By Ox Drover
Something occurred recently that set my mind to thinking. My best friend who lives another state came to visit me for a couple of weeks. This friend has known me about 30 years, so has known both of my biological sons, including the psychopathic one, since they were kids. She has “been there” for me through all the trauma, the disappointments and the pain. She was there for me when my husband died in the aircraft crash and my adopted son was burned. She was there for me and for my oldest son when his wife tried to kill him. So she has seen many of the psychopaths I have dealt with “up close and personal” and she has seen the toxic enabling my mother has done and is doing with my P-son by sending him money, even after he tried to have me killed. There is no one on earth who can reasonably “validate” that I have been the victim of multiple psychopaths during my life than she can.
I remember when I went to the EMDR (rapid eye movement therapist). During my first intake interview, which lasted over two hours, as I detailed the large numbers of psychopaths who were conspiring to have me killed and had run me out of my home in fear of my life, the man very politely listened and showed interest in my tale of woe, which could almost be labeled “Pitiful Pauline’s Terrible Trials,” to use an old serial movie title. At the end of the session, he was careful to word his request, since I had told him I was a retired medical and mental health professional, that I “bring in someone to confirm” my stories, which to him, I don’t doubt, sounded like the ramblings of a “paranoid delusional schizophrenic.” When he made this request, in his very diplomatic manner, I actually threw back my head and laughed and said, “Yep, I do sound like a paranoid schizophrenic, I know, but I will be glad to bring in both witnesses and documentation to verify my stories.” Which, the next visit, I brought in court documents and rap sheets and mug shots, newspaper clippings, and my adopted son to verify that I wasn’t just “paranoid,” that there were indeed a conspiracy of psychopaths “out to get me.”
My own tall tales
Because I have lived a life that is pretty much out of the norm for a kid who grew up in the boondocks of rural Arkansas, and in some instances, done some things that are sort of along the lines of an “Indiana Jones” character, I learned pretty early in my young adult life that many people will disbelieve you if you “tell exciting stories” that are too far off the “norm” of most people’s lives. They view you more in the line of someone who, like my neighbor, “Crazy Bob,” tells tales of his years in the FBI, CIA, his Congressional Medal of Honor, his 5,000 parachute jumps, and him being a Navy Seal, all the while being too dumb to know that no one has ever made 5,000 parachute jumps.
Even if “Crazy Bob’s” stories are unbelievable to most people, some of my stories are as unbelievable, of flying cargos of live animals in and out of South America in a salvaged WWII B-25 bomber, or living in the bush for months at a time, or catching thousand-pound crocodiles at night from a 25 ft. canoe in the delta of the Nile, or the crazy camel driver at the pyramids who was paid to let me ride his camel. The only differences between my unbelievable stories and “Crazy Bob’s” are that I can prove mine with photographs, newspaper articles, passport stamps, pilot’s log books and other documents as well as living witnesses who were there with me.
A man who has been my friend for about 15 years told me, “When I first met you, I thought you were some kind of ”˜blow hard’ who made up these outlandish stories, it wasn’t until later, I realized that you were telling the truth.” This man is not the first, but I do hope, will be one of the last people who “hears my stories” and disbelieves because they sound “so outlandish, no one could have done all those things, or had so many psychopaths target them.”
Is every jerk a psychopath?
Even my friend of 30-plus years asked me as I was chattering on about some guy I thought to be a psychopath, “Are you starting to label everyone you know who is a jerk, a psychopath?”
This comment sort of surprised me, so I said, “No, I don’t think so, let me tell you why I think this man is a psychopath, though I didn’t realize it at the time I had a business interaction with him. First, he left his wife of 25 years while she was dying of cancer, leaving her destitute and alone, then he showed up at her funeral with his girlfriend sitting beside him, then he stole the inheritance of the daughter of a deceased friend after he had gotten himself appointed the executor, and then I added a few more incidents to his “psychopathic con-man resume.”
My friend then replied, “Yea, he does sound like a psychopath.”
Psychopaths I have known
Not too long ago I sat down and decided to make a “list of the psychopaths I have known, been related to, and/or who had hurt me/others significantly in interactions with them.” First off, of course, was my “sperm donor psychopath”, and I actually know of two men he killed. One of my maternal g-grandfathers was an abusive alcoholic. My “egg donor’s” brother, Uncle Monster, was a vicious, violent wife-beating, woman-hating man. Then there was Charles “Jackie” Walls III, who was a Boy Scout leader in our small town who was tried and convicted and sentenced to life without parole for the over 1,500 cases of child molestation that are known of. There was the covertly psychopathic teacher I had in nursing school whom I saw over and over persecute and target certain students, primarily males, for several years. Though she never targeted me, I finally became so afraid of her that in the middle of the program, I changed universities and drove 40 miles further for the last two years of my schooling just to get away from her.
