By | May 4, 2009 128 Comments

The first step in recovering from a sociopath: Staying alive

Lovefraud recently received the following e-mail from a reader who we’ll call “Lillian.”

Yes. It happened to me. It took him six years but he left. He left me holding two mortgages in both our names. He left me once I ran out of cash. He left me when I got laid off. I am almost 50 years old and I have nothing. I haven’t heard from him in over a year. He encouraged me to buy a bigger, more expensive house than I would have on my own and came up with half the down. He moved in. Wouldn’t pay anything. Got us a joint account and credit card. I worked. He didn’t even buy groceries. He bought himself a boat after three years of hell as I got angrier and angrier because he just lay on the couch. Then he sailed to Mexico and didn’t come back. His rich widow of a prominent heart surgeon called me one day. He had told her he owned property up here and that he had ended a relationship—which he hadn’t. He got really angry then and cleaned out the joint account of my funds, of course, since there was never any joint about it. He lives in Mexico on his boat and has a house in Oakland. She feels like Cinderella right now and thinks I am the evil stepsister.

I had $400K in cash. No revolving debt. Two retirement accounts and supported my husband and kids. Well fast forward. I have no cash. No retirement accounts. $70K in revolving debt and no job. I am ruined. I am so traumatized and messed up that I can’t function. I just cry. I reach out and no one is there. I am extremely isolated. I want to die. He is living in Mexico and suing me for half the house. He isn’t done with me yet. And I am just two months away from living in a tent. No one cares. No one understands. Everyone thinks that somehow I either deserve this and or it’s my fault. I am done for. I don’t know that I can be helped even if I knew someone who could help me. That’s the story. Sad but true. I wish I were dead.

After a devastating encounter with a sociopath, the most important thing we have to do is stay alive.

We may have lost our money, our homes, our jobs, our health, our self-esteem, our hopes and our dreams, but we cannot lose our selves.

This is basic, but crucial. We cannot die.

Not everyone succeeds at this essential task. Not everyone is able to continue living in the face of monstrous personal betrayal. In these cases, the sociopath truly wins. Dr. Leedom calls it “murder by suicide.”

There is an old adage, “Where there’s life, there’s hope.” When dealing with the aftermath of a sociopath, this is the truth. A sociopath’s goal is always to win, and sometimes to destroy us in the process. When we stay alive, we deny the sociopath’s victory.

We can also start a process that, over time, will enable us to claim victory for ourselves.

It doesn’t seem that way in the blackness of despair as we survey the wreckage of our lives. But as many of us have learned, amid the wreckage we may discover that our broken ideas and beliefs actually needed to be broken and thrown away. We were operating under false conceptions of ourselves, conceptions that made us vulnerable to the predators.

We learn that if we stay alive, we can begin to rebuild our lives, and when we do, we will be living our own truth.

So how do we do it? We keep putting one foot in front of the other. We cry when we need to, then we pick ourselves up and push on. We keep going forward, even though we don’t believe we can.

The road to recovery takes time and patience. It takes recognizing that we may be suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder (PSTD). It takes caring about ourselves and being kind to ourselves.

The first step is staying alive.

Please, Lillian, we know your situation is very, very bad. But don’t let him win.

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Dear Lillian,

Im sorry for what you are going through. But Im so damn glad you are going to get through this. Especially knowing you have kids, and you have a spirit and soul that is truly alive inside waiting for you to open whatever doors come your way —

He did a god-awful thing to you. But now that he is gone you can start to slowly pick up the pieces. If he had stayed or had you allowed him to stay Im most certain you would be walking around worse than you are now. You are right..the other woman many feel like Cinderella temporarily, but soon she will have to start behaving like his Wicked Step Mother (picking up the slack of the spoiled selfish sick child she has hooked up with)….

Meanwhile – you can be the real Cinderella of this story, picking up the pieces and slowly doing whatever it takes to get your life back. Because you can. And what are we peanuts over here? 🙂 If you reach out here any time of day or night…we will reach back to you and support you and help you get through what we all cant relate to on many different levels – you are not alone, and never have to be isolated with LF here for you. We care. Because we know. Or we are learning. Or you are teaching us…

You most certainly dont deserve this. Nobody does. YOU CAN GET OUT FROM THIS. YOU WILL. BUT YOU HAVE TO START TO TRY AND BELIEVE IN YOURSELF AGAIN. The only thing that could ever be possibly our fault here is if we let ourselves down. Enough people have let us down, we really shouldnt let ourselves down too. We have the most to give ourselves Lillian. You know someone who can help you. Shes with you right now as you read this. ((HUGS)) Keep the faith with all of us!!!

And I cant help but go here….goodness forgive me for what Im about to say…but yours was a really a bad man….so Did you say Mexico? Because maybe just maybe….just mayyybeeee…. .they didnt have a mask for him!

Ox Drover

DEar Lillian,

Your loss seems “total” to you right now….but take it from one who almost didn’t get out with her life, actually two of my family barely skated out of that with our very lives….if you are ALIVE, there is HOPE…..

You not only lost your “financial security” (and I lost much of mine) but you lost much or even ALL of your “self” in the arson of his burning of your world.

I am so glad that you came here to LoveFraud, while at first glance this may seem “just another web site” but LoveFraud is ANYTHING BUT “just another web site.” This is an intentional community of caring, UNDERSTANDING support, advice, love, and HOPE.

