a new life of peace and happiness. Good luck and many prayers going your way.


Thank you for your encouraging comments. For about a year I agonized over this “other woman”blaming her, hating her. But just like you said if it wasn’t for her he would have never left me and I sure wasn’t “brave” enough to leave him. Yes, my big house, all the money he made dropped down on my “important ” list. It does not hold value in my life anymore. What matters most is that I am not being a victim anymore. 20 years was enough. I am sure I will have done crying moments at times but I have not cried in about 5 months. What an improvement from crying daily when he was in my life. I don’t feel “guilty” anymore for not seeing his evil being. Because I tried so hard to see the good in him that I almost lost myself. I now realize that there was nothing good in him at all. Thank you all for your honest stories and the support.


Kaya, when I first started dating my ex-spath who was having an affair with me, his ex mother of his child wondered the same thing. I would read emails where she would ask him questions like Why do you love her more than me? And why didn’t you ever do this with me?

I had the opportunity to be “that other woman” (not proud but it happened) Im sure she was wondering your question of “Does he treat her better?” I can be the voice as the other woman and say that he did NOT treat me better!! Totally in the beginning he love bombed me and I got hooked. Then guess what?? He started treating me the EXACT same way he did to her in the end(her and I had a chance to have a conversation about him afterward to compare notes)

When he eventually started cheating on me I wondered the same thing of course..(they are even engaged and pregnant and she is 13 years his junior) But it didn’t take me long to not give a rip and believe that yes he WILL treat her the same way…

Do you ever selfishly hope that he does treat her badly? Just to justify? I did. I feel guilty about that because I don’t want another human being to go through what I went through. But you know you are healed when you truly don’t care and you are just glad he is FAR FAR away from you and your life(even if you do have kids)


Thank you so much for this valuable statement coming from the “other woman”. Yes my therapist said the same. He just is not capable of treating any woman good because he thinks he is “God”. All people close to him are just an “extension” of him. I don’t worry much about him and his affairs anymore. I used to, with time it does not matter to me anymore. I know he will never be happy even if she was a super sexy model. And yes he will cheat on her once she loses her status and he needs new “supply”. At the end he will be a lonely, old man. He became his own father who left the family because he wanted to be happy with younger women . He is on his 4thmarriage now and none of his adult children talk to him. I just hope this behavior does not carry over to my son.


To Kaya and others….

I, too, was the other woman and he the other man. And I, too, am not proud of this. I ended up divorcing my husband and staying with the sociopathic other for almost four years. He ended up divorced as well. What he ended up doing to his ex-wife by cheating with me, he ended up doing to me by cheating with his next victim…and coincidentally, he cheated on his next victim with me, unbeknownst to me. I found out that information almost a year later. So, as you can see, the cycle continues.

I suffered a great deal of pain through all of this, and I realize I also inflicted a great deal of pain on others when getting involved with the soc. But, all that is over now and I’ve learned to forgive myself. I have moved on and become much healthier emotionally as a result.

These guys don’t change. Like many of us, I had no experience with sociopaths in a relationship, so had no idea what hit me. But now I know. I’ve studied and I’ve learned. But even more importantly, I’ve worked hard on myself to become emotionally stronger and wiser.

Stay strong my friends. We’re here to help.


Thank you for posting this article.Many times I asked myself if I was just too trusting;too naive.You’re so right…beyond knowing the red flags and thus being careful who you trust and love,we did nothing wrong.I did my very best to be a good mother.I knew no matter ‘how high I jumped’ I wouldn’t ever make my husband happy,though I tried my best.


Thank you Quinn for your posting. One particular comment really hit the nail on the head for me and in fact, is something I use over and over again when I go thru a “how did I miss that?” stage:

“I had no prior experiences to tell me that such people existed”

That’s really the crux of the issue for all of us I think – no experience = no knowledge and if you don’t “know or know of” something, you can’t expect yourself to be able to see that something. It, in many ways (even though there are signs but the those signs are meaningless as well without knowledge), is invisible, until, as Donna says, it’s too late. What we must learn from this type of experience, the MOST important thing we can learn, is that there are “dangers hiding within some people in this world”. Unfortunately, the “some people” does not mean the deranged person walking down the street talking to him/herself (wouldn’t that be nice!) but instead, the “some people” look and act just like the rest of us. That’s the scary part!


Since my brief involvement with the sociopath in 2008, I feel much wiser. I now know that these people exist, and I know the signs. I avoided an entanglement with another long distance disordered person who was love bombing me on an internet site about 8 months after I left the spath. The lessons I learned from this site have helped me to spath-proof my life. Donna hit the nail on the head. We didn’t know. None of us knew. Now we know. It took about a year to start trusting again after my horrible experience. I really didn’t trust anyone. I finally started letting my guard down again, and it has brought me a lot of happiness. I don’t think you can be really happy in life if you are always guarded. But I’m continuously learning that people have to earn deeper levels of trust from me. Some deserve it – some don’t. Being too open and just putting my heart out there indiscriminately has caused me a lot of suffering in the past year. There is no better place to teach me this lesson than the salsa dancing scene.


Thank you for these honest comments, including the ones from the “other” women. It almost makes me feel sorry for his mistress/coworker /deputy/new girlfriend. I admit that I find “happiness” in knowing that she will also be lied to, cheated on, manipulated, yelled at, cussed at, disrespected and eventually discarded. My soon to be ex husband grew up with a sociopath father who discarded his wife after 25 years of marriage and left her with 5 children. He had no empathy and left her on their 25th wedding anniversary because she got too old, boring, fat and would not give him enough sex. I guess it should have been a “red flag” for me but I was so sure my husband wanted to be the opposite of his father. I learned otherwise about a year into our marriage. I tried so hard for 20 years. Now I realized he was exactly his father, even worse at times. Today my attorney called and the court proceedings for the divorce are moving forward. And for the first time I felt this happiness about this divorce. No fear, no being afraid of the future. I know I made the right decision when I filed. I am grateful for one thing that came out of this marriage, my beautiful smart, caring, loving son. He is 19 and he told me today “don’t worry mom, I will never be like him.” I accomplished my biggest goal in life and that was to make sure my son is not continuing this family tradition of evilness.


Today I found out through my lawyer why my soon to be ex and his lawyer claim that he is poor and has absolutely in money. He took the coworker/girlfriend on 2 cruises, hd pays everything for her, buys her lavish gifts. At the same time he accuses his son for not talking to him. He stopped paying his college tuition the day he left did this other woman almost 9 months ago. I am not even angry. Like my lawyer said no money in the world , no going on cruises can get him the live of his family back.


Quinn – you write so beautifully and with such truth, I feel like we are ‘sisters’ as many of us who feel like this site (thank you Donna A)has validated the craziness that we called our marriages or relationships
Your line ‘If I were to never to love or trust anyone again because of my experience with a sociopath, that would be my most regrettable choice” really touched my heart. I too was raised looking for the good in people and my 11 yr marriage to the Me-Monster made me realize in 1000 ways otherwise. Just the other day, I thought to myself, it has been over a year since I have felt rage or cried or felt despondent. It is not easy but once we get them out of our lives it is nothing short of miraculous how our body chemistry can change. I probably look 10 yrs younger and my eyes sparkle again.My friend said that when I was on the phone with her my voice was even ‘lighter’.
I would love to meet so many of you. Share a bottle of wine and enjoy we are with others who get it. Many of our friends and family don’t know the hell we have lived with and in a way that is a blessing. You go to a very dark place when trying to understand it and/or explain it. And I really don’t want to. This is the only place I put time into recalling my ‘life lessons’. Thank you all for being brave enough to share and to love yourselves through the healing. Blessings,


Thank you Quinn for this, I agree with DonnaC, that last paragraph is hopeful, and I no longer believe that I will never love again. Last night marked one year since the beginning of my recovery. I have come a long way in the past year, but still have a long way to go. I am in therapy and still on antidepressants. There is residual PTSD and cognitive dissonance, but I don’t allow it to control me. I admit there is still a lot of work to do on myself to free myself from the self doubt and insecurity that was there before the SP but was magnified and exploited by him in our last phone conversation. A year ago, I didn’t fully understand what a sociopath was. I was thinking they were along the lines of cult leaders and serial killers. Never would have thought it was an online contact I had never met, but thought of as a friend, a goodhearted person. He was never on my radar as being harmful. And when I finally accepted he is harmful, was never a friend, was only messing with me for his entertainment, I was able to stop thinking that I was the problem, and that I am capable and deserving of a relationship where I feel accepted, respected and safe. Of course, I’m not ready for that yet, but at least I have faith now that it is possible. Hope everyone is well 🙂


I still have a hard time comprehending that a person can be truly bad and entirely self-centered. Acceptance of a betrayal, getting past the surprise and hurt, is really the first step. I am still amazed by my husband’s attitudes and actions toward his off-spring. Donna once said that having children with a sociopath is a nightmare and beyond the scope of that current discussion. I had so many children with a sociopath that I almost feel beyond reach of this group. Someday I’d like to write a story about what the outcome was with my nine children. I almost feel that I should apologize for having been so careless. But I didn’t comprehend sociopathy. It wasn’t until I found this site that I even had a name for my husband’s baffling behavior. As an aside, the kids have been a mixed bag. Two have definite personality disorders.
I’m thankful for all you write, Quinn. Thankful also for Donna’s abundant input.


