By O.N. Ward
Every week, a chapter of my book, “Husband, Liar, Sociopath: How He Lied, Why I Fell For It & The Painful Lessons Learned” (available via Amazon.com, just click on the title or book cover) will be published here on Lovefraud. To read prior chapters, please see the links at the bottom of the post.
Chapter 3: Sociopath Math
I can almost hear the collective cacophony. “Onna! That can’t be the whole story. There has to be something more to it. There are always two sides.”
In an attempt to be fair and to give everyone involved the benefit of the doubt, we tend to discount and dismiss malicious, destructive behavior. Sociopaths count on this. Contrary to the popular saying, there are not always two valid sides to any story (and it would not surprise me if it was a sociopath who first planted this idea in our collective unconscious). Are there two sides to the story of Bernie Madoff’s multi-billion dollar Ponzi scheme? Does the heart-breaking story of Laci Peterson and her unborn son’s 2002 Christmas-time murder at the hands of her philandering husband Scott have two sides? What about the conviction of ex-policeman Drew Peterson for murdering his third wife—are there two sides to that story? (His fourth wife has been missing since 2007.) It is critical to realize that there does not have to be more to the story of Paul and Jenny—not if Paul is a sociopath.
Since we have empathy and a conscience, it is almost impossible for us to imagine that there are people, like Paul, who are devoid of both. Yet, there are—lots of them. To help silence those voices in your head that want to give Paul a legitimate side to the story, I would like to give you a crash course in what I call sociopath math.
Although simplistic, I’m guessing we make tradeoffs and choices when we balance our needs against the needs of others by some implicit mental math: We compare the importance of a person to us and the importance of their needs to the importance of our needs. As a result, sometimes we will compromise our needs in favor of someone else’s, and at other times we will allow our needs to trump those of another person. But a sociopath does not and cannot care about other people, so the importance of any other person to the sociopath is always zero (unless the sociopath is valuing the other person as part of a long-term manipulation). Let that simmer in your mind for a moment. Since a sociopath always values every other person at zero, the sociopath’s need, no matter how small, always trumps the other person’s need, no matter how big. It does not matter if that other person is the sociopath’s child, parent, spouse, sibling, or a total stranger. Of course, a sociopath does not act like this at first, because his initial priority is to lure you into developing a relationship—one that can be leveraged for his gain.
For Paul, his need for a wife to be a built-in maid, cook, errand runner, dog watcher, and source of sex trumped Jenny’s need to lay a solid educational and financial foundation for her future. As a sociopath, Paul never gave her needs or her future a second thought. It was always only about how Paul could use Jenny to serve his needs. End of story. There are no two-sides to this story, no footnotes needed. No happy ending possible for Jenny, me, Paul’s new wife, or any of his future targets.
Speaking of footnotes, the sports car Paul took from his first marriage is likely also a manifestation of sociopath math. I am not suggesting that the purchase of a hot sports car is a sign that someone might be a sociopath. However, for Paul to have purchased a sports car at that point in his life suggests warped priorities, the kind associated with a selfish, stimulation-seeking, status-hungry sociopath. Why on earth would a man with no savings, an entry-level job, and a wife in college with prohibitive student loans choose an expensive sports car as the family car? Wouldn’t the money saved on a more practical car have been better spent on the education of the woman he “loved,” who gave up her free Stanford education and relocated across the country to be his wife?
It would have been helpful if I had investigated and determined the truth about Paul and Jenny’s relationship earlier, because it contained multiple early warning signs. Why did Paul get Jenny to marry so young? Why did he get her to give up so much (a free Stanford education) to become his wife? If they were destined to be together, why not wait to get married after Jenny graduated? Why did Paul not make any tradeoffs so he and Jenny could be together? Who really suffered disproportionately by their short marriage?
Unfortunately, what I did not have was the knowledge that every woman needs to be vigilant for signs the man with whom she is falling in love might be a sociopath. Paul exhibited many signs that only now do I realize are relevant: a sense of instant compatibility; someone clearly interested in being in charge or being in control; a life-story that elicited “pity”; emotional isolation of a partner even, ostensibly, for valid reasons (i.e., Jenny’s emotional isolation as Paul’s wife); short relationships; lack of fear or strain in situations most others find stressful (e.g., a rigorous graduate program that did not faze Paul); and selfish behavior (the sports car, getting Jenny to give up her Stanford education). A dangerous constellation was already starting to form, but I didn’t know about sociopaths. The water was receding from the beach, but I certainly did not know the warning signs. It never occurred to me that a feeling of instant compatibility with an attractive, smart fellow Yale MBA candidate who was comfortable taking the lead and who seemed calm when others were stressed could be warning signs of anything dark and malevolent. It seemed more like a dream come true.
