(The article below is copyrighted © 2012 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns is for convenience’s sake and not meant to imply that females aren’t capable of exhibiting the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
What does it mean to say that someone has sociopathic tendencies, versus full-blown sociopathy, and does the difference even matter?
The simple answer is that someone with sociopathic tendencies will exhibit sociopathic behaviors and attitudes sometimes, while elsewhere he may seem to possess (and, in fact, may possess) a somewhat genuine (if limited and unreliable) capacity and desire to respect others.
In contrast, the full-blown sociopath’s respect for others, when apparently evident, is never really deeply genuine, but rather driven more by expediency or, more specifically, by the lack of any immediate opportunity to benefit from disrespecting or exploiting others.
Another way to say it is that the full-blown sociopath will almost always capitalize on perceived opportunities to exploit others for his own gain, whereas an individual with “sociopath tendencies” is likely to be somewhat less predictably exploitive in his interpersonal relationships.
In my experience, to identify that you are involved with a partial versus full-blown sociopath is not grounds for optimism. So long as sociopathic tendencies are present, their “quantity” seems to me to matter little. In the end, the individual’s prognosis is the same—hopeless. He is no less treatable or curable for the comparatively inconstant expression of his sociopathy.
In some respects it may be more disconcerting to be involved with a partial sociopath than a full-blown one. This is because the partial sociopath’s seeming capacity to be a “real,” sometimes (if selectively) attached human being can serve as a sort of tease—one finds the seemingly less exploitive aspect of his nature even more confusingly impossible to reconcile with the more exploitive one. One seizes on his capacity for “selective humanity,” misjudging it for his potential for ongoing, reliable empathy and respect for others.
Of course this is a pipe-dream, because the partial sociopath’s capacity for “sensitivity,” perhaps even for certain forms of loyalty, is ever-presently compromised by the underlying tug, and ultimate grip, of his underlying sociopathic orientation. He will inevitably, with utter certainty, drift back into his more exploitive mode and exhibit again, at some point in time, the shocking markers of his sociopathy—his defects of empathy in the context of his audaciously violating behaviors.
I want to stress this very carefully: to the extent that someone has sociopathic tendencies, implying that his sociopathy doesn’t necessarily encompass his “whole character” (as in the case of the full-blown sociopath), this is something like comparing two very dangerous, ultimately untreatable cancerous malignancies—the first hasn’t perhaps “metastasized” fully, but is definitely malignant with absolutely no cure and no chance of meaningful remission; whereas the latter shows perhaps evidence of a global invasion, i.e. “sociopathy run uncontrollably wild.”
I’ve worked for several years with a client I regard as having clear-cut sociopathic tendencies and find her to be among the more baffling clients I’ve worked with. There is the strangest, most jarring mix of humanity in her personality, a capacity for generosity, yet alternating with a historical pattern of cunning, lying behaviors and a chilling capacity to comfortably disown remarkable abdications of responsibility.
She has exhibited these dizzying, confusing qualities in her relationship with me. She has lied to my face countless times and produced fantastic, absurd, and obviously specious explanations for behaviors that someone fully unsociopathic would feel anxious and embarrassed to assert. When confronted with her dissimulation, she conveys (and seems to feel) little to no shame, just the knee-jerk inclination to perpetuate and elaborate the deceptions.
She is opportunistic and someone who has “worked the system” in a variety of unethical ways. Ultimately she lacks either the willingness, or capacity, to truly own the varieties of ethically dubious, sometimes alarmingly irresponsible behaviors that continue to sabotage her otherwise seemingly considerable potential.
She is a complex person, a very attractive and seductive individual, and I believe she possesses a dimension within her characterized by seemingly real generosity. At the same time, she can be shamelessly manipulative and deceptive, and can be “counted on” ultimately to be only “unreliable.” She seems destined to leave those in her life periodically stunned by the betrayal of their faith and trust in her.
She will never change. There is a sociopathic element in her character that I believes explains these patterns and that leaves her, in my view, permanently untrustworthy.
I’m interested in readers’ feedback on this subject.
Stevie, mew boy, your C UNNING TURN OF PHRASE always amazes me—Quote!
“a chilling capacity to comfortably disown remarkable abdications of responsibility.”
What better quote to describe a psychopath I can not imagine in my wildest dreams! Wonderful. and bears repeating.
