By | October 28, 2011 230 Comments

Steve Jobs – a remarkable man taken down and his life cut short by a “psychopath”

By Joyce Alexander, RNP (Retired)

I was reading an article about Steve Jobs’ new biography that came out this past week, and some of the stories about his life. There is no doubt in my mind that Steve Jobs was one of the smartest and most savvy guys in the Twentieth Century. The inventions that he fostered or personally thought of have changed our society and our culture, and remarkably changed the communication field. An amazing man!

You may have read the title of this article and are already wondering how Steve Jobs was killed by a “psychopath.” Jobs died of the terminal stages of pancreatic cancer. He was diagnosed with this very serious form of cancer. Apparently, according to what I read, it was a slower growing kind of this cancer, and if he had had surgery right then, there is a good chance that he might have actually effected a cure and be alive even today.

That wasn’t what Steve chose to do, though ”¦ he chose to deny the seriousness and the urgency to take drastic action immediately to exorcise the tumor out of his system. He did not essentially “go NO CONTACT” with the toxic, malignant entity that had silently invaded his body. As smart as Jobs was, and even though he had access to the best and most knowledgeable physicians in the world, he did not take the “appropriate action” to have the surgery. Jobs told his biographer that he did “not want to be cut open like that.” He later regretted that decision and even realized that it may have cost him his life.

His biographer says that he ultimately saw that the colon cleansing and other “new age” treatments did nothing for him, and nine months after he turned down after recommended surgery, Jobs finally decided to have it—what is called a “Whipple procedure” to remove the tumor. It was too late; he had missed that narrow “window of opportunity” in which he could have saved his life. He “got a divorce” from the tumor too late, the damage had been done. Though Steve Jobs fought valiantly for the next decade, the ultimate “win” by the psychopathic cancer was a foregone conclusion. He had failed to excise the cancer from his life while it was small.

Psychopaths as cancers

Too many times, I see psychopathic relationships with “malignant” individuals, and like cancers, they may grow inside us without being detectable as toxic until one day, even before we know they are toxic, the fatal damage has been done. Or, we may get a chance recognize them and to excise them when they are “small” in relationship to the rest of our lives. We can remove them without leaving large scars or holes in our lives. If we get this chance to remove the “malignant” people from our lives and we, like Steve Jobs, decide on a “want and see” plan, we allow them to grow and infiltrate our lives more fully, so that if and when we do decide to “surgically” remove them from our lives, the hole and the scars that they leave is much larger and more debilitating than if we had “done the surgery” when the situation wasn’t quite so ingrown.

Jesus talked about “if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, if thy hand offend thee, cut it off,” and went on to analogize that it is better to live a life with one eye or one hand than to live in “hell” with two eyes or two hands. Sometimes I think the “surgery” necessary to remove the psychopathic personality from our lives is very much like “plucking out your own eye” or “cutting off your own hand” with a rusty butcher knife. But the point of the situation is that in order to live a good life, or in some cases to live at all, we must make the hard decision to excise the toxic person, or the malignant tumor, from our lives as soon as we know what they are. Waiting around, treating this toxic, malignant issue with “kindness and love,” isn’t going to remove it from our lives or our bodies, or change it into something benign. We must take drastic and surgical action to remove this malignant person from our lives completely.

Removing those around the psychopath

That may also mean taking out the “lymph nodes” of the people around the cancerous person, just like the doctor will remove lymph nodes from around a breast containing cancer where that malignancy has spread into those nodes so that they, in turn, don’t spread the toxin to the rest of the body. It is unfortunate but true that a toxic psychopath will frequently have spread their lies and toxins to other people around us that we may also love ”¦ their families, our mutual friends, etc. A “cure” from the toxic psychopath may require us to be NC with those people too, and excise them from our lives as well. The longer the psychopath has been in our lives and the more deeply involved, the more likely this will be necessary. Failing to “bite the bullet” and do this as well may result in a recurrence of the malignancy this person leaves in our lives.

Steve Jobs was a significant personality in our culture. Of course there is no guarantee that if he had elected to have the surgery sooner rather than later, that he would have lived longer or better, but I can guarantee that living with a psychopathic person longer, or trying every “alternative” cure, except total surgical removal, isn’t going to improve your life in any way.

I think even in his death, Steve Jobs left us one more important thing ”¦ a lesson for anyone involved with a toxic relationship of any kind.

Comment on this article

Please Login to comment
Notify of

A sociopath is NOT an evil entity as it is being portrayed-
the “con artist” in that respect, YES i can understand that, the cheating lover with no conscience and who lies pathologically is another example,
BUT socicopaths are not cancers, that is an extremely bold statement considering the most common sociopath in america, is the fickle diagnosed biopolar teen, with 200 facebook friends, who only knows 10, and has a mom and dad tone and manorism, but spontaneouly swears or whatever when hes with his friends or playing xbox.

