Five and a half years ago I started a quest to understand sociopathy/psychopathy and antisocial behavior. Long before that, in 1981, I attended a lecture by Dr. Sarnoff Medick at USC. During that lecture, he presented the results of his research. His research on adopted children indicates that antisocial behavior has a strong measurable genetic basis. His studies did not single out anyone “diagnosed” a sociopath/psychopath they only examined antisocial behavior in parents and their biologic and adopted offspring.
Remembering these studies, I read them again and found many others demonstrating the genetic basis for antisocial behavior and sociopathy/psychopathy. Also at the beginning of my quest, I read Without Conscience by Dr. Robert Hare. (If you have not read it, I strongly recommend you do so.) That book teaches us about a category of people “psychopaths” who are without conscience and are antisocial. According to Without Conscience, psychopathy can only be diagnosed by professionals who using the PCL-R find a person scores over a certain cut-off. That book also makes reference to the genetic basis for “psychopathy.”
Questions about antisocial behavior, sociopaths and psychopaths
Reading all this material, I immediately questioned if psychopaths are a separate category of antisocial people. Many experts say “psychopaths” represent 1% of the general population and 25% of the prison population. I also wondered what the other 75% of the prison population would be considered. To my dismay I found several studies showing that many maximum security, very antisocial and violent criminals would not be considered “psychopaths” according to the PCL-R.
Three things about the research reports troubled me then, and also now. First of all what good is it to tell people there are a category of dangerous “psychopaths” out there and then in the next sentence to say that only trained professionals can tell who “they” are? Second of all, there are many very antisocial and violent individuals who “professionals” say are not “psychopaths.” In fact, studies of pedophiles indicate they are less likely to be “psychopaths” than other sexual offenders. What? Excuse me? Thirdly, while saying psychopathy is genetic, scientists imply that it is 100% genetic and that is simply not true. No study has found the disorder is 100% genetic.
These 3 issues lead me to focus on antisocial behavior again as opposed to a specific category of people, psychopaths or sociopaths. If we focus on antisocial behavior we can clearly identify people who commit a large number of antisocial acts. For these people harming others has become a way of life and is not something they do only occasionally. It does not take a professional to identify antisocial behavior or harm.
The focus should be first on antisocial behavior, then the personality traits of those who show a lot of it
Many experts agree with the idea that our focus should be on antisocial behavior first, then we should try to understand what characteristics very antisocial people have in common. In their book The Psychology of Criminal Conduct, Drs. Andrews and Bonta state, “A general Antisocial Personality Pattern may be more relevant than psychopathological models of antisocial personality. If we limit ourselves to the personality traits and behavioral patterns of highly antisocial persons, then we have little need for concepts such as APD (sociopathy) and Psychopathy.”
Dr. Hare also states in a recent paper, “In any case, the use of a threshold or cut score for “diagnosing” psychopathy is problematical, given recent taxometric evidence that the PCL-R (Guay, Ruscio, Knight, & Hare, 2007) and its derivatives (Edens, Marcus, Lilienfeld, & Poythress, 2006; Walters et al., 2007) measure a dimensional construct. Cut scores are useful for communication among researchers, but of necessity are somewhat arbitrary when used for diagnostic purposes. The real issue is not how difficult it may be to reach a given “threshold” but how variations in the psychopathy dimensions relate to variables of interest, including normal range personality processes (Hare & Neumann, 2008; Lynam & Widiger, 2007).
In other words, in his scientific writings, Dr. Hare says that the best use of the PCL-R is to describe the personality traits of people we have otherwise categorized. Using it to “diagnose” psychopathy is “problematical.”
Where do we go from here and is sociopathy/psychopathy still a relevant concept?
Sociopathy (antisocial behavior) and psychopathy, or the cluster of personality traits that those with antisocial behavior have, are still very important to understand. First most people do not habitually engage in harmful antisocial behavior. It is important for us to understand all the factors, from personality to social circumstance that contribute to habitual antisocial behavior, or sociopathy.
Psychopathy represents a cluster of personality traits that are commonly found in very antisocial people (sociopaths). There is no cut-off score for determining “a psychopath.” It is more correct to say that high scores on measures of psychopathy indicate the presence of psychopathic personality traits to an extreme degree.
Let’s go ahead and call a spade a spade and categorize sociopaths
Is there any way to categorize sociopaths? Yes I say there is. There are distinct categories that people who are very psychopathic fall into, obvious examples include: con artists, rapists, child molesters and career criminals. Less obvious examples include: pathologic liars, unscrupulous sales people, and the perpetrators of domestic violence.
