My sociopathic ex and I meet monthly with a psychologist. The Guardian ad litem for our three children ordered us to do this after my ex filed for full custody of our two boys last year. So we’ve met with this psychologist maybe 6 times now, and neither of us had ever met him before our first meeting. All he knew about us in advance is that we’re a “high conflict” couple, and he decided that the best thing he can do for our family is to help us get along.
He’s also trying to help us settle on an agreement that doesn’t entirely eliminate my parenting time or rights. And I appreciate that.
Therapy with a Sociopath
What’s it like? It’s not that bad, really, compared to all the other things I’ve endured with this particular sociopath over the years. Basically, we sit in two chairs facing each other with a little table between us. The psychologist sits off to the side and guides us. He makes us talk to each other and look directly at one another instead of at him, and we have to call each other by name instead of saying something like, “she always does that.”
It’s a good effort. And it helps to the degree that my ex wants to impress this man. What I mean is that my ex wants full custody of our boys—remember, that’s why we’re there. So he wants the psychologist to believe that he’s the most amazing, connected parent on earth. He wants to be seen as cooperative, value-driven, and stable. And so he jumps through just about any hoop the psychologist sets up for him.
The benefit to me is that the psychologist is setting up hoops to help us “get along.” And while my ex may work to undermine that possibility as much as he can between appointments, he does have to make some public efforts now to be agreeable. He does have to report back on whether he did what he was supposed to do. And so while he’s never going to not be who he is, I have to say that it’s been kind of nice to have him working so hard to please the professional.
It makes me want to stay under evaluation like this until our kids are all grown.
What Happens Between Sessions
Of course, there’s some falling off the wagon in our daily parenting life together—including lies and manipulation. But I’ve been connected to this sociopath for a couple decades now, so I’m not surprised anymore when he says one thing and does another. I’m not shocked when what he does between sessions is—to the greatest undetected degree possible—the opposite of really getting along. He over-involves our children (no boundaries) and continues to alienate them from me. They’ll come to me angry and say, “Why are you taking Dad to court?! Dad doesn’t even know why you have to keep doing this. He can’t even take us camping this summer—not even camping—because court is costing him so much money. Why do you always do this to Dad?! Why can’t you just leave him alone. Dad just wants to get along.”
I’ll remind you again here that my ex is the one filing all the motions. I’m there because I have to be—because if I don’t show up, he’ll eliminate me from our children’s lives entirely.
And there’s no talking truth in the midst of this chaos. Our children are so lost in the whirlwind of his words that it doesn’t matter what I say. If I try to correct them about who filed what, then we just circle around and around in a pointless argument over the facts. That’s an argument I can’t win, so I don’t try very often. What I generally do is look at their experiences from a bird’s-eye view. And I see kids who are lost and upset and who really want to live their own stable lives. Who really do want us to get along. Whose long-term psychological health depends on it.
And so I do everything in my power to reduce the conflict, keep it neutral, and make my heart calm in difficult moments.
That’s an exhausting daily exercise, given that sociopaths thrive on chaos and stir it up in every moment.
And that’s co-parenting as I know it.
Standing with a Sociopath
So I stand with my ex at our children’s events. I work on my internal boundaries because there’s never going to be an external divide. No clean finish. No end.
We’re raising children together.
And our children want to see us getting along. The professionals involved—including the psychologist I mentioned—want us to sit together at athletic banquets, and they want us to save seats for each other at games and events. This may be right and it may be wrong, but it’s one of the hoops they want us to jump through. So we’re doing it.
Let me just tell you, it’s really incredibly difficult to sit next to someone who believes that God wants “people like me” to be “wiped from the face of the earth.” I’m now sending photos of our kids from my phone to someone who has broken into my house and threatened my life. I’m chatting casually with a man who coaches our sons on all the ways I’m a disgusting, valueless woman. Who wants them to hate me, and who works every day behind the scenes to make that happen.
And who is so good at hiding it that no professional involved even thinks about making it stop.
Instead, they want us to sit together.
And so we do. I can see our kids appreciating it, and so I approach my ex with a deep, calm breath—amazed by my own human strength.
I’m strong.
And I’m a victim of a sociopath.
Those things do go together.
Victims are not weak. We’re amazing. We focus on the needs of our children in a flawed system. We do what it takes to “get along.” We create peaceful moments in the face of chaos, and we put our shoulders back and take the next step.
