I received the following email from the Lovefraud reader who posts as “Zimzoomit:”
I saw the Lifetime Network show about you and lovefraud.com. What I would like to know is how the man who came next (your true lover, after the fraud) helped you to overcome the emotional havoc your ex who frauded you caused? Is there a specific blog or link on lovefraud.com to tell us how he helped you?
Were you able to talk about things that bothered you about your ex, even ever so occasionally, when/if the haunted thoughts encroached on you ”¦ even if only occasionally but for years after the fact, and if so, what things did your new love say, to help you overcome those thoughts? Was he willing to listen, or did he occasionally treat you like a “broken record”?
Yes, after the sociopath, I now have a wonderful husband, Terry Kelly. We truly love each other, care about each other, and want each other to be happy. I should point out, however, that Terry wasn’t my first relationship after the con artist.
First post-sociopath relationship
Seven months after I left my sociopathic husband, James Montgomery, I started dating a man named John. John was younger than me, fun and entertaining. We actually met online and corresponded for more than two months before meeting in person.
At the time, I was in the midst of finding out what my ex was really all about, communicating with some of his other victims, and filing for divorce. I described some of what was going on in my emails. The story, of course, was outrageous, and I guess that John was actually intrigued.
John lived an hour and 45 minutes away from me, so we saw each other only on weekends. We did normal dating things going out to dinner, to concerts, to parties with his friends or my friends. That’s one of the biggest things John offered me—a sense of normalcy, like a safe harbor amid the insanity of my divorce. He also paid for all our entertainment, which I appreciated, because I was broke.
I did talk to him about my outrage at my ex and my frustration with the legal case. John stayed with me until the divorce was finalized, and for a few months after that. Eventually, however, the relationship ended, and he did make a comment to the effect of, “all you talk about is James.” He may have also begun to feel that my problems were just too big, and he couldn’t solve them.
Still, we had loved each other, and because I loved him, the end of the relationship was emotionally more painful than the end of my marriage. In retrospect, however, John and I were really quite different, not an ideal match. I believe that John was in my life to support me at a very difficult time and that was it. I have fond memories of him, but our relationship was not meant to be forever.
Second post-sociopath relationship
Ten months after I broke up with John, I met Terry at a nightclub. A week or so later he took me out to dinner, and we talked about our circumstances. He had been in a long-term marriage, and his wife had just asked for a divorce. I figured I might as well be honest, and told him that I was married to a con man who took a quarter million dollars from me, cheated with multiple women, etc., etc.
I didn’t know how Terry was going to react. In fact, a month passed before he called for another date—I thought I had scared him away. But when he arrived for our second date, he brought his most recent tax return to show me. He thought what I had been through was terrible, and wanted to show me that he did make his own money.
Terry and I dated for four years before we married. With him, I truly learned to give and receive love, and live in partnership. We care about and support each other. He’s my biggest cheerleader with Lovefraud. In fact, I couldn’t have created it without his support.
If you’d like to read more about how these men helped me, it’s all in the printed edition of my first book, Love Fraud. (The e-book has been abridged, and does not contain the description of my relationship with John.) The story really is romantic
Love Fraud how marriage to a sociopath fulfilled my spiritual plan.
Primer for post-sociopath relationships
Here are what I think are the take-home lessons:
1. In order to have a happy, loving relationship with someone else, we must first heal ourselves.
No one can overcome the emotional havoc for us we must do it ourselves. While I was dating both John and Terry, I was also working with my energy counselor to release all of the pain of the betrayal by my sociopathic ex. Then, I had to work with her to release the emotional pain of losing the relationship with John. By the time I met Terry, I had made a lot of progress, so I was in a much better place to build a solid relationship.
2. Sometimes we find interim relationships before we find true love.
Not every relationship is meant to be permanent. Sometimes we just travel life’s journey together for awhile, supporting each other in some way, then our journeys diverge. This was my experience with John. Although I was sad when the relationship ended, I eventually realized that it had been exactly what I needed at the time. It was perfect.
3. Real love is easy.
In a true loving relationship, there are no games, no power plays, and no exploitation. There is an honest give and take. The two people in the relationship truly care about the each other’s welfare, happiness and success. Real love is peaceful and easy.
Terry and I have been together for 12 years, and I’m still excited to see him. We still make each other laugh; we still want to snuggle. But if I hadn’t done all the internal work that I did, I’m not sure if I would have been able to experience such a wonderful love.
The relationship we experience always depends on what is going on inside of us. That’s why it’s so important to make a decision to heal, and then do what it takes to rebuild ourselves.
