By | July 13, 2010 389 Comments

Why you still want your sociopathic partner

Lovefraud frequently hears from readers who have been discarded by sociopaths, but still feel like they’re in love with them, and can’t get them out of their minds. We frequently tell these readers that sociopathic relationships are very much like addictions.

Now, there’s proof. A recent study found that “the pain anguish of rejection by a romantic partner may be the result of activity in parts of the brain associated with motivation, reward and addiction cravings,” according to Science Daily.

Read Romantic rejection stimulates areas of brain involved with motivation, reward and addiction on

Link submitted by a Lovefraud reader.

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And if the addiction isn’t enough to shame us.. lets add the fact that it was never real on their part… for it was a covert plan to seek and destroy for their amusement…yet the brain still wants them….I believe that doubles up on the “anguish” part….

Ox Drover

Hi Southern man! Long time no “see”! Hope you are well and things going great for you! I hope your part of the south isn’t as hot and humid as mine is!

Though I have LITTLE confidence in the reliability of the fMRI due to some studies showing it is not real reliable, I don’t doubt this study as it is pretty easily seen that the behavior we feel is like an addiction. Hey, I’m about 9 months out of stopping smoking and off the nicotine replacement for about 2-3 months, and you know folks, you can “relatively easily”get drunks off booze but off nicotine? NO WAY! You can get folks off all kinds of drugs except NICOTINE! THAT STUFF IS TOUGH! Did you notice the article about that near the linked one? I sure did.

Getting un-addicted to the Psychopaths is difficult, but we are doing it so will just keep on truckin’ !!!


It’s amazing, after everything, how my ex-socio lurks in my mind like a huge black shadow. Still, after almost a year, anytime I catch someone with the same first name, during movie trailers, commercials, radio, it sends me into a panic… mixed with deep pain.

I don’t confuse this “presence” so much as love or any sort of good thing. And, when I do catch myself thinking in a quasi-wistful romantic way, I quickly remind myself how unhealthy it is to relate my ex-sociopath relationship to healthy love.

This is just my brain, its phantom nerves – seeking a connection…wanting and needing to have some sort of closure on a loss that I can’t accept – wanting to go back to a time where he was important to me… where I was a step away from figuring out what was wrong – so, I could fix it, and get back to some semblance of normalcy and peace. A place where a happy conclusion was possible.

When something is broken, you can do something about it. But, not with a sociopath. You can never fix them, your relationship, or the past. All of that is a failed dream – become a real, living nighmare.

I think this whole thing speaks of the hardwired integrity and pro-social nature of the brain – that it would stimulate the areas associated with motivation, reward and addiction cravings… all the things necessary to deal with an emergency situation, or a situation turning sour.

It’s like we’re “built” to try to save, fix, and improve – else, we fixate on it and mourn deeply.


I agree purewaters.. nicely said… there is still a part of me that is angry that she was disordered…. I somehow think if she was not, we could have had it all… but then again..who knows?…….


I like the last sentence of the article….

” If attachment responses decrease as the days go by and falling out of love is a learning process, there could very well be physiological evidence that time heals all wounds.”

Yes, time heals.



If my ex-sociopath had not been disordered, the relationship would never have been, in the first place.

He would have treated his ex-wife lovingly and respectfully (not driving her into a mental breakdown, and leaving her, slandering her as he left onto other women – convincing everyone, including me, that it was her fault)…

And, I would not have been his next “victim”.

The person that I was “in love” with was a beautiful creation of my own mind, and his manipulation. It was doomed from the start. There are no “what if’s” for me, anymore.


Again.. interesting point purewaters… kinda like “The Butterfly Effect”….I’m smiling at that thought….


What gets me is that it’s all energy. You expend energy being good and of course you expend energy being an ash. Why in the world would anyone want to do the latter if it’s expending energy anyway?

Then I have to go back to Jesus telling us the answer … that it is the difference between spiritual thinking and carnal thinking.


Sooner or later , it boils down to: I quit.

At the end of the day, we were lied to and played for what they could get – sex, power, supply.

They used who we are against us. And its a potent deception.

Once you cut them off for a few months and get back in the world with normal people, its interesting how little that experience of longing happens…

Gaslighting, love bombing, brainwashing- that stuff works. And careful not to let it happen again is the real!

It means changing the receptors and seeking something different than what we got.


Mine was my first love-at age 36. I was SO in love with him. Before I found LF I was 10 months post breakup and still wanting him and crying for him sometimes. When I was discarded it wasn’t expected and it hit me like a ton of bricks. The night before we were planning our future together. I was so devastated that I couldn’t work for 4 months and didn’t sleep hardly at all because I cried for him constantly. I never cried so much in my entire life.