My psychopathic son hired another psychopath to murder me and I had to leave my home and literally run for my life!

I can imagine the pain you are in, the feeling of there is “nothing left to live for” but there IS the most important thing to live for —YOURSELF!

STAY here, and read and read and read, learn all you can, both about him, and also ABOUT YOURSELF.

Reclaim YOUR POWER, which right now, I imagine is feeling very low, but it isn’t gone, the batteries are just needing recharging and this is one of the best recharging station for depleted batteries I have found.

I am so sorry your experience was so devestating, but you and I are alive, and I am so glad for both of us that we survived. ((((hugs))))) and my prayers for your healing and recovery.


You are stronger than you know. Keep reading and writing- you will rise again. Don’t let this sub-human define you.

Everyone who posts here KNOWS the hell you lived through and continue too. BUt we are thriving.

Early on I decided to give the psychopath not one bit more of me. Living and thriving is revenge to them – they want us broken down because of them. Psychopaths are truly bothered only by those who are indifferent to them- they feed off of positive/negative attention.

Dr. Leedom you are so correct, they desire murder by suicide. I have written on rich and famous psychos commited “murder by suicide.”



Welcome to the Club! Sorry You are A Qualified member!
I did move into a tent, spent months in it at state parks! Was evacuated four times because of Huricanes. And I still was Hooked on the Psychopath , he was still living off of me, making life miserable!
At one point , driving back from the Keys I thought If I could just get back and drop him off somewhere! I thought about leaving him in the Keys!

It finaly took the threat of lossing my life to Let GO!

So If your alive and safe then you have won the battle!
Kickback TRUST God! He brought you through this far He will never fail you! LetgoletGod!

You have come to the right place sit back and make yourself at home!



I am sorry what you are going through.

I’m a criminal defense lawyer. If anybody should know that a lot of criminals are sociopaths, it is me. When I met my S, he had been released from prison 3 weeks earlier (I didn’t know that at the time). Once I found that out, I should have had my guard up. But, I never knew what hit me.

People on this site sometimes use me as a sounding board. So, if there’s any legal questions you might have feel free to run them by. As for the house, if it is “underwater” (you owe more than its worth), I’d go into court with an appraisal showing that and see if you can get you S’s lawsuit tossed.









NSH called to tell me i need to THINK about what he is telling me and make a settlement NOW.

Creditors are closing in, his Construction business is laden with debt (from putting the b-b-que together) and i had better take the shore house now and put it in my name before the creditors take it. House is in Con. Co name – this is the only clean asset we have.

I suspect he is getting ready to declare bankruptcy on Const CO. bevause now he will live off the b-b-que and resurrect his construction business if he so chooses. All to not let me have my fair share !!!!

I know i cannot accept a settlement without records and the forensic being complete. Also, I don’t think he can be so premeditated by converting the house to my name fraudulently right before declaring bankruptcy.

In addition, I can’t $$ carry that house right now.

Any thoughtS?????


sorry – The first post didn’t make it



Ah, yes. The classic sociopath urgent emergency. This sudden “urgency” on the part of NSH for you to settle now is making me very suspicious. Did he call you directly or did he call your lawyer? Something tells me he called you directly, trying to circumvent the process.

My first concern would be if he transferred the asset and then filed for bankruptcy within 90 days. I’m not a bankruptcy attorney, but I seem to recall that any transfers of company assets away from the company during the 90 days preceding a bankruptcy could be deemed a “preference” and called back by the trustee overseeing the bankruptcy. That would be my concern off the top. Plus, as I understand it, if you got past the 90 day period, the trustee can still call the transfer back if he suspects fraud.

Double check with your attorney on the transferring of the one “clean” asset, but if he wants to commit fraud, don’t you be a party to it. Also, at a minimum I would bet that his “friend” who sunk 100K into the construction business will assert a claim on the beach house if NSH puts the construction company into bankruptcy.

You don’t think he can be so premeditated by fraudulently conveying the house to you right before he files for bankruptcy. I think he does. Before he’ll convey the house, he is going to demand you sign a settlement agreement then and there. He defaults during those 90 days, the house will probably be called back by the creditors. And now you’re going to have to fight to get the settlement agreement reopened.

My second thought is that the forensic accountant may have turned over a few rocks that have information that is going to blow him out of the water. So, if he can win the race to the settlement, his nefarious doings won’t have to come to light. Because if he’s been committing fraud and this comes to light in court, don’t be surprised if the court announces that it is going to turn his name over to the DA.

My third thought is, without seeing what his various agreements etc relating to the business entities is that he may very well have had one entity guaranteeing the debts of another or, he may be personally on the hook for the debts, since banks, when lending to “closely-held” business entities generally do not lend to the entity without the personal guarantee of the majority owner.

I’d start by talking to your attorney and getting him up to speed. I think the two of you should touch base with the forensic accountant and see where she is at — his creditors may be closing in, but, as I said, she may have stirred up the hornet’s nest and that’s what has him chomping at the bit. She should be able to give you some kind of interim report.

In any case, you’re on the right track — you can’t accept a settlement without the records and the forensic being complete. One other thought. Although you said you don’t have the money to carry the house right now, could you move into the house or rent it out for the summer?


