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By | October 10, 2016 46 Comments

Sociopaths cannot love, they just want to win

In this “Letter to Lovefraud” video, I explain the sad truth about sociopaths in romantic relationships. A Lovefraud reader writes that her ex-boyfriend said that he missed her, he loved her, he changed. But when the reader went to see him, the guy humiliated her.

The fact is, the guy is a sociopath, and sociopaths cannot love. He concocted the story to deceive the reader, just so he could hurt her. For him, the entire episode was a big win.

The reader, however, can win in the end, by recognizing what her sociopathic ex really is, and eliminating him from her life.

 

Posted in: Donna Andersen

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Hope Springs

Classic.

SPs pretend that they are moving on…which they cannot even do.

They only seek to re-abuse their victims.

SPs are not normal. We ‘feel’ that something is off about them. That is our innate instinct telling us so.

You cannot be their friend, you cannot be their spouse, you cannot even be their child nor their parent (once they are adults). You have to completely detach yourself and have no contact. Forever.

dorothy2

I think that when someone says that a sociopath can not love, it’s probably true in the normal and accepted concept of the word “love”. I also think that word means different things to different people and is expressed differently by different people.
It might be helpful to include a definition of what love looks like and how sociopaths/ psychopaths do not measure up, which I know you have in the past, but examples here.
I think and have observed that the way these people interpret other people and their actions is VERY subjective and warped but they are unable or unwilling to view things differently and more objectively. It’s their way or the highway. To challenge their thought process is futile and insulting to them
Their warped views and reality are the source of, excuse for and motivation towards ALL of their self-justified hurtful behavior, a lot of which is based in retaliation and revenge.

slimone

dorothy2,

I think it is absolutely true that disordered people cannot love. Not by any definition. They only express their ‘love’ in such a way, and for only the period of time, that suits them. This is not love.

I believe love requires a person to be able to behave lovingly toward another, over a period of time, and consistently, with a commitment toward mutual satisfaction with all aspects of the relationship.

Anyone can express their interest, tell someone they love them. But only a person of conscience can, with consistency, behave over and over and over again in a loving way toward their partner.

Disordered people can be skilled in mimicking romantic love. But over time none of them can consistently behave with kindness, with the intention of preserving the relationship, and with ongoing concern for the well-being of their partner.

They always, ALWAYS, fail at this. They don’t care about ‘the partner’, or ‘the relationship’. They only love getting what they want, when they want it, in a quantity and quality that satisfies THEM. Period.

Hope Springs

Perfectly put.

regretfullymine

and yet..they say ALL the right words..with dew in their eyes, a gentle touch on your face, your arm, your body..and you just want to MELT into those eyes..in public, he’d tell others how much he loved, cherished me, I was the best thing he had found, etc..as time, marriage, kids, farmwork went on..all those loving words, gestures died away..replaced by harsh judging, criticisms, nit-picking over small matters, name calling..all that sweet,lovingness just faded away..it was all lies, I was his ‘meal ticket’ to a ‘normal life’..

slimone

Oh Yes, regretfullymine….They tell everyone how amazing it is that you have met, they get your coat when you say you are cold, but only when people are around. Once the love-bombing phase is done they are privately abusive; they completely set the stage for your confusion and they go in for the kill.

I was also in the position of giving all 3 of the spaths I ‘dated’ the appearance of a normal life. I was stable, employed, owned a home, and had strong ties to my friends. They used me for money and appearance.

dorothy2

Yes……get get get not give get give get give get. They only “give” if it gets them what THEY are trying to get.
I just keep wondering if in their version of reality, something they experience IS what they interpret as love, subjectively. Just one of those questions that still circles in my thoughts from time to time.
When it’s all said and done it really doesn’t matter to me what Spathtards reality is or isn’t but I can’t stop wondering, more out of curiosity? Like that feeling you have when you see something new and odd, you just keep trying to figure out what it is but all you have to interpret it with are things you already understand. I will never understand “them” entirely because I just can’t. Sometimes I think I do but, nope!

Hope Springs

I too do a lot of ‘wondering’ what THEY really think and feel. I can’t seem to help myself, as the SP is my own son.

Does HE really think that he can love? I know that HE tries to convince others that he can. Of course, I see it totally differently. I can see that HE cannot love in any sense of the word, as we know it. I believe that HE is convinced that HE can love, and feel it too.

