Do sociopaths know what they are? Many, many Lovefraud readers ask me this question. The short answer is that some of them do and some of them don’t.
The man who sent me the following email certainly has insight into his own personality:
I would like to thank you for making your videos they have given me an insight into how you people recognize us. WE are not to blame for your short comings because you are weak minded and foolish enough to be taken advantage of. We are evolutions next step we don’t allow silly emotions to cloud our judgments. In fact we use our advantage for survival because we are natures next course. I know I sound very narcissistic and apologize for that but if you are so proud and concerned and attached to your emotions why not allow someone to make you feel like a queen for something as worldly as money? We give you what you are missing just as all of the world ecosystem has since the beginning of time. It’s funny how we have been so easily classified and even now as I attempt to alter myself in order to become unparallel to descriptions of us, I find it very difficult to even perceive. I would like to boast of my strategic victories over hearts but I would fear you making another video and making this game more difficult, of course it would make it much more challenging and pleasurable when enjoying the hunt.
This email is a great example of the sociopathic perspective, whether or not individual sociopaths are aware of it. Lest we forget, here is how sociopaths view themselves, the rest of us, and the world:
1. Sociopaths are superior beings, and everyone else is a mark.
2. If marks are dumb enough to be conned, they get what they deserve.
3. Marks deserve to be targeted because of their stupid emotions and consciences.
4. Emotions and consciences are useful in marks, because they can be exploited.
5. Exploitation is a perfectly reasonable way for sociopaths to get what they want.
This is why there is no rehabilitation for sociopaths. They do not feel that they have a disorder; rather, sociopaths believe they have an evolutionary competitive advantage.
Or, for those sociopaths who don’t have the intelligence or education to analyze their place in the world, they’re simply content the way they are and see no need for change.
Fight, Don’t me too much credit. I am not to the point of enjoying life. I can live a little more normally. That’s a big step, but only a first step, but I have a whole ladder still to climb.
I couldn’t answer a phone for a reason. About 2 weeks after the latespath died, I got a call from a credit company asking to speak to my mother. I told the person that my mother couldn’t speak on the phone and hadn’t since the previous February. I then asked what this was in reference to. They told me her ‘big name’ credit card payment was late. I replied that this was impossible as she didn’t have that card. They went on to tell me that her main phone number was disconnected. I went on to explain that the lady they wanted to speak to was a blind 80 year old who had not been able to go out, let alone shop, in almost 2 years as she had a feeding tube inserted. I then said that the phone number they were calling was the only number she had since 1998, when she changed after her husband died. They told me the ‘main’ number they called; lo and behold it the latespath’s cell. That was when I found out he had forged a credit card application in my mother’s name and had them issue a secondary card in his name.
Well, they wouldn’t stop calling; one day, 11 phone calls. When I found my ‘good law firm’, they contacted the credit card company and dealt with it. He was directly paying for this card from the stock account. The credit card sent a copy of the entire set of statements to the law firm, that’s how I am able to post accurate amounts of what the latespath spent and when and where. Since he died, he couldn’t authorize further payments, so it became past-due. Same for his cell phone, which was why the service was turned off.
The phone was just another way for me to get hurt by his actions. So I unplugged the phone. If it didn’t ring, I would not get any more surprises.
On line bills and payments are convenient and easy; but they can hide a whole double life if used incorrectly. He was such a master computer forger, he created paper stock statements showing every as it should be and mailed them to the house; while he got the brokerage to send them to his email account. In his paraphrased words, “I can not stop all paper mail, so I have to be at home on certain days. If not, World War 3 will happen.” He was friendly with the mailman, I have no idea if that helped him any.
Mail, well all my mail still gets forwarded directly to the ‘good law firm’. Again I can’t deal with any surprises. Mail, like phone calls, was just another source of pain.
A couple of week ago, I went to the supermarket during daylight. While the stores are 24 hours, the deli closes. I have not had fresh sliced cold cuts or cheese in 4 years. Clothes, I bought the necessities in the supermarket as well.
I went out, really went out, once. I went to NYC Palm Sunday 09 to reunite with my high sweetie. That was the only time I was able to bring myself to physically see him. If my mother was not in ICU at the time, I am not sure I could have brought myself to even do that. Phone calls and emails are fine for me at this point.
This is just me, I find it ‘releasing’ to just type here. That’s why I find the ‘submit’ button so empowering. I can not bring myself to write to the broker. Oh I have written him many letters, but I can not bring myself to hit the send button or to print the letters and mail them. Same goes for the people in the latespath’s life. I am hoping to be able to do that.
Enjoy life, I don’t know if I will ever be able to do that. He stole so much from me and of me. It will be a big accomplishment to live normally.
Hi lost:
My injured eye is bothering me today. Did I write something about your enjoying life? I re-read my last couple of posts and don’t find that.
I am actually a lot like you….even the deli part. I will buy all of my groceries either super early in the morning or in the middle of the night to avoid people. I buy a ton of deli meat once every few weeks getting to the deli department right before it closes. I freeze a bunch of it so I don’t have to go very often during times when a lot of people are there.
