Lovefraud recently received the following email from a reader who posts as “Salvation2012.”
Thank you for helping me decide when I needed to cut my losses during my divorce. I did cut my “losses,” yet the total I received tallied up to a number similar, just not in all cash. Because I settled in his eyes, he told everyone I was just proving how I was the guilty one and didn’t want to risk being exposed. To the end he will deny permanently injuring me and bleeding me of money, and cheating on me (which I only later found out about the extent).
My recent concern is watching him seemingly have no consequences. I’m not a vengeful person, so this is a distressing area for me, but I just thought karma or something would move in. How was he convicted of a crime, and given no contact and stay away orders from civil and criminal courts, and still have his job, and still be with the woman he was with (apparently for the last 7 years. We were together since January 2007, so their relationship lasted the entirety of our time together), and his friends are happy for him.
Maybe I’m staunch in my morals, but if I had a friend who was found guilty and the judge took away his first time offenders rights because 1) the severity of the injuries and 2) it was only the first caught act of violence, I would not support that person anymore. I would say that person dug themselves a big hole and it’s theirs to climb out of or stay in.
I am finding peace in my new location, yet struggle with reality checking and normal people actually being normal and trusting that. He seems to be just fine and has announced to all the love of his life, and he is finally happy happy happy, and has been with her since last May, which was while we were still married, and is the incorrect start date as her husband contacted me and has been following them for 7 years of his marriage (they are now going through a divorce).
It’s not a jealousy, but an envy of how he is so unaffected by what he did to me, even with law and court representatives telling him to his face what they saw in him. I don’t want to have to figure him out anymore as it prevents me from fully moving forward. So how do I turn off the switch when the spath is moving on easily and I am still finding my ground?
Salvation2012 brings up two issues here that seem to be intertwined, but they really aren’t. The issues are what happens to the sociopath, and what happens to us.
The sociopath
Chances are very good that sooner or later, karma will move in on the sociopath. At some point sociopaths usually screw up. They go too far over the line, anger the wrong person, get sloppy, run out of people to exploit, or suffer medical consequences after years of unhealthy living.
But this is not going to happen on our timetable. In fact, we may never even hear of the sociopath’s unseemly collapse.
In the meantime, sociopaths seem to be getting away with everything. And yes, they are unaffected. But think about why they are unaffected: They are hollow, empty shells of human beings. They have no heart and no conscience. This is what enables them to shred us and move on without a second thought.
I’d rather keep my heart and conscience and suffer the pain than live their eternally barren existence.
So what do we do? We let them go. We let go of our experience with them. Our goal should be to get to the point where they simply don’t matter. They are non-entities.
Our own path of healing
Letting go of the sociopath is actually one of the best things we can do for ourselves. When we stop worrying, or even wondering, about consequences for the sociopath, we can focus our energy on our own healing.
Salvation2012 asked, “How do I turn off the switch?”
The first step is to viscerally accept what happened to us. Usually the switch that connects us to the sociopath is jammed on because we’re still beating ourselves up for falling for the lies, or wishing that what happened in our life did not happen.
We don’t condone the actions of the sociopath. We don’t like what happened, either. But we do have to get to the point where we can say, “It happened, and there’s nothing I can do about that now, except move forward.”
Then we take steps to process the pain. We look for our vulnerabilities and address them, so that we never fall for a sociopath again. And as we go along, we make sure to be good to ourselves.
Yes, we were hurt, but that’s because we have a heart and a conscience — both of which we want to cherish.
fight,
Thank you for your analogy of psychopaths being natural disasters. I have been floundering under the confused belief that they are still human beings. It is impossible to reconcile that they are huuman because they simply are not human. They are missing every single trait that defines humanity. Even a slug has more meaning in life than a psychopath. It is very helpful to me to let go of trying to believe that it is in any way a human being. It clearly is not a human being, it is nothing more than a black hole pretending to be human. You have provided me with the release from yet another critical layer of the cognitive dissonance of psychopathy.
I knew it was not human and yet on some level I kept trying to fit it into some kind of subcategory of humanity. There is no subcategory of humanity where it fits. There is no subcategory of any living organism where it fits. It is nothing but an anomaly, nothing more or less than a natural disaster that blows in and blows out disapating into its own nothingness.
It is no different than if my daughter was carried off by a tornado along with my grandchildren. I must grieve the loss and let it go. There is no figuring out why or what I could have done to prevent it. She was simply sucked into the vortex of nothingness that is her father and now she has become her own vortex of nothingness…a cruel and violent nothingness that terrifies me but does not define me.
She used to be my precious little girl and now she is gone. I can pray but not hope that she is only temporarily caught in his vortex of evil and not her own. I can pray that my sweet loving grandchildren survive, be there for them as much as I am allowed and let them know that I will love them forever.
But I can never again try to reconcile a psychopath with even a discordant form of humanity. I think there is some spiritual healing in that recognition.
Betsybugs: Thank you very much for your loving, human comments given to me. Your words are a gift to me today as I am a very isolated person and this is the best place I have found to give my deepest thoughts a voice.
