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By | July 15, 2010 387 Comments

Sociopath quotes the price of his soul

Editor’s note: Lovefraud received the following story from a reader who we’ll call “Jenna.” At the end, she posts a document written by her sociopathic ex about the price of his soul, which provides a unnerving glimpse into how he truly thinks. Names have been changed.

I have spent the last 18 years dealing with a classic sociopath, a man who lies beyond my wildest imagination. I have come to believe that he isn’t just evil that is too easy an explanation. Evil people can’t help themselves; they can be “born bad.” No, this man chooses to be sadistic and mentally cruel. He can be “nice” when he wants to. He has a now four-year-old granddaughter who adores him and thinks her “Papa” hung the moon. If she ever sees on her own what he is, he will be her first broken heart.

He calculates his moves and sets up his victims over a long period of time —  feeding off one woman after another, using the exact same pattern, until they no longer are sating his appetite for whatever it is he hungers for money, respect, ego gratification. I have never met anyone like this before. He enjoys what seems to have been his life’s work. He often said he “didn’t like women or children.” I should have listened.

I met him through work in April 1992. I was 44 years old, attractive and I thought relatively intelligent. My boss knew him from a previous job, considered him an associate, and brought him in to do some computer consulting. Looking back, my first impression was that he was focusing on me, trying to impress me. I should have heeded my bells and listened to my first impressions. He was knowledgeable about everything, charming, and I realize now he talked only about himself, his business plans, his big ideas. Going for lunches developed into a relationship. He was never pushy or all over me just the opposite.

Moves in

He moved in with me on January 2, 1993 after I had broken off with him because I thought he was playing me. I went away that Christmas alone, and when I came home, he was ensconced in my home, with the fireplace burning, two dozen long-stemmed red roses, a bottle of wine and a six-page handwritten letter about what a fool he had been and how much he “loved” me. The fool was me; I let him stay.

I had been on my own for a long time so I tried to establish some beginning boundaries. The first year we were together, he had to pay half the rent and half the living expenses, but slowly that morphed into us having joint accounts, and making decisions as a couple.

Within two months, he would fall asleep on the couch watching TV. I worked, he didn’t. He was trying to build a consulting business, but I think he did nothing most days. I’d come home and he’d be busy doing dishes that he had obviously just started, so it would look like he was busy.

No sex

Within six months, he withdrew sex. “I don’t know why” was his stock answer to every attempt to work through this. I thought maybe he had problems so I backed off and learned to live without a normal and healthy love life. It was step one in completely undermining my own self confidence, self image and willingness to walk away. I was mature, had not been committed enough to really work at previous relationships, so my mindset was, “I love this man and I am going to work at this.”

In 1994 he got a job that lasted four months. He talked me into starting my own business and I did freelance accounting. When he was fired from his job I was never able to find out why, but they let him go on a Tuesday and paid him only to the end of that day, which had to mean just cause. Knowing what I know now, no doubt he was inappropriate with female staff or maybe even male staff, because now I wonder about everything. Nothing was as it seemed.

August 1996 and he has just started his second job lasted six months, during which, I find out, he has been having an affair with the receptionist. He moved out March 1997 and came back begging me to give him another chance in May, saying he was nothing without me; he might as well go live on “skid row” because he would never be able to get off the couch again if I wouldn’t take him back. We had a business to consider he reminded me. He made love to me four times during the “take me back” stage. Soon as he was safely back, sex stopped, but he did come to bed at night. In later years, he would sleep in the living room, on the couch every night, in his clothes and only came downstairs to get a change of underwear, knowing that hurt me and was the exact opposite of what I wanted.

In business together

Over the years this scenario was repeated. In 17 years he held down four jobs, all of which lasted max six months. He talked me into going into business with him and we are 50% shareholders in a small home-based business that supported us from 1999 onward. I am seriously living to regret this, as I divorce and try to extricate myself from him. He talked on the phone a lot, and I did all the heavy lifting.

I had my life savings, which wasn’t much, but it bought us the home I live in now. We moved here in 1999. Yet another “job” he had, this time contracted through our company. He lasted five months in what was supposed to be a five-year contract.

I have to say that the privacy act and employer’s unwillingness to share information is a tremendous handicap to women in my position. Even as 50% owner of the company, no one is willing to tell the truth. If any one of the people who saw through him, anywhere along the line, had had the courage to tell me what my husband was up to, it would have opened my eyes. I was getting his side of the story only, and his best skill is, he is a honed and practiced liar. No matter how suspicious or concerned or questioning I might be, he could talk himself out of it, so I’d wind up giving him the “benefit of the doubt.”

Job in Florida

On April 21, 2009 my husband (he wanted to get married in 2003) left “on business” to take a consulting job in Florida. When he left, I prayed that this would be make it or break it. My health and spirit were so broken that his decision to take this job was almost a relief.

A month after he was gone I began to feel better physically, but such was my commitment to my marriage that I actually said out loud, what worried me was he would want to come back, and I wouldn’t want him to. I would feel obligated to take him back, even though I knew I was living in a toxic relationship. A counselor said to me afterwards that if you have a kind heart, cut people some slack and believe in God, and in doing unto others, you are custom made for this type of predator. They count on it! Your decency and your ability to love and forgive are the very tools they use against you.

First month, he web-cammed daily while I helped him get set up, furnish his apartment and paid his bills. He phoned me 10 times a day on his way down to Florida, saying how much he missed me already.

Cheating

The lies kept up until June 27, 2009 when he avoided an opportunity to web-cam home to see our 3-year old Granddaughter who was visiting. Everything began to add up. I spent all day July 1, 2009 trying to figure out how to hire a private detective in Florida. Turns out he had put himself on a dating site within three weeks of arriving there, and he had “grown an inch” from the time he left here. By August he was on Craig’s list as well and had grown yet another inch!

I had to take control of our business servers and over the course of the next few months I received emails from two women, who came after the one the private investigator filmed him with. His story to them he had been a widower for 40 years, had raised his two girls alone, his wife had been tragically killed in a car accident, t-boned when his youngest was just 2 months old. He had sacrificed himself to raise his daughters. Turned out I wasn’t the dead wife he was speaking of he was actually referring to his first wife, who is alive and well and who is still married to the man who really helped her raise the children.

Second woman who contacted me, did so because she had been told I was his “cousin” and I “worked for him” and she wanted to know if I was going to be helping her learn how to work for him. Both the women who contacted me were kind enough to send me the “ads” they answered, and photos of themselves and one even send me photos of them together, which I could have lived without.

My honesty saved the two women who connected with me, but every woman who crosses his path is at risk. I have come to see that he is like a reverse serial rapist. It is all about power and control, and once he assesses what you want and need most from him, in my case, warmth, love and affection, he withholds that from you. He apparently was quite lustful with the women he met on line and I wonder now, who was he cheating on me with during the 10 years we’ve been in this town? A man doesn’t go from being celibate for 17 years to suddenly being active. I now consider it a gift that he didn’t touch me at least I know my health isn’t at risk.