Even when it means we have to stand by the sociopath. Day after day, year after year.
We do what it takes.
HG Beverly – OMG – I admire your strength. But I have to wonder about the psychologist. Does this man really get what is going on?
I realize you have to do this in order to stay in your kids’ lives. But do you think it is actually adding to their confusion?
Even from the perspective of the sociopath – he spends so much time telling them how terrible you are – and then chats amicably with you in public? Does he explain that?
What, as a therapist, would you recommend for situations like yours? What should professionals really be doing?
Hi Donna,
The psychologist does not have a clear picture of what’s happening or who he’s dealing with. If I try to explain our history, he cuts me off and says that I need to focus on moving forward. Not on the past. And then he explains his thoughts on “how to get along” to both of us, and we’re expected to have a light bulb go off over each of our heads. Then we’re supposed to leave the session and behave according to our new knowledge.
The down side of this is that a sociopath just fakes it. As you know. And then works to undermine any positive progress made in any direction.
My kids are going to suffer. They do suffer. They’re absolutely confused. And it’s been so bad for so long that I think I’m clinging to any positive thing I get. If their dad is behaving in public instead of yelling across the parking lot that I’m a slut-mistress (or some other ridiculous thing), then I count that as some kind of peace for them.
Professionals haven’t helped with that deeper reality of what happens outside of their offices. And they can’t help if they’re not trained to see. I believe that most clinicians do not have enough training and are human enough to be fooled. Aren’t we all? If we could fix only one thing, I would ask that the professionals who are involved in these difficult cases be capable of assessing a sociopath. And then know what to do about it.
The psychologist we’re ordered to work with has specialized in suicide. He’s good at what he does in that area. But do you think he knows how to deal with our family dynamics?
Anyway, the next thing I would change is the court’s level of awareness and empathy around these issues. Because even if a professional can see what’s happening and advises the court accordingly, the court can still choose to ignore their recommendations entirely.
The system is set up to reward the aggressor, and if that aggressor manages to be charming while telling devastating lies, then there’s no telling what can happen to his/her victims.
I could go on and on about the changes I’d like to see in the way professionals handle these cases, and so maybe that’s an indication that I should write some posts on this topic.
But back to my situation for a moment before I close… I do believe it’s incredibly confusing for my kids. And the psychologist doesn’t get to hear the way my ex talks to them about me. If I try to explain these details to him, he thinks I sound paranoid. He reminds me to focus on the present and what I can do to make things better.
Round and round we go.
So look for some upcoming posts on what I think professionals could/should do differently in these situations. I’ll be more specific (and organized) with my thoughts. I do have a lot of ideas about what could help our children in particular.
Thanks for your comment,
H.G.
Getting the point across to society that there are morally disordered parents is absolutely essential to bring about change.
The court wears a blindfold where character disorder is concerned.
Character disordered parents get the backing of the court system because manipulators are skilled at bending opinion in any and every environment.
The first step in any divorce, whenever children are involved, should be to require that a trained professional administer an analysis which encompasses the use of the Hare checklist in determining what is going on between the parties.
And therapists who are appointed to intervene on behalf of children, particularly due to conflicted relationships between parents, should be well aware of the possibility of character disorder.
Joyce
The problem with the court system is that it’s about proof, and not about reality. You have correctly assessed that the therapist who is ordered by the childrens’ guardian ad litem is not sanctioned to help either of the two of you in any way that differs with your getting along for the “benefit” of your children.
One thing that may make the situation clearer to the therapist is if you asked for them to speak with the children directly because you fear that your “soon to be ex,” is attempting to alienate them. If you can tape your kids making comments of this type, and bring them to your session, it may open his eyes. The next time your child says a thing like that, you might ask them if they would mind repeating it so you can record it and discuss it with the counselor. That way, you won’t be blindsiding them. They will likely do so, because they want relief from the anguish they feel.
I know how deeply painful it is to hear attacks on your loyalty and love come out of the mouths of the children you adore. Been there, done that. You deserve a medal!!
Our system is ridiculously flawed. It treats parents as if only the complaining parent is an offender, and their offense is complaining. They give no merit to the horrific behavior of morally dysfunctional parents. Your children are being manipulated not only by their father, but also by this horrific system. The light at the end of the tunnel is that they will not be children forever.
Trying to stay calm, give them a hug, and simply say, “I didn’t do that” is something that will stay with them as they grow.