I am sorry for your loss concerning a disastrous sociopath and glad you can separate him from the role of “human” and love and care for his victims without his non-human being taking up more of your time than necessary. It helps me to picture mine as an old robot. I have also gone through a phase where I have nicknamed him a feral foster monkey. Human like, but never going to make it to full human mental/emotional status in any way, shape, or form. They are molecules, cells, water, etc. born as human, but not grown as human.
I can’t take credit for the first reminder of Cognitive Dissonance here on lovefraud. Although I have been using that phrase to describe myself for years, it was mentioned here first by someone else. I believe Imara brought it up the other day in discussing the new DSM and I found her comments very insightful as far as the mental illnesses, or attributes, we develop while trying to figure out a sociopath. Have a peaceful day. We all deserve peace during and after the
disaster” rips through our lives.
The parental height of devastation occurs when a psychopath passes on the genetic pre-disposition to psychopathy to their offspring. As parents we can’t imagine the horror of losing our children. Even though a psychopathic child continues to exist, the bonds of love that should accompany that existence are shattered and the living loss of a child can be excruciating.
When we lose a loved one to illness or accident, we can grieve that loss and ultimately reduce the pain to a corner of our lives where it has less impact on our joy. But when the loss repeats itself day after painful day, through the repetition of hatred, anger, distortion,or rift, the pain is constantly being renewed. People around us do not necessarily see this loss as something that we need to grieve.
It takes great effort and courage to acknowledge that there is nothing more that can be done and to come to terms with the fact that you did all you could, and let it go.
Having been through a similar situation with my son,I wanted to pass along my hopes for you to grieve your loss and allow joy back into your life once again.
Wishing you the best!
Joyce
Joyce:
I have been through the pain, tears, torture and heartbreak with my son on and off for over 13 years. No more. I know most of the woman had husbands that were sociopaths but my own flesh and blood is one. I believe it is easier, though still painful, for them to not have any contact with their ex’s than it is for a mother to never see her child again. I can not tell you how my heart is broken, but after many years I have finally faced the fact that trying to be in his life is just self-destructive and my health has been affected by it all. He has no concept of what love is and he abused my love and care for him over the years. I wish I lived far away from him because I know someday I will probably run into him and the pain will start all over again. And then there is my family, who still get together with him at family gatherings though I won’t attend. Sometimes it feels like a nightmare, the cute little boy I loved, cared for, dedicated my life to, could become what he is-a liar, deceiver, manipulator and calculator-and so very good at it, too. So very sad…
Tangling with a sociopath as your boss in a work situation makes it so difficult to let go. Of course, boss is suffering no consequences, and I have been unemployed for over six months, and wondering if I will ever get a job. I am a professional person, I and I have never, ever had a problem getting a job. I even did work to protect myself by filing a complaint against the sociopath and that resulted in an assurance from the former company that the boss was told to not speak about me. But, how can I know if that is what is going on? Prospective employers, as I continue to get job rejections, are not speaking. The company has a neutral work verification # I give, but they can still contact he boss if they do some digging. Prospective employers ask you sign a release, boss could still say anyway.
Everything I have worked for all my life financially is being taken away, my savings for retirement, what is next? My house going into foreclosure? Months of pain over the unfairness of this, the lies. Unwanted unemployment. Unemployment benefits only last so long. The glaring hole in my resume f working at a job for only five months, now a six month gap in unemployment and, although I have a good explanation, excellent references,I am not getting hired. I even never got hired for a big opportunity after two interviews.
I have had no income since February and am at the point of hopeless, my career condemned, and what did I do at my last job: I worked hard and never missed a day. Work situations are even more difficult, in some days.
Graceous, I am so sorry to hear about what happened to you. I also had a very big struggle at work. I became a whistleblower and because someone anyone could bully and got very ill, lost my career, etc. I am lucky in one sense. A doctor had taken me off work for a disability break while I still worked there, so I could get long term disability for two years after they fired me.
I am going to recommend a book called, “The Bully at Work.” It may be at your local library. I read it while I was going through my situation. However, I think it would be very helpful in raising your self esteem back up in reference to work and it gives ideas about finding a job during and after dealing with one.
I know rent, food, etc. are of the utmost importance in this moment, so I would like to recommend that you see if you can find 2-3 people in other departments who will be references for you…especially people who may be at higher levels than you were in the company hierarchy. I had many bullies by the end. But, even one can make you feel as if everyone was against you because they won’t speak up. However, some may be willing to be called as a good reference as long as you make it clear you will let no one at that company know they are helping you. Also, one thing my sister did when she was forced out after noticing accounting fraud after a company was taken over by one of those new types of companies where the people get a salary for taking a company into bankruptcy while saying they are going to help. My sister was married so had a different last name than my Mom. She HAD actually worked at the same company as my Mom, so she used my Mom as a reference and got a really good job. If you have any family members (aunts, uncles and cousins would be even better) who are also professionals and would be willing to be called as professional references for you, that could be helpful.