The document

Interestingly enough, in the “document” you read below, the woman referred to as “Marsha” is in fact his first wife (you know, the one who wasn’t killed in a car accident). The second woman he mentions, is the woman he cheated on “Marsha” with and left Marsha for. It would seem that none of us who came after mattered at all.

I found this document while searching his computer using the word “university” because he claimed to have a Bachelor of Commerce degree and I wanted to share that with my lawyer. This document, written by him on Oct. 1, 2005 at 7:30 pm, popped up. His oldest daughter’s birthday. The night after my 58th birthday. Two years and one month to the day after our marriage, and two months before he would “set me up” by putting me as sole director of our company, which as it turns out, has backfired on him, but it was part of a long-term plan he had and was slowly working on, a trap that would be used when he was ready to spring it.

I can tell you that when I opened this document, it embarrassed me to read it. I never knew this man at all. I have no doubt that I was in my office working, or making dinner, or cleaning up after dinner, while he sat in his office writing this. I can tell you that knowing what I know now, he doesn’t have “a soul to sell.”

I’m weeks away from my divorce being final. He has fought me every step of the way, threatening me, filing lawsuits against the company, using the business and my fear of losing my home and what little security I have left. He has harassed both me and my lawyers, gone out of his way to increase my legal fees, hoping to break me. He represents himself, and at every turn is foxier and more cunning than one could ever believe. Normal does not apply. I wonder what the women before me went through and know in my heart, they went through exactly what I am going through. I can’t wait to get rid of his last name legally.

He threw away his life and I need to be punished for that. I wasn’t supposed to find out. I was supposed to continue in the role I had played, the easily conned wife who kept knocking herself out trying to make her marriage work, while he kept his options open and explored for greener fields.

PS: Job in Florida lasted four months, then they let him go. I have no doubt he is trolling for his next food source as I write.

The Price of My Soul

  • To return to Easter, 1956 when my parents moved.
  • To have all of the knowledge that I have now and have had in the past.
  • To be popular with both boys and girls.  At school, in clubs and all other parts of my life.
  • To excel in sports without injury, particular in hockey, track, football and baseball.  To be good enough in football, baseball and track to attract quality athletic scholarships.
  • To excel in school without undue effort.  To receive the highest marks in every subject, to effortlessly complete all homework and assignments.  To receive the highest possible marks on all tests and examinations.  To be the valedictorian in both High School, University.  To be first in my class in Graduate School.
  • To have the inherent ability to make the right and correct choices regarding education, finance, investments and career.
  • To be attractive, fit and athletic for my entire life.  To live well in to my 90s and to be happy, contented and satisfied with my life.  To die with no regrets.
  • To never smoke or partake of non-prescription drugs.  To always drink alcohol responsibly and never get drunk or impaired.
  • To never have an illness and to be immune from all disease.
  • To be hardworking, focused and disciplined.  To be courteous to everyone.  To be calm, soft-spoken and fair.  To have, and experience, no prejudice.
  • To be unusually attractive to all women, of legal age, regardless of age, race, color, marital status or religious beliefs.  To have the inherent ability to communicate my interest to a particular woman and to have her feel a tingle in her loins and know that, by overtly contacting me, she will experience the most satisfying sexual encounter that is it possible to have.
  • To have the inherent ability to bring women to the deepest orgasm possible at my whim and thought.  To do so, if I wish, just by touch, by stroking, or by any other means that I wish.  To have women become addicted to sexual relations with me.  To be completely uninhibited in sex and to have each of my partners wish to be willing to try anything.  To be able to bring my partners to orgasm orally, anally, vaginally and any other way I choose.  To have them long for each way.  To be able to bring women to multiple orgasms, including ejaculation, and to be able to experience multiple ejaculations, myself, within minutes of each other.  To never lose this ability until my death.
  • To never, either myself or a chosen sexual partner, experience a jealous husband, fiancé, lover or friend.  To never end a sexual relationship in any way other than as enduring friends.
  • To have women become so addicted to my sexual prowess and their satisfaction that they will do anything that I wish to continue the relationship.  To have them recommend me to their women friends and to have those friends join us in the relationship.
  • To have this attraction begin from the moment of puberty and, until I am of legal age, to have these relationships with women older than myself.
  • To have these women pay me for my company until I have graduated from school and have become a wealthy person.  It would be my expectation that, beginning at 13 years of age, I would earn $100 per week from each of my lovers and that I would have five lovers.  I would expect my income to increase with each year until legal age.
  • To have the inherent ability to save my money and to invest in the most profitable manner.  To always know the correct time to buy stocks, bonds or other investments and to always know when to sell at the maximum profit.  To never make a losing investment.
  • To always know the correct time to create a new company or service and to always know the correct time to sell the investment.  To never lose money in this manner.  To always have prior knowledge of startup companies and to know which ones will succeed and which ones will fail.  To always know the optimum time to cash in the investment.
  • To be financially well of by the age of 18.  To be a millionaire by the age of 20.  To be a multi-millionaire by the age of 25. To be a billionaire by the age of 30 and to be the richest man in the world by the age of 40.  To remain so until my death.
  • To be asked to mingle in the highest levels of society all over the world.  To be politically astute and to have political influence worldwide.
  • To never marry and to never have children.  To die, peacefully and happy, having left a legacy of both deeds and money that will be invested for good.  To have planned those investments so that they will never stop working for good.
  • To have several loving relationships during my lifetime.  To love deeply and be loved deeply.  One of those relationships is to be with Marsha Jackson and the other with Susan Morris.  Both are to be deeply satisfying for everyone involved but are not to be monogamous on my part.  As in other relationships, they will be so satisfied that they will want to share me with their female family members and friends.
  • To be an outstandingly accomplished dancer.  To be able to bring a women to climax just by whispering in her ear while dancing.  To be able to engage in a conversation, with a woman, about absolutely anything.  To have her feel no offense at the most intimate of conversations and comments. To be able to bring her to climax during those conversations.
  • To be appreciative and knowledgeable of the arts. To be an engaging and interesting speaker.  To have an inherent ability to lead people in the direction I choose for them to go.  To always do so for good, never evil.
  • To be truly satisfied and happy in everything that I do.  Especially in each and every sexual relationship that I have.  To be able to give the deepest possible pleasure to my partner and, in turn, to receive the same.