OxDrover:
Just happened to see your reference to what I call my “4 ations” – which I list a non-negotiable requirements for dating suitability. They are –
1. Does he have Education?
2. Does he have Transportation?
3. Does he have Habitation?
4. Does he have Occupation?
I remember you had added a 5th “ation” – Does he have Reputation?
Matt, I always seem to forget the “Occupa-tion” I just remember it means a “job” LOL ROTFLMAO And yea, I think a good reputa-TION is important as well.
Glad to see you, Matt. I think of you often. I know your job keeps you busy but I miss your wisdom here.
My son Patrick is coming up for parole soon and I have been collecting letters of protest…but sort of let it “get to” me and have had to STOP and get my head back on straight. It is like breaking NO CONTACT, as well as the fear he will get out this time.
My attorney thinks he will be in there a “long time” but you never know. He did tell me that my PROTEST LETTER was the BEST ONE HE HAD EVER READ and since he does paroles for a living I imagine he has read a few. He knows what a P is and refuses to work for one, but he does have an 80% success rate in getting his folks out on parole. I’m just at a point I have to “let go and let God and the attorney” handle it.
I hope you and your partner are still doing well and your “new” job is still one that gives you some satisfaction.
Darwinsmom,
In the salsa world, we are taught “styling” moves, which are the things that make us look sexy on the dance floor. However, our teachers all tell us that the sexiest thing about a woman is her smile. My dance partner has also told me this over and over. I think it’s not how white or straight your teeth are or how your lips curve, but more the joy that shines from your face. This is incredibly sexy and irresistible to a man. Even when I was a beginner, he told me he loved to dance with me because of the way I smile. So I make it a point to smile at every man I dance with, even if I’m dying on the inside. For some reason, I’m always able to find the joy in my heart when I’m dancing and it has become part of my styling. Feeling that joy on the inside is what makes me feel sexy. I just don’t feel sexy when I’m depressed. So if I’m so depressed that I can’t even fake a smile, I won’t go to the clubs. I will, however, go to Zumba, because I don’t care if I’m sexy there – I just go for the workout. But if I go to salsa, I plan to smile. Many times, I go in a bad mood and come out in a good mood because I force myself to smile and the smile just takes over my mood. Then I get the positive feedback from the men.
Do spaths go into hiding at times?
As I go along I will use the following to represent the names of females. (Cr, Li, Ki, Na).
My spath friend is a Christian and is not yet 30 yrs old but have held various leadership position at his church. He has served as deacon, youth leader, he preaches and so on. But is he creating an impression or he has a true love for God. I consider him a spath or has a personality disorder or sort. I say spath because on Dr. George Simon’s checklist he fits many traits. I have experienced the effects of some of his doings. He even allowed me to discuss some of his traits with him and admitted to them.
In January 2012 he decided that he is going to be even more committed to God and his church. He would be reading the entire Bible in that year. He started reading the Bible and I suppose his life got busy so he did not complete the Bible in a year. He however did his usual Bible studies. The old ways started to surfaced by then end of the 1st quarter in 2012.
For 2013 he made the same pledge to himself again. To read the Bible in a year. Be more committed to church and to live an even better Christian life. He said he would be changing his old dirty ways. It sounded good to me but I wondered if the old ways can truly be changed. I gave him the benefit of the doubt although if he sets his mind to something he will do it. I have been a great friend to him for some years now but he does not reciprocate the friendship in a mutual way. Telling him to improve is not very helpful. He might improve on our friendship for a few days or weeks then it’s back to the old ways. It’s as if he has no understanding at the emotional and spiritual level. That I know therefore I handle myself with caution. By the way “no contact” is not possible at this time.
Do spaths change for the better at times? Well it is now March and I think that before March ends he will finish reading the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. Never before have I seen anybody read the Bible in three months. He reads the Bible in a super-focus way. He can sit in one position for the entire day and just read, read, read without feeling tired or exhausted. Have no idea how he does it. He knows the Bible and he preaches on occasion at his church. He is currently a Deacon and was recently made Elder in training. Those are two top positions with elder being the highest rank. Although he knows scriptures he sometimes twist it to his advantage or use it to confuse women or whoever to get what he wants.
