Like us, Claudia Moscovici had her run-in with a psychopath, one that almost destroyed her marriage. Since then, like many of us, she has thoroughly researched this destructive personality disorder. She started a blog called “Psychopathy Awareness,” and wrote two books: a novel called The Seducer, and an upcoming nonfiction book called Dangerous Liaisons.
In her review of my book, Love Fraud—How marriage to a sociopath fulfilled my spiritual plan, Claudia writes, “I didn’t think I could learn much more about the subject, but Donna’s book proved me wrong.”
Read the entire review on Psychopathy Awareness.
Love Fraud is available in the Lovefraud Store.
Katy
LOL! Thanks for saying that. But it doesn’t preclude me from feeling like one, ya know? Okay, I won’t use that term to refer to myself.
Angry, hurt, traumatized. Angry. Angry, angry, angry…
I’m so frustrated Katy. I don’t want to be this way. React as I have been. UGH! I wish there was an easier way to deal with things as they come up, but it just seems to be more painful, having to look at myself, warts and all. I think this is where good self care comes in. I haven’t cornered that one just yet either.
BUT I won’t give up working at it. No matter how painful it gets.
Thanks Katy.
LL
Dear LL,
I absolutely SECOND what Katy is saying about you talking to your kids about your drama/trauma, and I recall you talking about how you discussed all your issues with the very son that a few days later you were saying you were literally AFRAID of.
I realize it is difficult to live with people (and kids ARE people) and NOT lean on them for support, but it is important I think that you separate yourself and your issues from your role as a parent and leaning on our teenage kids for support is not a positive parental model in my opinion. I suggest you discuss this with your therapist. I also suggest that maybe you might want to get down on some really gut-crawling level with your therapist about YOUR issues rather than debating with him what the psychopath is or isn’t. This whole thing (your healing) has to become about YOU NOW, NOT about the psychopath. What the psychopath is or is not, whatever he did or did not do and what he is trying to do now is NO LONGER YOUR BUSINESS….your business is to HEAL YOU. He is not reachable and even if he were, you are NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HIM. You ARE however, responsible for healing yourself and having a HEALTHY interaction with your teenage kids and being a role model for them, and not an ANTI-role model for them. You need to model calm and adult behavior for them, not drama-rama. They’ve seen and heard enough of that in the last 10 years (or more) that they don’t need any more of that while they are trying to become adults themselves.
I realize I may think I am be being “hard on” you, LL, and maybe I am, but it is NOT out of a lack of empathy or sympathy or understanding of where you are coming from though, but I wouldn’t be much of a “friend” to you if I didn’t tell you the truth as I see it.
Sunday when my friend came down here to discuss and “ask my advice” on her potential business decision, I told her the truth and she literally had a panic attack because THAT WAS NOT WHAT SHE WANTED TO HEAR. She wanted validation of what she intended to do, and I think her intentions were VERY POOR RISKS AND BAD BUSINESS JUDGMENT THAT WAS GOING TO GET HER INTO A BIG FINANCIAL HOLE AT THE WORST POSSIBLE TIME. It was sort of like Kim saying she wanted a “relationship” because she was terrified of being “alone” and she knew the guy was a poor choice but she felt like the was the ONLY choice so even though she knew it was a poor choice it was “better than no relationship” she thought….only to find out that a BAD relationshit is WORSE than NO relationshit.
Sure, my friend is terrified about being able to support herself as a waitress as she gets older and the economy keeps on tanking and she is working at a high end place that the owner is 82 and going to die or retire and sell out soon and she has looked for a job and looked for a job and hasn’t been able to find one because of the area she lives in, and moving is not a great option because she owns her home and land outright and she loves her little farm-ette and her chickens and her horse etc. but a BAD business decision that is 99.9% bound to lose money she is having to BORROW to go into it is NOT a wise decision….no matter how terrified she is of losing the job she has….and borrowing money to spend the LAST DIME of it for opening a business withOUT ANY SAVINGS FOR EMERGENCIES or even business expenses IS BAD BUSINESS…..
I realize that my friend is terrified of her financial situation but jumping off into a bad decision because she sees it as the ONLY OPTION is not a good idea and even if she DID have a panic attack because I didn’t/couldn’t validate her idea I am glad I told her the truth as tenderly as I could. I hope that you will accept what I am (and what Katy is ) saying to you, because I know that on my part and I believe on Katy’s part that our observations are valid and I also believe that you need the TRUTH right now more than you need a load of “touchy feely BS.” of “everything’s gonna be okay sugar”—because if you don’t get your sheet together it WON’T be okay and you will just fall deeper and deeper into the hole of denial and pain. I don’t want that for you, LL. ((((hugs)))) and my prayers for your healing!