Wishing you strength and love.
Joyce
Hello, Joyce,
Thanks for the well-wishes and recommendations. It will never stop being affirming and empowering to hear others say that the system is flawed. It’s not just me! Not just my perspective. What’s happening is really WRONG. I appreciate you for saying that.
I also like your “I didn’t do that” calm hug idea. It’s good for me to state the truth while skirting around the conflict. They often come to me from their dad feeling angry about something their dad has them convinced that I’m doing to him. He stirs them up and points them at me. Stirs them up some more—and again, points them at me. It’s an awful experience for them, and I believe that if I engaged with their anger every time, we would spend far too much time being manipulated into a frenzy by their father—even from afar. So I work hard to keep it calm and just let them experience me for who I am.
It’s a lot of work.
I don’t know about taping them because sometimes they say these things directly to the Guardian. And his response is to feel confused. He wonders why they’re so angry with me and thinks it must be because of something I’ve done. Which is natural. It’s a super clever sociopathic trick. Make the kids upset with me by getting them to feel sorry for him for ways I’m “hurting” him. It doesn’t matter that I’m not doing any of it.
So when the psychologist asks, “Does your dad say bad things about your mom?” They’ll say “no.” Because instead of verbally attacking me himself, he inspires them to want to attack me by getting them to pity him. By making me look like I’m hurting him. Our only saving grace is that when they do get time with me, they can see and remember who I am. And we actually have a great relationship—historically great, I should say. It’s certainly being tested. But if I can keep some time with them, they won’t forget.
If the court takes away our time, then it’s all over.
They need to experience me to remember.
Thanks again for your well-wishes, Joyce. I’m hanging in there.
H.G.
HG-
In an effort to let you know that not being there, may not have the adverse reaction you suspect, my ex did not see my son for 12 years. No support, no birthday cards, no nothing. He disappeared off the grid. Where he disappeared to will shock you, and it’s contained in my book, so I’m not going there except to say that it might change the image that Elvis Presley’s music conjures up for you. Hopefully, as people read the book, they will associate Elvis’s history and music with the concept that psychopaths exist and will mainstream the issue into public awareness.
But suffice it to say, my son had absolutely not a moment’s discussion with our child from the time he was 6 ’til he reached 18. Had the internet been what it is today, that would not have been possible. But this goes back a few years.
My son wanted to be in touch with his father when he turned 18, and I reached out for help to make that happen for him. I though it would help him heal from the devastation of abandonment. Little did I know that his father would blame his disappearance, one of the most horrific things a person could do to a child,on me, and that my 18 year old son, who I adored with every fiber of my being, would fall prey to his manipulation and believe him. The intensity of his father’s absence would inspire him to believe anything. So the father who had not lifted a finger for him in all those years became the “good” guy, and I became that horrible mother who “drove him away.”
There was no reasoning that a father that wants to be there for you could not possibly be driven away or that a father who wants to be there for you can apply to the courts if the mother is standing in the way. There was not a single instance in which he filed any interest in seeing his son. It defied every rational thought that one could have, but a couple of years later, knowing that his absurdly affluent father hated me, he told me, “Now that I’m independent, what do I need you for?” and I haven’t seen him since.
I tell you this so you can know that there is no saying what the end result will be. How a child’s brain absorbs betrayal is not something that anyone can predict.
Whether you are in your children’s lives or not is not necessarily the predictor of your long term relationship. But it will rob them and you of the impact your love and devotion can have on their development.
Joyce
You are incredibly strong & courageous to go to these “therapy” sessions and follow this therapist parenting methods….
For me I am so sick of the court system shoving a victim of abuse into a room with their abusers over and over. Would they do this with a rape victim for years or a victim of child abuse = NO. I would highly recommend that you petition the court for a full mental evaluation of your ex, the book “Divorcing a narcissist, Advise from the battlefield” by Tina Swiftin is a very good book for info on this subject, and her book “Divorcing a Narcissist, One mom’s battle”, check out her site One moms battle/read her blog/fb pg. Even though your divorce is over these books have a ton of info with regards to dealing with your ex & the court but most importantly for You to know are not alone in your daily battle with your crazy ex.
As for sitting in front of your ex and being subjected to this “therapist” methods, there is no way I would ever agree to that, as we all know it is emotionally damaging to our body, mind & spirit to be around a sociopath. To me this therapist is either a sociopath him or is absolutely clueless about sociopathic manipulative behavior or that they can mind control, brain wash, gas light etc to further abuse their victim.
