As many of us have painfully learned, before sociopaths dump one victim, they usually have already targeted another. In the following letter, a Lovefraud reader asked what she should do about the new victim:
I am finally away from the sociopath, although he still continues to contact me from time to time demanding money. He has a new target—as always, a financially secure woman, vulnerable and he has “given her a shoulder to cry on.” Her father just died, her mother has cancer and she stands to inherit some valuable land and she is already “hooked” thinking that he is “so caring” and “has been there for her and she for him.” He has told her I left him took all his money, etc.—the same story I got 10 years ago.
I’d like to be selfish in this, and just let him wander on to the new target, which means he will leave me entirely alone, but I feel so bad knowing he is going to ruin the life of a naive, vulnerable woman. My predecessor told me she “thanked God every day that I came along,” and part of me wants to do the same and let him “move on,” but I feel somewhere I should warn this woman. Had my predecessor told me everything she eventually told me, things would have been a lot different. I lost everything, including my social standing, my reputation, my integrity and self respect, not to mention my company and all my assets through his wild spending and lying about “business deals” and his abilities.
My question is this: Should I contact the other woman and tell her what I know? Or can I just “mind my own business” and let nature take its course. I wish someone had told me what I was facing.
Try to warn
This is a question I’ve heard many times. Should you warn the next victim?
In my opinion, if you can do it safely, I think you should try.
If you believe the predator fits the description of a sociopath, it may help to describe him or her that way. When people realize there is a personality disorder called sociopathy, and the disorder has distinct symptoms, it may make the warning more effective.
For example, if you said, “the guy (or woman) will cheat on you and take your money,” the next target, having already been told by the predator that you’re a disgruntled lover, may assume that you’re just bitter.
But if you said, “I believe the guy (or woman) is a sociopath, and to learn more about the disorder you should read Lovefraud.com,” maybe the person will go to the Internet, look up the behaviors and then recognize the symptoms.
Will the new victim listen?
The key question, of course, is will the new target heed your warning? We all know how good sociopaths are at flattery, soliciting pity and manipulation. The sociopath has already told the new target about all the terrible things you did to him or her. The sociopath may have the new target partially or totally brainwashed. Your words may or may not get through.
Still, you know what will happen to the new target. You know the pain and devastation the predator will inflict. You know what you’ve been through, and you don’t want to wish it on anyone.
In my view, you should try to prevent another casualty. But what do you think?
Should you try? Do you think the new victim will listen? Did someone try to warn you? Did you listen?
Please post your views on the Lovefraud Blog.
Jules:
I empathize with you. I still think about my S, too, unfortunately. We want the “dream” of the perfect guy, or at least the one we thought they were in the beginning … sweet, kind, thoughtful, attentive, generous, gentlemanly, hot, exciting, sexual, a bit of a “bad boy”.
I didn’t realize it at the time, but in the beginning of our relationship he made many random comments that I later realized had significant meaning regarding his own behaviour(s) and/or projection whereby he put his own behaviours on someone else including: “everything is smoke and mirrors”, “life’s a chess game”, “you hate me…just give it time, you will”, “everybody screws the s _ _ _ out of me”, “secrets are power”, “nobody cares”, “a man needs a place, a woman needs a reason”, ”it’s all about the money”, “the one with the most toys wins” , ” I should have been an actor”, “don’t ask for permission, ask for forgiveness”, “done is done”. I did not think anything of these sayings in the beginning, nor consider them clues, it is only in reflection that I realize the meaning of his words. He said horrible things about his ex-wife, that she is crazy (very descriptive and many stories about this), she was into witchcraft, etc. NONE of the things he said about her are true, she has become a dear friend of mine and she is a lovely woman.
