By | March 16, 2011 54 Comments

RESOURCE PERSPECTIVES: Why sociopaths sometimes kill themselves

Editor’s note: Resource Perspectives features articles written by members of Lovefraud’s Professional Resources Guide.

Sarah Strudwick, based in the UK, is author of Dark Souls—Healing and recovering from toxic relationships. She has also created a wonderful animation that describes the antics of a sociopath, called Exposing the Mask of Insanity. View the animation here.

The sociopath’s unconscious death wish

By Sarah Strudwick

Sarah Strudwick profile in the Lovefraud Professional Resources Guide

I recently received an email from one of my readers saying that her husband and mother, who are both sociopaths, had suicide clauses in their wills, so I decided to write an article on the sociopath and suicide. Many people think that sociopaths never commit suicide, but I beg to differ.

For those who aren’t already aware, many of those who have symptoms of sociopathy often have other personality disorders such as narcissistic personality disorder. In fact, it’s one of the reasons why when I wrote Dark Souls that I grouped the two personalities together. Whatever we decide to call these people, whether it be sociopaths, psychopaths, or narcissists, the DSM-5 has now decided to propose putting narcissistic personality disorder in with the “psychopathic type personality.”

So what do all of these psychopathic types have in common? A need for admiration, narcissistic supply and attention. When the attention runs dry, they will resort to any number of tactics, using guilt, blame, anger, and so on, to get their needs met. I saw a very unnerving video from a death row inmate in the U.S. where the guy is asked why he did what he did to others and how he felt about being and death row. He said, “Because I just want to die.”

My encounters

I recently heard of an old acquaintance who I had had the misfortune of being friends with many years ago. He recently died under strange circumstances, although it appears he committed suicide when he got caught out. He was one of the psychopathic type personalities, a loner, a user with a distinct liking of hurting animals and children. I wondered whether the sociopath has an unconscious death wish.

Sociopaths have a distinct lack of impulse control, coupled with their own lack of remorse. My own ex threatened to commit suicide a couple of times when I said I would leave. Of course he never did it. Each time I was gullible enough to take him back.

My own sociopathic father even made a half-hearted attempt at doing it when my mother decided enough was enough. When finally asked in counseling why he did it, he replied, “It seemed like a good idea at the time.” My view is that it was more like he was concerned he wouldn’t have supply any more, and he knew that killing himself would hurt everyone, including his children.

The ultimate gesture

Often you will see headline cases in newspapers where sociopaths go on killing sprees and then just as they are about to be caught out, they turn the gun on themselves as the ultimate “f*ck you,” so that they cannot be brought to justice.

Most of us who have lived around sociopaths know that their sole need is to use others, and unless they are receiving attention, then their lives aren’t really worth living. Take the likes of Ted Bundy and Charles Manson. In their warped way, I am sure they love all the adoration they receive.

Some normal people may want to be come famous. They may be driven by a desire to do something good and succeed.

A sociopath doesn’t care about being successful or doing good. They don’t care whether or not they are “famous” or “infamous.” They don’t mind having a bad name or being associated with something detestable, which is why so many celebrities who have sociopathic tendencies will be more than happy to appear in the news doing pretty much anything just to get headlines.

Here in the UK all serial killers are hated hence our most famous psychopath, Fred West, hanged himself before trial, despite being on suicide watch. Thus he was never tried for his heinous crimes, which included raping his own 13 year old daughter and chopping up a few dead bodies.

But the moment the supply runs out for the sociopath, then what?  They are happy with punishment in the form of everyone either hating them, which is why so many thrive in prisons. The worse thing people can do is ignore them, in which case they have nothing more to do than look at four walls, and put them in isolation, so they have to “talk to the hand” and have to face their own souls and miserable existences. And since they hate being ignored and probably died along time ago, what better way to be remembered than to give the ultimate “F*ck you” by blowing their own head off, or hanging themselves off the end of a bedpost in the hope they will have some kind of recognition?

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Ox Drover

Good article Sarah, Thanks for your insight on this….unfortunately, not all of them consider themselves failures—ever—some actually seem to THRIVE in what circumstances a “normal” person would consider ABSOLUTE FAILURE…prison for life. Charlie Manson, for example, seems to be in his element in prison. My psychopathic son, though of course wishing he could get out of prison, still seems to consider himself a rousing success because he is smarter than the average prisoner and most of the guards, so he has an endless supply of people to try to work his petty cons on, which in a way, is “heaven on earth” to him, especially since he always considers himself SUPERIOR to everyone else and is never to blame for anything that goes badly….it is always someone else’s fault. I see little to no chance that he would kill himself, but there are others I have seen in the news that don’t surprise me when they kill themselves because they perceive they have lost control, and the act of killing themselves is the ultimate “fark you!” to the authorities and the world.

The poor suffering souls though who are not psychopathic who do commit suicide in order to escape their own suffering (many times CAUSED by a psychopath and/or their own mental illness and inability to cope) to be lumped into the same catagory of “suicide” with the psychopaths is a shame.

Thank you again for this thought provoking article.


Remembering that impulsivity and not thinking through decisions is one of the hallmarks of a sociopath, it does not surprise me that once in a while, a sociopath commits suicide. Unfortunately (or ultimately fortunately), it’s the last impulsive act.


I have not read this article yet and I’m going to bed now (will read it tomorrow) (eyes hanging out of head, 1.13am here) BUT I wanted to say something a little flippant here about:

“Why sociopaths sometimes kill themselves”?





Ox Drover

Dear CA mom,

I think you have summed up as well as can be summed up the HATEFUL EVIL INTENTS of psychopaths and yours in particular in taking his own life.

I also hope that by understanding that, you can put away any “guilt” that you might have even in the back of your mind for what he did.