I don’t see myself enjoying life either. If something big happened, and I could move out of the town I live in, I think I would feel safer for a lot of reasons. But, I have been trying to get rid of PTSD, Depression, and Agoraphobia for years now. Nothing works. I am also glad when I find online places to “be” with other humans and see if I can trust any of them. My posts are being removed here, so I could have, but we can’t know for sure now. And I am hoping that my message is getting seen in time here. Your day to day ability to survive is what it comes down to. I have OK days and I have bad days. My OK days include watching old movies, and I think it is good for me to go to that. But, I don’t enjoy life either and don’t think I will ever move on from any abuse.
I completely understand the need for social isolation and I even feel stress for days before and after necessary doctor appointments. If I wrote that I hoped to enjoy life, I must have been more hopeful than I thought. But, I couldn’t find that I posted that.
The devastation that spaths cause is probably the main cause for a lof of people with Agoraphobia. my posts are being removed. Thank you for the information. I have asked him to sign up for a list he was on before for housing. The problem is how to get him to do it? I think being completely unavailable at the end of the month when the addictive substances run out. He still has his fetish porn and he will have to use that to fill up the empty spaces left behind by Lola Coffee and Sadie Cigarettes! His true loves!
Hi Delores:
I agree with your posts. The other people who have discussed the lizard brain have disappeared from here as you can see through the threads. I am glad there are some of us who let the sociopath who wrote part of the article know that he is beneath us on the evolutionary scale and not above us as his delusions tell him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY_XPePTHQk
I have been reading these posts for several days now and found many to be very sad and demoralizing for their authors and all of us who have experienced the wrath of a sociopath. Mine was not as bad as some here have experienced; thank God for that! However, any experience with one is not pleasant and normally leaves us with some sort of financial loss in addition to the emotional scars they leave us with. That said, all is not lost. As some of you have rightly pointed out, we do learn from these experiences and armed with that knowledge can learn to avoid such a thing happening to us again. ALSO, it is important for all of us to know that we can go on to lead a mostly normal life afterwards and find love with another who is not a sociopath and be happy again. I will, like many of you, suffer financially for some years yet before the results left by one end completely, but I have been fortunate enough to have met a sweet woman whom I have married, and we are very happy together now. I will eventually dig out of the financial hole left by the FEMALE sociopath I had, but more importantly, I have managed to move on with my life and am happy again. I will never completely forget what the sociopath did to me, or forget what the detective told me about what she had done to others, but fortunately, it is behind me except for the remaining years left to completely recover financially, and life is good for me again. Hopefully, each of you will be able to experience a similar result with your lives as well. That, for me, is what this site is all about–not only to allow us to know that we are not alone–that others have been “snowed”, deceived, conned, or however you want to describe it by sociopaths, too, and that they exist in our society. That allows us to eventually forgive ourselves for having gotten mixed up with one in the first place. It also allows us to begin healing our own lives and in my case, able to love another and be happy again. Essentially, it is a site to educate us about sociopaths, allow us to interact with our stories which therapeutical in itself, and then hopefully move on with our lives as normally as possible. I was deceived, lied to, and conned by a younger female who was able to make me feel she loved me, or possibly could love me (I was always skeptical when she told me she loved me), played on my sympathy by among other things telling me she had a growth in her breast and feared she had breast cancer (she knew my wife had died from cancer), talked me into giving her money for various things (car repairs, needed maintenance, her sick mother, her sick child, an apartment deposit, gasoline and other various schemes she had) that normally I would have never done for anyone else, used sex to keep me believing her (telling me about how she was abused as a young girl by her uncle and her step-brother, how how ex-husbands had “used” her, and how nice it was with me, how much she felt “loved” by me), but finally messing up by stealing my credit card and running up an amazing amount of charges on it in the few days before I realized it and had it cancelled. The subsequent investigation into her by detectives when I reported the card being stolen revealed a person of pure evil who had supported herself solely since high school by prostitution, conning mostly older men, and some theft. Her family, as some have mentioned here about theirs, knew nothing of how she was really living her life. She lied to them as much as she did me. She had a fiancee who a few years younger than her that she had totally lied to, also. He couldn’t believe she had done any of the things the detectives had proof of and an arrest/conviction record to dispel any doubt of it. He thought he had found the “perfect woman” to marry and help raise his two sons, and when I told him she had proposed to me the day before she did him, it looked like he had been sucker punched in the stomach. At first, he denied it, then resolved to never see her again, but ultimately paid her bail for her (which he wound up losing), and hopefully never married her (there is one arrest record after her bail in which she gave her name as his last name, but then was later changed when jailed). She is currently serving out time to complete the sentence she was paroled on by the state of Missouri after completing the sentence she was on probation for in Illinois. Once she completes that, she will come to Tennessee to serve the 6 year sentence she has to serve here. No doubt when she completes her full time in prison, she will start doing the same things again, but probably won’t be quite as successful as before due to her age and likely not as desirable body as she had when I knew her. I’m sure, however, she will be better experienced in how to avoid being prosecuted for any crime by then and whoever is unlucky enough to be her next victim will likely be someone who will be impacted more negatively than I was, or any of her other past victims. It’s a shame that when one of these sociopaths are released after one is caught and found guilty of a crime involved in their behavior isn’t labeled similarly to sex offenders who have to report where they are and their past made public to those around them. The main thing for us, however, is that despite what one can do to us, we can recover and have a life that is normal again. There is hope for all of you; it may be a while, but it’s possible. Never forget or doubt that.