I also listed covertly vicious physicians and nurses I had worked with for quite some time, directors of programs I had worked with, business partners of my husband who literally stole his business and bankrupted it, working together, and lying in depositions to the court. (One of them did, later, go to prison for conviction in a very similar scam in which they got caught, but they got away with the scam against my husband.)
All in all, when I finished the list of people that I had known closely enough to know their histories and to see some of their covertly malicious behavior targeting others or targeting businesses, I had, just off the top of my head, a list of 45 people that I knew who would have rated at least a 20, and more likely a 30, on the PCL-R. Many of these people were “respected” physicians, attorneys, Boy Scout leaders, psychological counselors, psychiatrists, surgeons, school teachers, police men, ministers, prison officials, prison guards, college presidents, businessmen, politicians, media stars, and others were “known” and convicted convicts and ex-convicts. Some few were “overt” psychopaths committing murder and other crimes of violence and not caring who knew they were “dangerous.” Others were “covert” psychopaths trying to protect their “public mask” of kind and caring people.
Of course, at the time I was working with or interacting with these people I had no idea that they were “toxic” and “dangerous,” and their public face, in “responsible” positions of college president, or minister of a church, was intact. Even when in some few cases I was actually warned that these people couldn’t be trusted, I didn’t listen to the warnings. When they began to target me and to covertly attack me (“stab me in the back” is the common vernacular) I felt the knife go in, but couldn’t for the life of me figure out why! Of course they were smiling and “playing nice” as they stabbed me, and if I “whined” about the pain I was feeling, then they “couldn’t understand” why I should be feeling and sensing that I was being attacked, of course they didn’t see any “knife in my back.”
Overt and covert
I had learned after the encounter with my sperm donor, who was an openly violent man and “proud” of his homicidal violence, to stay away from overtly dangerous people. I had taken great pains to stay away from the “low lifes” in the community, the heavy-drinking, fighting, strutting “bad boys.”
What I hadn’t learned until the last couple of years, though, is that there are probably, I estimate, six or eight “covert” psychopaths for every one or two “overtly” violent psychopaths. Though Scot Peterson and the BTK killer were actually very physically violent to their victims, they tried to present to the public this “good guy” mask to hide their psychopathic violence. These men were eventually convicted of their violent activities, just as Charles “Jackie” Walls III was convicted and his mask of “community leader and Boy Scout leader” was jerked off his face.
Not every “domestic abuser” goes to jail or makes the statistics. I don’t know what the real statistics are of overt and covert domestic violence, and I am sure that no one else knows, either, of the men/women who physically assault their spouses behind closed doors and nothing is ever known by anyone except the victim and the abuser. Many times, I think, not even the children in the family know the truth of what goes on behind “mommy’s and daddy’s bedroom door.” Unfortunately, too many of the victims take the shame of the beatings on to themselves, and “keep the family secrets” intact.
The statistical estimates of “how many psychopaths are there?” range from 1 percent to 4 percent of the general population, while about 20 percent of incarcerated felons are rated as psychopathic. While many victims may only recognize one psychopath in their lives, there are others of us who have repeatedly been targeted by them.
Crossing paths with psychopaths
Why us in particular? Possibly, we were born into a family highly populated with overt or covert psychopaths. Possibly we are adventurous and, as many psychopaths engage in high-risk or adventurous professions or past-times, we come into contact with a “pool” highly populated by psychopaths due to the adventurousness of our profession or recreational activities.
I spent time working for my sperm donor as a wildlife photographer in South and Central America, Europe, Africa and the American west, and the adventurousness of the profession attracts people who are highly involved in “risk taking” activities like self employment, film production, international travel, general aviation, and dangerous hunting activities. Therefore, it isn’t surprising to me, looking back now, that several of the men who were involved in my sperm donor’s enterprises were psychopaths.
Though my late husband was a man addicted to a “high-risk” and adventurous profession, general aviation, he was not a psychopath, but that profession brought him into contact with my sperm donor, and also many other psychopaths. Many were wealthy, famous and infamous men that, in retrospect, I consider high in narcissistic and/or psychopathic traits, Richard Nixon for one.
Identifying the psychopath
Learning to identify people with “covert” psychopathic traits in the “wild” is much more difficult than identifying “overtly dangerous” people with psychopathic traits, since most of the people who are “overtly dangerous” will swagger around “looking like a thug” and wanting to impress you with their potential for violence. It is sort of like the difference between the pit bull dog who bares his teeth and growls, versus the dog that quietly sneaks up behind you and sinks his teeth into your calf without any warning growl.