Thanks MATT

Yes, he called me himself and seems resistent when I tell him to put his offer in writing and get it to the lawyers.

I put in a call to the lawyer as you suggested-=waiting for a call back.

Since, the shore house is in CO name , I cannot do anything with it right now. In the future, I suppose i could try to rent it but the class of available tenants in the area tend to run the properties down when full time. And it isn’t really a weekly rental -unless for an avid boater that would use the lagoon to get out to the bay or ocean.

It seems he put ALL the debt into Const. business to fund the bar-b-que corporations. Is that legal to run one down to bankruptcy to support the others and go bankrupt on only one with no consequence to the others? Also, if he declares bankruptcy – does that means he stops Const. business altogether? If so, 4 more people will lose jobs – one guy has a non-working wife and 2 kids. Or is he still allowed to operate? My guess is he will resurrect it under maybe another name after our D is complete.

He has not submitted all his records – spotty at best – on purpose to be sure. Can he be forced to submit?

Second and third requests have gone to his lawyer in writing.

Thanks Again, MATT!!!!

You always help me ask the lawyer the right questions. Fees are high and I hate to get on the phone sputtering and unprepared. You also rest my heart and soul a little when I feel so helpless………..God Bless!!!

His friend has received the signed promissory note – to my surprise. That note is now against the Bar-b-que joint.



Doesn’t surprise me that he would resist putting it in writing.

Regarding his putting all the debt on the construction business, I guess he can do that. My question still is whether he has cross-guarantees among the business entities and/or is personally guaranteeing the debt. Something your lawyer and accountant need to determine.

Construction company owners are notorious for dropping the companies into bankruptcy. That is why you see so many housing developers fall into bankruptcy the minute a development is finished and the lawsuits start. Then the owners magically arise from the ashes with and create a new company with a name that is remarkably similar to the name of the defunct entity. His employees, if they hadn’t been paid, would probably step to the front of the creditor line. But, they have no gauranty of having a job with the new entity.

If he doesn’t produce the records, a judge can issue an order compelling him to produce them. If he doesn’t the judge can hold him in contempt and fine/lock him up.

Does sort of make you wish you could strap a lightning rod to his head and make him take a walk on a golf course during the next thunder storm, doesn’t it?


OK , Matt,

You, like Mr. Becker – actually can get me to laugh.

YES – I would like to shake him to his corre because he is turning out to be the total OPPOSITE of what I thought all these years.

All these years I paid bills on time – we had an immaculate credit rating – and never put us in credit card debt. No car loans outstanding – NOT ONE DIME ON MY SIDE!!!

Yet, the last years he has gone haywire. He had some some things in the early years I fought him on – a second house we could NOt afford with another partner – he lost interest after awhile and we lost money. He invested in stock market – we lost money. He had some inventions he spent money on prototypes – went nowhere.

But now I guess he was only in TRAINING – preparing for the last 6 years or so . Is it possible to be a sociopath a little and then BLOOM fully at some point?

He does show impeccable restraint when he has to- in front of witnesses. Most of his behavior was always passive -aggressive – too bad I knew noth of p/a behavior to detect it.

I do believe he is a strategist – planner -plotter – and now he says if I don’t listen to him about a deal I will be a self-fulfilling prophecy of being broke .

Is this projection or intimidation?


The first step is staying alive.

I came across this on YOUTUBE.

This message is on personality disorders but it’s the song that really did it for me. Hope you visit it.


I’ll dedicate my next act of revenge against one of my sociopaths to you – privately (just between us) of course. It shall be called: “The Boat Don’t Float No More”.



Oh my God I am SO glad you found your way to this website. Please, PLEASE,please…..choose life. I understand your absolute devastation and despair. It is, to be sure, life changing. But it doesn’t have to be life ending.

It is, though I know for sure it doesn’t feel like it right now, a beginning. You CAN make it through this.

I understand, I know you DO NOT deserve this, and I care. Please come and share yourself with us, so we can support you through your journey……


DO NOT let that spathhole win!!! I was also broke, my credit ruined, & being stalked. I somehow pulled myself together, & then I got mad. I began to fight back, after I went through the healing stages. You can ,too. I will pray for you!


Hey, Matt,

Update – spoke to the lawyer and thanks to you I think it took half the time because I knew what to ask. Guess I owe you half the fees. Glad to buy you a drink if you get to NJ.

Anyway, of course you are correct. I cannot do anything to obtain titlwe of the shore house. It can in fact be taken back if he does go bankrupt and I will be left in the cold. All answers go back to having to complete the forensic acctg to get an accurate $$$ amount of debt, assests, dissipated marital assets, chargevbacks to his income for personal expenses paid by the Co. etc etc etc.

So my lawyer advised me to politely call him and tell him my hands were tied as to making any agreement over the house or anything else until he submitted all his records. My lawyer would be negligent and liable if he were to advise me otherwise – unless the settlement was soooooo sweeeet I didn’t have any desire to ask for details. Obviously , that ain’t gonna happen.

NSH did NOT take the call very well – says, ” OK- listen to those A##Ho##s and see where you land. I’m trying to look out for you and all they want to do is take your money in fees.”

I reminded him that I trusted HIM when I signed to re-mortgage the current house I live in and the credit line – under the promise of working our relationship out.

