By Joyce Alexander, RNP (Retired)
I recently bought a book, Violence Risk and Threat Assessment: A Practical Guide for Mental Health and Criminal Justice Professionals, by J. Reid Meloy, Ph.D. I actually bought it to give some “credence” to the statistics I put into my letter to the parole board protesting the release on parole of the Trojan Horse-Psychopath that attacked our family,
Of course this book is directed, as the title says, to professionals, and to assess risk of violence. But since we are dealing with psychopaths, it is, I think, a good idea for us to be able also to look at the assessment for possible violence in our own psychopaths when we thwart their desires, or kick them to the curb. We need to answer the questions, “Is my psychopath likely to respond with violence? If so, how?”
Most violent individuals are not violent all the time. In the introduction, the author illustrates that “just because an abnormality (in behavior) ”¦ only shows on occasion, does not mean it has gone away.” (My emphasis.)
A “false negative” is when you decide that your individual will not be violent, and you are wrong. You may pay for this decision with your life. A “false positive” is when you think your individual will be prone to violence, and they are not. Being prepared for violence, even if your individual psychopath does not turn out to be physically violent is, of course, the safest way to play it. If you are going to err, erring on the side of caution is the best course. False positives are less damaging to us than false negatives.
There are also different kinds of “violence.” Not all violence that does damage to us is physical. Psychopaths can become financially violent and deprive us of our income, our estate, and a hundred other violations that we can all imagine.
Contributors to violence
Dr. Meloy uses what he calls a bio-psycho-social model for Violence Risk Assessment to assess an individual’s risk for violence. This consists of the biological aspects, the psychological aspects and the social aspects of the individual in question.
The first, the psychological domain, contains such things as gender, age, past history of violence, frequency of violence, how recent have they been violent, and severity of past violence, paranoia, intelligence, anger, fear problems, and the frequency and intensity of them, as well as control of impulses. Of course, the psychopathy and other attachment problems will weigh in heavily on this.
The second, the social or environmental domain, looks at the family of origin violence, economic instability and poverty, WEAPONS HISTORY, weapon skill, interest and approach behavior, as well as alcohol and or psycho-stimulant use.
The third domain is the biological one. Is there a history of head trauma, or major mental disorder (like untreated bi-polar disorder).
Dr. Meloy also emphasizes that the MOST IMPORTANT factor in his judgment is the history of past violence. The best predictor of future violence is a history of past violence.
Questions to ask yourself in doing your own “risk assessment for violence” in your psychopath are: How “provoked” is your psychopath by losing you? Do they have the paranoid personality disorder, in which they feel “that everyone is out to get them,” with a long memory for imagined slights or wounds from those people “out to get them”? Are they chronically angry, fearful and jealous? Some forms of illegal drugs will also contribute to paranoia, and as the use of drugs and the interest and reliance on weapons goes up, so does the risk of violence. Dr. Maloy mentions the killing of Nichole Brown Simpson, where she was not only killed, but after death her body almost beheaded. He says that drugs, along with the rage, could have easily lowered the threshold for the abandonment rage which probably motivated the killer.
Fear and stalking
Dr. Meloy also goes into the lack of difference between biochemical reactions to both fear and anger. Both cause the same reaction within the body. How intense is the anger response in the person you are evaluating? How does the person handle anger?
Dr. Meloy differentiates between two different kinds of violence by illustrating his text with a story about a cat.
We have all seen a cat, cornered by a dog, with its hackles raised, its tail up, hissing and spitting. That cat is emotionally reacting in a violent way to the fear inside it that it is going to be attacked by the dog. (This is called “affective” or emotional violence in reaction to a perceived threat.) Once the perceived threat is gone, the cat will quickly return to a state of calm. The purpose of this kind of violence is “threat reduction.”
The second type of violence illustrated with another story of a cat is the predatory violence, which is planned and purposeful and goal directed.