I know that NC, that ultimately losing control drives them wild, and that they do go from pity to whines to rage and anger and accusing us, they flip from one emotion that worked in the past to the next one, like a whirling dervish going round and round so fast that it is almost impossible to see between the “pity me” and the “raging/blaming” ploys. During the short period of time when NONE of my family members (even my egg donor) were writing my P son, his letters were all over the map from pleas to rage, he wrote everyone he could think of asking them to call my egg donor and “see how she is” because she wasn’t writing him and so he just knew something was wrong with her. She would hang up on anyone who called at that time. Eventually, she did give in to sending him money and lying to us and we cut off contact with her because she refused to stop sending him money and to stop lying to us, but it WAS INTERESTING to see just how quickly he between one emotional fake and a different completely emotion from pity to rage and back again.

I don’t think mine would commit suicide actually….because he won’t give up pounding on the “levers” –as in the past —like the rat in the intermittent reward research, he has eventually gotten some kind of reward if he pounds on that “lever” enough times, and I don’t think he would want to miss that feeling of reward by not being around to see it. LOL

He never sees the X numbers of times of pounding on the lever and getting nothing as a failure—just what he has to do to succeed, and HE IS IN HIS MIND A SUCCESS no matter how many times he gets nothing.

I do hope you can see your X’s final attempt at controlling your feelings as a TOTAL LOSS FOR HIM and a RELIEF for you, rather than as something you could have prevented or caused—because it had nothing to do with YOU and EVERYTHING TO DO WITH HIM. God bless you, CA Mom. (((hugs))))



kim frederick

CAmom, Wow. Talk about being re-traumatized, and knowing he did it deliberatly. He knew how damaging it was to you to have to talk your Dad out of blowing his brains out. Yeah, that is evil.

I do remember this happening, last summer. That is really pretty recent…I am amazed that you sound as together as you do. (((((healing white llight)))))).

Ox Drover

Dear CAmom,

I have never been very close to suicide though a former foster kid I kept when he was in high school that I had kept in touch with killed himself 4-5 years ago—suddenly and no note even, but it is obvious it was a suicide that he had planned as he had called most of his friends and said “goodbye” though they didn’t realize it until it was a done deal. I know his death had a horrible impact on his step kids, and his wife and his biological mother. He came from a very dysfunctional family with an abusive P father and an enabling mother. He also wasn’t the brightest bulb in the lamp either.

I do know that in many cases the suicide is the final FARK YOU to people the person hates or blames, but many times it is also the last resort for people who are depressed and hurting. My former foster son was on anti-depressant medications and sometimes people who are VERY depressed if given anti-depressant meds get better ENOUGH to kill themselves. That is a fairly well known side effect. Which is why I was very careful about giving meds to people who were very depressed without also getting them some counseling and keeping close watch on them for signs of suicidal ideation or intent. I actually think that is what happened with my former foster son, but don’t know for sure. Doesn’t matter at this point though, because no way to undo it and no reason his family should feel any worse about it.

Many times out psychopaths know just which button to push to produce the most pain possible….and if your father was always threatening to kill himself and you had to rescue him, then I am sure your X knew this and used that SUPER DUPPER PAIN PRODUCING BUTTON to try to get the MAX PAIN EFFECT out of you. WHAT EVIL creatures they are, but they DO know how to stick the knife in the most sensitive spot and JUST HOW TO TWIST IT.

Which is what finally released me I think from the pressure of my egg donor’s twisting the knife in my most sensitive spots—trying to gain her approval—I realized finally that not only could I never gain it, but that I REALLY DIDN’T WANT IT ANY MORE.

She kept holding out financial incentives for me to suck up to her and that didn’t work, so she tried the ultimate insult and pain to relieve me of my home and my community standing, and she finally realized I think that I don’t give a rat’s behind about any of it any more, I can walk away now because I KNOW I CAN SURVIVE OKAY WITHOUT ANY OF IT. I didn’t know that before. NOW I do.

Now, you know you can survive the WORST that can be, and that his behavior, his actions, even his evil attempt to make you responsible for his death WON’T GET YOU DOWN AND KEEP YOU DOWN. YOU WILL SURVIVE. YOU will THRIVE! He is still dead, guess what? He loses, YOU WIN! You are free from him, free from his evil stalking. Don’t feel guilty about being relieved. I would really be relieved if my son were dead because I’d never have to worry about him getting out of prison. I don’t wish him dead, but I don’t wish him alive either…I’m just tired of looking over my shoulder so it would be a relief if he were dead.


Also – imagine the DRAMA of the build-up to the act; as CAmom says, her spath would have experienced immense satisfaction at the thought of her reading the letter and buying into the self-blame and the guilt that he tried to heap on her.

Then there’s the DRAMA of the thought of someone finding your body and being horrified, sickened and probably saddened; all of these outcomes, while repulsive to those of us who are normal, would be delicious and exciting to a spath.

I’m totally with Oxy on this CAmom – “He loses, YOU WIN! You are free from him, free from his evil stalking. Don’t feel guilty about being relieved. I would really be relieved if my son were dead because I’d never have to worry about him getting out of prison. …..I’m just tired of looking over my shoulder so it would be a relief if he were dead.”

I had not yet read the article when I commented briefly last night, but now that I have done so, I stand by what I said.
“Why sociopaths sometimes kill themselves”?

It IS good luck for the victims they leave behind. A chance to heal and move on UNHINDERED by the monster that sucked them dry and vaccuumed them hollow. A chance to RELAX into the things that must be done to heal – because even healing from one of these aberrations is exhausting. It is so difficult to do when their attempts to either suck us back in or demonise and harrass us are continually being played out.