“a chilling capacity” A capacity that CHILLS the blood of those who truly know them and waht they are able to do without remorse.
“to comfortably disown ” To look you directly in the eye and even with evidence of the broken promises on the table in front of them, of evidence of the beaten and neglected child DENY DENY DENY that they had anything to do with it.
“remarkable abdications of responsibility.” UNBELIEVABLE abdications of the things that humans should be responsible for, like feeding and housing themselves, like taking care of their children and I could go on but I digress…or is it RANT?
You also say:
I believe she possesses a dimension within her characterized by seemingly real generosity. At the same time, she can be shamelessly manipulative and deceptive, and can be “counted on” ultimately to be only “unreliable.” ”
While this woman may SEEM to possess a “real generosity” I could counter, Steve, with a paraphrase of Bob Hare’s quote about “the inmates all asked me for money, a loan, and the way I would later tell who the REAL psychopath was was he was the one I gave it to.” In other words, even Bob Hare fell for the con of “seemingly real” emotions from the psychopath.
While I TOTALLY believe like Dr. Simon Baron-Cohen in his wonderful book about empathy that we humans possess varying levels of empathy from Zero to much much more. As Baron Cohen points out, the lower levels of an autistic person would possess ZERO empathy, which he termed Zero +, and the lowest level of a psychopath would also possess Zero empathy, however Baron Cohen called that ZERO-NEGATIVE because while the highly autistic person with ZERO empathy would not be likely to try to manipulate or hurt you, and certainly wouldn’t have any duping delight in hurting you, the psychopath with zero empathy would ENJOY HURTING YOU, Would SEEK OUT people to hurt.
So, HOW do we “rate” psychopathy? Like Bob Hare’s Psychopath Check List-Revised –by their “externally visible manifestations of attitude” and their “observable behavior” —- or do we rate them by the episodes of physical violence or lack of violence ?
Do we rate them on the amount of money they con from others?
Do we measure and test the amount of empathy that they may have?
Do we make fMRI scans of their brains and give that a score?
I think you answer your own questions about her very very well, Steve:
” She seems destined to leave those in her life periodically stunned by the betrayal of their faith and trust in her.”
Many new bloggers here come here asking if He is a “real sociopath? because he does X Y or Z which is a good thing” Hoping of course that if he isn’t a “real” sociiopath because he has SOME good qualities…like he isn’t hitting her ALL the time, some days he even brings home food for the house, or buys diapers for the baby…maybe even there are some days he doesn’t use drugs or force her to have sex with his entire motorcycle gang so maybe he’s not a REAL sociopath? (a little hyperbole here) but the new bloggers are STRETCHING for any indication that there may be HOPE for this person with “psychopathic tendencies”
I think this article is a wonderful WONDERFUL addition to the LF archives because the bottom line is THAT IT DOESN’T MATTER IF THEY RATE A 20 OR A 30 on the PCLR—they are TOXIC and those behaviors will not change. While at some times a person with a “lower level” of psychopathic traits may exhibit some empathy for someone, or act generously to someone it isn’t going to mean that they won’t continue to act in ways that are also psychopathic. Bottom line THEY AIN’T GONNA CHANGE.
SOLUTION TO DEALING WITH THESE PEOPLE: NO CONTACT, get away, as far away as possible. and STAY AWAY.
Thank you for this great article, Steve.
Ox Drover….
what can I say?
thank you so much for your always “reliably” insightful, extremely incisive and deeply generous feedback.
Thank you, Steve for this article. I have been struggling with this exact issue. While learning about psychopathy and reading the stories here, it seems as though the person I was involved with has partial traits and behaviors….the source of my inability to get over it and really believe what he is. I made the mistake of responding when he recently contacted me and feel myself relapsing.
All the “anniversaries” of the relationship are occurring now and over the next few months. Got any suggestions on staying strong?
Steve,
I commend you for taking on this difficult subject. I’ve only recently been able to wrap my head around it a bit more.
Dr. Cleckley, in Mask of Sanity, describes exactly this conundrum. He was continually being convinced by his spathy patients that they had finally seen the light, they were cured. He described their insights as deep and even more self-aware than the average person. These people could really talk the talk.
So he would release them and inevitably, sometimes in a matter of hours, they would be up to their same old tricks and be brought back to his hospital. Sometimes this cycle would repeat over and over.
