As many of us have painfully learned, before sociopaths dump one victim, they usually have already targeted another. In the following letter, a Lovefraud reader asked what she should do about the new victim:
I am finally away from the sociopath, although he still continues to contact me from time to time demanding money. He has a new target—as always, a financially secure woman, vulnerable and he has “given her a shoulder to cry on.” Her father just died, her mother has cancer and she stands to inherit some valuable land and she is already “hooked” thinking that he is “so caring” and “has been there for her and she for him.” He has told her I left him took all his money, etc.—the same story I got 10 years ago.
I’d like to be selfish in this, and just let him wander on to the new target, which means he will leave me entirely alone, but I feel so bad knowing he is going to ruin the life of a naive, vulnerable woman. My predecessor told me she “thanked God every day that I came along,” and part of me wants to do the same and let him “move on,” but I feel somewhere I should warn this woman. Had my predecessor told me everything she eventually told me, things would have been a lot different. I lost everything, including my social standing, my reputation, my integrity and self respect, not to mention my company and all my assets through his wild spending and lying about “business deals” and his abilities.
My question is this: Should I contact the other woman and tell her what I know? Or can I just “mind my own business” and let nature take its course. I wish someone had told me what I was facing.
Try to warn
This is a question I’ve heard many times. Should you warn the next victim?
In my opinion, if you can do it safely, I think you should try.
If you believe the predator fits the description of a sociopath, it may help to describe him or her that way. When people realize there is a personality disorder called sociopathy, and the disorder has distinct symptoms, it may make the warning more effective.
For example, if you said, “the guy (or woman) will cheat on you and take your money,” the next target, having already been told by the predator that you’re a disgruntled lover, may assume that you’re just bitter.
But if you said, “I believe the guy (or woman) is a sociopath, and to learn more about the disorder you should read Lovefraud.com,” maybe the person will go to the Internet, look up the behaviors and then recognize the symptoms.
Will the new victim listen?
The key question, of course, is will the new target heed your warning? We all know how good sociopaths are at flattery, soliciting pity and manipulation. The sociopath has already told the new target about all the terrible things you did to him or her. The sociopath may have the new target partially or totally brainwashed. Your words may or may not get through.
Still, you know what will happen to the new target. You know the pain and devastation the predator will inflict. You know what you’ve been through, and you don’t want to wish it on anyone.
In my view, you should try to prevent another casualty. But what do you think?
Should you try? Do you think the new victim will listen? Did someone try to warn you? Did you listen?
Please post your views on the Lovefraud Blog.
Orphan, Yes, I truly realize that I have major PTSD both from my husband’s death and from the chaos since then (P-XBF, P-son, P-DIL, enabling mother etc etc)
The “hating” part I have had to work through, and to me “forgiveness” does not mean that in any way I approve or condone what they have done, but that I have to get the BITTER emotions toward them out of my heart–not for their sake, but for MY sake. Hate and bitterness to me, eat at MY SOUL and I will not let them control ME.
Hate actually, I think is NOT the opposite of Love, but INDIFFERENCE is the opposite of love, just NOT CARING, NOT WANTING TO KNOW ABOUT THEM, etc. the old kind of deal where you really would not “Pi$$ on them if they were on fire” Just really not caring.
I don’t check on the condition of my son’s health, which prison he is, which status he is (max or min custody) is he sick, injured or ill? I am not even curious to know. My sons and I will be contacted by the prison if he dies or is killed, but we have already decided that we will let the state of TExas bury him where he belongs, in the prison cemetery. That may sound pretty “cold” on our parts, but I am finally at a stage in my healing with my “X-son,” as my son C calls him my “ex-brother,” where it IS like the child died 20+ yrs ago.
As far as my X-BF-P, I saw him several mnths later after the break up, and I really didn’t get upset about it at all. Maybe I am just compartmentalizing, I’m not sure, but the guy I saw walking around there (who was uncomfortable in MY presence) wasn’t anyone I cared about any more.