It was so important for me to learn on here that I was in love with an illusion-the person he pretended to be. He could have gotten a freakin academy award for the acting that he did in our relationship. He seems to me now like a pathetic shell of a person and he’s a bigtime coward.

It’s still hard to come face to face with his wife-like I did at work today and look at her and know that she doesn’t know that I’m the one she was threatening last year. She doesn’t know when she sees my face that she is looking at the woman she promised to “take down”. Today was my first time face to face with her and I was A LITTLE unnerved-even though she can no longer do me any harm. She can’t run me out of another job. It’s just creepy to me. My boss was walking around the hospital with the CEO and motioning for me to put my name badge on but she has no idea that the spaths wife’s office was close to where we were standing.

I am not afraid of her. I just have a bad feeling that I can’t describe that is nervous. I feel nauseous. I’m just not yet ready to have her see my badge yet and know who I am.


Hello everyone,
I just want to say how much you all have helped. My ex was a narcissit to whom I was married for 18 years. I loved him with all my heart. He knew I was from a very close knit family and that marriage and children were a lifelong committemnt. When he asked me to marry him, I loved him and devoted myself to him. He always treated my Mom and Dad very well, because he knew that they meant the world to me. He used them as leverage with me. Then I had children and he used them as levarage. I did not know this at the time. I thought he was a good husband, always bought me gifts, tried to make me happy. Looking back I saw many red flags, but did not really see them. He finally dropped the mask 1 and 1/2 years ago. Finally realized that I was married to an illusion. I have thought aboutt him day and night.
I met him in court, and did not look in his eyes, I am a very strong women, and would not let him get the best of me. He seemed very irratated that I pretended he was not there.
Although I know I do not want him back. He seems to be glued to my brain. I often am mad at myself for thinking about him. It came so sudden and unexpected that I am having a hard time. I am dating and seeing other people just to get rid of him. But he seems to be in my brain. Does not help that he is uncoperative in courts, he is prolonging the pain. I think he knows it. Addicted to a sociopath ? I am, not the person but the illusion, how can one discard just like that a part of ones life that was happy ? I am suffering but he is not, he is with his new family, an lady younger by 22 years, and 4 children, whom I think are his. This new women thinks very highly of him, like I did. She will soon find out, poor kids, they will soon find out how it is to be discarded. Mine were discarded just like that. Hard to wrap my head around it, but I do understand. I am addicted, and I know I will get over it, buts its darn hard. Beyond words. Thank goodness for this site and you all who really understand.
God bless you all.

super chic

survivorlady, LOVE your screen name!!! You’ve found the right place, we have had many discussions on the very subject of having the spaths “glued to our brain”, it is tough to let go of the dream/illusion. Glad you are here, but sorry you have to be!! If you look along the left side of the page and click on the name Kathleen Hawk, you will find a very helpful, beautifully written series… on healing from the sociopath. We are survivors!!! Yeah!!!

super chic

Thank you Donna, for posting this link from an LF reader
(and thank you LF reader!)
Rejection is something I struggled with for years,
very interesting article!


Hi y’all

Yes I still think about my N ex more than I want to . Not with such strong feelings anymore since coming on LF which has been a major ‘watershed’ for me. But being habitually PO’d at exN is sometimes still like an ‘itch I can’t scratch’. It doesn’t hurt anymore -but it irritates me sometimes.

Anyway – I wanted to write to Erin1972 – as I’ve been reading your posts about bumping into your Spath’s wife at your job.

I’m concerned a little that you’re still vulnerable to getting into a battle with Spath’s wife and getting ‘dragged into drama’ again. So far I’m reading that you’re the one who’s ‘winning the battle’ and can actually see that she’s nothing particularly special (SHE IS NOT THE ONE, HE DID NOT CHANGE FOR HER !) and get validation that you were discarded BECAUSE there was something deficient in you.

From what I’ve read, you seem (as is typical for LF bloggers) like an really cool person. He likely discarded you because you became a ‘less easy mark’ for whatever reason. Maybe you’re pretty and socially desirable and he could see that you have great reasons to believe in yourself, are smarter, were starting to ‘work him out’ or whatever, he knew from his previous experiences that the time was coming soon that you would be calling him on his b/s more and more and he would be exposed to you. Unbearable to an N S or P to be ‘unmasked’ – they’ll do anything to avoid it!

I think that maybe your dream of becoming a police officer actually scared him, ‘cos he knew you’d likely develop better skills and become more confident etc. He couldn’t be in a relationship with someone who would ‘outshine’ him in anyway or who’s trained to spot b/s. Makes you too tricky to control etc.