Mine also had a great body, very muscular (worked out every day, into bodybuilding and fitness), very distinguished looking, used be an alcoholic (he didn’t admit this but his ex-wife told me he used to drink 10-12 beers a day). But now he wouldn’t touch a drink (never went to AA), wouldn’t even have a soda or a candy bar.He owned 2 businesses (lost one…fraud, stealing from it) and fraudulently takes money from the other as well as writes off everything to it… trips, fancy cars and motorcycles, furniture, etc. But get this! I was shocked to find out he used to be a drug dealer for several years. I could not believe that Mr. holier-than-thou used to do that! Total SHOCK. He had 3 custom motorcycles and sometimes rode without a helmet (illegal here) and didn’t even have a motorcycle endorsement (risk taking). He used to ride with motorcycle gangs in his late teens and early 20s and said he had connections to get rid of people of he wanted to. He also had a history of assault (he explained this away, of course it wasn’t his fault). Also I had 3 abnormal pap smears while with him, which now greatly concerns me (he told me he was faithful to his wife of 28 years but I’ve now found out he used to have liaisons with strippers and prostitutes).
I have come to believe they learn how to be “better” Sociopaths as they get older. They perfect their con man craft. They learn to hide it better through experience. And yes, quite probably he is saying the same things to her as he did to you. Mine was very patterned; he took his new woman, I’m sure, to the same restaurants and took her on the same trips; exactly the same routine. Same record playing over, different partner.
Mine also became increasingly controlling, and distant. He had almost no sense of humour, and rarely smiled. In the pictures I saw of him before we met, he wasn’t smiling in any of them (we met on a blind date through mutual friends…by the way, he is no longer friends with those people…I am). I would now consider the lack of smiling a huge clue that someone may be a Sociopath. He became more boring, also, as time went on. After the “crack in the mirror”, he became cruel. He NEVER talked to his ex-wife when she called, he hung up on her every single time. And then he started this with me.
Sociopaths are predators who look for prey, i.e., opportunity to enhance their life situations and make them look good. They want to win at all costs, and they want power (control) over events and people. A woman who will give them sex and money is very desirable. Mine is currently with a woman whose family has lots of money. We are disposable; once we’ve been replaced they have no use us anymore. They have a history of broken relationships…and trust me, they don’t say anything nice about us…nor do they think about us. They have moved on, and we need to, also.
I have read “The Other Boelyn Girl” but did not see the movie. When I read it I wasn’t aware he was a S, so didn’t see the connection, will have to watch the movie.
You’re right, Jules, we are on the same road. It is the road to peace and happiness. A road with no red flags, where Sociopaths are not allowed.
LilOrphan:
I can relate to the non-communicativeness. I think it’s control. Mine was very convincing, and extremely smart in a business-savvy, fraudulent, money-laundering, wheeling/dealing/scheming take people’s money way. He was not particularly verbal and didn’t have a large vocabulary. By the way, the last letter of his name is “s”.
peggywhoever@yahoo.com
Ox-D:
Reading that, I have but one question for you: how do you (if you do, and it seems like it from reading your posts) maintain trust and belief in anyone’s innate goodness ? Those people around you are evil, and yet, you keep on trying to stay above that.
Sometimes, my faith is sorely tested and I find myself entertaining thoughts of retribution or wicked deeds to equal those leveled at me. Sometimes I even do or say things that worry me about my own level of goodness – though I know from periods of less stress and from not following through on thoughts that I’m fundamentally still sound and solidly in the right camp. But I have trust concerns – my brother, MIL, ex-bf and a few others fit the profile of P’s – or at the very least, damaging N’s.
You’ve been severely tested. More than possibly I could imagine. Yet you seem of good faith. Each night I go to bed I ask to what end these experiences were meant as a lesson from God. You know, what does God want me to do with them in the larger context of my life? The only true response I’ve felt is “I want you to heal.” Really. Swear though I do not ever hear voices 🙂 I did hear that, or feel it. But I wonder: to heal myself? To heal others? To heel and just submit without question to God’s will?
It’s the WHY of experiences with a P that always gets to me…not the experience as much as what lesson it is supposed to teach us.
Have you found yourself with the same questions and if so, did you find any answers? How do you maintain trust in the Universe?
Wow, Oxdrover, I wish I could put all of your posts together so I could see the entire story. Please write a book so I can buy it! You have such interesting posts, and what an exciting life you’ve led; it sounds like a made-for-TV movie. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction!
