Like us, Claudia Moscovici had her run-in with a psychopath, one that almost destroyed her marriage. Since then, like many of us, she has thoroughly researched this destructive personality disorder. She started a blog called “Psychopathy Awareness,” and wrote two books: a novel called The Seducer, and an upcoming nonfiction book called Dangerous Liaisons.
In her review of my book, Love Fraud—How marriage to a sociopath fulfilled my spiritual plan, Claudia writes, “I didn’t think I could learn much more about the subject, but Donna’s book proved me wrong.”
Read the entire review on Psychopathy Awareness.
Love Fraud is available in the Lovefraud Store.
Dear KIm,
Darling, “the crazy old cat lady that I am” is okay! OKAY–ya hear me? O-K-A-Y!!!!! I’m a crazy old jack ass rider! So there! I beat ya! And, yea, I “wasted” a lot of my life too….didn’t make the most of it for sure. Spent a lot of time unhappy or just plain miserable, trying to please people that were “un-pleasable.” Trying to take care of everyone else and not taking care of me.
But, it wasn’t all bad…I had some great things in my life too. I loved my kids when they were little and enjoyed being with them and doing things with them—and reading the Richard Scary books to them and going to the beach with them, and other things we did.
Kimmie, you’ve overcome Ms Vodka as a “friend” and I’ve overcome Mr. Nicotine—doesn’t mean we don’t have some “fond memories” of the dysfunctional relationships we had with them but we know it is DYSFUNCTIONAL and we aren’t going to go back there because the relationshits were NOT GOOD FOR US. So we are going to stay NC from those two “UNfriends!”
I’m also working on setting boundaries for Ms Carbohydrates and Calories and SALT! Wish I could go NC with the three of them but we sort of have to have some contact like we are “co-parenting” sort of like Fight Another Day and her Jerk-face!
Another thing I think that both of us might become aware of is that “there ain’t no such thing as NORMAL.” We look at other people’s lives and we “see” what we THINK might be their “happy ever after” life but we only see the OUTSIDE of that life, not the real life. Remember what good fakers we were about hiding what was really going on with our lives? At least I sure was. I was a GREAT FAKER and anyone on the outside might have supposed I had a great relationship with the egg donor, and people who “know” her think she is such a wooooooonderful person. CARP!!!! She’s a bigger faker than I even was.
I’ve walked around on egg shells my entire life to one extent or another most of the time. The people who were my real friends could be counted on 2-3 fingers, the rest were just acquaintances not real FRIENDS. Or people I worked with or had a current mutual interest in or we had something that held us together for some period of time—a job, kids the same age or living close to each other or something.
The old “Norman Rockwell-ian” vision of “normal” just ain’t so, Kimmie. It is RARE, not normal. (If “normal” means “average.”)
I look at the families that I really do pretty well know what is going on inside those families—mine and a few others—and believe me while they might APPEAR on the surface as “normal” or “a good marriage” or whatever, I can VOUCH FOR THE FACT THEY ARE NOT! That the people who are putting on a great SHOW for others are in fact, living pretty miserable lives.
Looking at your above post Kim, you mention several things that you don’t like about what is going on NOW (there’s no way to go back and change the past so we won’t go there)
1) I am really isolated and you guys are my social life. I’m lonely and don’t remember how to make friends.
YOU can change that isolation. Go to some group of “mutual interest”—find a knitting group in your area, go to the library and volunteer on a day you are not keeping the kids, go to a thrift store for the dog and cat rescue and volunteer, go to a church or an AA meeting GET OUT and meet people. THAT is how you make friends.
2) I know I’m not normal because my life looks nothing like the normal peoples lives I see around me. BULL CARP!!!! You only see the outside of their lives you don’t know what their lives are like…..AND Miss Kimmie…you are comparing yourself to others and looking at what they have (you think) that you do not have.
So sit down and make a list of the good things you DO HAVE.
Start out with I have a roof over my head and enough food and clean water….and go from there. There are plenty of folks in this world who have NEITHER A ROOF, NOR FOOD OR CLEAN WATER. So compare yourself to those that have LESS THAN YOU in some pretty significant ways.
