Dr. Essi Viding of the University College of London explains her research into children who show callous and unemotional traits characteristics that have been linked to psychopathy in adults. A predisposition to develop these traits, she says, is highly heritable.
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How to recognize and recover from everyday sociopaths - narcissists
It makes sense that there are genetic factors with this disorder. Of course, it’s also scary.
Wow. This video is fascinating. I have known this spath off and on since 1996 when he was 41. He told me he remembered nothing from his childhood. As he ages now, he will tell me that he remembers nothing and a few months later tell me a story that always involves spath behaviors. IE: He remembers throwing a rock at a neighbor baby when he was 7 and it was a “big deal” and everyone was upset and that’s all he remembers. He remembers being around 10 and being transferred to a school kids who were gifted in math and science and by the end of his first day, the other kids in the class had signed a petition to kick him out! When asked what happened, at the new school for example, he will shrug and say, “My Mom came.” His mother coddled him and he lived at home until he was 32. Yet, he has told me that as she saw what kind of a young adult he was, she called him, “S%%t for brains” in Polish. When asked about his father, he says that his father was one of the nicest men in the city where they lived and his dad used to volunteer to deliver medicine to people who were homebound. Then, when asked what he and his father talked about when he would go with him, he says, “My Dad never talked to me.” I never really know what is true about these stories. I can only tell (after a lot of research and reading) when he is lying in the moment. I can’t tell usually when he is lying about his childhood.
He loves to watch slasher fills and loves to watch PBS…both! He will watch the same slasher films many times through the years. I think the researcher in the video gives a good explanation of that lack of empathy for others. He told me three years ago that he told a psychiatrist he was seeing through the VA that he was crying when watching the Olympics or things like that. He told me that her response was that was because he was “jealous of the achievements of the people competing.” At the time, I thought, “What a weird thing for her to say.” Now, I think, “She was really good. She knew what she was dealing with.”
I would love to peruse his VA records. I know when he was recently at the VA hospital, the people I spoke with seemed to know that he was a sociopath, and when I told them I felt he was, they were not surprised at all. One nurse said, “I know.” I said, “How do you know?” He said, “My wife taught him in college.” We had attended that same college as older adults and that is where I met the spath. I asked the nurse how many women he had toyed with in his academic specialty. He said, “At least three I know of.” I confronted spath about it and it was so interesting. He swears he never heard of the instructor when I remember him talking about her at the time! He said that the nurse “broke privacy rules” (which he did, but really seemed to want to make sure I knew that he knew) and he was going to report him. I said, “Well, he will probably be taking care of you again. Are you sure you want to do that?” Then, he shut up. He recognized revenge might come back to bite him because he is ill. I immediately called the nurse and said, “Look, the spath’s out to get you for agreeing with my assessment and reinforcing what I already knew about his cheating and using of other women. I don’t know your name and you don’t know my name. I will NEVER tell anyone I ever talked to you about the spath.” He said, “OK” and we hung up. I felt the Nurse wanted to tell me even more, but I didn’t want him to get into trouble and I already know enough. It was a very strange thing.
I think the spath in my life was one as a kid. I think his father may have been one. He told me his mother used to get upset because his father would not speak to her either. I think their parents always think the next victim is the one that will make their adult spath “normal” and that is why they don’t warn us. This spath’s parents were already dead when I met him and his sister lived far away. I am almost numb to him at this point which is good for me and bad for him. I try to look at him as a research subject sometimes to be sure I am distanced emotionally when he exhibits lack of empathy ten minutes after he showed empathy somehow. It’s like watching Planet of the Apes or something. I think there are more spath kids than we know.
Fight – an interesting point you brought up about families. Some families are clueless about the sociopathic family member, and some families know that the individual is bad news, even if they don’t know the actual diagnosis. Some families intentionally do not warn the next target, because they are hoping the target will take the sociopath off their hands.
Hardly anything is more debilitating than the loss of a child.
Society can readily relate to loss that affects parents whose children die, but the loss of a child through “psychopathy” is devastating. It’s a loss that renews itself daily as the child continues to behave with the menace that results from their disordered moral reasoning. The unsolvable nature of a child’s inability to conduct themselves with love or affection can cause serious harm.
As they age and become independent, their shallow emotional connection can sever their parent/child bond. Psychopaths only retain relationships where they recognize a distinct gain. That concept was underscored the day he said, “Now that I’m independent, what do I need you for?” It’s been 5 years. I’ve barely heard from him since.
When I attempted to breach the silence to let him know I needed cancer treatments, his only response was “leave.” I survived that day simply by knowing he has a disorder, and by being blessed with good friends.