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Notes
Identifying names, places, events, characteristics, etc. that I discuss here and in my book have been altered to protect the identity of everyone involved.
The psychopath wormed his way into my life
Hi Everybody,
Update: My spath had until today to turn over signed releases to get financial accounts under his control to be turned over to me. Did he do it? You got it the answer is no. But it is not ruining my day. I just took a nice walk and I’m going to have a lovely homemade lunch of steak, roasted jalapeños, roasted Hatch chilies, bell peppers and new potatoes. But to start off with my sister and best friend are going to first devour a small vat of the most delicious pico de gallo on the planet. Washed down with a glass of chardoney. If only we all could spend our lives in such lovely company all the time. This is actually a very good day. And the further I get away from him the more time I have to have days like this. To use your expression Bev- cheers. I hope we can all count our blessings.
Ooh, what a lovely post becoming!!
It is no surprise that you know who did not follow through (sorry, the rhyme there was unintended). You already knew what would happen.
Your day is indeed, perfect.
You make it so!
Oh…and, how could I forget…
CHEERS!!! 🙂
Bev,
The three of us are sitting here chowing down on the chili, discussing this week’s events on Lovefraud. Of course we are talking about you and what an amazing person you are. And the terrible road you travelled and how this week we talked about love. We are sending you and your mom lots of love this Mother’s Day weekend from our dusty corner of the world. Our friend lost her mother. As is mine. And we are so glad for you that you have your mother. Cheers.
That is the sweetest thing to say. Thank you. Thank you for thinking of me. I hope you are at least having some laughs out of the conversation about SPs!
I am so sorry that some of you do not have your moms. I know how fortunate I am to still have mine.
We celebrate Mother’s Day for her only. I do not consider myself a mother and that is just fine! No sorrow about it, only happiness and love for my own mom.
My husband is out of town this weekend and I am actually meeting my Mom in about 40 minutes at a great place for Mexican food. On Sunday, her and I are going out AGAIN for Greek food! We are putting on the lbs this weekend… 🙂
Bev,
Sounds like a great time with good food and even better company. We had so much fun we are going to do it again tomorrow. This time I will be the hostess. What better way to spend Mother’s Day than with the people I love.
Oh my, YES!!
I agree! I am not sad at all…I used to dread Mother’s Day, but not any more.
I wish you a fabulous Sunday…and every other day too 🙂
Bev,
More women are in the same position than we know. The more I talk to people the more either they or someone they know have a spath child. Many who do not have spath children but have mated with a spath have been alienated from their children and as a byproduct they are emotionally disconnected from these children.
I hope that you celebrate tomorrow and all the kind, wonderful and nurturing relationships you have fostered in your life. You get to define what Mother’s Day means and not some card company’s definition of it.
I agree that there are many women in the same position, having to say or show that they ‘love’ their children, simply because that is how it is supposed to be. Here is a Mother’s Day gift for all of us that are in that vortex….
https://rapebyfraud.com/2016/05/08/its-mothers-day-mothers-of-abusive-kids-have-little-to-celebrate/
Of course, this article only sort of touches on borderline personality disorder, which, apparently can be treated? I was not aware.
As for SP/Ps…well, as far as I know, once they are adults, there is no help, if there ever really was.
Bev,
Thanks for the article. I liked that the author acknowledges that there are children who are disordered. She goes so far as to say it’s okay not to “like” the disordered child. But I had difficulty with her position she can love a child she dislikes. Does she really love that child? Or does she equate her sense of duty toward her child as love? I say duty and love are two different things all together. You can be dutiful, protective, caring and feel not one ounce of love. How can you love someone you cannot plug into? I wish the author took “love” out of article and just left it with count your lucky stars when your disordered child becomes an adult and moves on.