NOW – no reason to talk, trust or listen – he’s already shown his intent.



“I’m trying to look out for you…” No doubt through the cross-hairs of his shotgun. As for them wanting to take your fees…well, I guess you could have explained the obvious to the oblivious (him) that you wouldn’t need to expend the fees if he had been honest and forthcoming in the first place.

The more I thought about your situation, the more I realize your S is making what I call a “turn key argument” — the sound you hear is the key being turned in your jail cell door. I admire your restraint. I probably would have told him “I”m sorry, although federal prisons have a higher level of amenities, I have no interest in joining you there as a co-conspirator. So, I must politely decline your generous offer.”

By the way, happy to help. I’ll take you up on that drink, I’m only next door in NYC — although I’d prefer we don’t go to his B-B-Que joint.

Ox Drover

DEar Newlife,

I’m with matt, I hear the handcuff keys clinking with your soon to be X! You know, it might be “worth it” for you to end up bankrupt if it ends hiim up in Federal Prison.! LOL

Matt, you should not WONDER where you need to look for a “job” or which direction to go!!! You are a NATURAL for going into family law, because you GET IT! Can you imagine just how much an attorney who DOES GET IT and can know what the Ps are probably up to is worth! How many people NEED YOU!!!!

newworld view


wow i think shes on to something there……not only make a living, but a gratifying emotional paycheck as well



Please know that my heart goes out to you, as I am sure the hearts of many others go out to you. Choose life because you deserve more than the pain that he has caused. Choose life because you are valuable, and you are loved, even if you are feeling neither at the moment.

There are many of us who don’t post often, like myself, or don’t post at all but who still read this site and gain support and perspective from it.

Personally, I don’t post because it is so painful to specify the hurtful experiences. I am not exactly sure how to heal, but I do know that no contact works and time works, and perhaps feeling the pain in measured doses works too.

I had an unexpectedly bad experience tonight. It is a lovely Spring evening where I live, and I decided to walk to the grocery store before settling in for the evening. As I waited at an intersection for the light to change, I had that animalistic sensation that someone was looking at me (all in a pre-conscious, quick second), and I looked up and in that direction, and across the street diagonally from me, was the s/p and his new victim.

I feel so sorry for her. I wish I could rescue her, but I know that in attempting to do so, I could very well endanger myself. At first I was determined to continue on to the store, but the s/p and his innocent victim were headed in that direction. So, shaken, yet strong, I returned home and called a friend. Later on, I walked back to the grocery store, just so my path there wouldn’t be marred by the unexpected “contact” with the sociopath.

I swing between hating him and missing the charming (yet inexplicably inconsistent) person I experienced during the first few months that I knew him.

Sometimes, I don’t think very highly about myself. But I thought about it tonight, and there is absolutely nothing that I did to deserve his groteseque betrayal, his never-ending deceit, his grand manipulation and his unabashed exploitation and neither have you.

Please take care of youself. There are those of us out here who really care what happens to you. Choose life so that you may choose life.


I found this today and because of the name I explored the blog. At first I was interested till I explored further.

We have discussed the ability and the liklyhood of Sociopaths in every profession . Check this out if you want and see if this Psyciatrist does not fit the mold? I’ll let others read him and see if they read the same as me. I don’t believe there is a Wholsom Sociopath! I believe their only purpose is self gratification regardless of the cost to others!


I have a question..and feedback would be much appreciated. Being that I have a child with an S..and no contact…is a bit difficult. I have kept it at a minimum and STRICTLY about our son. I have been indifferent. I know they feed off of atention…positive or negative…and he isnt getting any….I feel a bit nervous now as I am not sure why…can anyone tell me from experience what the reaction of “indifference” is with one of these creatures..I know he doesnt like being cut off from me and having it be strictly about our son.


Dear Lillian,

I’m so very sorry for all the horrible things that were done to you. Even though my contact with a narcissist/sociopath wasn’t in the intimacy of a romantic connection, I got devastated financially and cut off from teaching art history, which I loved. I know that you can’t see it coming, and you’re so busy being run over that it takes a long time to figure out that what hit you was a freight train!

I was broken when I came here only several weeks ago. I felt overwhelmed because the life I was trying for was gone due to the systematic cruelty of one person, and worse, I felt stupid and guilty for letting it happen. Connection with the incredible people here at this site pulled me back from the brink! My family still doesn’t “get it” and doesn’t want to — they think everything was my fault for not fighting harder, but they’ve never dealt with a s/p.

Cry and get it out! I did – I still do. But in between times, read and read and read! You’ll begin to see that your only “mistake” was being human and thinking everybody else has the same set of emotions and a sense of values. Some are just missing those things, and most of us never really got how profoundly destructive a person like that can be. They will literally strip a life clean and work tirelessly to dismantle it.

The people here will help you. I can say that because they made me KNOW I’m not alone! I had no idea that anything like this existed, where people from all over would take the time and make the effort to lift each other up, tell their stories, offer great advice, and even laugh together! You may not believe me yet, but I promise if you read here long enough, you’re going to find tears of laughter running down your cheeks, and then you’re going to know then that you’ve begun to heal. It’s pretty great.

