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By September 22, 2008 84 Comments Read More →

LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: How can we deal with the sociopathic ex-wife?

Lovefraud recently received e-mail from a woman whose new husband was previously married to a sociopath, with whom he had two children. Two weeks before his divorce was final, the sociopath charmed him into sex and got pregnant again. Here’s what is going on now:

She uses the kids as pawns. She molested her son, he told his therapist (at 4 years old). Drew pictures of her vagina, doesn’t like hair in his mouth, wet the bed, the whole nine yards. She got out of it. We’ve been in custody hearings for a year and a half. The judge feels SORRY FOR HER!!!

My husband is a good man. She is Satan in human form. She’s a constant thorn in my side. My husband is good at dealing with her now. He knows how to work things to where she doesn’t get information.

She’s been married twice since the divorce, both marriages lasting no more than 7 weeks. We even had psychological evaluations done, which was 34 pages of “she has Borderline Personality Disorder, and she shouldn’t be alone with the kids.” The judge hasn’t seen this info yet. She keeps weaseling out of trial. She bleeds us dry in hearings that go nowhere. She signs agreements, doesn’t honor them and we go to contempt hearings where she’s reprimanded, that’s all.

She “gave” us the kids when she “attempted” suicide in July (when husband #3 left). She just did that to keep her parents happy, since she needs them to pay her bills. I’ve been caring for all three kids, on top of my three (one being 2 months old) this whole time, and she wants child support!!!

Then she demands the kids–you know, her possessions. So we go back to court for emergency custody. She whines to the judge about not having a lawyer (her parents finally stopped paying her bills), and it gets set for two weeks later. On, and on, and on. There’s so much more to the story, I can’t even explain it all. Not to mention what she’s doing to her kids emotionally. They hate me every time they come back to us. Low on sleep, whiny, etc.

I just don’t know what to do. How to deal with her. Help, please!

Document everything

As this reader has learned, sociopaths are proficient at manipulating the legal system. My basic advice is to keep careful records of everything that happens. Write the details of every incident in a calendar or diary kept just for that purpose. Document everything. Save all voice mails and e-mails. This reader may even want to videotape the child exchanges. The idea is to build a case against the woman, to eventually get her out of your lives.

But how does this family cope with the sociopath now, while she still has access to the kids?

What’s your advice?

Stories like these—and I’ve heard lots of them—tear my heart out. One of my future goals for Lovefraud is to offer educational seminars to family court judges and others involved in these cases so that they learn to recognize the games sociopathic parents play, and how damaging these predators are to children. Unfortunately, we’re not there yet.

Right now, the only resources we have to offer are the experiences of other Lovefraud readers who are, or have been, coping with similar situations. So what advice do you have? How do you deal with the sociopathic ex?

Please post your suggestions.


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84 Comments on "LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: How can we deal with the sociopathic ex-wife?"

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I FEEL YOUR PAIN,
YOU ASKED FOR ADVICE AND YOUR NOT GOING TO LIKE IT.
YOU PICKED HIM AND NOW YOUR COMPLAINING? IT’S YOUR LIFE TOO. SO EITHER LEAVE HIM OR PUT UP WITH IT. YOUR NOT GOING TO WIN AGAINST HER. AND BECAUSE HE HAS KIDS WITH HER THE NO CONTACT WON’T WORK. I SAY GET HELP FOR THE KIDS AND YOUSELF.
OR MAYBE HE’S NOT THE PRINCE CHARMING YOU DESERVE.
MOVE ON IT’S NOT YOUR PROBLEM.

This kind of situation is the type of situation that is a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” type of thing that drives people “crazy”—there seems to be no solution that works. No good solution possible.

Accepting that there may be no good solution is I think a first step.

Then, “just do the best you can with the circumstances” that you have, realizing that the outcome is not going to be ideal.

Donna’s advice to DOCUMENT everything is good advice, and I would also recommend therapy for YOU and your HUSBAND for the strength it will give you, and possibly help with accepting a situation that is unacceptable.

If this woman is indeed BPD, there is a chance she may get herself into trouble or kill herself, or that you will actually get the kids from her and her out of your life, but even that will be a stress, I know, as she has and continues to damage the children, so they will come with a big set of problems.

I pray for you and for every man and woman in this situation, and you are NOT alone in this, there are thousands of others in this country in exactly the same situations. I also pray for the children, who have no control over their lives and are tossed to and frow. Pray for the wisdom to be able to change what you can and accept what you can’t change and to know the difference. (((hugs))))

My x sp still calls and hangs up she sends bogus pictures of her in Kona that are old photos, saying she is there, the funny thing is i saw these photo’s months ago, she has been a fraud from day one. Abusive mentaly and physicaly, she dates many low class men and still has a bed buddy that is in his 60’s that swore up and down he did not want to have anything to do with her, he even met with me and my ex girl friend whom he tried to date on Match. These people prey on loving caring people like us, they have no remorse, they don’t know what it is to make love to someone and spend the rest of there lives with them, all they do is destroy and blame everyone else and say they look at us as the ones with problems. The best advice i can give is no contact, forgive yourself for falling in love with a fraud.