Jerry
tnvictim,
Thanks for posting that you’ve been able to find happiness after the sociopath! Some feel that might never happen.And truly,some experiences are more devastating than others.But starting with an open mind and with the “little joys in life” is like opening the gate to your heart…which is better than leaving the gate locked.
Delores: I am getting very, very sleepy. When I hear the sound of a chicken clucking, I will begin to speak in a language no one else will understand but it will be real! Real I tell you! Well, I guess when I consider that scientists have discovered that birds are evolutionary descendents of dinosaurs, my babbling will make sense to the chicken. LOL. I’ll bet your already gone, Delores. Most people are gone pretty quickly. But, I hope you are reading the free articles. I will get to that point as that is what the majority of people here do except for new people who spill their guts and then regret it.
Shouldn’t it be “they acted like humans?” Humans are the worst ‘critters’ ever to hit the planet.
Don’t insult the animal kingdom.
Reminds me of a cartoon I saw in PETA: A tiny mouse comes out of its hole and spots a woman with a broom…the caption reads: “EEK! A human!!”
Hmmm. Thank you for giving me something to consider here, Barb.
The very interesting book I am reading about the evolutionary origins of Psychopathy, includes a lot of credible scientific research that the Amygdala, AKA the Lizard Brain that remains in humans from billions of years ago, is the epicenter in the brain most accessed by sociopaths. The Amygdala is also referred to as the “reptile” brain. So not, animals, but reptiles are what brain scientists are discussing and researching. There are more evolved humans and less evolved humans. Hence, the less evolved are more reptilian. Not animals. Reptiles. The article and the comments are about the evolutionary process in conjunction with sociopaths, so I am discussing that.
When it comes to animals, Chimpanzees share 97% of the exact same DNA as what we recognize as human being DNA. That is why evolutionists look to the Chimpanzee for research. There is a lot of human research, but humans being observed are much more likely to change their behavior than Chimpanzees. So, I certainly agree with you about discussing sociopaths completely in comparison with true animals.
Here is an excerpt about Chimpanzees in relation to sociopath behaviors from an article I found here on LoveFraud. It was written by Dr. Liane Leedom:
“Sociopaths are by nature extremely vindictive! Vindictiveness comes from the power/dominance system in our brains. Scientific studies show that sociopathic people derive great pleasure from revenge. Revenge is a very primitive emotion that evolved to ensure enforcement of social reciprocity. It evolved before the capacity for love. We know this because of studies of chimpanzees. Chimpanzees are very vindictive and vengeful when a comrade fails to reciprocate, and their capacity for love has not evolved much. It is only the threat of revenge that induces chimpanzees to cooperate with each other, because they do not have love bonds that motivate cooperation. When a chimpanzee shares his food, he does not likely get a warm fuzzy feeling inside, instead he knows that others will later do the same for him. If others fail to reciprocate, revenge is always taken.”
Dr. Leedom’s sharing about this research shows that there are even sociopath elements in some parts of the animal kingdom and vengeful trouble makers are handled much better in the animal kingdom than in our human interactions. When the leader,or a group of more evolved leaders, of any animal or human “group” does not stop sociopaths from taking over, the sociopaths become successful in their bid to stomp on those without sociopath tendencies.
The book I am reading about Psychopaths discusses research that also makes this clear. That is why when the whole group witnesses sociopath behaviors in a normal setting in areas where humans gather, it usually can not be handled properly. The group gets threatened by dominating sociopaths. Often, there is a leader who will not, or can not, see that one or two sociopaths are taking over, and then that is when it is time to decide whether one wants to be a brave non-sociopath or leave the place where sociopaths run the group. The big difference between chimpanzees and humans is that chimpanzees do not talk. They only communicate. They do not discuss philosophies or attack about belief systems or abuse about personal thoughts. The only witness abusive behavior towards a fellow chimpanzee and they join forces to stop the bad behavior. Humans have philosophies and beliefs and are willing to attack, and even kill, over them.
In my previous work situation which I have shared about here, I was around devolved people who did not think for themselves any more. They had a philosophical group belief that they must be docile…even in the face of criminal activities. I had not given in to groupthink and am a very independent individual. It also was an important component that I was in the middle of grad school and learning how these systems of humans work.
I worked alone in ending sociopath behaviors that had become the norm and ended up being dangerous and life threatening to others. I sent some sociopaths to jail and some lost their jobs for criminal activities. But, because so many people use their lizard brains instead of the more evolved (individuals who want to protect the group as a whole vs. less evolved humans who want to protect only themselves and their own devolved thinking/ingrained philosophies) parts of their brain, they would not rise to a fully evolved human chance to make sure the lowest devolved sociopaths stopped their abuse of the system as well as anyone who spoke up about it. Some of the sociopaths shared their philosophy. The other sociopaths gave out money and gifts to get the less evolved “group” to go against their own philosophy.
