As many of us have painfully learned, before sociopaths dump one victim, they usually have already targeted another. In the following letter, a Lovefraud reader asked what she should do about the new victim:
I am finally away from the sociopath, although he still continues to contact me from time to time demanding money. He has a new target—as always, a financially secure woman, vulnerable and he has “given her a shoulder to cry on.” Her father just died, her mother has cancer and she stands to inherit some valuable land and she is already “hooked” thinking that he is “so caring” and “has been there for her and she for him.” He has told her I left him took all his money, etc.—the same story I got 10 years ago.
I’d like to be selfish in this, and just let him wander on to the new target, which means he will leave me entirely alone, but I feel so bad knowing he is going to ruin the life of a naive, vulnerable woman. My predecessor told me she “thanked God every day that I came along,” and part of me wants to do the same and let him “move on,” but I feel somewhere I should warn this woman. Had my predecessor told me everything she eventually told me, things would have been a lot different. I lost everything, including my social standing, my reputation, my integrity and self respect, not to mention my company and all my assets through his wild spending and lying about “business deals” and his abilities.
My question is this: Should I contact the other woman and tell her what I know? Or can I just “mind my own business” and let nature take its course. I wish someone had told me what I was facing.
Try to warn
This is a question I’ve heard many times. Should you warn the next victim?
In my opinion, if you can do it safely, I think you should try.
If you believe the predator fits the description of a sociopath, it may help to describe him or her that way. When people realize there is a personality disorder called sociopathy, and the disorder has distinct symptoms, it may make the warning more effective.
For example, if you said, “the guy (or woman) will cheat on you and take your money,” the next target, having already been told by the predator that you’re a disgruntled lover, may assume that you’re just bitter.
But if you said, “I believe the guy (or woman) is a sociopath, and to learn more about the disorder you should read Lovefraud.com,” maybe the person will go to the Internet, look up the behaviors and then recognize the symptoms.
Will the new victim listen?
The key question, of course, is will the new target heed your warning? We all know how good sociopaths are at flattery, soliciting pity and manipulation. The sociopath has already told the new target about all the terrible things you did to him or her. The sociopath may have the new target partially or totally brainwashed. Your words may or may not get through.
Still, you know what will happen to the new target. You know the pain and devastation the predator will inflict. You know what you’ve been through, and you don’t want to wish it on anyone.
In my view, you should try to prevent another casualty. But what do you think?
Should you try? Do you think the new victim will listen? Did someone try to warn you? Did you listen?
Please post your views on the Lovefraud Blog.
Yes, I finally pushed my ex s girlfriend and she fired an email back at me telling me that no cared about mine and his relationship anymore and that everyone thought I was nuts! She said all that mattered now was their relationship. I’ve told her repeatedly that I’m only concerned for her. In my opinion, she has a totally crazy way of looking at it but I think it’s because she just doesn’t understand what he is capable of although she says she knows that he has a very bad past and has done horrible things–she still insists that he’s changed for her because he says that she’s the only woman he’s ever loved. I told her that she hasn’t repeated a thing that he’s said to her that he didn’t say to me. She also says that if he turns out to treat her like the rest that she’ll just enjoy him while she has him. She’s also said that she guesses if he cheats on her that she would probably stay with him anyway. I’ve told her that she is living a very risky life. She acknowledges this but to be quite honest, I think all her statements are just a way of blowing me off. She honestly believes with all her heart that he would NEVER treat her in this manner! I believed it to the entire 8 years I was with him and all the while, he was leading a double life. And, my! Aren’t they the biggest sneaks of all sneaks? And, the way they can go behind our backs and do just horrible things against us and then be the most perfect loving and caring people in the world to our faces just astounds me! This is the part that the “new” victims can’t understand. I’m a former victim and it still amazes me! Someone said it’s like they have a manual that they all follow. So true! It seems that they all live by the very same book! I’m also now amazed at how easily it is for me to look back and see how he displayed classic sociopathatic behavior during my years with him. Of course, I’ve had to educate myself about the behavior itself in order to understand it. My son once told me that there was something wrong with my ex. I asked him what he meant and he replied, “nobody is THAT damn nice!”. LOL! He was so very correct! The Mr. Nice Guy act is only a ploy to gain the trust of everyone they encounter and then used to discredit his victims later. Ladies, it’s a terrible experience that we’ve had to endure in being the victims of these horrible people; however, aren’t we glad that at least it prompted us to seek the knowledge we have learned so maybe, just maybe, we’ll NEVER be victims of these people again!