Certainly I’m picking up that this situation with Spath’s new wife is a ‘battle’ and might be triggering you. She’s a ‘rival’ still. I totally get this because I had to have contact at some points with persons my exN boyfriend had slept with and one he left me for. It really consumed me for ages (far too long in retrospect).

It’s a kind of form of vicarious contact with your Spath -is what worries me and might hold you back in your healing in the longer run.

Is there anyway that you could proactively look at your career choices to a ‘sideways’ move, a promotion or a move to another dept or job. Somewhere that you can quiety make the impetus to GET AWAY – work for you in your career plans, without a word to anyone else?

You know that this woman was used as an ‘instrument of torture’ by Spath and that she’s going to be hurt by him just like you were – sooner or later it’s going to happen even if there’s no ‘outside’ evidence for a long time. He is what he is. He hasn’t changed and he doesn’t love her. They can’t love!!!

Don’t let your fascination at the ‘car crash’ stop you getting to your destination hun!

I had to move jobs too to get away from exN, at first I was angry ‘cos I saw this as ‘being pushed out’ – in the end I made it work for me and when I was ‘fit to work again’ – (after 4 months of total nervous breakdown) actually ended up going for a more senior position (which I got). Ha!

I’m concerned Erin1972 – don’t get caught up in their web again out of a desire to ‘win’. I am saying this because the last thing I was able to give up was this desire for ‘vengeance’ or to ‘win the game’. It took me 2 1/2 years to start getting to the point where I’m finally actually becoming bored with thinking about ways to get him back! I am at a point where usually I have something more fun or worthwhile to do.

Focus on the people that give you good vibes and happy thoughts hun. You deserve an N S and P free life now!!!

I hope that this post is taken in the spirit it’s meant – which is that YOU DESERVE BETTER!


Delta 1


Delta1-I was hardly thinking about either one of them until she showed up here at my job. I am not going to make myself miserable by continuing to feel intimidated. I’m over it.


Thanks you for this link, Donna! It helps to explain so much about why we have difficulty moving away from the spath.

For me, I was in love with the FANTASY, and not the reality. I was quite aware, early on, that the reality was that I’d made a huge mistake in choosing the ex spath. The FANTASY was that he would “recognize” and “appreciate” my personal sacrifices and “demonstrations” of love and … change. Of course, that can’t happen, and it took nearly 15 years for me to realize this.

Thanks, again! Brightest blessings.


Oh yay Erin1972,

I guess I was ‘over concerned’ I’m happy to get your post and know that you’re feeling confident about all this and like you can really leave it all behind and ‘just not care’.

I think Oxy’s advice was great and yeah – treat her like the pot plant or the office photocopier!!!

I guess you’ve got your police plans in any case and soon this will all be ‘academic’ cos you’ll being doing your training and all.

You go girl!!!



After googling my ex’s yahoo name, I found his Flickr account, where he has quite a stash of porno pics.
Funny thing is his photostream is the same set of pics he uses on his online dating accounts, and in 2 of them, on the screen saver of his computer, is a woman at the beach. That woman is me.
No longer do I look at him as desirable, I laugh.
Time heals the wounds.


silvermoon, you are indeed correct! For me, it boiled down to those 2 words, “I quit.” and that is exactly what I did. I went through the difficult process of seeing him for what he really was, and is. Some things don’t change because in their eyes, they don’t have a problem to begin with.

I know that the love I felt at one time for the ex was genuinely real and I don’t deny or dishonor that. I know that what I gave him was the best, and then some, of me. When we give from the heart, we give from a very special place and I’m happy that my heart still loves. Did he deserve it? NO. He took it and used it and twisted and turned it all around. I have found I use far less energy this way and when I think of him, I look at him as a fool. That’s what he is.


more to learn and share…


I think it was Henry who said the constant thinking of the P was like a “brain virus” so true for me anyway. I have to trust the fact that “time heals” but how much time are we talking about with these relationships? I have had this “brain virus” for too long now and see no relief in sight.


Delta1-yeah and I’m going to have a hard time holding in laughter when she does come face to face with me and reads my badge. I’ve learned through all this that I DON’T have to be nice all the time. My people-pleasing (thanks N egg donor) caused me to fall for his crap. His lies and manipulation. He said all the right things and lies to get me to go AGAINST my beliefs. I can’t believe that my own self hatred(thanks N egg donor) allowed ME to be naive enough to fall for his lies and be with him even though he was married. Big fat lesson for me. I get the impression that some peeps on here want to put me down for it-you know who you are-and ya know what, I don’t give a crap. Nobody knows how I feel unless they can put on my shoes and walk around in them. I know it will be much harder for HER than it is for me being in the same building. I can understand how she feels-BUT: one does NOT get to make threats against me and get away scot free without me being angry. When she wanted to divorce him she tried to cuddle up to me to get me on her side. She wanted it to be “us against him”. Then she pulled a Mr Hyde just like he did and began being nasty and made threats against me.

