By | July 13, 2009 431 Comments

When the pain caused by a sociopath doesn’t stop

Almost three years ago, Lovefraud published the story of a man from the UK whom I called Tom. Tom’s wife left him for another man, took their children, had him arrested on false charges nine times and wiped him out financially. Here is the original story:

UK man says sociopath stole his life

Now, three years later, Tom still hasn’t seen his children. His ex-wife and her new husband, who also sounds like a sociopath, have removed the children from the UK. They live in France, at a small town near the Swiss border. “My heart bleeds every minute for the loss,” he writes. “It is a living bereavement and a nightmare from which I may never awake.”

I asked Tom if he was taking care of himself. Here’s his reply:

I have taken care of myself and for the most part I am okay. Some days are worse than others. I do have my very depressed and painful days ”¦ but I close my eyes, dream of days and memories of long ago, sleep and they pass.

I have to deal with my health and look after my parents. My mother phones me and cries about her grandson all the time. She has post-traumatic difficulties and says she cannot connect with her other grandchildren because of what she feels for my son. She feels a deep loss and is constantly worried about the kids. Every open discussion starts with them [opening the scar] and ends with them.

I am holding my own and my health has deteriorated but I am stable. I hold my family in the balance on many fronts. I am keeping it together but the pain is immense at times.

I am working and seem to have bounced back somewhat to where I used to be”¦ the years have been tearful, painful and costly. I don’t think that I will every really recover.

Releasing the pain

How do you cope when there is no resolution in sight?

I asked Tom about how he is taking care of himself because that may be, for the time being, all he can do. Emotional pain weakens us and makes it difficult to continue the battle. So somehow, Tom needs to alleviate the pain, even though his circumstances have not changed.

This seems counterintuitive—how can he feel better when his children are still kept away from him? The solution is to deal with the pain directly. Pain can be processed and released, even when the source of the pain has not changed.

Pain comes from wanting things to be different. The solution is to accept what is, for the time being, reality. This does not mean giving up hope. It does not mean quitting the legal battle. But it does mean letting go of the internal upset that keeps us trapped, and makes us ill.

How do we do that? We allow ourselves to feel the pain and grief at our loss. This is best done privately, or perhaps with a skilled counselor. We allow ourselves to cry, moan with the anguish, perhaps pound pillows in our anger. We continue until we feel a release, and then we stop.

Tom will probably have to do this many times—the well of his pain and grief is deep. But each time grief is released, it makes room for healing. And from a place of healing, it is possible to find the internal resources to continue the battle.

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Elizabeth Conley

I think Tom’s situation is every parent’s worst nightmare. Living a nightmare could probably kill a person.


I cannot imagine the pain Tom is suffering. My two children are the PRIMARY REASON I pull through and keep me working to find my way out. Maybe for him the hope is when they are grown he can re-establish a relationship with them.

My children and I are under duress from the threat of the N/S/P that lives 4 blocks away and is currently in jail for stalking me and threatening me and my children. He has been bailed out over 15 times in the last 18 months for various violations of the TPO and spent 3 two week visits in the psych hospital.

For various reasons I am not able to move away or I would have so I face the “fear” daily. I am regularly blindsided by events that bring back up all the trauma and horror and I have to maintain my composure as so many people I work with, and the parents at our school have no idea – I do not want a stigma attached to my kids.

What has helped me is coming to terms with reality – what is versus what I wish it was. Taking rational steps to protect ourselves has also given me peace. Alarms installed – check; Guns purchased – check; Training at the gun range – check; Neighbors and police department alerted and updated as needed – check…

He is the last in a long line of narcissists and maybe sociopaths to be allowed to affect my life. I am so done with other people’s selfish bs – I have through this process come to realize how much of my life since childhood I have spent trying to please impossible to please people – people who rarely if ever expressed any concerns about what would please me or my children.

The healing from this monster has affected how I view my parents – and allowed me to finally and fully emotionally detach from them and others. I am in the latter half of my middle years and my most fervent hope is I teach my children well so they make healthy choices for themselves and their lives.

Inventories, learning what my part is in the messes I have been a part of, grieving the losses I have had – even those from childhood -( both my parents are N’s … ) have been part of the process and I am finally beginning to wake up happy to be alive again. It is truly wonderful.

Part of the healing has been all the wisdom I have found here and various places online. Knowledge is such a powerful tool as is acceptance.

The Co-dependency labels that get tossed around I rejected out of hand and I think the blame the victim psychobabble really delayed my being able to get to the emotional resolution I needed and grow strong enough to go to No Contact as he was willing to exploit me as long as I was willing to be exploited.

For a long time – years – I did not know what was happening – but once I learned what the dynamics were and that it is what is good about me that had me enmeshed with him (and harmed by others close to me) – instead of some fatal flaw in me that caused me to – well I could never figure it out really – was there something wrong with me and I was never going to be treated with love and kindness or was I being treated properly and I my expectations were just too high for how others were supposed to behave – (even though I certainly had to meet high standards….)

When I read Dr. Carvers article on Love and Stockholm Syndrome –
that really accelerated my recovery.

Anyway – I pray Tom finds some emotional healing. I still have a hard time with short term memory and the physical toll the stress has placed on me is just now becoming apparent and so I am trying to focus on my own physical health as another source of healing my emotional and mental health.


By the way – pretrial court date is the 22nd of this month and then there is another date not yet set – if I am “lucky” he will get a year – one year for everything he has done
– and he is still trying to call me from jail so doubtful a year is enough … This is the second trial

– he plead out to the first sets of charges so a trial was avoided. He was given 3 yrs probation and anger management and in the first month was kicked out of anger management, pee tested dirty repeatedly and eventually stopped showing up for his probation officer – he is so so special he should not have to do these things see… And he will maybe serve 6 months of anything he gets if I am lucky – but any respite is better than none.


Elizabeth wrote, “I think Tom’s situation is every parent’s worst nightmare.”

I agree because it is mine, too. I’ve lived mine for 7 1/2 years and JUST yesterday one of my four adult children called me and I am overcome with JOY. One daughter, the youngest, has been calling me every week (and every day of the month of March I was hospitalized) for 14 months. I have suspicions that she is the “family” sleuth as she is a surgical nurse and she knows I have been in ill health since I left so suddenly to save my own life from their father’s attempt to kill me. (Actually I had been ill for the 10 months before I left, also, which my GP told me was due to my toxic (his word) “marriage.”

Because as Elizabeth also wrote: “Living a nightmare could probably kill a person.” I have experienced the pain of losing a child to death but as severe as that was NOTHING compares to the pain of “losing” my adult children due to a terrific and completly unexpected smear campaign. Our children were ages 46, 44, 38, and 35 when I packed a suitcase, took my laptop and took a plane to a city 1800 miles away. Each of the children were married with children of their own and all lived within 5 miles of us, now their father.