I wonder if you are still under your ex’s mind control with these “therapy sessions” and that is why you are allowing this therapist to not allow you to truly heal with no contact (low contact rule with kids) and to have closure. The book “Freedom of Mind” by Steven Hassan is excellent at explain the mind control aspect of a psychopath/sociopath.
Your kids do not need you to sit next to your ex, or to have you save a seat to have a happy childhood…instead kids need to learn from the healthy parent that it is imperative in this dangerous world that to set boundaries, follow your gut and not allow someone to abuse you over and over. Sitting next to your abuser to me is abuse and you will never yourself get closure for your horrible relationship it you are connected to your abuser.
You deserve to have a peaceful life without having to deal with your ex, you deserve to have closure and to get this abusive man out of your life as much as possible with kids. YOU are in control of your life and your destiny please do not allow this therapist to manipulate you because of his lack of understanding with regards to sociopathic abuse.
Please remember there are countless therapist in your area who are knowledgeable about sociopathic behavior…it’s ok to find a new one then petition the court based on the sole fact you are still connected to your abuser. Check with your local abuse center to see it they have a recommendation. This therapist’s methods work when you are dealing with a healthy minded individual but they do not work with a sociopath..no counseling works with a sociopath they will always do what they want = never follow anyones rules.
Dont settle just because this is “all you know”…you settled in your marriage for far to long, don’t settle now. Educate yourself on what your rights are in the court as a abuse victim and hear from other mothers in your same situation you are (dealing with a sociopath after divorce) to hear how they were able to get the ex to do the court ordered motions and how they deal with the ex’s smear campaign with regards to their children. There are other methods so that you can have peace and not be attracted to your ex.
I want you to know that what you have been doing to keep peace is incredible & shows you are a strong women of incredible amount of integrity…but you deserve so much better then what the court is requiring you to endure.
Wishing you all the best!
My heart just breaks for her so much…I just can not imagine having to sit across from a sociopath in these “counseling sessions” every month…the court system is so out of control and clueless about abuse. The courts are run by men and pass the blame on the women so sick of it.
The only thing I can recommend to HG is to look through Onemomsbattle.com & fb because she is not alone in her fight…that site will give her some guidance. Getting a full evaluation on her ex is crucial.
I am not saying that HG should not comply absolutely she needs to follow the court orders, but court orders can be changed if she has good argument in front of the judge & good solid court motions to get things changed…. she just needs some guidance from a legal aid to guide in the legal system.
HG I am praying for you…god bless you!
I really hate what these evil people have done to the good people of this world.
HG Beverly,
I looked up parental alienation. I thought it referred to what a evil parent did to the submissive parent. But I learned it’s a term used by the courts to order just what you are enduring. They say it’s a high conflict couple but really, you are the target as high conflict because you are trying to protect your child from him. As such, you are being treated by the system as the enemy. Every attempt by you to get them to see his manipulations is used as proof that you are alienating your children.I am so so sad and pray that you prevail. They use a mother’s very nurturing loving protective natural NORMAL behaviors as wrong, as bad. This process is really messed up. They aren’t looking at what is happening, they are only assessing that the victim of a sociopath complies and submits to whatever they dictate because she has been judged a bad parent. There is NO underestimating a sociopath. He is in his element in the court system. Prayers. Lots of Prayers for you and your babies.
HG, you are so right about “…recover from trauma all starts after the trauma is over”…this is why the abuser keeps us in court…this is why they drag it all out over years…it’s all to continual to control us and to break us down. Sadly the courts allow this over and over and over…how many victims are in the court system right now?
During my divorce it was shocking how easily my ex was able to manipulate everyone…I knew he was masterful at this with me, his family & friends…but it does it to everyone…society needs to wake up and start listen to the victims of all abuse because we are all telling them the truth!
You are in my thoughts and prays…wishing nothing but sunny days for you and your children. Take care.
