As many of us have painfully learned, before sociopaths dump one victim, they usually have already targeted another. In the following letter, a Lovefraud reader asked what she should do about the new victim:
I am finally away from the sociopath, although he still continues to contact me from time to time demanding money. He has a new target—as always, a financially secure woman, vulnerable and he has “given her a shoulder to cry on.” Her father just died, her mother has cancer and she stands to inherit some valuable land and she is already “hooked” thinking that he is “so caring” and “has been there for her and she for him.” He has told her I left him took all his money, etc.—the same story I got 10 years ago.
I’d like to be selfish in this, and just let him wander on to the new target, which means he will leave me entirely alone, but I feel so bad knowing he is going to ruin the life of a naive, vulnerable woman. My predecessor told me she “thanked God every day that I came along,” and part of me wants to do the same and let him “move on,” but I feel somewhere I should warn this woman. Had my predecessor told me everything she eventually told me, things would have been a lot different. I lost everything, including my social standing, my reputation, my integrity and self respect, not to mention my company and all my assets through his wild spending and lying about “business deals” and his abilities.
My question is this: Should I contact the other woman and tell her what I know? Or can I just “mind my own business” and let nature take its course. I wish someone had told me what I was facing.
Try to warn
This is a question I’ve heard many times. Should you warn the next victim?
In my opinion, if you can do it safely, I think you should try.
If you believe the predator fits the description of a sociopath, it may help to describe him or her that way. When people realize there is a personality disorder called sociopathy, and the disorder has distinct symptoms, it may make the warning more effective.
For example, if you said, “the guy (or woman) will cheat on you and take your money,” the next target, having already been told by the predator that you’re a disgruntled lover, may assume that you’re just bitter.
But if you said, “I believe the guy (or woman) is a sociopath, and to learn more about the disorder you should read Lovefraud.com,” maybe the person will go to the Internet, look up the behaviors and then recognize the symptoms.
Will the new victim listen?
The key question, of course, is will the new target heed your warning? We all know how good sociopaths are at flattery, soliciting pity and manipulation. The sociopath has already told the new target about all the terrible things you did to him or her. The sociopath may have the new target partially or totally brainwashed. Your words may or may not get through.
Still, you know what will happen to the new target. You know the pain and devastation the predator will inflict. You know what you’ve been through, and you don’t want to wish it on anyone.
In my view, you should try to prevent another casualty. But what do you think?
Should you try? Do you think the new victim will listen? Did someone try to warn you? Did you listen?
Please post your views on the Lovefraud Blog.
Ladies, I think we may be onto something here. My xs girlfriend, the one I kept trying to warn about him, told me that she wasn’t too worried about him cheating on her because he had started having problems with ED! He just turned 40! She told me this about 4 months after he left me. I know one thing for sure, if he is having ED he CERTAINLY wan’t having any problems when he left here! He seemed to be able to perform 2-3 times a day–with everyone he could find and then come home to me and want more!
Tami.. so.. what can we all do about it, finding answers is part of the cure, solidarity and support is something we all need even though most of us are thousands of miles apart, networking/help groups on a face to face basis has to be helpful, there must be a way to set something up. It took me a while to find this site and it shouldn’t be so difficult, there are literally millions of women out there who are in this ghastly position, who are utterly crushed and lonely, and there are millions out there who are waiting to be victims. When my girls attended their secondary school it was ran by a fantastic guy who would not tolerate bullying in any shape and he used to expose the bully by calling him to the stage during assemble and warning the other pupils, exposing the bully and recommending that everyone stayed clear. My nephew was a target of bullying and he finally had a severe nervous breakdown. Why should these extremely dangerous men get away with it… God I’m angry but also would love to be proactive in some way
so how do we find out the answers to what they did, i am healing but there is alot of stuf i still do not know. it doesnt really matter but i still think it would help more to know. how do we find out some of the things they do and lies they tell .how did everyone on her find out things. i cant access his phone bills anymore i did at first cause they still came to my address but not now. it did shed a lot of light though and it helped me to see him for who he really was. any sugestions. thanks.
