By Ox Drover
Donna’s great article about Victory, of a sort, over a sociopath the other day got me to thinking.
Just what is “victory?”
My wonderful stepfather was a young basketball coach when he got his first real job coaching for a very small rural school which had not had a winning game in over a decade. The team was dispirited and had no real expectation of ever winning a game.
One of the local coaches bragged that he would beat them “by a hundred points!” at the next game. The team thought there was a good possibility that that coach’s team could do just that. However, it is “good sportsmanship” for a coach playing a much weaker team to let their second, third, and fourth strings get a chance to play, and to win over the weaker team, but not “tromp” them.
Daddy thought this other coach’s brag to stomp and tromp his team was poor sportsmanship so he made a plan. When the fourth quarter started and Daddy’s team had the ball, they “froze” it (which was legal in the game then) and wouldn’t either shoot the ball or take a chance on losing it, so passed the ball from one of Daddy’s team members to another the entire quarter. They didn’t make any points, but they kept the other team from even getting their hands on the ball the entire quarter, and thus making points against them. Daddy’s team didn’t win, but the other coach didn’t win by his “hundred points” either. That little team went on the next year to win their division championship because of the confidence that Daddy inspired in them.
Sometimes “winning” or “victory” can be interpreted in different ways. I’m also reminded of the old Country and Western song, the “Winner” where an older man and a younger man are in a bar talking. The younger man wants to be a “winner” in bar fight brawls, and the older man is educating him on what is “winning” and what isn’t.
Sure, you can get into a fight and you may inflict more damage on your opponent than he inflicts on you in the fight, but like the old man said, “He gouged out my eye, but I won.” Sometimes it is better to walk away from a fight and not lose more than you have already lost, or allow your opponent to take another “pound of flesh” in your attempts to “get justice.”
It isn’t always about getting what you deserve, or victory over them, or even seeing that they get “what they so richly deserve,” sometimes, I think, “winning” simply means keeping them from taking more out of you and, like Daddy’s team, “freezing the ball.” Sometimes, it is like the would-be barroom brawler, walking away (intact) with the other guy yelling curses in your direction.
It is emotionally tough to watch a cheater “get away with it” when they have ripped us off, and go “waltzing away” unscathed and apparently the victor. It eats at our sense of fairness to let them “succeed” and not pay a price for their bad behavior.
Yet, sometimes, “discretion is the better part of valor” to use an old phrase, or to “be a live dog, rather than a dead lion,” and “retreat and live to fight another day.”
Those victims who are not able to fight for a “victory” of any sort, I don’t think need to feel that they have “failed” because they chose not to fight the sociopath.
Too many times fighting the psychopaths are like “fighting a circular saw,” as my grandmother would have said. It “just isn’t worth it,” because the damage to yourself will be worse than you can possibly inflict on the psychopath. They stack the odds so in their own favor, that even if you “win,” you end up like the old brawler sitting in the barroom, broken and so gravely injured yourself in your effort to gain a “victory, of sorts” that in retrospect the price was too high.
Sometimes, it is better to walk away a “loser” but still intact, and with your head held high, using the energy and resources you have left to focus on healing yourself, on recovering what you have lost in terms of finances and strength, and take care of yourself. To me that is also a “viable victory.”
I don’t know Lily very well, but I do feel as though we are all part of the same family here. I hope she knows people here (even those who don’t know her well) are thinking about her and sending love. Even though she has been to hell and back in her life, I think having so many people care about her makes her a great success in her life IMO.
GorgeousGem:
God has put you in Lily’s path to serve her and you have been truly wonderful in your service. Please send her my love too and tell her we all miss her . Maybe we can all put in for a laptop so she can blog from hospital?
xo
Oxy:
I just read your blog “including Tilly” re: my “rightousness and projection”… In the context it was in i was being what we call over here, “bullied’ by kim frederick and Jill smith and now it seems you are joining them on this topic. Good for YOU Oxy! I well know that i am not the only one here that needs to heal. Not am i apsychopath or narcissist or (cluster B, like some of the bullies).
I have right to express my opinion and if i want to be angry any place anywhere..I will! I told you I am not “pointing the gun” at YOU!! ( I don’t OWN a f#N GUN! and if I did I wouldn’t know how to SHOOT IT. I have tyrouble standing on a cockroach. I am small in size.
And in OZ we are taught from a very young age to STAND UP TO ALL THE BULLIES OR “GANGS” and on that particular blog I did!!
I’m going back to court. But it was great being here.
P.S.
Re that article about “thoughts” . I DO GET IT! And I DON”T AGREE in the airy fairy affirmations or that view. And guess what? I am allowed to NOT AGREE!!