Thank you Quinn for your article. It has been one year since I left the spath that I had a one sided relationship with. I came here today, to pay homage to LF and all who share here. I will always be grateful to Donna and all the fellow bloggers here, for helping me understand the most confusing and painful relationship of my life.

Quinn, your comment that, ” I’ve learned to trust my instincts and stand up for myself.” is something I did not even understand when I first landed here. Now I believe I do. I made the error of thinking I was ready to date again this past summer, attracted yet another spath, and amazingly, I saw through him quick enough to avoid total disaster. I found myself unafraid of him and ended it myself before I was devasteated. This is an improvement over the first experience. I see now that after a spathship, there is so much damage to repair, and so many old inner wounds opened, that indeed …I will need a long time, perhaps years, before I will open my life up to the possibility of love again.

Accepting that I loved an illusion, painted especially for me, was the hardest part in acceptance for me. It has been a very difficult letting go, knowing that another human being that I cared deeply for, never saw me as anything other than an object to be used for their amusement and supply. But, as stated above, it is a valuable addition to our inner wisdom when we realize that some human beings are incapable of love and compassion and just because I gave it to someone, it does not follow that they can or will give it back.

I still have a long road ahead to rebuild myself. I still have periods of being sad and sometimes depressed. Yet, deep inside me, I know I will.
Thank you for your share Quinn, and to all here who share and help others by doing so.



After being discarded in such a harsh way I have, like everyone else, had to reflect over the past years. Now that my blinders are off I see what I should have seen all along – He will never love because he can’t. That being said, I do feel that sometimes I have a neon sign above my head that only Spath’s can read which apparently reads “good woman – use her”! Everyday I fight through that stupid sign and tell myself that I am a good woman and nobody has a right to use me unless I give that right to them.

A friend of mine (a male friend), whom I have known for years, told me the other day that I deserve to have a man treat me with as much love, passion, respect, etc. that I give to the man I am with! At first I just laughed and thought – sure I do! But you know, I do deserve that – we all deserve to find someone we can share a life with that won’t expect anything from us other than love.

Now don’t get me wrong, I am in no way looking for another man – God forbid – but I have to be honest with myself and realize that just because all I attract is Spaths does not mean I can’t change who I attract and I think that begins with me on the inside. I second guess everything now. Small sweet comments by other men I wonder why the comments were said, what does he want, etc. and I can’t blame every man in the world because I found the crappy ones.

Each day we all get stronger, smarter, more independent in our own lives, and better overall because we went through all this. I have learned so much about who I am in the past few months that I am amazed at the strength I have found within myself. I have a long way to go and trust issues I may never overcome but one thing I do know for certain – My former Spath will not get the best of me. The best of me is yet to come.

Thank you all for being so wonderful in showing me that I am worth it and that it was not my fault. I finally have stopped blaming myself and that was a huge step for me.


Yes every day we are getting stronger . I am in the midst of the divorce proceedings now and I have no more fear or worry. The almost 6 months no contact has given me all my sanity and peace back that I feel now “empowered” to fight this battle of my life. I, like you, question every comment or little compliment from men. The first thing that comes into my mind is that I am dealing with another sociopath. The other day a male co worker complained to me that his children with the ex wife won’t talk to him. He told me he got divorced because he wasn’t “happy” anymore, he wanted out and be free and find new women. He discarded his wife and 3 kids. And he honestly expected sympathy from me. My answer was “I really hate men who do that to their families.” He looked at me puzzled. Another one right next to me.
I am now 48 and I am planning to heal and recover from over 20 years of abuse. I often question myself how I could ever trust a man again. I trusted my soon to be ex with all my heart and he threw it all away. Just like he took out the weekly garbage. Not only his wife but also his child. I also noticed that I don’t think about him much anymore even the good times kind of evaporated. Because it was all a lie anyhow. There was no meaning in anything that had to do with him. Good luck Katareaux. I was wondering the other day if you still enforce the no contact ?



I absolutely enforce the No Contact – I don’t care to ever speak, look at, or drive by that man again. I know eventually he will come back around – and one day he will – and all he will find is a locked door and a cold person behind it. If he wanted an enemy, he got one!!

As for trust in a man – never! I don’t trust anyone but myself anymore and am cautious about everything that I do. But, and it is a big but, I do believe that there are good men in the world and it would not be fair to treat every man like they are a Spath (although most are). I keep my distance, keep my heart out of everything, and trust in myself and my instincts. I recently turned down an offer to go out with a man because he was “too nice” and that raised a red flag. You can’t be overly nice to someone you just met – at least that is how I looked at it.

My few friends and family all say that I am so much happier without the Spath that I am thankful that he is gone. I hate him for hurting me but I know the truth and that gives me the ability to sleep at night. Knowing that even now as he pretends to be “all that” he is actually nothing but a scared little boy trying to pretend to be a man in the big ole world.

Just think, you won the battle in the long run!! You got out! I know there is nothing justice about our justice system but I will pray that your matter is resolved quickly and correctly!

By the way, I have had no contact since September 25th and am staying strong!!


The pain and mistrust eventually get better, and their place there will be wisdom and confidence. You will learn to trust another man even though right now you feel like you’d rather go through the rest of your life alone than go through even one day or date with a spath. But you heal. The minutes in the day that your thoughts return to your ex, start to diminish, without you even realizing it. I remember feeling like I’d never get all the horror out of my head, then one day I realized I hadn’t thought about him or the kids or the whole insane situation for OMG was it 30 min, an hour? Nights were no longer drawn out battles trying to settle my mind and not replay the last conversation or last revelation or strategy for the next hearing. That’s when I knew the healing had started. Minutes become hours and hours become days then weeks, when your thoughts will not return to him unless something very specific or maybe even innocuous springs him to mind. You learn to trust that voice inside yourself. You learn to never second guess. You learn that when it feels wrong it probably is wrong and when it sounds like a lie, it is. I’m not a religious person, not in any way, but I have come to feel that something greater has led me through the fire and safely to this side. Maybe it was my friends, maybe innate strength, maybe it’s just all of the women (and men) on this site and other like it that wish us well and whisper prayers to keeps us all safe ( I know that I do), that send us their positive thoughts and energy. For everyone here I wish for the day when fear no longer grips your heart in the dead of night and startles you awake. I wish you all peace and the return of love to your hearts and your lives.


Thanks for your prayers. Indeed you are right I already won this battle by getting out of it. It sure was a battle from day one of these 20 years. Like you I still do and will always “hate” this man. Not a hate feeling where I become bitter or angry. I am so much happier too. People tell me I look much better and I have the feeling of peace.
Oh yes and does my soon to be ex play it up with dinners, cruises and lavish gifts for her. Do I care ? Absolutely not, she will be paying for all of it. And I guess money can buy him sex from a young sexy woman. Do I care? No because I have the love of my son. And that’s above all cruises and dinners.
I am so proud of your no contact. :).



I could not have seen the truth, or come to terms with it without all of the support I have recieved here. We all are so different and yet have such a strong bond between us because we dared to love someone who was incappable of loving in return. No matter what these Spaths do they cannot hurt us anymore and all of the “wonderful” things they are doing now with their new victims will eventually die out because the one thing we can count on is “if it is not about them they are angry”.

My mutual friends still talk to him and still help him out from time to time but even they are beginning to really see that what I have told them is true. They hear him talk about how he is borrowing money yeah to borrow you have to have the intention of paying back – which Spath never pays anyone back) from his mother and father (who he hated until now) and is even hitting out our friends. I am grateful enough that my friends think I am so much better without him that they tell me when he is over there just so I don’t stop by and run into him and his best friend thinks he is just plain stupid. (They are good friends).

Like you I don’t care what he does as long as he does it far away from me. I am not bitter, or even angry anymore (Thank you Ms. Donna – you told me that would pass and it did!). I am happy to be rid of him and happy that I got out with my sanity. Now I focus on my children and myself and not some boy pretending to be a man.