Yep, you’ve had some trauma/drama bonds, so have I and so have most of us here, and PEACE feels weird because we aren’t getting those adrenaline rushes but I’m beginning to like PEACE and CALM and funny thing about it, Kim, in the quiet of the peace and calm I am beginning to hear my own inner voices much more clearly now. (((hugs))))
((((( Kimmy )))))
Wow…..I”m so blown away by your post. It’s raw and it’s honest. I want to apologize to you in that you would EVER feel rebuffed by me. PLEASE know that I DON”T feel that way and that I would NEVER ignore you purposely. Your posts are INVALUABLE to me as are everyone else’s here.
Having said that I understand COMPLETELY what you’re saying as I have felt the same here and have been triggered by that VERY thing. You so HONESTLY spoke what I was feeling too. This is, in part, what my therapist and i talked about when “connecting” to those on the internet or in real life too. You NAILED it sweetie!!!
I’m so glad you brought this to light. My therapist and I talked about CLARIFYING things with others if I start to feel triggered, just like you JUST DID. Just ask! What a concept! But ya know what? With a trauma bond, you’re not ALLOWED to ask your abuser ANYTHING. And sometimes, it’s impossible to name it when involved.
I feel the same thing about Oxy’s posts about alcoholism AA. It can feel VERY painful when you’re working towards recovery. Having said that, I wouldn’t set foot into an AA meeting to save my butt!! For the VERY reasons she gave. My exP went to those meetings A LOT when he was in “recovery”. He was one of those “dry drunks” that Ox talks about. He went to pick up on WOMEN! I’ve been to meetings to, a few in the recent past. It was UNCOMFORTABLE and NOT because I was not willing to deal with my alcohol issue, but because of that “predatory” stare. I was “sized up” by a few of the men that were there and it was VERY triggering for me. I think AA is a WONDERFUL tool to use for recovery for MANY people and I KNOW people who SWEAR by AA and are NOT P/S/N. I believe one’s recovery is a very PERSONAL decision. AA is NOT RIGHT for everyone. But IT IS right for MANY. The key here is that it’s perfectly WONDERFUL to find what works FOR YOU. AA is NOT God Almighty, it is merely a TOOL, a STEP used for recovery but the choice to recover is really up to the person recovering, ya know? If it works for you, YOU GO GIRL!
Kimmy, I”d like to share this too, in honesty with you. The triggers I’ve had on this board? REACTIONS…for the SAME reasons! This is why it bothered me sooooo much and I took it to my therapist to talk about the other day. My MISperceptions of OTHERS perceptions OR my own PROJECTIONS in reactions to abuse, or rather out of the trauma bonds. While he felt it wasn’t wise to try to “connect” so much online or this board “it’s not face to face and you don’t really “KNOW” these people”, I disagreed. He was right in that isolation is NOT the way any longer and that I need to move on a step or two in getting out more I realized that being here has helped me HUGE in the revelations I’ve had the last few days that I think might have taken a lot longer to understand out there in the real world. I can say things here that I wouldn’t DARE say to someone in person. HONESTY is the key. I can do that with my therapist, but share any of this with anyone else outside of this board? Nope. This board provokes THOUGHT. IT’s also GOOD PRACTICE in learning about AWARENESS and sharing, learning how to communicate with others who have been through it and can also help provide the tools to look inside yourself and to learn a new way of thinking/believing/behaving. Someone here (I’ve forgotten whom so forgive me!) take what you want and leave the rest. SO TRUE. It’s so hard not to take things personally when you’re in pain. Not to have the same reactions. It feels like a knife in my chest when I read some of the comments. Some I believe are right on and give me the opportunity to process it. Others, well, I KNOW that’s not me. Kinda like AA, the board is a TOOL to use for recovery. But ultimately, it’s up to us to do the rest. This place affords me the opportunity to get VERY real about who I am and who I am NOT.
It’s also great because you get the opportunity to learn how to stand up for yourself and learn to do that in healthy ways. JUST LIKE YOU DID HERE WITH THAT POST!!!! I’m SO IMPRESSED Kim I can’t even tell you. That took GUTS and you GOT IT. It was honest and REAL.