As a means of living a better Christian life in 2013 he told me in January that he had called all the females that he has hurt and apologized to them. Or as many of the females he was able to contact. Now my friend has a list of some three dozen females he has had intercourse with and that is not quite the full list. So I asked him what were some of the reactions he got from the females he apologized to. To my astonishment he could not answer or the response he gave me could not hold water (didn’t made sense.) As far as I am concerned he probably prayed about the hurt he has caused these females but called very few, if any of them and apologized. From the 30+ women he had sex with ”“ did I mention that quite a few were his church sisters. Oh he is smooth alright. Getting females to bed is like ABC for him. All he has to do is put on the charm and if the female play hard to get he just pumped up the charm. I have personally watched him get a female’s cell number in less than two minutes by using a mild form of his subtle charm. How did he hurt these women? He used sweet words or promises to get sex, however, all of them sustained common kind of physical hurt. His manhood is oversized in length and width. He is aggressive during intercourse and he is physically very strong. He would hold the female in an overpowering position and have his way with her. When she starts to literally cry and beg him to stop because the pain is too great; he would get more sexually turned on by their anguish and agony as this is highly pleasurable for him. What the females got from the sexual encounter was a very battered vagina. Every one of the females bled probably from tear and were cramped for days. One got a damaged womb and is now unable to conceive. The spath would just laugh and said it was fun. Not even a call he would give them ”“ they had to call him about the damage. He jumped from women to women because hardly any of them gave him sex again ”“ therefore he likes fresh meat. Keeping sexually pure is one of the things he vows to change for 2013. Will he?
Has he really changed?
(The girlfriends: Cr, Li, Ki, Na)
In November 2010 he met girlfriend Cr. She was not a Christian but he managed to get her into the church for the relationship sake. Cr was in a relationship at the time when she met the spath. He saw her one day and asked for sex. She obliged. Things got complicated so she left her boyfriend for a relationship with the spath. Six months into the relations he said that he would get married to her in next six months – June 2012. They went to about two marriage counselling sessions at his church. ( Cr) was unemployed so the counsellor told her she needs to get a job. From that day the spath used that against her. I knew from the beginning that the relationship was going nowhere. The sign were there in black and white to me. One day I followed him to look at wedding rings and he made a remark which indirectly suggested to me that he was not going to marry her. I said nothing but patiently watched the process. When a man is in love with his woman he shows and talks about it. My friend hardly ever talked about h Cr. When he did mention her name to me it was mostly negative. As buddies our friendship was much closer and intimate than his relationship with the girlfriend. January 2012 his relationship with (Cr)took a twist and it ended. However, I saw how he orchestrated the whole break-up and then blamed it on her. I told him I know what he did to break up the relationship and he laughed.
Around March 2012 he established a relationship with Li. Li was a girl he had asked for a relationship in the past but she was not interested in him. She however decided to give him a chance this time. Of course he got her hooked. Again I knew he was not serious about Li. He was playing her. By August 2012 that relationship ended and again he claimed it was Li’s fault. He said that she was not a Christian and he told her to become a member of his church before they can have a relationship. I told my spath friend that he is at fault because he knew that Li was not a Christian and it’s against his church rules. During the period of that relationship he had sex with a few other females. He never had sex with Li. In November 2012 I had two days of good chat with my friend. He opened up and allowed me deep into his inner world and I was able to see him even clearer. For some reason he tells me things. I had been reading about sociopathy so I questioned him on things I was curious about and traits about him personally that I wanted to confirm. It was at this point this told me that Ki is his girlfriend from August. She is one of his church sister. I was quite surprised. This he never told me about nor had I heard him mentioned Ki as a girlfriend. Strange I thought. He said that he told Ki from the onset that if things worked out between them then she would be the one he marries. Then all of a sudden he claimed that ki’s sister were having a problem with their relationship so he and Ki decided to call it a day. To me he started playing Ki shortly after he was through playing around with Li. He treated Ki like a dirty floor mat one day. He had arranged to have sex with her and when she arrived he just gave her taxi fare and told her to back home without any explanation. He did not let her inside and she was the so-called girlfriend at the time. Guess what? The spath had a threesome planned that day which he did have.
So exactly two weeks after the relationship ended with Ki I saw him with this new young lady and I ask who she was. He said that she is his future wife. Another friend asked him about this new female and he said the same thing ”“ “his future wife.” This was like the second week in December 2012. This new girlfiend Na is a teacher and was on Christmas holiday. Her little sister was away for holiday so Na would be home alone. The spath somehow got her to come and spend a week at his family house where he lives. Na stayed at the house of the spath’s sister which is on the same premises. This is how they met. The church that he attends was having a District of Churches day of prayer and fasting . Of course my spath friend told me that at church he kept looking at this girl only to realize a little later he had met her before in a taxi one day and he had asked for her number then. She was playing hard to get and so he told her that he can get any woman he desires. To their surprise they are of the same denomination.