Peace,
Peggy Pseu
Lil Orphan:
I believe we learn more from adversity than peace. I believe we learn more from difficult people than congenial people. I believe we learn about ourselves, about having control over our emotions, about making the right choices in difficult times. We also have to learn to forgive…it is normal in going through the stages of grief to have anger, or feel revengeful. Forgivness (I think OxDrover said this in another post) is not just for the other person, but for ourselves. If we maintain the hurt, anger, and revengeful feelings, they can make us sick inside. IMHO, the lessons we gain through this process understanding, and forgiveness. :>)
Peggy:
I emailed you just now, so if you see a strange address, it’s mine.
All of what you’ve said in that post is true. Trouble is, I’ve been “learning by adversity” for 40 years. Should have multiple advanced degrees in it! And I’ve forgiven, in my heart, everyone, including myself and even, yes, the P.
My theory on him is this: he inadvertently makes my life better, whenever he leaves it. For a time, it’s a struggle, always. But invariably I end up changing things for the better, from the meaningful to the profound to the superficial and all points in-between.
Already since he’s left my life I’ve started writing more, started a book on the experience of discovering you’re in love with a P, got more freelance writing gigs, got a hefty tax return and changed my entire living room, bought new furniture I adore, changed my hair, started multi-dating (which I hadn’t done in, oh, a decade!) and got a much better job.
His horrible treatment apparently inspires me to take better care of my own life and heart.
The first time, very similar things: in short succession I bought my house, got requested to consider working for a company that I frequented as a client, lost a bunch of weight…
it’s almost crazy, how much more I do in the aftermath of dealing with this person.
That was the last time, though. Ever. Am tired of “learning through adversity.” I just want peace and a loving, peaceful, drama-free, sane partner who isn’t sleeping with everyone in sight, who doesn’t get calls in the middle of the night, who doesn’t say crazy crap and withhold affection or kindness, who actually KNOWS how to love and how to express that love.
You know – normal. I just want normal, with one person for the rest of my days as a companion, friend and lover.
Lessons are no longer needed.
LilOrphan:
Hence the break-up with the S, I have lost 20 pounds (misery diet, I do not recommend it), have had extreme anxiety and difficulty focusing on my job and mild depression, not to mention an obsessiveness to 1) find the truth 2) figure out the puzzle and 3) expose him (I truly believe he will be in a federal prison within 2 years for income tax evasion, fraud, and money laundering).
On a positive note, I have redecorated my home and purchased new furniture…my house is much “softer” or more comfortable now, no hanging swords, and fake guns, and men in armour and no more strong, bold, masculine furniture (since he moved his stuff out). My house literally echoed when he moved his things out, and I have tried to fill the empty spaces in my home, and our hearts, with love. There are more pillows, flowers, and candles now. I reconnected with many friends (he didn’t forbid me to spend time with my friends, but didn’t encourage it), and I was highly persuaded to go to bed with him at 10 p.m. (although I’m a night owl) so I stay up later and investigate, or write, or try to heal myself. I have rethought the priorities in my life and am planning some major changes, i.e., focusing on writing and freeing myself from a conventional work environment. So there have certainly been some positives. I now have a new love interest, and have purchased a hot red sports car (my upcoming 50th birthday present to myself). I am no longer always saving for that “rainy day” because, hey, today it’s raining.
It has been a time of reflection, introspection, and re-prioritizing. It has been a time of profound change and enlightenment. It has been a time of learning forgiveness, of both myself and him.
Good has come in the aftermath of personal and emotional devastation. Growth has come. Both a quest, and a zest for life, and the meaning and purpose thereof, has come.
I, too, just want normal, and peace, love, and companionship. Oh…and integrity.
peggy – am at work and just got your email. will respond within the hour.
What does integrity mean to you? To me it is that words and actions match. This is crucial of anyone. If someone says they love me, they can’t do things that indicate otherwise and vice-versa.
You have a new love interest! woo-hoo. you are well on the path to healing. I did…sort of….have a new guy. But he dropped out of sight for a little while and when he reappeared I gave him the “no revolving doors in my life” speech. You step out, you stay out. One strike.
You’re right about that, as hard-line as it feels sometimes. One lie, one poof, one red flag and it’s “see ya” time.