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teacher123

It sounds like this is the guy from the Dos Equis commercials- the most interesting man in the world. I read this on a t-shirt today and wanted to share it as I think it applies also to this situation. It is better to have loved and lost than to stay with the psycho for the rest of my life.
I am sorry that you had to have so much invested in him before finding out the whole truth. But your life will be so much better now as when you thought it was when he was away from you for that time of finding out about him and yourself. God bless you on your recovery. Be good to yourself.

bulletproof

Jenna

This ‘manifesto’ is familiar to me, it is the same psychological ‘vibe’ of the P that darkened my door…especially the sense of entitlement to women and being sexually available for all women..(as if they don’t have brains , only desire for HIM)
I always stated from day one that I was looking for a monogamous relationship and if he didn’t agree with that then there was no point, because another woman would be the deal breaker. He swore I was the only one he needed blah blah but I could sense his disppointment as time went on…and I could nearly feel his sexual antennae going up out for more…he mentioned “swinging” when sex got boring (because he is unable to penetrate anything deeper than the skin, being so shallow that’s where he is stuck) this would be a great way to revive it…I said the only swinging I’ll be doing is you out that door… he was a sexual predator in mind and body, pretending to be wholesome and true to me…

I am very disturbed by that document as it is without heart. There is NO HEART in it, there is no tenderness, empathy, sense of humour…Nothing that would signify a human being. I would describe it as depressing, boring, deeply disturbing.

I’m so sorry he got to hurt you so bad, He sounds like a true monster…but do not do time for him. Thank God you got away, he sounds like one who could kill if things blocked his way….he has all his ‘perfect plans’ laid out like soldiers all in a line…thing is , it won’t go to plan and that is when he will get dangerous. I wish you protection, blessings and freedom from this evil. You will be angry, there is no escape….but feel the feelings, don’t look back…he is a creepy man with an evil outlook..God bless those who fall into his net.

Frank Lee Speaking

Reading down that list is beyond disturbing. Talk about a blueprint to the sociopathic soul. I actually felt unclean by the final bullet point as if I had just read the manifesto of a demonic soul.

What a dangerous world we live in.

Ox Drover

Personally, I think his “wishes” are a bit grandiose, even for a psychopath! Pretty much magical thinking like believing in the LOL Just not gonna happen.

I will give him an A+ for narcissistic self opinion though. Does kinda make you want to puke though.

Frank Lee Speaking

Fantastic article on sociopath speech.

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:ypNZre2G_VAJ:web.jjay.cuny.edu/~jpr/psychopath.pdf+sociopaths+speech+pattern+site:.edu&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESh-zdW4QqcOW1a5qV56KEJX2aDBORL9a1cu2eGEYwmZuLJJhcUh05oo1vpTvYrMTapdLmiMXAMuDRWAU_eMIe50Dvnb7Kqwgh4NJQ684rDvyoFvlwNjQVMxe82U8ToLImJjotQ0&sig=AHIEtbQxJ4GvszyCOtbtC14iupn4CyD5xw

ErinBrock

I’m having computer problems…..that’s what you get when you restart!
I’m off tonight….until I get fixed.

Buttons

Jenna, thank you for sharing your experiences so candidly and openly. I hope that you are well on your healing path and can consider yourself lucky to have gotten out with your soul intact. God bless you during these incredibly stressful times.

Brightest blessings.

bluejay

Jenna,

I’m sorry that you endured all that you did with the spath. All I can hope is that you have brighter days ahead, definitely deserving them. God bless you.

one/joy_step_at_a_time

EB – sounds like you are off to have your ‘lady parts’ removed.

super chic

Jenna, thank you for sharing your story,
I am so sorry this happened to you.
You are so right about the power and control,
and the withholding what you want.
The list is horrible, how can he
even think he has a soul?

Wini

Shabby, the only souls “they” have are the soles on the bottom of their feet as they scurry off down the road to pounce on their next victim(s) …

Piece of cake, piece of huckleberry pie!

Dani S

Jenna- Thank you for sharing your story and sharing the document! WOW! I guess he has let himself down tremendously with this wish list!LOL

Your husband was similar to my husband in so many ways! Thankfully you are now almost free from that twisted mind!

Interestingly mine always slept on the couch too after the honeymoon wooing period, and always with the TV going all night! His sleep was always disturbed and I believe he was tired all the time from all the plotting, sneeking & scamming he would be doing at all hours!

Mine also couldn’t hold down jobs and although he told me he wanted to have one relationship his parents could be proud of him for, I know in my heart that there is no way he was loyal to me. Why would I really be different from any other partner that he cheated on? I believe he had just got better at hiding it! Even if he was faithful to me, I know he would have not wanted to be. The only thing he was committed to was himself.

I loved the document you shared, a true insight into their minds!

I am glad you didn’t loose everything to him and you have fought him all the way until the end!

Stay strong, your life now is so much better already!

bulletproof

Dani S
Hi there! Yesss!! the TV (that I bought) he would leave on all night and fall asleep in the final stages of the relationshit…so I would come into the room and see him fast asleep in the dark, TV blaring…and I thought to myself, how could someone CHANGE so extremely from doting partner to this. When I’d confront him about it, he would just stare at me, message was do not piss me off or else….he also wanted to show me off to his parents, that he used and exploited…being in a relationship “looked good”and won him brownie points with his parents. They are like very large children crossed with the devil. Another thing he did in the final stages was play heavy metal music loud to shut me out. The lyrics in these songs gave me chills and he liked that. ..he could see my reaction…one song he strategically played and it was about f….ing ‘your daughter’….I have no doubt he would have f…d my mother, my grandmother,my best friend…. the family pet…nothing would surprise me anymore, I would’nt touch him with a barge pole unless it was a wooden one and I would drive it through his heart in self defense.

bulletproof

Frank Lee Speaking

Thanks for the link…really good stuff

bluejay

Jenna,

When I read your story, I was saddened and p.o.’d that this man so callously disregarded all the hardships and pain He caused. That’s definitely a trait of these people. I struggle with anger every day (pretty much) over all the rubbish that my h-spath has caused me, finding this whole disorder incomprehensible. I’m just sorry that you were targeted, paying a huge price just for knowing him.

Dani S

Hey Bullet Proof, you will have to find somewhere else to drive that stake into because they don’t have heart! I’m thinking of a really good place right night where to stick it! lol

Mine used to put the sound track to the soprano’s on really loud in his car as he drove up our long drive way home! bahahaha I think he thought he was a gangster or something! Although I wouldn’t trust him and am sure he fantasised about murder and control almost daily!

Bluejay they really are incomprehensible! I still don’t get it and reading Jenna’s doc of her spath really drove home, how sickening and delusional they are. They make me so angry!

Bullet you are so very right, they are like a little demented child, desperately trying to play grown ups but fail miserably and tantrum every time they fail or have been caught out! Mine loved to do the silent treatment ! It is great now I permanently silenced him by walking away, or was that running way! lol

Dani S

Bullet proof- Of course you bought the TV lol and no doubt paid the electricity and paid for the comfy couch he laid his miserable,body on lol….grrrrrrr! Has anyone located that Island for them yet? 😉

Dani S

ooo so excited, just came across Love Fraud on Face Book. l love the amount of work and support Donna has put into reaching out to so many people effected by the spath’s.