They had lunch together at the fasting and prayer break. They shared with each other what they were seeking from the Lord. Low and behold they both have been seeking and praying about the same thing. She was praying for a husband and he of course was praying for a wife in the faith. With the exception of Ki all the other girlfriends were non-Christians. They both concluded that their meeting at praying and fasting that day was by Divine Order. The Lord has brought them together. They are meant for each other. In the first week of January 2013 my friend and I were talking. He was updating me on his new girlfriend and telling me that he has lost the desire to be sexually promiscuous. His new commitment to God and church was going well. We spoke a little about his new girlfriend and future wife Na. He said that she is the first female he feels very comfortable around and does not feel embarrassed with her in public as with former girlfriends. He also said that Na is the first female he has a “soft ”“ spot” for in his heart. This was a red flag to me because he could not even express the LOVE he feels for this “future wife.” Is it because he does not feel deep emotions? Even now I am yet to hear him speak of his love for her, yet he wants to marry her next year. He once introduced me to a past girlfriend. A really beautiful and sweet young woman. I asked him how he felt about her and he responded that he cared about her. I asked him in what ways he had cared about her. I caught him off guard with that question because he does awful when trying to express intimate emotions or feelings. He could not express it. Not even to fake it. He would simply flirt with most of the females. They fell for him. He used them and dumped them. Many were his friends. None of his relationships ever lasted beyond a year. My friendship with him is closer than all of the females put together and longer lasting ”“ not sure about Na though. He flirted with me too which resulted in some same gender activities. No sex. A gay friend of mine is convinced that the spath is gay based on the same gender activities we did. He won’t tell if he is gay, bi or curious. Anyway I have broken off the activities.
He seems to be interested in Na because she is a virgin and she never had a serious relationship before. She is also a teacher and that appeals to him too. I wish I could tell her to run because if she marry the spath she will be in for a rude awakening at some point later on. Spath wants to get marry next year and he doesn’t have to worry about the wedding cost as two of his aunts want to sponsor him. He was always lucky like that. One thing though he is not lazy and has an independence to him.
The question now is: Will he marry Na or will he detach from the relationship when things get really serious. He does not talk about the future wife at all for someone who should be in love. All I can do is pray for Na with the hope that God will spear her from the ordeal of this disordered personality before things escalates to marriage. Or has he really had a change of heart from his old dirty ways and is pressing forward. Is he hiding as a wolf in sheep clothing? Only time will tell I guess.
Peace.
Jov77,
“Do spaths go into hiding at times?” MOST DEFINITELY! Just as serial killers go on sprees,meaning there are times when they’re inactive-spaths plan their moves according to their needs.
Your friend doesn’t sound like he has any empathy or remorse.He has definitely been using religion as a facade to hide behind,while carrying on his evil deeds.As to whether he will marry NA or not….what has his history been?!!!
You’re right about a man who is in love talking about his woman and their future together.It’s true that sometimes a bad experience will cause someone to be hesitant,maybe even “break out in a sweat” at the thought of committment.But I don’t believe for a moment that describes your friend.I wish I had known about those red flags before I married spath husband.He didn’t even have the decency to propose to me before putting the engagement ring on my finger!It was an ‘understanding’ since we has discussed marriage.
BTW,DONT YOU THINK THOSE LADIES NEED A FRIEND?
Jov77, Blossom4th is absolutely right, psychopaths are not “bad” 100% of the time, 24/7 and they may even “make improvements” for a short period of time, or PRETEND TO. It iis obvious to me from what you have said that this man is what Jesus was talking about when he said “wolves in sheep’s clothing” coming into the flock to devour them. This man is devouring the very women he is supposed to be spiritually guiding.
Jesus said “if thy brother offend thee, go to him privately and iif he will not listen go back with 2 or 3 witnesses, and iif he still fails to listen take it before the church” By keeping secret from the leadership of the church this man’s bad behavior you are in a sense “covering up” for him. He is NOT YOUR FRIEND, as this kind of liar is never a friend to anyone, they are incapable of being friends.
You say NC is not possible right now…not POSSIBLE or “inconvenient”? Get away from this man and notify the church elders or leaders.
Jov77, to answer your question about whom the spath will marry, I’ll put forth my answer in the form of a question: Do you have any control over this individual’s choices of victim targets and/or how and/or when he will tear them apart?
If I believe that someone’s behaviors fit the profile of a sociopath, the most gravest of all errors that I could possibly make would be for me to tell them about themselves. Unless I am a trained professional, I am not “qualified” to make such an assessment, and telling anyone that fits the profile about themselves does NOT give them any incentive to “change.’ A sociopath does not, cannot, and will not change – ever. If I tell a sociopath about themselves, they will not be “shamed” into changing anything other than their techniques and tactics. They might appear to be offended, but they will take the information that I give them and develop newer and more creative methods to bait, lure, and snag victim targets.