CAmom – what your spath did to you while he was alive was disgusting (and that includes writing the letter and planning its effect on you); the minute he stopped breathing, though, all of his plans back-fired and you won the lottery. It doesn't matter that he went to his grave believing otherwise, because everyone here knows the truth.

Most importantly of all, YOU know the truth. And the TRUTH is, you win – in more ways than you might ever realise.

I wish you peace and calm and healing and nice smells and pretty things and beautiful music and good friends and – LIFE.


Ox Drover

Aussie girl,

You sure have a way with words, dolly! “Just plain bloody good luck” Yep, that is [email protected]

Gosh I wish I’d learn to wear gloves when I garden and work outside, my poor hands are all scratched up—look like I’ve been digging potatoes with my bare hands! Splinters and scrapes and nails torn to the quick! Band aids all over the place! LOL

Well, I’m tired and going to bed. not much going on here tonight anyway! You guys are waaaay too laid back today! Except for Hens lusting after the cable guy! LOL I’ve been here by myself—maybe I need to think about calling the cable company! LOL Give me something to think about anyway! G’nite (((hugs))))


And BTW – I will openly admit that I DO wish that the Superspath would die. He is of no use whatsoever to any person, creature or cause on this earth.

All he brings to those he touches is drama, distress, decay and destruction. If he was an animal, we would choose to euthanise.

Just this week, having learned last week when we were in court, that I intend to call his mother, his sister, his de facto and his other ex-wife as witnesses at our upcoming trial, he has begun another vicious campaign.

First he called his stepson (the wife prior to me already had a son when she married him, then they had a son together, who was the one that I ended up step-mothering) and told him that he was going to subpoena him for the trial, to give evidence against his own mother that she was an unreliable witness because she used to smoke hash years ago. (We had to laugh, actually, because how confident must you be to go to THAT length? He can’t find anyone to back up his LIES so he has to try to find people who might be able to DISCREDIT my witnesses who he knows will be able in court to CONFIRM the TRUTH that I will be telling…) So – the stepson (who is now 26) says to him, “That’s fine, I will come to court. But if you ask me about mum smoking dope, then I will tell the court that she smoked it because YOU GREW IT and USED TO SELL IT!!!!!” (Which is the truth)

Angry and pithed at that, Superspath then starts to send abusive text messages to the ex-wife prior to me (wife2, mother of the young man he just phoned). He threatens her, threatens that if she helps me BOTH of her boys will be called to evidence in court, including the now-16-year-old son, who now lives with her, but who used to lived with spath and I for 4 years as my stepson.

Thankfully, wife2 has had enough of him and now that we have joined forces, is finding the strength to take action against spath. She tells him that she does not play his games anymore and orders him to cease contact with her. He sends her messages threatening me also. She calls me, we talk and she forwards all messages through to my mobile (cell) phone as well, so that we both have evidence of his threats.

Yesterday, I reported spath for Child Support fraud on behalf of wife2 – he has not paid her anything towards his son’s upkeep in over 3 and a half years. He claims to have no money and no income. Unfortunately for spath, I have proof of how much money he has had, how much he still has in one of his bank accounts and how much he has been spending or disappearing. I have bank statement copies. I also have proof that he has some kind of income coming in from somewhere. Come the trial in a few months time, and I will have ALL the gorey details because if he doesn’t hand them over, I will subpoena them.

I have evidence that she needs to prove that he is ripping her off and she has evidence that I need for my case.

Together, we have enough evidence to hopefully put him away for insurance fraud and social security fraud.

One thing at a time…..

So, to conclude, let me just go back and qualify what I said at the beginning: I will openly admit that I DO wish that the Superspath would die – JUST NOT BEFORE WE NAIL HIM.


Goodnight Ox! Sleep tight and sweet dreams. XXXX


CAmom, how can one act (your spath killing himself) cause so much damage and yet do so much good at the same time? That’s the enigma of sociopathy. Of course the good is that there is one less spath in the world.

super chic

Love you CAmom.


That makes me smile, Aussie!! 🙂 That has to be refreshing for you!


They would kill themselves to get back at someone. It would have to be a last resort sort of thing.

CAmom, there is nothing to feel guilty about, ever. He was manipulative until the very end. Nothing you could have done would have made an iota of difference in the outcome. He couldn’t take no contact, pure and simple.

Your example of what a spath can do when we go no contact is why we go no contact. It is our way of ‘winning’ over the spath and their manipulations. Like Charlie Sheen says (spath that he is), we’re winning. He also uses the word troll to describe people, he’s actually describing himself and others like him.


Yes indeed they do commit sucide when they need to hit you the last time. I know us survivors of the sociathpath who commit sucide do heal in time and move forward.
My experince was a 20 year marrige of mental and physical abuse, his last resort one month after the divorce to get back was he hung himself. He hurt his family so badly my keds are much better now six years later. I give them all the love and support I can. His mom is going to always be sad of this and I must say she is a sweetheart,she could not help her son’s doings.
God and love heal us all God bless all of you who are hurting from someone who took their life. I myself missed up again with another bad man and did not see the true colors until it was too late. He was a conman and such sweetness and conviencing to me at the time. He befriended me through my loss of my ex deceased and took total advantage of the situation. I beleived in him with all my heart, and was so hurt once I discovered the truth. All of you who are mourning be very careful who to trust you are not seeing as clearly now and need time to heal. I made some really bad mistakes because I did not give myself time to heal, and I did not see the evilness hidden behind this conman.
I did write a story on this site of him,”Looking into the eyes of a conman “. He was a gentle man he played his part well.He knew all I was wanting to have in my life.It was devasting to find out he was only acting his part out in his play of using me.
Now past a year of a evil man I am with a for real good man and he knows all the hurt I have, and is so understanding. I now know what love is suppose to be like amazing it took so long ….! God has let me meet a good man who I can be with thankyou God.