Spathtards…sorry, lol…I can’t help myself. That really is humorous. THEY are the truly ‘mentally retarded’ ones. THEY are the ones who really are…not the Downs syndrome people.

dorothy2

Bev, I can not even begin to imagine what it would be like to have your own child be one of them. What a delema

dorothy2

Oops wasn’t done there Bev! A painful delema I’m sure.

Hope Springs

Yes, mine is a long sordid horrible 34 year story of not knowing what was wrong with SON, as I call him now.

I think many parents of SPs wear those rose colored glasses, because that is what a parent is ‘supposed’ to do, right? Love their child and emotionally support them no matter what? How can I (they) when my (their) child is a SP? How can I (they) turn a blind eye to the pathological lies and destruction that SPs can and do cause?

I, for one, cannot. Not me. I won’t. As difficult as it is in this world that we live in, I have gone no contact. It has not been easy, but I can live in peace, without all of the stress and hurt that SON causes.

Cheers and thank you 🙂

NotWhatHeSaidofMe

dorothy2 and slimone
If there is no one around, does a sociopath self reflect on their feelings of love?

The ONLY time that “love” exists for a sociopath is in the presence of a audience. A sociopath knows that others are motivated by love and that they are NOT motivated by love. The only reason and the only time to refer to love is when that sociopath seeks to con/dupe/scam. When alone with themselves, a sociopath is NOT using a different meaning or a variation of a definition, in the absence of someone to dupe, the emotion does not exist at all in the world view of a sociopath.

imho of course.

Hope Springs

IMHO as well.

They do not know love and they cannot have nor feel it.

They resent others who can.

slimone

NWHSOM,

I wholeheartedly agree. There may be ‘reflection’ on what their next ‘action’ will be to obtain something they want. But there is zero personal reflection, or reflection (as we experience) of their own emotional life, their actions and the effects, etc….

Just plotting and scheming is what they do when they are alone. Or binging on something to pass the time until they can ‘go into action’.

slimone

NWHSOM,

I think your observation about the audience is also spot on. They don’t ‘act’ when they are alone. They act their chosen part when there are those around to witness it and be influenced by it.

Aware

I’m new here and need to share some of my story in order for me to feel better. I’ve been a mess since I left him for good in January, I was a mess the whole 18 months we were together. Doesn’t seem much better without him although I know it takes time.
The night we met I was spellbound, he is extremely handsome and the most masculine/take charge type of man I’ve ever been with. I thought I struck gold and was on a natural high for the first year. I kept pushing the intuition thing away, I pushed it out of my mind, he was my knight in shining amour even if I had to push my gut feelings away and ignore the MANY red flags. After I was arrested….yes arrested for assaulting him his mother told me he was diagnosed with BPD when he was 21 yrs old, he neglected to inform me, I even asked him a few times if he got a diagnosis when he was hospitalized for mental health issues before we met.
Bottom line is he lied about everything from day one and when I
I started confronting him about his lies and he started sloppy cheating on me with both men and women!!!

What was I thinking?
How did I freaking fall in love with this piece of crap?
Don’t I love myself enough?
All I can say is the intensity was real,he was a ball of fire and I melted around him but I’m alone now, working on feeling my feelings and LISTENING to my intuition. Im so glad I found Love fraud, I need support.

slimone

Aware,

This website has so many informative and validating articles, as well as amazing and supportive people. This place literally saved my sanity.

I am so sorry you are in the initial throes of betrayal and sadness. It seems like it is the most difficult part of the healing process; the time when we are most likely to re-establish contact, or try and get revenge, etc…

The key to moving forward is to stop any impulse to ‘set the record straight’, or explain to the disordered person what you are going through. You will read about No Contact a lot if you google how to get out of an abusive or toxic relationship. And I will say from experience that if you don’t have any legal reason to have any contact that it is the BEST chance of regaining your joy, clarity, peace, and stability.

Slim

Hope Springs

As always, I agree slimone.

No contact is the only way for true happiness and peace.

dorothy2

Bev, Aware and all….no contact is absolutely the only way to remove the rose colored glasses, see the truth and walk/ run away for good. Unfortunately it’s almost impossible to do until you are a quivering puddle of left over you. You here it’s what you need to do, over and over and over and it IS exactly the truth but man is it not what you are going to do until you are “there”. Clear as glass to me now but I couldn’t go NC until I did.
Same was true for seeing that I really was addicted to the Spathtard and all that went along with it….which was a LOT. Many layers to how we get hooked and stay hooked but basically it’s because it felt so damned GOOD………at first.
Bev, glad you like “Spathtard”. He went from “honey” and “sweetheart” to “Spathtard” when I finally went NC, the spell began to wear off, I came out of the trance and kicked the spath habit. It doesn’t even seem real or like it happened now and I feel nothing but repulsion towards him. It’s just amazing to me now to think about how hooked I was….on him? Surreal.

