Many people commenting on this blog have expressed the hope that sociopaths/psychopaths will pay in this lifetime for their evil deeds. Well, I am writing to tell you that if this is your wish, statistics are in your favor. You likely just need to wait it out because psychopathy is associated with life failure, as I will explain.
In a recent study, Psychopathic personality traits and life-success, Dr. Simone Ullrich and colleagues examined relationship success and life success in more than 300 men, they have followed for many years, these men are now 48 years old. In their study, psychopathy was not associated with success in any of life’s domains. When they examined symptoms of psychopathy the interpersonal domain (being charming and manipulative) was not related to ”˜”˜status and wealth” or ”˜”˜successful intimate relationships”. Impulsiveness and antisocial behavior reduced ”˜”˜status and wealth.” The authors state “ It is concluded that psychopathic traits do not contribute to a successful life and that the findings cast doubt on the existence of the successful psychopath.”
You may be asking, What about all the “successful psychopaths” we hear about? First of all, I believe that these are a very tiny minority. Remember that the disorder sociopathy or psychopathy is a group of impairments that I relate to an inability to love, poor impulse control and deficient moral reasoning. Confusion arises because some narcissistic individuals have impaired ability to love accompanied by grandiosity, but their impulse control and moral reasoning are not as impaired. These individuals may achieve some life success (Journal of Personality Disorders, Vol 21(6), Dec 2007. pp. 657-663). So if a person is unable to love and grandiose but not excessively impulsive or immoral, that individual may achieve some career success. But still an inability to love prevents any real relationship success.
So now you can move on. Fate and Karma will get that psychopath/sociopath. You can go about your life working as I do, on trying to love more and live better.
OxD –
Your characterization of the family “Play” is accurate. I always thought of mine as the N as the author and we are all his characters.
I mean, how dare the characters of a novel tell the author that what he is writing hurts us? We are just characters, he is supposed to tell US what to do.
Tom Sawyer was not allowed to tell Mark Twain that he was too tired to paint a fence. If Twain said paint it, well by golly, Tom painted.
And if he didn’t paint it? Twain would just destroy his character. Just like he never existed. He’d replace Tom with someone new…someone who could take orders better.
Totally true.
New World – welcome. I’m glad you are here. WRITE more often. We need your input. Your advice is reasonable, wise and sound. You contribute much the way I do, without judging or forcing your views of someones situation down their throat.
It is sunny and hot here today. We are getting your rain here in northeastern PA tomorrow OxD.
Oxy,
I read an article and thought of you and your mother and others’ comments. It’s worth reading because the author does a good job defining truth vs. honesty, privacy vs. secrecy and the family behaviors surrounding them. She relates them to boundaries. She mentions narcissistic (think sociopathic) behavior and alcoholic (think dysfunctional) families, and it parallels the discussion here. Thought y’all might like reading it if you haven’t already.
It’s short, was also featured on Oprah, and is a quick read full of enlightening logic. Glad you’re soothing yourself today with God’s symphony on your roof, nothing beats it. Sent just for you and just when you need it too!
http://integrationcoach.wordpress.com/2007/03/30/private-vs-secret-and-truth-vs-honesty/
If the link won’t work, google Living With A Narcissist. It’s written by Stacy Kamala Waltman, 03/30/2007.
Benz
Hey gals, thanks to you all so much. I am doing better now. My old college pal (male) that I have been hanging with for the last couple of years since we bumped into each other unexpectedly a couple of years ago came over today for an hour to pick up some equipment I was loaning him and we talked for quite a while bout how I had been having a hard time emotionallyl. He is one of those rare people that “gets it” as he was married to first one P and then another P, then a 3-day marriage to a Con-P from the internet! LOL So he DOES get the P-thing.
Yea, it was difficult for me to LABEL my “saintly” mother a P just like my P-son. Her MASK IS GOOD and so seldom falls down around her chin. In fact, I think the ONLY person she ever showed her REAL face to was ME—she plays such dual roles too, the ENABLER role and also the PUNISHER ROLE.
It really doesn’t matter if she is a “technical” P (she doesn’t fit the PCL profile at all–very “stable” and “successful” in terms of career, only one teenaged marriage that she dumped him for infidelity and then a good steady marriage with my step father, and financially responsible, very responsible in other ways, so I am not sure if she “qualifies”—however, at the very least her punishing and selfish behavior is “P-by-proxy” and it hurts like a P does–so the label doesn’t matter, it is the RESULTS, and the RESULTS are HORRIBLE.
