Lovefraud invites you to complete a survey about your experience with a sociopath/psychopath/narcissist in order to help professionals diagnose this disorder properly.
Two days ago, the American Psychiatric Association released a draft of the fifth edition its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM 5). This book is the standard classification of mental disorders used by mental health and other professionals. The revision has been underway for a decade.
A work group of 11 doctors and psychologists focused on the section about personality and personality disorders. They have recommended significant changes to the description of antisocial personality disorder, which is also referred to as sociopathy and psychopathy. In fact, one of the suggestions is to change the name of the personality disorder to “antisocial/psychopathic type.”
The new description of the disorder is much closer to what most of us at Lovefraud have experienced. You can read the description here:
Antisocial/Psychopathic Type
The American Psychiatric Association has invited public comment on the draft of DSM 5, and Lovefraud is taking the doctors up on their invitation. We thought the best way to do it would be to survey our readers, asking you how well the proposed description of antisocial/psychopathic type matches your experience with one (or more) of these individuals.
Please take the survey. This is serious, so be thoughtful and accurate in your responses. It will probably take you about 15 minutes, so please start it when you are sure you have time to complete it.
The survey will be open until March 3, 2010. After that, we will tabulate and analyze the data. We will prepare a report of the findings for the American Psychiatric Association. The results will also be published on Lovefraud.
Go to the survey:
banana
I completed the survey.
A bit of triggering.
I chose Antisocial/Psychopathic Type, because when I do tell people my ex is a spath they think I am crazy. Most people who know what one is equate them to serial killers.
Also, Antisocial personality doesn’t sound “dangerous” enough, and most of us here would agree that these people ARE dangerous in that they can completely ruin the lives of multiple people. Not that we won’t be whole again one day, but for a moment in time we are decimated in some way or another.
one/joy_step_at_a_time
banana: maybe we should carry little cards around with us that list the traits….I know i could figure out how to casually slip ‘spath’ in to most conversations. snort…..
Ox Drover
Dear EB,
Yea, got all the old receipts and records, they have come in very handy for tax reasons many times, and am glad that I didn’t thow away all P-son’s letters or the ones we found in my egg donor’s home after the TH-P was arrested.
These are worth their weight x 10 in gold!
After my husband’s death two “friends” came forward and tried to say my husband owed them $X, which I KNEW was not the case. I just told one of these friends to go to heck, but the other one actually took me to small claims court, and I had the Canceled CHECKS to prove he was not owed one centavo. CASE CLOSED.
Then, on the way out of the court house, AFTER the judges verdict, he followed me and said “Oxy, let’s have a cup of coffee and talk about this” and I replied, as I left, “the judge did all the talking necessary, and if you come on my place again I’ll have you arrested.” He had actually come to my house when I was not home and taken things out of my barn that he thought were “his.” Even before the trial, I had locked the gate to keep him out even when I was home, which at that time I didn’t usually do and he called me once and was bemoaning the fact he drove up and couldn’t get in. I told him, “XXX I have told you to ALWAYS call before you come, someone got into my barn and did x,y,z, so now I lock the gate.” He thought a minute and then said, sort of confused sounding “I guess that was me did that.” (He had dumped the disassembled parts of a $6,000 aircraft engine out of a box in order to get the cardboard box! causing a mess!) Then you can imagine what I told him about that! LOL
This guy wasn’t a P, he was just a first class JERK, but I no longer have to deal with him—and he is most likely genuinely hurt that I was offended that he filed small claims on me. LOL
I’m just glad the judge got it! I’m also glad I was OCD about saving every scrap of paper filed in boxes in the attic of the barn in such a way I can find them within a few minutes if I need to. Alll receipts for business purchases, tax papers, bank, phone and utility receipts….I can even tell you how many kilowatt hours of electricity I used in 1990!
I did learn that habit from my CPA egg donor though, she has them back to the first check she ever wrote.
You never know what documentation you may need and it really doesn’t take up that much space. Even the boxes of business documents I have dont’ take up a lot of space.
duped
The survey was pretty easy for me to answer, especially with boxes that allowed a little explanation. My problem was with the question: Did the individual express more anger than most of the people you know? No answer box for explanation…but if there was one, this is what I’d say.
He is rather smart, cunning and frequently in control of himself. He knows that outward displays of anger are a sign of weakness and will reduce his influence, ultimately, over those he prefers to manipulate and control with pity and empathy; the latter far more effective and covert on the strong, able women he prefers to exploit. When all else failed, he’d use anger outbursts…but I was under the impression that very few of those were out of a loss of self control.
It is for these reasons that I think he does fit this personality type more than Borderline or BiPolar…or any of the other disorders that can display similar behaviors. I think he knew exactly what he was doing, most of the time! None of it by accident or due to strong emotional responses to anything.
duped
Also…
I can tell you that, while I was with him, I displayed more anger than the average person I know. And he’d use that to his advantage to make ME seem like the person who was being abusive and out of control. He also used it to tap into my guilt so he could further exploit me!
geminigirl
Yes I completed the survey, but in the box where it says “when did you notice ” this or that pesonality disorder, it only goes up to one year. There is no space to put , say,”I noticed her behaviour change after the age of 16,” for example. Love, Gem.
Genevieve79
I just completed the survey for a few people lol (hope they don’t think I’m the psycho one haha!) and I was really shocked to tick extremely in every box for an abusive family member I have who I am now personally done with after years of crap from her. I always thought she had antisocial traits but geez not that much, she’s ended up the worst out of the lot! Accurately so though too, she ticked every box in the extreme sense. What an eye opener!