The planned and purposeful (or predatory) violence has a minimal or absent autonomic arousal, (which is the hair standing on end, the hissing and spitting etc.). As you observe the cat in predatory violence—such as stalking a mouse or bird—the cat is calm, cool and collected. It is focused on a goal as it stalks the prey. It tries to keep its purpose (violence) hidden and it tries to keep the prey from realizing that it is prey.
The brain chemicals released in each of these states of violence are completely different. The emotionally generated fear induced violence is a defense mechanism. It can still be a threat to anyone who is the perceived enemy, but it quickly subsides once the threat is gone.
With predatory violence, the predator is goal directed to do violence to the prey. They may plot and plan and take quite some time to stalk and corner the prey. The predator may strike without warning. Unlike emotionally (fear) induced violence, predatory violence is not time limited and the stalking may go on for days, weeks, months or years.
Knowing which type of violence your psychopathic adversary is involved with at any given moment can help you assess what your course of action should be. If the Psychopath is showing the “cornered cat” response, for example for being confronted in a lie, your best response is to just “back off” and let them calm down when the perceived threat is removed. If the psychopath is stalking you; emotionally, financially, or physically, they will not be so obvious to spot as the enraged cat. Once you have determined that the person you are dealing with is a psychopath, or likely one, you must assume that the person will engage in predatory violence on some level. The fact that this stalking and predatory violence may be very subtle does not make it any less dangerous.
In the short term, cornering one in a threatening manner (confrontation of any kind) can produce an emotionally violent response or even physical attack, but in the long term, the predatory violence can do more damage to us, body and soul. We need, I think, to assess the state our psychopath is operating in, and learn when to back off with confrontations, and when to prepare ourselves for “out of the blue” attacks when they are in a predatory state.
Dear hoipe4joy,
Call your attorney as soon as he gets back in his office and say that you want jerk face OUT of the house NOW—-Get a judge’s order to get him out.
Stand up to jerk face and say “Loook,k you will not honor my boundaries,k you keep tryinjg to touch me and you cannot stay here two more months. I want the divorce FINAL by then. lFind you a place to live and get your chit and get out of here, don’t make me have to go to the judge and get him/her tothrow you out, it will not look good and you won’t make points with the judge and in the meantime please know that if you touch me even one more time trying to hug me I will call the cops and charge you with assault and battery—thiis no joke, jerk face. Our marriage is over.
One week—so get your stuff togehter or I will get it together and put it out on the front porch.
Then get a lock smith to come to the door and get the locks changed after you have put his stuff outside if he hasn’t moved it. (Clothes, personal items, a bed, a few towels, his shoes, and shaver, and anything that belonged to his familyl—or if yhou’d feel better get a small storage building and put it inside th building and give him the key)
YOu can do it, Hope! Do it for your daughter, let her have a P-FREE christmas without her father there! POut your suit of ADAMANT on and stretch that new back bone and “tell him how the cow ate the cabbage” ((((hug(((((
Happy thanksgiving guys! I was just now able to log on, for some reason LF wouldn’t load!
My low sodium (no added salt) dressing turned out GRAND and so did my mashed taters, and sweet’n’sour sweet potatoes (with OJ and pineapple and brown sugar) and turkey yummy! and I was even MODERATE in my portions! I’m so proud of myself! Even made a pine apple upside down cake for desert–low(er) calorie as well and very good! Hope you all had a great day!
Hope, you are going to have to force him to leave with a COURT ORDER at the very least. He will NOT do it “nicely” and you may even have to get the court order enforced by the local law, so be prepared to do so. Don’t let the back bone wilt! (((hugs))))
Hey Ox Drover!
Happy Thanksgiving! I tried all day to get LF to load and it wouldn’t!!!!! What is that kind of a problem??? I know there were some people counting on being here today. Of all days for technical difficulities… not good! Any way! Dinner with the neighbors was great!
HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO ALL!
soimnotthecrazee1!!!
Me too….not able to log on either.
I hope you all had a nice Thanksgiving.
I need to change my ‘expectations’! This were my lessons of today.
I’m starting to feel some of the same feelings I felt with spath…..during our breakup. This is weird to me, since he’s my son…..NOT my spouse.