When my ex committed suicide a friend said to me ‘it was a release for me and a relief for his tormented soul’. It helped me to make sense of it all.


Hey candy yes indeed that surely does make sense of it all…. God bless……!


Eclipse. Thank you. So pleased that you have found happiness.
God works in mysterious ways…


girl4235 –

“That makes me smile, Aussie!! 🙂 That has to be refreshing for you! ”

Thanks – it IS! I would probably smile about it too, if I had the time…unfortunately, all I have done for the past week is type reams of documentation for the trial.

As much as I want this over with so that I finally have some kind of closure with the spath, I am finding that having to go back over my evidence and other people’s witness statements and compile it all for court (I can’t afford a lawyer), is causing me a resurgance of the terrible anxiety I lived with for most of the time we were together and then for a good couple of years afterwards.

It’s just awful – I catch myself grinding my teeth, clenching my jaw, frowning, holding my breath and then hyperventilating, getting shivers down my spine and butterflies all the way from the base of my stomach to the top of my throat (they are in there flapping away right now!), my palms are sweating and my sleep pattern has flown the coop. I know it’s just nervous energy for the job that must be done, coupled with a small dose of residual PTSD thrown in for good measure, but I really resent having to feel this way physically. Stupid spath!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mentally, I am not concerned about the outcome of a trial (maybe I should be, but I’m not). The Family Court is evidence-based where property matters are concerned and I have receipts, witnesses and documentary evidence of every statement I have made in court (that would be because I am telling the truth…) The Superspath has nothing to back up his lies and has resorted to threatening my witnesses and his best shot so far has been to try to enlist witnesses to DISCREDIT my witnesses; just shows he’s desperate, I guess. As far as spaths EVER feel desperate. Which is good.

(Star, if you are reading this, look away now) It is making me think of the venomous snake I had to kill in my chicken/duck pen some weeks back. I stood out of its reach (so I could not get bitten) and then I whacked it with all my strength with a nail-rake. It was impaled under one of the nails and was twisting and turning and thrashing about wildly. I got a spade and chopped its head off but snakes keep moving for a long time after they are dead. That’s how I imagine the spath right now – he’s under a nail in my rake but he’s not out for the count just yet. Even when he goes down, he will be thrashing about, crying foul, changing the subject, diverting attention elsewhere.

I was able to watch the snake die and then dispose of its body.
Unfortunately, I won’t be able to do that with the spath, but I do hope to at least keep him pinned for a while and wear him out a bit. With any luck, he will end up in jail by the time we have finished with him. Maybe some nice big criminal type will finish him off in there for me? One never knows one’s luck. 🙂


I believe my youngest son’s dad was a sociopath. He was everything I have learned about sociopaths.

He took his life. He lost at gambling after he stole his mothers savings.

I always thought he was too mean and self important to take his own life. I was wrong.

I don’t know why his death surprised me. I always knew that either he would die by his own reckless actions, or his con game would run dry.

After his death his sister emailed the most recent picture of him. I noticed his hand looked mangled like parts were missing. The sister never gave me an answer about it.

He had no thought for safety. I remember him spraying bug spray at the ceiling while the ceiling fan was running. He blinked when the spray got him in the eyes and he refused to flush his eyes with water.

Or another time when he got on my weight bench (with weights) on the wrong end and it almost flipped over on him, but I was quick to steady the light end.

Another time he insisted on driving into a ravine cause he excitedly said the road we needed was across this ravine. Everything with this man was endless fighting and arguing to stop him from this madness.

He stole endless amounts of cash out of my bank account and told me that I must have been sleep walking to the ATM. Another time he told me the guy in line behind him must have stolen my password. Of course I didn’t believe this, but he always got his way by screaming at me. He would scream all day and all night if that is what it took.

He was mean and hateful to me and my kids. He saw us as servants in HIS house, and not very good servants at that.

I told him to get out. He taunted me and said “Make me”. Or he would say “I am not leaving, and what are you going to do about it?” I had no clue how to do it. Can you call the police and say this man is mean and I want him out of my house even though his mail comes here and he has established residency? And, it could be seen as nothing but retailiation because he was calling the police constantly on me.

Each time the police told me that I will go to jail if they get called back.

I finally had the police remove him. I figured out to call his probation officer. She arranged to have him removed.

The reason why he was on probation is because of what he did to me on a prior occasion. He was threatening me and my family saying he has Mafia ties. When I tried to call the police, he knocked over kitchen chairs to get to phone first, and he ripped the phone off the wall. My daughter, heard this commotion, and called the police on the extension upstairs.

So why did he take his life?

He seemed to be able to play his game and it didn’t matter too much when it ended cause he always found a new game to play.

What was different at the time when he took his life?

Could it be that he was the runt of the litter, even though he was 6’0 and 200 LB? His brothers are 6’4 and heavier. Could he have been afraid of what they would do when they found out he robbed their mother?

Could it be that I dug a ditch around him when I was hunting him down on internet cause he was stealing our son’s identity? It was around that time that he took his life.

Or was it only because he had no purpose in life. He wanted to lay on the couch, and be the king, and he ran out of willing women who have a couch.

He was whistling and singing Amazing Grace for a couple of weeks before he took his life. He was mainly heard singing “who saved a wretch like me”


I believe when the feel they are out of ‘supply’ this is always an option.

It’s a final punishment to the victims.
Nobody healthy could be the surviving victim and not feel any ‘afterthoughts’ of what if questions.
They do everything grandios…….those that choose suicide will be no different.

CAMom……girl….I’m so pleased you are coming to the point of healing and the truth behind his horrid actions against you.
You are NOT responsible…….and you now know this.
You sound so healthy……as sad as it’s all been for you.
Kudo’s to you, Kudo’s darlen!!!!