I was given some advice to come to this site from a friend of mine. I am in such a state of turmoil and confusion. I lived with and dated a man for 6 years..the relationship started out as a lie and I should have known then, but we went on 6 years, many lies about stupid things. I found out after a few months of dating him he had not 1, but 2 children. One with a different woman. The baby was 9 months old, and I stayed with him. He said he did not tell me about the child because he did not think it was his. I raised this baby with him on weekends and holidays and thru 6 years, as well as his 5 year old and my son. We had many many arguments ..always over him lying to me about things. One year, he lost his job of 5 years. I did not know at the time he lost this job..he would shower and wake up..leave work when I did and then come home. The only way I found out he had lost his job, was I emailed him one day just saying hi and the email kicked back,I called the enterprise branch and they advised me he did not work there. After this happened, I freaked out of course because he had been lying to me. Rather then explain what happened he took off…and ended in the hospital. He said I had caused him so much stress he had chest pains. He ended up in the mental ward of the hospital for 3 days and would not speak to me..i was on a restricted list only his ex wife he let in. I was confused and hurt and he blamed me for landing him in there and so did his family. So, he came home after this and we talked it thru. In 2010 I lost my 36 year old sister, and he took care of me and was very good for me and there for me. Of course lies kept going on here and there. we talked about engagement as I am 35 and wanted to be married at some point. I thought of him as my best friend and always forgave him for his lies. He was very nice when he wanted to be, but very evil also. A few months ago, Jan 31st we had a argument over rent. He decided he was going to pay it 5 days late and didn’t discuss it with me..or tell me why if he was having money issues. He said he was paying it late to sit on his money a few days. I disputed this with him..and he did not come home. It is not April 20th, and after 2 months of him using the excuse that I threw him out over rent, that he needed time to fox himself..i have been discarded. I found out he had been seeing not 1, but 2 women at work one that he moved in with already. All his belongings are in out home..he has not helped me with money as he promised. Before I had found out about these women..he was saying he would come home one night a week and try to work things out. He would show up..and often I would hear him talking in the downstairs bathroom. I asked him whos talking or who he was talking to, he said no one I was hearing things. The day I found him at the young 27 year ols place (hes 38) he had told me he was staying at his sons because his ex wife was out of town. he called me and whispered goodnight and said he was whispering because the child was asleep. that morning I woke up..and decided to drive by the sons home. He was not there. I then headed over to the girls house whos address I had obtained from a mutal friend. as I pulled up to the apartment complex he called me. I asked him where he was , he said at his sons house like he had told me. I told him he is NOT there..he continued to tell me he was. I then saw his van. I told him I was parked next to his van..and he came out. I questioned him what he was doing there and all he said was shes a friend get away from me. I sat on hood of the van and would not move I wanted answers and was devastated. He called the police on me for not letting him leave. The police came and talked with us both and that was the end of that. The next few days I did not speak with him. He then called and said he had ended everything with nikki that they were just friends and she wanted nothing to do with him. I believed him ..he said he was coming home. A few days past that I got a text message from a woman whom he works with that she confirmed he had been trying to hook up with her since septemeber, and he had even invited her to out home while I was at work. I confronted him and he right away left work and filed a peace order on me. I have all his things in the home..he hasn’t even been back he threw me and my 18 yr old son away just like that. In court..my mother was crying and asked him why he is doing this..she said to him ” you told me you loved her”. He responded ‘ I do love her”. the judge asked if I wanted to consent to the order..i did simply because he DID have enough phone records of me calling I did not care to dispute. When the judge asked him how long he wants the order..he replied 2 months I guess I don’t want to get her in trouble. Sorry to ramble on here but my life has been turned upside down and im in such despair that he has moved on so fast after 6 years..thrown us away and not even caring to get his things or talk. the sick part is I miss him,.i should be angry. I cant sleep..eat..nothing. I simply don’t know what to do to recover
Taralav, I am sorry that you have been through hell, you have found the right page to help you understand all the chaos you have been enduring at the hands of this very manipulative man. If you go up to the top of Lovefraud here under the red/grey tab read everything & watch all Donna’s videos located there too plus read Donna’s books…all of this will open your mind from all of your ex’s mind control.
Just like a cult leader (who are sociopath/psychopaths) these guys use mind control, gas lighting abuse, reward & punishment, install fear & phobia’s etc to control their victims …so now you must open your mind up from his mind control otherwise he will just suck you back into to his warped dysfunctional chaotic world over and over. Have everyone of your family members & friends come to this site too so they too fully understand who this man is because he may go to them to get them to help suck you back into his life (they are ruthless and masterful at this behavior).