You can mix it up or compare and contrast but the overall “sociopathic” MINDSET- because thats its exact prose, is about the sequence of thought behind closed doors. It is not all about ulterior motive. It is not a cancer. YES it would be great if everyone could be completely honest all the time, because that would be the only cure for the “cancer”. But it would be great if everyone thought the same also. Theres no meds for sociopathy, WHY? Because its a way of thinking. and it ranges from the most innoscent to the most cold blooded,
Every case of sociopathy is different because every mind is also, along with every motvie and expectation.

And as far as dating a psychopath, or being the victim of one-
PEOPLE GET LIED TO, try not to be vulnerable.
“I can call it whole kernnel golden whatever,… but its just corn”
I was once the victim of my fathers sociopathy, but he just lied alot”
DO YOU GET IT??… anyone can add emphasis and exploit.
just to shed light,…
good psychopath is oblivious, bad psychopath knows all to well.

I am leaving the above posts to remind us of how “the other side” thinks. Please don’t respond.

the sisterhood

Hi Oxy,
I think your post makes excellent points. The only thing that I don’t agree with is using Steve Jobs as an example. From what I have heard about his life, he has all the markings of a sociopath himself (corporate). His biographer was on Nightline the other night telling George Stephonopholis about how Jobs could see the emotional weaknesses in people and really hone in on them and in the process shatter these people. According to this biographer, he was violently explosive and would rant and rave at those who did not agree with him.

Jobs also denied his daughter for years and years. He screwed a lot of people who were the closest to him. For all of the “Great Contributions” this guy made to society, I still have a difficult time separating the man from his accomplishments.

I think his denial of having surgery that could have saved his life was also an extremely arrogant move on his part. He had this belief that he had “special” powers to be able to manipulate outcomes. He even said that he could make other people do what he wanted just by thinking it.

In my opinion, this guy was the best example of Malignant Narcissism out there.

Great article, though.



Wow. Just wow.



Thanks for that info…I appreciate it. I had not heard these things about Jobs, but always wondered…it seems that ANYONE who is that wildly successful has to have some narcissism…just my opinion. Thanks for the insight. I am anxious to read more about him.


Very good analogy, though it has made me think about what I would do if I were diagnosed with cancer. With no family and few resources, I don’t know if I’d have the strength or the will to fight it. I wonder who would take care of me if I had to have a surgery or go through chemo? And who would pay the bills after the fact? It’s hard to understand someone in Jobs’ position not opting for the surgery. But I can understand normal everyday folks who try to take the more natural route, even if less effective. I think usually people can’t really comprehend the prospect of death unless it is staring them in the face. And at that point, it’s too late.

Perhaps the same can be said about people who stay with sociopaths thinking they will leave “one of these days.” They don’t realize that one day will be too late, and there will be so much damage done as to seem nearly irreparable. Toxic people really are like cancer, and I believe they can cause cancer in the victims through the inescapable stress they inflict on their victims.

Good article, Oxy.


I like this way of looking at the death of Steve Jobs. I didn’t think of cancer in a sociopathic manner or the refusal to remove it on Steve Jobs’ behalf. I must admit though at first I thought you said Steve Jobs’ was a sociopath. I was about to be like WHAT? But it did lure me into reading it though and learn how serious you need to remove a sociopath from your life.
I just wanted to share with you guys that I got a job! Its not much but its better than nothing. I hope and pray it all works out!


Congratulations on the new job!

Ox Drover


Glad you got a job. Good first step in making yourself independent of your folks.

Sisterhood, I have heard a few of the same examples about Steve Jobs “less than stellar” behavior on a personal level as well as on a business level….but I was not trying to analyze him as a narcissist or psychopath, but to show how a “psychopath” that is not removed from our lives is FATAL. Removing them is NECESSARY to our survival and sometimes it depends on timing as well. If we do it EARLY we live, but if we “fiddle fart” around and DELAY sometimes even then removing them is still fatal.

My husband worked for one of the men who was one of the “movers and shakers” of his own time, William “Bill” P. Lear….he invented the car radio, the 8-track tape player, several very important early navigation aids for air planes, the Lear Jet…etc. and the man I believe was a malignant narcissistic arse….he continually cheated on his wifes (4) though his last wife just ignored it (at least publicly) and was with him for 35 years…. from what I have heard about Bill however, I don’t think he was one of the GLEEFUL ones who ENJOYED the pain he caused to the women in his life, etc. but who knows? In any case, Lear was an exceptional man, very bright, successful and made a big difference in the business and professional world, but I sure as heck wouldn’t have wanted to be his child or his wife. Steve Jobs may have been the same way, who knows? But the point I was trying to make was about his DELAY in removing the “psychopath” from his life probably COST him his life, or at least a CHUNK of it. Even SMART people make bad judgments based on EMOTION rather than LOGIC, and in this case, Jobs made a VERY BAD DECISION based in denial of reality.