peggy whoever, ox drover;i totally agree with you both. they do get worse with age i think and would be interesting to find out if this is a proven medical fact that it gets worse with age. any doctors know if this is the case. also if they feel they have been crossed and the truth is revealed watch it get a lot worse. in my case my ex s path thought i had lied to him about something, that is when the nice pretence stopped and he treated me worse but it was underhanded at first and i didnt realise right off it was after we broke up and he kept sleeping with me but as i now know he was sleeping with other woman and persuing them, hense putting me at risk of sexual diseases after a while he started to use a condom but not at first after we broke up. when we broke up he was 1 . mad because he thought i had been lying to him 2 he was found out of a lot of things so admitted to me about his lying, but i think there is still things i dont know what happened behind my back while with him and after when he was just sleeping with me. so once i knew all this tuff about him and was waking up and still catching hi m out at things his behaviour toward me got worse as if he had nothing to gain from me so he just abused the whole friendship, used me and lied to meignored me then tried to pick it back up with me when he felt he needed someone. so looking back while in the relationship although i dont know everything that went on he was actually prety nice to me too nice almost but when it was all over and he thought i had crossed him, totally different guy. and dangerous i dont mean physically but mentally seeking revenge on me. anyway hes now got a new girl and i dont know her but i think her family may have money from the area she lives in, so big attraction for him there. i dont contact him anymore and i m not going to interfere as he knows too many ways to get back at me so i will leave them to it i know nothing about her but i can only hope she sees thru him some how but it is very difficult he is the best at what he does and fools a lot of people. it seems like each time he gets scorned by a woman he gets more a nd more vindictive and desperate to find another one. also if another woman hurt him he seemed to tak it out on me even though i had nothing to do with it or even knew theother woman. does this make any sense to any of you. i am also interested to know more a bout the dreaming thing, though at first i thought you meant ambitious dreams about the future which i dont think they are capable of having real ambitions only in fantasy. i cant remember if mine had dreams or not iodnt rememeber him talking about it so maybe not. thanks
Jules:
It makes perfect sense to me from the “cracked mirror” philosophy or perspective LilOrphan used here (and I quote below as well as your previous statements regarding a mirror).
Evidently, the Sociopath needs a “perfect” image reflected back to them, i.e., they are handsome, charming, kind, generous, smart, etc. Once the mirror cracks (you are onto them) they become vengeful, cruel, and you become the object of their hatred. Your comments from another blog were, “And they will use anyone they can either as a mirror or a way to find a mirror, until that source gets boring or gets wise”.
LilOrphan said, “…A mirror…Ns need a mirror reflecting their “perfection” back at them. When the mirror cracks, like when they do something and you dare to say, “hey, wait a minute – that’s not fair/right/kind/loving/ethical” you no longer serve to mirror their greatness and give them the adoration they need. At that point, or later, you get deliberate cruelty and they disappear”.
This specifically happened with my Sociopath. We (my 3 children and I) loved and adored him. He was excessively generous (we mistook this for loving) from gifts, travel, meeting needs and took me/us on luxurious vacations, fancy dinners out, etc.) The girls used to say, “ah _ _ _ _ _ _ , you’re such a nice guy!” and I see now that he ate that up.
Last August he got a call in the middle of the night on his house phone and explained it away as one of his employees’ wives calling in an employee sick the next day. He was traveling out of town for a couple of months and came home less on weekends, and became more evasive and distant. Then the kids and I went to Florida and he was becoming mean…at one point I asked him, “if there was a problem with our relationship would you tell me?” and he replied, “Eventually”. I was with two of my best girlfriends in Florida, and they both said, whoa, that is not a good sign.
We came home from Florida and the first night home (he lived in my house for 3 years as he doesn’t have one), his house phone again rang in the middle of the night. Then the next morning he received a call both on his cell phone and his house phone (we both had private house and cell phones…he could answer mine, I was not allowed to answer his). He answered his house phone, uttered a couple of words, and went outside on the porch. His house phone rang again and I answered it…nobody there. Then I did *69 and guess what? His number came up. He walked back in the house and I said, “_ _ _ _ _ _, why did you call your house phone?” He replied, “because I wanted to check my messages”. We both knew this was a lie. He called the phone to erase the last number received.