I guess it’s the feeling of loss…….letdown, wanting to count on someone you can’t, wanting my son to be my son, NOT an argumentative, unreliable, toxic alien?
There is just something not right in him……. I can’t put my finger on it. I don’t know if he’s depressed, or a teen…..or what……
I think he pulls away from people to remain a victim…..he know’s victim…..
He’s so judgemental of EVERYONE around him…..picks them apart….BEHIND their backs.
Will never say anything confrontational to anyone (other than me…..to whom he’s NOTHING but confrontational).
Everything is an argument, everything is uphilll….
He wants trust, he argues that he SHOULD be relied on…..and then continues to let people down…..school, commitments, work, friends….me, and doens’t understand why people are discounting him.
JR will insist on doing something……INSIST…..then wait until the 11th hour……as I’ve spent all 11 hours wanting to have faith in him……hoping ‘this time’ will be different……and BOOM……non completion, non follow through…..and without any recognition of the bind he put other in. And me picking up the peices.
I need to learn how to not count on him. Take away that hope….. It’d be so much less stress on me that way!
Today’s example……..last week, HE VOLUNTEERED to make the pies for Thanksgiving. He went into my GF’s business to ask her how many pies she wanted….she said at least 2 but 3 would be good….she was having 22 people.
HE BROUGHT THIS UP…..not me asking, or her asking or anyone else asking him……HE Said….I”LL MAKE THE PIES.
Then….she saw him again……he confrimed…what pies he was making……she kept asking me……is Jr making the pies….I respond in the same fashion I did when spath was around…..Oh, yes, ofcourse…..(like why would you question that)
I asked him on Monday WHEN he’d be by to make the crust…..he stops and figures it out and says on Wed.
Okay…..(with my doubting silently) wed!
Last night at 9:30…..I was just pulling out the butter…..to make the crusts myself…..and he pulls in……
He sits down……and about an hour later, starts to make a move……it took him until 12am, to cuisinart 3 crusts (which consists of 4 sticks of butter cut into slices, flour, salt and cold water pulsed in a cuisinart)….wrap it in plastic and INSIST on putting it in freezer…..and he’d be back tomorrow…….he asked what time do we have to be there….I said 1pm at the latest.
Pies need to be baking by 10am. they take 50-70 minutes..(3 pies). they need to chill and set…….BEFORE WE GO!
I told him he shouldn’t freeze the crust…..he argued that was how it was done…….
The crust he made was MUCK (worked it in the cuisinart of 1.5 HOURS)…..looked like a ball of butter and flour MUCK……(okay mom….shut up…….be thankful!)
He left……I removed crusts from freezer and refridgerated overnight……
At 11:30 I called him…..woke him up…….no sign of him…..1:00…..no sign of him…..I had taken the muck crust out of the fridge at 8AM this morning……part of it melted inside was frozen…….from the time he spent with insisting it stay in the freezer….arguing about it……
I finally realize…..he AIN”T MAKING THE PIES and NOW the dough is NOT ROCK HARD……get on it mom!
It took me 1.5 hours to cut this ball of frozen muck up into workable peices…..try to form a crust……attempt to put it in a pie pan…….make the filling and bake it….for 70 odd minutes…..
Okay…..getem in the oven…….the smoke detectors are ALL going off…..go back into the kitchen……the ovens on fire……
half the crust falls off into the bottom of oven and the butter muck ignites…..(the crust is like dust it’s so short)
Put out the fire…..rinse/repeat 10 minutes later…..now it’s a sugar fire……the side of each pie which lost 1/2 the crust, now is leaking filling…….fire #2. Reach in, burn my hand….throw baking soda …fire out.
I’m in tears……I’ve got a total mess….pies smoking…..it’s NOW 2:40….(I’m an hour and 40 minutes late).
I sit down…..fight the tears and the pity party…….and decide…..let it OUT..>EB just cry!!!!
Why is he so unreliable? Why does he do this ALL the time…..why do I not step in front of him, stop having faith in him, he doesn’t deserve…..and reduce my stress……and DO IT MYSELF!!!!!!