I have made some SUPER BAD DECISIONS based in denial of the truth, and did NOT remove some of the psychopaths from my life in a timely manner. That is why I am at lovefraud. LOL I firmly believe that at the time I picked up a few of my possessions and secretly fled from my home in the middle of the night was my LAST CHANCE to save my life, and thank GOD I took it!

Finding a Psychopath in our lives is very much like a diagnosis of “cancer.” Sometimes we don’t find a cancer until it is “too late” to cure it, or sometimes it is found early enough that if we treat it aggressively and use surgery we can cure it…..or sometimes it is a mild kind that is easily curable. Whatever the case, though, we CANNOT IGNORE IT and just hope it will go away by us taking vitamins and eating right as Steve Jobs tried to do for that critical 9 months.

Sometimes too, we have “symptoms” of psychopathy that WE don’t recognize as RED FLAGS but someone who is trained/educated in psychopathy would recognize immediately, so we go on thinking it is “nothing important” until even with the best treatment the “cancer” can’t be cured without a great deal of damage to our lives, even if it is not physically “fatal.”

My beloved step-father had signs of malignancy for several months before he was diagnosed. He “self diagnosed” these intermittent fevers as a “sinus infection”—and didn’t tell me about them. Upon finding out about his intermittent fevers, two things came to MY mind, one was CANCER, and the other was one of the several TICK BORNE FEVERS that are common around here. It turned out to be the cancer, but was a kind of cancer that there was not much chance of helping or extending his life on, though the doctors did convince him to TRY a round of chemo. His DELAY didn’t actually cost him his life…but it could have if it had been a different kind of cancer. The thing is though, he did not KNOW THE RED FLAGS of cancer or even the tick fevers. If it had been a tick fever he very well might have died before diagnosis….I came very close to doing that the “summer of chaos” when I was so emotionally beaten down, living in hiding, etc. that I didn’t pay much attention to my intermittent fevers until I could literally hardly stand up. This last couple of times I’ve had tick fever (am recovering from one now) I took ACTION at the first signs of RED FLAGS and went to the doctor.

Taking IMMEDIATE ACTION when we see the RED FLAGS associated with individuals who are high in psychopathic traits, who are demanding, dishonest, nasty tempered, have a record of many failed relationships, etc etc. should make us Safer than if we take a “wait and see” mode. When we are exposed to DISEASE of any kind, the longer we are around it the more chance it has to hurt us. So watch for the SIGNS and RED FLAGS of PSYCHOPATHY and get out the butcher knife or the nail clippers (whatever is an appropriate tool) and eliminate contagion from our lives!


I think the analogy is a good one of a cancer – taking FAST ACTION is so important. I saw the lies right away. They were blatant, in my face, ridiculous lies. I saw the lies, and I couldn’t understand it. It was a total WTF. I said “you’re lying to me”. I asked him “what’s wrong with you”. And, the kicker is, I brushed it aside, even with the red lights blinking.

I had no idea what it was.

I wanted the fantasy.

I spent 3 years wounding myself.
It would have been better to have only hurt myself for 3 days, or 3 weeks, or 3 months.
I hope it doesn’t take 3 years to recover.




Ox Drover


“recovery” is a LIFE-LONG LEARNING PROCESS….that of course doesn’t mean you don’t “get to where you feel well” sooner than the end of your life, LOL, but we will become DIFFERENT people than we were before the P-attack. Different can be STRONGER, BETTER, WISER, etc. or it can be a permanent victim status….we have to choose.

I heard on a program “The Doctors” the other day about a woman who was burned over 80% of her body and still she kept a positive attitude. I worked for several years in spinal cord and head-injury rehab and I have seen people with HORRIBLE PHYSICAL INJURIES who in spite of these limitations on their movements or abilities afterward still kept a POSITIVE ATTITUDE and lived good and fulfilling lives. I have also seen people with the “injury equivalent” of a “paper cut” whine and live in a “pity me” mode for the rest of their lives….it is OUR CHOICE….so WE CHOOSE how we REACT to what has happened to us.

the sisterhood

Here is a link I found to be fascinating. It goes along the same article that was posted on LF, “The Corporate Sociopath”.

I really don’t know what a sociopath is if Steve Jobs isn’t one. I would like to read his biography to see if I misinterpreted him in some way.

I do know that some of the greatest contributors to the world were, in fact, plagued by personality disorders. Picasso, Dali and Einstein come to mind. They were horrible to those closest to them. Can we ever know if they were sadistic in their intentions? I just know that I wouldn’t want to be connected to anyone with these toxic characteristics.

Maybe I just never understood the extreme love and infatuation with Steve Jobs. I don’t know. It should be an interesting read, to say the least.