You are such a strong person Kaya that I admire all that you have overcome and how hard you have fought to get where you are now. Only good things can happen from this point out – for all of us!!!


I feel the same way. Without the support from here I could have never seen the truth. The other day my mom reminded me how far I have come. From crying and stupid begging him to come home to filing for divorce and standing up for myself and my child. I don’t want to come across as religious but I don’t know where I go this strength from, it must be from above. Luckily he moved about 25 miles away to a different county where he is a deputy. All “our” friends don’t talk to him anymore. They all pretty much cut him out of their lives what is a good thing. I don’t care what he is doing with her. I used to check her facebook page where she flaunts their relationship. I read Ms Donnas steps and stopped checking months ago. Who cares on what cruise they are going, where they are eating out. Seeing my son doing great in college, cooking for my son and being a part of his life every day is much more important than this sick relationship they have. It was based on lies and betrayals and it will end the same way. If better “supply” comes along she will be history anyhow. He can go through life hurting and deceiving people, that is his choice and he must live with this guilt everyday. He sent my son a birthday card saying “I love you more than anything in this world, I wish you were different”. Blaming my son for his evilness. The card went right into the garbage. Interesting how you mentioned that your ex contacts his parents all of a sudden. I noticed on financial disclosures that my soon to be ex started sending flowers to his mom. They were never close before. Who knows what kind of lies he told about me. That is why I cut off all contact to his family also. Too dangerous, he could twist words and use it against me in court.
Thanks for telling me that I am a strong person. I used to question this a lot but I do feel stronger now. Thanks to all you kind words.

Kaya48 and Kataroux – I am so happy to see you both doing so well! You go girls!


Ms. Donna:

I do not believe I would be doing as well as I am without this site and all the wonderful people in it. You were so blunt the first time we communicated but it was through that bluntness that I was able to actually see the truth and I thank you so very much for being honest and helping me see the truth. I have had no contact with that man and will never have contact with him again, regardless because I know he will only try to break me down again. I will never allow him that opportunity!

You were right, the pain goes away, the sorrow fades, and although I will never forgive him, I know that I have to keep moving forward to save myself. I am suspicious of every man but I know that I have to be because I am Spath magnet.

Thank you for showing me what I should have seen in the beginning.


Thank you Ms Donna, Katareaux stated it so correctly. I feel exactly the same way. It was so difficult and painful to cut off all contact. And you were right, it gets easier with time as the fog lifts and I can see clearly again. It is almost like I was in a 20 years long “fog” and almost lost myself. The feeling of peace, sanity and freedom is “empowering”. Today as I left my attorneys office I actually had a smile on my face. I still remember the first time I was in his office, crying as he was putting together my defense for the injunction my husband had filed against me. What an improvement. I left his office today knowing that I will be ok no matter what. I will never forget the day I signed the petition for divorce. To me this is one of the best days of my life. I finally stood up and said I am done. No more crazy making, my son and I are done with this abuse. Thanks to everyone for your encouraging comments.


Everyone, I know this has nothing to do with anything here on this site but I need prayers. My boss became sick with strep throat this past week, ended up in septic shock, was rushed to the ER where he underwent emergency surgery, and is now on a ventilator, medical induced coma, with kidney failure…he is 45, with a wife and 3 small children (ages 8, 7, and 5). He is currently in critical condition and is fighting the fight of a lifetime. Please, pray for him and his family, his name is James Maughan. They need all the prayers we can send.

Thank you all!!!


I will be praying for your boss. As you know I am a Christian and god works wonders. God has given me a lot of strength lately and I know for a fact that he is in control. As we all know it, never give up hope. Replace fear with hope and faith. He is in my prayers and I will put in for a special prayer request tomorrow at my church.

jenni marie

well, it was two days of No Contact. I’m a hidden mess. No one knows how bad I feel. There’s that word again, “feel”. I don’t want to feel anything right now. I thought that him thinking I wanted to be with another dude because of what I told him on the ride home the other night would finally keep him away from me. I thought I was now going to be his “garbage”.
12:20am- He just knocked on my front door. I ignored it. He knocked on the back door. I opened it and asked him why he was here? He said “I’ll just go then” and faked like he was just going to leave, but then he looked past me into my apartment, scanning the scene, probably looking for the “new dude” that I obviously had planned on being with when I told him that we were done two days ago. I’ve broken it off with him more than ten times in the last three years. There is definitely something wrong with me too for allowing it all to go on for so long.
I told him that leaving would probably be best because to him, Losing IS Winning and….congratulations “YOU WIN”. I said I don’t like the way he does me. He said that he doesn’t like the way that I do him. He didn’t apologize for his last stunt. I said, “what happened, did you suddenly realize that I really did love you and that you screwed up?” as he left the patio and latched the gate and slowly walked over to his truck that he had parked around the corner of the parking lot, and I know he parked over there so I wouldn’t see his head lights coming through the patio slider when he got here. He looked pretty ragged and I’d like to believe that he actually might have felt his loss of control on me tonight and that is why he made his way over here. To try and trick me again into that stupor he can put me in.
It feels like he’ll be back at any second.
I don’t know why I opened the door, other than to get in one more reminder that it is and was his actions that made everything so miserable. Although, I was sick of hearing myself do it, but I’ll bet listening to me whine, complain, beg and cry probably made things miserable for him. His game was to make me jealous and insecure with his whereabouts. He liked to hang around Ex’s and younger girls that know people that he knows. He’s 54. This last girl is about 21 and he squished up against her on the boat on the fourth of July instead of squishing up next to me when we were all shifting over to let another friend sit down. These little subtle things weren’t so subtle to me, and this girl is falling for it.
Two days ago we were at a couple’s house that he knows. She is always throwing her body in his face and bouncing all around him. Her husband doesn’t care. Anyway, she went into their bedroom to look up a car insurance quote and within a couple minutes he was chomping at the bit to follow her in there. I could see his body reacting to the opportunity to be alone with her in the other room. Yes, he was getting an erection. He got up to go in there and I bumped him with my elbow and said “you’re not going in there. she’s doing just fine without you” but he still had to walk halfway to the bedroom, fighting the urge to follow her in there as I watched his mind and body process the fact that he really shouldn’t be going in there this time because I was actually THERE for This visit, unlike the last year that he has spent time there without me. Well, he decided to go outside on the deck because by now his hard-on was extremely obvious even though he tried to deny it. He then went out onto the patio to try and get rid of his erection. It worked. I was pretty upset. Nothing new to me. I called him on everything I had just witnessed and he smiled a sick smile.
On the way home I told him, again, that I didn’t want to be the one with the boyfriend who has to follow all the girls around and flirt with anything cute within 25 feet, acting like he’s single and giving these girls the idea that he liked them more than just as a friend. All of his adventures were with other people and other girls. Anyway, I told him that I have decided that if I can’t beam ’em, that I am going to join ’em. From now on I was going behave just like him and since he expects me to put up with it that I expect that he’ll be able to put up with it just fine because that is how he operates. Nothing new to him, right? I said that I am going to follow guys around at every chance I get when they visit or we visit them, and flirt “innocently” with any cute guy that is near me even if they have a husband or a girlfriend because apparently he and all of his friends seem to be perfectly okay with all of this type of behavior so I am going to join in the flirt party like the rest of them.
He didn’t like that idea. Can you believe it? He didn’t like my idea? Huh? It’s his playbook and he doesn’t like it??!!
I immediatly got the silent treatment for the whole hour ride home. The next morning as I was getting ready for work, he got up and started giving me the glare thing and not letting me give him a hug good morning and that he wasn’t in a very good mood. He pushed me off of him when I tried a second hug, hoping to avoid a total melt down scene before work again. He just huffed and puffed and stalked out with me. Instead of me giving him a ride home he started to walk home. I pulled up next to him to ask him if he wanted a ride so I wouldn’t be accused later of not asking him if he wanted a ride, and I handed him the grocery bag he had left in my car and I think said something about him not having to be such a jerk in the morning and making it so that my day starts on a shitty note, and he then squirted his whole bottle of water through my (new) car open window soaking me and the interior of my car. I am on my way to work remember. Now I have to go back inside and redo my hair and change clothes. I was only 19 minutes late, but morning fights and gasilghting from him was his MO on me ever since he decided that I shouldn’t stop for coffee in the morning and he was always doing things to try and make me late. I learned to wake him up 10 minutes before I had to leave instead of 5 mins just so I could get to work on time. He doesn’t get out of bed when asked, he lays there and acts like he didn’t hear me say I have to go. Which leads into the fight of me not giving him my key again. I wouldn’t be late for work if I would just give him my key!
Sorry this turned into such a rant. I am only 2 days into No Contact. This is not my first No Contact. There have been 3 that lasted one month each and many more that lasted a couple of weeks. He has some kind of stupid hold on me. No…..what I want to say is he HAD some kind of stupid hold on me, but then why did I open the door again tonight…….what the hell is wrong with me. I see him for what he is. I found LoveFraud in March of 2010 and I could hardly believe what I was reading about sociopaths. As I read the stories from victims (what a horrible reality to be a victim of these people) and behaviors of disordered people it was as if those writers and healthcare professionals had literally followed him and me around to gather their facts and send them directly to print.
Did I stop seeing him after I read all the evidence that was undisputably pointing toward him being a sociopathic narcisissitc/APD person? No. Not me. I have to find everything out for myself. I am not the kind of person to give up (which I now see as a curse in deailng with him) and I “loved” him.
I DO know what happened to me. I DON’T know why I allowed it and that is the scary part. So what if I want to be loved and cherished. Why would I choose to stay with him for three and half damn years when I knew that what I was getting was anything but love and cherish. dumb.
How long does it take to stop thinking about it all……? I am angry and heart broken while I am angry that I am heartbroken.
I am determined to keep No Contact even though I let myself down tonight, I didn’t let him stay and this is a good enough start for me for now.
I’ve only just registered on this site. I hope to sort through my thoughts and get to that day when I no longer “feel” anything for him except the disgust he deserves. Wish me luck or whatever it takes to get to that day.

