Many people commenting on this blog have expressed the hope that sociopaths/psychopaths will pay in this lifetime for their evil deeds. Well, I am writing to tell you that if this is your wish, statistics are in your favor. You likely just need to wait it out because psychopathy is associated with life failure, as I will explain.
In a recent study, Psychopathic personality traits and life-success, Dr. Simone Ullrich and colleagues examined relationship success and life success in more than 300 men, they have followed for many years, these men are now 48 years old. In their study, psychopathy was not associated with success in any of life’s domains. When they examined symptoms of psychopathy the interpersonal domain (being charming and manipulative) was not related to ”˜”˜status and wealth” or ”˜”˜successful intimate relationships”. Impulsiveness and antisocial behavior reduced ”˜”˜status and wealth.” The authors state “ It is concluded that psychopathic traits do not contribute to a successful life and that the findings cast doubt on the existence of the successful psychopath.”
You may be asking, What about all the “successful psychopaths” we hear about? First of all, I believe that these are a very tiny minority. Remember that the disorder sociopathy or psychopathy is a group of impairments that I relate to an inability to love, poor impulse control and deficient moral reasoning. Confusion arises because some narcissistic individuals have impaired ability to love accompanied by grandiosity, but their impulse control and moral reasoning are not as impaired. These individuals may achieve some life success (Journal of Personality Disorders, Vol 21(6), Dec 2007. pp. 657-663). So if a person is unable to love and grandiose but not excessively impulsive or immoral, that individual may achieve some career success. But still an inability to love prevents any real relationship success.
So now you can move on. Fate and Karma will get that psychopath/sociopath. You can go about your life working as I do, on trying to love more and live better.
aptmgr – take a look at kathy’s site if you can – it explains SO much so simply.
specifically I think what might help is the area on “projective identification” where they turn everything they do to us into what they say we do to them.
i think kathy nails it when she said the worst sin someone can commit against us is to destroy our good name – to bear false witness against us – there is no defense. She speaks a lot about Job’s Comforters. Here is the link to her web content. If you agree and it helps – cut and paste into a document on your computer – Kathy is dead and her N sister now has control of the site – it could disappear anytime.
Kathy also has a book, don’t know the status of it. I ordered it and it is magnificent. Helps validate me every day.
http://www.narcissism.operationdoubles.com/npd_site_content.htm
And now for Bitch Aloha– the book is awesome, by Sherry Argov – here’s one of my favorite stories from it:
…When he goes on a hunting trip with the boys. They go out for a whole week. He sleeps in a grungy sleeping bag and gets chewed up by mosquitos…
He eats food that prison inmates wouldn’t touch. For what?
The hunt.
Then if he actually kills a moose, he comes home prouder than a peacock and wants to hang the moose head on the wall in the den.
Let’s notice something, because it is significant.
If you were to drop a dead moose on his doorstep, he’s want nothing to do with it.
It could be the very same moose he had hunted, and yet it could have a totally different effect on him.
The objective is to always give him the thrill of the chase by taking it slowly…
goodnight BITCHES.
Hi Apt/Mgr
I wonder if sin, which is someone’s personal act of turning away from God, is only a sin against God. Maybe people can’t sin against each other; maybe your husband can only sin against God, not you, but you can be injured in the process.
So, that would mean that technically you can’t forgive your husband for the sin but you can work on forgiving him for the injury.
My theology may not be accurate on this…maybe someone else has a better idea.
WOW! When I came back all the posts here were just ***JUST*** WHAT I NEEDED. This has been one of those “land mark” days I think.
I went to some friends’ house this afternoon, and stayed there and talked to them, both of them come from PSYCHOPATHIC families, and they are raising the 3 yr old granddaughter of the woman of the couple, mom is in jail and daddy is a schitzophrenic DELUX version. The child is prescious, beautiful and SMART as a tack. We talked about all the past family histories (the woman’s first husband was a Psychopathic abuser) the man of the couple had a P-mom and has no idea who his bio-fther is, mom didn’t know either. So these people CAN RELATE and we talked and talked, and I realized that today was a tough day.