Typically, HR is only allowed to give the dates you worked there. But, you have to have references you can trust and prospective employers do their best to call supervisors and get more information. A sociopath is not going to help you with that. It IS illegal for someone to lie about you to a prospective employer, but each state has different laws about that. I have heard of people (in states where it is OK to record someone without their permission) having a friend, attorney, or private investigator, call the culprit and ask for a reference. If a bad one with lies is given, the tape can be used to sue the person. However, these days, that would be a long road of stress and you just want a job. So I would recommend you think of three people there who would be willing to give you a good reference (discuss with them that less is more and they just need to say that you were a great worker with a few of those key phrases prospective employers want to hear) and when the app asks for your supervisor’s name, “forget” to fill in that part. Just some ideas so you can think outside the box and figure out what will work best for you.
Probably the best idea is a temp service or head hunter…depending on what type of position you held before. When I left a job once and didn’t want to give references (left because boss was having sex with the other assistant and he was a coke addict), I went to work for a temp service and got offered jobs based on the work I did. When people asked me why I left my previous job, I told them I wanted to try out working at several new companies by actually working there a few weeks to choose the best new career path for me as well as seeing if I could offer more of my professional skills to a new company. Temping pays the bills and it IS a good way to watch for the red flags of a sociopath boss and move on to the next company. Good luck to you.
I just want to say that it does get better and the sociopath usually has to face some consequences at some point. I remember thinking to myself how could he be so happy with someone else and how it worked out so great for him after the fraud, identity theft, denial our child even existed, cheating, abuse, prostitution…the list goes on and on for him. The truth is he will be in the same position with the next person, given the right amount of time. My spath is finally in federal prison for fraud. Funny enough he is having an attorney still file things against me while he is in prison in regards to a child he hasn’ tried to see in over a year. I lost everything I have had (house, job, my identity-id theft), but I finally have rebuilt from his destruction after years of healing. I am thankful that I went through it, because it brought me to where I am out right now. I have a new career, have rebuilt my credit, have slowly built some ounce of trust for men, and am just very blessed. It taught me to be a fighter. The sociopath, when they are done with you, will always find new targets. I now feel sorry for the new women he continues to manipulate (from prison:)). Eventually though, the truth makes its way out, and the spath usually gets exposed for who they are, even if it takes years.
Fight, thank you for much for your response. I am familiar with the book ‘The Bully at Work’, will see if I can find it in my library or at the library, and revisit it. As far as references, that is something I am confident about. I have at least three solid references, and really five. Two are with the most recent former employer. I also have a very plausible reason as to why I left my last position. It is really the truth, although the ex boss would give a different and twisted explanation.
It is still the question: will they call the ex boss and what will be said? Thought of hiring a pro reference checking firm, but that’s an expense. I only have one relative. There is no family to be of help here. Another question is — is is what ex boss is saying or just a really tight job market? All I know is that I passed a very demanding background check last spring for the last job, and nothing has changed with my background, except the circumstances of the last job. So, anything negative in my background would have to do with the last job, I am thinking.
I am currently looking for temp work, as well as part-time work. In my heart of hearts I am a creative person, so at least I can say that this situation has allowed me to put more time into that, but making that translate into quick earnings is not going to happen any time soon.
I wish some prospective employers would understand that having even a lower-paying job is better than no job. Really! But, assumptions are made. I did apply for a government job and checked the box for wanting to receive copies of background investigations. Will be very curious what that says, if and when I receive it.
I am not at the financial desperation point yet, and, being a homeowner or I need to remember I have options: take on a housemate, rent the house out for income. Could probably qualify for food stamps too. I am an older person, and it tears me up that I am using my retirement savings to pay for this.
Could be age discrimination. They get away with it even though it is illegal. I have a home that had the garage converted into a big room with full bath when I bought it. I made a large closet into a mini kitchen, had a separate entrance door put in and a piece of painted plywood up between the door into my home and got separate heating/air out there and it’s been an apartment now for decades. It can also be done with a master bedroom. I have been able to keep my house because of it and I don’t have to have a room mate I live “with.” It’s more like a duplex situation. That is where the spath lives right now. But, I have had some wonderful female room mates over the years. THAT is an interview process to find the right person. It’ worth a thought. It can be tiresome, but I am determined to hang on to this house.
I am glad you have references. I would try not to put the spath boss’s name on your applications. Make it more difficult for them to call. I hope you will keep us posted on how it goes for you. It would be nice if you could translate your skills into a home business…
Yes, yes, it is part age discrimination. Old enough to collect SS next year, though hope I do not have to. I can set up my house to basically make it somewhat separate. The tenant would have the back room with private entrance and a bonus sitting room. No common walls. Only thing shared would be kitchen and bath and neither requires going through my area either. And I would insist on someone who works during the day. Yep, racking my brains to figure out a home business I can start. I am a music person, and there are many avenues. Maybe its time to go for what I really want. I think I am going to get the room prepared tomorrow. Well keep everyone posted.
Hi Graceous: For some reason,the system wouldn’t let me reply to your last post, so this is ending up above your last post, I think. Remember that when you get your Social Security next year if it is time, you can still work. A lot of people on Social Security work part time to make ends meet above and beyond Social Security. You will also be eligible for Medicare which makes a big difference. Keep us posted about the room mate possibility.