I think you may be right, Barb, the Chimpanzees may be more evolved as far as group rules and communication than humans at this point. However, lizards are reptiles, and I was referring to the lizard part of the brain which acts without thinking.
I’ve seen that PETA cartoon. It is a chuckle.
Wow! This has gotten a bit cerebral for me! I do see that spaths are rather reptillion, cold and incapable of true affection and running on instinct rather that calculation. I can also see them as Chimplike, opportunistic, cowardly…out to take advantage when possible, but also responding to what they see as true threat of exposure. My spath was truely a coward, he wouldn’t have dared strike me, for one, he deathly feared incarceration, which is what happened to him when he struck his former GF with a flying object, but also, though spath was 6’5″, i had two brothers larger than spath, both trained martial artists. He was terrified of their reprisal. My brothers were disgusted with me for putting up with what i could stop, but they would definitely level the playing field if the abuse was physical. Other than them, he would use his size to intimidate.
I saw an interesting scientific program this weekend about the possiblity of the extinction of males. Females have 2 X chromozomes, males have 1 X and 1 Y chromosome. The X apparently has 790 genes, the Y now has only 19, where they used to be equal. It has gotten to the point that the X has enough genes to recover from damage, the Y no longer has. What a shame if this were to happen! I figure the loss of their genes must be directly related to the impurity of the gender…JMHO! Maybe they are being given their last chance to straighten up by Mother Nature, LOL! Please you guys out there, don’t take offense, i’m sort of joking…
Another thing about my spath, there was very little communication between the two of us, he refused to discuss emotional subjects, partially because he could, but partially because he couldn’t win. He was so intelligent in some ways, but couldn’t beat his way out of an emotional/logical paper bag.
Renee
Hi, imhope:
I am glad to see you back. This book I got that he ordered from the library and I picked up for him and never gave to him, has been a great handbook ABOUT him. He isn’t ever going to see it unless he can get off the walker an walk to the library (which is very close) and I prefer him on the walker if he isn’t going to take the option to leave.
I always wished I had brothers! They probably would have been super tall as well as I am 6′ tall. But, I have two younger sisters. A brother can scare a jerk. Sisters…they just like to make fun of behind their backs! My father is useless and actually ends up making things worse. He is not a Dad. He is a father.
I have seen some of the research about the evolutionary changes that are changing with the genders. Also, they have so much scientific technology to use to compare our brains now.
I do have a male friend who does have use of both sides of his brain at once, is super intelligent, and filled with empathy. I think there are males out there whom are more advanced brains. But, the research does show that male brains are very different from female brains and that they can only use one side of the brain at a time while women have more neural connections to use both sides at one time. I believe that is why more men use tricks and abuse to try to have more control. I know my spath can not keep up in a conversation and he is also intelligent with a very high IQ. But, when asked a question that requires both IQ and EQ, he can’t seem to comprehend without getting more information to understand…and since his abuse and tricks have always gotten him what he wanted, he doesn’t think he needs to understand most of the time.
A couple of days ago, he drew me into a conversation. (MY mistake!) This conversation included letting me know that he had cheated on all girlfriends because he was a “hottie” when he was young and couldn’t resist all of the women. I have seen photos of him when he was young. He was not a hottie! My attraction to him was based solely on personality and intelligence. I’m not typically a “looks” person. I don’t know if you have ever watched show “Cheers” but if you have, do you remember that smarmy friend of Sam’s named Dave who was a sports commentator? The spath told me that his mother told him he looked like that guy. That guy is not hot….but he is smarmy like the spath.
As I was hearing about his hotness and inability to turn down the women, I was just observing him like he was an experiment. Here’s how the conversation went: “So, where did these women approach you?” “The bar.” “So they approached you in the bar because you were a hottie?” “Oh, yeah. No one could believe it. I would be out drinking with a guy and they would COME OVER TO ME.” (Now keep in mind that I sang in a band for over 25 years. I have watched the barflies in their natural habitat.) I said, “So where these women with whom you cheated who saw you as a “hottie,” were they also hotties?” “Well, no (insert smarmy chuckle here), I wasn’t that picky.” I said, “So, you were a barfly/lounge lizard (lizard!) who went out to the same little bar every night and you were a hottie and the other barflies were drawn to your hotness?” “yeah.” “But, they were not all hotties?” “No.” “Did you tell them they were hot to get them revved up to have drunken or drug sex?” “Yes.” “Well is it possible that you were not a hottie and they were not hotties, but everyone told everyone else they were hotties to get free drinks, drugs, sex, etc.?” “I never thought of that.” I then said, “None of you were hotties. You were delusional barflies.” Real hotties don’t go to dark bars every night looking for meaningless sex. Lonely, unattractive, people without personalities do. I was there. I was in a band. I was not like you. I watched men and women like you, though.” I met a couple of real “hotties” who ended up asking me out even though I tried to maintain a wall in those places and was there to earn money. I went out with one because he was insistent. But, he was a jerk and a barfly and I dumped him after two dates and no sex.” He was left completely speechless. I won’t say I didn’t enjoy the conversation!