Its the us not knowing that really may give them a huge kick, after all they are without conscience or emotion, but some of them are so cunning and clever, yes its good for us all to air our thoughts get things off our chests, but even when they are exposed they still continue with their games, still go on to do further damage. I seem to be spending a considerable amount of time asking the ‘whys’ to the detriment of not being able to focus on the future which I now have to do. Its the people who really don’t realise what they are dealing with, we are the strong ones the next victims are the weak ones and should be helped. We have some great editors who would probably delight in a juicy story, we don’t have to individualise past victims but publication would be an achievement and could change things and make us stronger in the knowledge that there is solidarity? Comments please V
jules I know the “needing to know more” thing is haunting. I only count myself lucky in a sick sort of way to have stumbled onto the truths that I did. I dont think there is a way to really go seek the truth about what the S did with his time in reality. It has to just accidentally come out somehow, thru weird circumstances only did I find out some real truth about what all was going on at different times.
My opinion is that whatever you do already either know or feel thru intuition is enough for you to have ended up on this site. Therefore, try to let the past be the past and move forward on your knowledge, though you will always wish you knew more, as if it would somehow further prove to yourself that he is a creep.
As my mom kept telling me, just to know he is a creep, is enough to move on, based on the fact that he is a very high risk relationship. The odds that he is cheating, lying, manipulating etc… are too high to even think maybe he’s not such a creep afterall.
Human nature is to really really want to know more – but in my opinion, its best to try to control that urge, and move your energy forward to better thoughts, gaining a healthier you and not allowing any of the sick thinking he brings into our heads, any more space there.
Findingmyselfagain is 100% right on. I KNOW the psychological need to know “all the details” all the lies, etc. is there. I felt it myself, I OBSCESSED ABOUT IT. But until I quit doing all that I couldn’t move on FORWARD, all I could do is look BACK.
Yes, we know enough already to know they are TOXIC, what more do we need to know? What difference is it if he had an affair with 5 women or 6?
We can’t go before him forever and warn the women he will meet….that keeps him in our heads and our lives, makes us literally stalkers.
The only thing we can do is to distance ourselves (and our children if we can) from this TOXIC person, and focus on OURSELVES and what made us a victim to start with?
Learn the RED FLAGS and watch for them in any future relationship and when we SEE ONE, to distance ourselves from that person as well, knowing that THEY are also probably TOXIC…we don’t have to “give them the benefit of the doubt” If they wave a red flag, RUN.
Use WISDOM and COMMON SENSE rather than emotional “logic” which is built not on real “logic” but on fantasy.
We are NOT required to accept bad behavior from anyone. We need to set boundaries and enforce them. I would be willing to bet doughnuts to dollars that 99.9% of us were chosen as victims because we were giving caring people who did not have solid boundaries. When the bad behavior started we felt bad, but we didn’t set solid boundaries and say THIS BEHAVIOR WILL NOT BETOLERATED.
Yes, some of them were cunning and held out fantasy carrots to us, and we grabbed for the carrots, but when they began to twist the “blame” for their problems on to us, if we had solid boundaries we would not have accepted the “blame” and “responsibility” for their problems. At least in my case that is 100% true.
I am no longer “responsible” for another’s happiness. I am no longer responsible for doing something for someone else that they should be doing for themselves. If they have a problem because of their own poor planning or bad behavior, it is not my responsibility to FIX it. It is amazing how “powerful” people can become and how self reliant when you refuse to do for them what they should be doing for themselves. Whether or not they are Ns or Ps or just people who want someone else to take responsibility for their lives.
Being helpful to someone who is taking responsibility for themselves is fine, but we need, I think, to learn the differences in enabling and helping someone who is really doing the best they can.