Maybe if I’d not been on this merry-go-round with this man before…even though he made sure it looked like a different merry-go-round this time…but maybe if that was the case I’d be better able to accept this as just another learning experience.
I wonder why God didn’t just illuminate me back in the early 2000’s to the nature of P’s and the fact that he was one – also, how easily some of us fall into the P trap because of a broken FOO. Feels like my 30s were a waste, romantically, pining away for a man who…well…just wasn’t. Wasn’t there. Wasn’t genuine. Wasn’t even real.
Sort of depressing, actually. I’ve got the skills and heart to have a real, solid relationship with someone who’s truthful and substantive — but can’t find that kind of guy.
LilOrphan:
Integrity to me means: truthfulness, conducting oneself with sincerity, genuineness, honor, ethics, moralness, and values. (This may not be the clinical definition). Yes, and words and actions must match…and it is crucial of anyone, men, women, and children alike.
No red flags. One strike and you’re out. Three strikes are too many.
What is a FOO?
You’re right, no use pining for someone who “just wasn’t”… Wasn’t real. Wore a mask. Was a facade. Was an actor. OxDrover said Sociopaths don’t have a soul, and maybe she’s right. The alien invasion, whatever analogy one uses to refer to the experience with a Sociopath equates to the same thing…it “just wasn’t”. It never was, and never will be “real”. They are the great pretenders.
I am certain there are good men out there, just like there are good women. I still, in my heart, believe wholeheartedly that people are intrinsically good. Mr. S hasn’t taken that from me!
Yea, my “life story” is somewhat crazier than bad friction, in fact my new therapist made me bring in documentation and a witness to let him know that Wasn’t a “paranoid nut case” LOL I was NOT offended, because I know how CRAZY and unbelievable it all sounds.
How do I keep a positive attitude? (most of the time anyway) I read and learn, and examine myself to see what part I played in becoming and staying a victim. I read Dr. Frankl’s book “man’s search for meaning” and I figure if HE, a survivor of the Nazi camps who lost everything but his own body and nearly lost that, if HE can have a positive attitude and find MEANING in his suffering, who the heck am I to do less?
Not finding meaning in our lives leaves us in the very same condition I think as the Ps—what MEANING other than immediate gratification and selfishness and sex does the Ps life have? What meaning COULD it have?
How miserable would it be to never be able to love? To appreciate being loved?
I realize that I “set myself up” due to the enabling behavior I was brought up with to become a victim. I realize that my desire to be a “people pleaser” also set me up to be a victim. I participated in my own victimhood. I ALLOWED them to abuse me time and time and time again, and when one left I let another one take over the abuse.
Because I never let a man hit me, or talk ugly to me even, until I in my widow’s loneliness and need, allowed the P-BF to “woo” me, and it took several months for me to realize what he was doing as the abuse crept up slowly. When I did realize that he was a P, I kicked him to the curb, but just like all of you who have been romantically involved with Ps, I cried and cried and cried and wanted to call him back. I never did, but oh, how I WANTED to.
I didn’t listen to my instincts. I allowed myself to be influenced by other people’s ideas of what I should do how I should be and how I should always sacrifice my own desires to be “nice.” I let my mother’s definitions of forgiveness and guilt permeate my soul.
It took the DRASTIC attack of my P-son to shake me out of my FOG.
There is none so blind as he who WILL NOT see. And none so deaf as he who WILL NOT hear. That was me.
I knew I could not live any more as a victim, and I knew that I did not want to be involved with my mother’s TOXIC enabling or to submit to her attacks on me for not continuing to go along with her delusions about my P son and continue to enable him.
I realized that while she is not a N or a P she is just as TOXIC as they are because she enables them. Of course she doesn’t see it that way and never will, but I finally realized that I AM ONE SMART WOMAN, and she is NOT always right, and I am not going to be sent to hell by a loving God for not going along with her enabling behavior. I reevaluated my relationship with God, and while I don’t “hear voices” either, by reading the Bible with “new eyes” I am seeing so many things that are wisdom, that direct my thinking and my mind, and my soul that I never knew were there.