I think naming it antisocial personality ‘type’ is a little too wishy washy, and makes it sound like an illness when it frankly isn’t – they know what they’re doing. On the other hand I don’t advocate the old terms sociopath and psychopath either as they cause people to think we are the delusional ones when we describe those who have harmed us in that way. The general public associates those terms with the likes of Hitler, Manson, Bundy etc not realising that most are never going to be as visible as they were. Spath and Ppath are too sensationalist now I think, makes it harder for us to get people to understand that our experiences are real and we’re not being dramatic.
So I voted for the simple no bones “Antisocial Personality Disorder” because that’s what they are – antisocial and personality disordered.
I pray that teh new DSM really works for everyone and keeps more people safe from these entities, as I actually don’t see them as human anymore, more like demons in human form. Seriously! Sounds awful I know but empathy makes us human and alive – how can anyone have a relationship without empathy?
If evil exists I believe it’s the antisocials, truly. Wolves in sheeps clothing and all that…..
ThePeregrine
I completed the survey, but I have concerns about the nature of the survey and the nature of the intended changes in the DSM.
I think there are common traits that each of us saw in the people we identify as sociopaths, but there are also wild variations on a big spectrum of human behavior. Some of our tormentors were violent, most were manipulative, most lack empathy. Mine has traits that are described by the current DSM definitions for narcissistic personality disorder, histrionic personality disorder and borderline personality disorder (not so much antisocial personality disorder, but it overlaps a bit with borderline traits). But she doesn’t fit neatly into a category, because most human behavior is nuanced and she has adopted and customized her strategies to suit her immediate needs and desires.
I think we understand less about these people when we paint them with a broad brush. And I think we are in actual danger when we fail to understand the nature of their disorder, so I’m very wary about a “rubber stamp” approach. I know that when we talk specifically about what these people DO, patterns emerge that improve our shared understanding. Labels are extremely limited in their benefit, though they do give us a kind of virtual target for our anger and dismay.
I don’t have a big problem with either the survey or the DSM-V. I just want to clarify that changing the labels won’t accomplish much. If you’ve really been involved with a sociopath, you probably know that already.
Frank Lee Speaking
Excellent. Finally they ask the victims for their input. Delighted to see this real step forward. Although I wish they would of included a field to post in all the idiosyncratic things that we victims notice in sociopaths which I think in many ways is the best marker as the AMA is still too caught up in the notion that Sociopaths are criminals.
Sociopath/Psychopath Common Traits
1. Waking up in a Pool of Sweat
2. Severe Migraines During Full Moons and Beginning of Menstrual Cycles
3. Needing at Most 4-5 Hours Sleep a Night
4. Inconsistent Timelines and Missing Past Histories
5. Eyes Dead and Lifeless/then Racing Frantically from Side-to-Side When Pulling off a Scam. No “Crows Feet” on females due to smiling with their teeth and not their eyes.
6. Falls Asleep and Wakes Up Instantly
7. Constantly Trying to Correct Others’ Opinions (arrogant pseudo-skeptic/debunker)
8. Narcissism/Boastful/Self Pity/”Why Me!” Sob Stories.
9. Righteous Indignation/Condescending/Always Right-Never Wrong
10. Crocodile Tears and Unconvincing Emotional Responses, Superficial Laughter
11. Extreme and Obvious Flattery – Emulating/”Brown Nosing”/Sycophant
12. Idealisation Followed by Cold Rejection/Invented Persona to Manipulate Others
13. Sexual Promiscuity/Bi Sexuality/One Night Stands
14. History of Brief or Failed Relationships Ending Badly
15. Moving from State to State or Region Under Suspicious or Vague Circumstances
16. Claims to be the Only Person who Really Relates to You
17. Obsessed with the Latest Pharmaceuticals/Hypochondriac
18. Has No Real Creative Talent (can only copy other styles – can’t innovate/be original)
19. Buys into Either Secular and Non-Secular Belief Systems to Act Superior/Enlightened
20. Gifts Designed to “Buy You” or to Mould You in a Certain Way (their taste in clothes, pop psychology books)
21. Lack of Emotional Depth in Terms of Others’ Problems/Hurt/Cheap Apology at Most
22. Little or No Interest in Parenting (even if they have children while claiming to adore them)
23. Easily Bored
24. Becomes Obsessed with Hobby or Causes/Individuals and then Loses Interest Instantly
25. Feels they are Entitled to the Best of Everything/Lights Cigarette without Asking if it is OK to Smoke.
26. Exploits Parents, the Elderly or Handicapped (money, free rent, getting into wills)
27. Defends Orthodoxy Based on Reading a Book/Discovery Channel/Penn and Teller
28. Claims to Have a Special Relationship with God or Faking Being Religious
29. Either Extreme Atheist or “Holy Roller”
30. Highly Unreliable/Broken Promises/Nothing is Ever their Fault
31. Wants to Know Your Every Move/Life Story – While their Own is Elusive or Vague
32. High Testosterone (large clitoris/sexually aggressive/”pervy” pronounced Adam’s Apple in Females)
33. Parasitic Lifestyle/Slacker/Highly Strung “Genius”/Middle Aged Student
Genevieve79
Very good points Peregrine.
I did find the questions a little restrictive as they don’t all have the same traits. Out of those I took the survey about, only one of them ticked all traits at the extreme level but was the one who experiences the highest anxiety levels too – so she truly ticked all the boxes for antisocial personality but unlike the ‘typical’ antisocial she also had high levels of anxiety. Just shows that one size doesn’t always fit all but it I think it does help to have a general loose term for a group of behaviours perhaps that are mostly present in varying degrees, not just for targets to focus anger on, but for the psychological profession as a whole. This would be where psychiatrist’s scoring questionnaires come in – a person might be antisocial but are in a different place on the scale. Dr Michael Stone’s ‘Most Evil’ Scale is an excellent example of the variation you speak of Peregrine. xx