Your basic bad relationship choice
I also want to point out that most individuals who are your basic “bad relationship choice” are more psychopathic than the average person. So it is OK to call them psychopaths for the sake of convenience. The category, “bad relationship choice” includes people who repeatedly cheat on their mates, lie to them, and manipulate them. Hear me if your lover cheats on you, lies to you all the time, tries to destroy your reputation, takes your money, manipulates you and/or tries to control you, he or she is very psychopathic. That is not normal behavior. People who love one another are supposed to take special care of each other. Get away from that psychopath now before you are destroyed!
The good news
Did you make a “bad relationship choice”? Do you know a pathological liar? If you answer yes to these questions you do not need me or any specially trained expert to tell you the person you know is very psychopathic- a psychopath and a sociopath. If you want to review the set of personality traits that pathological liars, “bad relationship choices,” con artists, rapists, pedophiles, and career criminals have in common, see What is a sociopath? and Dr. Robert Hare’s symptoms of psychopaths. Use the list of personality traits to decide for yourself just how psychopathic that person you know is.
Star: I think that’s what the blog is for…to let loose. I’m not afraid to be “politically correct.” I exercise my right of “Freedom of Speech.” (hope i don’t offend someone!!)
I’m so jealous. I don’t think I can afford to go to NYC in December (the new furnace I got yesterday was my next 2 years’ worth of vacations!). In fact, can’t one of you give me a few thousand to go, and I promise to pay it back………ha ha ha Gotcha. Don’t worry, I’m not a P.
See how you all are, I am gone for one day and you plan a party behind my back – remember I am going to make the cake? Stargazer – your comment about euthanasia crack’s me up. But if it were not against the law to kill there would be a whole lot of dead men… But it would get them out of their misery – not us -we would feel guilty and remorseful sitting behind those bars. So let’s hope they live to be 150 because ONLY death will get them out of their miserable live’s. Ok I new him five years – he lived with me 3 years. It has been 6 month’s no contact. I am over the worst of the anxiety, depression, shock, hurt but I feel like I am still wounded inside. Like someone that was in a terrible accident and it is taking months , years to recover and all I can do is think of the accident. And think of who caused the accident and what I could of/should of done to avoid it. But I didn’t and I am to blame because I let it happen. And I knew he was an accident waiting to happen from the beginning and If I could just get him out of my home and my life it would all be ok. Well duh guess what – now i am left with this big empty feeling of loss – even tho I know i won. I am a good person – he is not. Why do I still have this anticipation of him driving down my driveway and making everything right when I know he wont or cant? What is their left to make me understand that he was just an illusion? His physical presence was not an illusion. His pain that I tried to fix was not an illusion. The pity he used to decieve me was real. I pray for the day that I will have one fuckin moment in my life that his memory is not in my head with everything else that my brain is trying to do to function normaly. If he did drive down my driveway tonite and if I did take him back, I would have to hide him from everyone, just like the criminal he is. What does this say about me? That I miss and would even consider taking back someone who physically harmed me? Trashed my house? Stole from me? Lied and cheated. It hurt’s to deal with the truth that these men and women never really loved us? That can’t be possible – why does a heart break when it looses something evil? just thinking out loud…..
Hey Henry: I love chocolate (LOL) if you are making the cake.
You will get over him … when you get involved with a real person in your life and love that person. Then it will be, EX who? For now, keep working on what you want to do in your life.
Peace, and piece of cake, please.
OK Henry – 101 on the thought process here …. we hurt because we thought they were just as real as us. Period.
You know, henry, there is something so seductive about these types. They just get right into our very souls and we fall so hard. I cannot remember falling as hard for other guys I’ve dated. I made a list last year of all the qualities I wanted in a guy. There were about 30 qualities on the list. Don’t you know, the P has every single one of these qualities? Ironically, I forgot to put “isn’t married” and “not psycho” on the list. That would have been really helpful, since obviously God was listening and gave me someone with the other 30 qualities! Do you think if I added those 2 things, God would say “I’m sorry, but 32 requirements is just too many. Two of them have to go.”?
Promise me if he ever shows up at your door, you will not go back!
Hi Henry: I think of it like this and it snaps me into reality and all the sudden the hurt feelings go away. I think to myself, what if he came back, told me he changed, how much he was sorry and how much he realized he loved me. I thought about that and my feeling was..uhm..no. I’d never ever forget what he did. I don’t think I could even forgive…and I couldn’t trust that all that blah blah blah was sincere. I would act like a maniac..checking his cell everynight, escorting him everywhere he went, always wondering if he’ll do it again. Being with him again would be digging my own grave.