jenni marie

ps: I will be thinking good thoughts for Mr Maughan

Jenni Marie – I’m glad you’ve posted a comment on Lovefraud. Perhaps it helps to come out and say it, instead of just reading it – the guy is a sociopath.

So why did you keep going? These relationships are highly addictive. What kept you attached was the addiction.

Therefore, you have to treat ending the involvement like ending an addiction. No Contact gives you the tools.

Yes, you slipped last night. This is not unusual – many people slip when breaking an addiction. But now you know that you felt worse after the slip. Use that to give you strength to maintain no contact.

Take it one day at a time. The longer you stay away from him, the easier it will get.


Jenni Marie:

I was exactly where you are now in September of this year and I know how you feel….you ARE NOT ALONE!!!! The hardest part is accepting that the love you felt for this man was NEVER the love he felt for you. He never loved you!!! I know how hard this is to accept, but you must accept it.

Now you must remain NO CONTACT – do not let him in, do not accept his calls, do not allow him to communicate with you in any way and DO NOT hack his emails, facebook, etc. (I did that). No Contact means No Contact and that is the only salvation you have right now. No Contact is the ONLY POWER you have over him. No matter how hard he begs – do not cave in no matter what.

Now be prepared, he will immediately move on to his next “victim”. Accept it, remember that he is incapable of real love and feelings and emotions, and remember that she is nothing but a piece in a very sick game he plays.

Now the hardest part – forgiving yourself (Yes Ms. Donna, I actually said I struggle with this every day because I should have seen the writing on the wall years ago. However, we love, we feel, we want love in return and we will overlook mountains to get that. You are so very normal and that is a good thing. He is a monster that feeds off of the very fabric of our existence. You were just doing what you knew to do and that is love and trust that he loved and trusted you. I know you are mad, angry, want to physically hurt him, want to scream, want to cry, etc. I know, I was there and still struggle through it at times. Those feeling will begin to pass the longer you remain No Contact and the more you accept the truth of who he really is.

Most importantly, you are a wonderful, beautiful, smart woman who simply dared to love. You will move on, you will forgive yourself, you will doubt everything any man tells you again, you will be more cautious with your heart, but you will WIN THE GAME in the end. You will WIN, not him!!!

If you ever need to talk, I am here – we all are here!

P.S. Thank you for you good thoughts for my boss, I appreciate it!


I have been dating a guy I met at work for 14 months (he was my boss but was ‘let go/sacked from work). I was married when we first got together, I have now left my husband, my home, my dog, my cat for HIM and got a little flat. I haven’t seen him since I left home and barely spoke with him and I am absolutely devastated I am completely head over heels in love with him.

Throughout the last 14 months I have only ever seen him at a hotel he works away Mon to Fri. I have never been to his house (he says he lives with mother who has cancer and comes home every weekend (his step father also has cancer!), he has two children 18 & 14 who he sees most weekends, when we worked together he cried in front of me about his mum. He used to cry when I left the hotel and then not talk for me for two days saying he was trying to cope with missing me, I always seem to be giving him the benefit of doubt.

Our sex life has been amazing and he seems totally genuine and has told me he loves me numerous times and complimented me massively time and time again (I am 44 years old btw)he is a sweet, gentle natured guy, very intelligent, in senior management, I’ve never seen him cross or angry

Throughout the relationship I have questioned a ‘gut feeling’ that something isn’t quite right, is he married ? Comments he has consistently said is ‘I am protecting my heart’ I don’t want to get hurt’ and ‘I am a very private person’ he ignores me for days at a time but then comes back saying he misses me, he’s either full on or ignoring me!!! then he says he is sorry he is in a bad place in his head or he has gone into his shell

I have questioned him about whether he is married he always said I was paranoid and that I scare him when I’m like that, then ignores me for a couple of days

He is insanely jealous and will ring me 50 times, until he gets an answer, he demands to know where I am, who I am with, whether I am having sex with someone else. I never even considered he could possibly be a sociopath and still can’t quite believe it. I can’t accept the last 14 months have possibly been a lie and I meant nothing to him, but so much I have read on this site screams at me he is, I’d rather he was married than this, at least I could try and accept some of his words might have been true.

I am so heart broken and don’t know how to move forward, please help me with this, maybe he is just insecure and scared ? Thank you

PS He has never said actual mean things to me or anything horrible, just cold and distant from time to time.

Quando – He sounds like a sociopath. In fact, he may be a married sociopath. Everything you describe is typical sociopathic behavior.

Gather your courage and end the involvement. Nothing good can come of it.

We have many articles on Lovefraud that will help you. Look in the archives – all of the gray buttons on the menu bar above.


Thank you Donna for your reply, I have replied to Kataroux, please see my reply, I am so scared of losing him, I still love him and miss him so much, its painful



I hate to say this but RUN!!!! Cut all ties with this man and thank goodness it has only bee 14 months. I understand you gave up everything to be with him and that you love him to he DOES NOT love you and never will. I learned the hard way myself and after 7 years have seen the truth and wish I would have seen the truth 7 years ago!!!!

The moment you said that sex was wonderful I knew exactly what how you feel (I am sure most of us here know that feeling) that is not love, it is just sex to him, nothing more – just sex. We tend to turn sex into something it is not so don’t make that mistake. Cut all ties – walk away from him – figure out who you are and what you want and not what you think you should do for some man. Find yourself first!


Thank you so much for replying, but what if we’re wrong, what if he is genuine and I run, I will have lost the man who I love more than I have ever loved any man in my life.

The things he says ‘might’ be true, I am so confused, if he would just come to my flat (and I don’t understand) why he hasn’t I’m sure we could work things out.

The reason he has said he won’t come to the flat, is that its early days, I’m not out of the woods yet, that I might go back to my husband and he is scared and protecting his heart. What if he’s being honest, I just can’t believe the last year has meant nothing to him, that I have meant nothing to him.

He has always treated me well, brilliantly and been loving and affection and kind (except when ignoring me, but even then he said it was because he is low, or his head is not in a good place) we have had an amazing 14 months together, I really don’t want to lose him and I miss him so much



Question – If he “loves you” then wouldn’t he be with you and be happy that you can now be together? No true man in love with a woman would stay away. All Sociopaths say they love you and want to be with you but they make no real effort to do so. As for the last year meaning nothing to him..your right…it has meant nothing to him, it has only meant something to you.

Look, I understand how you feel, it took a lot for me to realize that the last 7 years meant nothing to my ex-Spath but the facts are clear and it meant nothing to him. He moved on to his next victim and was done with me the day I broke up with him.

If this man loves you and knows what you gave up to be with him he would be with you. As you said, he has not once come to see your place that you got so you could be with him, and you know that is wrong because you are here asking the questions you already know the answers to.

Honey, RUN!! RUN FAST!! Don’t do like I did and ignore the signs and spend 7 years with a man who never truly was capable of love. Only thing that happened when he left was I was devastated, he was fine, he didn’t care. Get out and find your true happiness – you will be glad you did.



I was in a similar situation where I left my marriage for another guy. I loved who I thought this man was…but he wasn’t that guy at all. Like you, there were things I was excluded from, and that always made me uncomfortable and left wondering just what was going on. My relationship lasted about four years. Turns out he was a pathological liar, a cheater and a manipulator. There are lots more details to my story, but I’ll let it go at this.