Ox Drover


GREAT LINK, thank you!!!!

I think many if not most “great leaders” in industry, politics, and the military etc are VERY NARCISSISTIC….or psychopathic, and one of the reasons they get to the high levels that they achieve is that they are WILLING to walk over other people’s backs to get where they want to be.

In some people their psychopathy is funneled into “ordinary criminal” behavior but others like Elliot Sprintzer, John Edwards, etc. (and a few other politicians I could name) get to where they are and just sort of get brought down by exposure of some of their vile behaviors, but others are exposed and get by even then (Bill Clinton for one example). Even John Kennedy’s behavior which was known by those closest to him, but protected by the press from exposure, was “worshiped” by the public as some sort of “hero” when in fact, he exhibited many many psychopathic behaviors. Look at Teddy Kennedy his brother, who was exposed as a cheating spouse and even left a woman to die who might have been saved if he had focused on saving her instead of forming an ALIBI— and he was RE-elected for decades AFTER THAT….it astounds me how the public some how doesn’t care it seems if their “leaders” are moral or empathetic or caring people. Then, some guy will be “brought down” by some “minor” thing he gets caught doing. Doesn’t make sense to me at all.

I have finally decided I don’t know how or why people think like they do. I guess at how and why, but I really don’t know. I just know that we can only judge how a person by their PATTERN OF behavior, and then control how WE react to them.

I wouldn’t doubt that as “successful” as he was in business and what LITTLE I know about his personal/business practices and acts, that Jobs was HIGH in narcissistic thinking and/or traits and behaviors…but I haven’t given him much thought one way or the other really.


Good Points Oxy!

In regards to Stars post above…..It’s true….we never know how we will deal with some things unless we are facing them.
When I was diagnosed….I had just booted spath…and was alone with the kids, running the business and ‘figuring’ out life. When I got the C news, I ddn’t think any other option…..but to seek treatments and resume life.
None of my ‘illness’ progression made sense to the dr’s. How can a woman of 39 have 2 strokes a dissected carotid artery……THEN CANCER? WTF? Not what I expected…in my fairytale.
During my treatments was when life hit the shit fan….all around. And it got bad! I momentarily lost hope, but I knew I couldn’t….i wrestled with ALL of it.
Divorce, kids kidnapped, alienation from support, my family suppporting spath and alienating me……not being able to work….racking up the credit card debt to live….researching spath, researching my conditions, finding the best care to treat, travelling to treatments in another state, being stalked…..IT was a bit much.
I was alone (processing ALL of the emotional baggage)…..and I did it!
I did it all……looking back, I have no idea HOW I did it…..I guess, I just did!
I knew if I gave up….the kids would not have protection. I knew if I gave up…..spath would have gotten what he wanted….the right to gloat about “see, I told you all she was crazy”, as he continued to abuse my kids and with me dead…..nothing I could do!
I drove myself to airports, flew to unknown cities for my treatment, met unfamiliar dr’s and absorbed information……went back to unfamiliar hotels by myself….scared as hell……Will I survive?!?!! Flew home to an empty house, (ransacked each time I left for treatments)…..The fear became familiar.
You learn to ask for help…..from strangers. Ask for help at the airport, in hotels, rental car places, grocery stores, pumping gas, you take the liberty of parking in red zones and just ‘knowing’ your car won’t get towed, you don’t pay your bills as your’ accustomed and they don’t go to collections, you dont’ open mail for months and are surprised at how life doesn’t end due to not addressing things……..Generally, strangers are very willing to help a puking woman pump her gas. Strangers are more than willing to get you to the gate at the airport, carry your luggage and push your wheelchair and overlook parking in a red zone, you are amazed at the thought of needing groceries and calling the large grocery store and ‘placing an order’ and them having it ready and waiting outside the door for you…..paid for on the cc over the phone. You just ask. You become creative.
You crawl up stairs, taking 1/2 hour to get a bag of groceries up. You leave it outside the fridge for 2 hours because you don’t have the strength to stand up and put them away. You sleep on bathroom floors, you lay in the shower with the water running just to get a ‘bit’ clean. You definately forgo the makeup and the brush, none of that matters, you sleep in parking lots because your too tired to drive home, you find drive through pharmacies, you take/make calls when you have the energy, you figure out how to file a TPO over the phone because you just can’t get to the courts to file or testify for your own protection, you make every step count, because you know you won’t have the energy to take another step later. You pee in jam jars next to your bed, you keep water available, you keep your drapes open for the emotional value of sunshine, you don’t worry about the lawn dying due to lack of water and out of nowhere someone comes over and waters and mows it…….and if someone offers help….you learn to take it….it’s needed, whatever they offer!