I used to think that he was being conned by these people who could parrot back his own words to him, though they did not have any clue what the words really meant. I used to think that they were really adept at figuring out what he wanted to hear and trick him by repeating his own words to him.
I no longer think that is the case. In fact, I think that they really DO get their disorder. And, like Sam Vaknin, they DO have great insight into their behavior. They just don’t care. It’s how they are, it’s how they have always been and they have no desire to change. What they lack, is imagination. They can’t imagine that they could be any better than they are. I also believe that changing, to them, means admitting that they aren’t already perfect. They just can’t do that. It’s too painful.
Before I knew she was a spath, I noted that my sister was extremely comfortable being selfish. Whereas, I’m not. So I asked her, “How do you do it? Teach me to be more selfish.” She said, “I don’t know, I’ve just always been selfish, it’s just the way I am.” Another time, she said, “Skylar, it’s ok to be evil, everyone is evil.” WTF?
I have to add though, that there are still some debatable topics here. For example, what about the borderlines and narcissists who do eventually “grow up” and become more compassionate?
And there is the question of how much a person can really “understand” what they can’t feel?
To say that one understands something intellectually, is not the same as understanding what one has experienced. Spaths, because of their lack of feeling, lack experience.
These people will leave us perpetually confused.
I had a spath parrot back the topic of gratitude to me. I also heard him talking on the phone, using my words on the topic of humility. As it turns out, he was talking to another, bigger spath! So I don’t know who he was trying to impress or con. Probably, me. This person has neither gratitude nor humility. He has no idea what they feel like. His behavior on a daily basis proved that.
Taking Stock – Birthday season a good time to do it.
I’m a 50 year old woman four years out of a six year relationship with a Psychopath who bought a house with me and never contributed money for the mortgage, insurance, taxes, utilities or groceries, slowly drained my resources, managed to get me into debt, & in one fell swoop cleaned out my bank account the rest of the way & left me. He moved to Mexico without warning or ever looking back. I have never talked to him since. I saw him once in court when he sued me for half the house. He was like a stranger. Not even somebody that I used to know. I was at the brink of ceding custody to my ex husband. I fought suicidal tendencies constantly. The judge wouldn’t listen or look at my proof of the financial abandonment on his part of the property and gave him half. I went home and had to seriously think about staying alive. A month later my hair started falling out due to the stress of the situation.
This is me. Look at me now. I am finally claiming bankruptcy. I’m left with a shaken confidence, up & down motivation, & still a considerable amount of anger when I allow myself to dwell on it. I’ve spent 20 months in the last 48 lying down quite frankly. In fact it took me over a year to really just be able to get out of bed. The house is now foreclosed. I want to move on. I’m glad I’m out of the house. I want to be complete again. I really don’t know how to pick up the pieces. In 12 step programs they say one day at a time. Well, in spath programs they should use “one piece at a time.” I’ve tried to pick them up all at once & they slip out of my grasp & land with a crash of even more pieces.
I know that there was nothing I did or didn’t do right or wrong to cause this. But if things happen for a reason I am awaiting that little bit of enlightenment. It’s a random universe and I got hit by a stray meteor that I just didn’t see coming. Am I more guarded. Definitely. Am I less trusting – maybe not. Am I more aware that I am me without giving a thing to anyone or having a thing to my name. Yes. Still here. So far, thank you Donna & Love Fraud members. I still crave to trust human nature. I search for a trusting soul. But my eyes are open. I try and see things for what they are with out judgement or anger towards others or myself. I know there is no changing anyone. I still harbor hatred in my soul for a person that can inflict the type of destruction we discuss on this site and that may be there for a while.
1. Denial: First I denied that it was really ending or that he would ever do such things to me and would come to his senses and return. He didn’t and he did do those things.
2. Anger: Then I got angry for a really really long time. Anger was part and parcel who I was. I was so angry I was paralyzed by it and could do little more than sleep. I stopped caring. I stopped crying. I was astonished by the things I thought I wanted to do in retaliation. I was exhausted by all the anger. I was uninsured so medical care and prescription medicines were beyond my reach. I hadn’t a clue as to who this person was.