I am heart sick for you and all of the children involved here. I think the advice about seeking family therapy is ESSENTIAL at this point. Remember that you want a good psychologist because most psychiatrists are for prescribing medication ( I believe). If you don’t have the money call a legal aide office in your area and they can give you names of people who will scale the fees to what you can afford. Your husband must be beside himself also over what she has done and is doing to these babies. Like OxDrover I will also pray for you and your family. The little boys claims need to be documented by a therapist and the police if you can get the police to do a report. Please have mercy and patience towards these children whom you say hate you everytime they come back to your home and keep in mind their mother may be blaming you and fueling that anger in the children. That they are showing you their emotions suggests to me they are somewhat comfortable in some stability they get from you. Work with that and tell them you understand their desire to be with their mom, but sometimes it is better to be at dads when mom has some problems to work through. Count off all the people who love them (grandparents, cousins, brothers, sisters, you and their dad). Make your home a place of peace and safety for them- emotionally and physically- and these children will begin to open up more to you as they feel safer. It must be very difficult for you to have the children spun back on you when they are angry and hurting because they will act out as children do. Don’t play into her hands as the bad guy/evil step- parent. Of course the children are going to be angry at you and you are going to be ticked at their attitude and behavior towards you. Your response to these children is crucial and if she can manipulate the situation where you look and act as the heavy, it makes her look all the better. A wise, loving, caring woman would want to be on a friendly basis with her ex’s new spouse especially for the purpose of that spouse to build a healthy bond with her children and enhance their life. The more people to love a child..the better. So, my unsolicited advice is to keep in mind that the relationship you are going to build with these children is no thanks to her. Her manipulation of feeding hatred into her children towards you is a game you can stop her dead in her tracks at. Watch her “play and lose”, as you bond with them instead of reject them which would serve her purposes in hanging onto them and continuing the abuse. Love and kindness trumps all in the end and you will have blessings down the road when these children thank you for caring for them and turning their lives around. There are wonderful therapists on here and plenty of bright people with experience to walk through this with you when you have questions and problems. This is a place you can come to and pour your heart out, sort the confusion, and find loving support.
Welcome, you have found a diamond sparkling in the darkness.
Kindest Regards, Julie

Taken for a ride: Yes, narcissism at it’s best. Me, myself and I … and what other people in the world?

Time for the courts to pull these bimbos and bimbettes into court and make them pay 1000s and 1000s of hours of community service until their debts … all their debts are paid off in full. Enough, is enough.

Time to flash all their photos around the country, all 50 states participate as their hearings are coming up on the docket. Do you know this person, if so, call 1-800 NON SENS and give your sworn statements of how they did damage to your life … the court calculates each and every violation … assigns a number to how many hours it will take to pay off their damage … and make them work their debts to society off.

STOP the craziness!

Peace.

What a nightmare this must be.

My advice would be to put all your energies into getting the courts to allow supervised visits only, and, if at all possible, consider moving as far away as you legally can from this woman. If she has to go through expense and effort to see these kids she will likely loose interest rather quickly.

Insist your husband and you go NC with the S. Hand off the children on visiting days in a public place if necessary.

Get counselling NOW.

Protect your own children as best you can from the emotional turmoil.

Remember that your husband cheated on you with his ex -UNPROTECTED sex no less – in the age of aids, and the ex is obviously quite promiscuos. So he put you in DANGER besides cheating. Be on guard for more breaches of trust. Remember the three strikes rule.

Be certain that your husband FULLY understands what P/S/N/’s are all about. If he continues to try to “deal” with her, count that as strike two.

Make sure you keep your own financial house in order and do not give up control of your finances, in the event that the blended family is too big a strain on all of you.

Keep very good records of visitation etc. take pictures if the kids come back bruised or unkempt, video tape them if they come back hungry. Create a paper trail.

Determine if statements from the two other exes will help your custody battles.

Make sure You don’t get stuck with dealing with the whole problem. They are your husbands children and he should take the burden of responsibility to sort out the mess.

If you can afford to, get a sitter and make sure you go out with your husband at least once a week, just the two of you. Nurture your relationship. No talking about the ex or the kids when on a date.

Find a happy thing that the combined family likes to do together and practice doing it regularly, to help everyone feel like a unit, and lesson the impact of the ex P.

Read the POwer of Now.

Read and blog and post, weep laugh and cry on Lovefraud.

Be absolutely certain that your husband is the man you think he is and deserves to be forgiven, and is worth the nightmare you are now subjected to. Think carefully about your own kids.

Remember you are not alone.

Just my 6 1/2 cents.

Wini well said, that would be so nice if that could happen, it would be nicer if they could be cured.

eyeswideshut: Well said, you forgot one word that no one is using … RAPE. And raped we were. Also a criminal offense. Is anyone out there listening????

Peace.

Taken for a ride: All we can do is pray for them. It is written in the Bible … we can’t/will never control them and vice versa … so if you get buried under what they have done instead of healing yourself, brushing yourselves off, get up again … and live your life to the fullest … they win.

Peace.

“a woman whose new husband was previously married to a sociopath……Two weeks before his divorce was final, the sociopath charmed him into sex and got pregnant again.”……..”My husband is a good man.”……”My husband is good at dealing with her now. He knows how to work things to where she doesn’t get information.”

Nowhere in this person’s post, first of all, does she indicate her husband CHEATED on her with the sociopathic ex-wife. In addition, her letter seems to indicate he is taking measures to AVOID her and keep her from interfering in their lives. She sounds as if she is HAPPY with her husband, just at a loss as to how to handle the ex’s sociopathic ex wife. I, personally, find advice telling her to question HIM and blame HIM is akin to other people blaming US for getting involved with a sociopath ourselves. Her husband is not the sociopath, the EX WIFE IS.

My first piece of advice to the poster is to IGNORE all the negative, obviously gender biased, comments about your husband. I agree with the poster who gave the advice to make a date night with your spouse as often as you can afford it, so you can nurture your relationship.