The relationship with any child, even the most well balanced, can have difficult moments. As young adults progress through puberty on their way toward independence, conflicts with parents are not uncommon. But a relationship with a normal child will be sustained by the love and respect that a psychopathic child is void of and the higher level of moral reasoning that enables everyone to put anger aside for the greater good. Psychopaths hold onto their anger because it serves their purpose.
Although I’m not a psychiatrist, my own circumstance has caused me to research the impact of genetics and nurture on how empathy, conscience and concern for others fails to evolve. For every psychopath, sociopath, BPD or Narcisist, there was a mother who is left wondering how the disorder came about.
I saw my son’s lack of empathy from the time he was small. I simply did not know that maturity would not make a difference. Children without empathy can’t develop conscience, nor can they develop a positive code of moral behavior. While they can feel slighted and offended at the actions of another, they don’t connect with the consequences that their own behavior has on someone else.
The portion of this video that I found especially enlightening was the discussion of the various types of empathy, and the knowledge that they each have a separate role.
According to Dr. Lianne Leedom, empathy can be created for a child who is “at risk.” Had I been aware that empathy would not develop on its own with maturity, and had I had the wisdom of Dr. Leedom’s message, I may have addressed my son’s upbringing differently. We can only do the best we know how to do at the time.
Determining whether a person has empathy may be the most important key to their potential to harm another. Therefore, instead of analyzing whether a love interest is attractive, sexy, fun, humorous and charming, we need to take stock of whether they demonstrate empathy and a positive code of morality.
I gave birth to my child through a relationship with a predator. I only wish I’d known that a predisposition to psychopathy is genetic. From what I’ve recently understood, it seems that the distinction between sociopathy and psychopathy are the causes: sociopathy emanating from social interaction at an early age, psychopathy having an underlying genetic predisposition. The impact of genetics and his father’s abandonment seemed to have a far greater influence than my presence as a single parent conveyed.
In reality, as victims, it doesn’t matter whether the predator that dealt you harm was a psychopath or a sociopath. It still hurts!
Unfortunately, I missed the opportunity to post this on Mother’s Day, but here’s a Mother’s Day poem that I hope mothers of psychopathic children can relate to:
On Mother’s Day
The day he was born, held the promise of life,
A wonder created, no knowledge of strife.
No hint of the future, the deeds and their pain,
If I’d known what I know, would I form him again?
Would I give all I gave? Was I under a curse?
Only one consolation, he could have been worse.
And he probably would, had I not intervened,
Tried to steer him toward love, while he strove to be mean.
Hard to counter a course that was doomed from the start.
Gave him all that I could, from the depths of my heart.
My only one solace, as I search for a sign,
That’s all that I have, from that child of mine.
Released to the world, just connects through his hate,
“Transferred anger” reflected toward his mother, my fate.
Ironic connection, that harms to my core,
From the love of my life, disturbed child that I bore.
As I long for the answers, as I pray I can mend,
His shadow still lingers, as it will ’til my end.
The smiles we both shared, the laughter the tears,
But the joy turned to heartache, far beyond my worst fears.
So this Mother’s Day won’t bring me roses or praise,
Just a sadness at thinking of all of the days,
That led us along to this terrible rift,
That he could have been worse, my sole Mother’s Day gift.
Regardless that your child is unable to return your love, I hope knowing that you did all you could do, and the very best you knew, gives you peace on each and every Mother’s Day.
Joyce
To JM Short:
You are right, nothing is more painful than a loss of a child. Moreover, nothing is worse than never knowing what is next with them.
I read your post very carefully after watching this very enlightening video, which gave me a lot of insight to my unanswered questions. As I pondered this past Mother’s Day and wondered what caused such a terrible outcome with my daughter? What could I have done differently? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. It pains me so very much that she is who she is.
I have come to understand more and more her behavior. Sadly, she is just like her father and my ex and his father.
Recently, I got very sick due to complications from my medicine. She was notified about my possible death, she is only 19 years old, and she very simply said she just did not care, and wished me dead. Since she was my next of kin, I had to have a will drawn up very fast in the event someone had to make medical decisions for me to eliminate her having this decision making capacity.
I, too, have read a lot about this behavior pattern and always wondered if it is genetic or environmental. Being that her father was diagnosed with anti social personality disorder and as a malignant narcisist, and his father not much different, I am certain that both the genetic factors and part learned factors contributed to her behavior.
During her time with me I observed my daughters lack of empathy towards other children, her siblings and her pets. What really concerned me was her lack of sadness for consequences of her behavior. She began rather serious lying at about 5 years old, almost causing a teacher to be fired. I gave her very serious consequences/punishments for her behavior and was consistent with my expectations. It did not seem to bother her in the least. She just did not care about anything. She always tried to find a way out. Manipulative, Yes.