I thought, IF I SURVIVE all this……and regain my life…..WILL I SURVIVE the abuse of spath?
I FOUGHT……and never gave up.
It can be done……and be done ALONE!
It wasn’t optimal……but it can be done!
I puked alone, I crawled to the kitchen alone, I drove myself sick over the mountain 1 hour each way to Dr’s alone……I layed in bed and cried….alone.
Strangers dropped off cases of water……an unknown neighbor did my mountain of laundry……my freezer was stocked with soups from strangers…….But, each step…..I had to take….ALONE.

We are capable of more than we think….it’s hard to imagine sitting in our good times…’s impossible to imagine actually…….we just go into action. We just “DO’.
We learn to taper our lives, expectations and willingness to ask for help to what we need at the time.

Anything we choose in life takes effort. If SJ chose surgery, that woulda taken effort. Homeopathics takes effort. I’m not sure he had a deathwish, and i’m not sure he chose the route he did because of ‘ego’…..I think, faced with this news, he chose what he believed in. Once we choose a route, you must proceed down that path.
Unfortunately, it didn’t work for him. I ‘get’ his choice.
Even if he chose to do ‘nothing’…..that is his choice.
I also ‘get’ that. It’s personal and very individual…..and it’s true….we can’t backseat drive someones choices.
We all have our reasons for each choice we make in life…..
Dying takes effort, doing nothing takes effort, ignoring it takes effort, fighting takes effort. There IS no easy escape or treatment.
We seem to think there is.

I chose conventional…..with a homeopathic kick. One of my biggest supporters was my homeopath, but he told me upfront….my ‘combinations’ were over his head. He was a big, renowned cancer researcher, a pathologist turned homeopath from what he’d seen and learned as a pathologist…….I beat it…..he passed away from Cancer 5 months later. Go figure? In the end, my Homeopath chose to go conventional treatment…..Go figure.!>!?!?! If his ‘ego’ was involved he woulda treated himself…..and with ‘what’ results…we won’t ever know….He died. He didn’t have a death wish…..but just like me….he chose a path….and the results were not as he’d wished.

I had another friend who walked my path with me…..he also had cancer…..fought like hell….researched the best treatments, had greuling surgerys and treatments…..GREULING……went to the ‘best’, had all the experimentals….they said they’d take him to the brink of death…..then bring him back….recovery was horrid for him….each time. He knew it…… The ‘easiest’ treatment was the one which ended up taking it ‘all’ out of him. It was a gamma brain surgery. But he never recovered and passed 2 months later. He called me from the airport…..he was laughing, said they want to do the brain surgery tomorrow….he told them NO….he was going Heliskiing in Canada. He could report for surgery the next week. He was checking off his bucket list. He’d never been Heliskiing and WAS going. The dr’s were AMAZED. He had a fabulous blu-bird trip. Came home Tues,…..had the ‘easy’ surgery on that Wed…..and went downhill quick from there. He fought…..without ego…..he passed too.

Pick a path…..and walk.

Just because we may choose to die or do nothing….doesn’t mean we’re gonna get our wish…..odder things have happened! 🙂
Just as….we choose to fight like hell to live…doesn’t mean it’s gonna happen.

We just never know what lays ahead for any of us……..

the sisterhood

Oxy-I didn’t mean to get away from your original point. I think that it is so important to take care of “the cancer” as soon as we detect it. Lord knows I was very fortunate that I only let my Spath cancer fester for a couple of years. It could have been so much worse for me and I know that. The scars are still there and I am putting “ointment” on them every day.
Thanks, again, for the great article


The lesson I take from this post is probably not the intended message of the post. I just buried a friend today. Not literally – I just went to her funeral. I’m very grateful for the opportunity to go because her death had not hit me, and it never would have. So now I’m thinking about what would happen to me if I had a life or death choice, and it came down to getting major surgery to save my life. With no family or close companions to care for me, would I do it? Would it matter? Do I value life that much? I have been giving this a lot of thought today.


This is exactly what I needed to read today… great post.

Ox Drover


GREAT POINTS! We all DO have to make our own choices…..and doing nothing about a cancer is a choice. The same with our psychopaths–I think we have all probably known someone who does NOTHING about his/her psychopathic partner. They STAY and endure the pain, the humiliation, the abuse–day after day, year after year, decade after decade.

Yesterday I watched TV in the day time which I normally do not do any and I saw a show where a woman’s 15 year old MASSIVELY OBESE daughter wanted to lose weight, and they brought the mother and father on TV and the mom was HUGE and she kept on saying she was on a “budget” and she couldn’t afford to buy healthy food for her daughter ONLY FAST FOOD….and so on, she gave every EXCUSE in the world why she couldn’t help her daughter eat healthy and well. Then she said (which I wanted to biatch slap her for) “No matter how my daughter looks on the outside, she’s a good person on the inside.” DUH!!!! The daughter actually though she was massively obese was very pretty and had a beautiful smile, and I thought the mother was INSULTING HER. Anyway, the DAUGHTER has even at 15 decided to make CHANGES and the mother may or may not go along with it but the daughter is going to change how she eats I think and I hope she sticks with it. Her aunt came on the show and was supportive.