For about 15 seconds, we both looked each other in the eyes as the revelation was made to me that he was 1) lying and 2) having an affair. He left that day and never returned, although that morning (before the phone calls) we had a disscusion whereby he said he was 1) not having an affair 2) not seeing anyone and 3) not talking to anyone on the phone in response to some questions and concerns I had about our relationship
The degree and intensity of emotional, and verbal cruelty from that point on was a roller coaster ride of emotions as he berated me, said we had nothing in common (although we used to get along about 95% of the time…the only time we didn’t was when he had one of his “rages”–(over entirely insignificant and inconsequential matters, by the way–having to do, I believe, with his need for power as I read in the blogs yesterday. Furthermore, although I consider myself a strong woman, I did not challenge him as he could not tolerate even constructive criticism and I constantly acquiesced to him), he was tired of living in “my house”, he accused me of having an affair (I did not) — projection, calling me names, hanging up on me, etc. This meanness became more hostile and more focused on me as time went on. I have never before or since experienced such turmoil and actually thought there was something physiologically wrong with him, i.e., he had a brain tumor and needed help. He was FURIOUS, LIVID that I went through his things, and “discovered” what he was up to, absolutely ENRAGED.
Within a very short time (a few weeks or days even for all I know) he met a woman online that he is still with 5 months later whose family has (a lot) of money and I’m sure he is thrilled to pieces. Within 4 months she made the commitment to buy him a million dollar plus house. I’m telling you, this guy is good, a real con artist or trickster (did you see the link I posted previously for this? If not look it up…I say socipath and trickster are synonymous). Money is his whole agenda. He told his former best friends that “I don’t love her, it’s all about the money” (in reference to me). (I own my home and some investment property). I have recently seen (from his ex-wife) that the most money he EVER made since 1980 is $8,000 (many years he made 0…he also cheats on his taxes and is currently being investigated for this). But the children and I, and all of our friends thought at first that he was a multimillionaire as he owned two businesses (he lost one and stole at least $130K from his partner). It was not until he was out of the house, and I went through his entire office, computer, and files that I discovered the truth about his finances (and now his ex-wife and I are very good friends, so she has shared a wealth of information with me). I was amazed. No, stunned is a better word. Shocked. I had no idea he was such a scammer, lier, cheater…and coward.
I am coming to believe that there is a sub-set of personality characteristics of sociopaths besides the “profile of a sociopath” from reading here and doing research. I would like Dr. Leedom and Dr. Steve’s opinion of this:
Subset of Personality Characteristics of a Sociopath
1. Abandonment of children
2. Lack of dreaming or dreaming very little
3. Sociopathy is a progressive disease (gets worse with age and time)
4. Sociopaths must have a mirror of perfection reflected back at them, and when the mirror cracks, they seek out new relationships
5. They are not monogomous but have serial relationships/affairs which are generally short-term
6. They have few, if any, long term relationships with friends or family members, i.e., have a long trail of broken relationships
7. They cannot stand to be alone, and very quickly change from one relationship to another
8. They are always the “victim” in relationships and never take any personal accountability or responsibiltiy for their behaviour
9. They commonly use projection, i.e., they accuse you of the things they are doing
10. There are verbal cues for their behaviours…i.e., my sociopath used to say it’s all “smoke and mirrors”, he wanted to be an actor (he is the best), he used to tell me I hated him (I didn’t, it randomly came out of nowhere, and when I replied I didn’t and why did he say this, he said, “just give it time, you will”, and he also used to say “done is done” and this is so apt and true of him, he has no long-term friendships or relationships, and when he is finished with you, you become a disposable diaper.
11. Sociopaths cannot tolerate criticism or questioning of them in any manner
12. They have a constant need for power and control…over events, situations, and most of all control over people
13. They are cowards. They dish out their abuse in private, through attorneys, over the phone, or over the internet. They cannot stand confrontation, as they (this comes full circle now) cannot stand to see the cracked mirror.
Sociopathy is a fascinating study. Too bad we had to learn about it first hand.
What is your opinion of this sub-set? There may be some cross-over to the original “Profile of a Sociopath” as I did not reference it as I wrote this.