But I won’t dwell on my continually failing health. I found Lovefraud AFTER all the vindictive divorce and settlement was over, not even knowing such online support was available when I really needed it. I did get support from a local chapter of National Domestic Violence for 14 weeks. PTL

I have been on this board to try to help others, since I understand the ramifications of living with a disordered person. BUT, the major reason, perhaps selfish, is that I didn’t know anyone who had experienced parental alienation,
(Tom, that is what it is called) and although I didn’t want to hear of another’s similar nightmare and its pain, I had an inner hope that someone could “identify” with me.

My story is so long but I’ll tell Tom what my emotional experience of pain has been like. First, there was no let up or lessening of the pain for 5 long years. A couple of times I tried to have a doctor prescribe anti-depressants but neither doctor would give them to me. They said I wasn’t depressed but grieving (as was normal for my situation.)

My solution was (and is) to try very hard to put them all (and the 11 precious grandchildren — the youngest was 12 when I left — into God’s Hands and leave them there. My faith is strong but I couldn’t do it more than a day or two at a time. I always “took” them back from Him!

At one time, a few years ago, I did try to set up a mediation between the children and me, but the lawyer, very knowledgable about DV, told me he wouldn’t take the case. He said, “You have to accept that you won’t get your children back until your EX either dies or moves away.”

He, a doctor, is in good health and will never move away from his practice, so I had no choice but to ACCEPT the unacceptable. I finally accomplished this about a year ago when I learned that my weekly emails and cards to each of them was causing them grief from their father — and me as he continually found ways to try to destroy me emotionally and financially for DARING to leave him!

The No Contact has been helpful to my healing. Therefore, the JOY of one daughter contacting me a little over a year ago and then YESTERDAY, another of our 3 daughters called me! I truly had given up, remembering the lawyer’s harsh prediction.

So, Tom, I don’t have any real advice for you. BUT, I can offer you my truly heart-felt empathy and caring.

No, I guess I can echo Donna’s advice: Take care of yourself, especially your health. This experience is really a killer! I don’t know the age of your children but I feel sure that their attachment to you is permanent — even though they are in France.

Perhaps try to accept that you won’t see them again until they are of age — but don’t give up your back of your mind hope that you will see them again sooner than that.

With all the hospital bills, doctor’s appointments, and medications I am almost financially destitute. I do wish I had the money back from my lawyer, a friend, who did try to help me solve this problem earlier on. NOTHING she did, with supreme effort, was stronger than my Ex’s desire to destroy me.

I have no idea whether or not anything I have said is helpful to you — our domestic situations are obviously different. But, you are still young. You can recover. At 72, I’m not currently sure that I can.

May God’s strength and comfort surround you every day. He IS real.

Ox Drover

Dear Donna,
QUOTE: “Pain comes from wanting things to be different. The solution is to accept what is, for the time being, reality. This does not mean giving up hope. It does not mean quitting the legal battle. But it does mean letting go of the internal upset that keeps us trapped, and makes us ill.

How do we do that? We allow ourselves to feel the pain and grief at our loss. This is best done privately, or perhaps with a skilled counselor. We allow ourselves to cry, moan with the anguish, perhaps pound pillows in our anger. We continue until we feel a release, and then we stop. ”

The above statements are so right on and so IMPORTANT I thinik we should each have them tattoo’d on our palms where we can read and re-read them every hour if necessary!

For so long I was caught in a vortex of MALIGNANT HOPE that kept pulling me downward into the abyss of pain, darkness and defeat. Losing a child (children) I think is the worst nightmare that any parent can face, and many times I felt like my P-son’s face as a small child should have been on a milk carton that said “If you have seen this missing child, please call 1-800-missing” There is more than o ne way to lose a child.

Unfortunately, even after I saw my child was “gone” I held on to a milligant hope of denial that he was REALLY GONE TODAY…it was only accepting that (1) what IS is REALITY and (2) accepting that reality as something I can NOT CHANGE was I able to put my pain aside and to accept that what I wanted was not possible. In Tom’s case, his desires are not possible TODAY but maybe in the future his children will be returned to him. I don’t have that option to even continue to hold out “hope” as mine is just as “dead” to me as if he physically died.

The stresses we dfeel with the continual grief over our losses does have a big negative impact on our health, and my health deteriorated markedly. Now that I am taking care of myself, my health, both physically and mentally is better, but it takes some time for our bodies as well as our minds to recover and heal.

God bless each of you here on this journey to accept WHAT IS REALITY, rather than continuing to abuse ourselves FOREVER with THE PAIN OF LOSSES WE CAN’T CHANGE.


I always believed that losing a child through their death is something I could not imagine, as it would be so painful, and something one would NEVER recover from… even in a lifetime.
Now that my three children are grown, (my daughter is a psychopath aged 30, my middle son is damaged from being brought up by his psychopath murderous father and is aged 27 and my youngest son has just turned 20 and has a different father.) I have only just realized (since i came onto the LF site a few months ago, (after years of torturing myself in the F.O.G.), that I actually only have one child, ( my 20 year old). The other two have been dead to me since they were about 12 years old and I was in denial. I have given up hope of ever having my daughter “back”. I have accepted it with her and I am grieving it badly. I have some days where I can accept it with the 27 year old son but then the FOG still engulfs me.
But God has given me my youngest son, whose love is greater than anything I have ever experienced in my life. And for that my life is worth living. His father was a narcissist addict. Thank God we got rid of him when my youngest was very young or my youngest wouldn’t have stood a chance.
I tell this because it is my story. We are all so different, but this is my truth. At this moment my youngest son is driving around my 30 year old psychopath daughter and his cluster B girlfriend. Serving them with his generosity and kind heart. Unaware that they don’t have the capacity to care about anyone but themselves.
I keep my mouth shut now, because Oxy taught me that that is what I have to do at this point in time. And I believe her – only because she has been through it and I can tell its the truth.
Who knows what will happen with Toms psychopath wife and her psychopath boyfriend ? Anything could happen!
Why, if Tom told her he wanted nothing to do with the kids ever again because he was happier than ever before, he could be “stuck” with them all by tomorrow !!


I feel for Tom. To not see your children grow would be heart ache. I pray that his children r able 2 come 2 him and fight for a relationship.

I know first hand what stress can do to ur health. Some days I know it’s the Grace of God that keeps me going. I feel anger, loss & heart ache. I’m working everyday to try to brake away from the toxic person in my life but everytime I feel that I am close to walking away.. I get sucked back in by fear of rejection.. I am reading Betrayal Bond and I know 100% that this is the kind of relationship I have. I know I am a strong person. I take care if three small children by myself daily. With one of them having special needs and another one an infant. I just wish I could be stronger and completly let go of the junk the S brings in my life.

I hope Tom finds peace soon..



“I keep my mouth shut now, because Oxy taught me that that is what I have to do at this point in time.”

I am also doing that in my own situation , and it is the hardest thing to do on an ongoing basis.
Sitting idle while the psychopaths run the show SUCKS!
It’s like letting a monkey loose in your house and just sitting there while it trashes everything in sight.