My deal is that I am not entertaining her AT ALL. I can’t even anticipate what will happen when she figures out who I am. She could be VERY ugly and I’m going to have to turn around and walk the other way. People from the police that know me have told me NC in any way shape or form with either one of them. If they mess with me I’m to document it. Any attempts at phone calls/emails will be saved. She has a much higher rank than me at the hospital but I have more seniority. She is probably thinking that it’s been a year since he discarded me. She probably THINKS she has him on a very short leash and now it’s time for her to come here and start fresh. EVERYONE from the last place we worked together knew about what happened with me and her husband, as well as the fact that she let him BUY her back. She was probably a little humiliated there and she probably thinks that life is like a bowl of cherries now. I’m sure she thinks he’s never going to cheat again( keep dreamin’)-nevermind that he’s done it since they first got married.

Anyway-I’m out! I’m on with my life and she will have to deal. There is no more vulnerability about me now-only empowerment and self esteem that’s coming back. She will have to deal with what SHE TOOK BACK!!!!


Dear Cat,

You wrote, “I know that the love I felt at one time for the ex was genuinely real and I don’t deny or dishonor that. I know that what I gave him was the best, and then some, of me. When we give from the heart, we give from a very special place and I’m happy that my heart still loves. Did he deserve it? NO. He took it and used it and twisted and turned it all around. I have found I use far less energy this way and when I think of him, I look at him as a fool. That’s what he is.”

Your words really resonated with me. I also loved my N/S more than I had ever loved anyone and it came from a deep place in my heart. Finally here was someone who “got” me and he really seemed to want our relationship to be permanent. He was so smart, we would talk for hours and never tire of each other, and we had such fun together. For three years I was very much in love and could not imagine life without him.

The devastation of suddenly finding out that he was sleeping with his ex-wife AND carrying on with a young woman at work.. well, I have never experienced such shock. It’s been five years and it still echoes and hurts at times. I will never forget his face when I discovered the truth. It turned a strange shade of gray. This must be what they talk about when the N/S becomes unmasked! It was pure evil and although it lasted just an instant, it felt like I saw the devil himself. I don’t even remember the rest of that night.

Well, of course, that was not the end of our relationship.. several months later I let him back in when he told me he didn’t want to lose me and swore the fling with the co-worker was over, never to happen again. Well, I was totally fooled because he was still seeing her, but it took almost another year for me to realize that. Still, I kept on loving him and forgiving him. Then I ended it for a while (AGAIN) when I couldn’t take the pain anymore.

During that period of no contact, he took up with one of his ex-wife’s friends, while still seeing his ex-wife AND dating the co-worker. Finally that woman dumped him because mutual friends of theirs did not approve of the fact that he was dating his ex-wife’s friend and gave them a hard time.

Then we went through a period when we were just “friends.” I knew my sense of reality was twisted and that I had ZERO boundaries left when I would listen to him talk about the triangle of ladies, all the while making himself sound like the victim and assuming no responsibility for the debacle that he created. I listened ad nauseum, gave him advice.. then later I would feel sick at my stomach because of course I still cared for him. But he didn’t really care about my feelings and it was hard to acknowledge that to myself. So I brushed that aside.

Then a few months ago I sat through a conversation in which he shed tears and told me how much he had “loved” his wife’s friend, how she was “perfect” for him, and how he could never go back to her because she “hurt” him when she broke off their relationship!!

Finally, I realized that the love I had once felt had been replaced by an unhealthy ADDICTION to his drama. I didn’t really know this person, nor did I know myself anymore. And he was still lying about minor things.. unnecessary, senseless lies!!! Suddenly one day about six weeks ago, after discovering another lie, all the frustration I had held inside for five years exploded, and I was able to look at him and feel nothing but disgust for his weakness and what he had done not only to me but to the other women. Yes, we were all participants but the way he treated each woman was appalling.

Thank God for that moment.. I never could get to that point before, and I don’t understand why it took me that long. I’m just grateful I did. I got out just before totally losing myself.. and my sanity. Slowly I am rebuilding my emotional strength and my self-esteem. For many of us on here, it will be a long journey and thank goodness for the people and stories on this blog. They truly make a difference along the road to recovery. Bless you all!

Ox Drover

E72, YOu Go GF!!!!! NO CONTACT, don’t even act like she is visible. YOu can do it! Besides, you are far better off than she is, SHE HAS HIM AND YOU DON’T. You have learned what he is and believe me HE IS NO PRIZE—-that is definitely one contest you don’t want that prize. SO YOU WIN—the loser gets him! Hold your head up high, stick your chin out, and just keep on walking!