To me, I know my Ps were TOXIC and all the details in the world won’t make them any more toxic, but does keep me from focusing on the future–on improving my own boundary setting and defenses in a reasonable manner without becoming paranoid or bitter. The past is past and now on to the future, to a new me, a better and more confident me.
To Jules, OxDover, Findingmyselfagain, v.abraded, tami, everyone…
I have to say first to Jules, it is correct.. let go of the details. This is what I was trying to convey in one of my essays for LoveFraud.. that the details don’t matter once you have found your story here. Basically, it’s like this: yes, he did that… only in your town and not mine… but it’s the same.
Details do bug us and keep us circling. No one wants to be lied to and deceived. I think sometimes that if we don’t know everything… we feel like a sucker. And that is a crappy feeling. We just have to know because it makes us feel smarter because we figured it out. But, dear jules, we are not suckers. We are victims of a very sick person. One so out of the ordinary that it really does a number on us. So, be patient and create a little letting go meditation for yourself, whatever that means to you.
Here is what you really need to know:
You are not alone in obsessing over wanting to know.
You are not alone in having many unanswered questions.
You are not alone in having fallen for a person like this.
You are not alone.
You are understood here even if we don’t know the details… we still know how it feels and we understand.
Thanks a million to Donna for creating this space of healing for us.. this imaginary place where we feel comfortable to talk about the most intimate things and to pour out our grief, share our broken dreams, and have the courage to start anew.
So jules, my advice is to try to limit yourself on the obsessing. Say… “Today, I will only allow myself 30 minutes to wonder about who, what, where, when, why.” Have a plan for something to do when the time is up. Start a movie, go for a walk with a friend, have lunch with someone and make your Bad Man experience off limits.
Give yourself a rest. You probably need it.
And to all the other good readers… when I first found this site, it was Donna, and M.L., and Dr. Leedom shining the light and leading people toward recovery. Now, I see it is many of us… it’s so cool to see this. I feel like I am sitting around, eating chocolate and drinking wine and maybe even laughing sometimes at what a nightmare that was and THANK GOD I am on the other side of it!
And who was it that posted yesterday that she just left? Wasn’t that awesome?! That made me feel so good. I hope she peeled out, tires screeching and all… HAHA! This is how I am picturing it… TRIUMPHANT!
Is my life still a mess? Yes. Definately.
Do I still have boundary issues? Yes.. but at least I know that now… I mean now I know about boundaries! Good Grief! Before, I just didn’t know. I really didn’t know. I thought I was being caring, compassionate, flexible, easy going.
I see evolution here in people’s lives from the sharing and it makes me feel a part of something good. This is an appropriate place to excerise caring and compassion.
Anyway, I had such a good time making meatloaf last weekend that I am going to do it again. :o) It feels great to chop all those ingredients to bits. Just to be crazy… here is a link to the recipe I am using. It’s LoveFraud Meatloaf night. LOL!!!
http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/107599
I agree with “beentheredonethat”, who warned the next victim and “Did she listen. No. She stood by his side thinking their amazing connection (after 2 weeks) was true, soul matched love. You see, she was already hooked and bought his lies about how it was the other crazy women who were full spite, no doubt. But I felt compelled to do my civic duty on behalf of womanhood. I did not want to punish him or get back. I wanted to put it out in the universe because maybe, if someone had warned me I would not have had to experience the soul torturing hell of life with a narcissist/socio and the unbearable difficult healing”the lost time. The crushed spirit. I wanted to spare another soul. “
I warned my Sociopaths next victim. Within 4 months she is buying him a house worth over a million dollars. Her family has money. He, who doesn’t even own a toilet, thinks he’s really hit pay dirt. Heaven knows what he has said about me…but I know what horrible things he said about his ex-wife, (all untrue) because she has become a very good friend of mine, and I am trying to “fix” some of the extreme emotional and financial devastation he has wreaked upon her…she spent 33 years with this man, and she (God help her) may never be “normal”.