Becomingstrong,
That is what I saw right away as well….god forbid you should ever say that you do not LOVE your child…well, what would people think? Would that not just make you a terrible ‘mother’?? (You know that I am joking here).
Duty IS what we feel. Duty is is different than love, for love is that warm feeling that you cannot help but have for someone. Duty is just a sense of responsibility.
In my experience there are always people who agree with me and always people who disagree with me, over a particular point. Some people think I’m a terrible person and others respect my choices. As I get older, I find I don’t care so much what people who don’t really know me think – I value my friendships with people who care about my well being, who understand some of my experiences, and who know better than to judge others.
Yes, that’s right Annette.
People sometimes just drift away from each other naturally, in life. Likely because they have different outlooks and/or opinions.
How you define ‘duty’ is part of what I define as ‘love.’ You define ‘love’ as what I call emotion that’s related to love, but not the substance of love.
Most people probably define love as the warm feeling emotion, so when someone says, ‘How could you not ‘love’ (ie. warm feeling for) your child?’ this person has not experienced a spath disordered person. They do not understand.
From what you describe, you’ve experienced and known about spaths and spath behavior for most of your life.
Until my ex psychopath experience in my middle age, I did not understand. I held some views of abusive relationships and abused women that I understand now were completely inaccurate. Until I encountered the psychopath who victimized me, I did not know that someone like that could exist.
Consider that it depends on one’s definition of ‘love,’ and that different people define ‘love’ differently. Each person comes to terms with difficult experiences in his/her own way. And people often change their viewpoint over time as they find a way to have internal peace about their experiences with difficult people and difficult circumstances.
Many religions teach the ‘love your enemies’ concept, which does not mean condone wrong hurtful choices, nor ‘like’ others’ bad behavior, nor continue to interact with a harmful person. This ‘love’ is defined as not harming others out of vengeance, and always doing good for others if it’s possible. It does not mean doing what an evil person wants one to do, or going along with bad choices to please an evil person.
In the Greek language that the Bible’s New Testament was written, there are 3 words for ‘love’ – agape, phileo, eros, and storge. Each word describes a different variation on the emotions and choices of actions that are all lumped together in one word – ‘love’ – in the English language.
There is also a book (I haven’t read it – someone told me about it a few years ago) called The 5 Languages of Love. I think it’s about love between spouses, I’m not sure if it covers other relationships. The premise is that different people express ‘love’ differently.
Good morning ladies,
I see we are having a debate as to whether some women love children. Good. Annette, being a Roman Catholic and having had twelve years of Catholic education what that means is we never read the bible. And I know there is some philosophy. But I do have an inkling as to what you are trying to say about the differences in love in Greek that our pitiful English word does not convey. Having said that, I’ll share with you the fact that my parents divorced when I was older and my father treated my mother miserably in that divorce. Being a spath on the sadistic end, he literally tried to drive her out a window. Watching it at the time I didn’t know about spaths but I knew he was bad and that I didn’t like him and that I didn’t love him. Now keep in mind this divorce was extremely public and occasionally its still mentioned in the newspapers. I took up for my mother, the non powerful party. That of course has cost me over the years given his power and prominence. Now I’m going to get to the point. Sometimes his name will come up in a conversation and I will make it clear that yes I was his daughter and I had nothing with and I found him to be a despicable person. More times than I care to count this person would tell me, “Oh you don’t mean that. Of course you loved your father.” I cannot tell you how disturbing I always find that comment. Because I know my own heart. I don’t love or like my father. I adore and like and love and cherish my mother. So I know the difference. Now Annette what I’m asking you to consider is to just accept it at face value when a woman tells you she doesn’t love her child/children. Just accept it don’t try to find a way out. It makes it harder for us who don’t love a child to say it out loud. You accept that there are different forms of love, please accept there’s also no love. As for mother’s day yesterday, I had a great time. Because I spent it with someone I love and someone who loves me, my sister. My youngest daughter gave me a card and a rose and a song and a dance and that delighted me. My son didn’t even wish me happy mother’s day, nor had he given his little sister a birthday present last month, nor did he give anyone a gift at Christmas time, nor has he given anyone a gift in my memory, ever. But he gets gifts and birthday parties, he’s been taught the protocol.