This is really striking a responsive chord for me in so many aspects. I am on disability, and already lost everything, but my health is better, and faith clearer.
I am currently seeking a room/space in a home, as an option. I have always had a heart for people/animals, and sharing the knowledge that no one can relate to inhuman psycho-bots with those who are sentient beings, is a huge plus. Psycho-bots have no sense of the worth or meaning of a living being.
I have a writing/business/creative background, especially with regards to the music industry, and also a bit with fundraising/special events. I am on the northwest side of Chicago.
I think that creating your own sideline will help not only your resume, but help you re-invent and articulate who you are now.
I think like-minded people need to find new ways to work together, like we are already doing. We have the internet at our disposal, and infrastructure makes the world go round. It’s just getting to/from/with what is needed.
The best revenge is living well. Also, consider the old scripture saying “Don’t cast your pearls before swine, because they will trample them under foot, and then turn and attack you.”
The thought I had is this: A pearl and a kernel of corn are about the same size. From a distance, they look about the same. But one pearl could buy many bags of corn. The “swine” only cares about filling their appetites as quickly as possible. We know the beauty and worth of a pearl, and a bag of them is an easier load to carry. So – travel light!
Is there a way to network with other interested people from this site? Still finding my way around computer stuff….
Corie: You are making changes and starting anew. Thank you for sharing your story.
A failure to take accountability keeps the nature of the act bottled inside. We have all had some unfavorable or embarrassing actions but it is when we take accountability and embrace some humility that we release the negate emotions and grow courage. The act is still known to a Sociopath and their alibis to be a negate and shameful act even though they are lacking consciousness in their behavior. The Sociopath stays weak and weakens themselves by failure to take accountability. The Sociopath will also not grow courage. They will begin to create trails of havoc and it will come back to them. The Sociopath will also continue to repress more rage and self hatred that in turn will eventually be out of their control. Some Sociopaths don’t really think about any type of consequence. One case, a Sociopath filed a false report and a false report with two other public entities. The information became public information and it eventually led to many third parties. The information then proceeded to an appeal process. In the act of the false allegation made by the Sociopath he waved a lot of the information staying private. The Sociopath also decided to post about the situation via a social media forum where hundreds of people were looking, cut copy and pasting. The Sociopath helped get himself exposure for what he really was.
Interesting…in effect, the spath got himself in trouble unable to keep his mouth shut. Maybe too much Narcissist in him.
The spath (the one whose behavior helped me with finding this site) in my life enjoys doing the wrong thing. He will lie. I know he is lying. Sometimes I tell him I don’t believe him. Sometimes I observe him like a wormy, little science specimen just to see how he reacts when he thinks he has “gotten away with it.” He gets a little grin and a twinkle in his eye afterwards. He looks like he is a child actually. I think lying and feeling he got away with it reminds him of some childhood memories where lying was an achievement instead of a societal downfall or a weakness as you cited. They can be interesting to just observe if you don’t get to invested in them.
Hey everyone, I’m wondering if I can get some pearls of wisdom for how I’m feeling today. First off I have really been working hard with great success in loving myself and taking care of myself and its been working. I’ve finally been able to let go of “convincing” my ex psychopath that I am not crazy he was… and I don’t really care anymore! Mainly due to the education from this site.
In feeling great I’ve been able to remain “no contact” for the most part besides the fact that after he reached out for sex I ran into his new GF driving his car and flagged her down and told her!! I also decided to message the mother of his child to warn her just how dangerous this man is to have in front of their child(who I am still grieving over)
So as a way of “getting me back” he convinced this recent girlfriend and his baby momma that I was crazy and harassing them and he proceeded to tell a few friends of mine(as we run in the same circles) who have contacted me saying they have spoken to him and wants me to stop harassing him and his family????? Its SO nuts!!
I don’t CARE what he thinks of me he KNOWS I am crazy…. I don’t even care what his GF and his baby momma think as they are so brainwashed too….but he has leaked it to my friends that I am HARASSING him! All because he got caught by karma!
He’s making threats like “You don’t want to put yourself in a bad situation here” my ex and all your friends are at their wits end with you… I feel like I’m in a horror movie here…
I thought seeking revenge by pulling this woman over and warning her would teach him a lesson in karma (and I don’t believe she stayed and just believes I’m crazy…I think she took off and that’s why he’s doing this) And I also thought his baby momma would RESPOND in URGENCY with a wake up call about how psychopathic and dangerous this man is….instead no response and he tells me that she wants me to stop harassing her?
I’m so confused here….This is all SO F*&K$D and not anticipating this at all!! I appear to be like a total nut ball to friends and family and he’s convinced them that “she needs help…help her”
I’m at a loss…
Thanks:)
Serenity, this seems like a difficult situation, and I am sure someone else can reply in more depth. But, no contact has to mean no contact. It is a useless waste of energy to try to fix him in any way, shape, or form, and it is not your job to warn others. They will find out in their own time. Its difficult, and yes, people do get brainwashed, its hard to see this, but I doubt if they will remain brainwashed. The truth will out. The focus needs to be on you and how you are providing for yourself.