That mother, though, KNOWS she is not eating well, or teaching her daughter or supporting her child, but she makes EXCUSES. I did the same thing….I made excuses for this or that behavior or for tolerating other people’s bad behavior but NOW I AM MAKING CHANGES IN MY LIFE. My choice.

Steve Jobs had a CHOICE, and he made it….then he changed his mind and made another choice….but the WAITING the 9 months most likely cost him his life. He stated in the book that he REGRETTED the first choice and wished he had had the surgery when he FIRST had the chance.

Sure,, he had a CHOICE and he made a choice that he LATER WISHED HE HAD NOT MADE….and I made choices that I wished later I had NOT made the one I did, but sometimes we can’t go back and get a DO OVER…the choice is a final one. A fatal one.

EB you CHOSE to fight even when that fight was ALONE and HARD….and I admire you so much for accomplishing what you have done.



Yes, it’s all a choice, isn’t it?
Chosing to get rid of the cancer.
Chosing to pamper yourself.
Chosing to have a positive outlook.
Chosing to not revert to the spath and the pain he caused.
I am so flipping glad that that asshole has not been able to get through to me and that every day I am away from him I’m healing, I feel better, he can’t destroy me and tear me down.

It’s all a choice.

EB, you’re one to admire. Thank you for sharing your story.



Yes….it’s all a choice. Creating space and distance from our toxicities….(spaths) is one of the most healthiest choices, which bear continual gifts of growth for us.

Find your ADAMANT and ‘know’ it!

Stay safe and keep walking forward!


your story inspires me. I need it today, since I’m shoveling gravel and my body is sore from doing it yesterday. When I compare that to what you did, it pales. I can do it.

Oxy, the woman on tv WANTS her daughter to be fat.
I’m learning a thing or two about parents. There are many parents who don’t want their children to be or do better than they did. Mine are that way.

I had a friend from high school who became a toothless meth whore. She had 4 kids and all were taken from her. But her 16 year old daughter is living with her again. Except in the summertime, when she lives with her 43 year old (semi-retarded) pervert boyfriend, who still lives with HIS mother.

the 16-year old girl is going down the same (or worse) road as her mother. But I think that my “friend” is so angry and disillusioned about where her life took her (she was a beautiful model at age 16), that she wants to see her daughter live the same way. Not sure if it’s conscious or unconscious but I can see that she has not expressed concern about her daughter’s choices.

My own parents, I can see, made the effort to sabotage their kids. Seeding fear and anxiety, corrupting our emotional reactions and not teaching us self-sufficiency or self-esteem, were all ways to sabotage our successes.

Lots of parents are jealous of their children and they do evil things to take away the gift of innocence.


We just have to develop the ‘geterdone’ attitude!
It truely IS surprising just how much we can do……and things that we relied on others to do in our lives.
We are WAY MORE self sufficient than we think!

When your done shoveling gravel……take a hot bath, reward your body and let your mind reward your heart…..because you GOTERDONE!

I bet you NEVER thought you’d be pouring concrete…..and as not glamorous as that job is/was……were you NOT proud of yourself for being able to figure out how to do this yourself?

There is a reward in self sufficiency…..and we can build on that!

I just changed out the hydrolics on my hatch…..with the Jr’s holding up the hatch….it took all of 5 minutes…$80 bucks and a trip to the auto parts store. I’ve figured out how to ‘operate’ on a snowblower during a storm… order not to be snowed in…..I’ve fixed holes in walls, installed a gas stove, changed my oil…….and gave myself a mani/pedi all while I had a clay facemask on……I got grease under my nails and pinched my fingers in the wood splitter……AND WE CAN BE DAMN PROUD OF OURSELVES TO DO ALL OF IT!!!!!
It’s empowering……GOOD FOR YOU SKYLAR!



OH…..and FUCK ALL OF THOSE….who say we can’t!!!!


You are right about the mom wanting her kid to be fat. I have a cousin the same way. Her daughter was a wee delicate thing but mom gave her lots of approval for “being a good eater” and is angry (actually threatened to sue the school) b/c her daughter’s classmates now make fun of her dqaughter and call her fat b/c “size should not matter when you are a kid.” This is NOT a kid who’s is well nourished, this is an 8 yr old girl who is now 50 lbs overweight, can’t bend over, or play field games. Fat kids are used as proof that it’s the genes, not the behavior and validates MOM AT THE HEALTH AND EXPENSE OF THE CHILD. It’s just another form of child abuse and pisses me off b/c if I eat choc cake and gain 10 lbs, well I did it to myself. But for a parent to stuff their child like that and deprive them of friends, security, self esteem…. GRRRRRRRRRRRR.