Thanks for your thoughts. I’m glad you explained your viewpoint. And I’m glad you had a good mother’s day. I agree it’s regrettable that people who don’t understand another’s experience say ‘of course you love so and so….’ and are critical of your choice in how to deal with someone. I agree that there are times it is best not to continue a relationship with a harmful person including children.
I am sorry that your son chooses such hurtful behavior. If he suffers from the ‘spath’ disorders, it is likely he acts this way because he’s angry he’s not successful in manipulating people and getting something he wants from them. It’s not really possible to have any kind of love based relationship with someone who is operating under those motives.
I think you’ve misunderstood my posts. I accept every point of view and all emotions experienced by anyone, and am not trying to ‘find a way out’ of anything. I’m trying (not very well I guess!) to express my philosophy that I define love in such a way that I can honestly answer someone who may criticize my choice not to interact with someone – even my parent or my child – and to withhold my ‘affection’ when it’s not appropriate to interact, that I do ‘love’ that person in the best way I know how. I hope you can accept my paradigm and definition of ‘love’ as I accept yours.
It’s helpful if everyone allows others to choose to deal with a matter in their own way, even those who don’t view things the way any one of us does.
I hope this helps, and I hope that you don’t feel consternation at my viewpoint.
i think I understand AnnettePK.
I also know that wonderful warm people (like you) feel compassion for those of us who experience this mother-child break.
We know where your heart is, believe me.
I agree with you, becomingstrong.
At times in my life, I have also heard people say to other people, ‘surely, you love you mother” (or your father, or whoever the subject of topic is).
That has made me ‘squirm’ to hear that. How does someone know what another person really feels? It’s like they are trying to make you ADMIT that, yeah, okay, I guess I must LOVE that person, I mean otherwise, that makes me one screwed up person.
Yes, I would feel bad (awful actually) when someone says to me…oh, you don’t and can’t REALLY mean that. Mind you, I never come out and SAY that I do not feel motherly love for my son to anyone. Just on this site and to my mother. Perhaps that is why I don’t say it out loud. I am afraid of other peoples’ reactions to that.
I think AnnettePK may be trying to help us to actually accept how we feel and that it is okay in that there are different definitions and possibly even different tyopes od love.
It made me feel angry, frustrated, and ‘squirm’ is a great description of the feeling, when people did not understand and made similar un-helpful comments to me about the psychopath I was fake ‘married’ to. There was no way I could make them understand. It hurt to lose some friendships and some acquaintances I valued.
Being able to interact here with people who understand is incredibly valuable to me. I don’t think I would have the recovery process I’ve been blessed with, without resources like this and the people I’ve ‘met’ on this site.
Yes! I posted that just now.
How, I think that I have found true friends here, in you and becomingstrong.
It feels so good to be able to talk freely.
Oh, btw, my son has NEVER wished any Mother’s Day greetings to me, even when I still had contact with him.
He does not care about ANYONE except himself. He always expected birthday, Christmas, Easter, etc acknowledgement, but NEVER reciprocated himself. Of course, everyone always excused him for that. Just a ‘dumb’ male. That’s how they are. God forbid if you ever forgot to acknowledge him, you would end up on his shit list and receive the silent treatment! Asshole.
I do not want any of his made up fake acknowledgements ever anyway. Let’s count ourselves fortunate! This was MY best ‘Mother’s Day’ yet!!
typs correct:
… as to whether some women love their children.
P.S.
Being open that I thoroughly disapproved of my father’s conduct and that I shunned him, I was in turn shunned by large segments of the community because I was going against the grain and the order of society, I was being unfelial and that rocks the boat and the power structure and I’m doing it again now. And once again it’s disturbing to people that a woman would dare to break out of her chains and say I reject this. And I don’t love bad people. And really, until women feel they can throw these shackles off without being excommunicated and left to wither outside the town walls. They really are just going to be running in place. Not loving a child does not mean you are derelict and shirking your duties. It’s a tall order to expect women to be superhuman. Men get a pass when they abandon children they proclaim to love and women are told they’re bad or they are too simple to know their own heart. When they take of a child they claim they don’t love. Consider the injustice of this.
I don’t define love as a feeling. I didn’t make that clear which probably led to misunderstanding. In my paradigm love is primarily choices of actions, for example the choice of a long term commitment between people. I recognize there are various strong and warm emotions connected with a love based relationship; but love does not consist only of these emotions.