But first, for now, while everything still sucks the big one: Please don’t give up! If you can’t yet believe in yourself (and you will again if you hang out here), believe that this is a healing place and you are welcomed here.

I wish you all the best! I’m glad you’re here, but so sorry for what you’re going through.



My ex P and i broke up last november.He has my dog, my jewellery, art, household goods, photos albums, lap top,l ipod, clothing,kitchen and bathroom stuff…nearly everything i own. I know I won’t get back the ten grand I lent him.The dog is micro chipped in my name and he has given it to his daughter. He got an avo/dvo on me so that i can’t go near him or his adult kids to get anything back. A few times he has told me to write a list and come over to get my things and when I get there he calls the police and says I have breached my avo…a set up.
So far I have not been able to get anything back. He is an alcoholic and a dentist ( he only works two days a week). he thinks I am going give him up to the police as he defrauded the insurance and tax people for well over 100,00 dollars. But I’m not – because he can afford lawyers and I can’t.
Is there any way I can get my things back, or should I forget it?


Betty: After the S/P defrauded me of more than I can count (see Tilly’s post — I’m not her, but this sounds familiar), I was “rescued” by someone who sounds so much like your academic mentor that my eyes were twirling as I read your story several weeks ago.

The first thing we need to do is get past our own misguided “guilt” over having been targeted by them and not having recognized them more quickly.

I am so glad you told your story. That helps people here realize that this issue is far more than a “romance gone wrong.”

Stay strong. And know that your great heart and your integrity are your strengths — not your weaknesses.


Hello Tilly: I saw that you are new to the site, and I want to give you a hug in recognition.

As I understand, You want to get your life back, and this lunatic is stepping all over your things, and on top of that, he has your dog.

I understand this better than I wish I did.

The one manipulative tool you have is this “dentist’s” ego. If you can think strategically about this, he doesn’t want to look like the jerk that he really is. How can he look like a real “prince” by giving you everything that he should actually give you any way?

I suggest that you might do better by staying out of the courts but by not threatening and instead promoting him for giving you what actually is really yours.

Their egos are so huge they can’t see reason when they are being pumped up.

So, — would he look like a prince for wrapping everything up and sending you on your way? (Since keeping a dog and storing things is such a nuisance . . .)

When I fled, knowing he was criminally dangerous, I wasn’t able to take one of my dogs. Everything else that you mention is still out of my own reach, but the P returned the dog because I think he knew that it would be too traceable and to embarrassing for him if he hurt my dog.

I feel for you. Stay strategic, as best you can.



I agree with OXd, I don’t know what the heck you are getting from criminal defense? Your surrounding yourself with these behaviors but worst yet…..your DEFENDING them??? (I know some of them are innocent and that is your reward)
Family Law is your calling…..especially now! Going through it currently, I see for you the personal rewards you would receive doing this sort of work, concentrating on representing BPD victims. You recognize them and relate on a personal level. You know what to do, how to handle these people….your a shoe in! Like OXd said, you ‘get it’. That’s the biggest part of finding an attorney…..I know, i went through 15K with an attorney that ‘said’ he ‘got it’, but really didn’t have a clue. I am on to my second attorney and I believe she ‘get’s it’, but I am not convinced she is willing to go the length.
You would be a true HERO and make a good living for yourself.
WIN+WIN=Great feelings and rewards for yourself= HUGE self esteem booster=Great life=Happiness!!!
If you need a great assistant with tenacity and balls….I’m your girl! Heck, I’d even move to NY to shake it up with you on this venture!
Think of the possibilities.
I see a bright future with hope!! 🙂
Matt and Erin Brockovich….Kicking butt and taking names!!!


Thankyou Rune. I know he has already given my dog to his adult daughters (who assaulted me and hate me more than he does ! Still not sure why!). There are law orders in place that I can’t communicate with him or any of them , so I can’t actually “promote” him to get my stuff back. I am glad I can’t too as the NC rule truly is the only one that works for me!
What happened to me before this relationship was ten times worse. It happened in 2001 and i still can’t really talk about it without being terribly triggered. Suffice it to say, my grandma died and i inherited her house.
No, still can’t go there yet. So suffice it to say, a solicitor psychopath robbed me of my home and had me charged and locked up and,
no, still can’t go there yet.
Well, anyway, it took me years to mentally recover from it and eventually (2008) all the charges were dropped through the supreme court of appeal.
Well it was one week after they were dropped that the dentist tried to do the same thing all over again.
Thats enough for now. gonna have to stop. too traumatic.
Thankyou for responding to me Rune, it matters more than you will ever know. xo


P.S. I am so paranoid from what I have been through that sometimes I think that the p has read what I have said on this site and is gloating that he has destroyed me.
I have never felt jealous or envious of his new victim and have always seen her as just THAT..the next victim. I would never have tried to convince anyone of what he is really like, because if he can con me (after the solicitor) he can con Charles Manson!


I checked out that link. I thought he simply stated the same sort of things Martha Stout states in her book–the professions sociopaths are good at, then the hardships they face, then he gave his opinion re any possible treatment. I’m not sure, but it sounds as if you are saying based on his answer that the therapist sounds like a sociopath himself. I didn’t get that sense at all from reading his reply to David. I thought he gave a very down to earth, common sense reply. Just my opinion though. –Jen


To the original poster of the letter.