3. Depression: Then I got depressed. Numb. Dumfounded. Catatonic. I stayed alive because I had to for my kids. If they weren’t here I don’t know I would have made it thru this time. I didn’t care that I wasn’t working. I didn’t care that my money was gone. I didn’t care that I couldn’t pay my utility bills. I didn’t care that I was hungry or that I was tired. I stayed in my room awake mostly now for days and days and days. Rarely eating. My girlfriend would have a plate of food and I would eat her leftovers sometimes. I knew she was doing this so I would eat something. I did crosswords and read the paper every day. And I just lay there waiting to die of old age. Hasn’t happened yet btw.
4. Acceptance: And then I was at the bottom below where I started from 20 years ago. And I have to wonder how I got there but I accept that I am there. I accept everything I just wrote. I accept that it is up to me again to do something. And I start & stop in fits of doing it. I’m starting over at 50. Well, I thought, I’m 50 whether I start over again or not. I am starting over again now that there is nothing else left to do. If it is difficult for an 18 year old to decide what they want to be, it feels nearly impossible to figure that out at 50.
5. Growth?: I am learning to be generous with myself and not just others. I am learning to accept generosity. I am relearning that it is up to me to move forward. Let go. (never one of my strong points) No one. No one can or will do it for me. I am learning that its okay to let someone else pay the bill sometimes whether I can or not. I am learning that I like being without a man but I do love men. I am learning to date men, not invest my heart and soul into them.
6. Moving on?: Many attempts so far. I wonder if it’s possible to put this entire thing behind me. Maybe that’s the wrong goal. Perhaps this will never be behind me. It will always be a part of me damn it. I was hoping but struggling because maybe “behind me” is unrealistic. Beside me maybe? I love this site. It helped me understand that this wasn’t about me at all. There are people who don’t operate as I do and won’t do the things that I would do and that there are people who will do things I couldn’t imagine doing to others in my wildest rages. But those people can’t define me unless I let them. I can’t ever let them do such a thing again. I have to change that part of me. But I want to do it and not lose my core self. I want to do it but still see a little good in anyone, trusting others but trusting myself too and acting on that part of me.
8. Bargaining: This stage came late for me. I am now hoping in the recesses of my mind that I will wake up in 2002 before I met the spath & it has all been a nightmare. Not happening so far. But if I could only go back again knowing what I know now. If time is nothing but a human construct & everything just may be happening at once I am looking eagerly for the door to the continuum. I will share it here on LoveFraud if I can find it.
7. Forgiveness?: Wow, this is the hardest for me. Mostly to forgive myself for being stupid. You can spath the perfection out of the girl but you can’t take away the girl’s perfectionist beliefs. Forgiving others? Something I read the other day: Never forget three kinds of people: People who left you in your difficult times; People who helped you in your difficult times; & People who put you in those difficult times. Okay forget & forgive two different concepts. I have to work on that some more. Is this crime forgivable? Really, truly? I was murdered. Everything I worked for, dreamt of, earned, loved, gave, & wanted was murdered in cold blood with malice aforethought. How do you forgive someone on death row for your murder? Is it possible? Why do I want to? This is some deep deep stuff I don’t know how to work.
This I know for sure Oprah: I want to be me. I want to let someone love me. I want to love myself. I want to love others. And I will one day when it is time. Right now I’m seeing what happiness can be when it comes from me and not outside influences and that is very very important and the key to a lot of these things that randomly happened to me.
The unseen meteor that hit me in the head left a crater the size of the moon, but time is smoothing it, filling it in with fine sand, and it is beginning to reflect some light around me. I want more light. I want time to bring all of us peace. Love to bring us comfort. Happiness to light our way forward. & may all the psychopaths die in hell. Cheers & here’s to year number 51! Cant wait to see how it goes”… xxx Lillian
The reason I call my mother a sociopath vs. the fact that I call my younger sister a psychoath is that, at times, my mother actually displays feelings of empathy for others. I believe they’re genuine feelings, but who knows for sure.
When the mask has dropped for both of them, they are equally hard, unfeeling, insensitive, and laughing at the misfortunes of others.
Which is the true display of what the person is? What seems to be genuine or what is revealed when the surface is peeled away? I’m not talking about the bogus charm etc. I am talking about what is appearing in seemingly candid moments and thus could possibly be the real thing.
I swear sometimes that my mother is human. I think I’ve seen a little real love and care coming from her, particularly towards my son. Even she has expressed dismay and confusion over not understanding my sister’s attitude and actions.