All of the advice about family counseling is good. Also, the documenting: keeping recordings of voicemails, etc. Try to keep the contact with the ex to a minimum. Don’t let her bait you into arguments. If she sees no reaction from you when she tries to bait you, she is less likely to do it.

Jen2008: We are well aware that anti-socials come in both sexes, any race, any age, all religion affiliations, nationalities … etc.

Bottom line, the person left holding the bag of crapola they left in their wake, picking up the pieces of the damage done upon them due to the antics of the other, is the victim of the deeds.

Comes to mind … the meaning of the age old raping and pillaging to name a few … mean anything?

Peace.

Yes, Wini, I know everyone on the board is aware that sociopaths come in both sexes. My point is the husband is a VICTIM of a sociopath, just like us, and I disagree with the blaming him mentality of some of the posts and find it counter productive to her finding solutions to the problem. I am also not too sure that if this woman who wrote the post was saying HER ex-husband is the sociopath who is causing problems, that she would be told HER HUSBAND should question whether SHE is a person deserving etc. and whether HER HUSBAND should consider whether it is worth staying with HER. Think about it. Thus my gender biased comment.

I don’t think it is productive to plant suggestions in this woman’s mind to have her question her marriage that she is obviously happy with, thus adding marital problems to the situation.

However, it is not my intention to cause discord on the board, so sorry if my take on it offends.

Jen2008: She’s not the only one that peeps in on this blogg to get new ideas how to nail others? There are many anti-socials blogging along with the rest of us.

Just my gutt feeling taking over … that old burning churning in my stomach.

Amen Wini, sad but true.

Taken for a ride: Yeah, cowards peeping in to learn more info on how to use and abuse. I wonder if they are getting miffed to know we didn’t lay down and crawl into a hole over the likes of them?

LOL.

I always think they just peek in and shake their heads, like people looking at sideshow freaks through the glass.. these people are just TOOOO emotional..

In response to Jen – Sometimes P marry other P’s. The info on the husband was sparse, and he did have unprotected sex with the ex. Soooooo..there would be a big red flag, if we weren’t distracted by the P ex wife NO? I am not saying her husband is a P, but I would hate to see this woman blinded by loyalty to the man and ending up shouldering most of the mess in the situation with the ex.

Also, the P’s abused kids, while innocent victims, could end up acting out to her children. She has a really unfortunate situation on her hands and needs to be SURE that her husband is not part of the problem.

Why should the husband get a free pass? Conned into cheating? Deserves watching closely at the least.
I am not gender biased, I am cheating biased.

Actually, I stand corrected. The post on the womans situation does not say that he had sex with the ex while they were together. Perhaps I made a wrong assumption. My bad.

I AM SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCE.
THE NEW WIFE NEEDS TO HAVE HER HEAD ABOUT HER AND NOT GET SUCKED INTO THE MAYHEM. IT IS NOT UP TO THE HER TO FIX THE PROBLEMS. ANOTHER RED FLAG! IF SHE IS SURE ABOUT HER HUSBAND THEN THEY NEED TO WORK TOGETHER.
IF HER HUSBAND AND SHE ARE TRULY COMMITTED TO THE MARRIAGE THEN THEY NEED TO GET HELP FROM PROFESSIONALS TOGETHER. I JUST HOPE SHE KNOWS WHAT SHE IS GETTING INTO AND THAT YOU CAN NEVER REALLY WIN AGAINST THESE PEOPLE. MY HUSBAND AND I FOUGHT FOR FIVE LONG YEARS. FINALLY GOT ALL THE KIDS LIVING WITH US AND HAPPY. MY HUSBAND HAD AN STROKE AND DIED AND THE CHILDREN HAD TO GO BACK TO THEIR MOTHER. IT ABSOLUTLY BROKE MY HEART. THERE WAS NOTHING I COULD DO. IT’S TAKEN ME YEARS TO GET OVER THAT. I WOULDN’T WISH THAT ON MY WORST ENEMY.

Hello everyone, I have been one of those peeping toms, looking for some help and reassurance in dealing with a sociopatic ex-wife, not unlike the original poster. My husband, who I have been with now for 13 years, married for 11, has a sociopathic ex. I can’t even begin to tell you what she has put me through personally, my husband, our children and especially the children that they had together. She has done nothing but make herself look like the victim, and put blame on EVERYONE around her including her children. I , Unfortunately did not have the FANTASTIC advice of inthebreach57, and eyeswideshut (although I think I read the post differently and don’t think that the man cheated on her and may not have even been with her when he went back to his wife for the night) as I think those words are the words to live by in this type of situation. It’s all you can do to keep you sanity as you start to wonder what you are doing that is causing all of this maddness in your life. How can I change this situation and how did I wind up in this, were two of my most frequent questions to myself. The fact is, you cannot control someone elses’ behaviour, and for me it is all I can do to keep this woman from completely destroying everything I hold dear. She left, she accused, she used the system over and over again, and she used her children to get what she wanted , not caring who or how she would impact everyone else’s lives. It’s a game to her, and she certainly doesn’t care who she hurts in the process.
I didn’t sign up for the sociopath side of this, I knew there would be problems as there are in any blended family, but adding a sociopath in the mix certainly livens things up. Not for the better. But for me to walk away from my husband because he was blindsided by his first wife? Not in this lifetime. He was the victim here, not her. He has the right to get on with his life, and I have the privledge to be standing by him through it all. We have been through thick and thin together because of this woman for this long, and she has no intention of letting up any time soon. We are at the point of waiting for the children to all hit the ripe old age of 19, so we can officially say that he does not ever need to deal with her again. Sad. It should never have to be this way. yes, there will be Graduations from university, and marriages, that we will have to be in the same room with her, but that is as far as it will have to go.
To the original poster, please, do all that you can to get that woman away from those children. If she is sexually abusive, call the police. That has to be dealt with immediately. I have no idea where everyone is from and what the laws are in your area, but that is a drop dead dealbreaker. End it now. But please remember, don’t lose who you are to this situation or this woman. It will ruin you. ((huge hugs for caring so much))
Ps, I didn’t read anywhere in the original post that the poster was with this man when he went back to his wife for the night 2 weeks before the papers were signed..sounds like he was just sucked in to the drama hoping he could change things.. I may be wrong..