In either case, the best test of either the overt or the covert psychopath is their behavior, rather than what they say. If you observe someone do something (anything) to another person that you deem unjustified, ugly, nasty, hateful, revengeful, etc., then you should be very careful around that person and be watchful of them.
A friend of mine who was a dean of students at a prestigious college was literally sexually attacked by one of her fellow vice-presidents of that college; fortunately she was able to get away from him. Six months later, though, when he was appointed the new college president, his first act was to fire her. She hadn’t seen it coming. She was not only devastated, but was shocked and surprised. She shouldn’t have been. She had been warned that this man was a psychopath by his drunken sexual attack, but she kept her mouth shut at that time rather than “cause a stir.” Later, her silence at the time of the attack cost her her job.
The covert psychopaths count on people being “peace keepers” and keeping their mouths shut about observed bad behavior. They also count on “small” instances of bad behavior being over looked, even though these “minor” transgressions of “niceness” add up to a large mountain of bad behavior over the long haul.
Another thing that is against our being validated when we observe and “label” these instances of psychopathic behavior is the lack of validation we get from others who also know this person, but are not nearly as aware of what it “means” as we (former victims) are. They may pass off the behavior as “Oh, that’s just John” or “Well, he probably didn’t mean it that way” or “Oh, just get along and play nice.”
The covert psychopath may not be physically violent at all, but instead, may only engage in emotional and mental abuse of his/her victims by demeaning and degrading them with subtle put downs. The covert psychopath may also do financial or career damage to their targets, and a covert smear campaign against a co-worker or boss can destroy a career or a reputation.
No understandable motive
Because we, many times, fail to see a “motive” that we can understand for the behavior of the covert psychopath, it makes it difficult for us (and others) to believe that “s/he would do that,” because we cannot see what s/he would gain. Unfortunately, many times the “motive” of the psychopath is the same answer as the mountain climber gave for climbing a very difficult peak, “Just because it’s there and I wanted to prove I could do it.”
It might be fairly easy, you would think, to spot the “overt bad boys” by going to a “bad part of town” or “gang turf” and looking at the guys swaggering in and out of bars or selling drugs on the street and say “that guy acts like a psychopath,” and you might even be right in your assessment, but maybe not. But you can’t be sure you are not dealing with a psychopath at a debutante ball, or a civic meeting, or a political rally, a church group, or a business meeting either, because the fact that people there are cleaner, better educated and dress nicer doesn’t make them less apt to be a psychopath.
My sperm donor used to tell the press that he was “eccentric” and “the reason he was ”˜eccentric,’ instead of ”˜crazy’ was because he was rich!” Unfortunately, I think in many ways he was right, as people who are in a powerful position because of fame, money or other reasons, seem to be allowed more range in the behavior that is considered “acceptable” than those of us who are not so rich or powerful. Their power over other’s lives, finances, and emotions I think is what feeds their egos and their sense of entitlement to “control” others. Those of the human race who are not high in psychopathic and narcissistic traits don’t usually consider “control over others” to be a stand-alone motive to use, abuse and manipulate other’s lives for their own joy. That being said, it is difficult for us to see this as a viable motive in others who do have the psychopathic traits.
Survival skill
Detecting the covert psychopath in their “natural habit” becomes a necessary survival skill to minimize the damage that they can do to us. Whether their natural habitat is in the school room, the board room, the court room, the dining room, or the bedroom, we need to watch for the signs of deception and signs of lack of empathy, even the very subtle signs that these people have an ulterior motive in their interactions with us and/or others. We need to listen to our “guts” and our “intuition” and to validate this information ourselves, rather than doubt ourselves. Even if no one else on earth thinks that what “John is doing” is pathological, we need to have the self-awareness to watch out for ourselves if we spot a “red flag” of pathological behavior or attitude in someone.
To answer my best friend’s question again, I think I would add, “No, I am not labeling everyone who is a jerk a psychopath, but I am no longer excusing bad behavior on anyone’s part. I am keeping my eyes open for signs of people without moral compasses and I am distancing myself from them as far as I can.”
Wonderful article! I have wondered if I’m going to end up labeling every jerk a S/P/N so this is a very timely post for me. I never understood what the red flags meant, I also treated people as I would like to be treated (as breckgirl said) so I’ll have to read this article several times so it sinks in. I want to learn my lessons well!