What I really want to say is….from my own personal experience, GET OUT. This is not worth it. If the guy truly cared about you and loved you, he wouldn’t put you in these uncomfortable situations. Yes, I thought the man I was with treated me well, too. They know how to play the game, and they’re masterful at it.

You need to ask yourself why you’d even want to stay with someone who does this to you. He can use as many excuses as he wants, but the truth of the matter is he is treating you poorly by ignoring you, and you’re allowing it to happen. And I think Donna may be right….he very well could be married.

Believe me when I say it took me a long time to figure things out, but now I’m at a point of inner peace. I’m very comfortable with myself and know what to look for going forward. You deserve better. Work on yourself. Find your own inner strength. You can do this!



Last year, I was in the mindset that I could “fix this” that it was miscommunication on my part. It took a while and a lot of therapy to realize that wasn’t true. I was being strung along, led on, manipulated, deceived. I think you see those same red flags I chose to overlook. I wish I was stronger then. But I’m stronger now. All I can think of my experience now was that it was a big waste of my time and energy. Don’t waste yours, please


If you feel like something is just “off” trust your instincts and run. For the past few years, yes years, I was feeling that something was just not right about my relationship with my soon to be ex husband. I know he treated me poorly for almost 20 years but the last year was extremely bad. While he was having an affair he manipulated and lied to me even more and of course blamed me for everything. I chose to ignore all the warning signs right in front of me and pretended all was fine. Often I had this feeling that I was being played as a fool.
Looking back now I should have known. But they are so good at manipulating and crazy making we are blinded by it. Now I know the signs. Only it is 20 years a little too late . 🙁


THANK YOU SO MUCH EVERYONE FOR YOUR ADVICE I am not ignoring anyones advice and really really appreciate it, but for now I am holding on for that glimmer of hope I might but wrong. I have seen a side to him that has been pure love and affection.

Maybe he is ‘messed up’ in his head and suffers with depression or anxiety but I can’t believe he is not genuine. I am not going to be totally gullible though and I am going to make demands (come to my flat, introduce me to your family childen and mum) and if these demands are not met I will walk away no matter how painful this is going to be.

When I woke in the early hours of this morning I felt as though I couldn’t cope that my life was in a downward spiral and i didn’t know how to go back up, the only thing that puts me in a positive frame of mind at the moment is believing he is real and everything will be all right in the end


Hi Quando, I think we all know how you feel. I only hope you are making the right decision. All I can say is ALWAYS trust your instincts, now matter what you’re feeling for him. And pay attention to any red flags. Is he charming? Manipulative? Is there a discrepancy between his words and his actions? Does he see you as human or as a sex object? Just some hypothetical examples. Know what you’re worth and what you deserve. Above all, be kind to yourself.


I also thought my husband was suffering from depression and yes sometimes he showed some sort of affection. What you are telling us, there are so many warning signs. Please don’t ignore them. I have been through pure hell and back with this man and when I finally exposed him in his lies and betrayals, guess what? He left us one night, changed all bank accounts and moved on with his new victim. The first few months were so painful but once I enforced the no contact things improved for me and my son. To be thrown away like garbage hurt a lot but I know it was his so perfect exit he had planned for a long time. I should have filed for divorce the same day I found him exchanging nude picture with the other deputy woman. But I was too nice, too forgiving and too afraid. Now since I filed for divorce I can honestly say that I am proud of myself. I am a new person and nobody disrespects my son and I like that. My attorney asked me “what did you do to deserve something like that?” I had to think and I know I was a faithful, loving, caring housewife and mother who was always there for him. So no I did not deserve it but life will be better without this evilness. Good luck quando .


Quando, I have to chime in.
The biggest mistake we can make is to not listen to our gut. That is my biggest regret. Twice. Two marriages, one with a narcissist and one with a sociopath. I kept looking/digging for the good. And wasted too many years doing that and coming up empty. You said in your first letter that ‘He has never said actual mean things to me or anything horrible.” But then you shared with us that “He is insanely jealous and will ring me 50 times, until he gets an answer, he demands to know where I am, who I am with, whether I am having sex with someone else.”
He doesn’t trust you and wants to control you. That IS mean and horrible. I truly believe when a relationship is healthy and real, that there is no game playing, crazy doubts, insane jealousy or all or nothing periods of contact. You know in your heart what you have to face. That doesn’t make it easy, but you have a whole bunch of us rooting for you to make the right decision.

jenni marie

Dear Miss Donna,

Hello. I am so thankful that I came across your site. In March 2010 I reached the point of what I thought was no return. He had me so spun and practically believing that I was mentally unstable for always feeling so insecure and suspicious and jealous…etc, that I wanted to fill my tank up with gas and just keep driving until I ran out of gas and find a place to live there instead of around the corner from him. Wherever I ended up didn’t matter.
But, what if I was “over reacting” again? Maybe instead of over reacting I could somehow find a way to make the relationship better & learn how to communicate in a way he could finally understand. So, I went online to see if I could find a way to save us before I did anything stupid that would really destroy the relationship. (I hadn’t read about sociopaths yet, and I still must have thought there was SOMETHING I COULD DO to help it be better) Anyway, I was taking some quiz about how to know if we are in a healthy relationship or not and soon, with a click here and a click there I was led to LoveFraud. I have fought the Truth since that night. The Truth that he really is disordered and from what I have read, he must be a Cluster B. Most of the descriptions of the different types of Psychopathy fit him like a glove and all run together that it is overwhelming to deal with. Admittedly, I actually tried to deal with it, while all of it (his behavior) was Unbelievable, to be honest. Surreal. Like getting a dose of “Is this really happening to me?” on a daily basis. I was determined to try and work with his um, condition? Is that what they have? A condition? Maybe they need to call it an “Untreatable Condition”.
I sincerely want to thank you for wanting to find a way to help victims out here and to possibly prevent someone from becoming a victim by telling your story. You have helped me.
Reading your response means a great deal. I do need to treat him like an addiction and that is probably why I have kept contacting him after I break it off or taking him back when he just shows up after I break it off. Silly me, I know you are a real person, not just someone out there in cyberspace, but just hearing the words “treat him like an addiction” brought you right into my living room with me. (please excuse a little clutter,lol). I have no excuses left. I cannot help him. I cannot fix this. He IS an Addiction. It is My problem. I need to learn how to beat an addiction.
I Sincerely Thank you 🙂

To Kataroux,

Thank you also for the nice words as well. You’re so Sweet! 🙂 I feel a little better by knowing what to expect in the coming times because I haven’t made it passed 30 days of No Contact before, and it would be nice to have someone to talk to who has so recently separated from one of those people too. Thank you.

I’m sure that as time passes I won’t be having Mind-Blurt. What is Mind-Blurt? It’s below. ranting. me going on and on about something that makes no sense (staying with and putting up with a really mean man who “loved me” ). Only people who have been there will understand, and it is nice to talk. Sorry if I type so much. to see some of the things that I went through in words makes me sound like such a ridiculous fool but I see now that it helps me to break the cycle of abuse I was in because I don’t want to be this stomped on fool of a girl any more!

After I posted my first comment the other night, he (IT) came back two hours later that night at 2:30am. I was still awake reading LoveFraud. I shut down the computer and went outside to talk to him for 30 minutes. He complained about it being cold outside but he knew I wasn’t going to let him. I agreed to sit in his truck (with no heater) with my blanket I took out there, to talk, but that he really needs to use the time to say something that makes any sense about what is really going on…He said he didn’t know what was going on!

I blabbed “that he is a horrible boyfriend” , and he should be glad that I am not a quitter or we would have been done a long time ago before now. Of course, he had to remind me that I have broken up with him in the past and that makes me a quitter. So, Me being Me- I reminded him that when he showed up at my place after time passed before when I had broken up with him, that I gave him another chance, and another and another and so on. He stopped talking about “quitting”.
He rambled about not wanting to fight and that we should find a way to get along and learn how to communicate better and that most of our arguments were misunderstandings, blah, blah, blah. I gave him a few examples of the crap he has pulled on me and then asked him point blank “what was it about that (fill in the blank) that was a misunderstanding again?”