My enabling mother is now NC, and though I have had to “break” physical NC a couple of times over the past 6-8 months I have been NC with for for BUSINESS reasons, I keep it to BUSINESS and ONLY business, and as far as her enabling, (shrug shoulders here) I really do not care whether I please her or not! Her opinion is no longer my basis for my behavior, thoughts, opinions, etc. I no longer feel a NEED to please her. I am courteous, business-like, and treat her the way I would a total stranger that I am conducting business with. Not “cold” but not excessively warm either, just “business” and polite.
If she starts to talk about personal things, or her health, or her opinions, etc. I immediately stop the conversation and leave or hang up. Going NC with her and recognizing HOW TOXIC she is with her enabling, was the last weight off my back so that I could go forward toward healing without a heavy load dragging me down to my knees.
There was a time when I felt like I was literally on my belly with the weight of the stress and pain on my shoulders, and I cried, literally on my knees for her to “lighten up” on me, and she mirrored the rage of my P-son that she was “protecting” and looked at me with the same LOOK–you know the one I mean T-H-E L-O-O-K that only they can have— and it was then I realized that she was a total mirror of his wrath, rage and anger. She isn’t a P, but she sure as heck acted like one when she was totally in his thrall. I honestly think that if she had thought she could have gotten away with it that SHE would have killed me. I also realized that if she got her FANTASY DREAM fulfilled (him to get out of prison before she dies) that she would have not been all that upset if I had died in the process.
I read the original post of M. L. and my heart wept for her. I think my mother was willing to sacrifice me in order to “love and protect” my P-son, I think she does in her own way “love” me, but her enabling is so ingrained that she will never give it up except by force (currently my son C has told her that if she ever communicates with or sends money to my P-son again, he will NC her as well.) I also think that she thinks that at some point I will relent in the NC and accept her “non-apology” (as I have in the past) and play her games of “let’s pretend it never happened”—but I have NO intention of doing that. A relationship with her at all would go right back to what it has always been, and WITHOUT TRUST what kind of a “relationship” can you have with ANYONE?
My mother supposedly “hates liars” but she LIED TO ME to my face, and at the same time, before she had time to swallow the lie in her own mouth, called me a liar. Her lie, was of course, about sending more money to P-son. She gaslighted me over and over until she almost had ME convinced I was having “amnesia” (“short term memory problems you know”) and if I had not had objective WITNESSES to her lies she would have succeeded in that. LOL
The story in the Bible in II Samuel of King David and his P-son Absalom, who revolted against David and tried to take the kingdom. David was totally an enabler of this favorite son, and after the battle, David went into screaming mourning for the son who had tried to kill him. One of David’s generals called David to task on this and said, “I perceive that if we (the whole army) had died, and your son had lived that YOU WOULD BE WELL PLEASED.”
King David saw the validity of his general’s comment and repented and changed his behavior toward his people. I know for a fact, that my mother had the same feeling, if I had died, but son P had gotten out of prison before she dies, SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN WELL PLEASED. She, however, has NOT repented or changed her ways, but continued to deny her own enabling, make excuses for her lies and not admit her own culpability in any of this. The thread on “what is an apology” (or what is NOT an apology) is a very good one, and RIGHT ON.
Even if you commit a crime and plead guilty, the judge makes you stand up and ADMIT what you did, or you are not allowed to plead guilty. If you refuse to admit what you did (you are not required to be “sorry”) they will not let you plead guilty, you must go to trial.
My mother has never admitted any kind of guilt at all. Everything she has ever done to enable my son is “excused” by her MOTIVE (SHE SAYS) of “Christian Charity” toward the oppressed…(excuse me while I puke! where is the puke emoticon when you need one LOL) I am the first person in the world to accept a sincere apology, or to make one, but insincere “apologies” without any change in attitude or behavior are NOT valid. I still feel it is necessary to get the bitterness out of my heart (for me) but that doesn’t mean that I will EVER TRUST that person again. If you can’t trust, why would you want to even see or interact with this person more than absolutely NECESSARY? Maybe you work with them, and you are “polite” at work, but you sure don’t invite them for Christmas dinner. LOL
Because some of our family’s finances are mingled in a trust, I will from time to time have to have conversations with her, but BUSINESS ONLY.