Dear Gemini,
I know that your support and small gifts meant so much to Lily, she is a real darling woman!
Yes, she held (holds) on to the malignant hope that we are wrong about our psychopathic children and if we just “clarify” what we want to say to them, that they will understand.
It isn’t a LOGICAL thing, of course, but an emotional thing, and it is the “lie to ourselves” to keep from believing a truth so terrible and devestating that we have trouble dealing with it.
I would have more money if I received a dime for every lie I have told MYSELF than I could if I had $5 for every lie the Ps have told me! LOL Denial is a POWERFUL thing and in moderation and at the right time, it is a life saver, a sanity saver, but prolonged denial keeps us from ACTING on the truth we don’t want to believe.
No matter how someone explains it to us, or how kindly they explain it to us, until WE are READY to face the TRUTH and take ACTION both mentally, and physically, it won’t sink in to our “thick skulls” I love what MaryJo B named her book!
God alone knows just how THICK my skull is. I have tried to treat OTHERS with consideration, compassion and caring, but FAILED to treat myself that way! I’ve been super hard on myself, but allowed others to act out, act up, and abuse me and others, and have failed to take care of myself.
Learning to DISENGAGE emotionally has been a difficult thing for me, learning to let their “words” slide off me like “water off a duck’s back” and not internalize them has been a challenge. I am “getting” that part most of the time, with a few really zinger set backs LOL! I’ve always been seeking “approval” from my family, no matter what they did. That doesn’t work, because our approval of ourselves and our actions needs to be internal. Not that if someone wants to discuss something with us that we won’t listen, because we should listen to those who care about us, but we should not stand still while they abuse us. We should not strike back, but DISENGAGE either for a time, or sometimes, forever (NC).
I’m going to call Lily’s room at the hospital and see if I can get her or maybe one of the nurses will answer. IF I find out anything new I will let you guys know. In the meantime, all we can do is to PRAY. (((HUGS)))
Thank you Skippy and Justabouthealed.
I don’t know Lily, but, I am convinced that being subjected to continued stress, rejection and betrayal can cause all kinds of health problems. She is certainly lucky to have such supportive friends…maybe not a substitute for loving children…but, a great healer nevertheless.
My boys (29 and 31) have been treating me badly as well. They learned from the “Master” – and even though I used that as an excuse for a long time – I finally had enough. I told my sons, my family and my friends – if you can’t or won’t treat me with respect – you are not welcome in my life. If I wanted to be treated like a doormat I could have stayed with “Lucifer”.
One of my sons has Borderline Personality Disorder…he has no conscience – like his father and his grandfather. It took me a long time to realize that he wasn’t going to change and have cried bitter tears over the loss of my baby boy. He has lied to me since he was little…has done things I don’t want to think about…mostly, I feel overwhelmingly sad that he will never have a good relationship with me or any other woman.
I helped him, believed in him, encouraged him, loved him…but, nothing helped. Somehow, he always lands on his feet and finds well-paying jobs – but, he lies to get them. He feels entitled to the best treatment – the biggest pay checks – the prettiest girls – the most expensive cars, and stole from me to get it. I finally decided to disengage. He is not going to change and I don’t have the power to change him.
My older son is kinder, and definitely not a Sociopath…but, he
is angry with me because his father has fed him a pack of lies. We have never been very close, especially after he joined the military and became a “Blackhawk helicopter pilot” for the Army medics. He spent three years in Korea (with his wife from college) then, he was deployed to Afganistan. He left the Army last year and started working for Johnson and Johnson. Whenever I call – he doesn’t answer. If I leave a message – he doesn’t call back. When I ask him how long I should wait for a return call or an e-mail reply – he talks to me exactly like his father: “I was so busy with work, but, you are right – you deserve to be treated with respect…I am sorry…I won’t do it again.” And, then, he does it again.
I am tired of walking on eggshells. We teach people how to treat us…and I taught everyone that I don’t hold grudges. The message was: Do whatever you want – I might not like it and speak up or cry or lock myself in a room – but, after a while – I will get over it and take some more of the abuse.
They were happy and I was suffering. I wanted to be like Jesus, Ghandi, Buddha, Mother Teresa…love unconditionally. I truly believed that love will conquer evil. Little did I know that loving kindness might impact “normal” disfunctional people – but, it doesn’t work with NPD’s or Sociopaths or hard core abusers.