He asked if was cold (translate: can he come in) and I said no, and then I literally said the next thing that popped into my head… I mentioned one of his Ex’s that I recently found out he has continually taken out to breakfasts and lunches while I was at work the last three years, without ever mentioning once that he had done so, and that he really should probably try and figure out if he still has something for her because she is the one he keeps running to it seems.
He just came back with the usual, that I should just feel “secure” and “trust” him because she is just a friend now (laughable). I said a few more things about his actions that would not allow any girl to feel “secure” with him and that I will lay money on the fact that I am in no way the first girl to ever say all the things that I have felt compelled to say about how disrespectful he has been and how poorly he has treated me during the course of the realtionship right on up to that moment by telling me that it is I who needs to accept his behavior and that I need to just “put up with it”, and “trust” him and feel “secure with him”. In his plain language that really means: Put up with HIS game.
Seriously?! (I flashed back to the hour long ride home with him and his silent treatment on the last night we spent together when I told him that I was just going to start behaving like him, since his way of doing things is NO BIG DEAL and shouldn’t be any cause for me to feel bad or sad about any of it so he should accept it too and not feel bad or sad about it either). After a visit with his friends, I went dead inside and told him I would now be like him. He thought I said that I was going to find another dude. I was simply just going to hang on guy friends and go out to breakfast and lunch with them and follow them all around including into their bedrooms if that’s where they’re headed……blah blah. I was telling him that I was now going to mirror him. He didn’t like it one bit and saw it as “tit-for-tat”. Me being Me-I said “you can’t have a ‘tat’ if there wasn’t a ‘tit’! “ooh, “CLEVER” was his response. His code word for I have a valid point that he cannot argue with. I’ve been “CLEVER” two or three other times. LOL.

He said something about him thinking that we had worked everything out a week ago after the Ex’s hug thing and it was getting really cold and we should just go in and lay down and talk about this all some other time to straighten it all out which is a lie. I know that we never talk about any problem later. How would I dare bring something up a second time that made him psychotic the first time it came up? I’m not as dumb as he thinks.
I asked him how does he explain the week since then and all the nasty mean things he has said to me since then? He doesn’t remember what was said all of a sudden, but he thinks we worked it out? huh? How could we have worked it out if he doesn’t even remember what was said? I helped him remember. He hasn’t stopped nagging or antagonizing me or sliding insults between most of what he says when he’s talking and talking and talking. He’s still going to take that girl out and see other girls and not tell me or be gone to who knows where for who knows how long and all the put downs that he can’t seem to help heap onto me….when suddenly I just stopped talking. I heard myself doing nothing but criticizing him and I am sick of hearing myself do that with him because he is a sociopath. THEY DON’T CARE!

I was quiet for a few minutes when he said…. “well, I hope you are happy with spending the last 30 minutes hurting my feelings with everything you are saying”.
I said: “You Have no feelings”.
He got out of the truck and went around to let me out.
I got out.
I went inside.
He drove away.

I am going to take Miss Donna’s suggestion that I see him as an addiction. And, maybe someday I can forgive myself.

Jenni Marie

Jenni Marie,
You have arrived at the right conclusion!

jenni marie


I’m working on finding out what is wrong with me that allowed me to endure all the abuse beyond the point in time that I formally recognized it as abuse. I loved him, and what a sicko I was to think that he loved me too.
I will have to admit here, that I had arrived at the right conclusion many many many times throughout the whole twisted relationship. How do I explain staying with him? To me, it’s sickeningly simple: There is something wrong with me.
Here’s hoping that my enforcing NO CONTACT this time, truly means I have arrived at the right Conclusion. period.
In two more hours, I will have one full week of NO CONTACT. It has been easier to handle NC while I am at work. I have to stay focused and professional while dealing with my customers health issues. Once I am home though, my mind starts to WHIRL. When I say ‘Whirl’ I really mean it. IT SUCKS. I HAVE TO FIGHT TO TURN OFF MY THOUGHTS. It is a constant minute by minute struggle to turn off the tap of flashbacks and awful physiological responses my body is having to them all. Weird heart rate and the feeling that I have to somehow run away, far away, and as fast as I can, but I can’t move.
Thank you for affirming as a complete stranger that I have come to the right conclusion. What a difference it makes to hear it from someone else.
Is there a time when the flashbacks and the “story-retelling-in-my-mind” stops?

two more hours….I made it a week.

Jennie Marie

Jennie Marie,
I haven’t been on for a few days and from reading the posts,I see there has been some drama!Please don’t hesitate to take care of yourself by calling the police!No Contact can be rough at first because of the trauma bonding and oxytocin that create the addiction you feel.So you’re actually going through withdrawal.If you can get council at a local DV shelter,that helps greatly.Atleast have a friend or two that you can call when you feel weak.Find activities to keep your mind and body busy when you’re not working.It can be the gym;something creative;it’s up to you.Best wishes!


Quando, the part of your story that I immediately recognized was the ease with which he comes and goes. You said that he can disappear for days. Without even trying to guess WHY he’s gone, the fact that he is in and out of your life without the usual pain of missing you is a signal. Key in on this piece of emotional vacancy, be alert to it. Intensity alternating with empty space is the pattern I recognize from my own experience. I’m on a faulty iPhone which skips while I type, but there are countless examples of this that come to my mind. Even now that we’ve separated after many years of marriage, he can take part in a family gathering, but when he leaves he doesn’t take a second look back at me. He doesn’t miss me on an emotional level. It is the oddest thing! But this was true from day one. Believe me that the charade of a relationship can go on for years and the stage props supporting it can increase. You are still evaluating this man after 14 months. Be watchful for genuine bonding or the mere pretense of it. I hope I have added to the discussion. I wish you well!

jenni marie

Miss Donna, I found LoveFraud March 2012, not 2010

jenni marie


They’re right. Listen to your gut. SOMETHING IS Wrong. You probably noticed that something was wrong after about three or four months with him at the most. I knew after 2 or 3 months but didn’t listen to myself and denied the things I read about sociopaths one and half years into the three year relationship with him.
None of what has happened is just in your head. It is not your imagination. Is is not your fault. The sadness and anger you are feeling is real. Any happiness you get from him is short lived and probably more geared to pleasing him in some way when he is darned good and ready to get pleased.

I’m a few days No Contact as I type. I wish I could save your heart from any more pain. They cannot change their behavior even after knowing what sociopaths are, you will find that you cannot fix anything about them or expect them to care or understand what you are talking about if it sounds like you want him to be nice or to spend time with you or call you or include you…..

Miss Donna suggested that I see him as an addiction and that really hit home with me. Maybe her advice will hit home with you too. I didn’t even look at this as an addiction because I am kinda depressed and stuff right now, but I do know this: I sure don’t want any addictions that are bent on killing ‘ME’.

Trust your instincts. you are right.

Jenni Marie


Very interesting the part about not missing you. That explains why my soon to be ex husband never missed me or my son during long military deployments. He was active duty army for 22 years and often left us for a year or more. He never really missed us and always said. “Deal with it” that’s the way it is. Very coldly. I was always wondering how he was able to shut off his emotions . Now I know,he did not have any. I am also wondering if the military can turn people into narcissists or sociopaths? He was only 17 when he joined the service. I know that a lot of cops are definitely narcissistic. Well it was an extreme combination military and being a deputy . 🙁

Hi kaya48!

I chose some of your words for a post on my blog because I think they are of great significance to many people. It is your succinct illustration of disillusionment, or clear-sightedness, I have chosen; an example of losing the blinders of expectations or beliefs and seeing what actually is. Check it out:!


Thank you so much for using my statement. It is so true, he has no emotions. I just talked to my attorney and my soon to be ex and his attorney are “launching” new attacks against me. Not only did he cheat, lie, betray and leave me, now he wants to destroy me. He is threatening to make up lies so I would lose my employment and my only income to support my son and I. He was exposed again in his affairs with his co worker and the next thing we know, he wants to make up lies about me. This is not a “normal” divorce it is breaking free from the devil. After he discarded his family, we are absolutely nothing to him. Like we never existed. It was such an illusion, even him pretending to be a father. I am so thankful he cannot have any more children. Nobody deserves his evilness.

Everyone who speaks out about their experiences with psycho/sociopaths or spreads factual information about the “cluster B” personality disorders is helping others to see themselves, their relationships, their whole lives more realistically. A realistic perspective empowers us to make the best decisions for ourselves, and also, we feel stronger when we recognize that we are not alone, that what we are going through, or have survived, is not so unusual and extreme that no one will believe us if we told them about it. It helps to learn that the abuse and the dirty tricks we have been subjected to actually are standard psychopathic behaviors. It allows us to shed any guilt we may have from being mistreated or doubts about our own sanity. It gives us the confidence to redefine and set limits on unacceptable behavior. When we recognize the patterns, we also know better what to expect so that we may prepare accordingly. We can direct our energy to where it is effective instead of wasting it on an unrealistic notion; something that will never happen, no matter how hard we try.