Last friday Exactly a week ago) when I saw mom after I had gotten DIL to sign the truck over to mom, split the IRS check with my son, etc. and I came home that night and all of a SUDDEN got so darned ANGRY, lasted a couple of hours at worst and sort of pi$$ed off most of Saturday, I started to “feel better”
Today, though, after I ready the post Lilygirl posted right before my post today previous to this one, I just almost lost it, and after the talk with my friends all afternoon, heck it was almost a “therapy” session, I realized that I guess I am finally coming to the EMOTIONAL realization, not just the “logical” and “rational” realization that my mother is just as TOXIC as my P-son, and that my death, my DEATH, would not have been a big thing if SHE HAD GOTTEN MY P-SON HOME OUT OF PRISON BEFORE HER DEATH.
My God, I sit here now and I SEE ***THE LOOK*** the same look of rage and EVIL that my son had on his face when he became angry at me the last time I saw him, the same look that my mother gave me when I actually CAUGHT HER IN A LIE to me about sending money to the P-son after promising not to.
I SIT HERE NOW AND WEEP–I have tried and tried to DENY that my own mother didn’t care if I lived or died, I have “said it aloud” I have explained, I have twisted reality, I have hoped against hope, I have logically accepted it, but never I think EMOTIONALLY excepted it, but now all I can do is CRY. How sad I feel.
The essay by Kathy that Lily girl posted earlier, described MY MOTHER COMPLETELY. The “let’s pretend it didn’t happen”–how that discounts my value to her–demonstrates that I HAD AND I HAVE NO VALUE TO HER.
BE-TRAYED, served up on a platter like a pig roasted with an apple in its mouth. BE-TRAYED doesn’t even begin to describe what I feel.
What arrogance, that air of “moral superiority” that she exudes, the hypocritical “piousness” the public MASK, I realize that those are all the MASK–the only part of her that is REAL, that is NAKED, is what I saw those few seconds, maybe a minute two or three times in my life–the EVIL face with the CHARLIE MANSON EYES, and the LOOK, the look that seems to be looking right into the face of evil.
I’ve called her a Psychopath-by-proxy, and a pseudo-psychopath, but I realize now that I WAS SO ***SO***WRONG, she is just as much a psychopath as my son P is. She just has a more “civilalized” mask than he does.
She quotes “scripture”–HER TWISTED version of “forgiveness” that means an “I’m sorry if I offended you in any way”=total restoration of your trust and NO acknowledgement on her part that SHE did anything wrong.
You know, looking back over my entire life–I realize now that my mother has NEVER APOLOGIZED TO ME FOR ANYTHING that was any more “sincere” than the “apology” (NOT) listed above. The ONLY times she has ever EVER admitted to any kind of wrong doing was when she was caught so redhanded that there was NO gettingo ut of it and then she ALWAYS projected it back on to you, “Well, YOU lied to me before”–yea, 40 years ago when I was a freeking KID!
All I can hope for is that this is the END of it, the beginning of the end at least and that I am finally going through the last hooraw of the grieving process over HER LOSS, I don’t seem (to me at least) to have any residual “unfinished business” with my husband’s death, or the “loss” of my P-son, and sure don’t even miss the DIL, that was a blessing, and Ihe X-BF is a none issue, my P-bio father is worm food, and I never loved the Trojan Horse P and he’s out of my life, so maybe this is the final “emotional chemo treatment” before we can say REMISSION acheived, acceptence and peace have arrived.
At first it was one step forward and one back, then two forward and one back, then three forward and one or two back, but always in a forward motion it seemed, with only a few back steps now and then, but if I took a few back, it was usually a coresponding jump forward in a little while, so I am hoping that is the case with this–I am so TIRED of pain, I am so tired of discovering long buried CRAP that still stinks.
I had hardly cried a tear in pain or sadness since January, I felt like I was DOING GREAT, the Friday I realized I was still susceptible to her TOXINS–I even thought, and maybe I DID get across to her that I WILL NOT PLAY HER GAMES AGAIN. I will NOT relent and pretend that she did not BE-TRAY me.
My late husband had a saying that was so funny, especiallyy when he said it, he said “When you crap on my head it is bad, but when you slide down my nose to wipe your butt, it is TOO MUCH” (SINCE HE HAD A LARGE NOSE THAT MADE IT EVEN FUNNIER) My mom has HURT me in the past, but NEVER NEVER to this extent. She TRADED me for the Trojan Horse P, for the DIL who was an OBVIOUS (TO ME) piece of crap who was only after a “meal ticket” when she married my son, and when she started cozying up to my mom, and my murdering P-son–she TRADED me for those people becausethey TOADIED to her long enough to get her to put money and papers where they could steal them.
She didn’t even care about my son C, and as a result almost got him killed in the process. I realize too that she has not much more respect for him than she does for me. My P-son is the ONLY really important “possession” in her life, the rest of us are just “disposable baby wipes”–and used for the same purpose.