Serenity: When in doubt, PROTECT YOURSELF ONLY. Your personal friends are either your friends who know you or they aren’t and if they aren’t, it doesn’t matter what they think or if they are even choosing sides.
I would suggest looking at the larger picture here. People have their own lives to live. Some of them may be warning you and know he is a problem, but don’t want him turning on them. Some may be gossiping because they are bored. Either way, I would recommend not trying to convince anyone of anything. Keep to yourself for a few days. Don’t answer your phone or door unless you know who it is and they don’t want to be involved in this “he said, she said” stuff.
Go to the library and get as many books as you can about Narcissists, Sociopaths (review Donna’s book if you have it, or buy it if you don’t have it), and abusive people. The GF may not have left him, but your revelations are probably causing a great deal of conflict and questioning…just like we have all done with a spath.
These types of emotionally and physically dangerous situations are why I keep suggesting sending information anonymously if one feels the need to warn or seek revenge.
I learned a very good acronym in Al-Anon: HALT – If you are Hungry, Angry, Lonely, or Tired, HALT everything. Rest. Stop your mind from spinning. If anyone calls you about what he is saying, trying saying, “I’m not really sure what’s going on. I am staying away from him. I do not feel good around him or with him knowing anything about me. I hope my friends will respect that I don’t want to talk about him right now.”
Most of all, get back to you. What do you want to do today that does not involve him, his GF, his baby, or talking to anyone about him? I am reading a Patricia Evans book right now. It is the most recent…I think released last year. I can’t remember the exact title, but it is about surviving verbal and emotional abuse. It is a very good book with affirmations and personal thinking “exercises” to get back to you.
Because we love, or once loved, the spath, a tiny part of us still believes we are dealing with a human being. We are not. They can be dangerous. It is not our job to save the world and to let the rest of the world know we did it. Some big secrets can be kept or told here anonymously to people who understand.
If you see any future victims, or you see him ever again, count to 100 before doing anything. Keep yourself out of his radar. People can call you crazy all they want. They can’t do anything about it. No one gets hospitalized or anything like that these days unless they run through the streets acting crazy. So, even if he has convinced everyone you know that you are crazy, no one can do anything to you. But, I would stay away from anyone he is with in the future. Hopefully, he will get busy with his many problems in life and forget about this, but you don’t want him to talk this GF into a restraining order against you or anything. Stay away from them and don’t talk to another person about it starting now…except for us. Don’t admit you flagged anyone down, or talked to anyone to anybody….even people you think you can trust in your life. Talk about it only here. We all know what it must have felt like to flag down his victim and tell her the truth. It was probably exhilarating. But, THIS is the downside to that and you want to avoid THIS.
Act as if it never happened and do something for yourself. Try to stop talking about him/them with anyone except us for a few days. Don’t let his threats panic you. If they followed through on half their threats, we would have twice as many jails as we do now. Let him cool down and don’t give him any second or third hand ammunition to point any more rage your way.
What are you interested in doing, reading, watching, planting, painting, listening to for YOU right now? Pretend there is no him right now.
OMGoodness this is the best advice ever. These relationships are so toxic.
After getting away from my ex, I struggled mightily to reconcile my need to validate that I knew this man was mean, crazy, entitled and getting away with it.
In order to finish the divorce, I finally decided to settle for nothing because he fought me on everything.
It was clearly a game he delighted in. He was even mad at me for just wanting out with nothing. I was learning to disengage….slowly. It was hard.
Then he tied me up in court with ridiculous lawsuits for several years. It was for financial punishment. I’d spend a fortune to answer his allegations, then he’d drop the suit..
I was in my own private Hell. People don’t understand and it is impossible to explain. Right?
I was diagnosed with PTSD, and still have flashbacks 13 years later !
I just wanted to share something that has helped a lot. I recently decided to block him on Facebook. We weren’t friends but I couldn’t resist taking a peek to see if had finally been discovered and punished for his deeds.
Newsflash for me…. it probably won’t happen. It was a seemingly silly thing to do, to block him. But has resulted in taking away an avenue for my curiosity and has given me the peace of mind that he cannot see me. It was wonderful to finally remove the tiny tread of connection.
Of course, I have some demons to deal with, but that was big step in taking care of myself.
Please take care of yourself. You will find your way…promise.
Libby,
It is amazing what some of them will do to ruin a victim who just figured them out! My sister went through that court thing and spent a ton of money on nothing but a spath and his next wife who was also a spath. Double spath attack! It can truly drive one crazy.
Your sharing, great advice about social media, and kind words will help many people today. They have helped me. Thank you.
It may seem a very small thing to do to get back our self esteem but I also found, like Libby blocking on facebook has really helped me.Six months of no contact and this time I haven’t felt the want to get in touch but still I was hoping for some sort of validation from him. I blocked him 2 months ago and not seeing or caring what he is doing has helped me to get some distance and perspective. There are still moments when i find myself looking at my phone for the validation but they are less intense and getting less and less. Small steps but better than being stuck in reverse
Carrie: I think you’ve made an excellent point. Blocking in every way possible is a good way to stop the adrenaline and start to end the addiction.