All I can do is cry…. I read these stories and totally can relate. I’ve lost my 3 children and hurt so badly. It is so painful. There is no way to explain or compare. It is total despair. Hope is my enemy. I’ve hoped and hoped only to be let down time after time. There are times where I truly think I’m going to go crazy! Like I’m just on the verge b/c I can’t handle the pain and injustice. I’ve learned that you can’t beat them. YOU WILL NOT WIN!! THEY ALWAYS WIN!! So therefore, even though I am away and have no communication with my ex, he still controls my life!

It’s been 4 years almost 5 my kids were 11, 14 & 17. they are now 16, 19, & 22. He created little mini me’s. They are just as bad as their father if not worse. Yesterday, I decided that they are dead. I had kids at one time but they died in a plain crash w/ their father. I have mourned for almost 5 years and I KNOW THE PAIN WILL NEVER GO AWAY, but I have to move on. It is so debilitating and hopeless. It is crushing and devastating. It is truly unbearable. But there is nothing that can be done. NO HOPE. NO SOLUTION. I just have to accept it.

To me this is like being raped repeated over and over again. Day after day. knowing that its gonna happen again. It’s gonna continue forever and nothing can be done to stop it. You just have to lay down and take it. over and over again. But what is even more horrifying is that people all around know that this is happening and continue to allow it. It’s like they are sitting an watching the rape going one. Every day they see it and do nothing about it. Everyday they know that it is happening and in their minds it’s ok. That is the way it should be. There’s nothing wrong with that. HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN???? Somebody please tell me!!! HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN?


Dear Ninalinda, i feel ur pain and ur post made me cry, i feel like holding ur hand now and lay ur head on my lap 🙂
Do not give up, there is always some hope for (maybe) lost children. Maybe not all of them are the same, and let us keep a faith and hope that at least one of them will wake up one day, but NOT NOW at the moment. He has done his job, and all u can do now is to WAIT untill they grow up and have own children.
I personally experienced similar situation, together with my recent husband. He devorced from his N/P wife, boys were 11 and 15. He could not do anything to win dirty battles with her, but he kept trying, year after year, day after day, crying, hoping, trying…
It took us 20 years…baby steps, one step forward, 10 steps backward, but we kept trying.
In the mean time we got a daughter, and i taught her to love her brothers UNTIL they prove that love is not deserved.
Today, after 20 years, boys are having own families, they ran away from evil mother, and today they are having own children, they love each other and every day situation becomes better and we are happy that we did not give up.
I wish ur story ends the same way. Just wanted to tell u that IT IS POSIBLE, not all hope has gone!




Breckgirl, that link is really helpful reading.:)x I found this subsequent one really usful too:)x


I am also holding your hand and walkingwith you. I understand the horrible pain you’re feeling. I think it’s the powerlessness that makes things so hard.

My mother is a S. I’m her life-long target. She’s so good that she’s been able to get my sister (who is one of my closest friends) to believe that I’m abusing my mom. At least she knows Mom is crazy, but she thinks I am to blame for the horrible things she does because I “egg her on.”

I’m in my own crisis and am confronted with ditching Mom entirely (the healthiest thing) or staying involved so my 2 siblings aren’t stuck w an aging, going blind nut job. I’d feel so guilty leaving them to shoulder everything. And I don’t think leaving would reallyhelp me anybecause, like the evil husband who’s stolen the kids, I’d still be in her radar via my siblings – sympathetic sister especially.

Just try to hang in there and take it one day at a time. Your kids will eventually come back. I believe this because there’s nothing like having your own children to help you see the screwed up logic of a SP parent.

My brother told me that Mom once tried to strangle him, but he was being a jerk so he deserved it. I asked him why he didn’t stranglehis own teenagers and the lights came on.

So there is hope.



super chic

ninalinda… Your post resonates with me, my daughter lives 3000 miles away, and although she moved willingly (to get married) and we still talk, I miss her so much… I am in intense pain… but I still get to see her maybe once a year or every other year, and I talk to her on the phone a lot, so I can’t imagine the pain you and others feel at this loss, or what others go through when their child passes away. Your post saying you have to go through the pain everyday, over and over, it is so sad. I am holding you in my heart, you are in my prayers, I wish I could offer some kind of relief.



Your pain is heartwrenching, and we feel for you. Many of us have been exactly where you are. It’s perfectly OK to express your pain, let the tears flow, and scream it out to the heavens. All I ever wanted in life was a “normal” happy family, and the P experience took it all away. For quite some time, I lost everything that meant anything to me. All I had was a job and a roof over my head. I learned to be grateful for that. Some P victims aren’t even left with that much.

And believe me, I did quite a bit of crying, screaming, fist-shaking toward the sky, and wondering why. When the P takes your children, it is like rape–many here have likened it to soul rape. And the system, the authorities, often make it worse by blaming the victim and coddling the perpetrator. It is cruel. It is unfair. It is wrong.

No matter how bad it gets, hold onto the sure knowledge that you can survive it. Although right now it might not seem possible, know that even if you are totally alone in your struggle, this horrible experience can be turned into a gift. Your emotions and your heart are your strengths. You have a soul. You have the capacity to love.

Use this time without your children in your life to work on yourself. Read, think, study. Write. Get a counselor. Get stronger. Accept the reality in which you are living, and use whatever mental tricks you must (the plane crash scenario, etc.) to survive in the short term.

If you find that you are able to keep a small, secret nugget of hope in your heart, I would urge you to do so. I totally understand what you mean when you say “hope is my enemy.” I’ve been there. I could see nothing good on the horizon, no reason at all to keep going, but I kept going nonetheless, and today I can’t tell you how glad I am that I kept putting one foot in front of the other.

(If you are a religious or spiritual person, this can be your saving strength. A prayer in your heart–that no one on earth but you knows about–can sustain you through anything. I know this for a fact.)

Heal yourself. Tell yourself “I am going to make myself strong and capable, so that I will be able to help my children when the time comes.”

It may be that you will be able to reunite with your children someday, even if it doesn’t seem so now. As ThornBud says, baby steps. You have friends and helpers here who understand.


Thank you. I’ve been to couselors in the beginning but haven’t gone in a while. I have an appt tomorrow for one. I need help.


What do you do when the pain you feel just doesn’t stop? I fell in love with the coldest, meanest man that ever lived. He raped me, he lied to me, he lied to his friends about me, and then disposed of me like I was a piece of trash.

He wouldn’t, no matter how hard I tried, recognize me as a human being with feelings and needs. He absolutely wouldn’t acknowledge me as a person and therefore neither would his friends. He hurt me so bad. I can’t get over it. I never know anybody so cold.

Ox Drover

Dear ninalinda,

I can so relate to your pain, and also to your solution. My P-son (my youngest of two) was lost to me by the time he started his acting out about age 15—he has been in prison most of the time since then, his last crime was murder.