About your spath refusing to discuss real life situations and emotions, I have experienced that with mine as well. He has always made it clear that any day-to-day life concerns of mine mean nothing to him. My nephew is very young and very ill and was hospitalized for a couple of months recently and lost use of both his kidneys. I cried and tried to discuss it with the spath. He absolutely did not care. I have had trouble getting my lawn mowed this year and he complains that “all I talk about it the lawn” and he wants to have “fun.” This was all during this one conversation which he begged to have because I have told him to go ahead and get into VA housing next month and he doesn’t want to leave. I turned the tables on his during this discussion as well. I said, “So you want me to be fun all of the time and never discuss the real life issues of living here together?” He said, “yes.” “I can walk freely and I can have fun. Do you think it is fun to cart around a man on a walker?” “Now you’re going to make fun of my walker?!?” “No. I am just wondering if you would consider me fun enough for YOU if I had gone through two leg cancer surgeries, still demanding you go get me cigarettes, and if I was stooped on a walker?” He then became angry. The answer was no. He is supposed to have all the fun. I am supposed to see him as a “Hottie” no matter what he really is.
I would have to say this was one of the most eye-opening conversations I have ever had with him. He is terrified of leaving here. He will be taking buses everywhere for everything. He will not have the comforts of a home including a “hottie” 50 year old woman being mommy to a 58 year old train wreck who has never been a hottie. His baby pictures even look like ET and he still looks ET, the post drug years!
I am scared to lose his money and I am nervous about my own sick attachment to him even though I have been working at ending that as he is really unpleasant to be around most of the time. But, I know it is time and I hope he will just go peacefully. I even offered to give him half of August with no rent to just go. I have mostly had female tenants. There is a reason for that. The fact is, there are very few men (at least where I live) who are responsible enough to take care of themselves, pay rent, etc. in an apartment. The responsible men save their money and buy homes. The women I have had here were either young and just starting out or in their 30s and saving up for a home after a divorce.
All of our combined, and witnessed , sociopath behavior show us it is true. Science just confirms it for us. And, after the “hottie” conversation I had with a delusional old man, I am very grateful for the science to make up his inability to keep up with my own evolution….even during our lifetimes!
Thanks for posting this, imhope.
FFWR~
LOL! Unfortunately, my spath was a hottie, still is in some ways, till you get his clothes off, realize how obese he is, count the skin tags and recognize the disparity in his boobs and yours! I overlooked all that however, he never saw his repulsive side. When we married and stopped having sex, when i made a move on him he told me he didn’t want to be treated like a sex object. That was the last time i bothered! We lived the next 4 yrs of our 4.5 yr marriage sexless.
Something i want to bring up here and i haven’t really known where to do so is, something i presented to my PhD Psychologist. He said this was something he had never pondered, didn’t know if the psych community had but said he believed there was truth to it. From the time girls are old enough to show attraction to boys we are told that they will lie to us and do anything to swindle us out of our virginity or sex in general. They will tell us they love us, they will act like they love us, etc. From the time we are youngsters this is taught to us and basically accepted as SOP. Males aren’t really demonized for this, it’s just accepted as the way it is, but nobody ever tells us when we will be wise enough to know the difference, ergo, we never do! We grow up knowing that men will lie and cheat us out of what is rightfully ours and it’s okay. We assume when we “grow up” that the games will stop and we will magically be blessed with men of truth. The way i see it, we are put at a great disadvantage. We are so used to being lied to that we just accept it and live with it for the rest of our lives. This has to stop! This gives men a license to lie and take advantage of women. If you just absorb that one thing, it makes it a bit easier to understand how we are sucked in.
So…tell me what you think…
Renee
Hi, Imhope. Thanks for the reminder that I am not the only lucky one with a “hottie” spath and his barfly posse from the 70s! Did you know that they have connected skin tags with heart disease in medical research? That’s HOT! LOL.
fightforwhatsright,
I had the same agoraphobic reaction from abuse. The only way I can explain it is the abuse made me feel like a loser–and that was often the theme of his attacks, that in some way I was inadequate, defective, and a “worthless P.O.S.” In fact, throughout my life I have found that when people treat me well I have more social confidence, and if they don’t I have less. Perfectly logical.
What can I say, I guess I’m a herd animal at heart (I like cows too); but I’m also independent when I need to be and enjoy my solitude…and I have cats!
Liferaft2: Thank you. I know you know how much your responses and encouragement mean to me.
FFWR: That explains a lot – about the vindictiveness. If it’s hardwired into their brains, what hope is there that they could overcome that……..
Hi Everyone:
This book is making it very clear that much worldwide research shows that they are hardwired and they do not have the same brain capabilities we do. They only feel with their lizard brain.
They can only read and define and use those readings and definitions to gain whatever it is they want from a “target.” That is all their brains are capable of and it does help to know it because when I gave up even trying to explain the way an evolved, feeling human would, I truly was wasting my time and energy.