I’m sorry you are going through this and since you are right in the middle of the trauma right now with all the loss and with him suing you, I know it all is very overwhelming. But you’ve taken a good step by contacting Donna and Lovefraud and reaching out for help and support. Just try to concentrate on getting through one day at a day. Just that one day. Then the next day concentrate on making it through that day. Continue to reach out to others for support and to help break that isolation. Come here and read and learn and if you feel up to it post and vent and seek support. Peace be with you. –Jen



It seems like your dentist has created the perfect conumdrum. He’s holding your things, then says he’s willing to hand them over, and when you go over, then he claims you are violating the restraining order. How nice for him.

Seems to me there are two courses of action here. First, do you have copies of his communications saying “come on over and get your things?” If you do, I’d take them to the local police and failing them, the DA’s office. Let them get involved since, ostensibly, their job is to keep the peace.

Second, why haven’t you reported him to the tax authorities and the insurance company? These creatures fear exposure. Personally, you owe this creature no loyalty and in your shoes I would blow him out of the water in a heartbeat. More to the point, since he’s cost you money by keeping your things, you cost him money by letting him duke it out with big boys like the tax authority and the insurance company.


I have a question..and feedback would be much appreciated. Being that I have a child with an S..and no contact”is a bit difficult. I have kept it at a minimum and STRICTLY about our son. I have been indifferent. I know they feed off of atention”positive or negative”and he isnt getting any”.I feel a bit nervous now as I am not sure why”can anyone tell me from experience what the reaction of “indifference” is with one of these creatures..I know he doesnt like being cut off from me and having it be strictly about our son.



Well, from my experience indifference really does irk them. He may up the ante every now and then to try to get a rise out of you, but if you can refrain from giving it to him, he may grow bored with that and those times may grow less frequent.
Of course, it is really difficult to remain emotionless when they start doing really vindictive or bizarre things. But when I could manage it, the indifference worked like a charm. But when I’d give an emotional reaction he would start back with his crap with a vengenance.


One other thing, your nervousness could be because acting indifferent is foreign to you, unfamiliar, so you are getting into unknown territory because you don’t have much experience with his reaction to that. When we do things that seem against our normal reactions, it tends to make us (or me anyway) nervous and uncomfortable.



My thoughts and prayers are with you. Don’t expect family or friends to understand, because they just can’t. Don’t even try to talk to them about it. It is out of their realm of understanding.

Find a group of people, (maybe a shelter that houses abused people) that has support groups. Sometimes they meet everyday or evening of the week. Go there and talk, talk, talk, and work it through. Get some one-on-one counseling too.

There is so much healing when you have others that are validating your feelings (as you will get on this site). And you will heal w/ more and more insight.

And if you choose, allow God to help you. He’s the best at it!!

Peace to you!




I haven’t suffered the physical/financial abuse that you have – mine was psychological, emotional, and professional, coming from someone I thought was one of my best and closest friends and colleagues (I haven’t shared any details because I share Tilly’s fear that he might be coming here and reading and I’m just now getting back on my feet and don’t want to risk another attack; this guy is scary smart and calculating) – but I have, because of my upbringing and genetic heritage, suffered from serious depression most of my life. When I was younger, I was suicidal, but after much work, I thought I had gotten past at least that. Well, that was before I got targeted. By the time the SP in my life got through with me, I was back to square one. It was only thinking about what my suicide would do to my sweet husband (even though the SP was working very hard to get him to transfer his loyalty to HIM and almost succeeded) and family members that got me through. Incidentally, this guy KNEW I suffered from serious depression AND was also suffering from devastating, unrelated PTSD at the time he made his final move to destroy me AND he is a therapist!!!!!!

It was two years of terrible depression, crying, screaming, raging. But I did hang in there. And now – I hope this gives you some hope – I am getting back on my feet. I’m still not fully recovered, but I changed the focus of my professional life and things are looking up. I FINALLY got my husband to see the SP for what he really is – and that was not easy because the SP is SO good at his mask, a seeming saint. I almost gave in to what this MF wanted (once I realized the depth of his sadism and cruelty, it was so very shocking and disturbing I felt as if I’d gotten a glimpse of hell for the first time in my life – and I don’t even believe in hell!) but I am so glad I didn’t! Yeah, flip this a**hole the bird by surviving and eventually thriving! It IS the best revenge. DO NOT let this predator make you do his dirty work for him!

I know you can’t see your way through this right now, but the compassionate and loving posters who have responded to you here are right – you will find a way. Just take it one day and one thing at a time. Spend lots of time here, as others have suggested. The loving support you’ll find and the excellent advice will get you through. Here, people will believe YOU instead of the SP. That alone is HUGE! Matt will very generously help you with any legal issues that come up; I myself didn’t have any legal issues that I chose to pursue (though I could have; I just didn’t want to stay entangled, just wanted to get away), but he has been unbelievably generous with others.

Once you get this twisted soul out of your life and your heart and mind, things will start looking up – they will!! In ways you couldn’t have even imagined. Hang in there, Lillian. Take heart. You’re surrounded by love from genuine people who have been through this, too.


Dear Lillian,
Often times the hardest things we are facing in our lives we feel alone….You are not alone! You have come to the right place. So many people here have been where you are now and will offer you not only their personal stories but good advice, comfort and support during this troubled time.