I am fortunate to have one son that has always stood by me, and now my son C is also freeing himself from the FOG of his X wife and her BF, and from his P-brother as well, and is entirely supportive of me and my NC with my mother as well (which surprised me really).
God has blessed me in so many many ways, with material things (I’m not rich but I have worked hard and am “independent” of others financial support or the need to work to pay the light bill at this point) so I was able to retire from the stress of work and look toward taking care of myself for probably the first time in my life, putting my own needs first.
There are supportive and close friends that are like siblings to me, both males and females, who are good and understanding people who CARE about me, who absolutely support me even when I was “stark raving crazy” with grief and fear.
Though my husband is dead, I can still lean on him in many ways, as I know what he would have said I should do. He was my biggest cheerleader in life and always had confidence in my ability to “survive” anything. My wonderful step father is another source of comfort, though he too is deceased, because he also was a big cheer leader and a very practical and smart man. Sometimes when I don’t know the answer to a question I can “ask” them, and then I will know what they would have advised me to do. (again, I am NOT hearing voices! LOL)
By the way FOO is family of origin.
I am no stronger than any of you, and my pain has not been any worse than any that the rest of you have suffered.
Dr. Frankl says (and I so believe he is right!) that pain is like a gas. If you put it in an empty vessel, whether you put in a little or a lot, it always FILLS THE ENTIRE SPACE AVAILABLE.
So if you are in pain, and I am in pain, our pain is always EQUAL, it fills us entirely.
I am seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, and each day I am learning more about myself, gathering strength to assess a situation and to handle it in as positive a way as I can.
I am making a concerted effort to ROOT OUT BITTERNESS and thoughts of revenge (all too easy to fall into that trap) because those feelings and thoughts are HARMFUL TO ME, not to the Ps for what they did.
I do seek JUSTICE, not revenge, so I will be at the parole hearing for the Trojan Horse P at the end of April, and I will make every effort to see that he and my X-DIL don’t pull off another scam against mother. That is JUSTICE, not revenge, though I am sure that they will not see it that way.
It has been a long hard road, mostly because I kept turning back on the journey, and like it says in the Bible, “a sow returning to her mud”—I kept letting myself get sucked back in to the chaos and fog, because I held o n to the malignant hope that I could “solve everyone else’s problems” when I should have been solving my OWN.
OWNING my own part in this was the most difficult I think, but I think that once I covered that hurdle, I started the upward journey toward PEACE and acceptance of myself—not perfect, but I don’t have to BE perfect to be good, to be worthy to be worthwhile.
This and other blogs have also been helpful to me, especially in the early days when I was “crazy” and couldn’t see the forest for the trees. But still I want to learn more, to grow more, and to be “all that I can be.”
Hello, all.
I just found this site. My therapist, who I’ve been seeing ever since my break-up, kept bringing up with terms “sociopath” and “anti-social personality disorder” when speaking of my ex. So I looked it up and found this site. I now believe that I was living with a sociopath, or at least one who exhibited those tendencies, for the past two years. He exhibits every single trait listed on this site, right down the line.
I found out that there was a woman before me when I was cleaning out the drawers to pack my things — I found her insurance card, found her on Myspace, and we began a diaglogue. Turned out that my ex took her for a huge settlement she got from a PI case. He blew through the money for six months, then he booted her out the door one day. I had a pretty comfortable divorce settlement. As soon as that was gone, magically, I too was given the boot in the very same fashion. A little more research, and the women came pouring out of the woodwork. This is a man who has done the same thing, repeatedly, ever since he was in his early 20’s.
If I knew who the next woman was, damned straight I’d attempt to warn her. I have nothing to loose, I’ve already lost it all in terms of my life savings. I think that he’s going to keep her a secret because of this fact. He never let anyone find out of my existence, aside from a few people, and we were supposed to be getting married and spending the rest of our lives together! This tells me that he doesn’t want anyone to be able to trace his steps.
I did call the IRS on his happy a$$. He has a scheme to avoid paying taxes that involves using other people’s SS numbers to route cash to him over the Internet. This has gone on for at least the four years I’ve known him. I don’t expect the IRS to act fast, but they will eventually act. I don’t doubt that one bit.