I do now see though, that she has NEVER cared about me, it was always how I made her look. If I did well in school, it was SHE who took the credit. If I did well in the community it was SHE who again took the credit. Nothing was ever about anything except the APPEARANCE of “success”—-
Back several years ago when I had the rural health clinic out here in the country only 4 miles from my house, it was an idilic time for me and one for her too as she gloried in my popularity with the patients and the community for the “status” it accorded our family. As my natural meat business took off as people became more aware of “eating well” and “eating naturally” and I did seminars and was requested to speak at cattle and breed events, SHE took the “glory”–it was all about the “appearances” effecting her, not about how well I was doing, or how much I enjoyed my work and the farm.
Yes, there is a big difference, BEnz between secrecy and privacy…and there is a big difference between Truth and Honesty. Mom’s always been BIG into “truth” withOUT honesty. Thanks for the link I will read it.
I feel like I have been a one of those “zillion miles an hour” trains, I have whipped from despair to calm in “record time” but I do think as we get “experience” in healing, that it makes it easier to progress as we go along with the next set of griefs.
I feel like the “boil” of my emotions has been lanced, and I can see the “healthy wound” that will heal now that the emotional Corruption has been allowed to drain off. As long as the corruption stays hidden there, the wound will never heal correctly, it will always flare up, and can become terrible and spread systemicly. I think physical and emotional wounds are so much ALIKE in that aspect. You have to debride them down to the “healthy” tissue, get rid of the rotten and dead stuff. God alone knows how much rotten and dead stuff I’ve had to surgically remove from my life. I hope that this is the final wound, the final surgery, the final amputation, but if it isn’t, I’ll keep on “treating” the wounds until they are healed properly.
I’m getting there guys and thank you all so much from the bottom of my heart for your prayers, your support and your understanding.
The part about the pity thing is right on too, as long as you feel sorry for them, pity them, the poor dears, how they suffer, even if they did bring it on themselves, you can’t disconnect from them. Yes, she IS old, an she IS in declining health, and she IS lonely and alone, but it is of her own choice, her own making and after the BE-TRAYALS I cannot ever trust her, I can’t fix her, I can only take care of myself, It is NOT my responsibility to take care of her. I HONOR my mother by being the kind of person I am, by being the kind of person who would bring HONOR on their parents by being a GOOD and a WORTHY person. I do not “honor” her by letting her destroy me, I don’t honor myself by allowing her to destroy me. Her choice is hers. My choice is mine.
Thanks again so much (((hugs))))
tks lily….and i found something else you pointed out to be most profound….we are not to truly believe in what they say, we are however to ACT as though we believe it…it is agter all a show for everyone else to see…funny he pointed out that in college he had taken drama and acting classes…when watching a movie, he would often say, ..”you kow i studied acting…”….he once or twice pointed out to me that i would put up a boundary and then if he pushed, i would let himcross it and i would make a new boundary…course if i didnt stretch my boundary, he always had one foot out the door….i was at a period..breakup of a 23 yr close, close marriage and i think i would have done anything to not have been alone, in retrospect…….WOW…i think a lot of this has to do with our families of origin as well…the biggest lesson is that we are all decent human beings here on this blog and we should feel great putting up reasonable boundaries and having expectations from those in our lives…i second the idea thatit would be really cool if some of us were neighbors…..anyone from south florida here????
Dear Newworldview,
I know about that lack of strength to do anything except get through a day. I was at least fortunate enough that I COULD retire and not have to try to work, always worried that I would make a mistake that would kill someone.
Even when I was a t my “top form” each day before I went to work I would always pray “Dear Lord, please do not let me hurt someone today or fail to find out something I need to diagnose. Don’t let me hurt someone.” I am fortunate that as far as I know God answered tht prayer as I dont’ know of a patient that my medical practice adversely impacted by either failure to diagnose or wrong diagnosis or improper care. I don’t credit myself with that though, but to my prayers and my faith in God’s mercy.
It would be nice if we could have some face to face support groups or some seminars. Aloha and several others of us have talked about that on the blog, but with so many of us living so far away, (around the world) and most of us don’t have the resources to travel great distances, and child care and all the assorted things that go with it…it would be nice though. Maybe we could tele-confrence.