Many years I held out hope (almost 20 years) that he would get out of prison and reform. But it was TOXIC HOPE, MALIGNANT HOPE that was like a cancer inside me.

I finally came to the conclusion that the child I loved was DEAD and the MAN who had his “organs” was NOT HIM. That man was a stranger, not my son. I even held a private memorial service for my dead son, and “buried” him. I got rid of all the photographs of him past the age of about 10 or 11, and as far as I am concerned that is when he “died” to me.

The pain was tremendous, and I grieved just as if I had physically buried my 11 year old son, but now, two years out, I am free of the pain of the loss.

Topday is the 5th anniversary of when my husband burned to death in a small plane crash here at our airport/farm, and I spent 4 of those years in the throes of PTSD because I was here at the time, and saw and witnessed the entire thing, but I am NOT having a melt down today, I am NOT still grieving, but am ACCEPTING of the loss of my beloved husband, and also the loss of my beloved CHILD. they are gone, but i can remember the good times with them, smile about the funny things we did together and have happy memories and not bad memories.

It has been a long difficult and painful journey to get to this place but I have done my best–sometimes that was one step forweard and two steps back, but over all it has been in a forward progression out of teh abyss of pain and fire.

No matter how bad it gets, or how hopeless we feel it is, we need to continue on the journey, THERE IS LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL.

My faith in my view of God has actually been strengthened and it has helped me to realize that “God’s time” and “our time” are not the same, and that positive things can come out of anything, and there are lessons to be learned in even these painful experiences.

Job’s experience and your’s seem parallel in many ways. There are not words to convey to you any comfort, but we know One who has ALL Comfort -The God Of All Comfort. In the midst of your life of sorrow and pain, joy and light, you are able to comfort others. I can’t wait to meet you in heaven. When we know we are not alone in a pain that many others may not understand nor have felt to the degree that we have been allowed to, there is a sense of knowing God hasn’t somehow singled us out to suffer. I do believe the enemy of my soul has been after me since I was choked by my dad at 2 months old when he yanked me out of my bassinet and shook me for crying. My life has been seared by trauma after trauma, for as long as I can remember. I just read this morning that Bullies seek the weak ones to intimidate, and use power and control.
My faith has also been strengthened, and I know what surrender means in a way I never would have if these things had not happened. There is an inner something I cannot identify regarding life and the people in it that is as gift – a 6th sense. I don’t talk about it often, as it is holy and sacred. It is as nearness to my Creator.
OXDROVER, be encouraged that as you give to others from the bounty of your experiences, so too, will you be given the gifts that are eternal. Hugs, Housie

Drop the “a” in “It is a nearness to my Creator.” I’m still working on perfectionism, but not today!!!


Hello, Everyone!

Well the pain can end!! On Sunday, my psychopathic ex-boyfriend called me. Strangely, this was the anniversary date of meeting a psychopath who is now spending the rest of his life in prison. (Life really means life in this case.)

So, the the P left a message. He referred to me with an affectionate name reserved for only my dearest girlfriends. Then he went on to say he hadn’t seen me in such a long time…he was concerned about me. He let me know the phone call didn’t mean he was flirting with me. He was just so very worried. He wanted me to call him to let him know I was okay.

Well, several months ago when he saw me in a pink cast and on crutches, he wasn’t too concerned. A couple of days later when it snowed and there was ice on the ground he didn’t care to call to see if I needed anything. I spent 2 months on crutches and in a wheelchair. The only places I went were work and an exercise facility to continue with my upper body workout. Being diabetic I had to continue with my exercise to manage my disease and also help with the stress!!

I was devastated at this injury. Being diabetic, I was concerned I’d need an operation–which had a 6 month recovery period. I washed clothes by crawling on my hands and knees and throwing my clothes until they ended up near the washing machine. I couldn’t even give my dog water. I couldn’t go to the grocery store because I couldn’t carry anything. I did have a son a friends who helped get me through this period. (Now I am walking again and grateful for being able to move in an upright position!!!)

So, what about the phone call!? Well, when I saw the number I had to read it twice. I expected him to call me back. But was still shocked when I saw his number.

I haven’t returned his call. I don’t plan on it. I have too much respect for myself to ever be involved with him again. When I see him at our exercise facility I plan on saying, “Oh, yes. You did call, didn’t you? Well…I’ve just been so busy….” Then I’ll walk away.

He has no power over me. I’ve learned valuable lessons from my experience with him.

Now…I’m living my own life. And quite happy with me!!!


Ox Drover

Dear Housie,

Your post made me cry, not bad tears, though, but “sweet” ones. Thank you so much, I too look foreard to meeting many people in the afterlife, as well as being P-FREE there as well.

When I read Dr. Viktor Frankl’s book, “Man’s Search for Meaning” after his total Job-like losses of EVERYTHING except his very soul, I realized that my own losses paled in comparison too the losses experienced by others. My losses were painful, but I still retain so many blessings that I am still “among the blessed” of this world.

Each day, I try to look around me, and to thank God that He has provided so much bounty for me, and ultimately safety. I believe and am comforted by the phrase in the Bible that “all things work together for good to those that Love the Lord!”

Sometimes it was difficult for me to see the truth in that, because as I looked at the current situation, it only appeared to be a series of losses. However, many many times, if that “loss” had not occured, I can NOW see that I would still be in the clutches of the psychopaths. So, though, at the TIME it occured, that loss of my relationship with the P-son, or my psychopathic-by-proxy egg donor, I was really being freed from the EVIL emotional bonds to these EVIL people.

I read the Bible stories now with a new insight that I did not have before, and I can see that there was a lesson to be learned for many of the old prophets and people. Lot, for example, was told to leave the city in which he lived and to go out into the wilderness with essentially nothing but what he had on his back, so for him that must have felt like a “loss” to have to leave a comfortable city and go into the winderness where he had nothing but a cave to dwell in, but by going into the wilderness, he escaped the destruction of the city. His loss of his home actually preserved his life.

My own loss of my home preserved my own life when I fled my house for safety. I also realized that my “house” is just that, a THING for my comfort, but I am still ME without it, and I was kept safe by giving up what was so prescious to me. If I had stayed here as I was determined to do to “defend” it I am sure I would have been killed. So sometimes when dealing with psychopaths, it is better wisdom to get the heck out of Dodge and not depend on ourselves, but to follow the wisdom within us, the voice of God. too many times I have drowned out that small voice of wisdom and made the decision to depend on my ownself when I would have been much better off to listen to that still small voice in my soul.

I think if we are DETERMINEd to go our own way, God won’t shout over our own voices and will allow us to “make our own beds.” I have decided that “lying in” the beds I made of my own will was not very comfortable. So now I am trying to listen to the wisdom and good sense, common sense actually, that tells me I am doing something that is not for my or others best interest.

Thank you again, Housie, your words mean a great deal more to me than you can even begin to know. (((hugs)))) and God bless us all here at LF.