Ox,
I don’t want that for myself either. I’d rather have the truth than a lie.
I figure if I can sit through the truth and face it, deal with it, I’ll be better off.
But it sure hurts!! The truth isn’t always fun.
I’m long past wishing to debate my therapist about psychopaths, Ox.
I’m going in there tomorrow to deal with the specific issues that you and Katy have addressed.
LL
Dear LL,
Good luck and I hope you have a good session with your therapist. I can tell you for sure that LOOKING HONESTLY IN THE MIRROR AND SEEING OUR OWN FAULTS is NOT an easy process, it sure wasn’t for me at least.
I realized a lot of “warts” were on my own nose and pointing out how bad the warts were on the psychopaths’ nose didn’t make my warts any smaller.
Jesus summed it up pretty well when he told the Pharisees who were the ultimate hypocrites to take the LOG out of their own eyes before they tried to pick the SPECK out of someone else’s eye. I had to admit that I had BIG LOGS in my own eyes and that I was trying to pick the specks out of other people’s eyes, so I had to practice what I was preaching. Just like being a health care professional and smoking wasn’t either good practice or good sense, so I had to quit smoking. I also had to start eating right and lose the weight I had gained which I KNEW was a bad thing to do and the amount of salt I was eating as well.
Of course there is “no fanatic like a convert” so I’m a bit of a fanatic about the stopping smoking and also about the salt and the weight loss diet, as well as just in general getting healthy…but I also remember what it is like to lay on the floor emotionally sucking my thumb and crying myself to sleep every night. “No body loves me, everyone hates me, I’m gonna go eat worms, big fat wiggly ones, small thin wiggly ones, see them wiggle and squirm.”
But now it is time to practice what I preach, and to put the onus on my own head to treat myself at least as well as I treat others, and to treat others as I would have them treat me. If I’m going to be honest with myself as well as honest with others, and compassionate with myself as well as compassionate with others, I need to DO IT not just talk about it. That means I have to hold myself to a REASONABLE standard–not too high and not too low. I’m not perfect, and I can’t expect perfection out of me, or expect it out of others, but at the same time, I want to be HONEST and want others to be honest with me as well. So I’m learning NEW ways of coping every day, making new judgments and decisions. Some days I’ll make mistakes and so will you. But we learn from them, pick ourselves up and dust ourselves off and quit making the same mistake over and over. (hopefully) but it is a growing process, so hang in there! (((hugs)))
Ox,
I have a question: How do I be good/compassionate with myself when I’m CLEARLY seeing the logs in my own eyes? How not to beat myself up, thus perpetuating the self hatred cycle over and over again?
That’s another issue I think needs to be addressed in therapy.
I don’t know how to clean up the mess nor to stop the guilt that I constantly feel about my involvement, what got me there in the first place and how I continued to allow it, perpetuate as well as participate in it. I caused so much pain to so many, my children included. I don’t think this is going to be a day long process, but a lot longer.
I need to see the good as well as the bad too though to keep motivated towards growth and healing. I’ve stayed clear on my NC and understand that I can NEVER go back. Ever. I’m also continuing with my therapy no matter HOW painful it gets. I’m still determined.
The rest ain’t so great, but for me, they are BIG strides.
in that way, I do wish to be compassionate towards myself as I go through this process.
LL
LL,
Good start, and you are right, it is NOT a one day process. (that’s an understatement for sure!)
It is a one step at a time process. I wrote an article about self affirmations a while back (can’t remember the name of it) about loving myself one piece at a time. Instead of saying “I’m a nice person” (when I don’t really believe it) I say “I like my hair, it is good hair, got some gray, but still thick and ….” so on. I “like my skin, it is good skin, it protects me from diseases. It’s got some wrinkles, but it is on the whole, good skin….” etc.
Okay, you have logs in your eyes. ACCEPT that you have had logs in your eyes and so you need to remove those logs before you try to pick the specks out of other people’s eyes.
LOOK at what you are doing now, and give yourself credit for it. You did maintain NC. THAT’S A GOOD THING. You are going to therapy, that’s a good thing. You are getting out of bed in the morning. That’s a good thing, and so on.
Yes, you have more problems now than you have fingers and toes to count them on.
1) You have kid(s?) that are troubled that you have to deal with. 2) You have financial problems you have to deal with.
3) You have a mountain sliding down the hillside and may have to move problem.