I think sometimes we are quick to label jerks and bitch’s as a narcospath or a physcocreep. But hey who wants to be around a jerk or a bitch? I was offering Overwhelmed some advice on another thread, she is a newbie here and just coming to grips with the reality of who/what she is dealing with. But then it dawned on me, I really cant feel that overwhelming pain. I remember it, I understand it, I relate to what she is going through but I don’t feel it anymore. Must be like women describe labor pains and child birth. Or as NewLily was saying about that missing limb concept, it takes our minds time to catch up with reality. So I guess I survived. Has taken me well over one year to catch up with reality. I had many toxic people in mylife, my mother the biggest baddest narc of all, the reality of her hit me about 6 years ago, long before I ever new what a narc was, I just new the mother I had adored and worshipped all my life wanted me dead and I had to flee in the dark of nite with help of my son’s. Like Ox I lived in fear of her for many years, until she went into a nursing home and can no longer walk and carry a gun. Yes I have tall tales to tell, and when I used to tell them people looked at me like I was demented, so I have learned to keep the truth to myself, because so much of it is unbelievable. I dont need sympathy, and no way anyone could ever relate to my life story. But not everyone is a spath. Beside’s I think spaths know when we are targets and when we aren’t…Ox about a year ago you told me to get some back bone and pull up my big boy britches (remember?) well I think I have a wedgey….
bears repeating:
“The covert psychopaths count on people being “peace keepers” and keeping their mouths shut about observed bad behavior. They also count on “small” instances of bad behavior being over looked, even though these “minor” transgressions of “niceness” add up to a large mountain of bad behavior over the long haul.”
Great article, as always, dear Oxy!
What i would like to mark is that who had misfortune to get involved with P/D/Ns, also has a moral obligation and duty to educate ppl how to spot the fart even if it is not noisy nor smelly (sorry for being rude) .
Especially parents (mostly mothers) should NOT hide the truth from children, in the name or for the sake of some ilusonal “mental health” of a child, keeping him believe his/her Daddy loves him.
What is hard is that many women are ashamed (as if it is their fault) of humiliation/abuse and tend to hide it in public, thinking they are less worthy, assuming OWN pieace of guilt .
Like u, Oxy, i was in touch with many pers. disorded ppl, starting from my both parents. I was taught, as u was, to pretend it never hapened and forget and forgive.
I am still not ready to post my whole story, just this time i would like to point on one:
I never hided anything from my child and never made things look diferent than they really are. When first time she went out with boyfriend, i taught her never to deny or decline to see red flags.
Relation seemed nice, boy seemed nice, everything was OK..the only problem was that she gos some starnge alergy (she was 15) and breath obstructions, until once she nearly died. Than she told me boy slaped her, and she broke relation and stoped to meet him.
She told me: When FIRST time he was rough and he pushed me so i fell down, i thought its my fault, i sliped and lost my equilibrium..he loves me so much, he would never do that to me intentionally. When few days after he slapped me, i remembered your words: ” If anyone ever treat u bad or hurt u, IT IS FIRST TIME and just a BEGINING, and it will never stop, as long as u dont go NC”
So, telling her whats going on, explaning, teaching her, warning her about red flags and terrible mistake of denial to see red flags, spared her of great pain.
We have to teach our close ones, especially young ones, how to spot P/S/Ns, for they are as dangerous as drugs – close ur eyes at just one or two red flags…and u are IN THE PLAY, u start to be addictive, as drug users can become adictive after even 1-2 “highs”.
Thank u Oxy
Blessings to all
I have been reading these posts for a while and have wanted to post my story but it has taken me a while to get up the nerve. Here goes.
I met my husband 25 years ago and fell for him immediately even though there was something that bothered me about him. He was charming etc, but not nice. We did not see each other for a few years then he got in touch and poured on the charm again and acted like he was doing me a favor by being with me.
Two years ago I had finally had enough I had been thinking about leaving for years but did know how to go about it. I had five children and was a stay at home mom. I love my children dearly and wanted to protect them. Everytime I got pregnant ( birth control did not work for me) he would tell me how he could not handle it and tell me to have an abortion. I refused so therefore was punished the first time he had gone back to Ireland “to go to school” right before I found out , he did not come back until my son was 6 months old. He never once sent a penny, instead it was my problem. I made the biggest mistake of my life when I allowed him back in my life so that my son could have a father. At least I got 4 other children out of it.
I had never heard of sociopaths really until my then attorney asked me if my husband was one and I said “NO” I then went home and looked it up online and got sick to my stomach. It described him perfectly and I wasn’t crazy. It also scared the crap out of me. Especially the fact as to how they can manipulate the court system. All of my fears have come true.