Talk about a unsolvable problem, talk about being between a rock and a hard place. This circumstances has it all plus more….

Being a true and faithful believer in NC that works time and time again. But when dealing with children how oh how does one deal with that? Even if a sociopath takes a child from us and successfully “runs and hides” with said child. Still this too must be dealt with sooner or later. Really there are no easy answers here. I do know that our court system MUST acknowledge and deal with these sociopathic people differently. Our court officials MUST stop allowing these people to run our court system into the ground and then be allow to manipulate it as well. My question is when oh when is our court system court officials and judges going to wake up and see this as a problem? Really our judges act more like “cops” on the beat when he comes to dealing with a sociopath in court! In short they (court officials) don’t have a clue what they are dealing with!!!!

So sorry, I wish I could help but truthfully I only have more questions then answers…

kat_o_nine_tales

I have to agree with you that if they do (Which no doubt they do) come here and post, it isn’t hard to spot them. S have problems with the written word and trying to express themselves insomuch they tend to give themselves away very early in the game. As for “peeping”? Well peep all you want (s/p) because I know all you will get from it is denials denials and denials! Just more lies you can tell yourself!

James: I think Oxy is a great example of being a child living in this situation you mentioned. I think because Oxy’s humbleness stayed with her most of her life … she felt the pain from both her parents, but insisted on seeking truth. Even though she dealt with years of this abuse, she made it through. Emotionally battered and bruised, but made it through.

She can tell you better what the children of these folks have to go through. I think I see the answer in all our tales … we internalized it … and somehow worked through the pain caused to us … seeking truth.

Peace.

As far as I’m concerned about Xs peeping in here to read what we write, I hope they are learning something constructive (LOL).

Peace.

Dear James,

In reading your post about the court systems and psychopaths being allowed “parents’ rights” to the detriment of the children reminded me of the LAST GREAT JUDGE–King Solomon, and his “family court” problem.

Two women had babies, and one of them while sleeping with the baby, rolled over on it and smothered it. She realized this and while the other mother slept, she picked up her dead baby and placed it with the other mother and then took the live baby. Boy, was she a PSYCHOPATH!

The next morning the mother of the living child realized that her baby had been stolen. She accused the Psychopath but the psychopath CONTINUED LYING. (Imagine that!)

They ended up in court before the King. Each woman told her story and it was definitely a case of “she said, she said” so the WISE King/Judge knew how to get to the truth of the matter.

He said, “Well, since I can’t tell which woman is telling the truth, we will just DIVIDE the kid down the middle!” The PSYCHOPATH thought that was a great idea! It was FAIR.

Well, of course the REAL LOVING MOTHER said “NO NO! Don’t harm the child, let her have it.”

At that point the King gave the baby to the REAL MOTHER because SHE was the one who CARED for the child’s welfare.

Judges today should use the wisdom demonstrated by Solomon about which parent is the one to “care for the child’s welfare.” I realize that the cases aren’t as open and shut as that one but I still remember Dr. Amy Castillo’s case, and her X killed their children to get back at her. I still hope there is a hot spot in hell for that judge, and I hope that if nothing else he is tossed off the bench and disbarred.

All forms of abuse are not about “killing” or “breaking bones” in the children as well, but more subtle emotional abuse which is difficult to legislate against, to protect against. Children are scapegoated and their spirits broken.

Children grow up in homes filled with fear and abuse. My “Uncle Monster’s” children grew up with horrible fear and anxiety, and dread. It was only a few years ago that I actually found out the horrible things he had done to them and their mother, the fear he had instilled in them. The tremendous scars he left. They have all managed to get through the trauma and are all “good people” but two of them chose to not have children themselves. One adopted a special needs child and then had one of her own biologically.

When I realized that my “saintly” mother knew about and covered up the atrocities committed by her brother it makes my stomach sick.

When people KNOW ABOUT WRONG-DOING and do nothing, to me it is being an accompliace to the crimes.

Dear Oxy: I read what you wrote about King Solomon and that more judges needed to utilize this wisdom.

I am praying that people in this country that have power over our lives read the Bible to gain wisdom … instead of thinking that attending church is all that is required. Reading the Bible at least 20 minutes/day is one way to learn and gain wisdom. The other is to surround yourself with wise people who have also read the Bible. This way, society can put their mind at ease again, knowing those in positions they hold to benefit society, will do so through wisdom learned.

There is no short cuts in gaining wisdom. You either fit reading the Bible into your daily schedule, or you don’t. I’ve met people who jog logger than 20 minutes/day.

Peace.

Bible doesn’t do you any good either, if it’s all in your head. The heart is where God’s forgiveness happens, none of us are righteous “no not one”. We aren’t any better than the people who have hurt us really, I think what makes us different is that we WANT to be.

Kat: What do you think of this?

Mourn the losses, celebrate the faithful, and consider the God-given possibilities.