I just saw this page. This is where I should’ve looked first & posted the message about J’s hanging himself. I have much to add to this conversation, & will look forward to all your comments. Must close now, but will be back tomorrow.


I feel the same way as all of you do. If they do take their own lives what are we missing? I would not be hurt or sad at all to hear news about that. I feel like a horrible Christian for saying this but I am so hurt and angry that I WILL never forgive my spath for the cold calculated game he played with me. He is so cruel as they are all that…happen riddens.

Ox Drover

Dear Seriously,

You are justifiably angry right now….you have been betrayed. Let your anger motivate you to do what you have to do…there will come a time when you no longer need that anger and you can get the bitterness out of your heart, but right now…the anger is justified, and even Jesus was angry at injustice. (((hugs)))


CA Mom, candy and jeannie,and any others of you whose ex spaths have committed suicide.
Its only natural ,I think, for you to feel SOME grief, but,DONT ever let them convince you it was your fault! As Oxy said, it the ultimate “Fark You!! They did it, for whatever reason. We can only REJOICE that there is one less Spath in the world, and maybe at least their ashes can help a tree or a plant grow.{On the other hand, mybe their ashes are so toxic that the plant dies!}
NOT YOUR FAULT, EVER!DONT let their final “F you” act lay any blame on you .They are sick F–ers.
Its sad in a way, even tho they were subhuman, once they were helpless babies, and presumably their Mums loved them.
Seriously, No you are not unchristian for feeling anger and hurt, as Oxy says even Christ was angry at times.
Love, and {{{{HUGS!!}}}
Mama gemXX


I think some sociopaths kill themselves as proof that there IS a God.


The spath was a diabetic who refused to control his blood sugar or high blood pressure by taking his medication or altering his diet. During an argument once I was so shocked that he actually rubbed his temples and said “I wish I could just stroke out and get it over with.” WHAT?!?

Another time we were at the store, and an elderly man in a wheelchair who needed assistance caught his attention. The spath said, “I’m jumping off a bridge before I get to that point.”

Again, I didn’t understand then what I was dealing with, but unfortunately I do now. Fortunately, NOT MY PROBLEM ANYMORE!

Ox Drover


They are pretty good at denial, and I think to one extent or another we all are—as well as them–I know I smoked (and hey, I’m a health care professional, I know it is bad…!!!!!!) I gained too much weight KNOWING I have Type II DM in my family, and guess what! Yea, you got it! Diabetes…but I finally got out of my recto-cranial inversion (got my head out of my butt!) and got on the band wagon and quit smoking, went to a wt. loss diet, and so far have lost 30+ pounds and my blood sugar is fine now…but it has been WORK…. and unfortunately, psychopaths are not generally willing to do any WORK to take care of themselves, they want what they want by someone else’;s efforts and let me tell you, Baby-cakes, that ain’t gonna work when it comes to diet and exercise., I don’t care how Nish you are, or how rich, THERE ARE SOME THINGS YOU MUST DO FOR YOURSELF. You can’t hire someone to do it for you.

Denial is a way of life for them, but sometimes we let it become a way of life for us as well….but I am determined to start facing REALITY and taking care of myself.

At least he is not your problem any more! WHOOPIE!!!!! Valley Girl 1; Psychopath ZERO!!!!!!!

Hope to heal

Dear Seriously – the hurt and anger is justified for sure!

The part about forgiving the spath?? I’m not so sure that’s a requirement. It’s up to God to forgive. You have no obligation to forgive such a cold, calculating creature. I hesitate to call them people, since I truly feel that they are less than human. To call them that, would imply that they feel some sort of humanity. They don’t seem to feel ANYTHING at all. The remind me of reptiles. Cold blooded predators. No offense to the snake lovers in the crowd 🙂

My hope for you is that you can learn to forgive yourself. I believe it is human nature to hold ourselves at least partially responsible for the things that happen to us. EVEN when we are not at fault in the least! Of course, that does not apply to spaths, who have no conscience at all!


Thank you. I’m angry and its been six months out of the relationship. I don’t have to forgive him. I don’t have to feel bad or sad if he dies. I have taken responsibility for my part. All 63000 of it. I will never trust words from humans mouths but actions. What I have learned the most is trust your gut instincts. People don’t change unless they truly want to or are able to.


Mama Gem Bullshit and Spath ashes’- sound’s like a new fertilizer to me..
My x cut his wrist on my front porch one time, to prove how much he loved me,wasnt bad enuff to call 911 but as I was cleaning him up I noticed lot’s of previous scars on his wrist. Poor guy, well I fell for it, took him back, felt so sorry for him, yada yada..Then another attempt with pill’s, that didnt work but I took him to the bus station with money for a ticket home, where ever that was..6 hours later he was back again. I swear the main reason he was here so long was because I felt so sorry for him, I mean nobody wanted him, not even his mother..So eventually he found a new target and moved on, but my NO CONTACT really farked with his ego, I just simply refused to dance to his tune, he got bored, went away..
I talked to one of his many X’s before me one time about the cut wrist and he said, Oh Yeah – I guess he cut himself up so bad one time at a gay motel “The Sociopath Inn” that he was locked up in a physc ward and was banned from the “Inn”.
I have read about ‘cutters’, sometime’s their reality get’s so intense they cut themselves to escape it…Sad sad sad…Has been 3 years now, but If I heard he had killed himself I would be very upset. But not near as upset as had he done it while living with me..Camon… did nothing to provoke your x’s death, you were just at the wrong place at the wrong time….
Star ….do what? God? I think for most people suicide is a coward’s way out. But some people really can only find peace in death, so I dont judge…..