This is EVERY DAMN DAY!!!! It’s like swimming against the current with him!!!!!!! Doesn’t matter WHAT it is……
He thinks he can reinvent the wheel……he’s always got a better timing and a better way…..AT EVERYTHING!!!!
It’s 3:30, phone rings…..it’s Jr…..Hey…..I just woke up, I’m getting in the shower…..I’ll be buy……..NO MENTION OF ANY PIES…..just a HEY.
Now….I’m silenced by this……waivering on eggshells….it’s Thanksgivning, I don’t want to fight……I’m already sad….so EB just shut up or you’ll be punished further…….I allow him to silence me…..and I WALK ON EGGSHELLS in order to have a peaceful, decent thanksgiving I can enjoy with friends and kids……
We are the only family we have……US…..that’s IT!
I did this with SPATH FOR 28 FUCKING YEARS!!!!! I just got rid of spath…..and Jr is picking up where spath left off……IS THIS NORMAL??????
WHY IS MY HEART BREAKING…..why is he choosing to make things so difficult? WHY DO I CARE SO MUCH? WHY DO I LET HIM AFFECT ME?????????
I allowed him to put me in this bind….when he showed up at 9:30 last night….I immediately threw the butter back in the fridge and didn’t allow him to see me starting to make the pies……SO HE WOULDN”T GET MAD AT ME???????????? WTF??????
I should have bulldozed through, said FUCK IT….make the damn pies, enjoy this experience……and the pies would have been done…KABOOM……so what he’d be pissed at me…..do the gaslighting dance…..say I always change the plan……and walk off……
LOOK AT HOW IT TURNED OUT FOR ME? Did my trusting iin him turn out any different? NOT! Another let down.
We drive up to my GF’s……and they are eating!!!!
How embarrasing…..I bring 2 dishes I made the night before…..(so I could enjoy today with Kids and NOT be rushed)…..they are cold, I planned on warming them right before dinner……I thought she said 5pm……20 ppl have just sat down and said grace…..and I show up with 2 dishes….COLD. Kids in tow.
(and pies)….warm!
So I nuke my dishes…..and go around frantically offering each person these dishes……..kids sit down, I’m sweating and stressed, trying again to HIDE it…..don’t want to be the buzzzkill……and JR goes and get’s a plate……and sit’s off at the corner of a table….ALONE!
WOn’t converse or engage with any of their kids…..just sit’s there like he’s invisable and VERY UNCOMFORTABLE.
The other kids get up to go into living room…..and JR sit’s at the table…..ALONE!!!!!!
It’s not as if he didn’t have any legs and coulnd’t move to another table……
NOW i’m feeling uncomfortable…..as everyone is saying….Jr, pull up a chair and join us……No, I’m okay……
He’s got a very awkward look to him…..NOW feeling weird…..cuz it’s MY kid everyones trying to include.
He asked me for my carkeys…..goes outside…..comes back in looking even worse……has this odd, depressed look on his face….blank……he wispers to me…..he’s not feeling well….just puked outside, asks where the bathroom is……and later, comes back and eats pie??????????????
I didn’t enjoy my meal…..(good thing about that is….I didn’t eat too much, hardly ate!!!!) Neve had dessert…..never felt comfortable…..because I was preoccupied with JR….the whole time?
WHY DO I ALLOW THIS….why can’t I have the mindset of……all ‘men’ for themselves….and i’m gonna take care of ME….and NOT worry about you, your feelings or your comfort?!!!!
I had high hopes of thanksgiving….I had plans….we weren’t going to be alone…..we were going to be with good people, who I care about and care about us…..
I was home in 2.5 hours. Start to finish…….
Boom….Thanksgiving, time to enjoy friends and family….over in 2,5 hours! No chatting, just stress and preoccupied……preoccupied with not letting any of the other guests know I was sad…or how my day went…..I didn’t want to bring anyone else down….so put on the happy face and fake it….I know my GF didn’t buy it…..but I think everyone else did….who knows.