Her lies continued to get worse as she aged. It did not help the situation that her father knew she was lying, but always took her side in the lying sceams. which then involved my friends and other people in our community. Her father, again, assisted her in the lies.
Her siblings were afraid of her. She would lie, steal and take the other childrens belongs, get caught and then go after the sibling. I often had to get in between them to prevent her from hurting/hitting her sibling.
If that is not enough…….. she would say she fed her pets, but would, at times, not feed them anything. She didn’t even seem to care. Other times, she would barely feed the other pets enough. I talked to her and explained that the pets are like children and they depend on us to take care of them for food, water, shelter and medicine. I asked how she would feel if when she was a baby she was hungry and I would not feed her enough? She had no response.
I have not spoken to her in five years. She did call me on the telephone and left me a message that was so full of venim/hatred. It is so sad that these people have to stay so angry in order to serve their purpose. Thank you again for writing that psychopaths only keep you around if you are a benefit to them. How very true.
The only times (2) in five years I have heard from her is when she wanted something, and only when she wanted something. Even if what she wanted was against the law, she still wanted it, even if it was against the law.
She stole from me, lied to me, told lies about me in my community and even was willing to testify against me in court. Yet, I am still having a hard time letting go. I still think she will turn around. All of what I am writing should speak volumns about staying far away from her, but common sense and that Mother thing, tells me different.
I do not benefit her anymore. I am expendable. She is independent of me. Her father pays for everything for her, her BMW, her credit card, her spending, etc. No boundaries no accountabiliy no nothing.
I worry that she will unduly influence my other child not to speak with me either. My daughter, I believe, is dangerous to anyone who gets in her way. My head tells me to not have contact with her, but my heart says different. I will even go as far as to say I am afraid of her.
Please, if possible can you give me some insight to forget about her.
Your story could have been written by me, with some minor differences…. my son actually did succeed in getting a teacher fired. He was in the 2nd grade. He’d behaved so badly that the teacher sent him into the hallway for a time out. When the teacher went out to talk to him, my son feigned that he struck him and went running to the principal. It was a private school. The man was fired on the spot.
Several years later, my son encountered the teacher in the subway. They both exchanged a cordial “hello” and my son came home and confided to me that he’d seen the teacher that he “got fired” for “doing nothing” as a kid. Now that he was an almost adult, one would think he’d have some regret. I asked if he’d apologized to him. He laughed.
I think of my son each and every day. I wish I could tell you that’s not the case, but it is. The problem is that you and I are capable of deep, abiding, and unconditional love. Our love for our children is truly unconditional, because even though they have caused us heart wrenching pain, we still love them.
You should take heart from the knowledge that because you are a person who is truly capable of loving your child deeply, she is the best she can be. She could have been worse but for your love and influence. She was also influenced, however, by the world around her.
Even though I love my son, I recognize that he is not really capable of love. I don’t expect him to love me any longer because I know he is disordered. Knowing that he simply “can’t” makes his loss a little more tolerable. And I’ve learned enough about the disorder to recognize that it’s unlikely that he will change.
Your daughter is still relatively young. She is still finding her way in the world, and the folks she emulates could behave badly toward her. Although her pathology is unlikely to change, she could still want to connect with you from time to time to serve her purpose of the moment. But be careful. She sounds like she has all the signs of psychopathy (which is one of the many disorders that fall under the umbrella category of anti-social personality disorder.) Her connections are about her gain and only look like love and caring to enable her to reach her goal.
Without complaining to your other children about how your daughter behaves, or falling into a pattern of trying to defend yourself against her accusations, you might simply help them understand by getting a book on psychopathy for them. Dr. Robert Hare’s book is a good choice, and Dr. Lianne Leedom’s book, “Just Like His Father,” is another.
If they are still at an age where you have influence, taking them for some family therapy may help put things in perspective.
Loss of a child is crushing and debilitating. She is not “confused.” When you recognize that she knows exactly what she’s doing and she’s doing it deliberately to hurt you, you may begin to appreciate that you are lucky not to have her daily harmful mindset in your life any longer.
I know how difficult it is to feel at peace when you’re missing one of the pieces. Unfortunately, the piece that you’re missing is someone who is focused on keeping you from having that peace. If you weren’t important to her, she wouldn’t be doing this to you.
The opposite of love is not hate….. it’s apathy. If your daughter didn’t feel attached to you, (and I won’t call it love because it sure doesn’t feel like love,) she would simply be apathetic to you. There would be no ugliness and no defaming.
I know nothing I can say can possibly change your daughter’s behavior toward you, but you can begin to heal even though the harm persists.