OxDrover:
I think you are right on with your statement, “If you can’t trust, why would you want to even see or interact with this person…”. Anyone we cannot TRUST should be NC. No exceptions.
Well, Peggy, I totally agree with that NC, however, there are Ps we have to interact with at work for some people, and in the neighborhood, at clubs, etc. In one of my groups that I am active in the President is a P–sometimes I want to SCREAM! But if I want to be in the group,I short of have to interact with him somewhat.
But I dont’ have a “relationship” with him, and he knows that I WILL stand up on my hind legs like a human and face off with him if he gets “testy.” I ran for and was elected to the board of directors for a two year term and made his life a miserable hell as far as him taking advantage of the non-profit status of the group for his own private benefit. However, after two years of the effort it took, I decided I was ready to step down and let someone else have a turn at being the thorn in his side. It was just more energy and aggravation than I wanted to expend on something like that.
I am looking at a lot of things in my life and re-deciding if I want to spend that much time and energy on that “thing” whether it is a group association or a relationship.
Now, I am spending more quality time with fewer people and enjoying it more. Putting up with about ZIP invasion of my space, and unnecessary emotional crap. I’m not trying to be a “people pleaser” at all costs, and not letting little things build up and up and up until there is a keg of dynamite that explodes the next time someone looks at me crossways, but addressing things when they occur on the spot. Sometimes I don’t “think fast enough” to do that, but most of the time it is coming through with me, and I am hoping that it becomes a HABIT rather than something I have to work at so much.
I am cultivating GOOD and close friends more, and avoiding those relationships and people that are troublesome.
There is an old Cherokee story so they say that inside each person there are two wolves, a good wolf and a bad wolf and they are constantly fighting. When someone asks which one wins, the answer is “the one you feed the most.” I am trying to feed my good wolf more than the “bad” wolf.
I do notice that I still have VERY LITTLE “reserve” strength, and it doesn’t take too much to spiral me downward, so I am making a very CONCERTED EFFORT to avoid situations where I am likely to have a confrontation with anyone–but if one does come along, I am trying to handle it in an appropriate way. I guess you could say I am choosing my battles more carefully too.
For what it’s worth…
I spent nearly a year trying to figure my ex s out and finally accepted that I will NEVER be able to relate to his motivations because he is an s and I am not. I spent even longer trying to warn and share proof of who this monster is with his new victim and failed miserably. I awoke one morning and decided that he really just didn’t matter anymore and neither did she. I’ve done all I can do to try to warn and protect her. What does still matter and always will is ME! I was fortunate enough NOT to have any children with this man so I have absolutely NO reason to be concerned with him. I found that once I started to focus on ME and just what it is that I want for my future, he and the past connected to him grew more and more insignificant. I am proceeding into my future with caution because I am now very aware of the dangers that lurk. I reached a much greater understanding of myself and the reasons behind my getting entangled with a s. I can’t fix him nor can I fix his new victim, but I have managed to adjust a whole lot of things about myself. Myself is where I’ve been keeping most of my focus lately and I’m finding that I’m starting to feel good about myself again. I gave him 8 years of my life, I won’t give him another second!
About the memory thing, since the sociopath in my life preyed on me when I was a child, I have a very hard time remembering my childhood at all. A few things stick out, but I don’t remember much except the gaslighting and mental torture. I still have a hard time with that, I often completely block things out of my mind and it takes someone else’s detailed description of them for me to remember them. It’s kind of sad because I feel like I’m senile and I’m only in my twenties. I don’t know if it will ever go away. I have had only limited contact with my S stepmother for the past seven years but I have to have some kind of contact with her if I want a relationship with my dad.
By the way, I forgot which thread I posted on the first time (my memory again!) but I just wanted to say thank you to everyone, especially OxDrover, for the supportive posts and the kind words. I was really touched and posting on this blog has really made a difference in my life. Thank you 🙂
free; yes the whole mind control thing sounds very weird and i think alram bells would be ringing even if i ddint know what a spath was, why would he want to control anyones mind or body for that matter, strange. yes keeping a diary or journal is grea t and i have found it awakening to see what we and they do. the patterns are obvious when reading over it. i also read somwhere that keeping a journal of things that happen and dreams also is very good for building intuition and improving it. apparently dreams can reveal a lot about sub concious thoughts so writing them down as we have them can reveal heeps of stuff. mine too was creepy about the way he looked at me sometimes i could feel his eyes on me sometimes and also noticed him looking at other woman while i was in his presence then he would of course deny it . all mean perv i think but the way he looked it was like he had no controll over it at all. thanks.