4 years ago….and all the years prior….we had 20 people here at my house….stay for a week…..all family…..
Kids wanted tradition….JR especially……you ask, I provide….I LOVED IT!!!!!! JR loved it………it was alot of work….but it was cool…..kids were all together, we all cooked together, played cards at night……sledded in the days, or snowshoed, built snowmans…..went out for pizza…..laughed and had the Holiday that I wanted to provide for me and kids…..full of family and friends……
NOW……at 7:30pm……I’m alone……that’s it…..alone in tears, with my very own pity party…..of what I ‘used’ to have, and what I still work hard to provide for my kids…….and still can’t manage to pull it off!!!!
I feel like JR sabotages me……I asked him the other day if he hated me……he was perplexed by the question…..
i said…..your tone, on the phone…..is HORRID, you scream at me, your nasty sounding…..even if your just telling me you saw me drive by the grocers today…..its NASTY.
And I remember someone else in my life who left me with the same ‘taste’ in my mouth…..
Can I get over this resentment towards Jr? Will he ever be ‘normal’ to me/successful or at least able to function in the society we live in…….?
I look back at how sick I was…..and how he would say…..I’m so affraid of losing you mom……and this is how he treats me? Not a care in the world…..
NEVER even asked me IF the pies were taken care of…..He KNEW i’d do them eventually, when it was clear he wasn’t showing up…..
WHAT, could I show up to a dinner we were invited to, and pass along the ‘punishment’ to prove a point to him……that he LET EVERYONE AT THAT DINNER down? By not ‘covering’ for him and making the pies……could I DO THAT?
I couldn’t…..I felt piegeon holed……HE KNEW I WOULD COVER!!!!!! NEVER GAVE IT A SECOND THOUGHT.
When he arrived to go…….he said, are you okay? UH YEAH.
He KNEW….what is he a MORON????? Why does he put it back on me….and WHY DO I ALLOW HIM TO? Tonight, it was because I wanted a Thanksgiving….salvage a good night….out of a shitty day. Turn it around…..
In the end…..the end result was the same…..he was a bump on a log……I got the stress and work……and I didn’t enjoy myself!
WTF!
Sorry….I’m just not in a good place right now…..Thanks for being here….I probably shouldn’t post this……I just needed to RANT!!!!!!!!! And VENT!!!!!
🙁
Sorry….I guess I should be Thankful for having a place to go….and an opportunity to fight with my kid.
Somehow……it doesn’t feel good.
Maybe it IS me?
Dear ErinB,
Well, Join the club darling! I would suggest that you get Junior a basic cook book on how to make pie crusts and filling—step 1, 2, 3 etc. and tell him “Junior, now that you are an adult, you must take something to the party—3 pies! Here are the directions how to prepare them, the times it will take and I want them done the DAY BEFORE we go—you were not reliable this time, and In the future I expect you to be reliable if you plan to attend. NO PIES, NO ATTEND.
Did that-printed out….pictures and all….he’s always made the pie crusts since he was little……used to love it…declared this HIS job……….but my problem was with MY boundaries….I WANTED something I’m just NOT going to get….a nice holiday with my small, family……and freinds…..
so I was gonna do anything to be together…..and not tell him to fuck it….stay home…..
My problem!
Go ahead…..get the whip out!
EB, yes, in the beginning of your post… the fact that he WANTED to make the pies sounded really sweet! How many kids his age even know how a pie crust is made?
Sorry to hear you burned your hand. Hope that is feeling better.
Don’t think a whip is needed!! I would have done the same thing you did (all of it, make the pies, act happy, cry afterwards).
I, of course, would not want my friends and family to know the problems I was having and also would be feeling responsible for the dessert… even though it wasn’t technically me that said I would make the pies… if my kid said it… it’s like I said it… does that make sense? My daughter is older now and knows she’s on her own as far as something like that goes.
You are now beginning to create new boundaries with Jr. (didn’t he move out recently?) This is a whole new ballgame and the rules are changing, don’t be so hard on yourself, who wants their kid to stay home on a holiday?