4) You have a do I go to school or do I wait for that problem?
and so on…..1 to 103
But what you have to do is to take them one at a time and work through today’s worst problem and deal with tomorrow’s worst problem tomorrow. They can’t be solved all at once. I think if you do it like I did too, you will have to work on a part of a problem today and then go BACK to that problem again and work on it some more until you sort of finally get rid of it completely or almost completely.
I remember being SO TIRED of all the drama and all the new problems cropping up and having to deal with them I just wanted PEACE NOW!!!! I had mooching “friends” to deal with, then more mooching friends, and the same ones mooching more…but I finally learned to set some boundaries and the boundary was GET OUT OF MY LIFE AND STAY OUT. I also tried to “take care of” others who should have been taking care of themselves….and I used my energy and focus of taking care of them to DISTRACT myself from focusing on my OWN ISSUES which is what I should have been using my limited energy to focus on but looking at my own problems was much more painful than looking at and “solving” someone else’s problems. LOL DOES THAT RESONATE WITH YOU???? LOL
Yea, it is an uphill hike, and tough, and tiring, but you know, we can stop along the way and look back at just HOW FAR we have actually come….and then when we look up the hill at how far we still have to go (and believe me, there is ALWAYS another mountain to climb in the self-improvement hike!) and we don’t have to get so overwhelmed in seeing how high the mountains ahead of us are, because in the end, it is JUST LIFE….but we get stronger and stronger and we can keep on trucking! So keep yer chin up sweetie! Just keep putting one foot in front of the other, and ENJOY THE HIKE!!! (((hugs)))
Ox,
Ok. So here is the plan that will be executed today. I’m meeting with a potential new landlord this evening. Looking at a place. I’m hoping it works out. If not, eh, keep looking. But anyway, plan A.
Then I’ll come home and cook dinner for the fam and eat together (which we do regularly). Then my daughter and bf bought another puzzle, so will sit down with them a little bit this evening and work on that. End of day.
Tomorrow: THERAPY!!!!! I can’t WAIT to get there. Then work on my school appeal. Ok, that’s it.
I have a few other errands to run tomorrow, and some appointments to make (doc, dentist), prescrips to fill and pick up. But that’s just the basic stuff.
Ox, given the last ten years, maintaining NC has been my biggest accomplishment so far. If it were not for coming here last night, I would have responded to him. Secondly, today I have quite a different perspective about it all. Maintaining NC last night, was not the first obstacle to overcome, but I got a lot more than I bargained for with my triggered reactions here and the feedback. I’m learning more about me. Ironically, I’m so troubled by my reaction it puts HIM on the back burner. It made me realize I need to fix this part of me. He can’t be fixed, but I believe I can be. I believe I WILL be.
If I think about it too much, I become overwhelmed with what has been and what may be. I see how being in the present is important, but not like I see it now. This is something i”ll be talking about with my therapist tomorrow too. This has a lot to do with distractions and drama addiction. EVERY single day with him was nothing but drama. He’s not IN my life anymore. I’m not comfortable with his little stealthy sneaky assed self, but I’m choosing to blow it off as much as i can so I can focus on the NOW and my family.
I was also really proud of myself for being able to go to the store by myself (two actually!) and be absolutely ok with it. I think this subtle contact helped me to see that the possibility of change is NADA and that he will continue to play these little games wherever he is or goes. Ox, I’ve never NC’d him when he’s tried to contact me for this length of time with SUCH RESOLUTION within! This is GREAT progress! NC is so important for me because I realized it’s not something to be traumatized over if he tries to contact me, it’s something I DO FOR MYSELF that EMPOWERS ME. HE EXPECTS me to respond and I REFUSE to do it! THAT is HUUUUUUGE For me!
Little by little, there are strides. I think I”ll sit awhile tonight too and write down these accomplishments to keep me moving. And why they are important TO ME.
It’s been VERY difficult to implement the things I”ve learned. It seems so much easier to be distracted. I know that sounds odd, and it doesn’t FEEL GOOD, it FEELS FAMILIAR!!!! but NOW I GET IT.
IN therapy I really want to work with the reactions. I think, for me, this is paramount. It’s a HUGE issue and I need to deal with it. Where does this come from and WHY, other than just being able to identify a trigger. I don’t like what’s coming up when I think about it!! This is the nasty stuff I think people refer to when it gets REAL painful. For as much good as I have, I also have UGLY!!!! YUCK!!! Trying to balance that will be really tough. I’d like to learn not to beat myself up so much too. It perpetuates my guilt, shame and anger.