Donna you deserve the launch of your book to be a sensational success!!! This has been such a powerful tool in my recovery and words cannot express my gratitude and also to the bloggers, that have been the voice of reason, understanding & support…. 🙂

HeatherA

Jenna,
My deepest empathy to you. Thank you so much for including his document, it’s good to know their writing style. Like others have mentioned about his list, there is no depth, no soul, no love. That also disturbed me about my former psychopath, there was no inner life, or if there was, it was very dim, therefore, we had no real intimacy.

Two things struck me about your story. One is that they use good human traits, things that make life enjoyable and worth living, like kindness and love, and use our good qualities to hurt us. It’s intolerably cruel. The other is your term ‘reverse serial rapist.’ You are so right on. Rapists and psychopaths who use sex to get what they want are two sides of the same coin. We consented to sex, but with men and women who don’t actually exist.

Also, please know that you did not do anything wrong. I hope all goes well with your divorce.
Heather

survivorlady

My gosh, I always marvel at the fact that these vampires are all the same. Different faces and places but the same, no soul, cruel, without compassion, and they know it. They defy the law, and anything that is sincere and compassionate, and they smirk with a twisted smile.
I was married to one for 18 years, he deserves an academy award for the best leading actor. He was smooth, charming, knew how to cover up his tracks. I know I was the best thing that ever happened to him. I was a good wife, mother, and took care of my kids and him with the utmost dedication and love. He knew that my life revolved around my family and friends and used them all as leverage. Red flags through the years, but I did not see them clearly. I often thought I was seeing things and second guessing myself, how could I doubt this adoring and kind man, who showered me with gifts and compliments ? Everytime I asked for something, he would perform his song and dance and tell me how the kids would enjoy something else better…blah, blah, blah. It worked. One and half years ago. I was tired of not “connecting” its like a new me took over…enough. I told him a few things that I really wanted and no if ands or buts. His face turned into another persons. I literally saw a different look, his eyes were cold..cold…cold..it sent a shiver through my spine. I was done, although I did not know it right then and there. He was never the same again. Cold cold, disrepected me, silent, never home. I thought I was going crazy. I cried day and night, did not know what was going on. He started to punch holes in walls, scream at me, inches away from my face. Horrible. He was working with my kids in trying to entice them to live with him. Told the kids (12 and 16 at the time) that I was going crazy, thats why I was crying all the time. They wer confused, not knowing what was gong on. Their Dad must be right. I knew he was up to no good. Left it alone, and let him do his thing. Told my family. They were surpirsed, how could this man be the same husband ? Its a good thing I was a good person and credible throughout my life. ONe day he hit me, and my kids saw it. That is what changed everything for them. They instantly knew he was not the same man. He left and never came back, tried to get a hold of the kids but they hung up on him. He finally realized that he was done, discarded me and the kids, has not contacted them since. He already had another women ready, she had 4 kids, and they are his also. My God, these people are monsters. I will never be the same again. My kids are fine, I am focused on making their life good. My daughter is in University, my son is in High School and both love me and respect me. We are a good team, and I thank God every day for the chance tolive again. My kids were spared in the battle, his leaving on his own accord was the best thing. He was a monster disguised as a good husband and father. What a performance. Now we are getting divorced and it is quite the battle. At this point I do not care, what is money compared to regaining my life and my kids life. My daughters ambition is to become a physiocologist, and to really work with personality disorders. I think she will be very good. Take care Jenna, keep thinking that its all past now, the future is so easy compared to what we have endured and seen. Talking about been taken up to a spaceship with aliens….no one really believes us unless they have been throught it. Love to all

Ox Drover

Dear Survivorlady,

Yep, tell them you were taken up in a space ship by aliens, they will believe you, tell them your X is a psychopath, NOPE tooooo far out to believe! LOL That would be funny if it weren’t so true!

You ARE fortunate that your X abandoned you and the kids, doesn’t mean he won’t be BACK though, so keep your eyes peeled for the smear campaign or some kind of “pay back” for whatever he is going to accuse you of. Don’t live in terror, but just keep your eyes peeled and be cautious. They seem to be like the bad penny and keep turning up!

4 kids by the OW? WOW, they do procreate don’t they? I’m glad that you had enough credibility to at least keep your family believing you. That punch was at least worth something after all, too, if it showed him up to your kids.

I’m glad that you are focusing on making a new life for yourself and your kids! God bless!

Maryjane

They are all so similar.. it’s amazing and the magical thinking is a key element..

http://www.womenexplode.com

Ox Drover

I’m not sure which is worse, them thinking they are God or us thinking we can fix them, that all they need is some love and understanding! Where is the puke emoticon when you need it the most? ! LOL

survivorlady

Hi OxDrover,
Yes they do procreate….he also had 4 kids with the previous wife before me….so in total 10 kids. When he was married to me, I made sure he paid his child support, it was the right thing to do. He knew I was very adamant about it, because after 1 year into my marriage I found out he had defaulted by 18,000.00, made him phone his first wife and beg forgivness. He did very reluctantly and he knew he had to, because he was not ready to leave he had no money and new to the city therefore no other “supply”. His first wife forgave the loan on the condition he pay on time each month. And I made sure he did. Now when I look back, she was a good lady. poor women must have gone through hell. So now its my turn, and I hope the women he is with makes him pay on my behalf (fat chance). She has her own 4 kids to contend with. The postive thing is that I know EXAACTLY what to expect from him, I seen the behavior with his first wife…they are pretty consistent with their behavior. He has never been to any of his kids graduations or weddings, my daughter has just graduated and he was not interested in even sending her a card. But the best of all is that he is telling his first family that it was i who made him not contact any of them all these years, I was the wicked witch of the west. And they believe him. So my kids want nothing to do with their siblings because they are so gullible, then again, those kids never saw their father as a grown up like my kids. All those poor kids knew is that they got up one morning and he was gone. Their mother never spoke ill of him, so they would not be more heartbroken. These people do procreate and it makes them feel powerful and full of knowledge. I was hoping that my marriage to him was actually void, that he was a bigamist, but no, he actually was divorced from his first wife, too bad, it would have been a bogus like he was.
Evil, evil, evil, thats all they are.

Ox Drover

Dear Survivorlady,

10 Kids, whoopie!!!!! I guess it must make them feel powerful or something! LOL I guess that is like how frogs procreate, lay lots of eggs, not take care of any of them, and hope that some survive. The more eggs you lay the better chance you have of passing on your genetic material.