I’m sure you are going to let him know that this behavior in the future is unacceptable. I guess they grow up and realize we are not going to bail them out of problems anymore… but in this case, I would have made the pies too (or in my case… go buy them somewhere, LOL)
I had enough…..and I BOOTED HIM about 2 weeks ago.
The heartburn way outweighed the handburn……if ya know what I mean.
Can I change this……NOPE!
Can I change me……YEP!
So the answer lies within.
He always ‘appears’ sweet…..and wanting to please…..(to others)……but it lands in my lap always!!!!!
Heres another aggravater…..I DID learn NEVER, EVER to volunteer HIM…for something….because I’d end up doing it….
NOW…it’s evolved into HIM volunteering himself…..’graciously’…..and dropping the ball…..and I PICK IT UP when I have MY face to save…….like showing up to dinner with 20+ peeps on TG with NO DESSERT!
It’s obviousley NOT about the friggen pies huh? Ya think……
I guess i’m just REAL tired of being let down by him and expected to do ‘clean up’. It makes my life hard to manage when he is always throwning in daily Curve balls. He makes POOR choices…..over and over and over and over…..
Goes back to what the therapist told me…..EB, you must let LIFE be his teacher!
And I’m scared of spathlyhood taking grasp…….I didn’t raise him to act like his father……BUT….I must remember…..HE does have his ‘genes’……so why am I shocked at this behavior?
Expect it…..and work around it……and prepare yourself for it to get worse….
Chic….did you spend time with Bro today? I hope you had a nice day and got out darlen!!!!
Sorry i’m so foul today. 🙂
Yeah, life is a tough teacher, maybe we try to spare them some of the hard knocks… but they get knocked down in spite of our efforts to shield them. Isn’t that what mom’s do? We teach teach teach… and they don’t listen. The part about him acting like nothing happened is the weird part. Volunteered himself, good one! So no, you don’t want to drop the ball when you are all supposed to show up with dessert for 20 people!!!! I know it’s not about the pies, but you wanted to have a nice holiday, I so get it. I would also be shocked at this behavior, what you have written about him before… he sounds like a pretty good kid, just hit the moody years? So you booted him 2 weeks ago… sounds like you already have some good boundaries in place, like the other day when you woldn’t let him borrow the snow blower!
When I started feeling like his father was standing in front of me, getting in my face, slamming doors and walls when i wouldn’t ‘comply’ with his ‘demands’ ……and he had 2 meltdowns in a week…..threw dishes etc…..YEP…..DONE!
At that point……I gave up.
I’ve seen this behavior lots’……and I ain’t gonna take it from my son. I don’t do this to him……
It’s a very weird feeling wishing and KNOWING life doesn’t have to be this hard……
but he don’t see it…….I had teh same feeling with spath…..
But…..if he makes certain choices…..life WILL always be this hard.
I just don’t understand WHY he does this…..and as a mother…..at what point DO we quit? At WHAT point do we walk away…….for good….
again….I stuck around in my marriage….giving him the benefit of doubt…..I always swore….I wouln’t ‘give up’ until I felt I gave it 1000%. Why would it be any different giving up on my OWN baby? What if im wrong, what if I cause him more emotional harm….what if all this is due to his fathers crap….what if I am not reading him right…….what if he’s crying out and I’m not getting the signal right……What if he’s pushing me away……out of fear of abandonment.,from spath and i’m failing him by letting go……
what if, what if, what if…….and I keep my life on hold….what if……
It’s a sucky burdon…..
I don’t know how to NOT care, not worry, not plan MY life around the kids……
Put ME first……WHO??????
I coulnd’t tell you what/how/where I’ll be in a year…..only because I’m afraid of making MY OWN Plans……
I’d like to be in a different place……but in a good place…..and I don’t see that…..with Jr…..I see running around in circles……I don’t have the stamina anymore…..I know what each quarter of the circle laps look like…..and I DON”T LIKE IT!
This is when I’m gonna do somehting drastic, sell everything and disappear off to Costa Rica with Star or something…..and NOT leave a forwarding address.