ps last I bought black beans and brown rice, they were way cheaper than Micky D’s, so the claim she can’t afford to feed her child properly is BS. But you all knew that. 🙂

Ox Drover


Funny how many people have NO IDEA how to cook a meal…I laughed at that car ad here a while back, shows a post college age guy who is complaining because his mom didn’t cook dinner for him and he thought went to bed, and he said “but I know how to cook dinner” (then he pops a precooked meal into the microwave)

Funny thing, I have cooked from SCRATCH and raised most of the food I prepared, butchered the meat and then cooked it…and it is a fact today that most people in the US would starve with a cow and a knife both handy….and the TV “shows” that a “FAMILY DINNER” comes from KFC instead of McDonald’s LOL I saw an ad yesterday for a “home cooked” breakfast of sweet rolls with sugar on top OUT OF A CAN, OF COURSE…DUH!!! All evening long if you look at TV you see almost nothing but FOOD ADS for FAST FOODS, fried foods,, super sized foods, greasy foods, high carb foods, etc. EXPENSIVE FOODS.

I realize that it is not realistic to expect everyone to grow their own veggies and meat, butcher it and then cook it, and milk a cow or goat for their milk, etc., but to cook BASIC meals with fruits and veggies for a BALANCED diet is actually LESS EXPENSIVE than eating out of a pre-cooked box or can and of course cheaper than McDonald’s to say nothing of more healthy. Even raising my own, I ate too much salt and too many calories, now I’ve had to correct that!


You got it Oxy!
Sometimes when I think I whine too much, God reminds me that I was given gifts in spite of a less than ideal childhood. As the responsible one in my family, I cooked. Am so proud of that skill now. You are right, it’s amazing how dependent people are on Costco/Sam’s Club prepared foods. FULL of preservatives, salt, sugar, and fat. I don’t think most people know what GOOD food actually tastes like.



The same with me. I know how you feel.


Louise, I’ve been waiting to see you on here. (Just a slight hijack). I finally saw the Human Centipede II. I won’t spoil it for you but it’s so disgusting that a few people threw up in the theater. Must see! I still like the first one better. I love the evil doctor.


Bless you EB – you are a true inspiration.


I gotter half-done. baby steps for me.



Thanks for your note. It really is a choice. I know that.
It doesn’t make the choice easy.

What a spiral.

I felt like shit the last few days, really in the dumps because it’s been like six weeks NC. There was truly NO CONTACT, but I have not kicked him out of my head. How do I do that?

This afternoon, I figured out that my spath had been stalking me on line. I instantly felt better. And now, I am regretful for feeling better. I should instead be indifferent, and I’m not.




Excellent article oxy. Pretty visceral analogy, but I think it really captures the nature of the involvement. To describe sociopaths as a “cancer” is very apt.



Great analogy! Sorry, I had picked up on more of the medical aspect of it earlier. I knew what you were trying to portray with this…good job.



They threw up?? Wow! I had read somewhere that it was so bad that people were walking out. For whatever reason, I don’t have that type of stomach…I wouldn’t throw up and I wouldn’t walk out either. I have to see these two movies. I am going to have to rent both of them as #2 is not showing in my city. Thanks for the feedback! 🙂


Well, (louise), the midnight crowd I was there with laughed through the whole thing. We applauded when he finally got the “centipede” assembled. But it was pretty gory and disgusting. The first one wasn’t quite so gory. We regarded it as a comedy because it is so farfetched that it could never happen. There were even people there who dressed up in bandages just for the movie. We waited in the same line as the Rocky Horror folks, who were all dressed up. We were standing outside in the cold waiting to get in. The staff member (also dressed in some ridiculous costume that involved a thong and full body tattoos) came out and let the Rocky Horror people in first. He said, “Who is here for the drag show?” And all the RH people went in. Then he said, “Who is here for ass-to-mouth?” All the Human Centipede people cheered and laughed. But they still did not let us in right away. So we all talked about “joining together” LOL and barging in. We sang songs from RH while we were waiting. I’m just giving you an idea as to the kind of crowd we were and the ambience we were creating. We didn’t take the film seriously. We were laughing and applauding through the whole thing, especially when everyone in the centipede got a shot of ex-lax. Anyone who goes to a midnight showing of a film is not there to take it seriously.

Ox Drover

Wow, Star! That must have been SOME CROWD….~



Haha…I love it!! Sounded like so much fun! You know…I am also that type of person with horror films…a lot of times I laugh because they are just so far fetched it could never happen…EXACTLY! You literally took the words out of my mouth. Thanks for the update! Take care!


Hi Guys ~ I have decided to not take anything seriously today and seeing you are laughing and telling horror show stories this seems like to be a good place for my story.

An extremely modest man was in the hospital for a series of tests, the last of which had left his bodily systems extremely upset.

