Like us, Claudia Moscovici had her run-in with a psychopath, one that almost destroyed her marriage. Since then, like many of us, she has thoroughly researched this destructive personality disorder. She started a blog called “Psychopathy Awareness,” and wrote two books: a novel called The Seducer, and an upcoming nonfiction book called Dangerous Liaisons.
In her review of my book, Love Fraud—How marriage to a sociopath fulfilled my spiritual plan, Claudia writes, “I didn’t think I could learn much more about the subject, but Donna’s book proved me wrong.”
Read the entire review on Psychopathy Awareness.
Love Fraud is available in the Lovefraud Store.
LL, maybe we’ll figure it out together. I’m going to think about this and write a post next week.
Claudia,
Maybe so. Interestingly, he tried to contact me again.
So this is where I have my feet on FIRMLY on terra firma right now.
It bothers me that he does this. I’m ignoring it, but it bothers me. There was a time I would feel “excited” when I knew he was trying to contact, now it just angers me, then I feel very depressed about it. It takes me a bit to just stay calm and focused on who HE IS, not the fantasy. That’s the hardest part.
There was a time I wished he would contact me. Now I feel angry because he does, but there is this sense of hopelessness too. A question of why when he’s with someone else. Well, the why is because he is what he is. It’s TO HURT me. Why does he want to HURT me? Because he is what he is…..
Having said that, I think I’ll busy myself cleaning my house for a bit to take my mind off of it, although I’m not so sure that’s healthy either. I feel like crying. It’s enormously frustrating when you want to get out of hell, but then hell follows you. I see it now like moving out of a house that’s haunted, that there’s a demon living inside the house with me, so I move out, hoping the entity is gone. But it’s followed me.
I’m trying very hard to wrap my mind around this.
I”ve been NC coming up on month three that I’ve seen him. What has been routine before is when I’ve gone NC and then I’ll go running back after a few weeks or even a few months. We are at the few months now, and I’m NOT running back. He knows I DON”T WANT to go back. I always, with the exception of a few times where there was up to TWO WEEKS NC, where he would contact first.
I’m not safe just yet. Not from myself and not from him, while he’s still “haunting”. It’s very, VERY unsettling.
An article about this would be amazing!
I understand about not getting work done being here lol! The articles here are great though. I’ve read some of them over andn over while maintaining my NC.
LL
LL, I know what you’re going through. I think that after I realized he was a psychopath the anger and sense of betrayal dominated everything. I never wanted to hear from him again in any way shape or form. Everything positive I felt towards him became very negative. And all the memories together, even what seemed good or pleasurable, turned my stomach once I realized they were all false.
I even asked my therapist if there was a form of hypnosis to wipe out just one person from your past, not that entire period. But he told me hypnosis, even when it works well, is not that fine-tuned. It might wipe out from your memory a whole period, along with the psychopath. And also, I was afraid that everything I had learned from this horrible experience would be wiped out too. And I definitely didn’t want that to be erased.
In your situation, I think that in so far as you are still reliving some of the pleasant memories of him, along with the sense of betrayal, you’re absorbing the reality that what seemed positive was in fact horribly abusive and negative. Then, if you react similarly to me, you’ll feel a lot of anger.
But the real forward stride is being able not to care one way or another, since such a low person doesn’t deserve our emotional energy, be it positive or negative. I wrote the post “Cultivating Indifference” with this attitude in mind, but honestly, I still can’t stand the thought of him. Probably indifference comes with time…
Claudia
I was thinking a lot about that last night, about how time heals all…or so that’s the cliche anyway….I think there is truth to that, but there is something about this experience that says there are deeper wounds from the past that need healing. I’m finding that this is not an easy nor fast process. Yesterday, my therapist told me that the happiest people are those that have the most self compassion. Couple that with time and I think that’s part of the key to good health again. I’m just a long way from that right now.
I think indifference will come. I think of the indifference I feel towards my spath fam. At least it feels indifferent to me. The problem is, is it indifference or is it buried pain that’s just hidden? I’ve not found that out yet. I just know that recognizing this is important so I don’t repeat this again. I’m somewhat impatient when it comes to wanting answers now. Yet something else I have to learn. Patience.
BUt also how to deal with the anger. It’s very real. As is the fear. Wouldn’t that have been a NORMAL, HEALTHY reaction to his antics in the FIRST place when the relationshit started?
I’m taking a position of caution. ANother thing my therapist and I talked about yesterday. Not just caution and mindfulness of my own boundaries but mindful of others cautions and boundaries too. It makes relationships now seem superficial andn trivial, but I think that’s the safest way. I”m also learning how to think things through before I open my mouth and stick my foot in it.
This morning I had a meeting at my son’s school. Got called in because he was having some issues. Sat with my son, the principal and my other son who was along for the ride. It was a good meeting and I felt I dealt with it rather well. I didn’t provide answers when I didn’t have any, I was just SO CLEAR and that felt really good.