Best regards,
Peggy Pseu
http://www.infowest.com/business/g/gentle/tricksters.html
From the link above regarding “Tricksters”, these may also be subset characteristics of a Sociopath (there are many others in the link which I also believe are applicable) but did not copy them all for simplicity and because of concerns for copyright infringement. Below are direct quotes from the link (renumbered) with most items omitted:
“1. Not always, but more often than not, they are fitness oriented, as they need to maintain their image. This interest in appearing fit usually has little to do with good health.
2. They love to talk, but only listen to find personal weaknesses or flaws in those with whom they converse, which can be used to their advantage at some future time, i.e., blackmail.
3. They love to draw up and sign agreement contracts as a way to help “protect” you.
4. Believing themselves above the law, they circumvent as many regulations as possible.
5. They “lure” people into money making schemes and partnerships to separate them from their money, and are adept at discarding folks who are no longer useful to them or have been sucked dry.
6. They are cold, calculating, litigious, and rarely accept responsibility for failure. They act from their mindless ambition, seldom from their heart.
7. Their work and business are always more important than family time. Money is their first priority.”
Peggy,
Dr. Hare’s book “Without Conscience” contends that psychopaths tend to mellow with age and that as they approach middle age they are less violent etc.
He was studying a certain set of psychpaths however, mostly criminals who were incarcerated. Maybe that is the case with the criminal element of psychopaths, who I would think, would generally be in the lower educational, and lower socio-economic levels etc of society. Maybe they do “mellow out” somewhat, and maybe they don’t do as many violent crimes after they reach middle age etc.
However, as my P-son approaches middle age (he’s 37) I see NO mellowing in his actions or attempts at violence.
The serial short term relationships is pretty much covered in Hare’s “checklist.” My P son didn’t qualify in that point simply because he has been in jail or prison most of his life since age 17, though he did impregnate a 13 year old when he was 17.
I think your list of “sub set” behaviors is pretty much right on with most of them as well that I have dealt with.
I think the previous post (can’t remember the thread off hand CRS!) that was talking about the ambition factor–the ones with AMBITION who seek high offices in gov’t and industry etc. make more attempts to keep up the “reputation” than do the ones like my son who go directly to violence early on and go to prison.
When my son was a teenager (starting about age 15) he started committing felonies, mostly robbery on the “sly” but like many teenagers whose frontal lobes are not fully developed yet and are so narcissistic they can’t plan successfully “getting away” with their plots, he ended up going to prison because he got caught…at that time he was an “in your face” physically violent if confronted teenager.
Now after 20-ish years in prison, he has learned more of the coniving, conning, fake repentence, etc. to your face thing, but is still very willing to use violence, and even another murder by proxy to achieve his goals.
He has been able to plan and implement a very complex fraud on our family,, which fortunately did not succeed, but very well could have done so, in an effort to circumvent a family trust and obtain for him and his co-conspiritor all our assets, after our “unfortunate” deaths. I have no doubt though that if it had succeeded he would NOT have “split the proceeds” with his co-conspiritor who would also have had an “unfortunate” death. It really boggles the mind that they can be so determined to CONTROL everything and everyone.
In a way, however, I am grateful that the last attempt was made, because in the end, it saved my life, and sanity, and prompted me to go NC with him. I never fully trusted him and his fake “repentence” but at the same time, I was enabling him, and had done so for years in the last malignant hope that maybe, just maybe, he was sincere.
The benefits to me from severing the relationship with him are VAST and I think I am happier in many ways than I have ever been in my life, at least since he was entering into puberty and started all the “stuff.” I have come to an acceptence that he is what he is, I can’t change it, and the son that I loved and enjoyed as a young child is DEAD. I can close the emotional coffin lid on that child, and remember the good times, but I know he no longer exists, even if his body is animated by the “alien” that took it over. The man that IS is not the child I loved. If that makes any sense.