Kim, this is a great opportunity to learn to take what you want and leave the rest. It’s a great opportunity speak up just like you did here and get feedback. Sometimes what’s whirling around in our heads, just gets bigger and bigger until it’s out of control. That’s exactly what was happening to me. I told my therapist that I thought I sat in my head TOO MUCH. THere is truth to that. Being with an abuser and the trauma bond, REQUIRES you to sit in your head too much because speaking up and standing up for yourself is a big NO NO. This is SUCH great progress for you, Kim and so enlightening for me. You said something I was afraid to say and couldn’t verbalize here.
This is something that I have to work on and after I met with my therapist here, I decided to try new strategies BEFORE I come to the board. MINDFULNESS…..boy now I know what being in the NOW really means. I pray before I come to the board. For discernment and for God to put His hand around my mouth and keep it SHUT and to ask myself questions. Okay, was that directed at me? Am I taking this TOO PERSONALLY, WHY am I taking this too personally. I’ve found it helpful to think about it. More helpful to pray about it. I think my therapist is right in that we don’t get the FULL Picture of anyone here when there is a connection, but we’ve never met them. I have a FEW FB friends that I have connected with, but I have never met, and then there are a few that I met through FB and HAVE met and it COMPLETES THE PICTURE FOR SURE! I also understand that this is cyberspace. What really is important and what really matters to me are those that are CLOSE to me, up close and personal. They know me better than anyone.
I don’t know about your diagnosis of BPD. I never would have guessed that you were diagnosed with that at all! I want to tread lightly here because that’s also a very personal issue, kim. I want to give you the dignity and respect you deserve in leaving it that way. What’s really so so so important is that you know yourself well enough, just as you displayed in your post here, to reach out, get feedback, take what you want and leave the rest. No one knows you better than you.
I think it’s too easy to “take it personally”, ya know? Asking for clarification is the RIGHT thing to do. It helps to heal those old wounds. It’s scary to do that. But you did it. I’m blown away, Kim. Blown completely away…..
Lastly, I’m so sorry you feel so sad, but I understand your reasons. I want you to know that I relate and that I care for you. I think you’ve made some huge strides Kim, but your post is by far one of the most honest and real I’ve seen in a long, long time. That is deep self reflection and you nailed it.
Thanks for your beautiful post, as well as all your other posts that have been more than enlightening for me.
LL
LL, you are so sweet and understanding, to Kim and to everyone else here. Since you mention AA, the psychopath I was with even went to Sexaholics Anonymous (or Sexoholics, however it’s spelled) to pick up women! That really shows the extent of their depravity and preying on the vulnerable.
Hi Kim, I’ve been reading back through some of your posts on this particular blog, and I can relate to feelings of loneliness and isolation. I’m feeling it particularly today. I’m not sure why. I have many real life friends, people I have lunch with and do things with, but I still do not always get the connection I crave. I notice many people are not really present – they are addicted to their cell phones or just various dramas in their lives, and we cannot just have fun in the moment. I’m slowly letting those people go to a more distant acquaintanceship. But this has left somewhat of a void. I have even considered moving into a shared living situation just to be around some other fun people. But I don’t know if I have the self-confidence yet.
I made a very big decision today, and I hope it was the right one. Anyone’s feedback is MOST welcome. I have been on the wait list for a psychoanalytic student from the Psychoanalytic Institute for 3 years now. I signed up thinking it was a way to get some really cheap longterm therapy. Psychoanalysis goes from 3-5 years and is a 4-5 day a week thing! So the analyst becomes a very important person in your life. They are your most significant relationship. I waited and waited and never got called, but never removed my name from the wait list.
I had sort of given up on it over the years when I never heard anything. But recently I got a call saying they had a full fledged analyst (not a student) available to see me for a cost I could probably afford. This came up rather suddenly after I’d already signed up for salsa lessons, Spanish classes, and a trip to Costa Rica, tying up all my time and money for a few months. I gave it some thought and decided I’d rather have my life than to give it up for therapy. I would be 54 or 55 when therapy ended. And where would I be then without having had much of a life besides therapy and work? So I turned it down.