Boundary issues are huge for me right now, so when he contacts, it feels especially violating given that he had absolutely NONE and I had NONE with him either.
You’re right, the real stride IS being able not to care one way or another. I try to VISUALIZE that in my mind. Seeing that as a goal even if it’s not integrated, just keep focusing on that.
The more time rolls on here, the more I’m seeing my own issues. It’s interesting that with that there is a shift going on inside that allows me to see how I got involved in the first place.
I don’t ever want to be that vulnerable again but yet I don’t want to be untrusting either, however, it’s best right now to err on the side of caution, I think…..
Does this sound familiar to you?
LL
LL, Anger would have been normal, had you known everything he was, his bad intentions, and his lies. But since they hid so much and lied so profusely to us, we didn’t even have the self-defense of anger at our disposal. What’s this about your “spath fam”?
LL,
Anger is an interesting thing.
It’s a reflexive reaction of self-protection to danger, but if, as Claudia said, we didn’t even know what they were doing, then where do we find the anger?
So I’ve asked myself, wasn’t there anything that made me angry? Yep, plenty. Then it turned into frustration because I felt I had no outlet. I felt I had no right to be angry. That’s the trauma bond. It’s what my parents put into me. These are the unhealthy behaviors of an oxen who doesn’t know his own strength. Anger should have warned me about danger, but it didn’t then. And actually it still doesn’t. My mind knows now to interpret anger as danger, but my body still dances around the issue. Feeling helpless, using trauma bonding reflexes.
Truthfully, I should have felt disgust rather than anger. Disgust was more appropriate at the entitled, grandiose behavior. Disgust is just as much a warning sign of an unhealthy and poisonous situation. Anger is only good for the immediate danger where fight or flight are required. Disgust is more intuitive, more appropriate when you’ve been slimed.
Skylar, I agree with you: psychopaths deserve disgust, or contempt, not anger. Anger takes so much energy out of us, that would be better spent differently. Unlike you, I never had any trauma bonding with him. I don’t even know what that kind of trauma feels like, although I can relate well to the trauma, afterwards, of realizing that you’ve been scammed by a fraud. I only had an extended honeymoon phase– filled with manipulation, anxiety about what I was doing to my family life, his hidden life with numerous other women, and his constant lies–which lasted over a year.
I think the phrase “being slimed” is perfect. Since you mention disgust, a few years ago, I read on lovefraud a very interesting article by Liane Leedom about contempt or disgust. Does anyone remember it?
I do feel disgust towards the psychopath, of course. This is my dominant attitude towards him. But I also erupt with anger and indignation whenever he contacts me in any way (or, in the case of yesterday, if I think it’s him).
Sky
Disgust was more appropriate at the entitled, grandiose behavior. Disgust is just as much a warning sign of an unhealthy and poisonous situation. Anger is only good for the immediate danger where fight or flight are required. Disgust is more intuitive, more appropriate when you’ve been slimed.
OMG!!! Isn’t THAT the truth???? Ya know when I think about the pleasant times (few and far between) that I shared with ExPOS, particularly with the sex, PART of me is disgusted and repulsed (this would be WHY I wouldn’t go back, COULD NOT go back), but another part of me is TURNED ON by the idea? HOW DISGUSTING IS THAT? YUCK!!! When I think about that, I wonder if that’s part of the trauma bond and if there isn’t some “attraction” to it, that’s not attraction, but is more FAMILIARITY? This is something I’m trying to peg down.
This ties into my revelation last night, that I feel okay sharing now because I’ve had a little time to process it. I want to learn how NOT to react (OUT OF FEAR AND ANGER) to something very significant that comes up…so I just cried it through and thought about it…..and what I’m discovering is that MORE is able to come up when that is processed….does that make sense?
Last night I realized that the ONE thing that is so critical from my background that ties into what happened with my ex is WANTING THEIR APPROVAL!!!! I would have done ANYTHING to get it. There was a BIG huge memory that came up for me that set this off in thinking about why I was so attracted to my ex in the first place. He was in a position of authority. He was KIND to me, at first. I IGNORED all the RED FLAGS, as well as MY OWN BOUNDARIES FOR THAT APPROVAL!!! This has been a pattern for me ALL OF MY LIFE. How disgusting is THAT? There is so much shame and guilt behind that because that was one of THE main motivating reasons behind my behavior WITH EVERYONE. THAT’S what being here has done, but also with my therapy yesterday. When this memory came up, I got a TON of memories coming up left and right and I was completely overwhelmed with it. But these memories were from WAY WAY back in my childhood. I loved these people in my fam SO MUCH, I would have done ANYTHING to get their attention and win their approval because I didn’t have it. Oh my…I was resourceful alright, but in all the wrong ways. Their rejection of me, added fuel to that fire of wanting/needing to be loved by them, having their approval of me. I never had it, from ANY of them. NONE of them loved me. And that’s the truth. THEY NEVER LOVED ME. And NEITHER ex’s did either. And people who did love me, I wasn’t interested in. This, I think is where the trauma bond was completed and set the course for all my miserable FAILURES in life, my greatest mistakes. It is also a GREAT source of incredible pain for me. I wanted ex POS approval so bad, I did the DUMBEST things to have it. And I STILL have the “inner” feeling about him. His rejection (abuse, neglect, cheating, lying blah blah) was his telling me that he DIDN”T approve of me. But his abuse was also the abuse I got from my spath fam.