Upon making several false alarm trips to the bathroom, he decided the latest episode was another and stayed put. He suddenly filled his bed with diarrhea and was embarrassed beyond his ability to remain rational.

In a complete loss of composure he jumped out of bed, gathered the bed sheets, and threw them out the hospital window.

A drunk was walking by the hospital when the sheets landed on him. He started yelling, cursing, and swinging his arms violently trying to get the unknown things off, and ended up with the soiled sheets in a tangled pile at his feet.

As the drunk stood there, unsteady on his feet, just staring down at the sheets, a hospital security guard who had watched the whole incident, walked up and asked, “What the heck is going on here?”

The drunk, still staring down replied: “I think I just beat the shit out of a ghost.”

Ox Drover

MILO!!!!! That is so funny!!!! I belly laughed! How awful!!! LOL ROTFLMAO Thanks for the laugh, that’s a great joke! Sounds like some of the jokes my kids liked at about age 10 or so. (that’s the best kind!)




I know Oxy – I spend way too much time with a 10 year old.

When Grand was about 7 or 8, he was back in the pastures working with the some of the young Amish guys. They were catching the goats and giving them medication for runny bowels. The next day, I had to give the medication and asked Grand to help catch and hold the young goats.

I saw one that obviously needed it and said to Grand “Grab that one, he has “poopies” all over his butt.” Grand replied, “GRAN – us GUYS call it the shits.” I thought I was going to die laughing. Boy, did I chew out some red faced Amish guys.


Milo, I LOL’d on that one. And now you’re ready to go see The Human Centipede. It involves lots of diarrhea.


Louise, I only have a very few friends who enjoy THC. So I always goof around with them. I tell them that if they piss me off, they’re going in the middle. (you have to see the first movie to understand that one). LOL


This metaphor is quite a stretch, isn’t it?

Jobs himself had many sides and was not a nice person. I have wondered if he had the brain of a psychopath, in the same way that James Fallon does.



Hey, I know your last post was directed at EB, but I wanted to respond as you sound so sad and disappointed.

It is TOTALLY normal to have repeated thoughts of our abusers. My bit of wisdom is to be gentle with yourself and keep giving yourself some slack for these thoughts. When you can, gently lead yourself away from them, if they are upsetting. If they lead you to an insight, well that’s good, right?

Having thoughts about someone who caused you so much humiliation, shock, and grief seems to me to be kind of like keeping track of a giant saber-tooth tiger that tried to kill you. It’s the brains way of protecting us. I don’t know if this is right, but it eventually has come to feel that way for me.

I am almost 5 years out from an experience with a spath. I still think of him every single day. I don’t feel bad because of it (generally). I don’t miss him, want him, or think he is something special that got away. When I think of him it is a pretty neutral experience. BUT just the fact of my thinking of him, after all this time, gives me the sense that what happened with him, and my understanding of what a psychopath is, is VERY important for my growth and my survival.

Otherwise my mind would not have assigned him this place in my mental inventory.

Your experience will become neutralized too, someday. So just go easy on yourself and process your ideas and thoughts. Don’t get too caught up in how you should be. Just survive the pain, keep loving yourself however you can, and let the healing continue.

Slim one



Another great medical analogy. I was a lucky one. I got the diagnosis and I cut out the disease after 10 months. And even so, my most recent brush with ‘soul’ death, and awakening to the ‘habits’ that lead to my ‘disease’ have taken A LOT of time to come to terms with.

As with cancer, sometimes we just get it. No smoking, no drugs, no toxic foods. But we get cancer anyway. Same with running into a spath. But sometimes it is our health habits that contribute. For me that was the case, and I had run-ins multiple times, with cancerpaths!

It took time to sort through my false beliefs, and self-destructive behaviors. But certainly cutting out the tumor, going NO contact, was critical to starting the healing process.

I have been away do to computer issues. Nice to be back and reading and learning.

xo, Slim



“They’re going in the middle”…I can only imagine what that means…haha!


Ox Drover: Hey!! There is nothing wrong with college age kids still having mom cook the meals! That doesn’t make me a baby! I mean those kids! It doesn’t make them babies! 😛

I think most kids are afraid to fail. Nobody in my college cooks because they know it will be horrible. They don’t even try because of this. They are afraid to experiment and fail, so they don’t even try. The same with their school work. They’d rather take a zero on a hard assignments than try and fail at it. It’s like most kids only try something when they know they will succeed on their first attempt. Sad stuff. My mom made it a point to teach me how to cook.

You guys also better stop talking bad about fast food! *shakes fists* Fast food is a sign of a fantastic life, wealth and soul. I’d marry fast food if it was a lady. We’d have little chicken nugget babies named Gergory and Melinda. The house would be filled with grease, but we’d get by, as all couples do. Wait a second, this post doesn’t make any sense at all. Sorry! ^_^

Send this to a friend