I also like your statement that something may “seem small” when it isn’t. It helps to remind me that a small step of blocking spath behavior counts.
I have a spath in my life to some degree. I have begun blocking him in different ways. He likes to watch certain TV shows with me. I allow it a few times a week. I used to put up with nonsense. I began to notice how every time he came over, he asked for something. He was out of coffee, filters, something….seemingly small things, but I’m not rich either. And I think it is just a game anyway.
He is on a walker so I do all shopping, laundry and cleaning for him. He always runs out of coffee. He uses his money for things he doesn’t need and expects me to pick up the slack like mommy did. Last month, I got him two cans of coffee. So what did he do? He drank twice as much coffee!
He is an addictive personality to the max. I noticed the constant making of coffee and mentioned that I had been hoping that two cans of coffee would last six weeks and he would be ahead then if he purchased a can a month. He ignored me. I told him that I was not a bank or a grocery store and if he ran out of things before pay day, he would go without. He ignored me. I am doing more work for him right now and I get a little extra money for it, but not that much. He’s old and broken. He doesn’t have much.
Tonight, I asked him if he wanted to watch a show we both like. I honestly rarely enjoy time with him, but he enjoys time with me so I allow it to get the rent paid. About an hour in, he says, “Oh yeah, do you have any coffee?” I actually have very little real coffee as I only drink decaf. However, a friend who visits every once in a while drinks real coffee, so I still had a little which I was not going to give to the spath. He has “borrowed” several pounds of coffee over the last couple of years and I’m sick of it. I am proud that I finally continue to show him that there are consequences to his decisions. I said, “You drank all of that coffee? Remember when I told you that you were going to run out even though I bought twice as much as you requested?” He said, “Oh, now you’re going to scold me! I knew it,” and became very agitated. I said, “Well, if you knew it, why ask me? You are making me feel very uncomfortable. I think I will watch the rest of this show by myself. I drink decaf. I don’t even know if I have any real coffee.”
He left. It’s a relief. I used to argue for so long. Explain consequences. Spend way too much time trying to mother a 58 year old man whose mommy took care of him until he was 32. I don’t want to be his spoiling mommy any more.
I first picked up on this site by investigating Narcissism. I believe he is a narcissistic sociopath fueled by the illusions mommy fed him about himself. He is no prize in any way, shape or form. He is rent money. HE, however, thinks he is a prize! It is like watching someone very delusional to observe him. It is as if he believes I owe him coffee! Or anything else he gobbles up.
I am just sharing this here because it is nervewracking to a degree. But, tonight, I am proud that I let the sociopath learn by consequences of his own making. Thank you to everyone who helps me here on a regular basis.
This may have already been said in other replies to you, but no contact does not only apply to your ex spath… it applies to anyone he is in contact with, friends, family even comments on Facebook or twitter. As much as you may want to warn a new girlfriend, keep your boundaries and do not do it. You have to act like you never knew him and therefore it doesnt matter who he is with nor what he is doing… hang in there and stay away. HUGS
Meredith
I agree totally,as tempting as it may be to warn the next victim, I know until I was ready I wouldn’t have listened – cognitive dissonance etc all takes a while to work out. I’m lucky as it helps I live 60 miles away and have no contact with any of his “friends” or any ties with him – the way I feel is that to him I no longer exist and in a way that’s true because I’m diffrerent now.
With regard to them being able to move on so easily, if you don’t have many feelings it is easy and as for Karma whilst I would never wish anyone unhappiness the chances are this person was unhappy when you met them, whilst you were with them and will be in the future. I’m fairly sure their lives are not happy and full of misery but of course they will always portray themselves to the outside world as ‘sorted, cool and together’ not sure that having to pretend that much could be fun…..and it’s sure not real. All smoke and mirrors.
New to this forum but great to be able to share experiences and hear of so many people who are ‘living well’ despite or maybe because of their close encounters.Wishing everyone happiness xx
Carrie: So glad you are here. Your comments are helping me today. Thank you.
This article is very helpful, thanks Donna. In the beginnings of my depression, most of my friends asked me if I believe in karma. I just really don’t know. It’s not what I want, not even now. Yes I’m angry. When I think about what he did to me, I utter a few choice words, you can imagine what those are. Our last contact via email, he said to me “I’m really sorry this affected you this way” that’s the equivalent of “I’m sorry you feel that way” which does what? Absolve him of any accountability? I mean he initiated the long distance phone “relationship”
He called and texted every day charming me and leading me on. How was I supposed to react? I fell for the illusion. Karma? Not really thinking that way , I just think I’d be better if he actually took responsibility for his part. I know, not gonna happen. But instead of feeling vengeful and wishing bad consequences on him, all I want to do is forgive and move on. It’s hard to do now with all this anger I still feel. Possibly hatred too, but I’m back and forth on that. He referred to it as a “mistake” and an “error”. I wonder why, if that’s true, he kept it going for so long.