Part of this is horribly painful, but part of this is also a relief to understand. IT’s also an anxiety producer for sure, because now I find myself under an INTENSE microscope as to my motives and intentions with EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING. Part of understanding this MONUMENTAL piece of the puzzle is that I had to live my childhood FAKING my emotions to PLEASE them or WIN their approval. I was NEVER authentic, although somewhere inside, even as a child, there WAS, but I had to hide that side of me or it would squashed like a bug. Same with ex.
I realized too, that I really did love this man. Very deeply. I believed his mesmerizing stories of how he was so abused, how he lost his first child to his first wife and how that pained him (NOT), I bought it…..but I bought it for my own reasons too, although I couldn’t label it at the time. I bought it because I wanted his approval. Even if that red flag were blazing in the wind (which it was) I would have REFUSED to see it….he had been too kind to me, I had felt too sorry for him, and the bells of my rejection in childhood were ringing loud and clear. I broke my own boundaries and justified doing it. UGH!!!!!
Now I’m micromanaging my emotions. My boundaries. I’m not only aware of HAVING boundaries for myself but I’m on hyper alert for others too. Now, I’m disgusted with myself, with my spath fam and with him too.
This also helps me tap into my anger. I got angry, and boy did I ever, but I also kept a lot of it buried. I’d get angry, but ex KNEW that the next day he could act as if nothing happened and I’d ACT like nothing happened. It wasn’t until the last year that things INSIDE ME began to change….to see bits and pieces for what it was. School saved my ass, literally. Doing something to build up self worth ( I could NOT have told you that’s what it was at the time, other than that I was sick of the situation, but still deeply addicted to it), was what slowly got me to seeing who and what he was. A small amount of independence did it.
Now all this other stuff to deal with. I’m thankful that i know all of this, but it’s bringing up a HUGE layer of stuff that needs to be dealt with. I SO appreciate your input Sky.
Claudia,
But that’s just it, I was ANGRY the entire relationshit because I KNEW he was lying to me about things, but I couldn’t PROVE it. So instead, I blew it off.
Yes, my father is definitely spath. So was my paternal grandmother (that woman was hell on wheels!), my mother, I don’t think was spath, but I do think she was def N, and if not full blown she had traits. My sister DEF spath, as is my brother. My mother died some time ago, so they are all that’s left, other than uncles and aunts and cousins to which we were not encouraged to spend much time with, but I didn’t care much for them either. My spath daddy fam is somewhat wealthy, so I saw LOTS of narcissism in attitudes and perceptions. YUCK! I never felt comfortable at family occasions, it had a very fake quality to it for me. I suspect that my maternal grandmother was full blown N and that my maternal grandfather, while alcoholic, was NOT spath or N at all. EVERYONE that knew him that was close to him said he was a wonderful man. Kind and good in his heart. But that could change if he was on one of his binges. My maternal Grandmother was extremely alcoholic, abusive to my grandfather and to my mother. She made it clear that my mother was an accident and she HATED her for disrupting her relationship with my grandfather because he ADORED my mother. This is where the question of whether or not my Mom was N or just traumatized….I definitely think she had traits, but I don’t know if those develop later on in life or not because when my grandfather died, my mother was six months pregnant with me and she was DEVASTATED. She told me that she never got over it. What was interesting is that I went to the grave site of both my grandparents several years ago while mother was still alive. I already knew that my grandparents were buried together, but while he had a stone SHE DID NOT. When I discovered this (I never knew my g-ma, she died when I was a year and a half old), I was very upset with my mother. She just basically felt that she hated the woman and that she didn’t deserve one, but that she’d look into it, but at FIRST she denied that there wasn’t one at all!!
I often wonder if my Grandmother’s hatred for my mother, was then transferred to me.
It’s a lot to think about and try to figure out. I wish I could find out more about mother’s history, particularly with my G-Ma. But they are all gone and my Mom was an only child. All the other fam members that would have known are dead now.
So yea, Claudia, I come from a load of S/P/N’s.
It should be noted too that I”m the ONLY member of that fam who cut off ties with ALL of them. I’m not sorry I did either. I believe that in doing so, it allowed me to get free of exPOS too because it wasn’t too long after that that I started wondering about him too….
LL
BTW, Claudia, I’m SUPER excited about your article. I can’t wait to see what you come up with!
LL