Ox Drover

Dear Hens,

The frequent and repeated “suicide gestures” (though sometimes they actually end up doing it while just pretending to want to) are used as manipulation attempts…it is the DRAMA QUEEN/KING thing, and usually is more frequent with females than males…that feeling sorry for them is the key thing….and they hook you back into taking care of them.

Yep, you are also right that NC farks with their ego and they want to keep that control, that manipulation and can’t “take it” that we will refuse to converse with them. NC is very frustrating to them…it is the ULTIMATE frustration, the ultimate refusal, the ultimate taking back of our OWN CONTROL. How DARE WE?!!!!! LOL


I’m glad this article is called “Why Sociopaths SOMETIMES Kill Themselves”. I think there are a lot of categorical assumptions that don’t necessarily apply to “The Sociopath”, rather than Some Sociopaths. I do understand the “sociopath’s unconscious death wish” tag line, but I’m not sure I agree with the gist of the article. I think a lot of people have “unconscious death wishes”. And I don’t think that Manson & Bundy are the types of sociopaths that most of us here have Personally Experienced.

About 10 yrs ago, I did a lot of research on the psychological motivations for using specific methods of suicide. I can’t remember where I found it, &, being so long ago, I don’t remember all of it, & I can’t seem to find it on the Internet now. At any rate, there was suggestion that yes, shooting yourself, especially in the “blowing your head off” manner was often intended as an
“ultimate F*** You”…..purposeful disfigurement & bloody mess for the person who finds you like that. A way of saying “see what you did to me, & I hate you.”

They suggested that taking pills or injecting, & simply laying down to go to sleep, so to speak, was a way of saying “I’m just too tired to go on….I just can’t make it thru this any longer.”

I don’t remember the slitting wrists in the bathtub motivation all that well now, but it had something to do with deep despair. But that plain old wrist-cutting is often just a way to purposely hurt oneself, & not necessarily done seriously, but a way of getting attention to one’s pain or hurt.

Hanging was interpreted as a sign of sorrow, often of remorse, & as a way of saying, “I’m sorry for what I did & I want you to have compassion for me in my sorrow & to give me forgiveness.”

Now, I don’t know how much of this applies across the board, but it makes sense to me. And I think it applies in J’s case.

As I said on the other thread, I just found out Friday nite that J had hung himself in Pto Escondido, Oax on 2/22/11.
It wasn’t a FU, & it wasn’t a need for recognition. I wasn’t there, hadn’t heard from him since July, but as you all know, I have kept up with some of what’s gone on with him. And I’ve followed his chart progressions & transits, & I’d seen an explosion of some kind coming up. I thot it would probably be legal or financial or even marital…..& I’m sure it was a combination of all of those. He’d come to the end of a road & found there was no way to turn around, no way to exit to the side, & no way forward. The only way was out.

He was an exceedingly brilliant man. He could’ve done so many things so many other ways, but he chose to try to get there thru deception, “baffling with his bullshit”. Like so many other SPs & Ns we’ve talked about here, he was able to come up with great ideas, one right after another, & to convince people that Yes, it was possible to build a bridge to the moon & he knew exactly how to do it & he could explain every detail with total plausibility. He just really just couldn’t Build the Bridge.

And he’d left disasters in others’ lives on his way down his road…..ones that he always minimized, of course. But his wife of 25 yrs died of breast cancer & 9 yrs of severe depression. His “successful” Ecstasy manufacturing lab was busted & he went into flight, & his son had to go into flight also because of it. His daughter never spoke to him after that, & it’s been 10 yrs now. His son & d-i-l & grandchildren went to join Jamie & his wife Tracy on this grand adventure in Mexico, & I’ve just found out that, yes, as I’d thot, the d-i-law did leave Mx & return to NJ with the children because J & T were drinking so heavily & so constantly, & the son was drinking with him, & would defend his father to her, & she didn’t want the children around any of it. So he destroyed his son’s marriage, too, & left his grandchildren kids of divorce.

And he left me & my life in what I thot would be ruination forever. And he seduced this naive, rt-wing conservative, West Texas, born-again fundamentalist christian woman of wealth & family status into this 4yr affair & marriage. And there they were in Mexico…..he without a job, unable to work because of the $7mil lawsuit for breach of contract against him, probably with legal fees piling up, $78K past due in taxes, living off a wife who he married for her money.

I’m sad for him. I’m very sad for him. I wanted him to be sorry…..I wanted what he did to me to haunt me for the rest of his life, (& told him just that several times) & to have to remember it, & know it was wrong…..I wanted him to feel bad. I did NOT want his life to succeed in any way. And it didn’t. And he did feel sorrow….whether for me, or for himself, or his wife, or his family…..he did feel great sorrow…..enough to hang himself——even while living in a fine home on a hill in an expensive area of Puerto, overlooking the ocean, with all the money his wife & her monied family have.

I have forgiven him. Nobody told me that, “as a Christian”, I HAVE to forgive him. I forgive him because I AM a Christian. I don’t have it in me to not forgive someone after they’ve suffered & died—-no matter what they did to me or how much of the suffering they brot on themselves. My life wasn’t ruined forever. He’s dead. It’s over for him, but my life goes on & I’ve come alive again. And I know now, absolutely, that this whole experience came into my life for a reason…not to make me different but it make me strong……not to punish me or make me punish myself….but to prepare me for a purpose & a direction that I never knew was out there. And yes, in spite of the pain Jamie left me in, he also left me with a million good things that will serve me & others in whatever it is I’m to do with my future.