Battlefields are seldom pretty sights.

Neither are the churches which have inflicted heavy membership casualties.

Losses do occur.

Some of them significant.

Virtually all of them painful.

Even in the most war-torn battle zone, the faithful still remain.

These faithful are the ones God has faithfully chosen, guided, guarded and empowered.

They are the ones He has chosen to re-build the ministry.

The pastor’s greatest calling is to be God’s agent to minister to these people and watch God breathe life into what may seem to be an Ezekielian valley of dry bones.

Celebrate Renewal.

The battle having been won, transformation is just around the corner.

Remember that transformation is seldom instant.

Instead, the faithful’s transformation is the result of new shoots coming out of the stumps.

Seek them, nurture them, and watch God work powerfully to bring unprecedented and unimaginable renewal in your people!

The skin is healing over the wound in my faith but it’s very delicate right now. I want to get back into church for the kids, but I don’t know how many “You’re a christian so now tithe, work and forgive.. dress modestly, and always smile for the people on the way out the door, unless of course you’re crying at the altar with the other abused wives.. bleh.. no more for now. And it’s not a matter of finding a better church, I’ve been to so many of them over the years.

Dear Kat,

I can SO relate to your “the skin is healing over the wound in my faith but it’s very delicate right now.”

The nice thing is that you can have FAITH without having to expose yourself to people who SAY they have “faith” but don’t practice it. Sometimes they are simply well meaning people who THINK they are being kind and are think they are “encouraging you” when in fact, they are hurting you.

When my husband died I had so many people who said “I KNOW JUST HOW YOU FEEL”—-NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! they didn’t KNOW how I felt! But they were MEANING to be kind.

We can say to each other “I know how the P makes you feel” and we DON’T know exactly, maybe, but darned, if we don’t have a pretty good idea. So on something like the P stuff, I don’t take offense if someone says they “know” how I feel, because I have an idea they DO KNOW.

It is difficult for me to get mad at these “well meaning” people, but at the same time, their words and their “well meaning” stuff goes right through me like a knife, so I STAY AWAY FROM THEM so I don’t have to listen to it.

Same thing with going to church, I haven’t gone since the time last year when I fled. I am going to start back, but there is a really good congregation that is NOT JUDGMENTAL and doesn’t push people. That is where I will go. But I know that God is not “mad” at me because I haven’t gone to church, and so HE’S THE ONE I CARE WHAT HE THINKS, not others.

Kat, honey, you do what YOU NEED TO DO, and don’t worry about what anyone else thinks about your faith or your relationship with your idea of God. You and God, that is the only thing that matters, not what anyone else thinks you “should do.” I spent years trying to please God by doing what my mother thought God wanted me to do, it was like she was Moses coming down from the mountain with the “commandments,” only she had 10 THOUSAND, not ten. LOL

Now, I am no longer scared to death of God’s wrath, or visualize him as some angry old man sitting up in the clouds with a book making X marks by my name. LOL I “see” God as a spirit of LOVE. When people are kind and good to each other, they are doing “God’s work,” when people are mean and selfish with others, they are doing the “work of Satan.”

When you have a peaceful soul and are good hearted and kind to others you are happy. When you are always thinking about yourself and narcissistic, like the Ps, they are never really happy I think.

What is “dress modestly?” Does that mean a long Burka like the Muslims wear? I think that basicly “modestly” means “don’t dress like a hooker.” What is modest also depends on WHERE you are. If you are at the beach “modest” is one thing, but if you are at a library what would be “modest” at the beach wouldn’t be “modest” at the library. LOL Don’t get all hung up on the “rules” that other people try to put between you and God, Kat, just hang on to a faith of LOVE. (((hugs))))

You folks are going to love this one, now the ex sp is trying to contact me using you tube, sending me Songs and saying things only i and her would know, nothing is safe.

Dear Taken for a Ride,

Well, they are crafty aren’t they? Just don’t get on that BUS!

OxDrover Amen.

Thank you Oxy, and bless your motherly soul. By the way, that little story you told me before about finding a different size glass.. that really spoke to me. I really do need to stop measuring my life against everyone else’s standards. I know what it costs me to live independently and deal with all the everyday crap and crises that come along.. even if nobody else knows why I’m so scared and tired out.. my life is a battle..

Kat, Sugar, as long as you are STILL STANDING, you are strong! I remember those years of utter poverty while I was going to school, with two kids to support, going to school and working, keeping house, etc. and I was always TIRED physically and mentally, but I kept putting one foot in front of another and eventually I got there.

It isn’t the person who pulls three people out of a burning building who is a hero, Kat, it is the person who does the dishes, scrubs the toilets, feeds the kids, hugs them, puts them in the corner if they need it, goes to garage sales all over town to find clothes to dress her kids so they look nice for school and don’t feel ashamed that they are “poor.”

Heck, Kat, my kids didn’t even know we were poor because we had so much fun, even in those days. My son C was talking about it the last time he was home about how he realizes now the sacrifices and the effort I put in raising them in those days after my divorce, and he said that he had great memories from those days.

Our house was always the one the neighborhood kids congregated at.

Kat, you DO have a life NOW, and as my grandmother would have said, “don’t wish your life away” (waiting for tomorrow to be happy) enjoy every day of it, make memories, ONE DAY AT A TIME. There is no promise that we will even have a tomorrow, and we can’t bring back yesterday and do it over, so LIVE TODAY. ENJOY TODAY.

