Lovefraud invites you to complete a survey about your experience with a sociopath/psychopath/narcissist in order to help professionals diagnose this disorder properly.
Two days ago, the American Psychiatric Association released a draft of the fifth edition its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM 5). This book is the standard classification of mental disorders used by mental health and other professionals. The revision has been underway for a decade.
A work group of 11 doctors and psychologists focused on the section about personality and personality disorders. They have recommended significant changes to the description of antisocial personality disorder, which is also referred to as sociopathy and psychopathy. In fact, one of the suggestions is to change the name of the personality disorder to “antisocial/psychopathic type.”
The new description of the disorder is much closer to what most of us at Lovefraud have experienced. You can read the description here:
Antisocial/Psychopathic Type
The American Psychiatric Association has invited public comment on the draft of DSM 5, and Lovefraud is taking the doctors up on their invitation. We thought the best way to do it would be to survey our readers, asking you how well the proposed description of antisocial/psychopathic type matches your experience with one (or more) of these individuals.
Please take the survey. This is serious, so be thoughtful and accurate in your responses. It will probably take you about 15 minutes, so please start it when you are sure you have time to complete it.
The survey will be open until March 3, 2010. After that, we will tabulate and analyze the data. We will prepare a report of the findings for the American Psychiatric Association. The results will also be published on Lovefraud.
Go to the survey:
Oh I think that is fantastic Kathleen. If my ED could be diagnosed by the tangible damage she does and has done (there is evidence, records)to peoples lives she would be totally sprung. there are ‘odd’ people, angry people, with all sorts of mental health issues, but cutting a swathe of devastation in others lives continually, I believe is the territory of the Psychopath.
You know, I was very confused the first time I heard/read the term antisocial years and years ago.
I thought it referred to introverted people, those who preferred solitude rather than social situations. Meaning, I thought I was an antisocial! Oh man, was I so confused and even a bit frightened by the idea I might be antisocial.
Now, I know the difference. Still an introvert who needs quiet time to recharge my batteries but I’m no longer shy, self conscious as before and thoroughly enjoy mingling with the masses. On occasion, not every day. That would deplete my energy reserves to the max, leaving me a worn out old rag of a person.
Maybe we should just call them nihilists. True, they appear to be gregarious animals on introduction, utilizing whatever persona they created to deceive their victims but in actuality…they hate all life, everything of beauty and substance and meaning.
They are the purveyors of hate and fear and destruction aka nihilists.
Just a thought…
hello all
BEFORE THE SOCIOPATH I THOUGHT THE TERM “ANTISOCIAL ” WAS WHAT SARAH SAYS ABOVE. SOME WHO DOESN’T LIKE TO BE AROUND PEOPLE. SOMEONE SHY ETC. AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT THE AVERAGE PERSON WOULD THINK…………. ITS TOO NICE A WORD FOR WHAT THEY ARE.
I THINK THE SCARY WORD “SOCIOPATH.” IS JUST FINE. BECAUSE THEY ARE TRUE EVIL……….. LETS NO SUGAR COAT IT.
I agree with you all, “antisocial” does sound like a hermit. I myself have referenced people as “anti-social” meaning doesn’t want to associate with others much.
Kathleen, I agree with you that were there is a predator, there has to be a victim or victim-s, however, the person doing the assessing may not have access to a history of serial victimization. With a convict, who is locked up and has been convicted of multiple crimes you would have that “history” of someone taking advantage of someone else, but not necessarily any history of multiple emotional or financial abuses of a spouse. And, keep inmind that many spouses who report their SO for physical abuse, eventually reconcile with them and drop the charges. Though in some areas the police have prosecuted anyway.
It is true that 99.9% of ps do have a long history of abuse and repeat abuse of all kinds, but it doesn’t always show up to the person who is testing or evaluating them.
Back in “the old days” when I took over a case load of chronically mentally ill, and frankly I think many of them had plenty of AXIS II (cluster B) traits as well as depression and bi-polar, I seldom got an accurate “history” except by talking to these people for quite some time over a period of many months. And, I think we all know how “normal” a P can sound if there is no one around to call them a liar and have proof of it. Everyone of us here (by virtue of the fact we are here) has been fooled pretty good for quite some period of time by a P or Ps—so we know it can be done, even in the most intimate of relationships. Boy can they twist “history”—-and project all problems on to others. So getting an accurate history is difficult especially with a P.
Interestingly enough, my P-son marked down on some of his paper work that he had a BS in computer sciences, and that is an easy one to “disprove.” He dropped out of high school and got a GED in jail, he has never been out of jail longer than 5 months since he was 17 so WHEN would he have gotten this BS in Computer science? He didn’t get it prison because he has consistently refused college courses even though my egg donor offered to pay for them. He hasn’t stayed out of solitary long enough to have completed any course work, he even got tossed out of welding class the day before the test when he was first arrested for his first adult felony and did 2 years.