I knew I would have to fight for money as he had over the years put everything in his name. Always had a good reason. Needed a new account for business and would get my name on there soon, yeah right. He started on my oldest son a year or so before I filed ( I think he knew it was coming but did not think I had the nerve) He told him that he did not have to listen to me etc. Then when I filed for divorce ( I had to live in the same house for 6 months as he would not leave) He started with both boys telling them they had to help him get “her” because she was ruining the family. A family he never had any time for. Things escalated and I had to get a PFA against him and even against my oldest who was 15 and hitting me. The day I did that he went to school and took my two boys. I have been fighting ever since. They live only 3 miles away and he has worked his majic on them. I even have a Psychologist who is testifying in court that they are suffering from severe Parental Alientation syndrome. As usual my husband says I brought it on myself. My custody case is in a few weeks. It has been going on for two years , we go to court and it gets put off again again. That is just for the custody, the divorce is a whole different story as is child support. He is self employed and does business out of the country so he is hiding money. and says he is destitute.
I am at the end of my rope, there are days I do not think I have it in me to keep fighting but I have my three girls with me and need to protect them. He is actually fighting for full custody of all five. My sons seem to be lost to me. Especially my oldest ( who I was so close to) My younger son needs me so much but is so afraid of being rejected by his father. He saw what happened to his sister when she said she would not take sides.
I am off now as it is tough writing this
While it is unfortunate there are so many evil people out there, it’s also important to note there are also sick people, in varying degrees. My point isn’t to feel sorry for or enable those who are sick while rejecting Psychopaths, Sociopaths and Narcissists.
My point is that, in order to be healthy and, at a minimum, emotionally safe, it’s important to reduce exposure to and heavy relational investment in anyone who sets off unhealthy radar. This can include individuals with other, less violent but harmful non-the-less, personality disorders.
Even a Codependent can manipulate, using kindness and helpfulness, to control the object of their affection. This is also someone who, while not overtly dangerous or negatively affecting, is not ready to participate in a mutually respectful relationship.
“is not ready to participate in a mutually respectful relationship.”
This is a really good point. It doesn’t really matter why a person isn’t ready to enjoy an adult relationship with other adults. No matter what, we have a right to disengage, firmly but gently, and look for the kind of relationships that are mutually beneficial.
Dear Momcooks,
I am so sorry that you went through all of this for so long and are still engaged in the battle. I am glad, however, that you landed here at LoveFraud, this is a healing place where you can tell your story and be validated—we have been through the fire as well with our own psychopaths and do understand some of what you have been through.
KNOWLEDGE=POWER so I suggest that you hang around and read as many of the old archived articles as you can, there are hundreds of them but they are usually short reads and have so much WISDOM and information in them. Feel free to post any time you wish, t6his is a very caring and supportive group of people here. Again, Welcome! God bless.
momcooks, that is tough to write about, I hope it helps a little bit to know we are thinking of you, I will say a prayer for you, I hope you will keep writing & reading, it helps. I pray for a good outcome for you, you sound like such a loveable mom!
Among those of the female gender there are the coy-flamboyant ones who come on quite sexually. Often they are incapable of getting keeping a job. they will have something of a criminal his/herstory. They will collect children in order to get monetary child support. They will have fetishes like a huge shoe collection or an ocean of clothes, all from the priciest stores, clothes which they never wear. They lie and sit at home all day talking on the phone incapable of doing almost everything one might think constitutes mutuality and participation.
2.Among men, there was one at my office who claimed the quietest cubbyhole but one near the boss. He had all the appropriate photos of his dogs, Yes big dogs Shepherds and Rottweilers, his children. He of course carried the Bible and even went to a church. He did all kinds of things to ‘look good’ but seldom ever knew anything about the job. He could not use well the computer nor write letters. He was a back stabber and stole others ideas. If it weren’t for his having a government job he probably would have failed to be able to work effectively for another company.
3.In the ‘hood, there are men who sort of lurk in the shadows. They will chime in when someone is getting pillaged by another. It becomes a cruel game for them to see that person get persecuted. They keep to themselves a lot and water the pastor’s lawn.
4.The Rev is like a sort of refuge for them and you had better not talk against the Rev. While the Rev himself is a criminal who has stolen things from me to put under his air conditoners. Rev bellers at his wife when they cut the grass and his wife does most of the work. I wonder if the Rev know what his flock (and there are two others in the hood like this one) is doing to others aka criminal enterprise. Oh the Rev appears so gentle and gets these sociopaths to do all the cooking on “Mothers Day and all these mothers get the meal prepared for them.
5. My own father too! What a mess. Solidly in allegiance to his quite abusive mother; therefore loves to pander to women but rejects men and even especially his own and only blood son. No I don’t think him being a Leo has much to do with his voracious appetite for eating people for sport! And to think he still survives being over eighty.