I could not find that forgiveness while he was still alive. I could not forgive him for what he did to me, knowing that he was out there, living happily, scot-free. I could not release that anger & pain & knot in my heart. He released me. I didn’t see him walk thru the door, but I saw the dark door slowly close in the distance. & the picture faded. The End. I saw the picture in the Mexican newspaper of him hanging by a rope on his fine balcony overlooking the ocean. And I saw infinite ultimate sorrow. And I forgave.
And I pray that God received him as the very flawed, but beloved Child of God that he was. Even children who’re possessed by demons are beloved children of God & are welcomed in his arms.

Ox Drover

Dear Yes,

I’m glad that you have found peace! ((((hugs))))


Thank you, Oxy. ((((hugs back to you))))




CAmom I am glad you are talking about it, it helps me understand what your feeling. Goodness he was a fucked up person. I am glad he did not take you with him, alot of sick bastards like him do that ya know. Also in my opinion alot of physciatrist are as fucked up as they come. I am sure I will get flack for that but oh well – just my opinion. And not all men are gay – what bull shit….
You just got involved with a really twisted mofo.
It is good to be angry. Alot of people that lose GOOD partners go through anger. I have a good friend that was married 50+ years and she still get’s pissed off at him for dying on her..But your anger is different. I am so sorry this has happened to you…but considering what a screwed up mind he had your much better off without him dead or alive – and that is my two cents…


Dear CAmom,

I totally understand your feelings about your experience with your exSP. What he did to you in killing himself the way he did, & blaming it on you, is evil. He made it very clear that it was an “ultimate FU” to YOU. I don’t know how I could deal with that, & it seems that you are doing a good job of it.

The reason I wrote what I did is that my experience was completely different…….manner of suicide, circumstances around it, all of it. This is why I don’t think that we can categorically say why sociopaths commit suicide.

You’d been in touch with your ex up until shortly before he shot himself. I’d had NC with Jamie since last July, when he made it clear that I was out of his life & that he was going on to live the life he felt he deserved in a positive way, & was glad to be away from me. Obviously he was bullshitting then about that, just as he bs’d about everything.

The only way I can feel about my place in this is that he knew he’d f’d up badly—with me, with all the people in his life…….he used all of us, including his new wife, for his own shrewdly calculated agendas…..& none of it worked.
I can’t imagine what his wife feels about his death….I don’t know exactly what was going on between them at the time. I have a feeling that she was pressuring him about money & other things, that she’d begun to realize that none of what he’d said about his life, me, his work, his plans & abilities were true. I don’t think that his suicide method indicated a FU to her either…..possibly he wanted her to feel sorry for him instead of being angry. And I suspect it worked. I don’t know. I heard from the d-i-l that he had left a scrawled, obviously drunken note, but I don’t know what it said. The d-i-l did tell me that “it was all about the money (his marrying her)……it was all just so shady….the way he left you, all of it, was just so wrong.”

It was all just so wrong. I feel badly for him because I know there was good in him, but, as one person in my church said, “there was the darkness that fought to obscure the light that was inside him…..a darkness that we sensed, but were never exposed to.” I can’t tell you how many people at my church told me this wk-end, “he just had too many demons.” And, as I said above, I know that God does love all of His children, even those who are possessed by demons, & that He forgives them.
Knowing that, I know that, as a child of God, I can now forgive him, too.

I pray that you do find peace & a way to forgive, CAmom….for YOU….because I know the hard, bitter knot that I had in my heart when I couldn’t find a way to forgive Jamie. And it hurt me. I prayed everyday, “God, forgive me in my unforgiveness”. People have said, “well, now he can’t hurt you anymore.” Well, unlike what your ex continued to do, Jamie wasn’t hurting me anymore… was me that was hurting me….my pain, anger, bitterness about his going on to have a great fun new life. But he didn’t. In his death, he released me from that. And the pain & grief & all the changes that his deception & desertion caused have led me to a whole new place in my life…..a whole new acceptance of myself & my life…in a way, it’s like rolling a double six & missing a chance to buy Boardwalk, but I’ve moved far ahead on my journey.

Peace & blessings to you, CAmom.

Ox Drover

Dear Yes,

I can hear the SANITY AND PEACE in your posts so loudly! I am so happy for you too….because following a suicide that is even remotely connected to “us” there is so much sadness and I am so glad that you have come through this with a move forward and a release from your unforgiveness. God has answered your prayers.

Sometimes All I can hear in my own posts is the INSANITY that comes back from time to time or the conflicting feelings and thoughts. It is a journey and I’m glad that you have moved past “go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200….” (((hugs)))


((((((CAmom))))))))) – chica, all my email bounces back for weeks now, and now your phone is disconnected. I am so glad to see you here as i almost had a heart attack when i called and got the disconnect notice.

Call when you can. besitos mujer.


Thank you, dear Oxy!

SANITY: Yes! What an incredible thing to feel after 10 mos of verging on total INsanity. After completely doubting everything about me & my life, feeling that I wasn’t worthy of even being alive, much less ever having anything good ever happen to me. And just consumed by bitterness & hurt & anger & unforgiveness.

Peace, well, yes, I do have a peace that’s descending on me. Even when things seem hard, I’m finally able to tell myself again that God Will Provide, & that just one step in front of another, walking in faith, is the one & only & best thing we can do.

SADNESS, tho, there’s a great deal of that. But it’s a sadness I can deal with peacefully & sanely…..something very different from the darkness & confusion of pain & hurt & bitterness.

I still have so many questions….questions that will likely never be answered…..&, of course, Jamie seldom leaves my mind…..he never has….but it’s not tormenting me anymore. I lit 2 Virgin of Guadalupe candles for him earlier….I believe that anyone who takes their own life will walk in sadness & darkness in the beyond, & I hope that he eventually will come to a place of Light.