Every one of us, every living human, have made mistakes in the past, but we are learning from them, and doing better now. That’s all anyone can do! So keep on trucking!


MO152-the way you described that deep in your heart love for your ex was exactly identical to my relationship. That whole paragraph you used is it and I couldn’t have described it any better. It’s been over a year since mine discarded me but sometimes it seems like yesterday. Part of it seems like a dream or something. The utter pain and devastation that I felt last summer was the most intense and exhausting pain of my life. I can’t even relate to it now but I just remember weeping heart wrenching sobs for months and months. I was unemployed and couldn’t keep work because I was so devastated. I was in a dark room all summer bawling my head off day and night. Sometimes now I think-did that really happen? Was I really like that? He is a malignant narcissist-the worst kind of evil and I know intellectually that it was all fraud but sometimes deep in my heart, I miss the love of my life. I wish that my heart could catch up with my head. I can’t stand to admit that when I see his wife at work, I do feel a tiny bit of pain. She has him and they deserve each other but I wonder why I still feel this way cuz I would never ever ever have him in my life again! I don’t get it!


Thanks Oxy for lifting me up there. I appreciate it. I am going to keep it up. I know I won and she lost. The loser gets the narcissist. She’s walking around that job all ms smiley but when she smiles her face looks constipated. That smile is going to turn into something quite nasty when she finally catches a look at my name badge. It will be NOTHIN NICE. If I can maintain this control with it, it will be HUGE for me. I will feel tough as nails-just like you. ((hugs))

Ox Drover


Sweetie I’m not tough as nails, but I am as stubborn as an old sow badger sometimes! LOL Actually I’ve kind of been a push over and a sucker for a sob story, which is really how I ended up here at LF in the first place. Too gullible, too giving and too much of a sucker. But I”m learning to stand up for myself, so let’s me and you learn together, OK? We will learn to NOT REACT to whatever they do. We will raise our heads high and walk away silently, let them scream and make an ass out of themselves, we will be ABOVE all that carp! WE CAN DO IT!!!!


Hens-I completely agree with you on that one. I think that I am better of single-except there is that one part of me who wants to get married and have a child before I get too old.

Oxy-I am with you too. We will learn to not react to them. The hardest part for me will be if I end up with her and my patient in the elevator and she messes with me. I can’t stand it when people are inappropriate in front of my patients. A couple weeks ago I chewed on a narcissistic EP physician for making my patient cry right before her procedure-he was being mean. I just have to tell you something too-cuz you’re a nurse and you can relate, but I was so angry at work yesterday I couldn’t stand it. I complain a lot because I feel like most everyone in my dept is S or N. Here’s the story-yesterday morning one of my girls from work was driving in and started having diaphoresis, left arm pain radiating to her jaw and shortness of breath. She had to go to the ER instead of working her shift. She was getting tests all day long. I went down to check on her and when I came back, one of the young xray techs in my dept was in the computer looking at my friends labs and medical history. She does something totally illegal in front of someone who is getting ready to be a cop and thinks it’s ok. I told her-YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE DOING THAT-IT’S NOT ALLOWED AND IT’SWRONG. Her response was “I don’t care-I’ll do what I want”. I wanted to smack her 25 year old mouth. Then she was looking up this woman’s CT scan as well and showing it to people and asked the radiologist to read it for them–and HE DID IT. I was mad and said something about it to someone I thought I could trust and he went back and said something to this girl. The next thing I know I have a 25 year old in my face screaming at me for talking about her behind her back. Nevermind the fact that I had just called her out to her face for doing something wrong. There is NO way that I will go to the ER at my own hospital for ANYTHING. It’s offensive for coworkers to look up private business. It’s actually illegal for us to even look up our own lab results.


The responsibility for that even being possible rests under the head of operations or Finance- whoever is in charge of IT.

The computer guys should have their BUTTS handed to them for this even being possible.

If the records about who logged into what database and looked at what files exist, the information which would be evidence for prosecution exists.

Usually, the network adminstrator has access to seeing who logged in and what they looked at….

Just a thought……


Silver-I know that our system does record who looks at what when they log in. I just don’t know if it would pick up on her looking at another coworkers info versus another patient’s information. She said she did it to check on this other nurse. It still was wrong because she didn’t ask her permission. I was with her in the ER checking on her and the ER doc came up to us and started talking to her about her test results and didn’t even ask her if it was alright if he spoke in front of me. I don’t care what excuse they use and how they try to spin it-looking at other’s private info is wrong without their permission. The girl who did it is lucky that I didn’t go to management and she’s going to go off on ME for calling her out.