Hi toknowimok:
I’m with you about Karma. I hate it when people talk about it. My sister throws that word around a lot. When something good happens to her, it’s Karma. When something bad happens to her, it is the fault of someone else. I think when the sociopath gets us so down and sick, we then feel even worse if we think of Karma. I don’t deserve for someone to lovebomb me when he wants something and then withhold any positive attention when he doesn’t get what he wants, or just because he feels like it. I am going to stick with my natural disaster theory when it comes to sociopaths and narcissists. They are not humans with human feelings. If there was Karma, they wouldn’t be able to hurt nice people over and over.
Great word ‘Lovebomb’ it is perfect. I sometimes say collateral damage.. Are these Military analogies ? Haha
I guess so, because it can be equated to War with PTSD, fear, anxiety, dodging the bullet and destruction. These are devious opponents who will randomly ambush and take you
hostage. All the while causing mental torture. 🙂 Finally, battle fatigue. Too perfect huh ? Haha Of course, started by your fabulous word. LOVEBOMB. !
Hi Libby, I can’t take credit for love bombing. I found that word here. I imagine it is a phrase Donna came up with. It truly says what they do, doesn’t it?
I truly appreciated your comparisons about being at war with the PTSD, Depression, Agoraphobia, etc. that a sociopath (or group of them or any other natural disaster) can bring on. It certainly can be a second by second battle when the bad takes over.
I just watched a show on the Science channel studying the brain. They showed that by watching a person’s brain signals and asking him to choose to squeeze something in his left hand or right hand as he pleased, they could predict a full six seconds which hand he would choose to squeeze the object, BEFORE he did it. They could predict his choice by measuring the areas of his brain activity. So they knew which one he was going to choose before he was aware of it. Pretty amazing. He went through several experiments about the brain. I found myself feeling uncomfortable that I have so little control over my own brain. But, I also felt better realizing no one else does either!
I am going to continue to work at retraining my brain in any way I can. This website, the sharing and caring here, and the fascinating articles are all helping me do that.
Hi fight! Most definitely agree with you! I love your natural disaster analogy. Very astute 🙂 I think my next big step in my healing process will be to let go of the anger and forgive him and myself. Easier said than done. I need to feel the anger a bit longer, because I want to allow myself that human emotion and work through it before I can let it go. Oddly I sometimes dont feel justified in the anger because of what has been mentioned in this thread often: I still think of him as human. So frustrating to be stuck in that mindset. So first I have to forgive myself. For not seeing his true intentions. Base intentions. For falling hard and fast . For expressing affection to someone who didn’t want it. For being that open and loving and not being able to rein it in. Then I can forgive him I’m sure once I’ve taken care of myself. He won’t know. He won’t care, I get that. Forgiving him is for me, not him. I’m not there yet. But I don’t need him to know I’m ok. (hence my username)
toknowimok: You will get there because you will love yourself now. Loving myself more than the disastrous spath has been so hard, but I will get there. Who wants to love a natural disaster? We hate them. They ruin lives and kill people. I am glad my analogy helped you. They aren’t human, so as soon as we realize that just because they look like humans, doesn’t mean they are, we can get over a disaster better than a human looking creature who tore through our lives.
Thanks fight! Yes, I’m still grappling with feelings of worthlessness,although logically I understand that i am not worthless. It’s tough right now. Thank God for therapy, family, friends, and of course lovefraud.com! I’m definitely not in a place to start dating again, that’s for sure. That possibility seems so remote right now, but it’s better this way now. I need to take all the time I need to feel good about myself again
I like what you said, this is starting to make sense to me 🙂
Meredith
The thing about karma I was referring to is not that it brought 2 people together its more “what goes around comes around.” I am seeing that is an error of belief in some ways as that would mean my being assaulted severely was in return for me having done horrible things… I am finally starting to see that my wishing for some sort of karma to step in is wishing for revenge, which means I still care, which I do not. So after reading this post and comments, and attending my abuse support group, I am detaching even further to the point he doesnt exist anymore. I think I indirectly wanted him to know I was doing ok by having my facebook public for quite a while now, but I just made it private again because it doesnt matter. Baby steps
Wow, Salvation2012! This is a great post. Congratulations on your hard work as you continue to get out of its path. If I ever have the capability to have a love relationship again, I am going to be looking for a “goal mate” and not a “soul mate.” Someone who has the same life beliefs and goals I do and who wants to journey towards those goals with me.
Donna is spot on. The “karma” part bothered me also, until I realized that when you are totally devoid of ANY emotion, how can we expect even some of the worst to effect them?
It wont. Not in this life. However, after seven years, I finally saw ONE sociopath get some just rewards. He collapsed in a major airport from a heart attack. Survived, but now has a stent keeping him alive. I am sure there are more of those collapsed arteries…somewhere.
It doesn’t matter. They will face their justice after this life.
I was married to mine for 15 years and together 17 years. He cheated on me THREE times and I stayed. What the hell? I was jobless and had two young children. Not too much of a choice and I thought he would change. Naaah….never. I have learned.
Walks away from our marriage and the two children that he was the “stepfather” to for 15 years. They were 7 and 12 when we married. Nothing to say to them either because he only “attached” to us for his own purposes in the long run.