He told one of his convict buddies that the crime he was in for was for shooting a man who had killed his wife in revenge for a drug deal gone wrong—-LOL Unless he got married and I didn’t know about it when he was 17 he’s never had a wife. LOL He did get a 13 year old preg when he was 17 however, and I have no doubt it was deliberate. I’m glad, frankly, that that child was never born. The one thing I am GLAD of is that I have no grandchildren that are biological offspring. There was a time when that was my greatest desire and prayer, but I am glad that God said “No” to that prayer, sometimes a “No” is the best answer to a prayer.
Taking my P son out of the gene pool is a good thing, I wish more of them were out of the pool, pour in the chlorine!
Hi All:
Because the book “The Sociapath Next Door” by Martha Stout describes the person I was involved with so so perfectly, I have come to see “sociopath” as the most appropriate word for this disorder. I agree with other posters that “antisocial” is not really accurate- certainly not with the person I knew who was constantly charming and manipulating people. Another good descriptive term which was not listed on the survey is “conscienceless” or “without conscience”.
JaneSmith, I like where you’re going with the nihilists. Sort of like my masters of chaos. Or the people of the lie. Or the dark angels of Rilke.
I mused over “antisocial” too. Anti also “means the opposite of.” I was thinking about people who cannot do connectivity of any sort except vampiric sucking, can’t trust, can’t feel empathy, can’t do mutuality, can’t do peer relations, and even hate themselves. Probably because themselves is a big void in which a tiny frightened child sits in the dark, refusing to forgive anyone and blasting out sad, bad, angry, hurt, unloved and unlovable vibes like a radio tower. Even while the shiny Teflon shell is being charming and attentive.
I think antisocial means against the social too. But because the psychopath doesn’t do social but recognizes the social world offers the best chance to survive and thrive. Like an alien nation arriving to mine the earth for rare minerals, they mine society for whatever they want. Because society is a collaborative effort, and psychopaths only take, they leave trails of destruction. No, wakes of destruction that ripple out in our interconnected world, stolen resources taxing community stability. They are like termites in a wooden house.
A friend of mine once said to me that when stock or options traders gamble with ten-to-one leverage (serially borrowing money on the value of a stock and then reinvesting it, ten times), they win big when they win. If they lose, the cost is usually born by the stockholders or the public. That is a sociopath’s game. Head’s I win; tails you lose.
I want, somehow, for the diagnostic criteria to contextualize this in terms of personal and community destruction. If there is a reasonable assumption of sociopathic tendencies, I want it assumed that they are liars. That any evaluation must be based on environmental information — such as the statements of former associates — as well as anything they might say.
I suppose this is a bad idea, that it violates some Constitutional right. Or that they could easily jack that system by making up even worse stories than everyone else. But everyone else wouldn’t have such a lot of bad references or emotionally distraught people in their past.
This is just a fairy tale I’m dreaming up, right? I go back to wishing there were something like a credit bureau for character. That people could write testimonials, like they do on LinkedIn. Good and bad. Anonymous if they want. Just so I could have looked up that little jerk, and known. I still can’t believe his last girlfriend didn’t warn me, but she was suffering from a panic disorder and was too stoned on Xanax all the time.
Another way for them to hide their tracks. Suicide is good. The next best thing is something like long-term panic disorder. So they don’t talk, and even if they do, who’d believe them? “I just don’t understand what happened to her,” he used to say. “She was so much fun when I met her.”
Oh well…
I always dreamt of renting a big signage board along the exressway near his exit …his picture, his name in big blinking lights….a photo of the judgement against him… saying… warning women/men he lies, he cheats, he steals… and he is just one of many out there… Educate yourself before you become the next victim…go to Lovefraud.com! He would probably drive by and just see his face and name in big blinking lights and love it!!!!!!
I agree that diagnosis should include statements from people who have been wronged by them – after all they are pathological liars so anything they say is worthless and cannot be trusted.
I think by making this a ‘type’ there is a gradual movement away from the bias towards formal diagnosis – that’s my feeling anyway. I think having a listing of affects and behaviours in this way allows targets to run through it and say ‘this person has only two that don’t apply so there’s a high chance they WOULD be diagnosed as this type’. Let’s face it – the only way they will go for formal diagnosis is if they are forced to … they see nothing wrong with what they do, so a listing for targets is a great thing.
I would also like reference made to the destruction they cause via relationships, whether romantic or family based. There seems to be absolutely no mention of this at all. Perhaps a corresponding listing of victim experiences would be useful too – ie ‘Are you… doubting yourself, depressed, contemplating suicide, getting confused about history because the P tells you so?’
Just a dream just a dream. I made two short videos on psychopathy last night – just my general understandings at this point about symptoms and signs. I haven’t posted them yet and may redo them, but it was a brave first move lol
As long as we are dreaming, if they are diagnosed, they have to go live on Devil’s island! Let them prey on each other, biggest meanest P wins!
lol @....... Oxy – I think they should all live together too! That way they leave us normal folk alone 🙂