I guess the “bed” she has made for herself must be pretty uncomfortable now in the “twighlight” of her life. As I was mowing the grass tonight and musing while I mowed, I thought about something that she said –over and over and over–right before my step dad died. She said “you have taken such good care of daddy and me, but WHO will take care of Oxy, there will not be anyone to take care of oxy when she gets old like she has taken care of us”
I wondered why she kept saying that over and over–and WHY, even if it was TRUE (it isn’t) why would someone say something like that? It’s insulting and hurtful. I realize now that she WANTED me to feel worried about my “old age” and that she was CONFIDENT she had a 24/7-365 caregiver ME—well, her “bed” may not be really comfortable any more, and she is ALONE in it without anyone but a hired part time housekeeper to do her bidding–and one that is so stupid and lazy that she isn’t even good company much less a competent housekeeper (She has an degree but can’t get a job more complex than “would you like fries with that” because she has no ambition to move her butt off the sofa unless it is to go to the refrigerator) He main qualification is that she’s the daughter of a sometime acquaintence of mom’s.
I too have wrestled with the aspects of “forgiveness” and what the word MEANS in terms of what we have to do.
I don’t believe that God demands that we have a “squishy feeling” for our enemies and those that have abused us when he says “Love your enemies” or that “forgive us…as we forgive those who trespass against us” means that we have to ahve a squishy feeling in our hearts for those people we forgive.
To me, FORGIVENESS means to get the BITTERNESS out of our hearts. To let go of the WRATH (extreme anger with desires for revenge)
OUR Bitterness of heart EATS US UP, IT DOESN’T HARM THE ABUSER. Overcoming our bitterness and our wrathful feelings (my definition of forgiveness) doesn’t mean we TRUST them or FEEL all squishy and want to hug them, it means that WE are at peace and have moved on. The wounds are healed, scarred maybe, but healed over and NO LONGER HURT, the pain is gone. We still REMEMBER but we are at peace.
Accepting that we have been hurt, that we were betrayed, and served up like John the Baptist’s head on a platter, and then healing and moving on, becoming more wise in our selections of people, etc but maintaining the caring and the good parts of ourselves intact, not becoming hardened and bitter and hateful ourselves, that is “forgiveness” and healing. It sure doesn’t let the person “get away” with the debt they owe us for the damage they did to us, they still owe it to us, we just choose not to collect in the form of revenge–we leave the “Debt collection” to God and He says “vengence is mine.” The dead beat debtor will be collected from.
EYES OPENED I am going to go see the iNDIANA jones MOVIE sometime this weekend. This new guy I mentioned has kinda been my leaning post through all this madness. I have revealed too much of my self to him. I am keeping him at arm’s length. He may go too the movie with me, but friendship is all I am interested in right now, my desire for more just ain’t there….Aloha traveler It was like a death being with him…..
You’re right, Free. Marriage is too spiritually special not to make a difference.
OxyD – I think you’ve add a painful breakthrough today but one that can cleanse you and fortify you even more. I know you believe in God, so I’ll just add that I think God is very gentle in helping us along as we heal. Maybe He felt it was time to bring you up to the next level of healing…you know, a place of less fog.
Also, doesn’t it seem that just when we think we’ve got it handled, we get another educational lesson?
I remember one beautiful day I was driving through the country with no one around. I was blissed out and so sure I had conquered His lessons on this that I actually challenged him saying, “God, I am so good with this, nothing can change my mood.”
I had no sooner said that then a small car came blasting down the road behind me and honking like crazy. I had to stop to let some equestrians cross a dangerous part in the road and the driver just laid on the horn and when I turned off, screamed right past me, scaring me and the horses.
Now, I never say I’m finished with the lesson. God may still be working on it with me!
Henry
If you don’t go with him, let me know. I’ll go with you instead….same flick, just a different theater.
OxD –
I was on my way to bed. I feel so bad for you. It must feel like you just got hit in the gut with a hammer.
I hope though, that this is not a bad thing that has happened to you. I know you feel like crap right now, but as my little boy says, “After I cry, I feel better, like all the pain is out of me.”
If you are going through hell, keep going. You are not alone in this. It totally sucks that you have to go through this, it shouldn’t have happened to you and it is not fair.
When you catch your breath, don’t ask why she did this. Don’t waste your effort trying to figure out this insanity. Ask what you will do now that you know.