And then there’s the bigger picture. Just think; if everyone had awareness and understanding of psychopathy, you wouldn’t have to worry about your ex causing you to lose your job. All psychopaths lie. All psychopaths do hurtful, harmful things “without any reason.” It doesn’t always “take two to tango.” The world needs to know these things. We need to tell our stories, expose the evil-doers, and gain some clout and credibility. The time and opportunity is now with the Internet as a vehicle for all who have suffered. We can make a difference—we already have. Anyone can start a blog or post comments on websites. Let’s keep the ball rolling so the next generation, at least, has the heads-up we had to survive without.

If your ex follows through with his threat, show this discussion thread to your employer! What do you think would happen?


I have posted on this forum before about a man I have known for more than 10 years. We were never married nor did we live together. It’s a long tale of push-pull, cheating, manipulating, and hurtful absences, as we live in different towns. He left me for someone else about 8 years ago and has been with her most of this time. However we kept in touch by email and the occasional phone call, as we work for the same company and saw each other a couple of times a year at meetings but often we would be out of contact for months.

After a while I considered him a friend of sorts and chalked the experience up to bad timing and poor judgment on my part. Through counseling, meditation and the support of good friends, I finally thought I was over him. I was living a good life, had met someone new, and didn’t obsess or pine over him anymore. Until, that is, I saw him a few months ago for the first time in nearly three years. I was not prepared for the reaction I had and the intensity of the emotions I felt. He seemed to feel the same and the chemistry was palpable. We spent every possible minute together and even though I knew the list of hurts and wrongdoings from the past, I was helpless to put up boundaries. I didn’t want to! The physical attraction was so strong and I succumbed like we had never been apart.

He told me he regretted leaving me and that we were obviously destined to be together. A few days of this and I was on Cloud Nine and ready to go back and try again, thinking maybe I had misjudged him years before and should give him another chance.
Then the walls caved in. Apparently he is still with the other woman and has no plans to leave her at this time. When the meeting ended he looked as if he could cry when saying goodbye and asked me if I would get together again in a “couple of months.” But what about her, I asked? He said they have no future but he was having trouble ending it. What!? I was stunned, felt played and used, and returned home in a state of shock, wondering how I could have been so stupid and foolish.

He called a few times to say how much fun he had with me, then he stopped calling altogether. The only contact now is the occasional, almost platonic-sounding text. I keep blocking his number then can’t stand it and unblock it because I don’t want to miss his calls or texts.

What is wrong with me? How could I go there again and why did I let him in? I feel like I have been set back years and have to restart my recovery all over again. I know he is definitely a narcissist or sociopath – or both. He seems to have very little emotion or empathy unless it concerns himself. For days I have been reading articles and trying to figure out why I allowed myself to be duped once again. Why is it so hard to let go?


“What is wrong with me?” becomes the recurrent question as i analyze my past to understand this very present question. Why can’t I divorce him? Why does divorce cause this tearing pain within? My relationship with him was a series of misery and then comfort because we were finally at peace, usually because I had adapted to some concession. I am not a success story. The children are divided or have distanced themselves. I work to live independently and he holds two children, my youngest son and a grandchild as if hostage. He knows that as long as he has them under his roof, I am not far away. Thanksgiving is coming. It seems that I’m getting worse instead of better. I set my foot down about weekly dinners and it came at a personal price. It was as though I had formally declared war. A verbal campaign was launched against me mixed with declarations of his undying love. He bought himself a wedding ring, an exact duplicate of my son’s wedding ring, although he hasn’t worn a ring in over 34 years. He is forced to move in six weeks and as usual, no preparations on his part are being made. I hope he is finally forced back to his mother’s home in Texas, far from me. But I know he will not let go that easily. I know I’m not really asking a question that anyone can answer. I’m only documenting how much harder it is to leave, no less have No Contact, if you stay in a relationship with a sociopath for too long.


BackAgain and Jenni Marie, I feel for you guys. And I understand the questions you ask and the hard progress that you make. It’s war, within and without. Your posts prompted my post. — Cherith

jenni marie

he’s here! It’s 30 minutes away from being that week of NC I was going to have. He’s knocking…. I said through the door that I don’t want to see him anymore and that he needs to go away, but he sat down out there in the patio and keeps knocking….. this is my test. I told him ONCE. he keeps knocking….. I want to tell him again to go away, but everything I read says to tell him ONCE….. what do I do if he keeps knocking…… Now he went around to the front and is knocking on the front door… I’m not going to give him the satisfaction of saying ANYTHING ELSE to him…. I can’t call the police because he will make my life hell. He does some things that are still questionably legal. I think I may get the last word by saying nothing at all right now… this is all happening as I type.. HE ALWAYS COMES BACK WHEN I BREAK IT OFF! IT’S HIS STUPID GAME. now he is at the back door again….. okay I will tell him one more time to go away…..

jenni marie

He’s still out there. He sat down on the chair. He’s done this before. He talks loud enough for me to hear him. One time he said “I should have taken all those girls phone numbers when they offered them to me, but I couldn’t take them because I suppoedly had some ‘great’ girlfriend…some great girlfriend, she won’t even open the door to me”

I don’t want to look at him. He’s still out there. He must have parked his truck around the corner of the parking lot again because I didn’t hear it pull up. He’s knocking again. I’m ignoring it again.


First thing I thought was OMG! Jennie, you are being harassed. He’s in your space and doesn’t belong there. Don’t open the door or speak to him. But face this SOB down and call the police. He has to know you mean this or it will never end. I’m praying for you, Jennie.


Jennie, I’m right here praying and waiting to hear from you. You can do this! Have courage.
Time to face down “hell”, but not alone. Get help.

jenni marie

it’s 2:53am. he finally left. he left a note on the gate, written on the back of an old receipt. It says:


does that make any sense to anyone out there? makes none to me.
I think I can go to bed now that he is gone. He doesn’t know it, but after he stopped knocking for a while, I went out into the patio and looked in the parking lot and saw his truck was still there so I went back inside real quick. Then I heard it start and so I went outside to listen to the engine to make sure he was really leaving. He drove out of the complex and went around and parked on the street on one side of my complex that has single family homes across the street. He parked and I saw him walk into the complex toward my patio so I went inside again and turned off all the lights and peaked out the blinds. He didn’t go into the patio so I went over to the front door and peaked out the spy hole and saw him walk past my apartment and out the breezeway into the parking lot again. I went around to the back door and by then he must have stuck that note up. I went outside and listened for his truck and sure enough, I heard it start up and drive off, so I listened some more to make sure he didn’t come back into the complex and so far he hasn’t.


He’ll show up again.

People, I have a confession. I completely messed up. We were split up near the end of August. He had been flirting with this 20 something friend of his friend for months, ever since he found out that his good buddy liked the girl and wanted to be introduced to her. Not to be outdone, my ‘guy’ had to step in the way of his friend ‘getting the girl instead of him’. Disgusting, but true and I knew it. It’s how he is. He has to win and is not ashamed to tell his friends ‘thanks for letting me win’. He had been disappearing to ‘help’ this girls brother supposedly. All ‘innocent’. I don’t want to really think about how sad and jealous and furious I was when I started to put two and two together about all that. Those are the feelings that I am trying to escape from to this day anyway, so what’s the point of telling you all how sucky it all felt/feels. You know.

I was finally so hurt (I thought) that all I wanted to do was get away from him. I told him again that I just couldn’t deal with his lifestyle and the way he treated me anymore and we stopped seeing each other.

He said it was my fault for over reacting to everything anyway and he couldn’t deal with that anymore. It was with heartfelt truth when I told him that if he stays with me he needs to expect that I will never be a quiet mouse and I will never shut-up about any wrongdoing toward me by anyone or toward anyone else and he knows it. We both agree that I am not afraid to point out the BS on anything including what he says. (which of course makes me an even tougher challenge for him to conquer control over, because I am not easily impressed and question every thing). If only I could listen to my own advice, lol.

I already knew that he would ‘come back’ to me and ‘show up’ whenever he felt like it, so I decided that I would have to get a new place to live so he couldn’t just show up and I wouldn’t be living in the constant state of anxiety, wondering when he was going to show up. So I got a new apt in the same complex with the new car I got that he wouldn’t recognize. I hoped.

He showed up at the old apartment on the last day I was even going to be there. I was cleaning a few last things for my move out inspection and it had been two weeks since I had seen him and I guess I just wasn’t expecting him to show up during day light hours with the sun still shining, but he did. At first he tried to play off finding out that I was moving as something that hurt his feelings. When I didn’t seem to feel sorry for him, he got angry and started the ‘cock of the walk’ thing that he does while saying mean and hurtful things about me in the process and leaning over me and glaring at me with cold dark eyes. He’s 6’3″ 230lbs and I’m 5’5″ 104lbs. I can’t explain it but when he does that it feels like he is going to knock me down and eat my guts out.

