Five and a half years ago I started a quest to understand sociopathy/psychopathy and antisocial behavior. Long before that, in 1981, I attended a lecture by Dr. Sarnoff Medick at USC. During that lecture, he presented the results of his research. His research on adopted children indicates that antisocial behavior has a strong measurable genetic basis. His studies did not single out anyone “diagnosed” a sociopath/psychopath they only examined antisocial behavior in parents and their biologic and adopted offspring.
Remembering these studies, I read them again and found many others demonstrating the genetic basis for antisocial behavior and sociopathy/psychopathy. Also at the beginning of my quest, I read Without Conscience by Dr. Robert Hare. (If you have not read it, I strongly recommend you do so.) That book teaches us about a category of people “psychopaths” who are without conscience and are antisocial. According to Without Conscience, psychopathy can only be diagnosed by professionals who using the PCL-R find a person scores over a certain cut-off. That book also makes reference to the genetic basis for “psychopathy.”
Questions about antisocial behavior, sociopaths and psychopaths
Reading all this material, I immediately questioned if psychopaths are a separate category of antisocial people. Many experts say “psychopaths” represent 1% of the general population and 25% of the prison population. I also wondered what the other 75% of the prison population would be considered. To my dismay I found several studies showing that many maximum security, very antisocial and violent criminals would not be considered “psychopaths” according to the PCL-R.
Three things about the research reports troubled me then, and also now. First of all what good is it to tell people there are a category of dangerous “psychopaths” out there and then in the next sentence to say that only trained professionals can tell who “they” are? Second of all, there are many very antisocial and violent individuals who “professionals” say are not “psychopaths.” In fact, studies of pedophiles indicate they are less likely to be “psychopaths” than other sexual offenders. What? Excuse me? Thirdly, while saying psychopathy is genetic, scientists imply that it is 100% genetic and that is simply not true. No study has found the disorder is 100% genetic.
These 3 issues lead me to focus on antisocial behavior again as opposed to a specific category of people, psychopaths or sociopaths. If we focus on antisocial behavior we can clearly identify people who commit a large number of antisocial acts. For these people harming others has become a way of life and is not something they do only occasionally. It does not take a professional to identify antisocial behavior or harm.
The focus should be first on antisocial behavior, then the personality traits of those who show a lot of it
Many experts agree with the idea that our focus should be on antisocial behavior first, then we should try to understand what characteristics very antisocial people have in common. In their book The Psychology of Criminal Conduct, Drs. Andrews and Bonta state, “A general Antisocial Personality Pattern may be more relevant than psychopathological models of antisocial personality. If we limit ourselves to the personality traits and behavioral patterns of highly antisocial persons, then we have little need for concepts such as APD (sociopathy) and Psychopathy.”
Dr. Hare also states in a recent paper, “In any case, the use of a threshold or cut score for “diagnosing” psychopathy is problematical, given recent taxometric evidence that the PCL-R (Guay, Ruscio, Knight, & Hare, 2007) and its derivatives (Edens, Marcus, Lilienfeld, & Poythress, 2006; Walters et al., 2007) measure a dimensional construct. Cut scores are useful for communication among researchers, but of necessity are somewhat arbitrary when used for diagnostic purposes. The real issue is not how difficult it may be to reach a given “threshold” but how variations in the psychopathy dimensions relate to variables of interest, including normal range personality processes (Hare & Neumann, 2008; Lynam & Widiger, 2007).
In other words, in his scientific writings, Dr. Hare says that the best use of the PCL-R is to describe the personality traits of people we have otherwise categorized. Using it to “diagnose” psychopathy is “problematical.”
Where do we go from here and is sociopathy/psychopathy still a relevant concept?
Sociopathy (antisocial behavior) and psychopathy, or the cluster of personality traits that those with antisocial behavior have, are still very important to understand. First most people do not habitually engage in harmful antisocial behavior. It is important for us to understand all the factors, from personality to social circumstance that contribute to habitual antisocial behavior, or sociopathy.
Psychopathy represents a cluster of personality traits that are commonly found in very antisocial people (sociopaths). There is no cut-off score for determining “a psychopath.” It is more correct to say that high scores on measures of psychopathy indicate the presence of psychopathic personality traits to an extreme degree.
Let’s go ahead and call a spade a spade and categorize sociopaths
Is there any way to categorize sociopaths? Yes I say there is. There are distinct categories that people who are very psychopathic fall into, obvious examples include: con artists, rapists, child molesters and career criminals. Less obvious examples include: pathologic liars, unscrupulous sales people, and the perpetrators of domestic violence.
Your basic bad relationship choice
I also want to point out that most individuals who are your basic “bad relationship choice” are more psychopathic than the average person. So it is OK to call them psychopaths for the sake of convenience. The category, “bad relationship choice” includes people who repeatedly cheat on their mates, lie to them, and manipulate them. Hear me if your lover cheats on you, lies to you all the time, tries to destroy your reputation, takes your money, manipulates you and/or tries to control you, he or she is very psychopathic. That is not normal behavior. People who love one another are supposed to take special care of each other. Get away from that psychopath now before you are destroyed!
The good news
Did you make a “bad relationship choice”? Do you know a pathological liar? If you answer yes to these questions you do not need me or any specially trained expert to tell you the person you know is very psychopathic- a psychopath and a sociopath. If you want to review the set of personality traits that pathological liars, “bad relationship choices,” con artists, rapists, pedophiles, and career criminals have in common, see What is a sociopath? and Dr. Robert Hare’s symptoms of psychopaths. Use the list of personality traits to decide for yourself just how psychopathic that person you know is.