My father took us girls away from my mother when we were just little kids and never let us see her again too. After many years, she gave up. DON’T let that happen to you. Don’t let him define who you are. You are a kind and gentle person and your warm heart is what attracted him to you in the first place. Don’t let him destroy that. We all love you here and other people see your kindness.

Donna Anderson: Thank you for your kind words. You’ve helped me today and I’m ok now. God Speed.


I have been a subscriber of Lovefraud for a couple of years now but have never posted anything until now.
The subject of sociopaths turning the children against you opened a floodgate in me.
During my divorce from my toxic, sociopathic ex, he did a terrific smear campaign on our two boys, ages 18 and 20. My two children from a previous marriage weren’t able to be manipulated. He forced our sons lie to a Judge when I pressed domestic abuse charges on him and even though there was not one shred of evidence against me and tons against him (7 witnesses, only 2 were allowed to speak), the Judge threw me out of my own home for a year without any of my belongings. Didn’t charge me with anything, just said I couldn’t go home. I appealed it and WON, but by then the damage had been done. I developed PTSD, lost 30 lbs, vomited a lot and had to deal with the humilation of people assuming I had done something wrong because the Judge made ME leave. Actually, he didn’t even listen to the case, he just made a quick decision on a day that he was in a bad mood and that’s why I won the appeal. He had no legal right to make me leave. Because he had a bad day, I now had a bad life. The appeal cost me $5,000 (the state doesn’t reimburse you even when you win). I had just given my lawyer every cent I could beg, borrow or steal to start the divorce. I was homeless in the middle of the winter in Iowa and only had a part-time job.
He wouldn’t allow the boys to talk to me. (he had ways to make their lives miserable). My mother died during this and my lawyer asked for my black dress to wear to her funeral. He wouldn’t even let me have that. He had my 2 dogs, cat and parrot also. He let the house go into foreclosure and when I said I would make the payments if he left, he did but I found the house almost uninhabitable and my animals were starving. He was charged with animal neglect and given a $50 fine. I had him posted on if anyone wants to see pictures. ( need to punish is strong I think)
He had found another unsuspecting victim (girlfriend with $) so HE had a place to go and tried to lose our home on purpose so I would truly have nothing.
After no contact with my sons for almost 3 years, they started calling me. Apparently after getting his hooks deep enough into the new girlfriend, he didn’t need them any longer and basically discarded them like used Kleenex. Now we are all trying to heal and deal with the pain. He, on the other hand, is living the good life pretending butter wouldn’t melt in his mouth. The boys are angry at his hipocrisy and need counseling, but neither has insurance. I feel like my life is over sometimes, but I refuse to let him win. All I can do is hope he is punished by God, karma or whatever.



They have no goodlife! Only a phesaud(sp) on the outside! A fake appearence of a life. Inside they are hollow, seithing in worthlessness! Without the ability to Love ,feel It ,they are empty! You feel so hurt because you take it personal! He will do this to each and every one he comes close to! Women men ,Children , it doesn’t matter who !!!!! It is what they do!

The Shark is not evil, it was born to eat and make baby sharks.
The Psycopath Is Evil because They get pleasure from our pain.

Trust that this is for a purpose! That What you and your sons gain will be more than what you lost! God speed


“Yesterday, I decided that they are dead. I had kids at one time but they died in a plain crash w/ their father”.
I never believe that their father is dead because I need to stay alert to the dangerous murderous person he is. And I am finally doing what I can in relation to that, for me ( and inadvertently others),to stay safe.
I tried doing what you have done with your kids re: the plane crash, but it makes it worse for me. Because my heart knows they are alive. However it is early days and i know i have a lot of anger to release towards myself and my daughter for not realising sooner. You know, for being such a mug. And with my son, I still have a lot of guilt (a totally wasted emotion because I am not guilty… but I still feel it). And it is a roller coaster ride. When I look at his photo, no matter what age all I see is my little boy.
However, taking down the photos of my daughter definitely helped (all of them). And changing my will definitely helped.
So I have a long way to go. What i am saying is: When they have physically died it is easier to grieve. You never recover, but you can fully grieve. When they are alive, there is an area of confusion for a long time. It is harder to deal with in my opinion. Just as devastating, but harder to grieve because of the conflicting paradox.


When I read your post is reminded me of myself so much. The S in my life I am married 2. We have been 2gether 16 years and have 3 children. We had a nice home in a nice area and I 2 had to leave because of violence. He still blamed me for leaving.. My children went from living in a big home 2 a small apartment.. I felt guilty like I was taking away a better life for them but my children did not care. I always wanted them 2 learn that none of those things matter.. It is the love inside the home that is valuable.. I know that by the grace of God I am still here 2day. The S was not able 2 end my life.
I do believe that God does allow us to sleep in the beds we make. I feel like I have lost so much in my life..that I have “lost out” on having a true love in my life.. 16 years loving an S is just so hard. I watched him go from being a teen S to a full blown adult S. I at times feel like a failure. I kept thinking that I could make him realize how he hurt us, but it always comes back 2 me being the one at fault.. For a long time I believed that. God has helped me see that I am worthy of so much more. But I have 2 want that happeness and if it means giving upva certain life style I cld have stating with the S then I can give those things up.. The S knows this and he uses it against me.. He tells me things like “do u realize I pay for EVERYTHING!” The last time he said that I said ” sadly that is all u know how 2 do or want 2 give of yourself”. I pray daily for God 2 help me be strong and realize as hard as it is that the entire 16 year relationship has been just a fantasy for me.. Just me sugar coating all the red flags that God placed in my path away from him. Hard to except but even with that God gave me grace by blessing me with 3 beautiful children. That has been the best REAL part of my life. There love is real and true. I love the movie Hope S also cheated on me like The woman in the movie.. He comes 2 her and says he wants 2 be with this other women and she says ” you 2 deserve eachother. You were lucky 2 have me. But you know what I think I already got the best part of you and she is standing out there waiting on me (refering 2 her daughter) and what’s left over just doesn’t look so good to me anymore.” How true that is.. Even if I lost everything tmrww. I wld still have my children & their love. He will never have that love because he can’t deal with it or want it.. It’s 2 much responsibility 2 let someone in 2 ur heart complty.. I pray that guides me in how 2 raise them alone and give them a stable life.. 🙂

Ox Drover

Dear Kate,

Putting the important things first and the material things last is sometimes hard to do….as we al lneed a minimal amount at least of material things…but I clung to the material “security” of my home, not wanting to let my P-son and his henchmen drive me out….I can’t imagine how you dealt with that EVIL judge’s decision all the while so many other things were going on.

That your home was trashed deliberately and let go into foreclosure is not unexpected when dealing with a psychopath! I hope there is a “warm spot in hades” for these judges that do not get it about what psychopaths are and turn over children to them. Dr. Amy Castillo (there is a thread here on LF about her) warned her judge that her husband was going to kill her children if he was given unspervised visits and on the first visit with them, HE KILLED THEM. I think that judge should be HUNG, DRAWN and QUARTERED! (can you tell that judges doing such things makes me ANGRY!?)