My childhood is swiss cheese memory, too, Ariadne. Worst of all, out of nowhere, very infrequently another memory will resurface, just a snippet of something, a feeling and then boom, an image, usually frightening. Sometimes think most of my earliest memory was used to repress and replace the bad memories with nothingness.
It’s the same with memories of the S – I have to work very hard as time passes to remember the bad. It’s habit to gloss over it and dissociate from bad memories…very old habit. And friends have to remind me of things from childhood they remember vividly that I recall not at all.
Has anyone tried regression/hypnotherapy? Been considering it for a long time and want to try it, but I’m afraid it might jet me right over some proverbial cliff, never to return. And yet I really want to reclaim some of childhood.
Ariadne,
Thank you for that comment. I do hope that in some way I can help someone else through what I went through…the blogs and the people on them sure helped me when I was CRAZY and in PAIN LIKE I HAD NEVER FELT BEFORE—if in any way I can “repay” them for their help by supporting someone else in my former position I am more than glad to.
I think that the reason self help groups like AA are successful is that the people they are helping know that THEY KNOW personally the problems they are facing.
I know we all have our little “things” about us that helped make us stay victims, and those are the things we can change, we cannot change the Ps, only our reactions to them.
BEtween the chemical and neurochemical and emotional reactions that we have to the “fantasy”they hold out to us, as well as the good sense and logic we have (sometimes which we ignore) but eventually get back to—we do help each other heal.
I strongly feel that God has given me a second chance at life, albeit late in life, but that is much better than living the rest of mylife in psychological HELL ON EARTH–my faith, my renewed and stronger faith, and my views of myself have changed drasticly—much more in line with what I know to be a better and stronger person, and sure enough a much HAPPIER person. Life is good again, not perfect, and I am still (and I hope always will be) in the learning curve, but it is now more like three steps forward and one back ward, rather than one forward and one backward. LOL Or worse yet, one forward and three backward. LOL
Hi All-
Thank you very much for your posts and insightful comments on this site. In particular, I would like to thank Donna very much. I visit here every day to read and learn. This site has been very helpful for my healing. I have written here a couple of times before, but went silent due to emotional distress. It has been only a month since I found out that my ex-fiance was a psychopath after 10 years of long distance relationship. I tried to make my story short, but this is going to be a long post.
I came to North America 11 years ago for my career. I met my ex-P in Ontario, Canada where I lived for three years. Then I relocated to US. Due to my visa restriction, it was not easy for me to travel to Canada from US for a long time (especially after 9/11). He visited me whenever I lived in US. Now, I have a green card and can travel freely.
When I first met him, he was a tenured professor in Ontario. I was a research fellow in a different filed from his. We agreed that once I found a position in a big city in US, he would relocate with me. Now, I hold a faculty position in US, but he did not relocate with me. Despite the distance between us, we decided to marry, well, at least, I thought.
During our 10 years, many strange things happened around Christmas holiday. I have never spent the entire holiday season with him, because every year something would happen to prevent us from being together. Last Christmas, he was supposed to come to my place but did not show. On the 22nd, he phoned me that he missed his flight. Then for a few days, there were no phone calls or e-mails from him. I left messages on his cell to call me back. But I was now convinced that he has a reason why he cannot spend the holiday with me every year. I sent him an e-mail to ask him to tell me the reason whatever it is. On Christmas Day, I got an e-mail from him, which just says one sentence “sorry, you deserve much better.”
I wanted to know what exactly this means, but I could not reach him by any means. So I went to Ontario to see him on the 26th. Last time I visited him in Ontario in October, he said he was temporally living in a motel and we stayed there. But I could not remember the motel and my girlfriend in Ontario offered me to stay in her place. He said that he does not own home because his parents left him a substantial amount of debt due to family business he was also involved, so he was unable to buy property. Well, this was a lie. But he tells so convincingly!