New girlfriend is so happy and pleased that he found his way from my rants as he drove off from our home leaving me bankrupt and penniless.
yep. don’t look for the payback in this life, but understand and accept the piece of garbage that you just happened at one time to “love”, actually belonged at the curb for trash pick up.
I have decided that I really don’t like living with human garbage.
If most sociopaths are like MY ex,the consequences they face are
1)insecurity.
They re always up shit creek so to speak.Trying to scam people on a daily basis to survive is a tough life.
2)no continuity
Bounce from person to person without connecting and feeling satisfied.They might get a thrill ripping you off but that s very short term and not enough to make up for the panic of losing what they have on a daily basis.
3)Constant frustration
The big picture for them never seems attainable.They eventually have to do some immoral or illegal act to try(in their minds)to achieve their goals.
As an added note…my ex tried calling me from jail again last weekend to bail her out.Picked up this time for failing to pay child support.I didn t answer as I have not answered ANY of her calls from jail since I told her to get lost(a year ago this week).
She s only tried to contact me while in jail(two shoplifting,one destruction of property-her old apartment-and this one.)Never apologized to me for horrific behavior and lying —no remorse,in fact she texted me that I was an idiot for not figuring out her lies earlier.Anyways…she s paid plenty since I left her.
Sam,
You’re welcome, and now your last post has inspired me, too. 🙂 It is so important to really feel – and feel deeply – the feelings of betrayal, the anger, the abandonment, and the loss. But we can experience all this and still hold them in the light and experience them as feelings we are experiencing but not all of who we are. We are so much more than all of this. And from this “bigger” place we can look inside and direct our healing process, deciding when and how we want to process something and let go of it, rather than letting the feelings control us. We can ask for help, not only from counselors and friends, but from our spiritual guides – seen and unseen. They are really there to help us.
It is so important that when you find that spark of excitement like you mentioned in your last post that you nurture it. For me, dancing and travel give me my joy in life, so I fill my life with those things, in spite of my issues. When I travel and dance, I take my issues with me, but then I have fun stories to tell and it attracts more fun into my life – fun people, fun events, and happy situations. Sometimes, it’s hard to find that spark when you still need to do the rage/anger work. Understandable – that is the root of depression, when anger is turned inward. But when that spark is there, nurture it and fan the flames of it. It will ignite and suddenly the issues will seem smaller and more workable. Focusing on the person who hurt you continuously for a long period of time zaps this excitement in your own life. It takes the locus of self-control off you and puts it onto the other person. If you can redirect that locus of control onto yourself, you’re a good part of the way there. So many people get stuck in the anger/blaming stage and never get out of it. You can never count on another person to be in charge of your own happiness. Never.
In July, 2008, the latespath posted a comment that translated into ‘he was so thankful that my mother went blind 6 years earlier because her problem allowed him to enter the world of sex for money’, after all he couldn’t admit his cimes; this in reply to a birthday greeting post from an escort and echoed by other escorts and johns. 3 months and 10 days later, he was suddenly dead at the ripe old age of just over 55.
A friend of mine wrote to me saying that he hoped the spath died a painful death. When I told him, ‘nope, I found him dead on the basement floor in a sleeping position his head on a pillow’, my friend replied “damn, it’s not fair’.
He did, at times, experience the consequences of his actions. When he showed up in 1998 after a peaceful 5 year absence, he looked like a unkempt, of the worse sort, street person not an Ivy League lawyer with 18 years experience which he had the credentials to be. He had every creditor known to mankind after him. He had people in the neighborhood report him to the police as a suspicious person/stalker. He had his car repossessed. His drivers license taken away. He couldn’t easily find employment, irrespective of his academic credentials.
He just didn’t care. After all, ‘it was always someone else’s fault, usually mine’.
He ended up a un-caught criminal, a thief, a forger, a fraudster, a perpetrator of elder/handicap financial abuse and even, as I have been told by lawyers and psychologists, a killer, guilty of negligent homicide, all of that in addition to running a brothel; his only associates were in the world of escorting, people who either forgot about him or chose to disassociate themselves from him, very shortly after he died even though he spent well over a million dollars in their sub-world; he was an abuser of me, pets, people’s humanness, and life itself, eventually that abuse turned into drugs and excessive drinking while in the escorting life-style; most of all he ended up totally alone with no one to acknowledge his presence on earth. I asked about him on his high school and other alumni sites and no one responded. His ashes are unclaimed, even his mother didn’t want them.
There was no one to celebrate his life; there was just plain no one.
He was simultaneously living in so many worlds that he wrote “once upon a time I thought I knew which was real, I no longer am sure”.
No one’s body and heart can escape from the pressures of the multiple lives he was living.
The last words my son said to him were ‘grow up, just leave, get out of here’.
The consequences his life left me are unreal and much poorer. I fight everyday, writing here is one way of fighting. My pets keep me going. I am here.
lost: Thank you for sharing your story. You ARE here and your voice is being heard HERE.
lost everything,
WOW!Keep writing and may your heart heal! Pets aren’t just man’s best friend~~~they can be a woman’s best friend as they are loyal and caring!