My S’s new love called the police on me after I contacted her, and her brother, in an attempt to warn them that they should NOT invest with the Sociopath or they will lose it all. The Sociopath has a history of failed business and has ripped-off every former friend and business partner. I told him they should look at his tax returns. He lives like a millionaire, but in fact I saw his social security tax statements and he never made over $8,000 since 1980!! Of course, he is committing income tax fraud and money laundering as well. My conscience is clear that I did try, but she was in denial, disbelief, and hostile. Of course she doesn’t know she is a victim.
I have removed myself from this situation…I cannot save the world but have done my civic duty. One of my best friends tried to warn me, but the Sociopath had an immediate response for everything and although I did have some red flags, I believed him over her (her boss was his former best friend and business partner). My friend and I have rebuilt our relationship and are actually better friends than we were before.
“beentheredonethat” also said, “Deep down we all fear she will be the one he truly loves. Well, you were once that woman to the one who preceded you. And looked what happened. It will happen again, but once he knows his current victim has been warned, he is like a virus and will mutate his agenda and game to be even better at it next time. So truth is, we might actually be facilitating his sickness onto another by helping him evolve to an even higher level of deception.”
I read a very interesting article regarding the next woman, and am putting the website here. I do not know if anyone on Lovefraud has referenced this previously.
http://www.geocities.com/andifekete/nicer.html
Something else about Sociopaths I have found fascinating is: How can they pass lie detector tests? The answer, I believe, lies below:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/07/02/070702fa_fact_talbot?currentPage=9
Elizabeth Phelps, a prominent cognitive neuroscientist at N.Y.U., who studies emotion and the brain, questions another basic assumption behind all lie-detection schemes—that telling a falsehood creates conflict within the liar. With the polygraph, the assumption is that the conflict is emotional: the liar feels guilty or anxious, and these feelings produce a measurable physiological response. With brain imaging, the assumption is that the conflict is cognitive: the liar has to work a little harder to make up a story, or even to stop himself from telling the truth. Neither is necessarily right. “Sociopaths don’t feel the same conflict when they lie,” Phelps says. “The regions of the brain that might be involved if you have to inhibit a response may not be the same when you’re a sociopath, or autistic, or maybe just strange. Whether it’s an emotional or a cognitive conflict you’re supposed to be exhibiting, there’s no reason to assume that your response wouldn’t vary depending on what your personal tendencies are—on who you are.”
Another site I found interesting was on “Tricksters”. Read A – Z below, Trickster sounds synonymous with Sociopath to me.
http://www.infowest.com/business/g/gentle/tricksters.html
Sometimes we are just too stressed and preoccupied to listen to warning messages coming from deep within.
Happy Sunday
I have realised that the only person who can fill me in on the details is him. But apart from a miracle, he will never confess to me what he got up to and there wont be an apology. I would hazard a guess that even if he did tell me his version of the truth, he would still pile on more excuses. At first I was so sore wondering what deviousness he had committed, trying to piece it together like a jigsaw. I have come to the conclusion and have to accept that I will never know. The best thing I ever did was to get shot of him.
These last 6 months have been a nightmare experience for me, but in a sense the worst has gone, because this was the period when I was in a romantic fantasy fog and I was being worked over – this was the worst bit. During the first 6 months without him, I followed the same round of emotional turmoil as many here, but i can honestly say that he is behind me now – and it really does start to get better and I have learnt the lesson in a bigger way then I ever imagined. As quoted on Cyberpaths – they took the higher quality of love and abused it.
Thank you for the link ‘Tricksters’ it was like a breath of fresh air abeit a wakeup call, over the weekend I had been doubting myself and thought I was being dramatic and even tempted to get in touch with him and say sorry. This is such a roller coaster of emotions, but thank you all for being there, without you all where would I be now? Probably on my knees begging him to return, and yes I would have been that weak thirteen years of total adoration, trust, respect and commitment is hard to trash. Hugs to you all V