I agree that one can’t generate warm feelings with no basis. Also, warm feelings are not appropriate with disordered people. Spaths take advantage of their victims’ natural emotions and use them against us for their selfish evil motives.
Thank you for this interesting discussion.
Whoops, I meant this to reply to your post below about feeling for anyone.
The world is full of injustice, and it sounds like you have experienced a lot of it in a painful way. What you describe sounds like spath behavior along with spath excuses and blaming others.
It is truly infuriating to me that it is totally acceptable for men to abandon their wives (and vice versa) for just about any reason like they just aren’t ‘happy’ in their marriage. Abandoning children, who are powerless and innocent, while saying they love them is a contradiction.
My ex psychopath was constantly burdening me with trying to do the impossible, and blaming me for failing to do things or somehow make others do something I had absolutely no control over.
Maybe it’s possible to fix the world’s system and institutions. Or maybe another solution is to completely reject the system that is doing the excommunicating and leaving victims to wither outside the town walls; and build a new town to live in based on justice, that excludes spaths and leaves them to wither outside the town walls.
becomingstrong and AnnettePK,
I can see and feel that both of you are two (here come those words again) warm and loving souls who are wise beyond words.
You are helping each other, me, and everyone else on this site. You are helping us all to be able to express our feelings, unabashed, in a safe and friendly setting.
I have never said that I do not feel the love that I am supposed to feel for my son, to anyone, except my own mother. EVER. I feel safe to do so, here. Thank you for that. It has been such a burden to carry.
I really think that I LOVE you both!! In whatever way that means in this situation. Perhaps in the way that I feel that I know you and your acceptance.
Wow! You go girl!!
You are so wonderful and so strong.
Does it make us happy to not have that ‘love’ that we are SUPPOSED to have? NO. Do we wish that it could be different. HELL YES.
Are we going to let this KILL our spirit? HELL NO. We only have one life after all.
🙂
Annette,
What I’m getting is you can feel towards anyone and I can’t. Thank you for your thoughts.
Dear Bev and Annette,
What was painful about my parent’s divorce, was not that my mother left my father, I personally was glad, It was watching my mother suffer and being terrorized by that asshole. It was difficult to watch my mother’s house get broken into, her cars vandalized, hateful comments directed at her, lost friendships, courtroom tyranny, her life fall apart but the worst of it was the broken heart she suffered that I believe wholeheartedly eventually led to her early death. It was a sense of helplessness and a desire to want to protect her. I would awaken many nights truly frightened my mother would die. I tried to be a good daughter. I would come home from college for the weekends and I thought if I showed my mother how much I love her she will survive the divorce. Watching what was the spark in my mother’s eyes fade. It was horrible to watch what was a beautiful, loving, energetic, dutiful, smart, witty, hardworking woman barely able to get out of bed. She eventually regained her vigor but the spark in her eye never returned. Okay what did I do? I went and married my own spath and had a bunch of kids with him. And it has been a process of getting away. Part of it from him and part of it sending the children who wanted to go live with him and getting away from them. And I now realize I spent the last 15 years, living with and pretending they loved me and I loved them. I have two children who are rotten to the core. And I have two children while I don’t think they are rotten, they simply have no love for me. And then I have one child who may be capable of loving me. But honestly I’m not sure. I’m on my guard. So I went from the fire to the frying pan. And I’m getting some perspective as the fog clears. And I’m running toward the good and I can see now who and what that is. And I want the bad off of me. I strongly believe psychopathy is genetic and my children have it on both sides of the family.
I feel that way as well.
I cannot pretend, I have learned that about myself. It took YEARS to realize that I was pretending. I will DIE if I have to try to pretend any more. I will literally die. I want to LIVE.
What is, is what is real.
What I feel and DON’T feel for my son is REAL.
AND, my son simply has NO love for me…or anyone else for that matter.
He isn’t capable.
I can’t be involved with that.
Dear Bev,
You deserve so much more in life than to live a lie. I love you Bev and wish you only love and kindness. I am glad you see you are not alone.
I already posted my love for you, as well, becomingstrong.
I just feel that way. I can’t help it…lol.
We both deserve a truthful and love filled life. Especially loving myself, for that is all the love that I really NEED.
Nobody should live a lie, don’t you think? Only the SPs can live a lie, and still exist.