I’ve even thought about at some point turning my farm, aircraft hangar, houses and barns into a safe house or a domestic violence center. I know at this time I can’t do it, I’m not ready to take on anyone else’s problems, I’m still dealing with my own, but it is a throught. I know at some time in the future I am going to want to do SOMETHING along the line of volunteer work, I’ve done volunteer workk alll my life of one sort or another, and I have retired from the volunteer fire deaprtment after nearly 15 years with them in our rural community. After my husband’s plane wreck I just couldn’t do it any more. My son D who was burned in the crash as well, just couldn’t handle being afire fighter any more either…I was a qualified fire fighter, but actually only went to medical emergencies, car wrecks etc. as that was 90% of our calls, but we did have others, and structure and wild fires. Our fire chief was so protective of me that he was so afraid something would hurt me that most of the time I just passed out water to fire fighters at fires, or sometimes would set back fires at wild fires. It was really sweet of him. He’s a big burly guy that you can’t imagine being anything but a big GRIZZLY BEAR but he is a TEDDY BEAR, and when my husband died, I was the one to comfort him as he cried like a baby. He was so big I couldn’t even reach his shoulders to hug him, he had to bend double to be in my arms. I will always remember his caring.
My son C, the one that moved out of town after his X-wife tried to kill him, he retired when he moved, but I think he may join the volunteer department where he lives now in another state. He has been talking about it.
I got my hospital that owned the clinics I worked in to let me volunteer the health care pro bono for the women and children in the local domestic violence shelters, and I strong armed the drug reps to give me samples for these women and children, many of whom had no insurance and the kids always seemed to be sick, or malnurished or both. The women were all under stress and had neglected their own health for numerous reasons. I didn’t fully understand what they were going through then, and I felt “superior” to them because I would NEVER let a man hit me–not twice–and yet, in my own arrogance I was letting others abuse me in not much more subtle ways.
This has all been a real “learning” experience for me, and one that makes me feel “odd” being on the “other side of the clipboard” seeking treatment from therapists and psychiatrists when I have always been the “medical provider” rather than the patient. I think medical people have a more difficult time admitting that they NEED HELP. We may KNOW what we need to know, intellectually, but applying it to OUR OWN LIVES and hearts is a different ball game.
I think that was a big part of my reluctance to “label” my son and even my mom. I still am not sure about what the appropriate LABEL for her medically should be–maybe more borderline personality disorder, but she doesn’t fit the criteria for that either, but some of this and some of that. Socially she is “successful” whatever she is, and everyone except me, and my two sons, sees her as an “angel” and a “saint.” Even they have never seen her in the FULL BLOWN RAGES that I have seen. She is very careful to keep her mask in place.
It doesn’t make any difference though what the “label” is–she is TOXIC and like kryptonite to Superman, she radiates pain when I am in her presence. I will figure out some way to interact with her “safely” on the business of the Trust, but it won’t be face to face ever again, and not on the phone if I can help it.
I have come to another pot hole in the “road of life” and I fell in and skinned my knee, but I’m climbing out and back on the road, thanks to you guys and I appreciate all your support. ((hugs))))
newwv –
nope, not from south florida…but we’d be happy to come and stay with you for about 3 months…heck, we’d move in…
my guy would dangle the carrots, promising exactly what i wanted – but only in voicemails, letters, through friends and emails – to get me to stop my no contact.
he would never do it when we were together. only apart.
when i thought he finally would mean his promises, i would answer and say okay – keep your promise.
he would go immediately back on his word – of course blaming me for being too demanding – he wanted to ease his way back and i was pushing for him to keep his word too soon…
my fault. so then he would create a fight to start the whole shebang over and over again.
i called it the gerbil wheel.
what i didn’t realize was that he just wanted me to pretend he was capable of keeping the promises, but to understand that he wasn’t going to keep them and he never would.
but it is funny, and i am NO sympathizer with these creeps, but i think when I would leave him and he “missed me” it was truly the only time he came close to feeling the human emotions that we feel all the time.
it was almost like he created this insanity to be able to drive me away so he could yearn for me, and pretend that he could he could do all the things he could never actually do.
what i am trying to say is that he could only feel anything close to being human when i would abandon him. i think he wanted me to leave him so he could come as close as he ever will to true human emotion.
make sense?
it’s like for us watching a sad movie that makes us cry. we know it will make us cry and be sad, but we watch anyway. it evokes emotion in us, we FEEL.
he knows he will be sad when i abandon him, and my leaving evokes the closest thing to emotion that he can feel.
i think that is truly what happens. he just wanted to keep doing that to me over and over again, and i should just pretend that i am not hurt by it.
he never even considered what it was doing to me. not for a second. it drove me to be suicidal twice in five years. i was so close i can’t even look back. too scary. i was nothing to him.
i was just a dildo in his emotional masturbation.