Count your blessings instead of worrying about what you don’t have, or what you might lose. 99% of the things we worry about never happen anyway. So don’t waste your time worrying about tomorrow. Find something every day to be grateful for. Your health, the food you have to eat, the fact that you are not cold or hungry. That your kids can get an education. That you live in a country where you can vote. We have so many many MANY blessings. I know there was a time when all I could think about was my PROBLEMS, but I have more blessings than any one person has a right to have, and I am so grateful for those things. I don’t have one thing more today than I had when I was looking at the dark side of things, but I am just LOOKING AT THINGS DIFFERENTLY. In fact, I have less money now than I did then. I have to watch my spending more now than I did then. But my WHOLE OUTLOOK ON LIFE HAS CHANGED and now I see the GOOD things and I am not missing the bad things, the pain, the fear, the worry, the anger, the hurt, the bitterness. I don’t miss those things at all.

Kat, dear heart! You are a good woman, a strong woman, and don’t you tell yourself you aren’t. You can do or be anything you want to do or be, and you can take care of yourself and take care of your kids. (((hugs))))

Well, I am the woman who posted this.
I appreciate all the responses– believe me. There are a few things I probably need to clear up. Mainly about my relationship with my husband. He is not the type of guy one may see him as by his action he took with his soon-to-be-exwife. Although I fully know he is to blame for his action, he was with her for 6 years. She had him completely spell-bound. And it was difficult for him to untangle himself from her. He is a man who believes once you’re married to someone, you’re married for life. But she cheated on him over 30 times (that she could remember) and didn’t tell him until she was caught. It all came out at once. She made his life hell. She would keep him up at all hours, obsessing about something until he said what she wanted to hear. But that wasn’t enough. He’d have to say it over and over again. She told a friend of hers that she enjoyed making him cry by telling him about guys she’d kissed while they were dating(because it meant that he cared). She’s a hideous human. I have no doubt that he loved me at the time he had sex with her and loves me to this day. I wouldn’t be with him if I felt otherwise. She is extremely manipulative. It’s obvious by all the people she can fool. And all the guys she sleeps with. He keeps his contact with her to the bare minimum. And he’s never alone with her. He’s taken precautions. Not that he’ll cheat again, in fact he despises her, but that she won’t make up stories.
As far as my stepson’s allegations. I have no doubt that they’re true. However, after he disclosed to his therapist, the state investigator interviewed him, and he did not disclose any name. He didn’t know the interviewer like he knew his therapist, and the investigator had to go through a list of questions and not deviate. He was 4. Of course he didn’t tell. After that, there was nothing we could do.
We had an emergency hearing for custody last week. She lied about everything on the stand. The judge felt as though custody should stay the same for now until trial, which happens in about 3 weeks. I have no idea where we’ll come up with the money.
I have many things documented. Too many to list. But we go back and forth about deciding if it’s important getting evidence to get the kids, and doing it so much that we wrap our lives around “what she’s doing now.” She thrives off of my husband caring about what she’s doing. He doesn’t care about her. He just wants to make sure she’s not doing it around the kids, but that’s not her perception of it. Anyway, I’m sure I’ll post more. There’s so much…
Thank you all!

As far as the kids:
I honestly try my hardest with them. She’s been messing them up. Really bad. They are now 5 1/2 yrs, 3 1/2 yrs, and one year old. Awfully young… The psychologist said that it will take a lot of work to keep the son from continuing to act out sexually (which is how we found out he was being molested in the first place). Since we set up our safety plan, he has acted out twice while with her, but not with us.
You want to know the really crazy part? She is blaming my son for her son’s acting out!!! My son is also 5 years old, and he never even knew what those parts were before meeting my stepson. My stepson has also acted out with many other children, while my son has not. Now, none of this is my stepson’s fault. However, I take extremely seriously the safety plan, because I don’t want any acting out to be done with any children on my time. I have to protect my children too. They never play in a bedroom. The play area is out in the open, and if they’re outside, they are constantly checked on. The funny thing is, when my stepson is with us, he just plays. He will always have problems with relationships and with sex, like the psychologist said, you can’t unring a bell. But it can be controlled to where he has a semi-normal childhood. Sad, huh? My mother in law was giving my step-daughter a bath a few weeks ago, and she got spread-eagle in the tub, with her knees up by her ears, and said, “This is how my mommy has me do it. You wash my nina then you wash my booty.” Ugh…
I can’t imagine how drained my husband feels, with his ex having her claws in those kids. After every hearing, he is so exhausted. We are doing everything in our power to get those kids. It would be so much easier for us to remain in a joint custody situation. The ONLY reason we are going for full custody is because she is the worst thing in the world for those kids… She really is.

You know, I really had no clue what I was getting into when I married my husband. If I had it to do over again, I’d marry him again. Just because I fall in love with somebody doesn’t mean I have to give him up because he has baggage. He deserves to be happy and so do I. If we live our lives around a sociopath, they win. That doesn’t mean they get away with everything without a peep from us. Heck yeah, I’m complaining! Nobody should be allowed to live their lives as a parasite, a drain on society, and a spreader of hate, STD’s, and drama. Nobody should view their child’s body as their own or their possession. Nobody should treat a man the way she treats mine. She messed him up. He’s still messed up. And, yes, we plan to go to counseling.
I can’t talk about this with his family or mine. They “kinda” understand, but they don’t live it. They don’t deal with it day-to-day. It’s very cut and dry with them, but they don’t deal with her.