Four days after that, I found myself driving up to his cabin. He was there with friends. That one girl showed up with her brother after I got there to pick up something that my ex had accidentally taken away from her house.

He gave me a few minutes to talk to him away from the crowd and I told him that I just wanted him to know that I really loved him and that I wanted him to know that he needs to stop going around telling girls that he loves them when it’s not true at all and it’s okay if he likes to run around and play, but it’s not okay when he’s running around and playing on someone’s heart.
That night was my 50th birthday.

I went home after it was clear that he wasn’t going to let me talk to him privately any more that night. He wanted me to join the party because after all, it was my birthday. His friends were all nice to me, and I’m sure they have no idea what I have been going through with him.

Well, within a few days after that night, I answered his phone calls and within a few more days we were walking into my new place together as if to begin anew.

See, if only I had kept NO CONTACT after I moved then I would not have gone through the last two months of the grandest show of ‘Discarding’ you have ever seen. It was so intense that it was more obvious than before that he was not only not making any effort to take responsibility for his actions, but he was increasing the behavior that I despised so much, until last week at his friends house, when my whole body shook and I knew, deep inside me that I was dead and all I felt with him was sadness and insecurity. He sucked all the joy out of me and I couldn’t breathe.

Now I am going to have to find another place to live again. But this time, I have blocked his number so he can’t call me and I am going to move in a way that he won’t know and can’t show up during the cleaning process. My brother is going to help me quietly disappear.

How dare I question why I am so afraid he’ll show up when it is me who brought him home to my new place? If that is not crazy then what it? Is this how they all operate? Do they have such a hold on us that we really do end up feeling like we must be crazy? I know I am not, but come on, why did I tell him about my new place!!!!!

jenni marie


no one has ever prayed for me before, thank you for trying to help me


Well done, Jenni, you held him off and he went away.

Chances are, all you have to do is keep on doing the same thing if he tries it again. With any luck, eventually he’ll give up.

The message he sent is confusing because it’s deliberately self-contradictory, but the reference to “heaven” sounds like a veiled threat. I strongly advise keeping that note, just in case you need to present evidence of harassment at any time in the future.

If he escalates to anything nastier, you shouldn’t be afraid to call the police and get him removed. If he does “make your life hell,” hey, that’s what he’s doing anyway, so what do you have to lose by calling in help? But if you can wear him down and get him to give up without all that extra fuss, just by ignoring him, so much the better.

I’m glad to hear you say you’re “not easily impressed and question every thing.” I was remarking the other day on another thread that too many people are just plain gullible. They believe anything anyone tells them instead of challenging it when it seems dubious. I’m not surprised you’ve caught this guy out in a lot of BS.

I was especially struck by the way he was going after this 20-something girl simply because his buddy liked her. He sounds like the kind of asshole whose idea of “entertainment” is messing other people’s lives up. That’s the last kind of person anyone would want for a partner, so you’re well rid of him.


Glad you’re alright, Jenni. Yes, you’ve been prayed for.

jenni marie

I have to laugh. I woke up at 10am and I thought I was late for work and scrambled out of bed to try and get ready to show up 2 hours late for work….. I don’t work on Sundays, hahaha.

I peeked out the back slider door to see if his note was still stuck to the gate, and guess what? It is now stuck to the slider itself with a little piece of duct tape at an almost perfect height for my eye level, with the words facing inward for me to read from inside…

He has a terminally ill friend and I wondered if maybe that friend passed away….with a smile. Otherwise where on Earth would this guy even come up with this comment? He’s not that deep. He doesn’t really care about all the friends who are gone now. He just counts them on his fingers and how they could have lived longer if they would have just done ____ (fill in the blank). sick.

That means he came back between 4am last night and now. If he knocked when he came back then I didn’t hear him, and it’s daylight now so he won’t go around to the front side because there would be too many chances for other residents to see him.

Last night was intense. This morning I am fighting my thoughts of feeling sorry for him. Isn’t this the sickest thing you can think of? Feeling sorry for THEM?!

Would it be wrong for me to look at this NO CONTACT thing I am trying to enforce as a survival game? Like him, I like to win too, but I like to play by the rules. Is NO CONTACT the only rule for dealing with sociopaths to get them to stay away from us? I am confused by him, because he keeps coming back around. If I am such a “B###H” and “Too stupid to be his girlfriend”….why would he even come around in the first place…..

He and his whole life is an oxymoronic trip down weirdo lane.

I’ve decided to take the detour and get off weirdo lane.

I guess later today I will stop feeling sorry for him as soon as I start thinking about all the things he did to me that weren’t very nice.

Yes, he enjoys making others lives miserable at every chance. He is also one of those “FRENEMYS” who sneaks in an insult between a half-ass compliment. Like, “that color shirt looks a lot better on you than the shirt you were wearing the other day that washed your complexion out”.


Jennie Marie

Any comment about going to heaven has morbid connotations”


Jennie Marie,
We often become so embroiled in our relationships with these very dark people that we can’t see straight anymore. Distance yourself immediately so you can start healing.
You need to have one good friend that can talk you down every time you THINK you need to see or speak to him. He is giving you all kinds of warning signals that this connection you have to him will end VERY BADLY.
If you are feeling sorry for him then that just proves what a great job he is doing manipulating you. Sometimes in life we have to face the fact that we will never be able to ‘make a thoroughbred out of a jackass.’

That’s a great expression! See what I made out of it:

jenni marie

Sunday morning and he was still parked in my lot. I pretended not to see him, but I saw him pull away, and as I pulled out onto the street I saw him go out one of the complex driveways, headed toward his house. I got gas across the street, then drove past his house to make sure his truck was there and it was, so I felt like I could go to my regular coffee place and he wouldn’t show up in his truck like he has done before during prior break ups.

WRONG. He had left his truck in his driveway and walked over to the coffee shop. I’m less than a mile from him and the coffee house is right down the street from him.

While I was in the drive-thru, he walked up to my drivers side window and asked if there was any chance that I would want to talk to him today. I said I don’t think so. He pointed over there and said he would just wait over there if I decided to talk to him, but I said I didn’t think I had anything to say to him. He then asked if I would give him a ride home.

I know at this point it was 12:02pm from the sticker receipt thing on my cup. I drove the .2 mile to his house and parked out front. He had a huge thick down jacket on and he said he was hot on the sun, so I backed up into the shade of the tree by his mailbox.

I thought he would get out, as I WAS giving him a ride home, but we ended up sitting there, talking about everything else in the world except for OUR PROBLEMS. FOR TWO HOURS! I heard myself tell him once that he is a grumpy pill, pissy, complainy negative kind of person but that is beside the point.

He finally got out when the topic turned to auto body repair and we got out to look at my car. I mentioned that this new car would be expensive to repair if it got hit on the rear panels, blah blah blah, then he said that he better call his friend ‘R’ whose dog just died so he can make the plans to help bury him on the guys property. hardpan. hard to dig in…..blah blah blah.

I left. I didn’t see him the rest of the day sunday. I didn’t mention the note he left on my door about I WISH YOU THE BEST OF WISHES AND I HOPE YOU GO TO HEAVEN WITH A SMILE and neither did he.

Today, I am having fake jealousy feelings because I know him so well that he is probably visiting one of his ‘girls’. and if I were with him, later on I would hear some lie about where he really was today…..

He kind of used the pity thing by asking for a ride, didn’t he.

Jenni Marie,
The wonderful thing about keeping No Contact is that YOU ARE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF YOUR LIFE—THEY LOSE THAT CONTROL!

So your ex is “creative” in finding ways to break NC.GET CREATIVE YOURSELF!Whenever you go thru a drive-thru,keep your doors locked and all windows up except yours.BTW,I’d find another coffee shop if AT ALL possible!!! He’s banking on you going there!He knows your routine!You have to be honest with yourself.Why would you even want to go near his house?!!So change your routine in whatever ways you can,change the locks on your doors and windows.Install a security system and porch light/motion detector.Talk to your neighbors and the police.

When you mentioned that the two of you set in the car and talked for two hrs,I thought “uh-huh,that’s how they work you up!”My husband did the same thing.I did my best to be understanding and compassionate;I would often apologize when I wasn’t even at fault,hoping to ‘make peace’.Once he started talking,it would be non-stop verbal abuse,twisting my words;my motives….and my mind!!!

Obvious baiting. You knew it but you went for it. Why? I think you need to decide where you stand and stick to it.

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