Many people who have not been through what you have witnessed will not ever be able to comprehend what you are trying to say to them when describing your pain. And that is why it is so important to feel validated. The people on this site will do just that.

Please entertain in your mind the idea of life….You can get through this. You need to feel the loving support that is offered here.



OXY is right. We need someone with your depth of understanding and compassion. You would be lethal …..with a smile on your face.

We ‘ll go for that drink – not the bb-que- but you would be impressed with what he did for himself – if you didn’t know how he did it and who he hurt to get it.

It is well over-done – really restaurant quality for a bbque and in a bad neighborhood. Maybe this is why the S ‘s are always so self-defeating. Puts a palace in the middle of a ghetto to sell chicken . He’s got the ideas but ultimately the plan goes awry.

Are s’s known for getting bored with things too?

Everything, including women , seems to have a time limit on it.



Thanks. I’ve started to poke around and see what is out there on the family/matrimonial law front. Problem is going from one legal speciality to another. Legal Aid would love me. Problem is it pays something like 25K here in NYC, and I like to eat. Still, the search has just started.

S’s are definitely known for getting bored with things. Robert Hare says they’re always looking for a fresh “buzz”. Since mine had the attention span of a fruit fly — except when he was trying to bleed me for cash — I’d say I agree with him.


Dear Lillian:

Please, please, PLEASE don’t give up! There are more of us out there like you than you realize. I, myself, have lost my home to my ex-P, many of my dearest possessions, my wonderful dog, and most of my sources of social support due to his smear-campaign. I had to give up being a vegetarian after twenty years so the food I gave my non-veggie kids didn’t go to waste because I couldn’t afford to buy much. For three weeks, I had to live in my campervan with my three kids because I was homeless. I’m $100,000 in debt. He aligned himself with my former ex-P and, as a team, they have made my life a living hell.

The worst he did to me was molest our daughter when she was a toddler. Nobody believed me: not the courts, the police, the social workers. He spun it so I was a bitter, vindictive ex-wife. He still has generous visitation but, fortunately, his bid to obtain full custody failed. But I am always on the alert, always vigilant.

I’m in my forties and I can see now that, unless a miracle happens, I’m going to die poor.

I so badly wanted to give up. I turned to cigarettes and alcohol – at mid-life!! If it wasn’t for my kids, I’d probably have done much harder drugs because I wanted to die, too. I so desperately wanted to give up but couldn’t because of my kids. They, alone, are what saved me.

It all started three years ago and it has been the most painful, difficult journey I have ever had to endure in my life. It’s still not over but I’m still here, plodding on.

And that’s the key phrase here: JOURNEY. The rough part of my journey is over and now I’m just in maintenance-mode (speaking optimistically). It has changed me dramatically. My soul was sucked dry, my value system was turned upside-down (do I kill the P-pedophile or not?!!! And why not?!!!).

I lost myself, the gentle, tolerant, compassionate soft-spoken and shy person that I once was. I grieved that loss as I saw myself transition to someone harder, more cynical, untrusting. But out of those ruins, there have been extraordinary benefits. It seems paradoxical, but I’m much less introverted. I’ve been extremely confident and strong because if I didn’t, I would surely have withered and died. I now CHOOSE my friends, not vice versa.

You are beginning your journey and it will undoubtedly be difficult. But there WILL be salvation at the end IF you focus on YOURSELF. Take care of YOURSELF, always. Meet YOUR needs FIRST. You have been traumatized. If your wounds were physical, you would be in the Emergency ward right now with hordes of people hovering over you, ensuring you SURVIVE.

Think of us at Lovefraud as your Trauma Team. Grief is always a private and personal experience but all of us on this site have experienced the unique trauma sociopaths can inflict. That’s why we’re here. We are reaching out to you to help you understand, help guide you in the darkness you’re currently in. We will be your anchor in turbulent times and you will see that it DOES get better.


ember halo

this is my first post…

i thought i was going crazy. i thought it was all my fault that he treated me the way he did. partly because i had been in a series of relationships that were similarly abusive, but to a lesser extent. he “just” asked questions, he “just” shared how he “felt” about something… if i shared my emotions (which were usually full of pain, bewilderment, and had started on thoughts of suicide) he’d say something like “laying it on a bit thick, aren’t you?” he was controlling to the point that i could not take showers by myself. i had to dress according to what he deemed appropriate. i could not be in the bathroom by myself for more than 3 minutes (and i am NOT exaggerating! everyone says they think i must be, but he was really that bad!) a rubberband with paint on it that he found in my car was evidence that i was cheating on him while at work! i was no longer “allowed” to take MY OWN car to work–he dropped me off!

he stole money from me on a regular basis. thousands & thousands of dollars–at $20 to $200 intervals, so i don’t even know how much he stole, total. he stole from our daughter. after i got laid off & was on unemployment & a very tight budget (i had to pay all the bills –including my mortgage– he wouldn’t work, wasn’t on any of the bills) he squandered enough money for 2 months’ worth of bills in a single month, overdrawing my accounts. he was buying drugs & video game consoles. i thought i was going to be okay until then. it felt like he punched me in the stomach, i just couldn’t breathe when i saw that i was heading for foreclosure & defaut on all my bills. i would rarely ever even be late on a bill, much less MISS payments. and on top of it–he wouldn’t even leave my house!!! he’s still there–i moved out with our daughter into a room at my mom’s house 3 months ago.