Now, that I am fully educated about this brain difference, I can observe him most of the time. I don’t have to even consider that he is a fully evolved person.
If he becomes abusive, I will put up with it just long enough to get my rent money and then I stay away.
Sociopaths are like that gecko on the ads. He’s cute. He talks in that charming and adorable accept. But, he is trying to sell you something.
Speaking of sociopaths and their devolutionary lizard brains (amygdalas), has anyone ever noticed that the name of the sociopath in the movie “Wall Street” was named Gorden Gekko? I’ll be that wasn’t a coincidence. Someone probably did a lot of research about the brains of sociopaths before choosing that name!
And “Gordon Gekko,” the fictional lizard-like character on “Wall Street,” has the same fictional birthday as my lizard brain and Gekko’s father died young of a heart attack the same as my spath’s father did. Wow. If that isn’t a message I need to receive, I don’t know what is!
There was a good article on the NY Times last week:
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/29/the-new-prostitutes/
Yes, it’s about prostitutes, but the author made the point, I have been saying all along: “The great transforming feature of the Internet is its anonymity. We all have learned that a person can do practically anything online without even their closest loved ones knowing,…”.
The latespath didn’t magically enter the world of internet escorting because of sex, he became a member because of the secrecy it provided. Especially when put together with the following email he sent an escort: “The kicker is … I have no problem with cash, but I have a big problem with using my name on anything … that is exactly the risk that I need to avoid.”. Or the one sent a fellow john “I do not yet know if it will work out. One of the tricky issues is that my name must be kept off of all paperwork, at all costs – I have too much to lose to take any risk. “.
He was well aware that if his name appeared on anything, a casual internet search could bring it up. He could never chance that, as his double/triple/ quadruple life and crimes would exposed.
The latespath made contact with the broker in spring 2001, my mother lost her sight in October 2002, he made his move in July 2003. No rush, he researched very well before he made his move.
The sex was a bonus, the anonymity was the draw.
Most people who steal into the millions, spend some of it on tangible things for themselves. He spent ALL of it on escorting, and it’s various expenses. When he died, he was still wearing the clothes my father, who died in 1998, kept in the basement as ‘work around the house’ clothes; shoes, 3 sizes too big for the latespath, with holes in them, shirts with frayed collars, or to put it in the word of a escort, “I told you not to wander around in that fucking old skinny mac babe, you will catch your death, get a bloody warm coat for fucks sake.”.
All he wanted was to spend the money he stole, he really didn’t care if he accomplished anything with it. From his point of view all the better just to deprive the people whose money it was.
The more hurt the better, just as he did with the jewelry he stole. Stealing it served no purpose other than hurt.
I’m not sure I’m understanding your situation correctly: you were married to a criminal psychopath who is now deceased; and he owned or ran an escort service? (Or, was he a john who liked to use escort services frequently?) And he was engaging in other forms of criminal activity at the same time, such as stealing. I’m so sorry. I hope you didn’t sustain irrecoverable damage from having had such a relationship.
Hi Babs, Sorry to be so late getting back to you.
The latespath was both. In July, 2003 he had his first session with an escort. By the time he died November 1, 2008 he had well over 1000 sessions, that is not a count of individual girls; he had plenty of doubles, triples and more. He actually kept spreadsheets.
He met EscortM in March, 2005 He convinced her to get an apartment with him in January 2006. He stayed there 9 to 5, Monday through Friday, when he wasn’t visiting other gals at their hotel rooms. About 4 months later they/he (there are conflicting ideas, she always took responsibility, as he made sure the apartment was in her name, even though he stole the money to pay for it, but emails indicate otherwise and the appointment sheets I found were in his writing) opened the in-call business. They kept the operation opened for less than a year, due to her health problems. She died in August 2007. While they ran the ‘house’, he would introduce civilian gals EscortM knew in the real world, to the world of escorting; being their first sex for money client.
As I have said before, the things he out and out stole the last week of his life are irreplaceable.
I lose money every day due to the damage he did financially. The lawsuit against the brokerage that accepted his forged papers was 3 years of hell and the hell will never end. Sitting through the federal legal proceeding was something out of Rod Serling’s “Twilight Zone”.
He had no thought of the child he ‘sperm donated’ to. I refuse to call it fathered. The latespath destroyed my son’s legacy from my parents, who financially raised him and doted on.
I spent 33 years in a marriage, albeit in name only since 1986, I had no way out of, because of his threats. His actions over the years proved they were not just empty words. I have good days and dark ones. Writing helps, the pets help. My story is so unreal, it took me a while to find a law firm willing to take on the case.
He was officially diagnose a sociopath by a forensic psychologist, posthumously. His crimes are documented by the brokerage, although they didn’t know it. My mother’s broker played a very large part in all of this as well. He broke the rules, as I was to independently find out, by divulging financial information to someone whose name was not on the account, actually the latespath had no account at all, as well as giving him a form that can only be given to the named client at the request of said client. The form I found in the basement ceiling also had the signature of the of the broker’s supervisor, who also did not verify anything.
With a spath, no matter how careful you are, you can never be sure if all bases are covered, because you have no idea who they are in contact with, nor do you have any idea how the third party will react.