Dear Lilygirl,
YOU NOW HAVE THE POWER TO STOP HIM! COLD! FOREVER! You have the knowledge. I think you have done a good assessment of it.
The longing and the wanting “love” is what he wanted not the REAL THING. When he had the real thing (you) he no longer WANTED or LONGED for it, which was no fun, so he threw it down so he could WANT AND LONG for it again, REPEAT, over and over and over. How much DRAMA! No substance, but lots of drama.
This game “ain’t no fun” for the one who is REAL, (i.e. YOU) but for him it is LIFE, it is what makes it “fun” (DRAMA)
You can either chose to play or stop playing. He will never chose to stop playing. But your knowledge and your assessment give you a CHOICE he doesn’t have, will never have.
You are FREE girlfriend! Just don’t let him suck you back into his “game” of WANTING, Abandoning, and WAnting and abandoning again. For us it is too painful.
Good going Lilygirl.
ps: don’t you ever EVER consider suicide again my dear! NO ONE who loves you would make you hurt like that, so they are not worth your finger nail clippings… (((hugs))))
Lillygirl…what you said about the only thing that made him feel close to being human, yes that makes sense. My X(P) would not come home after work, sometimes all night, and his excuse was i spent the nite with friends so i could think or i slept in the car etc. Well I decided I wouldn’t be home when he got home from work. He would call me on my cell frantically asking where I was and telling me I better get home right now, crying and screaming and acusing me of being with someone. He would go into a rage if he came home and I wasn’t here. But he had a double standard, he could do it but I couldn’t. One time he left a message on my cell, it was the most painful moan of abandoment I have ever heard, it still gives me chill when I think of it. He also trashed my house that nite before I got home. Borderline Personality Disorder mention’s fear of abandoment. The way you describe it as him getting a human emotional fix makes sense to me. I think I will always feel a little guilty for purposely not being here that nite, but I cant change the past.
Ah, come on Henry! Guilty for not coming home that night!?” Give me a break! The guy dis’es you 1000 times and you didn’t come home purposely one night and you feel GUILTY–SMACK! That’s the sound of me whacking you over the head with a cyber-iron skillet! He “trashed my house that night” and YOU feel guilty! UGHHHHHHHH (sound of me grinding my teeth and pulling my hair out) LOL
BTW how was your CYBER DATE to the movies! ha ha
Yea the push pull push pull is really Borderline–but having one personality disorder doesn’t keep you from having another and/or other mental illnesses, etc. as well. Like the article Liane wrote about the people with Bi-polar up to 37% I think it was had PPD as well. I think the addition of another mental problem is more geometric than arithmatic too, in stead of 1+1=2 it is 2 Squared for problems=4 Or like the earth quake Richter scale, each one is 10 X more strong than the number before it so R1 is 1 and R2 is 10 and R3 is 100 and so on so it gets worse FAST the more problems you add.
Then if you throw in all the just “ordinary” dysfunction that goes with having “problems” in the first place and learning bad coping methods it really gets crazy FAST.
I think too that they know that we have SOMETHING GOOD that they WANT, they aren’t sure what “it” is, but they know we have something (we call it empathy, love, caring, you name it) and they see that we enjoy this “thing” but they can’t find it, they want it, and they go from person to person hoping that each one will make THEM feel this “mysterious” THING that we feel that they can’t. But they are always disapponted and never get the “gold ring.” All they can grab on to is the DESIRE for the “mysterious thing” never grab it. Their ring is always the brass one, never the GOLD one. They are always disappointed. So they settle for the control, or the risk taking, or the adreniline rush.
BTW, Henry, I really am seriously proud of how you are doing, and I know it isn’t always easy (gosh do I know that!) but you have come SO FAR in such a short time! Congratulations! (((hugs))))
Ditto for you too, Lilygirl! ((hugs))))
Henry
What did you think of Indiana Jones? It was an E-ticket rollercoaster ride!
Glad I went …I was thinking about you.