Of course not all of his kids will turn out to be psychopaths like him, aren’t we GLAD!!!! My sperm donor had 1 out of 4 of us that did, and at least one grandchild that is a Psychopath. Not sure about my half-sibs’ 3 biological children. my P son is in prison and hopefully won’t have any kids, and my other bio-child has decided NOT to have any kids considering just how much of the P-genetic material we have on both sides. I agree with his decision.

Well, hope the first wife and those kiids turn out okay, and even though he is smearing you to her, you did the right thing and even if she doesn’t know it, God and you do so that is what counts. Sorry he wasn’t a bigamist! LOL ROTFLMAO Oh, well, you win a few, you lose a few! LOL Silvermoon might ought to be glad hers was a bigamist! LOL I think she had more legal trouble getting “rid” of him legally though than even a divorce.

DancingWarrior

HELP w/ LEGAL stuff please? EB, Matt, if you’re around…
or anyone with divorce/legal experience.

I have to respond to production request by 7/22. Got his L’s letter and some copies of financial docs (not enough at a glance). His L’s letter is very nasty, exaggerated, claiming he gave me more $ during separation than required by cs guidelines, and to cease immediately any improvements w/o consulting him, and that he wants access to the house to retrieve some “effects” asap, overall a very aggressive nasty accusatory tone, even depracating of my ability to “know my finances by now” and that she’s been waiting for my docs. in vain all this time (when she’s just requested them at last court hearing on 6/23 and deadline is 7/22. What a b**yatch!!

I am waiting to get report from fin. planner still. Don’t know HOW best to respond to the lies and attacks.

I paid 17K of joint cc debt with any extra $ he gave since we separated, but this was 2 yrs ago and don’t have access to my bank accts. that far back, just one year.

I paid joint car/house insurance, or child camps, or cutting trees and such with any “extra” $ he gave me, and also the mediator I engaged last summer when he wouldn’t cooperate re. c.s.

How do I ask my lawyer to respond to these aggressive and unfounded attacks? And H sends a “spreadsheet” of all the money he gave me, adds it up, to prove that it’s way more than mandated c.s. guidelines. I think the c.s. guidelines are bogus too bec. they calculated the amount based on a DRAFT affidavit from LAST year when we consulted the mediator. I haven’t prepared the final affid. yet, the fin. planner is working on it now and I have till 7/22. So I think the c.s. amount may be too low.

How do I use my L’s time most efficiently so I don’t get bogged down in he said she said re. the horrible exaggeration and lies he presents IN WRITING in his lawyer’s letter so it’s on record as if I am the unreasonable one who is asking for too much.

Please send any experience/advice you have re. best response and how my L can best argue for me.

Thanks.

Ox Drover

Dear Warrior: I’m not EB or Matt, I think EB’s computer is flakey, and not sure where Matt is, but as dealing with ANY P on ANY subject, keep in time, they are the LIE! Every time they open their mouths they are lying.

FIRST: BREATHE, do NOT panic! Keeping the waters muddied, and making as much chaos as possible is the purpose of this CARP!

Second: Get in touch with your bank about the previous year’s statements, you can get them though it might take a few bucks and a little time standing in line telling the manager you NEED those now.

Third: Breathe again!

Just because HE CLAIMS SOMETHING DOESN’T MAKE IT TRUE!

NASTY TONE is an attempt to rattle your chains…..IGNORE IT.

BREATHE again!

Of course he tries to make you out as unreasonable—that’s what Psychopaths do. Don’t expect him to tell the truth or be reasonable.

BREATHE again! Now put your arms around yourself and HUG yourself and say “this is going to be okay!” (now make yourself believe that !) I know it is frustrating to deal with these jark offs but again that is what they do, keep us reeling and off balance, so just keep on breathing, and go for a nice walk and burn off some of those stress hormones!

If they can keep us concerned about the minor things, or reeling to try to prove what they say is a lie, then they gain strength and we go CRAZY—this is GASLIGHTING AND CRAZY-MAKING at its best! Just like a slight of hand artist, they make you look at the left hand by waving it around, while they pull the trick with the right hand. They are good at it too.

Hang on (this always seems to happen on a weekend or friday afternoon so we have all weekend to stew! LOL (((((Hugs))))) and I will keep you in my prayers!

DancingWarrior

Oxy,

It is hard not to get rattled. Let me quote his L’s words:

“I have requested a fin affidavit to no avail. The parties have been separated since May ’08. She should understand her finances by this time I assume. My client mad a reasonable proposal to split the equity equally despite the contributuion made by his father. He has been paying support and other expenses since the parteis separated. It is my opinion that your client is not negotiating fairly, or in an uneducated manner. If your client desires a trial, then let us cut to the chase and proceed accordingly bec. my client has a strong case”

And I am upset because MY LAWYER does not go on the offense the way his does, and I don’t know if her BARK and LOUD threats about the trial that I have not even mentioned, it is still over a month before the PRE-trial–I just don’t get this person’s obnoxious insinuations. Her client has a strong case? How is that? I don’t get why my lawyer seems to be just sitting back while this woman goes on the OFFENSIVE?

Maybe it’s premature, and there is nothing for him to “fight” about yet. I just hate being in the dark about what will happen, what may happen, what the plan or strategy is.

thank you Oxy. I will TRY to breathe. It’s overwhelming just sorting through docs. and knowing what the hell they mean. And I need to respond by Thursday. Feel unprepared.

Ox Drover

Dear Warrior,

I know sweetie, that is the THREAT of “go to trial” and all that CARP.

When the plane my husband was in crashed in the neighbor’s field (the owner, a student of my husband’s caused the crash) because my husband was “pilot in command” the guy sued me for $50K for his “emotional pain and suffering and damages” LOL When the deposition was over in which my attorney made his guy look like the greedy money grubbing creep that he was, his attorney wrote and said “My client though I know he would receive all he is asking for in court is willing to SETTLE for $15K so let’s just get this out of the way.”

My attorney did write his attorney back and say” there’s not a jury in the USofA that would give you client a DIME so let’s just go to court if you think you have a case!” They settled for ZERO $ and the neighbors about rode the guy out of town on a rail with tar and feathers!

So calm down and BREATHE! Worrying about WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN is futile “so quit it RAT NOW!!!!!” I know wht you mean though, it is so frustrating because there is NO NEED for all this CARP!

I would get with your attorney on Monday and ask him/her/it what is going on–calmly! It isn’t about justice, mom, apple pie, or the American way it is about making the most noise! (((hugs)))) have a better weekend and do something nice for yourself. Chin up!!!!

ErinBrock

WARRIOR:
STOP!!!!!
It’s all the pre dance….and none of it matters…..WHY ARE YOU reading into these letters from the L? THey are designed to posture and upset you…..STOP!
Don’t get sidetracked by this shiat!
Every attorney says they have a great case…..
Don’t let this scare you.
Carry on….doing what your doing….preparing the financial docs and submit them by the ordered time. PERIOD!