peggy whoever; thanks for your reply. and yes i totally agree to what you have said and i can relate to your experience mine was very similar. when he knew i had found out stuff he was doing , he said i dont love you any more and i am leaving and you love me more than i love you. and he left within a week. he never told me the real reason i know he left cause i found out stuff he was doing and cause he thought i had lied to him and i was he thought too old for him. he never told me those real reasons just the other crap which wasnt true. he also told me he wanted his freedon but then proceeded to call ervery female he knew for company and was seeking a relationship right away almost while still sleeping with me. ye s it it true about the vengence he thought i had lied and deserved to be punished but all the lies he told go unpunished to this day. your sub set of traits is him also to a tee. on both your lists, he is into fitness to impress and look good to females not cause he enjoys it. now he has a new girl he has more or less forgotten me totally and will be running me down to her even though she doesnt know me from a bar of soap. i do think this illness they have gets worse its like the more failures they have the more vengefull they become against people they think have slighted them. in regards to yours saying i will tell you eventually mine used to say a similar thing he said if i leave i will explain it all to you so you will understand . i was like well that sounds like a warning how strange to say this when your suposed to be in love ? i think mine is also in love with being in love or what he thinks is love, he just seems to crave it and all that goes with it the sex and controll of being in a close relationship. yes this new girl is from a good family which he will think is great just hope maybe her parents see him as a loser with nothing to offer a girl from a good family. before he thought i was lying to him he was the perfect partner like yours too. they all seem the same it is uncanny isnt itlike they are a race unto them selfs different from all other humans and so alike .mine never ripped me off financially though nor has he done this to any one as far as i know.he also seems to want to have children and i think it a satus thing more than love or anything else. i also think mine is trying to prove that he is normal by having a nice pretty normal good girlfriend and a family. thanks a gain .
Jules, yes, you were his cover, his normality. I like to consider it his moral compass, myself.
What was different this time around for me that wasn’t so in the past is that time apart had allowed me to really put him on level playing ground with any other man. He was no longer on some pedestal and I wasn’t blinded, initially, by love for him.
So I saw through everything. Even though I willfully blinded myself again, over time, by dismissing those early red flags and stuff that made me raise an eyebrow or outright recoil.
It was such a cold, barren landscape at first, this time around, before I let go of his 2+2 not equaling 4 and went with the fantasy. So cold that I often thought – and one time actually stated – “what are we doing here in this bar, together?” — because a. bars were no longer my scene, at all, and b. I could feel nothingness coming off him in waves. It gave me a sad feeling, inside, for him. The empath vibe I was picking up was one of both a void and futility within him, an emptiness so cold and deep and devoid of all joy that it was almost physically painful to witness.
Do we have to warn anyone? I guess it will save them some time, or it will fall on deaf ears at first, but eventually if they put it all together, they see for themselves.
And I guess some never do – but then I wonder if those people aren’t happier living in illusion, anyway. I never was. Real, genuine love is palpable.
Never knew that growing up, because I grew up in a home without much of it. Never knew it during my marriage, because he was incapable of love.
It wasn’t until the past five years, as my daughters went from small children to loving, good young women that I actually recognized what it feels like to BE LOVED BACK. Utterly.
Which is probably why the P’s imitation of love didn’t pass muster.
Peggy
Word for word…your P could be mine. I even checked the spaces in the “name” section for that quote of “ah _ _ _ _ _ _ you’re such a nice guy!” because I wanted to see if the same name would fit.
Saying he’s an actor.
Calling it all “smoke and mirrors”
Saying you should hate him or do hate him and then, when you protest, saying you will.
Did yours also say he “got you to believe him” when he thought he’d pulled something over on you?
Was he emotionally distant, withholding, saying “so what if I am?” when he mentioned other women and you suggested he was interested in them?
Are these guys aliens, cut from the same cloth, or just reading from some P script?
Your description of him makes me shudder.
Mine said that I hated him too. When I would tell him I didn’t, he’d say I’ve seen it in your eyes. It didn’t matter what I said he would keep insisting it was true. He only used this one occasionally, but he knew it was effective.
Peggy,
I think your lists are right on. Especially the one point about them getting worse with age.
Oxdrover,
Even though Dr. Hare’s checklist says the opposite, I totally agree with you that it’s a bias of the type of sociopath he has studied. I think that sociopaths generally are seen as “getting better” because they learn how to get away with things and cover them up. After all, practice makes perfect. Especially since he has primarily studied violent sociopaths/psychopaths, the evidence of their actions is being caught and prosecuted, which they probably learn to avoid with experience.
My socio stepmother is nearing fifty and she did not magically grow a conscience, unfortunately. She is just as devious and awful as ever, but she has learned a little more impulse control, making her even scarier.