I have read every book on the subject…have gone to therapy for years…have talked and written about this topic ad nauseum…and there are times when I feel that I have made progress – baby steps in the right direction. Then, my ex thinks of something else to torture me – and I crumble. Two months ago he talked my oldest son into becoming our mediator. It blew my mind. My son never wanted to hear about the divorce or the litigation…suddenly he wanted to be a mediator? For what? My ex signed a Separation and Property Settlement agreement years ago. He just didn’t want to abide by it. And, because I refuse to re-negotiate with him – he gets our son involved. I told my son “Please don’t get involved or our relationship will suffer.” He felt sorry for his father. How hurtful.
It does take less time to get back on my feet…I get up in the morning and think about all the things I am grateful for…and there are many. Aside from being one of the more accomplished realist artists in the D.C. area – I have a beautiful home with a studio where I can teach – I have exhibitions and sell my art work. My students call me “Professor of Life and Art” and think I can walk on water 🙂 I don’t have to be afraid of my sociopathic husband walking through the door. I really like myself again and can do whatever I want.
I just wish my ex would stop taking me to court…to be honest with you all…I wish he stopped existing…definitely not very Buddha-like.
Wishing you all a wonderful day.
Petra
I have been lurking for about 6 months. Give big HEARTFELT thanks to all the HONESTY that is circulating among us who are developing discernment. (NOT VICTIMS).
Maintaining No Contact with the Unbearable Love Thief was so very very impossible for me that I had to call in a Higher Power…..
A Psalm of David.
King James Version
101:1 I will sing of mercy and judgment: unto thee, O LORD, will I sing.
101:2 I will behave myself wisely in a perfect way. O when wilt thou come unto me? I will walk within my house with a perfect heart.
101:3 I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me.
101:4 A froward heart shall depart from me: I will not know a wicked person.
101:5 Whoso privily slandereth his neighbour, him will I cut off: him that hath an high look and a proud heart will not I suffer.
101:6 Mine eyes shall be upon the faithful of the land, that they may dwell with me: he that walketh in a perfect way, he shall serve me.
101:7 He that worketh deceit shall not dwell within my house: he that telleth lies shall not tarry in my sight.
101:8 I will early destroy all the wicked of the land; that I may cut off all wicked doers from the city of the LORD.
I had a history or powerlessly venting and lashing out and was bristley and felt entitled to act ugly due to previous hurts as mentioned above. I even acted ugly toward him once he revealed his true Snakely nature. When I was first targeted, he remade me by pouring on the love to the point where I softened beyond recognition. THEN out came the cruel trample and extraction of resources. The thing is I REALLY love this new soft self of mine and am not willing to let this peace go, not even for the one who gave it to me not even for money I feel owed. I love this new self so much, that I resolved to KEEP it and to be unshakable in it. So when I feel weak for the Squandering Evicerator, which is nearly every minute of EVERY SINGLE DAY, I just keep Psalm 101 going and it works WONDERS. Back when the Beautiful Liar was still “appearing”, he had money in his hand for me!!! I was soft, sweet, mild mannered and confident (NOT GIVING – NO FOOD, NO SEX, NO KEYS, NO COMFORT, NO UTILITIES, NO SOLACE) and POOF, with no anxiety, fretfulness, ugly behavior on my part, he vanished within minutes ON HIS OWN like magic and now STAYS GONE. With Psalm 101, I am able to retain the soft well loved feeling that I enjoyed under his “attentive care” while at the same time relaxing because I KNOW that I am SAFE and my interests are surely protected. NC on my part since I called him to get himself checked for VD!!!! Which of course he used to attack me. Unflappably, I said, think, say, do what you want, I don’t care, I know what I’m doing. NO CONTACT with anyone or anything that in anyway dimisnhes me and mine.
Psalm 101
Septuagint Masoretic
A Psalm of David.
101:1 I will sing to thee, O Lord, of mercy and judgment; I will sing a psalm,
101:2 and I will be wise in a blameless way. When wilt thou come to me? I walked in the innocence of my heart, in the midst of my house.
101:3 I have not set before mine eyes any unlawful ting; I have hated transgressors.
101:4 A perverse heart has not cleaved to me; I have not known an evil man, forasmuch as he turns away from me.
101:5 Him that privily speaks against his neighbour, him have I driven from [me]: he that is proud in look and insatiable in heart,– with him I have not eaten.
101:6 Mine eyes [shall be] upon the faithful of the land, that they may dwell with me: he that walked in a perfect way, the same ministered to me.
101:7 The proud doer dwelt not in the midst of my house; the unjust speaker prospered not in my sight.
101:8 Early did I slay all the sinners of the land, that I might destroy out of the city of the Lord all that work iniquity.