I hope I made the right decision. I don’t know anyone who has ever been through analysis. It might have been a really good thing to have one person in my life I could say anything to and develop a relationship with. It could have helped me. But what a HUGE commitment! So many of my dreams (like moving to Costa Rica) would fly out of the window.
I just don’t have a sense of how healthy/unhealthy I am and how much I really need therapy. 3 years ago when I signed up I felt I needed it desperately. So I don’t know if I did the right thing. I guess I will never know.
Sorry, Kim, I was responding to your post and went off on a tangent like I usually do. But to respond to you specifically, I think it is a GREAT thing that you have recognized your need for approval. This is when THIS site can be a great mirror and a great therapist. I remember when I had the revelation about my own narcissism. It was very painful and difficult to admit, even to myself. As painful as it was, owning another part of myself helped me to be that much more whole. Keep doing what you are doing, girl, and I envy that you can use this site in this way and be so honest. We are all real people, and in spite of all of our shortcomings, there is a great deal of real support here. (((hugs))). I know I don’t need the approval of everyone here, but if I didn’t get some positive feedback and warm, fuzzy feelings, I would not keep coming back.
Claudia..
Aaaahhhh yours did the “Most Vulnerable Haunts” places too, huh? Lol. Wow.
I’ll tell ya, those AA meetings were a nightmare for me. That “predatory stare” now feels like someone wanting to suck my soul dry.
It’s very hard to be recovering from two addictions. In my case, ex used alcohol as the lure and I was hooked, to him AND to alcohol. The two go hand in hand, which makes AA meetings that much more triggering for me. I have a great sponsor and I’ve relied HEAVILY on her at times. She does get the addiction to my ex and she hates his guts so that helps a lot in untying BOTH knots at the same time.
P’s don’t use just the internet, right? Sheesh!
Thanks for your kind words, Claudia.
LL
Oxy…..please pass the skillet! 🙂
Kimmie,
Darlen……I think the emotional shiat from your D’s are drudging up unresolved feelings.
Own your own shiat…..no one elses.
Your keeping yourself nested in a comfort zone with your G babies….helping your d/sil……but WHAT is this doing for YOU?
Drag your ass out GFnd!!!!
Your hibernating out of fear of the world.
Create and build a life of your own…..D’s pregnancy gives you the perfect ‘out’. Summer is coming, find a job which prevents you from babysitting…..get out in the world.
Keeping yourself ‘wrapped’; up and safe is NOT going to protect you….it only prolongs the pain from a perceived safe place.
You have ‘regrets’……GO TAKE CARE OF THEM. If you don’t take control NOW…..You will have the same regrets in 10 years…..only it will be 10 years down the road…..of not trying.
(thank you Ox….BOINK, BOINK, BOINK, BOINK, BOINK)
Kimmie…..put ice on your head now…..and think on that.
I’ll meet you and Oxy at One’s for that group hug….be there/be square! 🙂
XXXXXXX
OOOOOOOO
EB
kim frederick,
My kids have had the flu this week, one still being home from school, so I’m off and on today. What I appreciate is that posters on here oftentimes articulate what I have felt, experienced, etc., being SO helpful to me, helping me feel less alone in my own struggles. I am someone who enjoys talking to people, conversing. Sometimes, the self-analyzing of ourselves and analyzing of others (which I do a lot of) can be in overdrive, where we need to take a break from it. Maybe all of us are a bit narcissistic (not being totally bad), enabling us to finally wake up and stand up for ourselves – maybe, that’s the lesson for some of us – learning how honor ourselves, protecting ourselves from harmful people. You are such a wonderful person, past, present, and future. I think about myself (maybe too much at times) and I think, what a waste – I was literally someone who cared about how my life turned out, and I ended up with a disaster, being burned. You are not alone.
P.S. If I seem to ignore some people here, it is totally not personal. I only have the energy to connect with a few people at a time, so I do it slowly, one person at a time. Usually it’s just a matter of who is online at that time or who is blogging on that thread.
Star?
Have fun in COSTA RICA!!!!
🙂
Stargazer, I say that your intuition told you the right thing: to choose living, and having some fun, over the therapy if you have to make a choice for financial reasons. Therapy is very useful but it’s also important to travel, meet new people and enjoy yourself.