If there is no legal separation….then he wasn’t supporting you/kid and that money makes NOT a difference ONE IODA!…..he was contributing out of personal obligation….

VERY few divorces go to a trial….the judge forces you to settle, one way or another….and judge will keep you in that courtroom until your sick of paying your attorneys and you wear down.
This is why you need to know what you want/need vs what you’ll settle for BEFORE you go to the conference hearings.

Don’t give him anything ‘effect’ wise, until your FINAL! Or a judge orders this…..
I assume since he’s been gone over 2 years, he’s got his toiletries and clothing……so nothing else is urgent. Another ploy….POSESSION is 9/10ths of the law….and one move i’m glad I stood ground on…..
It wasn’t that I wanted everything necessarily, I just knew that If it wasn’t in my posession…..I didn’t have the upper hand…..if he wants it …>HE can ask for it….and he can make arrangements to collect it…..through the judge.
Give him another thing to keep on his mind. (It’s a backspath move).

Your bank has the statements……ORDER THEM NOW!

Just because an attorney writes a letter, doesn’t mean a judge will see it….so who cares what she writes or claims…….it’s the way they work.
If she writes a letter, she gets paid! It’s only revenue producing and to create an adversarial divorce to keep it going so SHE keeps the money rolling in.

Your freaking out…..DON”T ….StoP, just keep carrying on in the direction you were going in……and BE STRONG !!!! Be a WARRIOR that you are!!!

Ox Drover

Damn EB! you are starting to sound as mean as me!!!! Show a little compassion on Warriior for goodness sakes! LOL You are right though, I must admit that! (((hugs)))) Good advice!

ErinBrock

Oh, sorry….I didn’t mean it in a mean way……you know I am very direct and to the point…..
She can’t crumble now…..and this is the point in the divorce you need to ‘man up’…..and develop thick skin…..
or as I call it….my ‘fack you’ attitude!

There is no room for pussy’s in a pack of dogs.

BULL DOZE forward and separate the emotions OUT!

The ‘grieving’ can come later.

silvermoon

Dancing,

You need to get out of the perennial victim mode. You can’t react to everything like the sky is falling. You just can’t. He is playing you because I bet this is what you always have done. .

You need to know your legal position vis a vie your court from your lawyer. And you need to get the records and the statements done in time.

You have to get your wits together. We are all trying to be supportive and we need you to do your part. Breathe deep. Find your confidence and manage your attorney.

Get a second opinion on his work, but get through getting the detail you need. Detail wins in court. A forensic accountant would be a swell idea for a professional report and analysis.

Your soon to be ex husband is a piece of work. The sooner we get you through this the better.

Now Breathe, focus and get going. Eat raw red meat if you have to but get your mama bear working.

EB gave you some fantastic advice.

You are being played and every time he does, you react the same way. You have to change you to change the outcome.

ErinBrock

Great points Silver…..

Victims NEVER ‘win’ in court…..especially in a divorce….
The courts tend to victimize victims further…..because they can’t please you anyways….
It’s the old addage…no one wins in a divorce…..

Well…..I will tell you…..if your STRONGER than the opposition…..you have a MUCH better chance to shine.

The spath played a victim the whole process…..I WAS THE VICTIM….but he played it…..well, I stood up and never played the ‘victim’ card….and showed I was a survivor…..and I think naturally….peeps can have respect for taht.

I NEVER brought up my cancer or strokes…..but spath did…..(I had every right to play the cancer card, but felt it wouldn’t serve me) So what….she’s got cancer….NEXT…..
I wanted the judge to see me as a hellova survivor, not mentioning my hardships….because the reality is…..we all got hardships…..so what! Look at this woman….look at this man……she put up with him and all this documented wrongful behavior (financial, cancelling health ins, kidnapping kids etc…) type behaviors…..and i’m gonna give her the ‘legup’.
THATS what you want……the leg up by documented behaviors…..not gee judge….i’m a victim. Everyones a victim…there a dime a dozen….each case….BE THE SURVIVOR!!!!!

Look at where it got spath……

bluejay

survivorlady,

My h-spath did a complete change-of-face too, in the beginning being a seemingly kind, considerate person, treating me nicely, then over the years, he showed himself, the mask came off. There were red flags along the way, but, I didn’t know what was happening, never imaging that my husband could be a sociopath – too far out for me. However, I had to find out what I was dealing with, so I explored his behaviors and voila, I discovered the awful truth, my husband fits the profile of a sociopath. Horrible truth. What you said about your ex-spath is similar to some of my experiences (toward the end, he punched a hole in a wall and a second time he did this, he broke his hand, no hole in the wall.). I just want you to know that I can relate to you. What these people put others through is insane.

Rosa

From Dancing Warrior’s 6:44 p.m. post:

“I have requested a fin affidavit to no avail. The parties have been separated since May ’08. She should understand her finances by this time I assume. My client mad a reasonable proposal to split the equity equally despite the contributuion made by his father. He has been paying support and other expenses since the parteis separated. It is my opinion that your client is not negotiating fairly, or in an uneducated manner. If your client desires a trial, then let us cut to the chase and proceed accordingly bec. my client has a strong case”

Where I come from, this would get translated into:

“Either shit or get off the pot.”

That’s the way I interpret the lawyer’s language in Dancing Warrior’s post.

I’ve said it before, Dancing Warrior.
I sense that you are VERY uncertain about what you are doing.
I think your husband and his lawyer are sensing the same thing.

What you are going to do is completely up to you.
I really feel for you, because the husband and lawyer seem to be turning up the pressure.
You are in a really tough spot.

Ox Drover

EB, I was pretty TON GE IN CHEEK on saying how “mean” you are! Sugar, you aren’t half the skillet swinging biddy that I am but I’m trying to TRAIN YOU! LOL ROTFLMAO

She’s right though, Warrior, you got to get mad like a mama badger backed into a hole, and come out fighting! Don’t let him make you crazy—and he will if you try to make SENSE OUT OF WHAT THEY DO AND SAY!!!! That’s the thing, you can’t make sense out of any of it, because it is S-PATH-SPEAK which is BULL CHIT ON A CRACKER!

You are between the devil and the deep blue sea. So get your BIG GIRL PANTIES ON and put your KICK ARSE BOOTS ON, and I’ll loan you my jack-ass riding feather hat and a cast iron skillet, so get on my Fat Ass and RIDE THAT PSYCHOPATH DOWN! (In case you don’t know. Fat’s my donkey’s name, his brother is Hairy!) LOL ROTFLMAO

Rah, Rah Rah, shish boom baa. Kick him in the knee, rolll him in the grass
then kick him in the ….other knee. GOOOO HOME TEAM!!!!!!!

hens

off topic but has anyone seen that geico commercial with honest abe lincoln? Is that oxy askin if her ass looks big?