Aware

Thank you Slim,
Everything you said is spot on. I’m just looking forward to a day where I don’t want to talk with him or to get revenge. I fantasize about revenge but know his life is so chaotic and miserable already, he’s gonna end up doing himself in by all of the bad choices he makes. I’m mad but I feel sorry for that freak at the same time, I believe he cant help himself.

slimone

You know Aware, I think fantasizing about revenge is pretty Ok. Most of us have, did, or still are. The key is NOT to act on it now. You are too vulnerable, and could end up having the whole thing backfire.

I had MAJOR thoughts of revenge: Billboards, going to his workshop and ‘outing’ him, etc…

But after a time (and it was quite a while) I just DID NOT CARE one single iota. Really. No feeling toward him at all. First I felt such pain, despair, and depression. Hard to believe I can see him now and feel ZERO.

But it took absolutely no contact to get to this point. At first even someone talking about him would make me feel so hurt and SCARED. Scared that someone could turn my whole world to crap.

And you may be right that he cannot help himself. This is an ongoing debate here on LF. What I believe is they can ‘help themselves’ in the moment, maybe to stop doing something for the time being. But in the long run they cannot stop being a sociopath any more than anyone else with a mental disorder can simply stop that disease. In the end they always engage in manipulation, lying, and sadism.

Hope Springs

It is impossible to feel sorry for these types…

Apparently socio/psychopathy is not a ‘mental illness’ like, say, schizophrenia is.

In that these types engage in manipulation, lying, deceit, and sadism, how can anyone excuse or pity that, no matter what?

Aware

Bev,
“In that these types engage in manipulation, lying, deceit, and sadism, how can anyone excuse or pity that, no matter what?’

Because that’s how they function, its their first reaction, I don’t think they have the brain power to decipher what’s right/wrong in the moment. They are impulsive and don’t think like normal people. I still say they are miserable when alone, without an audience.

dorothy2

Aware, I know that the waking up phase of one of these encounters is, or can be, brutally painfull. There are lots of bitter pills to swallow including seeing things about ourselves that we might not have wanted to see, admit, etc.. BUT, you will come out on the other side of this and be grateful you saw it for what it isn’t sooner rather than later, no matter how long you were in it.
Just please know that as much as you hurt now, you will get through this and that the people here will help you through that process.
Hang in there Aware!

Aware

Thank you Dorothy2,
I appreciate your support and know I will be ok as long as I stay away and focus on myself, not that freak. I have really bad days where I think about him constantly but as long as I stay connected and get support I should be better off than I was before I met him. I have been reading EVERYTHING I can get my eyes on:)its making sense finally.

dorothy2

Aware,
Like I said, once your eyes are opened to the truth nothing will be the same. I think it’s hard to come to grips with in the after phase because you are no longer in their grips. The spell starts fading as your eyes open wider and wider in disbelief and shock. Now you are back to “normal” and can’t believe what you had become and experienced under their spell. It’s like being in a mad, wild drunk and hearing what you did the next day or like they hooked strings to you and became the puppet master of you.
It was you dancing at the end of the strings but the rational part of you was switched off.
I think they tap into our subconscious and take it on some crazy indulgent ride. That part of us is always there but we normally are able to balance or “control” it with our conscious mind and exersize good judgement.
I know that Spathtard tapped into a very primal wound and need of mine, literally the very first night I was with him. It’s clear as day to me now and it was my unfulfilled need as a baby to be held and belong to someone. I can remember exactly what he did and said and remember having that feeling like a dog when it hears a strange sound and cocks it’s head. Like…” huh???? that’s weird”! But I was also immediately hooked at a very deep level and he played me like a fiddle! The rest was history and seems like a dream (nightmare) to me now.
Our subconscious is so strong, and really, can be very vulnerable to manipulation if it hasn’t been fully seen and understood.
I used to think and insist that I really did love him but really, it was just baby Dorothy addicted to getting a primal, unfulfilled need met and not wanting to loose that feeling of being wanted. He knew exactly which buttons to push to keep baby Dorothy dancing at the end of those strings but it was all an illusion, a mirage that evaporated.
That was my bitter pill to swallow, and it was very painful then, but now it’s ok. I’ve seen what I needed to see and I do feel like it was important for me to see this about myself. I had glimpses before Spathtard but never a full understanding of the roll that unresolved part of my past was playing in my life.
I don’t think I will ever give him credit or thanks for his roll in all of it but I am pretty close to being able to say that I’m glad it happened.