This begs the question – has my mother done a better job at recognizing that displays of empathy will win her brownie points with the onlookers and thus is perhaps more dangerous than my sister, who couldn’t care less about others and doesn’t hide that fact?
I could overthink this except that I have had no contact with both for about four years now and life is good. 🙂
But I would like to know what the others think might be going on here.
Steve:
Excellent post. On another thread I was just recounting my experience with a colleague who fell into this category of having sociopathic tendencies. Your description of your most perplexing patient “She is a complex person, a very attractive and seductive individual, and I believe she possesses a dimension within her characterized by seemingly real generosity. At the same time, she can be shamelessly manipulative and deceptive, and can be “counted on” ultimately to be only “unreliable.” She seems destined to leave those in her life periodically stunned by the betrayal of their faith and trust in her.”
This description applied to the male colleague I recently had my encounter with. The man I encountered was very handsome, very charismatic, and definitely played the sexual attraction card. And the generosity he showed me -offering me his place as a crash pad when I was in his town on upcoming family business was certainly unexpected and generous. However, his subsequently saying he’d call to firm things up and not following through, telling me to call at particular times and not picking up has led me to see how unreliable he is and how much chaos he was causing in my life. As you so aptly put it, he can be counted on to be unreliable.
I’m so attuned to the signs a full-blown sociopath puts out I let my guard down on the signals put out by someone with sociopathic tendencies. Now I see that there’s a new game I’ve got to get up to speed with since I – unfortunately – am going to be working with this individual for quite a while.
Thanks Steve. Nice to read you.
“Selective Humanity”.
That is a very great way to express it.
Thanks for instilling some common sense in my head today.
Dupey
Hey Matt! There’s a blast from the past. I hope you don’t mind my asking, but last time I read from you, you’d met a really great guy. Are you two still together? (If not, please take me to Greece on your next trip. :)) How are you? I will never forget how much you helped me back in the day with writing a letter to my senator re the spath. It helped me so much with closure.
I’ll try this again, I lost a long post to you Matt.
Remember the “Tion” rules (boundaries you had) for dating folks?
Well I think you need to expand on those boundaries a bit. The “tions” apply to the LOWER LEVELS OF PSYCHOPATHS but you are going to also be dealing with the SNAKES IN SUITS like your latest encounter.
If you have Not read SNAKES IN SUITS you need (you of ALL people) NEED to read it.
My boundaries have expanded and expanded but yet are quite simple.
There is an INNER CIRCLE OF PEOPLE I WOULD TRUST WITH MY LIFE. This circle is very small and is only people who are TRIED And TRUE and have stood the TESTS of TIME and FORTUNE. I would ask any favor of them and extend any favor of them, including I would lay down my life for them.
The requirements for entering this circle are HONESTY, not situational honesty but complete honesty. It is RESPONSIBILITY and doing what you say you will do when you say you will do it, not making promises you won’t or can’t keep. COMPASSION for others and COURTESY as well. GOOD SENSE as well. KINDNESS to others. COURAGE to stand for what you know is RIGHT and WILLINGNESS to do it.
Once someone BETRAYS me no matter what the relationship they had with me, or how much DNA we share or how much I love them, they are OUT.
Now that doesn’t mean we may not have disagreements or even become angry with each other but always within the scope of being kind to each other, accepting loving rebuke for our failures, and being willing to be honest even if we know we may hurt each other’s feelings by doing so.
Then there is the outer circle of people I know and deal with in my life—-and in general haven’t seen anything about them to make me mistrust them, but haven’t had a long history with them either, so I am somewhat cautious about them,, and don’t give them any opportunity to stab me iin the back or use any information they might have against me….this would include people I work with. I am courteous with them but not overly familiar.
The extreme outer circle of folks are those I know are dishonest, thieves, or otherwise someone I do NOT want to have any dealings with….but in fact, am REQUIRED legally to do so.
Those people I always do things in WRITING and/or have a RELIABLE WITNESS present when dealing with them so that they cannot present me as doing something or saying something I didn’t.
If you are going to have to work with this guy, I suggest that you from here on out be polite with him, friendly with him even, but very PROFESSIONAL but NOT overly familiar as you allowed yourself to be dragged into his web. However, I would be very careful to not let him KNOW that you think he is a snake…just EASE backwards in the relationship.
Good luck in dealing with him and CAUTION is the word! It is a big part of my life now. Going into the next parole hearing in a few months.