Google:
“No contact rule narcissist”….follow this rule starting now!!!, do not waver from it…it is the only way to break the emotional bond that he has created, the bond with a sociopath is exactly like an addiction so you will have a “withdraw” period so don’t weaver. You will NEVER get closure from this man by talking with him, he will never tell you the truth ever, the only thing you need to know for closure is he is a very disordered person and he will only make your life a living hell if he stays in it. Educating yourself on his disorder is the closure you are looking for.
google “gas lighting abuse narcissist”
You know in your gut he is a liar, a manipulator, abuser, he will start a smear campaign against you so you must get him out of your life starting today. He will beg you, he will cry, to get you back in his life when these other women finally wise up & kick him out of their life…don’t buy his con game…he will never change, you know who he is = a liar, manipulator, cheater etc.
Call the National Domestic Abuse Center 800-799-SAFE (USA) 24/7 to talk with a free counselor and for your local abuse center number, go to your local abuse center’s free women group meetings & free counseling this week…they will help open your mind up too, provide great support. Do not feel embarrassed to go…going there will be one of the best things you have ever done for yourself.
Please know you are not alone…keep reaching out for help there are many facebook pages for great support including “after narcissistic abuse”. I know you feel emotionally, mentally out of control sadly this is how we all felt when leaving. google “adrenal fatigue” & “adrenal fatigue symptoms” this is what physically happens to our bodies with the continual stress & chaos these evil people bring into our lives. Find a good hormonal specialist who will test you for cortisol levels, vitamin/mineral deficiency & hormonal imbalance (adrenal fatigue issues) once all this is balanced you will have less anxiety.
I am truly sorry that you have been through so much, I am glad your friend guided you here tonight…others will post here for you too so keep checking in. Take care.
Jan7,
Your comments are so strong and determined. I have been to many counselors and none can steer me in the direction of treatment for someone involved with a sociopath. How do you find someone who specializes? I’m getting no help except for this and other blogs. When No Contact is not possible, you are correct, they continue to manipulate and control. I’m still lost in the confusion. We are separated so I do have peace in my daily life but I would love to have more support from a professional. I am reading everything I can get my hands on.
Thank you for your wise advice posted earlier.
Hopingtoheal, there are many counselors who are clueless about sociopathic abuse, sadly I went to two “marriage” counselors when I was trying to figure out why my husbands behavior was out of control. Even though I told these two counselors that he was manipulative, lied, cheated, had no remorse, guilt, was controlling etc (the whole list of sociopath traits literally) neither of them told me to get out of the marriage asap for my safety, sadly I stayed another 7 years in hell which got progressively worse after the counseling sessions. It was not until I left him did I find a counselor who told me the truth within the first 20 mins of my first session, finally the answer I had been praying for and the reason to let go of my marriage for good . For me it was luck, a friend gave me this counselors number when I asked her if she had a recommendation.
I would suggest you call your local abuse center to see if they have an outside female counselor recommendation, if not then I suggest you call a list of counselors you find in your area and interview them via phone specifically their knowledge about sociopathic/narcissist abuse. Im not sure if Donna here has a list of therapist or not so maybe look through her site but you can also do phone counseling with Steven Hassan of freedomofmind.com, he is the author of Freedom of mind he might have a recommendation in your area as well. Steven Hassan is a cult/abusive relationship expert who has been on Larry King Live, 60 mins, The John Walsh Show, all the national morning shows. Tina Swiftin of OneMomsbattle.com she keeps a list of lawyers & therapist who are knowledgeable in this area, not sure if they are on her site or not but you can email her. Her facebook page one moms battle is a great support for those going through divorce & court custody issue’s like yourself. Before you make any changes to your court order ask questions on facebook page One moms battle to see how the courts reacted to what you are thinking. I would suggest you open a fake email acct then a face facebook page that way your ex will not see what you are posting/asking on that site.
I felt during my marriage that my husband was brain washing me even though I knew nothing about brain washing. After the counselor told me my husband was a sociopath I asked if my husband was brain washing me, he said YES! From there I researched brain washing and it lead me to the book Freedom of mInd which was eye opening and gave me the understanding that I needed to undue all the mind control my husband did to me throughout our marriage. For me I looked at old pictures, went to my old schools, talked with old friends, etc but most importantly opened my mind up from the thinking that my ex made me think during our marriage (which felt like tunnel vision). This is a huge part of the healing process…the other part for me was just reading everything about his disorder over and over I could get my hands…Donna’s site/books here was a true blessing on my dark days & nights. Donna has a list of books she recommends on her site also.