I am so sorry that you went through such trauma and then more trauma on top of it. God bless and keep you! Hang around LF and heal with the rest of us, this is a wonderful community! (((hugs))))


Thank you all for your kind thoughts and it does help to feel validated.



just wanted to drop you a line. I went into my marriage to a P/S as a Christian, but I ignored the red flags. I am learning how to forgive myself for not hearing that voice.

I am lucky that I don’t believe my P/S gets joy out of what he does, but everything he does is for him, he is a shell, I watch how he changed the day he left me and now fits OW’s taste…he was the same with me, went to church and seemed to enjoy it, talked about God, even roped in christians at work. now he’s totally different.
yes it is comforting to know he doesn’t love this new girl either and he’ll do the same to her.
But now my worry is my son. P/S will fight tooth and nail as long as I want our son. I know you can bargain with a P/S, but I haven’t got him totally figured out yet. I didn’t even know he was a P/S until late May 09.
But I have figured out his bark is much worse than his bite..he has always barked and it has worked, but he’s never had to bite.
Yesterday I told him “no” for the first time and nothing happened.
But I so fear S/P will turn my year old son against me.

All I ask right now is for you faithful ones her on LF is prayer for the Lord to watch over court on thursday.
And that I grow in faith and let the Lord banish my fears.


Ox Drover

Dear Banana,

“The prayer of the righteous availeth much” and I know that prayer helped me to accept what IS for today—and to gain in patience and to accept the promise in the Bible that “all tings work together for good to those that love the Lord.” We don’t always see how this is so, but keep your faith, and pray and take care of yourself and your son. Hopefully, your X will get bored with your child before the boy gets big enough to remember him.

Liane Leedom M. D. has a blog and site for “co parenting” with the toxic ones, you might join her there and get information that will help and comfort you.

Play your cards close to your chest and don’t ‘react” to whatever your X pulls. Don’t antagonize him, but at the same time, don’t give in either is my advice. At some point if he doesn’t pay child support it might be possible to get him to sign over your child in exchange for you not pressing for child support.

Toxic ones (ps or not) can pretend to be religious and holy and good, but they are wearing masks—from the letter yours wrote, he sounds like that type of person. Always trying to find someone else to blame for his own failures and bad behavior.

Keep your faith and be glad that you are away from him, it can only be BETTER away from a man like him. (((hugs))) and God bless.

super chic

Hi Kattt, well, I guess life isn’t over til it’s over, and you’re still here and you’ve got your boys! I am so glad you wrote that you refuse to let him win, so don’t let him win what’s inside of YOU!!!! I don’t know too much of your personal story but it sounds like you have already been through a lot and you are still standing. I’m glad you are hanging in there with the rest of us. I hope you keep writing. I will be thinking of you.


In Melbourne in Victoria, they have a judge whose nickname is “santa clause.” He is a psychopath who can be bought with money or “favours” to give you whatever sentence you want. I can’t be specific here and tell you what some of them were, or it will identify me. Such is the nature of staying safe.


Some days I wonder if it will EVER go away.

I still live with the financial consequences as a reminder. I have been so weakened by the whole sorry saga I have little enthusiam for anything. I try to engage in activities – social etc. but some days, it just doesn’t happen. I never had health problems before the S and they started about a year down the line with him.

I didn’t know it was possible to HATE a person this much.


Dear Morgan,

You must be so very proud of yourself! Way to go for not calling him back and being committed to NO CONTACT. In fact, if you see him at the gym you do have the option of totally ignoring him or just brushing him off not even mentioning the call.. “oh, hey, gotta run… etc..

I cant imagine what you endured physically. You are one strong woman ! Take care of yourself and your health. The less stress the better!!! You DO NOT NEED HIM causing continued chaos and pain in your life… you are perfectly fine without him and can handle anything that comes your way!

Towanda!!! STAY STRONG! YOU DID IT!!!!

Ox Drover

Dear Escapee,

You are right, I did not believe it was possible to HATE SOMEONE so much, and when I realized that I hated my egg donor with a white-hot rage it hit me in the face like a bucket of coals—I am past that now, and I finally realized that hating them takes ENERGY as well, and I don’t want to give them that much of my energy and thinking. THEY DON’T EVEN DESERVE MY HATE! I am, as one poster here recently said, entering the NIRVANA OF INDIFFERENCE. (CRS can’t remember who said it) I think that 3-word phrase is the way to go, it takes time and it takes work, but it is sure worth it. When we can actually be indifferent to the point we wouldn’t cross the street to pith on them if they were on fire. That we just don’t CARE.

We accept them for the EVIL BEING that they are, acknowledge what they did to us IN THE PAST, and don’t let that PAST BE OUR PRESENT. We can’t change the past, our decisions or their actions in the past, but we can sure take CONTROL OF TODAY and our decisions and our lives TODAY.

Just liike if I had been bitten by a cobra in the past, and maybe even lost a foot because of that toxic bite, I still have a missing foot, but I don’t have to spend every minute of every day HATING COBRAS, or thinking about them when I pick up my crutches or put on my special appliance so I can walk.

I had plenty of REASON to hate my egg donor, and I really DID HATE HER, she even looked at me and said “You really hate me don’tyou?” I realized at that moment, yes, I hated her enough to kill her without any regret at that moment. But—I am not a psychopath, and I will not let her “provoke” me inito doing something I will regret later, no matter how “justified” I feel I would be by doing it. And, hey, I still feel there are some folks so “evil” that they “juist deserve to be put out of the human race”—but that is for God to handle not me. My Bible tells me that “Vengence is mine, sayeth the Lord” and I figure I would rather have them face the personality that can meet them out what they TRULY deserve.

I will leave that vengence to God, and get the hate out of my heart, not for their benefit, but for MY BENEFIT.

Just stay on the road t6o healing, Escapee, it will get smoother and will have less pot holes and rocks the further along you go!!! (((HUGS)))) and my prayers for your healing and strength! Oxy


Wow~ I feel for each and everyone of u. I have my daughter who is a successful, contributing member of society that lives only 20 minutes away! We have a healthy relationship. She is a nurse. She has however, endured sadness seeing how I have allowed people to treat me. I cannot imagine (truly) the pain you all must feel for the losses of your children.

To Kate09, What is a home if you are not happy in it? I have done that, only to move on to another S. So, you are evolving in that you are in a happy home.