Read Kathy’s site, please. I urge everyone to read her site. Read her blog. There is tons, and it is dead on balls. She knew what she was talking about and not once – ever – did she ever give up on the victim.
I love how she deals with codependence. Slams it to the ground. She keeps the focus exactly where it needs to be – on the predator.
http://www.narcissism.operationdoubles.com/npd_site_content.htm
http://narc-attack.blogspot.com
None of us did anything to deserve this pain. But just because we are good people does not insulate us from crap. Good things do happen to the abusers who hurt us. It has nothing to do with God, or karma or anything.
We have to stop asking why this has happened to us. We don’t know, and never will. God is sad that this happened to us, just as we are for each other. He is with us. He is there for us. He has provided us with a way to be together.
That little book I am reading – When Bad Things Happen to Good People has been extremely comforting. It is reminding me of what I used to believe before this happened to me. I knew what was in the book, even before I read it.
I think it was how I had been living my life, believing in a God who is with us while we suffer, but who cannot and does not punish or reward us with tragedy or triumph. He is there to give us the strength we need when we are beaten down.
There is a way through this. I have a little magnet on my refrigerator:
“Just when the caterpiller thought the world had ended, it became a butterfly.”
Dear Free,
Thanks for the tissue, I sniveled through a box tonight. I threw myself a big pity party! I am a “sentimental” cryer, at sad movies, when I’m happy, etc. but it is difficult for me to just CRY out the great wracking sobs of real pain…I guess that is the “early training” I had to “let’s pretend we’re a nice normal family”—LOL But crying did make me feel better, and I think FINALLY admitting to myself that my mom’s “face”99.9% of the time is the MASK, not the REAL FACE that is so WELL HIDDEN. IN fact, I think I am probably one of the FEW if not the ONLY person who has ever seen it, so there is NO one to validate it but myself. I do know that the LOOK, an that is all I can call it is THE LOOK, maybe some of you have seen it too, I saw it in my P-bio=father’s face, I saw it in my son’s face, and the X-BF, and I SAW IT ON MY MOTHER’S FACE. It is the REAL “if looks could kill” look.
And, in a way, that LOOK DID KILL ME, it killed all chances that I would ever fall for her FOG again, it killed the notion in me, so carefully nurtured, in spite of all the REALITY of how she actually treated me, that she loved me.
I’ve had the “wake” and the “funeral” time is arriving, where I go to the graveyard of my heart and bury the ILLUSION of my mother, right next to the little boy, my, my son of so long ago that I loved so much, who disappeared and was replaced by a monster.
At the “viewing” of the “remains” the MASK WILL BE OFF, and even if I am the only one there at the “service” I will close my eyes and SEE THAT FACE OF EVIL AND EYES FILLED WITH UTTER HATE, and I will close the lid, and sink the coffin in the dirt where it belongs with the other things that crawl unseen in the darkness.
It doesn’t matter that my mother’s body still breathes or pretends to be human–I know the TRUTH. Just like my son, she must be dead to me, the illusion is DEAD. She killed it, and I saw it die, felt it die, grieved for it, and I will bury it, because I will NOT LIVE WITH IT, I won’t let it hurt me any more. I won’t expect it to love me because it can’t, it never did, I only THOUGHT it did, because I wanted it to love me and I thought it was real. Now I KNOW.
Thank you Lilygirl,
I think I posted while you were posting, thank you so much. I’m sitting here alternately cussing and bawling my eyes out. And laughing too, at how I am glad there is no one here to see my face with swollen eyes–old women don’t look great with tear swollen faces! LOL
I feel so crazy and stupid in some ways–hell here I am 61 years old crying cause my mommie doesn’t love me. WAHHHHH!!! The funny thing is that I think in my gut I knew that from when I was a LITTLE KID. She just kept gaslighting me and I kept thinking my reality was off, because SHE said it was…so now, FINALLY, I am accepting it.
Part of it I think is that she “discounts” females. I wasn’t a SON so therefore I am not of value—she discounted my son C who is a GOOD man, with a good heart,
Somehow that posted before I was done, anyway, I think she put all her eggs into one basket with my “golden child”son P, though what is so “golden” about him now I sure don’t know. LOL He is just another convict, just like the Trojan Horse P, just another low life, without any redeeeming qualities in him at all. Just another scheming, coniving con man that isn’t even very good at it.
I’ll go read those links, thank you Lily girl, Power and strength to us all! HIGH FIVE!