Maybe it’s just me. Maybe it’s just the way I want to see it all, but it’s a way that gives me peace. I know that peace can’t live in a heart full of unforgiveness, & I know that we do have to pray for & work to an ability to forgive. Like most of us, I’ve had to struggle all my life with unconditional forgiveness of the wrongs done against me. This is one I can now let go & it lightens my own load. God did answer my prayers. And now I can pray for that ability to forgive for all of us who’ve been wounded.

((((Hugs & Hugs))))


Re Oxy’s “The frequent and repeated “suicide gestures” … are used as manipulation attempts”it is the DRAMA QUEEN/KING thing, ”that feeling sorry for them is the key thing”.and they hook you back into taking care of them.”

That is exactly how the Superspath got me to let him live at my house.

He was in trouble at work – BIG TROUBLE, probably about-to-lose-his-job kind of trouble. 2 women who worked with him had accused him of sexual harrassment. I now know that it wasn’t the first time he had been in trouble for that sort of thing.
Money had been going missing from the store he worked at. He had numerous issues with his subordinate staff members at the store (he was the Manager).

He told me that he was “trying to catch the thief”.
He told me that the women were “setting him up”.
He told me that the store was in crisis due to bad staff and that that was the reason he had been transfered there – to “sort them all out and get the store running properly again”.

I believed him. I now know from the wife prior to me, that money was also going missing from his previous store, he had been accused previously of sexual harrassment and there were “staff issues” at the previous store also.

He had been summonsed to a meeting with his bosses at head office.

Before that took place, he left me a suicide note and disappeared for a night.

I had the police tracking his mobile (cell) telephone while I made repeated calls to it to try to get a location on him. His family were all out driving around looking in places where they thought he might go. This went on from 4 in the afternoon until well after midnight. The few times I spoke with him (He wouldn’t alwys answer my calls) he kept saying that he was “no good to anyone”. All of us always thought that I had talked him home that night – his family thanked me for my support, and for his life.

When he got home, his car was full to the roofline with dry wood. It was everywhere except where he was sitting. He told me he had been going to burn himself to death. Talk about addicted to drama!

There was no suicide “attempt” at all. There was just playing with me on the phone for hours, playing with his frantic family for hours, playing with police resources for hours – and most importantly, securing my sympathy for the next part of his plan.

He knew that I was a union delegate with good connections to powerful industrial movers and shakers – and he knew that he was about to be sacked from his job. So he got me on his side and the next day I went in to bat for him, hiring a lawyer, getting him a union rep to stave off the “talk” his bosses wanted to have with him. He took “stress leave” and I spoke with his bosses and convinced them that if they threatened his job they would be sued for harrassing a man who was clearly depressed.

When I think about it now my blood boils.

After that I moved him into my place so that I could look after him while he “recovered” from his “ordeal”. And got stuck with him because he didn’t move out again once he went back to work.

It was only after we were divorced (9 years later) that I worked out that he could not have even been where he said he was that night because there was no mobile telephone coverage there at all (there still isn’t). He had to have been in the next town along, in order to take my calls. So the police were searching the deep dark forest and he was sitting somewhere down in civilisation laughing at all of us.


Also – the thing with the car full of wood and the pretense that he was going to “burn himself to death”.

The area where he claimed he was that night, is in a state forest where we have had both our worst (in 1961) and our second worst (in 2007) bushfires in our state’s history. An entire town was lost in the first big fire and was never rebuilt. There was a fire ban in that area at the time he claimed he was going to kill himself there – we all knew about it because it was a recreational area where we would sometimes visit. The weather was hot and we were approaching the Summer, when the fire danger was extreme. Superspath knew all of this.

If he HAD gone ahead and done it, the fire would have been uncontrollable and it would have taken hours before anyone realised it was burning deep in the forest. Many homes would have been under threat and many other lives might have been lost.

Who chooses to burn themselves alive anyhow?

Spookily enough, we eventually moved to that forest area. Superspath still lives there. In 2007, we had the second worst bushfire, which came within a kilometre of our house.

Superspath was fascinated by all of the drama surrounding that fire. He wasn’t worried like the rest of us were – he fed off it.

Ox Drover

Aussie girl, Your “drama king” story actually made me laugh! What a joker! LOL an id-i-jut to be exact! LOL ROTFLMAO

It wouldn’t have mattered to him if he had burned down the world. The thing is though, he was NOT going to hurt himself that’s for sure! LOL

kim frederick

Yeah,Aussie, I agree with Oxy. No one would choose to burn to death! But Your story did creep me out a bit. Is it possible that he was going to start a fire in the forest? Is it possible that HE started the fire you spoke of?

Starting a fire like that would certainly be DRAMATIC. Maybe he’s a pyrospath.


the threat of suicide was ever present in my time with the spath. ‘He’ was such a sick and dying boy, so emotionally and psychologically damaged by evil people in his short lifetime that….
okay, we all know this is a crock of shit!

There were suicide threats of omission and commission. one day i spent SEVERAL HOURS talking the fake boy our of a fake suicide. HOURS. she (the spath) is such a piece of crap.

really. i would still like to punch her in the face when I think about all that she solicited from me in time, heart and compassion – all solicited under false pretenses. I was genuine; she was a lying sack of crap evil *C*.

she was sooooo about the drama and trauma. fake suicide, fake boy, fake abuse ad naseum, fake surgeries, fake death.

fake resurrection – i mean really! i just want to punch her when i think of this. so, i do my best not to think of it.

i still feel powerless in some ways, i still feel raped. she is a danger to society. if i engage with her unholiness, she is a danger to me. lying evil piece of shit.


i have a better word Kim – how about ‘torch’? snort.

ouu, one joy is in ‘whack-a-spath’ mode again.


Yeah, like kim, I’m wondering if it’s possible that he started the 2007 fire. Sure sounds like the suspicious behavior of someone who starts fires…..the arsonist sociopath.

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