Aware

Dorathy2,
I get it about our childhood wounds and trying to fill a void, its like going grocery shopping while hungry, I met freako when I was hungry for affection and love and settled. I thought I had worked most of my childhood wounds through and accepted having a mother like I do, evidently not.
I too am not at the point of giving him credit for showing me (unconsciously)the light.
As far as the puppet master stuff I see what he did to me now, I was arrested (first for me)for assaulting him in my front yard. I had warned him that if he lied to me again I would leave him, well I’m sure you already know…he lied the night I was arrested. The following day in court I was taken aside by a court social worker and told” stay away from him, you’ve been arrested and this is just the beginning if you stay with him”. She wouldn’t say anymore probably due to privacy and the law. Ive since found out hes been arrested 12 times, of course he neglected to tell me about 10 of his arrests.
Toward the end he was scaring me by the things he said while having sex, strange stuff to say to the woman you “LOVE SO MUCH”. I remember asking him a couple of times if he had ever slept with a man, he denied it. Its funny how we know before we know because eventually I saw his text to his male lover saying the same crap he said to me, word for word I kid you not! I made sure to tell his mommy, mean I know, but those two freaks are mean. Is it me or are these people attached to the hip to one of their parents? He told me on our second date that he was a mamas boy, I thought oh cool he loves his mom, boy was I misled. His mom listened to our conversations and when she missed part of one she asked him and HE TOLD HER WORD FOR WORD! I’m so happy to be away from him but I cant lie, I miss his hugs we used to spoon on the couch for an hour or so a couple of times a week :(. I bought a body pillow but its not cutting it :).

Hope Springs

Wow, Aware…love your post.

Is it just me or are these people attached at the hip to one of their parents…omg.

I am the mother of ‘one’ of these ‘people’. Perhaps if I was in denial, or ‘one’ myself, that might be the case. SON, as I refer to ‘him’ would have it just that way, if it up to ‘him’. However, I live in reality and am completely sane and can see what and who SON is. ‘They’ do, however, seem very much to need ‘parental cover’ so that they look and appear normal to others. So that others do not think that there is something very off and/or wrong with ‘them’.

Great observation. 🙂

dorothy2

Aware! Wow. You could be me in what you just said here! Amazing! I thought the same things about him being “close” to his mother? Well, lol, he lived in her basement! I’m soooooo embarrassed! Is that not the reddest flag in the world? An adult “man” living in his mother’s basement!? All SO clear to me now but I was almost instantly stunned/ hooked! Big huge cuddler! Hooked I tell you! Baby Dorothy was purring like a kitten in that big lug’s arms. He might as well drugged me.
But yes, this mother thing is huge in the land of Spathdom and they are a symbiotic/ parasitic unit. Sick disordered mother creates and enables baby Spathtard big big big time. Just a sickening emotionaly incestous mess. Blech! ;-0~~~~

dorothy2

Sorry Bev! Present company excluded!
😊

Hope Springs

Lol…no problem dorothy2…

I can totally understand how a such a messed up mother could enable such a ‘child’…and ‘they’ are always children, for like, EVER.

🙂

Jan7

Hi Aware, glad you researched the truth which lead you to Lovefruad. This is a wonderful site with a library full of info to help you heal.

On top of what Donna stated about the emotional bond, sociopaths also use trance & hypnosis!!! YES!!! how scary is this!!! I know my ex used these evil methods to control my mind. Plus sociopaths literally use brain washing, mind control, reward & punishment, gas lighting abuse (google this & do a search on love fraud for more info), pathological lying, manipulation…it goes on and on.

Like you state you must follow your gut feelling! I too say all of the marching RED FLAGS my ex h gave off from the minute I met him. YES the very second I met him thru mutual friends I thought he was a tornado and the second time I met him I thought he was CRAZY!! Not crazy as in fun but CRAZY as in mental instution…but he knows how to con people into his web of description just like all sociopaths do…so please do not beat yourself up…this for me was a very hard set to over come but you will someday let go and just realize you pushed into hell by this sociopath without knowing what he was doing.