Thanks for giving me the backstory. Wow, I’m so sorry you and your child wound up enduring such mistreatment. Holy cow. Now that he is deceased, I hope you are progressing in your recovery of your physical, mental and financial health.
This brings to mind a concept I came up with a while back, that at this point in time would not be practical (or legal) to actually initiate, but, my idea is that anyone who is found to be a psychopath, formally diagnosed, would be assigned a “wrangler.”
It would sort of like being on permanent parole, except that the “parole officer” always keeps the psychopath in line of sight, plus the psychopath always has an ankle GPS or a chip inserted into their skull, so the wrangler can track their charge’s exact whereabouts, and can tell if if he or she is in the bathroom.
Think of all the new jobs that would generate! It would stimulate the economy! A candidate would have to pass a course of study and testing to earn a license as a “professional psycho-wrangler, first class”. Think of all the crime that would prevent! The job training would include courses in psychology, martial arts, etc., with the bottom line core imperative being, “Anything that comes out of his/her mouth is a lie.” and “Never let the psycho out of your line of sight.”
There would be a rotating shift of “wranglers” for each 8-hour period. No psychopath would ever be alone long enough to do any damage. It would be sort of like being in jail, in a way. Never a free moment.
Yes, its just a fantasy I indulge in. Oh well.
lost: The more of your story, I hear, the more I can’t believe everything that nightmare spath did to you. It is terrible and I hope the law firm can get you safe from all of the harm he has caused.
Babs: Sounds good to me! Spath Wranglers, Inc.
I am lucky. I was born without any money, always worked for non profits, and sure don’t have any now, so spaths have gotten very little of that out of me. Both times I was married, I kept my name, my separate credit cards and a separate bank account. I highly recommend that to anyone. If a man doesn’t accept that a grown woman wants to keep the name she was born with and her own separate identity and money, that is not a man to marry.
People tend to get caretaking from me. Spaths have gotten a few dollars here and there, but not any large amounts. I learned very young that a woman should pretend to have no money even if she does. My father is a gambler, so that may have made me more aware of keeping my money away from potential poaching. I can remember even in my late 20s, telling my Mom she needed to open up a secret savings account. I hope she did, but I doubt it.
This time, the spath is paying ME for his caretaking. More than I would charge a stranger and I get to treat myself to my favorite, expensive gluten free mufflins. LOL.
Hi Lost just to say there’s a no obscenities rule on LF
Thanks but How do I edit it–no edit button exists? It was a quote by a British gal, real name Gaby, note her use of the word ‘mac’ for raincoat. Seems that most people here want ‘all the details’ or take things out of context.
Thanks Fight, If this was a job, I’d still be on my probationary time. I am learning. Had I known, I would have changed a letter to a ‘*’ and ‘sic’ed it. If I have need to use a direct email quote in the future, I will edit as per guide lines.
Lost, I think you should give me this fellow Brit’s contact details and I’ll pop round and give her a good ticking off about her potty mouth 😉
imhope,
I know fight will get back to you,but after reading your post,I just had to comment that NOT ALL MEN are brought up to be deceitful;they’re not given ‘licence’ to mistreat women-to think they are kings to collect their own harem! I know plenty of nice men…unfortunately,I chose to marry the wrong one!In the meantime,many of those nice men found nice wives.It’s just a matter of finding the right one.Because of what we’ve experienced in the “school of hard knocks” and the education we’ve gotten here,we have a better chance next time!
imhope, When I started my sophomore year, one of the priests from ‘our brother school’, came to my school, all girls, to give us young ladies a talk about dating. His words: “the boy will buy you a soda and then spend the rest of the evening trying to squeeze it out of you.”
losteverything: That story instantly made me think of Dana Carvey’s Church Lady on SNL. “Wellll. Isn’t that special?” At that age, what did you think he was talking about? I’m just curious because when such a vague statement is made instead of a real discussion about sexual choices, I wonder what a kid would think. I was lucky. I lived somewhere where full sex education was conducted at school and my mother was also pretty open about sexual choices.
Hi fight, What sex ed? What sex talk? Sex was taboo.
At least in my school, the attitude of the nuns had not changed since the school was founded during the late American Victorian era/gilded age. White gloves were an integral part of the school uniform; we had 6 different unis throughout the school year with matching hats and shoes, mandatory K-12.
What did Father mean about squeezing the soda out of you; never go to a movie with a boy and let him put his arm around your shoulder and pull you towards him. At school dances, the nuns would walk around and if they thought you were dancing too close, would wave a large paper tube (like a mailing tube for a poster or map)between you and your date, telling you to make sure to “leave room for the Holy Spirit”.
Learning to be a grown up ‘lady’, adulthood, consisted of instruction on making sure you turned your rings toward your palm, so the line of your gloves were not broken; that you walked straight, so that your ankles did not turn in when wearing high heels; etc. .
I have no doubt the school was proper before the mid 60s and it certainly changed dramatically in the late 70s. It was the decade in between that it was caught up in a suspended animation. Of course that’s when I was in high school.