I am really sorry that I was so blunt in my post to your, my heart just ached for you having to sit across from your ex like that after finally escape his abuse…I was also thinking it would be to much emotionally/mentally for me to have to endure that with my ex so I think my emotions were running over on your post. The one thing I have learned is to ask “professionals” questions and question their methods. But most importantly listen to your gut. If you google “Oprah gavin debecker you tube” she has a few post “life classes” (??) that give a great reminder to always follow your gut.
google “low contact rule narcissist” and “low contact rule” this is the rule you follow when you have kids…basically no phone/text communication with them…only email, keep it short & to the point, keep emotions out of the email this way you can use it in court if you need to & never answer them the same day as your emotions may get the best of you better to wait a day or two. Never respond to any of his ranting emails ever as he wants to push your buttons and get you to come unglued. Also never be alone with them always have another adult with you..or meet in a spot with a camera such as a fast food place, coffee shop all again for court….never trust them ever.
Since you say you are just separated I worry that when your divorce is finalized your ex will become a complete nightmare with the court custody and he is like you say just playing his game right now to “look like a good guy”…this is another reason why it is important for you to find a separate individual counselor for you only who is extremely knowledgeable to help you heal but also help you in court if needed and hopefully give you a recommendation for a joint court therapist. Sociopaths are always setting up a con…so having a joint therapist who knows he is conning now is important the current counselor does not seem to be knowledgable or interested in that aspect of it. This is also why it is important to get a full mental eval on him now.
Take care.
Jan7,
Thank you for the direction and examples of your experiences. The “tunnel vision” comment is spot on! That is a perfect description of how their mind games make us feel. I will read the Steve Hassen book. I’m sure it will be helpful.
When I said earlier that you sound strong and determined, it was a complement! I can hear in your words that you have reconciled the “truths” of your life and have a very clear picture. You have a wealth of knowledge that must have really helped you. I think all of us on LF long to feel that way. Your observations are so helpful.
i have my strong days,but they are peppered along with the days of self doubt, confusion and low self esteem. When I try to co No Contact, he causes me so much grief. Low contact is really the only way to go right now, but he is still able to work little comments in to make me doubt myself. The last one was “Are you still working out?” . He just asked that out of the blue when we were having taxes prepared. I didn’t allow the conversation to go any further, but later OF COURSE, I start examining my physical shape and analyzing my weight. It was a blatant kick to my self esteem and he planned for it to bother me.
Like I said, my counselors have blown off all my questions about his behavior. Most have accredited my concerns to my own fear from trauma, although our first marriage counselor stated that my husband’s case was the worse case he had ever heard of. He didn’t specify What it was the worst case of. However, he did refuse to treat us anymore. I need an ally. I will look into your suggestions and all the books you have suggested. Please keep the info coming in your post. It’s all Very helpful!
Jan7
By the grace of God, I found a counselor that helped me save myself. But I went through several who were the worst pits of despair.
I think a good counselor is very very difficult to find. They know that emotional trauma is a money maker, so bad counselors hang that shingle. It’s to make money, not to actually save the poor desperate victim of a sociopath. Yes, there are good therapists, but they are very very difficult to find.
People advise: get a good divorce lawyer. BS. There is no such animal, or if there is, I haven’t met one. I got my divorce b/c I had healed enough to create an action plan and actually used a sociopaths bible to understand what was going to happen, and I found countermeasures. I did not get equal distribution of assets. That’s a joke, even though it’s the law, the only way to stop the bleed of assets and get free is to agree to walk away. God forbid I had children of the age. Mine were grown so he could not use them in that way (he did, but not that way).
Poor HG Beverly is stuck in the legal system. That therapist is doing the job heShe was hired to do, NOT what serves the best interest of HG or the children, or even the sociopath. There’s no therapy. They are court ordered fee based income earning control freaks who fits in perfect with the sociopath who is using the system to abuse his victim, this is not the behavior of a caring therapist. The sociopath loves the game of outsmarting the therapist, the game of winning the kids. He doesn’t want the kids. He just loves winning the game of Dog in the Manger. It would be nice to see her prevail, to apply the Laws of Power and War and find a solution.