My father is a drug addict P. Went to a state hosp. when I was 10. Turned some of my sibs against my mother. (Victim). I never turned cuz he scared the hell out of me with a gun once. They divorced and remarried. My sister is a P. She is a big bully. Way bigger than I am. She beat me from head to toe on Apr. 18. this year after her ex-husbands funeral, where they read 2 poems I wrote. I do not ever want to see her again, unfortunately my parents are flying here tonight to stay at her house. I am uncertain what to do. I know I don’t want to see her ever again. My Aunt just died and memorial is Friday. I feel like I need to be there to support my mother. She is truly a victim of a P all her life. I feel like I need to have a “guard”, with me but I am alone. I believe she would have beat me to death if my P partner would have not been there. In this instance he saved me from her. He was actually traumatized by what happened and he is from South Boston and has seen much ugliness. She gave no warning, we were not arguing, she just came over to where I was sitting and yanked my hair out, was just an animal. Slammed my legs in the door when I tried to leave. Huge bruises, all down to my feet. Couldn’t walk for weeks. Bumps on my head, etc. Punched her best friend in the face. Next day, I talked to her friend. She asked me “what the hell set her off?” There were only the 4 of us there and noone knows what did it. Coulda been that she was going to appear in court the following Thurs. for domestic violence charges against her boyfriend. She is nuts. I am 51 years old. I do not engage in physical violence. She never even called to apologize. I seriously feel as though I need to get “bear spray” or something in case she tries to do it again. ??????? She is dead to me in my heart but I feel like I still have to see her. How can she be dead if she is in front of me?

I have read for days on these blogs, what I have learned that has helped me is: Quiet the redundant bad thoughts and step into the pain. FEEL the pain. It helps to feel.

Last night I read on another blog and actually laughed!! The frying pan stuff. It felt soooo good to laugh. I so need that in my life again.

You people are so helpful. I feel as though I can see. Truthfully. I can see through the confusion. My head is not so clouded. Being calm, walking THROUGH the pain. It is a release. I pray to God that we ALL find open doors that lead us to evolution within ourselves and freedom. Peace be with all.


2much2take.(big hug) That sounds horrific. My mother and sister are both violent bullies, but the physical attacks on me stopped when I left home at 16… they just continued knocking the crap out of each other for a bit.(of course not of that really happend if you asked them!)

When you say ‘she just came over to where I was sitting and yanked my hair out, was just an animal.’ it sends shivers down my spine, both m+S display kind of rabid beast behaviour when they come up against anything. Even when we’ve been ‘getting on’ it has always been like walking on egg shells, you can FEEL the aggression/jealousy/anger prickling below the surface.

Then my sister left the country and things settled down ( well no stir ups and cresendos, just low-fi manipulation and daily crushing and undermining from my mother) when my sister snorted her business up her nose and returned it was right back to 24/ 7 hysterics, threats of suicide bitching triangles…drama, drama, drama. I have decided, on the back of what happend to me with the P/S, and the strength(Ha! I feel as weak as a kitten today) I have subsequently gained here to step out of it again, and for good.

I can also relate to your saying you can know see through all the confusion, I feel I can see clearer now. But it is hard, I feel like I have been dismantled and am in the process of rebuilding myself from scratch. I think someone made a butterfly transforming analogy and i keep that in mind.

In my very heart and soul I KNOW that this is one of the most important processes in my life i will go through and its long over due.

But phew, today I am exhausted.

I come here every day and I find the discussions, information and thank heavens sometimes, giggles, soul food:)xxx

I like your idea about bear spray! Hopefully I wont need it!x

Ox Drover

Dear 2much,

I am not sure what the legalities of carrying pepper spray are in your state, but you actually might consider carrying it (in your hand) IF IT IS LEGAL. I would not go if I could not be protected. Your sister is an obvious overly dangerous person.

Next time she might actually do you some serious and irreversable injury, like a broken neck or a head injury.

I know that you may feel you need to support your mother, but at the same time, the things I have learned frm my own violent family is that I HAVE TO TAKE CAARE OF MY OWN SAFETY FIRST. If I am not safe, then I cannot help others.

This was a hard thing to do, I left my home and fled, knowing that my own mother was a target for the ps as well as me, however, she was also their DUPE, and still is, refuses to believe the truth, even though it has been well proven and documented that my P son had tried to have me killed (first) and I have no doubt she would have been next for him to inherit our property. She still sends him money. I have gone NO CONTACT with her as long as she insists on disbelieving the evidence and in enabling him.

I feel for you so much empathy, I know it is like being between a “rock and a hard place” or the “devil and the deep blue sea” My only advice is PROTECT YOURSELF FIRST. (((HUGS)))) and my prayers.


Hello All ~ I haven’t written in a while, but I have been keeping up on the articles. Two months after my home had been burglarized by the S, the police decided to get a search warrant…the S had some firearms of mine that he wouldn’t give back, so the police took in the SWAT team, raided his home (he lived with his mommy) and found some of my stuff, the LCD TV that he was using, my laptop he was using, my digital camera he was using, the police didn’t find the firearms. The police arrested him only he got out 2 days later…the DA rejected the case. I was horrified! So, the police put extra patrol around my house…they were always around me…I work for a school, too. In the meantime, I had started dating someone, casually, because I was VERY cautious. He SEEMED nice at first…almost TOO nice…I KNEW something was up, but I just figured maybe I was just paranoid? WRONG! 4 weeks into dating, HE began to display RAGE one day…Boy Howdy, did I run like HELL! Then, he wouldn’t leave me alone, so now I had TWO of them to worry about! I FINALLY shook off the second one and THEN found out later that he’s a REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER – very violent offenses, too!!! Ok, REALLY! Thank GOD I got away! Well, the first S has been arrested AGAIN, you guessed it! Felon with a loaded, stolen firearms…MINE! He’s been in jail for over a month…his sentencing date is Aug. 4th. And, yeah, you guessed correctly again! He’s been calling me from jail, violating the restraining order. I now keep my land line unplugged and tell everyone else to call me on my cell. I don’t want to change my number yet, in case any authorities need to get in touch with me…plus, I’m filing reports every time he violates the restraining order. And, yes, he’s even WRITTEN me a letter from jail! I don’t respond…I’ve learned from all of you NO CONTACT!

I think the reason we feel this pain so deeply is because we also feel THEIR pain as well or the pain they SHOULD be feeling, like normal people, since they can’t feel it themselves, so our pain is doubled…we’re in pain over what they did to us, and in pain because THEY aren’t feeling it, too! Does that make sense? The only resolution I have is how very sad for them to not feel ANYTHING…not even happiness…to just be cold and empty for the rest of their lives. Imagine going through life like that!

Lessons learned…background checks a MUST, but for now, I’m just being by myself, thank you very much!


I hope you read this in time.
Definitely DON”T go to the memorial for your Aunt, to support your mother. You will be attacked again for sure. Tell your mother you are too sick to go…which is the truth, because she is enough to make anyone sick. If your mother has been with ps all her life. She will accept it. Everything you say to your sisters “friend” will get back to her. You can count on it. Say nothing about her your sister to her. Ever.
Start NC with this dangerous psychopath who has it in for you. She was probably jealous of the 2 poems, or that you stole her thunder somehow, whatever it was, all you need to know is that she has it in for you and to stay alive you must stay away…no matter what.