Ox Drover

I lost a long post about this E72—we had a physician and 2 secretaries charged here in AR and convicted of FELONIES of looking at inappropriate information they had no right to. Plus the victim’s family sued the heck out of them. And should have. There is no excuse for “recreational” reading of medical records.

CALL THE COMPLIANCE MANAGER of the hospital. Don’t even yell at the person doing it, just TURN THEM IN IMMEDIATELY from another phone. IT has got it so they can be proven, in fact, go to the complliance manager NOW (tomorrow) and tell them WHO and when, if the manager doesn’t take it seriously, then go up the line, all the way to the FBI!


OX has a great suggestion. If you don’t bring it up to compliance, you could be named complicit….. Its not ok to know and go along or stand by. Even if its a difficult situation.

Do you have any witnesses to you calling them on it?


I don’t think I have witnesses. The only problem I have is that I NEED this job until I can get my other one back and I have to work with these people everyday. My coworkers dislike me already because I’m not like them (S/N) and they will know who told on them.


Well I don’t know why you would still want your sociopathic partner, but here is a reason to not want them. I just heard this and it is awesome. The lyrics to Social Distortion’s Far Behind.- It rocks too.
With friends like you who needs enemies
You ain’t right, you ain’t never gonna be
You’re out of the call, I’m afraid you’ve been declined
You shake my hand while you’re pissin’ on my leg
I’m cuttin’ you loose, I don’t need this misery
Your soul is toxic, you ain’t no friend of mine


You talk real trash when I’m not around
To build yourself up, you gotta tear me down
You’ll have to excuse me, I have better things to do
You smile through your teeth, you talk out your neck
Every chance you gonna get you’re gonna stab my back
Your time’s runnin’ out, I’ve got nothing left for you

I’m leaving you far behind
I’m leaving you far behind
Stop wastin’ all of my time
I’m leaving you far behind


So I’m pulling out the weeds, I’m taking stock
You can talk the talk, but can’t walk the walk
Your narcissistic ways have gotten the best of you
So I’m leaving you to sink, in all your glory
For you and me it’s the end of the story.
Get out of my way, I’ve got better things to do

I’m leaving you far behind
I’m leaving you far behind
Stop wastin’ all of my time
I’m leaving you far behind

I’m leaving you far behind
I’m leaving you far behind
Stop wastin’ all of my time
I’m leaving you far behind

I’m leaving you far behind
I’m leaving you far behind
Stop wastin’ all of my time
I’m leaving you far behind

With friends like you who needs enemies
You ain’t right, you ain’t never gonna be
Your soul is toxic, you ain’t no friend of mine


Hiya again E72,

Well I guess I’ve been thinking about you. I think your story reasonates with me alot because my relationship with my ex N caused me (for a while) real c**p at work. I was flaming angry about this for the longest time.

I think, like you, I had a vocation to do my job and felt that my exN was evil for not only hurting me, but the knock on effects on everyone else around me – including my clients (That was my experience anyway).

I don’t know if I would’ve had your strength to face up to someone else who’d been ‘or is with with’ exN in a work situation so I’ve got sooooo much admiration for you for toughing this out.

I think it’s bound to hurt sometimes though – she’s a reminder and trigger of a very nasty experience.

What I found helped me, and maybe it would help you was to focus to trying to find whatever it was I thought I would have with ex N.

In my case my biological clock was ticking LOUDLY – I wanted a partner and children. I hung onto exN because of fear of ‘time running out’ – I even thought I could have a child even if he didn’t actually stay with me in the long run (soooooooooo glad this didn’t happen!!).

Actually I’ve now gone past where children are (for one reason or another) physically possible for me. I’ve decided to look into fostering, also I was also very comforted by volunteering at a street orphanage in India. So many children needing a mother’s love. I know that this would not be right for everyone who’s ‘childless’ – but it did really ease my pain and give me hope and a focus for my ‘maternal feelings’. I also got a dog LOL (cliche or what!).

Anyway my point really is that in those odd moments here and there (we all get ’em) when you think of some hope or dream or experience with exN that you ‘miss’ – if you focus it back on trying to make the kind of life for yourself that you want and remind yourself of what you are or could do to try to bring the things you want closer to you, I find it helps alot.

The exN mirrored our cherished dreams back to us, and we thought we’d found our dream – but maybe they were just a ‘sign-post’ to finding it for real?

I hope that this isn’t too obvious, i don’t want to insult your intelligence!