Everyone heals within their own time. I am truly amazed that it only took me 4 months. When I kicked him out in May he went to live with the OW. I was devastated…because he had cut me off from my friends and family and controlled where I worked, etc. When he left, I was like, gee whiz, what am I supposed to wear? I started thinking, how much longer should I stay at this job? I started thinking about me…me..me and less of him..him..him. I remember the first week. I stayed in my bed with the lights off all day. I started smoking cigarettes after i’d quit for 10 years. I was fat because i was battered so much i stopped taking care of me. I used to walk alot and had an awesome body. .so I started walking again. I started thinking, what the hell happened to me? My life was about him and I forgot about me!! I used to go to music school for guitar…he squashed that…so now I am playing again. It’s like revenge. Taking me back is like revenge.
Henry: Can I have a slice of sweet revenge cake?
Hi Wini! It will be a cake made of rainbow’s and smile’s, I guess I can add chocalate that!!! Thanks for the response Wini, I am working on me – just like we all need to do, had to do. STARGAZER he won’t be back – he doesn’t want to come back. Sometimes reality suck’s – but I do remind my self that the truth will set us free.
Stargazer: Seduction is what they do. They practice their entire lives what works with people and what doesn’t. Oh, mom or dad are both mad at me for something … I can’t feel what it is, but I’m in trouble … so, can’t do that any more. Oh, brother and sis are mad at me for this … what it is, I can’t feel what it is that they are pulling their hairs out about … but I’ll deep six this. Then it’s off to school … and they figured out they’d rather not be in the principals office all the time for getting caught at something … couldn’t feel that either, but knew they had to can that idea. Next, first girlfriend slaps him in the face. Can’t grab her. Oh, years later after age 18, now I can grab a woman. What happened at 13 is now acceptable? Oh, well. I can do certain things and other things I can’t do. By the time they meet us, they are well refined oiled machines. So you wonder why you fell so hard? They are not idiots, they watch the same movies as us … except when we are analyzing what we like or disliked, how the movie affected our emotions, they are analyzing our reactions. Not us, specifically … others that were in their lives (platonic and romantic relationships). That’s how they survive living within the rules and regulations of society. Figuring out what does and doesn’t work. They have NO BREAKS. Emotions are our breaks in life folks. Imagine viewing the world from your intellect only? How boring. And that’s what they think of the world … how boring. It’s all the same to them. Our emotions is what makes life worth living for us.
Peace.
Dear Henry,
Well, this is the third night I am sleeping in my house again, after I left the first of June 2007, almost 16 months, and I am just now getting comfortable enough to stay in my house instead of the RV. It still does “feel odd” to have all this ROOM around me instead of being in my “cozy little cave”–I’m still putting things away and knocking down cob webs—I don’t know where all these cob webs come from, I haven’t seen a SINGLE COB in the house, but they are in every corner near the ceiling.
I knew I would eventually come “home” and feel comfortable at “home” and I am starting to, but it has been a long road, Henry. I’ve been living back at the farm since before Christmas last year, so what is it now, nearly October?
Just like I never fully understood why after the aircraft crash I couldn’t bring myself to listen to the messages on the answering machine for months. Finally I started to get where I could. PTSD does some weird stuff to you, I know, but why I didn’t feel safe in the house I’m not quite sure, but I guess in the subconscious I must have felt like I wasn’t safe in the house. The last month I stayed here in May of 2007 I WASN’T safe here.
Logically I think I am pretty safe, and son D and I don’t take any chances–we keep our little “friends” under our pillows and I have a yapping dog in the house that lets us know if there is anyone coming around. His hearing is outstanding too. So I do think we are safe here–at least my logical mind knows that even if my gut still thinks we might not be, but I am comfortable here now in moving back in. (even if it is more to clean!)
So I have quit my procrastinating, and started to do the things I know I need to do, even if I really don’t want to do them, but over all I am doing better, and “making” myself do what I know I need to do is giving me a feeling of strength and that I am TAKING back my CONTROL over my environment. I mean, really, HOW much SENSE does it make for me to live BESIDE my house in the RV instead of move back into the house? My son D moved back into the house months ago.
Henry, over the 6 months I have blogged with you, you have MADE REMARKABLE PROGRESS from when you first came on here, in a “short” time—you are doing GREAT! Sure you’re not yet where you want to be, but none of us are able to do it as fast as WE WOULD LIKE. Being patient is the hardest part, I think, it sure was for me. Now I am pushing myself a little harder, but all the pushing in the world wouldn’t have helped when I was “NUTS!” I may still not be completely “sane” but I’m not BABBLING any more. LOL Hang on, Bro, you are doing wonderfully!