Ya know, Ox, when thinking about how I’ve been behaving and responding/reacting?……….I RARELY responded or reacted that way PRIOR to this spath. I was in an abusive marriage, but I RARELY spoke up out of FEAR. If I spoke, he would abuse. IN this relationship, he WANTED me to react. Will I EVER get to the place where I”m NOT reacting to this spathy slimy crud? I hope so. Is it okay to say I HATE what this man brought out in me? Maybe someday, I’ll be grateful for this experience, but right now, I’m just angry about it.
Yea, one step at a time…
LL
LL, GOOD JOB, you sounded SANE in that post! You sounded like you have a plan and are going to WORK THE PLAN! GREAT JOB!
One step, then another. Two forward, and one back. Two more forward and three back. Two more forward and none back…..just keep your toes pointed toward the light! Don’t listen to the siren song he keeps singing from the ditch! Listen to the good things from your heart.
Yea, we have all been “real schits” at times—and I admit that. You admit that too. So now we are going to QUIT THAT! We are going to treat others as we wish they would treat us, and we are going to TREAT OURSELVES well as well. So that means we are not going to beat ourselves up about things we cannot change—the past.
Yes, in the past I was a “real schit” but today I am going to be a kinder, gentler person to myself and others. I will fulfill my responsibilities to others and I will take care of myself. Before I take on a problem I will ask myself, IS THIS MY PROBLEM? If the answer is no, Then I will let the person to whom it belongs handle it. I will not take on the problems of others. I will work and I will rest and I will play in appropriate amounts. Life will be good today. NOW!
Ox,
I agree with that.
I want to run this by you and sort of air it to see what you think.
A close friend of mine was diagnosed with Non Hodgkins Lymphoma and the tumor is sitting in the middle of her chest. I will know more tomorrow. I had a feeling she wanted me to take her to the doctor (She has no car), but I didn’t offer. I feel badly not offering. I’m now HIGHLY aware of my INSTANT desire to distract and to HELP, so now my tendency is NOT to help at all for FEAR of being sucked into drama. Now, cancer IS drama all on its own. I care for my friend very much. But she too has a tendency towards drama. I want to support her, but I want to be VERY careful about drama ramaing all over the place, dragging and being dragged. Does that make sense?
So in wanting to be as supportive as I can, while also trying to heal and take care of my issues, without my issues becoming MORE of an issue (lol-oops), and enmeshed with her issues, how would you suggest would be the safest way of dealing with it? I have gone over and sat and had coffee with her and let her talk about things. That seems to help. But if I start goign to appointments with her, things take off in a very ugly direction. I just don’t think I can go there right now, but I don’t want to show her that I DON”T care about what’s happening to her.
I seem sensitized now to drama, now even more paranoid because of what I’m seeing of myself. I want EVERYTHING I do to be authentic.
Does this make sense?
LL
Dear LL,
After my husband burned to death, the boy who was in the aircraft and was the most badly burned was in the hospital about an hour’s drive from here, my step dad was dying with cancer and I was the primary care giver for him, the parents of the boy wanted me to come see him daily (they stayed with him 24/7) and I just could NOT do it. I know they needed support and so on but I just could NOT do it. Some dear elderly friends also had some brain lesions that the docs couldn’t diagnose and they wanted me to go to appointments with them a hour’s drive away to the doctor and I went a couple of times but I couldn’t keep on and keep on, my egg donor wanted me to help her out and so on….it got to where I wanted to hide in a hole and pull the hole in after me. All GOOD CAUSES and all nice people I loved, but I HAD TO TAKE CARE OF ME. Of course when I set boundaries the egg donor revolted, etc. but still I had to take care of me FIRST.
If I do not take care of ME I won’t have anything left to give to others.
You have ONLY two responsibilities right now. 1) yourself 2) your kids in that order. Because if you do not take care of you, you can’t take care of the kids.
You really do NOT WANT to take on this woman’s problems or you would not have asked me about it I don’t think. (that’s me reading your mind) LOL So you might think about a way that you can SHOW SUPPORT FOR HER in a way that is OKAY WITH YOURSELF and doesn’t distract you from taking care of yourself.
Sure, she has a BIG MEDICAL PROBLEM but it is HER BIG MEDICAL PROBLEM. YOU have some big problems of your own.
Send her a CARD, or make a cake for her, or give her a call and say “Suzie, I only have about 15 minutes before I have to go pick up the kids from school, so can’t talk long, but I wanted to give you a call and see how you were doing and let you know I was thinking about you.”
That sets a boundary for the amount of time you have alloted to listening to her problems, but also shows that you care. Then when the 15 minutes is up, say “Well, sorry I’ve got to go, but I’ll try to call you again Wednesday, what would be a good time?”
I hope that suggestion helps.