Dear everyone,
It gives me no pleasure at all to tell you, that the last email but one I sent to NewLilys home email, I gave her the following advice,{ based on my own treacherous adult kids behaviour over the years}I said to her,”If you have the SLIGHTEST inkling that your ONE daughter who is still in contact with you could be any of the following,PLEASE I advise you, tell her NOT to come to look after you post-op.”
a] if you suspect she may be a “Trojan Horse” for the other adult kids, to spread upset, gossip, and discuss you.
b] If you suspect she may also be a spy in the camp for your ex husband.
I said if you feel your daughter may say or do ANY of these things, tell her NOT to come!!.
I even said”,How do you know she wont tell your ex about your forthcoming op, even tho she swears not to do this?.Do you trust her?”
c}If she makes you feel in any way beholden to her, that she may patronise you, gaslight you, belittle you in any way, or make you feel guilty she has lost wages by coming to care for you.I advised her to contact her town council offices to see whether she qualified for nursing home care, free, and perhaps someone to clean and cook for her free of charge, or a small charge to her.I said “if she makes you feel uncomfortable in ANY way, or you suspect she may prove to be a trojan horse or make trouble for you with her siblings, or ex,PLEASE tell her NOT to come, you will manage fine without her”.She emailed me back to say she had spoken to her, and felt reassured the daughter meant well, and had her interests at heart.Now it seems, sadly, that my forebodings were spot on, and that my warnings were not heeded.Its all very sad. poor Lily. our prayers are with her. I hope the hospital staff keep her one “FRIENDLY”,{not] daughter AWAY from her, she has done enough damage and I thought this would happen. Sadly, it has.Gem.XX These p children are not even human.
Petra:
You have a lot to be thankful for……and you seem to be!
That is WONDERFUL!
Most days I wish my ex would be maimed by a shark…..not killed, but put down and needing caring for….forever! So he can lay in a bed and rely on others and no one will be there for his poor pity party! Then it may become clear just how much he fucked up his family and his life!
When i heard about the tsunami in Samoa yesterday and the ‘watch’ in Hawaii….I knew he would be in the water……I immediately thought OOOOHHHHH!
YES….terrible thoughts, but I know he is not done with us yet……and I am in a peaceful zone with him not being around…..BUT he conveniently left a ‘few’ items the court ordered were his here and this is his way of having an excuse and I know when the harassment/stalking order is up next year…..He’ll be back….just like Arnold.
I DIGRESS…..
Damn, look at that rant!
I agree with you on wanting to be likeGhandi, Mother Teresa etc…..I too thought I could help him…..surely he didn’t know what he was doing to his family…..
I also found out the hard way….
This is what they counted on from us…..
In my ‘wait’ for the S to ‘return’…..I worry about my kids….One shows signs of major issues….and I am scarred sick he will be like his father……
I know there may come a day (soon) where I have to let him go from my life…..this bothers me to no end!
My son has been ‘punishing’ me here and there…..so who the hell knows what punishments I have coming…..he tend to up the anti when he knows he can’t get to me…..he definately hit’s below the belt…just like dear old dad….
I just can’t ignore what I know……He is a minor currently….but I will not take the abuse once he is 18…..
So at times…..I feel like my breath is holding……All the shit will either hit the fan or not by July of next year….so I am trying to stay in today….
It is unbelievable the ‘hold’ they have on children…..how your adult son thinks HE can be the one to ‘talk some sense’ into you guys……it is just wrong they put the kids….of any age, in this position and the kids feel obligated……they sure don’t want the wrath of the S!
I am grateful for what I do have, I am proud of how far I have come. How strong I know I am and how much I have learned.
Like you…..we are warriors….and there is happiness in our lives along with the pain!
I will NOT stop laughing!
I am so glad you are opening up here…..It’s healthy for you to read your writings and receive teh support we all need!
Sorry I turned this about me……But I want to let you know…..Your on the right tract…..keep learning and keep growing….
Everything is gonna be alright!
XXOO
EB
Gem:
You are learning through others experiences, offering them hope and lessons of reality.
Please do not feel as if you could have done anything different!
I too wish I could reach out and throddle the daughters……How callous and harsh…..
Like oxy said….there is nothing we can do for Lily except keep her in our prayers and thoughts.
You are a wonderful friend to her…..please don’t bear the burdon of others actions.
Rest peacefully knowing you are her friend and have her best interests at heart.
Lily, like all of us, wishes I am sure she was wrong about her children…..unfortunately she wasn’t.
We can all learn from her experience…..it is not in vain.
There are some people that live to be ‘right’……I know you had wished you were wrong here……
You will learn from lily’s experience this is why you both bonded and reached out…..
I believe….everything happens for a reason……maybe this is Lily’s gift to you.
Whatever the case, you are her friend and you will always be there to offer her a hand up and a shoulder to lean on…..
I am so very proud of you gem!!!
XXOO