Dating followed rules as well, dress/skirt and the boy a tie and jacket; even if you were going sit home at watch TV; if you went out gloves and a hat.
At home sex was ‘no go’. I remember when I first go my period. I came home all upset, 7th grade, and showed my mother my underwear. She tells me ‘that will happen to you from now on’, end of discussion. She then told me to change my clothes, including panties, and we walked to the drug store (my mother never learned to drive), where she bought me ‘personal needs’ and told me the directions were on the box. She also told me to make sure the ‘supplies’ were well hidden in a clothes draw.
I didn’t figure ‘it’ out until biology class, we had a bachelorette, lay teacher for bio. Like Las Vegas, what happened in biology class, stayed in biology class.
By senior year we had ‘it’ pretty much figured out, at least from a girl’s point of view. Rule one, the only rule: never let a boy ‘go all the way’. If you do, you will be marked for life, no one will want you. Don’t ever date any one again, you will ruin his reputation, your’s is destroyed already. Of course there were the no touching, no opened mouth kissing, at the beach always wear a terry cover up jacket and a wrap around.
It was a different time, a different place, with different ways. I read an interview with Cher and her mother, in maybe, ‘People’, and found the quote on the internet: Cher’s mother speaking; “My mom always said that you couldn’t sleep with someone if you didn’t marry him.” That was exactly what I grew up learning that as well: ‘The gift you give your husband on your wedding is your virginity.’ When the latespath took a covert picture of me changing outfits, in my bedroom, through a slightly opened door, I felt I had no choice other than to marry him.
Schools and parents were not prepared to handle the social revolution, teaching post World War 2 values, closed doors, was much safer.
Hi lost:
As I have shared, I was raised in one of the most progressive states. My public schools were similar to community college in other parts of the country. In progressive states, at least during the 70s, we got “down-to-Earth” discussions about all social issues.
I know that religious schools only teach abstinence. I know that it has infiltrated a lot of public schools and they are only allowed to teach abstinence…and it doesn’t work. My parents talked to us about our choices and made it clear that they would rather we know who we were going to marry before having sex with anyone. My father was more punitive and adamant and damaging with his views than my mother. She made sure we knew to check out birth control choices if we made a decision to have sex. I was able to stick with the belief system my mother instilled that waiting for the right person was a good idea….mostly because they moved me to a place with such horrible boys and men, so I lost interest! LOL.
I can’t even imagine what it would have been like to have been educated at a religious school. And to have a male teach the girls seems very strange indeed. Our gym teachers in Jr. High were assigned with teaching us about what the process was when we got our periods, dispelling myths, etc. My Mom was pretty open about it. My mother was raised by an ultra religious mother and an atheist father. Her mother used to terrify her children and make them go tell their father he was going to a place called hell because he didn’t go to church. HE was one of the most morally and ethically outspoken people I have ever known. She was gossipy and pious. My dad’s family was not super religious until my grandma got drawn into evangelism and then they all became insane with the tongues and obnoxious and abusive preaching. They were never like real grandparents. We lived close to them when I was little and they just were not like grandparents. They were actually kind of mean. I think the self-entitled piety taught by evangelism appealed to their egos. Two of their sons, one a high school drop out druggie, became “preachers” and they found that moving to OK was easy pickens’ if they babbled and pretended to heal people. We went with them to many “revivals” and “healings” when we first moved here (my sister and I) and saw nothing but emotional hype and nonsense and quit going. Then, we mostly hid out from the crazies. One “preacher” uncle abused us a lot. He had already molested us when we were little and he was a teen. But, my dad allowed all of his family to tell us horrible things. They would tell us we were going to hell and we were going to get pregnant and be unwed mothers which didn’t happen to any of us. But, most of their boys and girls were unwed parents….because they were taught abstinence.
I have known some progressive people here who escaped the rat cage and escaped the game of religious persecution. And though there are few catholics here, some of them have shared what you have. They were abused, maltreated, and scared in religious schooling. There was no true educational benefit. Just survival of the phoniest and then escape at 18. I can’t imagine. It was bad enough in my religion zealot filled high school here. It was bad enough to be emotionally abused by the faith healers and babblers on holidays and family dinners after we moved here. But, I had already had 16 years of an open and progressive school system so just knew better. My sisters and I just had to try to stay away from the pedophiles at the schools here…something we certainly never heard of where we came from.
I am so sorry your spath husband was able to use your religious indoctrination to abuse you. That is very common. My second husband tried that with me. All he did is push me away from false prophets and into secular humanism where my choices, beliefs, and ethics are cherished and not abusive and phony. Because humanists speak for themselves as humans, it is difficult for one to abuse using an invisible being who will light you on fire someday!
Lost, you just keep sharing here and you are going to get it out. That is what I do. I share about the various spaths I have encountered in my life and hope to continue to purge it. That, along with books that teach me I deserve never to be abused again, and some of the articles here, have been helpful. People like you and a few others have also been very encouraging to me as well as helping me to see I am not alone in what multiple situations involving crazy making spaths — groups and organized groups. I am breaking free of letting others define me…past or present. I think you are, too.