Delta1-you’re not insulting my intelligence. I really appreciate what you said and your situation appears to be a little similar with mine. My ex N/S had a 23 y/o daughter but told me that he wanted another child but it never happened so we were planning on it for after I went to the police academy and got settled in the career. See, I am 37 and my clock is ticking badly too. Most all of my friends and acquaintances have those things already-the partner and children. My thing is, is that prior to meeting him, I never wanted children because I felt like my mom messed me up so much and didn’t want that responsibility. I fell SO INCREDIBLY HARD for him and it was my first time truly being in love. Suddenly those feelings came crashing into me-that I wanted that little person that was a combo of both of us. It was before I knew that he was a fake/phony. He really should get an academy award. That’s one of the reason that I was SO devastated. When he left I didn’t think I would ever be normal ever again. I had never felt pain like that in my life and it’s still hard to talk about a little. I couldn’t work for 4 months. I was doing temp work cuz it was all I could get due to the economy. No one in my city was hiring full time in my field after I had to quit my beloved police academy. I kept getting released from all the temp assignments cuz I was crying all the time. I didn’t sleep for months and months and stayed in a dark room crying and watching DVD’s and crying some more. I was weeping for months. For the first month I was completely hysterical with pain. Sometimes I wonder how I survived. I don’t know if I will ever take a chance on love again. I NEVER want to feel that level of pain EVER again. It was like he reached inside my chest,ripped my heart out and stomped on it til it died and wouldn’t work anymore. I can’t feel that kind of pain anymore. Right now I just want my police job back so much. After the 1st of the year I’m applying to like 8 different cities. If they don’t start to hire in my hometown, I’ll have to leave and go elsewhere. For a long time after we broke up I still was so hurt because I wanted that child. I wanted it more than anything. That’s why I finally came to this blog and learned so much. Oxy told me that if I had a child with him that it would have a really high chance of being a P/N/S because of his genetics and I didn’t want to worry about our child growing up to hurt people.


Erin1972…{{HUGS}} Perhaps, Erin, you didn’t produce that child with the spath so that you COULD realize your true potential. Try to imagine an innocent life being brought into an environment of a spath. Then, try to imagine feeling that you’ll never get OUT with your child, so you are compelled to remain in the spath insanity. Then, compound all of those factors and imagine what an emotionally UNhealthy child would have resulted.

You’re blessed, Erin – you have an opportunity to do what you’ve always wanted. You’ve also gained enormous wisdom as a result of your experiences. You’re a hero to others who are just climbing out of the spath hole.

Brightest, most healing blessings to you!


Buttons-thanks. I had originally wished that I had gone ahead and gotten pregnant when I wanted to but now I’m glad I didn’t. I had always promised him that I wouldn’t go off the pill unless we were both ready for it and had talked and agreed that it was time. When he discarded me and I was in so much pain, I wanted that child so desperately to have a part of him to hang onto cuz I was upset that I lost him to HER.

Now I feel so glad that it didn’t happen because I may look at that child the same way that a rape victim would if they kept their child-I may love that child but grow to resent him/her. I DO not want to do that to a child. So now I try and put it out of my mind. It’s hard when I hear about people at work talking about having kids-sometimes it’s hard not to cry and I just have to suck it up.

Now when I see his wife at work, I don’t feel threatened by her and I’m sure not jealous of her. Yes, she won him but what kind of a prize is it? I would definitely NOT like being in a situation where I knew that my husband had a very deep intimate relationship with someone else and only wanted me around for his social status. His wife felt that he was “in love with me” and that’s why she hates me. She wanted him back though for HER social status, so I think she is as crazy as he is and that’s why I can see her as wallpaper or a potted plant because I have no use for her and she can’t harm me.


Dear Erin1972,

I have been reading your posts about having a child with your ex. Buttons was dead on when she said that the child may end up having a disordered personality due to the genes of the spath father.

My 16 year old daughter had signs of being unable to emotionally attach when she was younger, kind of in her own little world. Luckily, she grew into her emotions and now is empathetic and cares for people. One thing that is kind of eerie, she is smart about her dad and said the reason is because she can think like him. She has some sort of insite into his distorted thinking. She is the one telling me not to believe anything he says and all he wants is control and to win. She sometimes feels that she has two halves to her personality, her logical side and emotional side. I put her in
counseling because of her dad and it has helped her considerably.

You have a big heart and one day you may decide to adopt or have in vitro fertiliation. After you finish the acadamy and become more of who you were meant to be, you may find that you want to have a child and it’s not too late. Give yourself the love and forgiveness that was missing from your relationship with your mom and with the spath. You deserve happiness and so much more. Strenghten your core, be impervious to the spaths wife or anyone trying to take advantage of your good nature.

Best wishes…


Just recently some movies that we had gone to are now on TV and I was watching them and it made me melancoly for him and the time that we were together. But it was for the dream and the spin that he created. He was so good at creating this ‘dream’ for what life was going to be. We did have some fun together, but it was based on lies and smoke and mirrors. I look back and have these moments of wishing that he had been real and true and that what he painted as possible, would’ve happened. But is was improbable, it was a false story that could never live. But still, I have moments of longing. But those moments are getting fewer and further apart.