That having been said, I’m trying to come to terms with the situation so that I can feel free to move on, even though she will always be there. I’m a deeply religious person. I know that no matter how many people she corrupts and convinces in this lifetime, she can’t shield herself from God’s eyes or wrath. And the 70 or 80 years we are blessed with on earth are very short in comparison to eternity. She is making decisions now that will cause her to not be remembered in God’s book of life. I don’t delight in it, but I’m not making her decisions for her. I just have to be sure that I do what I can to be remembered by God in the end. All this is temporary. I once read that bitterness is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. I can’t drink any more poison. I can’t let her change me anymore. Even though she already has. I’m wiser. In a way, I lost my innocence. Because she acted like my best friend. She caused my first husband to cheat on me. And she caused my second one to do the same. But you know what? Neither one wanted her back. They both wanted me. But all that is behind me. I’m just glad that there are people who understand, even though I don’t wish this experience on anyone.

Haha! I gotta say about all the posts about p/s peeping in… My s doesn’t even know she is one, so she wouldn’t even know to come here. But on top of that, if she did come here, she’d probably just see who she could con or sleep with next.

One other thing I must clear up. My now-husband and I became close through telephone calls during our divorces, because only we understood what the other was going through. However, our congregation elders told us to discontinue contact until the divorces were finalized because it was improper while we were yet married. By that point, however, we knew that we found a kindred spirit in eachother and wanted to be together. During the no-contact was when the incident happened with his ex-wife. So we were together, but we weren’t. It was a difficult situation. But I swear to you that we did not divorce our exes to be together. That was already in the works when we “found” eachother.

Dear Kerisee,

Thank you for sharing your story with us. I can’t even imaginehow you must feel with this much stress in your life, and especially with children concerned. This woman seems to be your own personal cross to bear.

I will keep you in my prayers and all the children involved as well. I think some of the worst crimes these people commit is to their own children. God bless you.

Thank You Ox,
You’re an inspiration.

She is diagnosed as Borderline Personality Disorder, but everything she does screams of sociopathy. I read somewhere that they can’t be diagnosed with that until they’ve been in psychotherapy for at least six months. Well, she wouldn’t be able to stick with anything that long. Thus the catch-22.

She started cosmetology school, and gets free daycare, so she’s been taking the girls to this daycare. She had no problem with it until she saw her “husband’s” ex-wife taking their kids there. Well, the ex-wife told the daycare teachers about how crazy she is, and on top of that, she blew up at the director because she wouldn’t write a letter for court against us because we picked the girls up late one time. (We paid the late fee– happened to be late because of meeting with lawyer). She was letting the F-bomb fly in front of parents and kids, then went to court acting all normal. Now she’s switching daycares. How unstable! She says it’s because of security issues. But the director said she lets the girls run around the busy parking lot unnattended while she flirts with the dads! If she’s so worried about security, how about letting the grown-ups take care of the kids and she can prostitute herself out all she wants!

But it’s all about control. She doesn’t know what love is. Just ownership. Possessions. My husband was a possession (still is, in her mind). His kids are her belongings. I begged for a year to get my step-daughter’s hair cut, because she’s 3, and it was way too long. No…No…No… Then, one month after starting cosmetology school, she cuts her hair off!!! Badly, I might add.

The kicker, though, was when she asked my husband to take their one-year-old two days early (the week I was supposed to give birth). My husband said yes, because x-s was “going out of town.” Well, she went off to Vegas, got married, and came back a full 3 days after she said she would. Left us with all the kids–while I had the baby!!! She came back, and I had a 3 day old baby. She knew I’d be giving birth that week. She couldn’t wait? Noooo… It’s all about her and what she wants. All the time..

Dear Kerisee,

BPD is a diagnosis that is so close to psychopathic diagnosis that I am not sure that they are not the same. It seems that more women are diagnozed BPD and more men PPD, but both are extremely difficult to deal with and have many of the same behaviors.

Something you might do that might help your attorney is to sit down and make a “biography” list of her activities, marriages, schools starting and stopping, etc. with the y ears and so on that they went on. The point of this is to show that she is “unstable” and that she flits from this to that. You can also maybe get a psychiatrist or therapist to testify for you that this PATTERN OF BEHAVIOR is detrimental for the children.

Of course she arranged to do the go to vegas and get married while you were having a baby–she got the maximum amount of misery out of it just for your benefit. That’s what they do. Don’t take it personally, it isn’t just “you” it is any woman your husband (her possession) would be with. She has to punish you and him for whatever things she imagines you two need punishing for. Plus, BPDs LOVE DRAMA.

One of the best ways to work with them is to NEVER LET THEM SEE YOU UPSET BY ANYTHING THEY DO. Keep a POKER FACE around them, keep your words short and to the point. Don’t ARGUE or contradict, just state facts.

Even if she shaves the kids heads or whatever, don’t react to it. The REACTIONS should be restricted to court rooms and as little personal interaction as you can get by with I think might help. They LOVE DRAMA so they get a thrill when they get a response from the audience (you). I know it is difficult to NOT respond, and it might be better if your husband did all the dealing with her face to face, and you not. That way at least you would have NO CONTACT with her and that might allow you some time to emotionally heal and get your head to stop spinning some. Not even having to see their faces is a vast improvement, and it might make her feel less threatened by your position as his wife and she might let up a bit at least for a while. ((((hugs))))) and prayers!

Ox,
Yes, I’m excited about our trial. The psychologist did evaluations on all of us. It was 34 pages long, and she didn’t have one good thing to say about Yoo-hoo (our code name for her). The psychologist will be our star witness. She knows full well how bad this woman is for her kids. So far Yoo-hoo’s been able to fool the judge, but not after the doctor testifies.
Really, the haircut thing is just an irritant. A minor itch on a body of rashes. LOL. I really don’t have much one-on-one contact with her. I leave that to my husband. I know I can’t handle it. She’s way too b!tchy, and I’d end up saying or doing something that negates the boundary I’ve built up. Like you said, she became tired of starting things with me, because I wouldn’t respond to her. But she tries once in a while by nagging my husband, acting like he’s hers. That gets me upset, but I still keep my cool. She doesn’t deserve a reaction from me.