I e-mailed him that I was staying with my girlfriend and left her phone number. He never called me. On the 27th he e-mailed me he actually came to my city in US afterwards but never said where he stayed. He said he left flowers and a letter at the entrance of my condo, but my condo manger never saw them. This was another lie. That was the Dec 29th. Two weeks later, in mid Jan, he e-mailed me that he was very angry at me because I doubted him and he had miserable holiday. He never apologized for his irresponsible behavior during the holidays. During this time, I got sick and could not sleep at all.
Up to that Christmas point, I thought we had been doing great, getting over many problems. When he was on sabbatical in 2006-7, he came to my place very often. We even applied for marriage license in my state and met lawyers to discuss our prenuptial agreement.
I hired a private investigator in his city. In February, I found out that the person who I loved dearly did not exist from the beginning. He lied about his age, property, current address, well many things. Eight years ago, in 1999, he bought a house in Ontario without telling me and he has been living with a woman. Because marriage/divorce records are not public in Ontario, my private investigator could not find out if they are married or not.
Last spring, while living with this woman, my ex-P visited my family in my home country and asked my father for permission to marry me. My father introduced him to my extended family. We took traditional wedding photos. Everyone in my family liked him very much. This was an amazing ability of psychopath. He could fool anyone despite language barrier. By the way, my father is an N, but he was totally fooled by my ex-P.
It was my counselor at work who told me that my ex-fiance has traits of Antisocial Personality Disorder. Through counseling, I learned that my father is an N and being his daughter made me very susceptible to someone like him, psychopath. I had very low self-esteem. My counselor told me that my ex-P thought I was very passive and trusting, so I would never find out anything about him. My girlfriend in Ontario told me that another factor could be that I am a foreigner. I did not speak or understand English very well when I met him. I did not know very well North American culture. I guess he found it easier to control information to manipulate me.
After I found out the truth about him, he went totally NC with me. He never admitted anything or apologized. I sent a letter to my ex-P through my lawyers (whom my ex-P and I met to discuss our prenuptial agreement, well, he fooled my lawyers too!). No response came from him as expected. My lawyers also sent my letter to the other woman. I wanted to warn her about his psychopathic traits and enclosed copies of cards he sent me over the years as evidence. I indicated this website to her, but I do not know how she is doing. He probably explained it away.
Whatever the reason is, my ex-P did not want her to know about his relationship with me. One curious thing is that, suddenly in 2002, he was able to make a $165,000 payment for his house and bought a brand-new car in the same year. As a university professor, you cannot make that much money in one year!
Writing this, I realize how stupid I was. Looking back, I do not know why I stayed with him for so many years. I was very lonely (living in a foreign country alone) and so preoccupied with my career, never took enough time to research on him. He gave me undivided attention while we were together. I never thought he was unfaithful.
I did not lose anything financially (well, I did not have much money to begin with), but I lost my 10 years. Now I am 40, but my eyes are wide open. Through this very painful experience, I learned a lot. Reading this site, I realized that a life without him is so much better!
Now, I am NC with my ex-P. My future is unknown, but holds a possibility that I may find a true love, which was impossible with my ex-P. There are still some days I get so depressed. Sometimes, I use my sick days to stay home, like today. I allowed myself to take it easy until the end of this month.
My family, my girlfriend and my counselor helped me so much through this difficult time. They understood how crazy my ex-P was. I was very lucky to have them. For them and myself, I will live very well. I am still hopeful. Thank you for reading.
Chaos,
Thank you for openly sharing your story with us, I hope that that helps you toward healing. I am glad that you have some supportive network to validate yourself.
YOu did not deserve this kind of treatment, and he was using you. He took every advantage of you to lie to you, and deceive you.
The other woman may listen and she may not, they are pretty good at “explaining” things to people who want to believe them. (as you did) I know in my mind that he is using her as well.
It sounds like you are on the right path to healing. Be kind to yourself, you could not have known what he was. God bless.