The book Gift of Fear by Gavin Debecker is excellent at reminding yourself to always always follow your gut. Google “Oprah Gavin Debecker you tube” to watch their powerful interview on the subject.

I have read that within 3 SECONDS we can determine if someone is trust worthy or not….in the Oprah video she makes a very powerful statement…animals do not stick around to see if someone or another animal is trust worth nope they just run off or fly off like birds do. This is what humans need to do also. I have always had a strong reaction to people (followed my gut feelings) but as I got older I thought maybe I should be more open minded…what I realized after being thrusted into hell is NEVER EVER ignore your first gut reaction about someone. First impressions are lasting impressions!!!

One of the things that victims of abuse do not realize is the stress of the toxic relationship wreaks havoc on our bodies which in turn wreak havoc on our minds.

Do a search on “Adrenal fatigue” see the symptoms also see Adrenal fatigue. org and DrLam. com…they both have good sites to understanding how stress affects the adrenal glands and in turn effects our body & mind. On another site the site creator asked everyone if they had health problems during their relationship but not before over 400 people responded with almost the identical related health issues i.e. sleep issues, anxiety, depression, racing mind, PTSD, mood swings, etc etc = all issues related to adrenal fatigue.

You might want to find a good endocrinologist doctor to test you for vitamin/mineral deficiency, hormonal imbalance, cortisol levels all issues with victims of abuse. And all of these can effect your thoughts and how you recover from the abuse.

Google & do a seach on love fraud up at the top right corner for:

no contact rule sociopaths

gas lighting abuse

sociopath trance

sociopath brain washing

sociopath hypnosis

Glad you found your way to love fraud & found the courage to post your story!!

Wishing you all the best.💜

Jan7

Aware…ps your local library (USA) might have the book Gift of Fear. Plus just to let you know that Donna Anderson site creator of Lovefraud has a phone coaching program that for a small fee you can talk with her on the phone with might help you too. IF you go to the top under the “Contact tab” you will find the info about this program. Also she has created an online course to help victims heal with looks incredible (I have not used it as it was created this year).

Aware

Hi Jan 7,
As soon as I finish this blog I’m on my way to get The Gift of Fear, I love to read, thank you! I agree with you on getting sick…during the first few months my stomach ached like you cant imagine, and I had never had anything like that happen to me before. I purchased a bottle of homeopathic stomach pills and still have them, I keep them in my medicine cabinet as a reminder to freakin listen to my body/intuition from now on!
Its funny how I was concerned with his health (psoriasis and skin cancer)but he didn’t give a shinola about mine, so one way.

Jan7

Hi Aware, just to let you know that Donna (site creator of Lovefruad) also has a list of books to read that she has either written or reviewed. If you go to the top of the site & look under the red tab “Lovefraud store” then click on “shop for books” you will find her list.

My counselors gave me the book “Woman who love psychopaths” by Sandra Brown to read which was extremely helpful in understanding the craziness that I endured at the hands of my ex h. During my marriage I felt like my ex was brain washing me & when I asked my counselor about this she stated “YES!! Sociopaths brainwash their victims!!!”…I did a search on the net & found the book Freedom of Mind by Steven Hassan, he is a cult & domestic abuse expert & his book explains the brain washing aspect. This book opened my eyes wide open to how sociopaths take over your brain. It was like Steven Hassan witnessed my marriage then wrote his book. So crazy this world!!

You are so right with regards to listening to your body & intuition!!! My gut instintst & body told me everything the second I met people & I stupidly let my guard down. 🙁

Like your ex, My ex h would not even bring me a glass of water when I was so sick I could not even get out of bed but god forbid he had a cold and the whole damn world needed to stop revolving to help him in his time of “need”. He was masterful with this manipulation of “poor me” pity play.

I always stay that the one thing the sociopaths of this world never counted on what other victims helping each other to heal!!

Glad you are free of your ex now!!!!! Count your lucky stars!!! True blessing!!!👯🍀🎉💫✨

Aware

Hi Jan7,
Thank you for clarifying so much and sharing, I got a lot out of it! Adrenal fatigue is real I think I was almost there, went to my naturopath and he put me on a couple of supplements. I eat a balanced diet, more now than ever because its easier cooking for myself, he was a pain in the arse with food.
I had full lab work done, both my endocrinologist and my naturopath got the results as I am a long term type 1 diabetic. All is well just need to straighten my head out right now.
I loved what you said about how animals know to flee when near a threat! I, like you followed my gut as a child/young adult then something changed and I too became “open minded”.
NEVER AGAIN will I trust an untrustworthy person!
I have been using the 3 second, first impression rule since reading your post, thank you!