Found this quote…..
wanted to share it…..

Forgiveness does not always lead to a healed relationship. Some people are not capable of love, and it might be wise to let them go along with your anger. Wish them well, and let them go their way.


How did I make the same mistake twice? How did I marry another one when no one would want to endure the pain of a S/N/P again? I thought the pain was over. I thought I had the family and father for my kids that I always wanted. He was the love of my life. He as my soulmate. I was a fool and I have been TWICE BAKED. That’s right. Twice. And you know what goes into twice baked potatoes? Potatoes that are….mashed up, stirred up….heavy…altered from their original state. They’ve been cooked, chopped up, mashed, drowned, stirred, prodded, and eventually….they are eaten. I have been eaten alive, really.

I feel so stupid. I am hurt. I am grieving. I am 51 yrs old. I still have an elementary aged kid. I wanted this man’s baby so badly…I loved him so much and thought God and my dead father had dropped him from the clouds. Then the lies started….lie upon lie upon lie. First about bills. Then about other things. The man could not tell the truth. I kept saying, “What’s the point in lying? I’m not your mother. I’m not going to send you to your room. Just tell the truth so we can be on the same page and deal with this.” Yeah, right.

I feel guilty about the harm I have caused my amazing family…my loved ones that have been there for me not once…but twice….remember, I was twice baked…and so was my elderly mother, my sister and brother and their families. It’s like I went out and bought a blow torch and ignited everything all of us had worked so hard for, and the pain and anguish that I feel are enormous. Sometimes I just want to give up. I wish I could time travel and undo all the harm that has been done. Wishing does not make it so.

To make matters worse, the pain doesn’t stop b/c he tells me that he will make things right…that taking care of me and our son is his only goal in life….he has NOT worked in almost 2 yrs now….that he will repay everyone….that all the rumors that he had drug problems, embezzled money from his last employer…that he had an affair with a girl in his office…that he loved me and meant no harm…..they were all lies. Listen to me, girls….guys…whoever is reading this….whoever is reading this and your head is swimming with confusion, dispair, disappointment…if it looks like a duck…acts like a duck…quacks like a duck….you know the rest of the story. Do yourself a favor and run away NOW. If it is someone you were madly in love with, and you have been devastated (it’s been over two years for me and I am still reeling) and shocked by the lie that they are….seem to be….are…..seem to be….are seem to be…..(do you get my drift)…..this broken record will not change. It will continue to play the same thing over and over and over again. Get away now. I hardly have the strength to put one leg in front of the other…and I was a very, very, very strong woman before reality set in….and I have lost everything except my kids….and I just want to live a long life and have some good years with them and their kids…and be a grandmother….and be me again…and well….it’s almost two am…and I made it through another day….so I may make it afterall.

I’m tired. I’m going to bed….and I hope BOTH of my S go to @##$% and are triple baked. Good night. Know you are loved…forgiven…and it is imperative to keep moving forward…even if you are only taking baby steps. I love you all.

I recently had a wonderful friend come into life. She is a writer, like myself. She has had the same sick relationships that I have had. She has done many things that have healed the healing process. I still grieve. She reminds me that grieving is vital. Say goodbye to all that junk…because you are about to give birth to a new you. It’s true. If I set boundaries, I will not have to listen to his fairytales…and I will stay on this road to recovery…and through this pain, I will eventually give birth to a new me. This is a great site. Thank you for helpiing us.



So sorry to hear your regrets and the trail of misery these relationships have left in their wake. As you know, you are not alone – many of us (myself included) are trying to put ourselves back together again in the aftermath of these toxic sub-humans.

I am trying to move on from my horrible experience of one of these ‘aliens’ that blight our world. The damage has been horrendous – I too look back and see a strong lady who was in control of her life and now wonder where she went.

You didn’t buy the ‘blow-torch’ – you trusted and loved and it was YOU and your family that got ‘torched’ by this evil man. I am sick to death of beating myself up about being ‘naive’ and loyal to the point of stupidity. I gave over everything to the toxic S that I was involved with – he DEMANDED it – and made sure he bled me dry of everything – everyone around me was affected. But, over time, (and it has taken TIME), I am coming to realise he couldn’t take away the ‘essence’ of me – despite his best efforts. He wanted to destroy everything good and loving in my life – not enhance and share in it. Well he hasn’t. They love winning and I won’t let him win this one – he doesn’t have the ‘tools’ to win this one because I am coming from a place of love in kindness in the way I relate to those around me – the people who make up my life – my two wonderful children, good family and friends – he wouldn’t know where to begin. I hold on to this thought to keep me strong – his way of living is all about greed, gain, self-gratification, putting himself first – even or especially when it means belittling and conning others – this is what makes him feel empowered – what a very sad and toxic way to live.

We’re better than that. We have a knowledge that they will never have – they will live with the consequences of their behaviour – I have to believe in ‘what goes around comes around’ – that keeps me strong too. The only thing I pray for is INDIFFERENCE – that’s when I’ll know I’m healed.

All love to you and keep posting for strength.



Have just been catching up with LF this morning (I’m on UK time). Each of your posts sounds stronger. The first post I ever read of yours sounded so pained and desparate (if you don’t mind my saying – we’ve all been there, so I know you won’t). I am so pleased to hear the hope that is conveyed in your writing and messages of support to others. You also sound as if you are ‘supporting’ yourself now – the most important part on the road to ‘healing’ and the cessation of the pain suffered in the aftermath of any realtionship with an S/P/N (I love the ‘Narciopath’ tag that I think Steve coined in one of his threads – it definitely works for me!).

Keep going girl – you give me hope and strength – thanks.


Awww Thanks luv:)x I do feel stronger every day and calmer and more accepting of myself:) I feel like every day I am making (painful) positive adjustments in my thinking.
I think I said before – when I first came here, I had been completely dismantled (I was a pile of mess on the floor) but I dont think I was put together right in the first place! (imagine a beautiful shiny car that is completely held together on the inside with bubble gum and sticky tape that has by some miracle managed to keep running for all these years!) so its gonna be a good thing in the end. I really believe that.

THANKS:)X what a lovely boost:)x


It sounds to me like the ‘refurb’ of you is going well and I am very heartened.

You use the word ‘dismantled’ – well, they kind of describes how I have felt – also ‘crucified’ – by the ‘crucifying’ criticism that erodes your sense of self-worth and ability to have integrity in your own judgement.

Well, no more bubblegum and sticky tape for us! I am putting together a ‘toolkit’ – a bag of proper equipment to make the structure sound and solid. I think that that’s what we’re doing here – borrowing tools from each other to finally be able to do the job properly. Once completely, I intend to put a nice big solid suit of armour around my completed structure that only lets in light, pure oxygen and good people!

Maybe you can remind me of this when I have a ‘step backwards’ day.

All love.


sorry – typo – ‘THAT kind of describes….’

‘once complete’

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