Ox Drover

Henry!!!!!!!!! HEEEEEN—RY!!!!!!! BOINK! YOU BAAAAAD ARSE BOY!!!!! Thank you for noticing!!!! I’m gonna saddle up the Fat Ass and come get you feller! Bringing the BIG skillet!

Oh, did I have some killllller watermelon tonight! Got it off a road side stand yesterday and boy was it SWEET!!!!! I bout made myself sick I ate so much. But fortunately not toooo many calories in Watermelon, but I will be getting up frequently tonight I guess! LOL It isn’t summer til Oxy makes her self sick eating too much watermelon at least once, and then corn on the cob at least once…..ah, the joys of childhood remembered!

The heat index in Little Rock at 10:30pm was 97 degrees! This morning it was 78 degrees and 98% humidity! Sheesh! can’t even count that high! This I will hope to live long enough to FORGET, it is NOT one of the “joys” of childhood, or old age or anything else, it is MISERY!

ErinBrock

That’s alright Oxy…..I took my beating.
🙂

hens

lmaorotf – I had a good cantalope the other day…water melon sounds real good tho…I used to sell watermelons on the side of the road with my dad and uncle – i think they were one dollar for the biggest – oh I remeber those black diamond melons i can smell em now – no i dont remember it being hot like this when i was a kid…

Ox Drover

It wasn’t this HUMID when we were kids, just dry heat up here in the hills.

One year my grandpa planted 3 acres of melons and the mice ate the seed, so he replanted and they came off late, at the time they came off they were a penny a pound, so he didn’t even pick them up or bring them to the house.

I would go out every morning when it was cool, and break a big melon and eat the cool heart out of it, and I GRAZED my way through three acres of melons before he turned the hogs in to eat them. Ahhhhh that was HEAVEN on earth!

Stone mountain was the “brand” of melons back then, but I like the Black Diamonds too. And the peaches n’ creame sweet corn. I used to graze my way through his field corn too, till he figured out it was me and not the coons getting the green ears! I was smart enough to make it look like it was coons doing it but he finally caught me! LOL Got away with it for a couple of years. I like sweet corn or even field corn that is young green and raw. Throw the shucks to the donks and they will BRAYYYYYYY for you

ErinBrock

what are we haven a picni9c over here?

hens

nah me and ox are remembering the ice age back when we were kids

DancingWarrior

No, EB wasn’t too rough. Thank you all.

My lack of confidence and confusion stems from lack of guidance from my lawyer. He sends a letter, here is his lawyer’s stuff, tell me when you’ve reviewed it.

I will give docs to his lawyer by 22nd. If my fin planner isn’t ready with report, I’ll tell my lawyer she needs more time and why, esp. if she needs more info from him.

I asked for an appt for a 2nd opinion with R. the baracuda lawyer. I HOPE I can see him Tue/WEd and hear his advice. I’ll switch on the spot if I can be clear of how he’d attack bec. with current lawyer it’s clear as mud.

H’s lawyer used a veiled threat in interrogatory that I he’ll use “witnesses” regarding my nonexistent affairs. It’s a no fault state anyhow, but my lawyer said that he CAN bring up things like this, and he DID respond to the accusation to the family masters and mentioned H’s abuse that I tolerated a long time.

I wonder if my lawyer (esp. the baracuda one) CANd and SHOULD go for the jugular in asserting greater fault in H based on my report of emotional and mental abuse? I have journals with records of his behaviors, but no police report. Once he locked me out of the house with small child in the car and I brought back cop so he’d let me in. Thre is no record at police bec. it’s too long ago. Another time he broke down door jamb to come in my BR and pressed me against wall holding me by the neck, but I have no proof or witnesses, thoug it might be in my journal. CAN I use these against him? In interrogatory he answered a question, “I never touched DW in anger.” He did not hit me, but he did grab me by the neck that time, drove maniacally in the car many times, punched holes in walls and dented furniture, and broke a door out of the wall. In a no fault state, I wonder if these are a waste of time?

Yes, my first reaction is to fall for his intimidation each time. I didn’t react by writing to my lawyer, or by writing to my husband. I DO know that my fin. planner is working to come up with a documented fact based report about how to divide assets, what I want and need, and why based on real figures.

I think I have to switch lawyers bec. this one give me no confidence and no guidance and definitely does not go for the jugular or let on that he can and will.

Thank you very much for the push, bop on the head, and pep talk. Please stick with me in the next week, I’ll report developments with fin planner and hopefully 2nd lawyer’s advice.

THANK YOU!!

Wini

Oxy, I enjoyed reading about your childhood memories … running through your grandfather’s fields. I believe if we focus on the fond memories in our life, tuck the bad ones way to the back of our minds, the fond ones flourish to the surface … ensuring we stay happy, content and mellow as we age.

It’s our choice how we want to live. I opt for happy, content and mellow.

Thanks for sharing your memories with us.

ErinBrock

Warrior…..we are here….and ain’t going nowhere.
I would stick to financial facts only.
Let him be the muddy water mud slinger….if he can’t prove anything……well who looks like the ass?

If your gut says to switch….then switch!
It will delay your case by several months to give him time to prepare…but hey….you’ve come this far huh…….

In my case….switching was a KEY move for me. But each case and person is different with different circumstances involved. Only YOU can decide that……but now is the time to make all decisions and stick with em.

If your fiinancial person can’t get the records done….HAVE HER submit a letter……
Not you.

Sure, anyone can bring up anything……I know in my state…..(com. prop state) lawyers won’t do it unless it makes a difference…..because it makes them out to be hounds….and scoundrals….they dont’ want that sort of rep with the judges…..they want to be respected and given the benefit of the doubt when needded for their client….that they are doing all they can to ‘move’ the cse along.

YOU know all the facts in your case….don’t ‘think’…..act….(on your instincts).

My attorney sent me docs to review THEN we’d discuss. She’d advise and I’d either agree or not….and we’d make a decision on proceeding forward. I was very intent on certain things……like a deposition….not so much for the divorce….BUT for the cleanup later….GREAT MOVE…and she never questioned me…..I paid her, she did it. It wasn’t underhanded or nasty….it was just a deposition of which she asked the 14 pages of questions I wanted ‘memorialized’ under oath….along with her questions. It was a succes.

YOU need to be clear with any attorney….ask him ….how does he communicate with his cleints…..insist on email communication…because it’s documented….and quick. Insist on meeting a few times to ensure your on the same page….but not neceeary too often….if your emailing inbetween. Ask him his procedure of returning phone calls…..and be clear on this.
Ask him how he proceeds through this divorce process….
and KEEP IT business!!!!
Make clear he understands what a cluster B personality disorder is……..and what he’s dealing with….
they don’t cooperate , lie when mouth open, and the rest is ‘
normal’ male behaviors during divorce…..hiding assets, quitting jobs, claims less than has…..etc….all the things attorneys see day in day out….but each man thinks he’s paving new ground.
Ask him ‘how’ far will he go to protect you and child in this?