Wishing you joy from the blessings you have in your life, that you must remind yourself of, when the loss of your unappreciative daughter feels overwhelming. If you can’t stop ruminating about the loss, please seek treatment. I did. And it enabled me to feel joy again.
All the best-
Joyce
jm and short: Thank you for sharing how parents feel. Both of your stories have helped me and I am sorry for the loss of your child as you expected him/her to be. I found this researcher’s discussion abut the Amygdala very interesting. I have read a lot about that part of the brain because of my PTSD. Because the Amygdala is the earliest, instinctual part of the human brain, if it is damaged and birth or afterwards, it can take over and it is impossible to fight it. I think your stories help put a new perspective on the subject and can help the rest of us even though it is painful for you. I thank you.
Joyce
Thank you for your compassionate message to me. It really helps me understand that I am not alone, nor have I abandoned her, as she tells everyone. I have tried everything. It doesn’t help that her father is disordered as well. She has the perfect professor for her lessons on her mastering her behavior.
I remind myself of all of the things she and her father have done to me together, as a team, to hurt me, confuse me, drug me, cause me sleep deprevation and play mind games with me. All in an effort to get rid of me — either by having me “committed” , poisoning me, or by taking my own life. All in an effort to get all of the “stuff” without a divorce and settlement.
Again, I thank you for reminding me that I am very blessed that I don’t have to live with her daily and all of the trauma she had caused me. I always slept with one eye open. I truly was and am still afraid of her.
Something I am reminded of with her behavior is her ability to “show empathy”, ask questions and “show concern”,… bring you in for the kill.
Prior to my divorce, when she was only 15 years old, I had called on my cell to make an appointment with a new therapist. I had to wait several weeks to see her. I arrived at the therapists office only to find that there was another person also waiting in the office. I thought, hum I wonder why someone else is here, perhaps they are waiting to bring the client she is seeing home?
The therapist came out, I stood up, introduced myself, and said I am here for my appointment. The therapist looked very confused and said, why are you here, you called and cancelled your appointment. In reply, I turned a ghostly white, and said no, no, there must be a mistake. Fortunately for me, the person, who was waiting graciously gave up the appointment that was her’s to let me see the therapist.
I saw her, very frazzled, and asked alot of questions about who called and cancelled the appointment. She told me that is was a woman’s voice. Later that day, my daughter asked me about the appointment. I wondered how she knew, and then said “I bet the receptionist cancelled your appointment in error”. I quietly agreed, knowing the therapist did not have a receptionist. She was caught, but did not know it. They are clever, calculated and devious
All I have to do is hear from people like you and remind myself of where I was, and how far I have now come. It is that, that keeps me at a distance and reminder of why she cannot be a part of my new life and probably never will ever again.
I am getting stronger by the day, but it still hurts. All that we do to hopefully bring up our offspring to be productive members of our society to see it crumble in our hands.
I have learned over the last five years to put up really good boundaries and hold to them. I have had to let go of some people who, did in fact, did cause me harm and were very good at manipulating me. It felt really good.
I am very familiar with Dr. Robert Hare. Would you please give me the name of the book that you are referring to for me to read? I have read the sociopath next door. Very interesting and so true. No wonder why it is a best seller.
I have a fall off the cliff days, and think of the good times and the dreams that I had for us. Thank you for your support. It really helps me.
Dear Out-
The book I was referring to by Dr. Hare is “Without Conscience.”
So sorry to hear of your ordeal with your daughter and wish you abundant peace!
Joyce
I have heard of the “Hare Test” for psychopaths/sociopaths. About a year ago, my spath got one of the books about it from the library. I can’t remember if it was a book written by Hare or about the Hare test. What I do remember is the spath talking about it…probably trying to get me to engage in a spath game. I looked up the Hare Test on my own and that was a big part of my figuring out more about what I had dealt with the last time the spath lived here and this time as well. He didn’t get me to tell him about it as I think he hoped. He did get me to do my own research and see that he WAS a Sociopath. This may sound strange, but when I saw the qualifiers for a Sociopath, and I truly saw and accepted that I was dealing with one, it became a relief over time. I was so exhausted from explaining and trying to get him to read and get counseling and understand. When I realized he is a spath, it was a release for me. No more trying. No more expectations. Yes, it is still a struggle and it is tough to live next door to someone like this for the rent money when three years ago, I was being lovebombed and lured in. But, I knew for sure he didn’t want to change and he never will. It gave me the wonderful opportunity to read more about my illnesses and possible solutions to how I felt. It allowed me to start the hard work of releasing him to his mental dungeon and shine a light on the one his deeds had created for me.