OxD is 100% spot-on, and your choice to continue interacting with someone that you believe is toxic is just that: a choice. There are always options, even if none of them are pleasant.
Just so you can understand, the man that I was married to for over 12 years professed a profound belief and relationship with God and claimed to have been “saved” in a religious ceremony. This same individual targeted me, specifically, to relieve me of nearly 300K and his “religious” associations allowed for him to live an extremely sexually deviant alternate lifestyle that he had been interested in EVEN as he was being submerged in a baptism long before we ever even met one another.
That you refer to this predator as your “friend” is also disturbing. No predatory human being is a “friend” to any other human being because they will exploit and destroy any other human being for their own purposes and entertainment. No matter how many times a predatory human being reads the Bible, Torah, or any other religious writings, they are not absorbing those doctrines to become “better” human beings – they are dissecting those doctrines in order to exploit OTHERS.
I’m very sorry that you’re having these experiences and glad that you found LoveFraud. Read as much as you can and post your experiences so that you can process them.
Brightest blessings
This was such a timely article for me to read. It’s been a little over 3 years since leaving my psychopath husband and over that time have been good about getting frequent counseling and rebuilding my life. Over the past year, I met and became good friends with one of the dearest men that I could have ever hoped to meet – he meets every one of my 48 criteria from a 7 page document of “what to look for” and more (one of which was “is willing to get a brain scan to prove he’s not a psychopath.”) Over time, he’s won over my heart with his gentle kindness and patience. He’s stable, loving, kind, very empathetic and accepting of my history and willing to work through it all with me (even the nitty gritty nasty of the ptsd that can emerge). He’s so “normal” that other people might think that he’s “boring.”
To me, and probably to many of you, I now find the idea of a boring partner to really attractive after knowing the alternative. And yet I’m having to learn how to find “normal” sexy and attractive consistently. It’s so very true that psychopaths have that bit of danger underneath that can be so magnetic.
So, yes, I find my boyfriend sexy and wonderful. But I struggle with consistency and knowing when I’ll feel what at any given time. At first, I could be very open and loving with this incredible man. With the strong friendship as a basis and romance as an added benefit, it was very healthy and incredibly refreshing. And yet, as I write this, I’ve been struggling deeply with my feelings. As we get more serious, I find that I’m more confused than ever about how to negotiate this relationship. Sometimes my feelings for him entirely shut down and it’s hard for me to even be sure he’s the right guy for me. It’s those times that I feel like I need to pretend to be happier than I am (but he calls me on it and tries to help). On the flip side, there are so many times that I absolutely adore this man – His character is true and proven. We love each other’s company, have huge respect for one another, take good care of each other, have the same humor, are very laid back and are as compatible as I’ve ever known.
I appreciate knowing that there are some of you that have gone through hell and then learned how to have healthy, safe relationships with great men. I just wonder how to deal with baggage of uncertainty and fear that pop up. Is it always going to be like this? Does it get better? Do any of you have advice you can give me (and my boyfriend)?
Thank you so very much
Comesthedawn, it’s very encouraging for me to read about survivors who, after a time in recovery, find a truly healthy and loving relationship. I’m so happy to read of your emergence.
Personally, as it stands, I will never even date, again. I have too many issues to manage to risk my recovery for romance. I wish I COULD offer some suggestions. I’m sure that others will pipe up and share what has worked for them.
Congratulations and brightest blessings
Thanks for your thoughts Truthspeak. I just want you to know how much I appreciate what you expressed about dating/future relationships.
Until I met my current partner, I was crystal clear about the fact that I would never date again. I couldn’t. I was a mess, not sure who I was anymore or even what reality was. And for all intensive purposes, I often still feel that way.
It’s a huge struggle to manage my internal recovery, let alone take on this whole dating concept. I think you pegged it … it feels risky. And I agree wholeheartedly with you: after an experience with a pathological, recovery must trump romance. We may come out of that nightmare with the unyielding strength of a survivor but must respect that we also carry the fragility of one dancing on the edge of brokenness.
Given the risk, I’ve always felt that the road to recovery required me to be on my own. So now, years later, the idea of bringing someone else along with me on that path is positively terrifying. It’s just such a hard process to move forward and let someone in (even when they’re spectacular). I’m trying and I’ll keep on trying… but who knows if I’ll make it. It’s a long, hard road back.
Sending you the brightest blessings as well.