Thanks for listening. I’ve blown a lot of smoke. It’s been building for a couple years now. I’m really trying to work on myself so that I’m not such a negative person. It’s not about what happens to me, it’s about how I take it.

Dear kerisee,

Quote: “It’s not about what happens to e, it’s about how I take it”

RIGHT ON! Keeping a positive and optimistic and hopeful frame of mind is a good thing, a VERY good thing, but at the same time I do know how hard it can be to do so. I am working on tht for myself as well. Putting lots of effort into being positive and it is paying off as I am starting to have more and better good days. Being more optimistic and feeling that I am more in control and that LIFE IS GOOD.

Looking more toward the NOW and TODAY than looking back into the past or even into the future, just enjoying the TODAY that I have. The simple things, the little things that if we are too negative or too down or too busy we miss.

Keep us posted on your trial results and how things are going for you.

If you haven’t seen it yet, go to Dr. Leedom’s blog web site about “parenting the at risk child” and she has some great information there for you and your husband about your step children. You should also got some good support there, but be sure and let us know here what happens at your trial.

It drives me “crazy” to get half a story and then the person never comes back and tells us how it turned out. LOL (((hugs))) and I will keep you in my prayers!

I have a question, though. My five-year-old stepson has been exhibiting behaviors that completely remind me of his mother. I am seriously concerned for this child. He will do things, and not care one bit about who he hurts or why he did it. His answer is always, “I wanted to and so I did.” When I look in his eyes, they are lifeless. Not lifeless, almost reptile-like. I worry so much. He lies too. All kids lie to some extent, and maybe I’m making it out to be more than what it is, but he will go with a lie, even when he’s been completely caught. When he gets in trouble, he whines and cries and makes it all about him. He doesn’t care that he did anything wrong, he just cares that he got in trouble. I can’t describe it very well. I know he’s gotten better since he’s been with us, but all that is about to change with the mediation agreement. His custody is supposed to go back to joint tomorrow. But I don’t think his mom knows what to do with him and his school schedule, so we may get to keep him. Fortunately the trial is only a couple weeks away. Hopefully we get a good result.

Anyway, so is it possible this child is already sociopathic? Is it really too early to tell, and if he’s exhibiting signs already, that doesn’t bode well for the future, does it?

Dear Kerisee,

There is a link here (found on the left side of the pages) to Dr. Leedom’s site “Parenting the At-risk child” I strongly suggest that you go there and read and blog there to get some advice on parenting a child who has a P parent to hopefully prevent them becoming full-fledged Ps, and to help the develop some empathy for others. Good luck and God bless.

Did the molesting of the 4 yr. old boy get referred to the DA’s office? That was extraordinarily harmful. In my opinion one of the biggest problems s/p’s present to society is, quite frankly, s/p judges, prosecutors, etc. siding with the s/p’s appearing before them.

There are several subterranean s/p problems that are just vast in scope, this is one of them, in my opinion. They all involve “passing for normal” s/p’s. Of course, I can’t know if that is involved in this case, I do not know the judge’s motivations. And, of course, s/p’s are geniuses at making others feel sorry for them (indeed that feeling is one of the flags to alert oneself).

In terms of educating jurists (and juries) perhaps there could be a court ordered educational program to produce “sociopath qualified” judges and juries. As it is, it seems the court system just can’t recognize the scope of s/p misbehavior.

Path-

I don’t know if it was referred to the DA’s office, but it was investigated by police. He did not disclose his mother to police. Part of the problem is that this child LOVES his mom. He didn’t even realize he was disclosing anything to his therapist, because she has ways of getting them to talk when they don’t realize it. Believe me, that’s the only way she got ANYTHING out of him! He is the type of child that won’t say anything unless he wants to. He doesn’t want to get his mom in trouble. She’s twisted his thinking so that what she did to him wasn’t wrong. It wasn’t the bad touching that he’s taught to tell about. She’s that sick…

Sociopaths don’t just lie to everybody else. They also lie to themselves. They make themselves believe their lies so that they’re better at telling them. In her mind, she never did anything wrong, so she passed the lie detector test. Of course, at the time, she was on Klonopin, anti-depressents, and other cocktails of mood-altering drugs as well.

I think judges should be well aware of the tactics of sociopaths, too. But how can they know that when even psychologists disagree about their traits, origins, and even what to call them??? And society is trained to believe that anybody who calls another a psychopath is just exaggerating facts, because “psychopaths are crazy serial murderers,” not con-artists, serial bitches, child-molesters, and “regular” people riding the line between legal and illegal, making normal people’s lives hell.

But I digress. The only people who care about sociopaths/psychopaths are the ones who’ve been targeted and were smart enough to educate themselves, and the people who are paid to point them out.

Do I sound bitter? If so, I’m sorry– have a lot to work through here…

Dear Kerisee,

Yes, but you sound FRUSTATED to me. Being angry with injury and injustice is a normal and expected result. If you weren’t angry I would be worried about you! You wouldn’t be normal. The trick is to let the anger energize you to fight the injustice without letting the anger turn into bitterness and “soul cancer.”

Take some time for nurturing yourself and keeping your marriage intact. That is also important. (((hugs)))) and always prayers.

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