Well, I certainly wish sometimes I could put my rose-colored glasses back on and live in a fantasy world. We Libras are the daydreamers of the zodiac. But sadly, I cannot go back even if I wanted to. So I guess I’ll have to learn to take the bad with the good in life. But at least you get to have some of the good. When you know real sorrow, you can also feel true joy. Our exes will never know either of those. I cannot imagine going through life with no real feelings.
I think it would be fun to have a LoveFraud gathering. Y’all are welcome to visit me in Denver any time. I wish there were some way to share email addresses.
The workshop I went to a few weekends ago focused on reaching our dreams in life. I realized that I didn’t even know what my dreams were! It’s like I’ve been so focused on the nightmares in my life–dealing with the ex, poverty, stress, etc., I’ve forgotten how to dream. I guess I was thinking about that when I was telling Iwonder to imagine life without the P. I really believe that when we can visualize something we want and can feel it too, we will manifest these things for ourselves. It’s really hard to do that when you’re dealing with so much stress. It’s so good to give ourselves some time to let the stress and worries go, and visualize happy things. For me, it’s at the end of the night as I’m drifting off to sleep.
StarG: Rose-glasses. I heard that all my life from my middle sister “Wini, take those rosie glasses off”. Me think I liked it better when they were on… anyway, rose-colored glasses means you are an optimist. I never had the heart to tell her that.
Back to the drawing board.
Wini, for me, the term “rose-colored glasses” works both ways because usually I see the good in everyone. That can certainly work against you, as I’m sure you know only too well. I have stayed in relationships long past their expiration date, because I believed deep down that they really loved me and things would work out. It’s so hard to see the sociopath for what he really is because there is no love deep down. It’s not something I could ever understand or empathize with. That’s why it’s so easy for me to go back into denial. If my ex hadn’t stood me up the next day after our intimate evening, or even just called with an excuse, I’d probably still be with him. He’d throw me a few crumbs and I believed. I wanted so much to believe…..
StarG: That’s because your waters run deep.
They however, only skim the surface of life, never delving deep into the waters of emotions.
Peace.
Thanks so much guyz, I’ve been cringing all day after I wrote that last post waiting for everyone to yell at me. I should have known you wouldn’t kick me when I’m down.
I sooooo wanna party with you guys, I’m going to pester Oxy to have a big sleepover at her farm sometime.
I know fantasies have no place in looking for a life partner.. but some of us just want so badly for Tinkerbell to live.. lol
Reminds me of what sailors know … stay out of the shallow waters or else you run your boat up against the rocks. Sinking ships … yes, they do … those shallow waters.
Peace.
Oxy: Did you read Kat’s post? Can we all party at your farm? Just tell me what to bring! lol!
star: how can we be sure they have no real feelings? i always felt that my ex was a very deep person. he laughs hard, cries when he’s overwhelmed with grief (i.e., when his mom died), can share very intimate loving feelings, gets excited about good things, depressed about bad things. don’t get me wrong; he has EVERY SINGLE p/s/n trait … his damn picture should be up there … but how can all of that have been fake? it just doesn’t add up for me. i’ve been having a really hard time the last two days feeling as though i just wasn’t good enough for him. he was younger, much more physically attractive than me, athletic, known to everyone, and loved by all who know him.
how could he be fake and only ‘skim the surface’ of emotions?
i’ve lost my compass on this. staying home from work today. can anyone help me get back to the reality?
i don’t care … be brutal.
and if you want to party, you’re all welcome to my 400 sq/ft nyc apartment!
IWonder said: “Also, my x had to have a standing fan in the room at night. He needed the noise.”
OMG, my ex had the exact same habit, and said he needed the noise. And he’d have the fan pointing right at the bed.
His sleep habits varied. Might sleep 5 hours one night, maybe 8 the next, but once his head hit the pillow he was out like a light–even if he had court the next day and might get jail time. No anxiety ever kept him awake. However, if he was tired and went to bed at 10 pm and woke up at 3 am, you can bet the bedroom tv would be turned on full blast. No consideration whatsoever that I was still asleep.
And the few times I tried going to bed before him, he HATED it. He always woke me. Sometimes by walking in the room, grabbing the headboard and shaking it till I woke up. I learned I could only sleep when HE slept.
LIG.. Everyone has feelings. But not everyone is as connected to them as they should be. Some of those guys are seriously shallow, but not all of em. Some I think harbor very deep anger, the ones that were turned to S/P’s by severe childhood traumas etc. .. They are furious inside but they never seem to get in touch with it. Instead they take it out on people in sneaky little ways, cheating, lying, manipulating… some of them are sure the world is out to get them, so they skim the surface of society, taking what they can get, “screwing” others before they get screwed.
Yours .. who knows, maybe he did the classic mid-life crisis thing. After all, he seems pretty angry at you for nothing. Sometimes they get that way, blaming you for “wasting” the best years of their lives. In fact some of his anger and rage might be towards you for feeling grief, for “hanging on”, ruining his perfect dream of escape into second youth. Who the heck knows what goes through their minds.
And you are in NYC, I am so visiting you. I am in Rochester and my daughter is moving back to NYC in December.