he would ask us to come over so he could see us, talk to me. he kept feeding me lines about going into jobcorps, doing something with his life, quitting drugs. but then when we’d get over there he’d steal from me, take my car, and disappear for hours–to go get drugs i’m assuming. he didn’t care about spending time with our daughter. he does’t care about her safety or well being. he’s trashed the place–kicked in appliances, taken an axe to the wall & floor, kicked holes in the sheet rock, kicked in all the doors. trash & cigarette butts all over the place. knives stashed everywhere–within reach of our toddler!!!

once we were talking on the phone, and he was actually getting VERY angry because no one would give him money (“help him out”) neither me nor his family. he was irate–cussing, yelling (of course he said he was not yelling) and even went so far as to say he was “suffering” because he didn’t have his pot to smoke!! and railed at me for having money but not giving it to him. like he’s entitled to anything that anyone has!

i’m getting divorce papers filed soon. his family has now taken his side & has been calling me names. he has told them that i cheated on him (he was always harping on me doing that & i never did) and that i’m trying to keep our daughter from everyone. he’s apparently convinced them with an over the top “pity play”–crying & everything, at the horrors & abuse *he* had to withstand from *me*

he tries the pity play with me, about how he’ll move out of the house & go live on the street, yada yada… i don’t care anymore. i go between feeling numb, terrified that he’ll do something to me or our daughter, and weeping at what he has already done to me.

his myspace says he’s at the bottom, but then has a huge smiley face.

ember halo

one thing i’d like to add–

my S knew that a child could be the ultimate weapon against me…
but he didn’t realize that my love for her would come with such huge reserves of strength & perseverance.

because he doesn’t understand the concept of love, he underestimated it.
that is the S’s greatest weakness.


ember halo:

Welcome. Gay, straight, male, female, we have all walked a million miles in your shoes.

The control, the parasitic bleeding, the pity play, the staggering sense of entitlement, the fiscal irresponsibility, the lack of responsibility for his family, the drug addiction, the lack of respect for your property, the lack of work, and last but not least, the smear campaign are all classic sign posts that you have been dealing with a full blown sociopath.

The only weapon and best weapon at your disposal is NC (no contact). Going NC helps you get out of the brain fog and helps you see the steps you need to start taking to free yourself from this creature and get on with your life.

Education is key to freeing yourself. Robert Hare’s “Without Conscience” helps you really understand what you have been dealing with and helps your understand there is no treatment for these monsters. Also, like you, I had been in a series of abusive relationships which culminated with my ex-bf, S (short for sociopath). I never understood how this happened until I read “The Betrayal Bond” by Carnes.

Work your way through the archives, just read the articles. You can go back later and read the threads — there is some really good stuff in there.

In any case, you are in a place of healing. Six months ago when I found this site, I was ready to commit suicide. I somehow found the strength to drive off S and save myself. It hasn’t been easy sledding. I lost my job in February and have been going through some health problems from all the prolonged stress. That said, I actually feel like I’m on the road to recovery and never, ever again being in an exploitive relationship like the one I had with S.

Once again, welcome.


Kickback, I haven’t got to catch up on all posts, I got stuck on re: letters from Sociopaths. THank you for forwarding this site to us.

I feel the knowledge is so empowering ,although frightening at the chilling actions they admit to doing and/or fantasize about doing. Makes me feel stronger as I have more affirmation, and MORE compelling reasons to know we made LIFE SAVING DECISIONS- REGARDLESS OF OUR TRAUMATIC LOSSES to stay the hell away from these maniacs and their kind. This site shows that we are actually among the fortunate that we DIDNT DIE IN THE HANDS OF THESE DYSFUNCTIONALS.

From what I gathered, more affirmation that ANY and ALL of them are capable of any heinous crime known to man. Never UNDERESTIMATE. Even the young, 14 or under are exhibiting alarming homocidal tendencies. Beware and educate others, expecially our children should be the goal.
Peace to all, and to the writer of this blog- Prayers go out to you..


Kickback- RE:
I didnt so much sense the therapist is also an S. I felt he mostly remained unbiased and emotionally detached when responding to the S. Which I am sure is criteria for a therapist and meets protocol. I didnt necessarily agree with his theory that there is no choice in acting on certain behaviors (if I understood that letter fully- maybe I missed his point somehow) . I feel conditions/changes in antisocial deviances are hopeless if we aren’t held accountable for our actions via choices. If we are only victims of our impulses, without any conscious choice to behave the way we do- what makes us different from animals? Theres more to it than just opposing thumbs.


( in referring to animals) I mean primarily insects,reptiles, undomesticated without ability to reason. Unlike Oxy’s asses, Fat and Hairy, whom are inspirational to us all!


Ember Halo (beautiful sign in name),

Welcome to the site. I am new here too. Though I have been in the no contact mode for around 20 months now, so I am not in the immediate shock phase, as you are.

Let me say that NO ONE here will question your story. 3 minutes in the bathroom before intrusion is ENTIRELY real here. We have all been there, one version or the other.

Keep coming back. And read, read , read as much as you can. The more YOU know this is real, the more you will wake from the nightmare.

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