Jan7

Hi Aware, how are you?

My ex was the same with food. It seems “food issues” are another thing most sociopaths have in common?!?! My ex used food to control people…he had everyone running around getting him food…he had trained all of us. Even though I picked up on this right from the get go and thought it was crazy behavior with his mom & others, I too became trained by him. UHHH!! So crazy when I look back at his behavior & how I was pushed into catering to him.

Glad you are taking care of your health. I think after leaving a sociopath taking care of our health is part of the missing link to fully heal. For your type 1 check out the book Eat to Live by Dr Fuhrman and also google his name with the word you tube. He is on PBS often & his PBS specials are on you tube. And his website. Obviously check with a doctor before you change your diet.

I think that you must remember the wise old saying “trust is earned” when dealing with people out side our inner circle. I had zero trust with my ex from the beginning…they are so masterful at spinning peoples heads way from their gut reaction.

I have reflected often on “old wise sayings” some are spot on while others are not….I remember saying this one throughout my marriage “actions speak louder then words” as I tried endlessly to figure out my ex h behavior during our marriage as it was an emotional roller coaster daily as you know. I was spot with seeing his crazy behavior & needed to leave everyday. Many many wasted years. 😞

GUT reaction = only way to react to people & setting strong boundaries and dont budge on them if your gut is telling you not to.

I also think that it is important to realize that we were brought up with many myths that we should not take at face value i.e. “marriage is hard work” well it’s a hell of a lot of work with a sociopath, with a normal person not so much….”divorce is not an option” to that one I say YES IT IS if you are married to a sociopath!!.

Hope all is well, Take care.

slimone

Hi Bev,

Agreed. I don’t feel sorry for them. Hope I didn’t come across that way. But I do think that this a mental health disease. I know they are not ‘insane’, but I do think they are diseased, in their bodies/minds. I don’t believe they actually could control themselves over the long haul.

At this point it is pretty clear that no one really knows the medical specifics of this disorder.

Hope Springs

I hear you slim.

I believe ‘it’ is categorized as a personality disorder, and not a mental illness.

I am sure the jury is always going to be out on psychopathy/sociopathy.

I do know that SON was born very different. That is what I know for sure.

dorothy2

Lol! I hope they are miserable when they are alone (almost had a twinge of empathy there) but I also think that if they are miserable, it’s a different type of misery than a person who truly feels experiences.
Everything that they experience is different because they are different and, in my opinion, just doesn’t and can’t translate into a feeling person’s understanding.
I think the most frequent question that comes to me is “why”? Why would someone DO that? Well it’s a pointless question because even if there is an answer, it wouldn’t make sense! LOLOL. Oh…. the twisted world of Spathdom…

Hope Springs

Indeed 🙂

Aware

Dorothy2,

OMG I was instantly stunned and infatuated from the minute I saw him, a first for me! Freako lives in his parents basement too! He makes 3 times more than I do but spends it all on fun and games while I pay my own bills, hmmm what a loser. I do feel empathy for him as I feel his parents enabled him all his life and still do at 46 years old.
How can one learn if there is always someone bailing them out? Sad to me. Mine was the most affectionate man Ive ever known, he is built, beautiful big blue eyes and a construction worker………OMG.
His family owns the company he”s been working for his entire life and is spoiled beyond words. Freako did have moments of clarity in that he admitted he has tried to live away from his mom but found it hard because she found ways to interfere, even when he was married, his ex wife told his mother she had to call before she just popped in. She even tried giving me her clothes after she compared our size, bodies lol, I declined in a nice way.

Aware

Bev,
What you’ve said makes alot of sense to me about your son wanting to be attached at the hip. My ex’s mother told me the reason why they have the same email address is because he wants it that way, hes 46. You also said they need “parental cover” maybe that’s why his mother said “you’ve become me” OMG this is too sad.
I’m sorry your son is suffering with this personality disorder. What is your take on their hurtful behavior towards self and others? Do they lie for power? I ask this last question because mine lied about trivial things that he wouldn’t gain from.

Hope Springs

My take is that just do what they do to get by in life. Tat means lying, cheating, and manipulating everyone.

Yes, they do lie even when the truth might even serve them better.

That is why I cannot have any relationship with these types. How can anyone navigate a pathological liar? You can never trust them at all.

Tragic for sure.

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