Kids have a resiliant and wise side…..and sometimes it’s just plane hard to see traits in them….especially when we are worried about them becoming like father spath.

I’ts important to nurture the good in them, and then hope for the best! Its’ a very uncomfortable ‘place’ to be …..wondering about your child!!!!


Dear MO152,
One of the most major parts of my healing has been to accept that what I felt was real and to honor that, regardless of what he did or didn’t feel, in this case, DIDN’T. I can’t change that and I know that no matter what, for me, it was still one of the greatest loves of my life…..And then one day, I woke up.

Much like others on here, it’s a moment, an epiphany, such as you have described. I looked at my ex with total disrespect, in fact, I could say he was the first person I truly hated. And it WAS an addiction, just as you said. I had turned good, healthy emotions into and addiction to false promises, lies, cheating, chaos and total confusion. I compare him to the worst drug, whatever that is, a person can be hooked on. I was hooked and it was ALL my choice.
But what I felt in the beginning was real, very real. And mine went on over the course of 10 years. I say that because I did leave him at times and then he would follow.

Now that he’s gone, I see more and more every day. I find it interesting that others are coming out of the woodwork these days and telling me things no one would have previously told me before. It was a LARGE myth that he spread that we were just having a rough time, he still loved my madly AND I still loved him; I just didn’t know it. HuH???? Whatever, dude. I couldn’t get him gone fast enough. And he’s still out there using drugs and conning others. Whenever I hear this, it says to me that I made all the right choices in the end, even though the ones I made BEFORE that were wrong.

Erin172, That is OUTRAGEOUS! regarding the patient’s records. That is very much against the law and I think Ox and others are giving you some good advice on here.

Buttons, I too agree with what you wrote to Erin about having a child. Erin, it will happen exactly when it’s meant to and I have found that certain things don’t happen when I want them to because God is actually protecting me from further harm and hurt. I can point to a dozen different incidents where this happened with my ex.

I am just grateful I’m truly awake today, have my sanity (sometimes) and that each day I wake up more and more often with a smile and not a stomach full of fear.

Hugs to all!


I went to that website and LOVE it! I now have it bookmarked. I hear what you are saying about the dream. It all was just a dream with mine. He was out doing unconscionable things while I was sitting there thinking I was in a real relationship. I have NEVER in my life had someone put such a twist on reality as the spath did. Unreal…just like they are.


Cat, glad that you like it.. pass the link along.. we are going to have some really interesting things coming up..

Cat is right about the waking up one day thing. It makes you wonder how other people don’t see it, then you remember, oh, wait…I didn’t, either. There have been so many times I’ve wanted to warn others, but I don’t think anyone sees it until that moment. Some people who are farther removed from it might never see it.

Ox Drover

E72, You don’t need a witness, the computer itself will be the witness….. you saw these people VIOLATING the law. Would you keep your mouth shut if you saw one of them HIT as patient? I don”t think so. It is just the same, it is PATIENT ABUSE, and BREAKING the LAW, just like you are required to call CPS if you think a child has been molested, or any other felony crime, I think this one qualifies as well. It is a felony.’

If the hospital fires you for blowing the whistle on this—you are a rich woman. I bet Matt would come out of DC to be your attorney on that case! LOL


Am I crazy? This morning I wake up to his voice on the answering machime as clear as a bell..he says ‘Honey it’s me, I just want you to know I am thinking of you and I miss you’ I jump out of bed run to the phone and there was no message, no one had called, he doesnt even know my number..bad dream?


hens – it’s either a detox or a premonition. shit leaving or coming.

each time i step out more into the world the more she comes up to block me. i keep walking, but she comes with me lots.

i know you need to move out further into the world. maybe it’s that paradigm.

and if it is the other, be alert.

first day of job was weeeird. getting much better. lots of pain in my body, but i have made it through the week. well one more day. i have a job hens!

Ox Drover


THAT’S WHY YOU ARE HERE AT LOVEFRAUD! What you had was a DREAM as you woke up! It happens! Don’t let it freak you out! It is kind of like your brain pulls a practical joke on you—like let’s see what we can do to freak old Henry out! hee hee.

I had my phone in my pocket the other day and I heard this VOICE like a radio off some where in the distance—forgot about the phone in the pocket—turned out I had punched enough buttons it was on voice mail, but sure freaked me out! I think we’re just a bit “jumpy” so just blow it off. Yea, we are ALL Crazy to one extent or another! B ut we luv you anyway!


or you might be certifiable. dunno. 🙂

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