Notwhathesaidtome. And Jan7,
I’d like your opinion on this situation, if you don’t mind. My Spath husband “revealed” to me that he is a sex addict. For the last year and a half, he has sought treatment on an irregular basis. No true dedication, however I believed his story about the addiction and was sympathetthic in my approach until I read Donna’s book LOVEFRAUD. Now, I can look back and see how he set up the whole revelation in hopes that I would divorce him and he’d be free to move on with his other (or one of the many) women. Recently he told our counselor that he is in a relationship with another woman. I’ve been to an attorney and we are separated, but he begs me not to divorce because “he has an addiction” and he hopes we will work things out. Now he’s asked me to pay for him to go away to a week long therapy to jump start his therepy.
WTH? This is a well known facility that will require him to be alcohol and drug free for a month before he attends…I know he can’t comply with this. Also, he’s never seriously applied any therapy or nor did he attend meetings or counseling weekly, more like once a month. He never even read the books required. Now he has a girlfriend so I’m guessing addiction isn’t the issue. He’ chooses to be a WHOREHOUND (sorry if that word is offensive)
Of course, I don’t want to pay and feel like it would be throwing money away, but for the life of me, I can’t see his angle. How can he use this to manipulate me? Any ideas?
Hoping, he probably regards a week of rehab like a week-long paid vacation in a country club. With a room full of other “sex addicts” like himself, he would be able to find new sex partners/victims. And his angle is that if you would fund this vacation for him, he would be free of the addiction – for the sake of your marriage. **cough cough** If you believe that, I have some swamp land to sell you in Florida.
I used to know a sociopath neighbor in the next building over. This was many years ago before I knew what they were. He was a high profile drug dealer. Every few years he would land in prison. But he didn’t mind being there because – aside from the free place to live with 3 meals a day and better healthcare than the rest of the population – he got to make connections there. Then when he would get out, he’d chat up his new drug connections from prison and start all over. He actually told me this. It’s all a big game to them.
All good points Stargazer. I’ve always felt like he used his support groups to get ideas of ways to score. His sexual addiction group had their annual nationally meeting in Las Vegas. What’s up with that? And it seemed like a good idea for this group of “recovering” pervs to meet up in Las Vegas.
I agree with this is a way for him to have a nice vacation while I foot the bill. Nothing is ever done out of sincerity, there is always an angle. Thanks for your take on it. It goes right along with what my gut was saying. I’m not playing that game,.
Not to mention that he’s not JUST a sex addict. He’s a sociopath. They are all sex addicts unless they get their thrills in other ways. Not all sex addicts are sociopaths. But sex addiction is very difficult to break regardless because the rewards are so great. For a sociopath, it’s impossible because they have no motivation to stop. And yes, they probably enjoy being in these groups waiting for someone to fall off the wagon.
A guy cheats on me once and I’m done. I don’t buy this “sex addiction” stuff. To me, it’s a fancy phrase for cheating X 1000. Either a guy cheats or he doesn’t. Lying and cheating are pretty black and white to me.
Hoping to Heal
Congrats. Your spouse has found a way for you to pay for him to have sex with others. This will be your lifestyle from now on. You will pay for him to emotionally, financially abuse you.
You have to decide if this is the life you want. You have no marriage. It will get worse. There is no saving it.
“How can he use this to manipulate you”. Because he can. He is that type of person. He has the will, and as long as he is married to you, he has the means.
I am sorry. It’s a very sad situation. We all have such terrible situations.
When you have had enough, you will set about to free yourself so you can have a chance at something better in life. It won’t happen as along as you are married to him. There is NO solution. There is no avoiding the pain. The only way is THROUGH the pain.
LISTEN to yourself! He has a girlfriend and you are still trying to figure a way to make it work. That tells me how numbed you are to pain.
I know my response to you is blunt. But you need the truth. His angle is to use you for money and enjoy his fun with whomever he pleases. He doesn’t have a sex addiction, he has a big patsy, YOU. You need to know that you are worth better than this. But only you can make that happen. And again, it will only happen when you decide to free yourself of the soulsucker who has latched onto sucking the life force from you. You have soul sisters here who will cry and empathize with you. But you still have to do the actual divorce. Once you do, you will be like me, so relieved and free that you wish you could have talked to your former self and done it sooner.
He is unmasked. He is soulless and ugly. Avoiding looking at him will not change that.
Sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry because Heartbreak is normal for you. That’s just not right. I hope you will decide it’s not good enough anymore.