If your up and up with him……and don’t appear underhanded…..he’s gonna respect you and fight for ya.
tha’ts the goal!
They don’t want to be your physchologist…..they want to be your attorney.

You’ll do fine!

Buttons

DancingWarrior……..the responses to your current issues with the attorney and pre-trial bullshirt are spot-on, kiddo.

During the court proceedings with the ex spath, I had to develop a mantra, of sorts: lawyers are PAID to do these things. It’s nothing personal, Dancing, it’s business. These attorneys don’t have even a fleeting thought of you or the soon-to-be-ex-spath after billable hours. It’s BUSINESS. Once Court is over, all of these attorneys get together at the Lawyer Pub and drink together while they discuss particular aspects of their legalese and who did the better job.

The words and tone being used are simply to cause the opposing side to cave in, period. The sooner the attorney can clear the case, the quicker they can move on to the next paying client – plain and simple. For the spath survivors in these situations, it’s very easy for us to be triggered by the veiled threats, demands, and accusations. SAY YOUR MANTRA!!! “They are paid to do this, they are paid to do this, they are paid to do this…” and so on.

I had to force myself to accept this Truth, and whatever you have to do to “get it” about the culture of “Law,” DO IT. Practice deep breathing exercises to help yourself relax. Say the mantra until you believe it. Take a hot, soaking bath and read a good book while you’re soaking.

EB’s post, above, is spot-on, again. MAKE SURE that your attorney clearly understands Cluster B traits – in layman’s terms. Ask your attorney the “hard” questions that EB suggested – HOW FAR is the attorney willing to go to earn his/her fees? The attorney has the POWER to file motions, demand disclosure, and open the nastiest can of worms on your behalf. They are on YOUR payroll, Dancing, and it’s important that they know that YOU know this.

God bless you, Dancing – this legal dance is never simple, especially if a spath is involved. Come onto the blog and rant, rave, and vent your fears and vulnerabilities. Then, when it’s attorney-time or showtime in Court, put on your Big Girl Pants and prepare for battle. Throw off the gauntlets and let the dance begin!! Strength, courage, and fortitude – you have these attributes, or you’d still be with the spath!

TOWANDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brightest blessings to you!!!!

DancingWarrior

Hi EB,
Thank you. My Lwyr wrote me to “review and let’s discuss”. I’ve had the talk w/him about not being on the same page before masters hearing and he said he understood me.

“If your up and up with him—and don’t appear underhanded”..he’s gonna respect you and fight for ya.
tha’ts the goal!?

I just DON’T KNOW that he’s gonna fight for me when that hour comes. I don’t know if I’m jumping to conlusions that he won’t. I am not sure he BELIEVES that I am not underhanded. It looks like he believes the other lawyer, or H’s weird lying idiotic insinuations. I don’t think he cares at all about cluster B personality disorder, when he says, “Oh you told me, narcissistic personality…he says it like it’s something generic like a guy with a big ego, or someone who’s just a regular pain in the arse, but not a toxic, malicious, sneaky, lying, sociopath. He’ll even defend him and say, “Maybe he just doesn’t LIKE talking to lawyers. I don’t know him. I don’t know why he’d rather talk to you.” Arrgh, frustrating.

Rick told me last year if H. wanted to pick up something from house, I give him his “toothbrush” at the door and say goodbye, or I put his stuff in a box on the porch so rain doesn’t ruin it and tell him when to pick it up. He was THAT clear and simple. And I hadn’t even engaged him to represent me then. My lawyer has never talked to me that direct and reassuring about my legal rights, so I feel insecure about what may or may not happen, and anxious about my rights and protection.

Fin. planner said she’d have stuff for me Sunday.

Please tell me if my plan makes sense?

Plan A:
meet with MY lawyer, discuss plan including my fin. planner’s advice/report. Ask him HOW he’ll fight for me/protect my and child’s future. Ask him HOW he’ll deal with offensive attacks and distracting behaviors from other side.

Next week I HOPE, meet with lwyr Rick, too, show him fin. planner’s advice and ask his strategy. Feel in my gut and see in my head whose approach rings correct for me.

PLAN B:
If I strongly lean toward more clarity and confidence with Rick as I have in the past, ask him what he’ll need to prepare, how much needs to be done, and how much time it should take to finish.

I’ve already done a lot–fin. affidavit will be ready, proposal and response and masters recommendation have been made. Now it’s a matter of strategy to get an advntage in negotiation–I am NOT SURE if a deposition would make a difference or be necessary. We don’t have a lot of money. It seems clear what he has. I don’t think anymore that he is hiding assets.

If my lawyer has paved the way with many of the clerical things and preliminary process, and Rick could just go for the offensive better–that’s what I need to understand.

I am sure Rick will want to get my business and he will try to persuade me that he can and will repreent me better.

I couldn’t afford him at $375/hour. His consult is $300/hour, which is fine. I don’t know if he can safely predict the number of hours he’ll reasonably need to conclude the job. The case has been in court a whole year and I believe both sides lwrys are under pressure to move it to conclusion. Pretrial is end of August.

What about this–the fin. docs H sent seem incomplete. The interrogatory asked for three years’ bank statements. Cursorily looking, he gave only current statement for some, and maybe less than a year of credit card. Do I pay money to demand ALL of the documents? Why are they really necessary if I know his salary, his retirement, and the BIG PICTURE numbers are revealed in the taxes and soc. security earnings summary? If my fin. planner can work with what he gave, then I figure why do I have to worry–she knows more than I do. Right?

Hi Buttons,

Thanks, Yes they are paid to do this. I guess what pushes my buttons is that I read between the lines and see just the things my husband WOULD or DID say, and the kind of horrible ugly bickering he’d engage in. So it’s like he is guiding her hand in writing nasty letters. Maybe I read into it by projecting my own anger at the husband and magnify the aggessive tone in the letter.
I always liked the potted plant analogy–when in court and these actors are presnet–X2B and his lawyer–that I can stay inside my body, breathe, and have them in my periphery as potted plants that have no power to injure me. I also liked the image of a worm in a bubble with the mouth moving, but the sound coming out doesn’t matter and can’t do any harm. 🙂

amay61

I cried today. I haven’t done that for a long time.
I have been mostly NC for 1 yr now.
I have never gotten him out of my mind though.
The scientific article on our brain’s addiction helped.
I have waffled between believing and not believing he is an S.
You know, give him a chance….
It was the Price of my Soul Document that really hit home today. Wanting to be paid for his sex. – whoa baby!!!

Oxy and Henry – it was your spirit and grit that made me cry.
I love you guys so much. You have saved my life.

I just need to clear my head of him forever.

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