By Joyce Alexander, RNP (retired)
Tonight on the news I heard where a local Arkansas non-profit had been scammed for over $100,000 by an employee. It is not uncommon in today’s news to hear such things.
I recently came into contact with someone involved with a non-profit group that I will call “ABC.org” because I do not believe the management of this group was in any way involved with what I think is the dishonesty of one of its employees. Here’s how I became involved with this group’s Texas representative.
In the effort to get support for my protest of my son William Patrick Alexander’s parole release, I decided to contact every “murder victim’s support” group in Texas or nationally. I Googled and found several groups that I thought would be appropriate to approach for help.
I sent each of these groups a cover letter by e-mail and attached the official police report from Ft. Worth, Texas, describing the vicious nature of the execution-style murder committed by my son when he killed 17-year old Jessica Witt in January, 1992. I asked each group to please send protest letters and gave my telephone number and a post office box address for them to contact me if they could be of any other assistance. Okay, I admit that this was probably not wise, but I did give these groups my telephone number. It was probably about midnight on a Sunday night when I sent out these e-mails.
About 12:30 a.m., my telephone rang. It was a man named “John Doe” calling from ABC.org. He had received my e mail and wanted to discuss my situation and how he could be of help. Even though I was half asleep when I answered the phone and my “gut” told me that there had to be something wrong, I spoke to him.
Red Flag Number One: A telephone call at an inappropriate time of day (or night, as the case may be).
The next day he called me again a couple of times and e-mailed me. I sent him an e-mail requesting that he not call me at that hour of the night any more. I also gave him some information about where he could obtain therapy for his PTSD that he said he had because his mother had been murdered.
Red Flag Number Two: Poor baby had PTSD ”¦ the pity ploy.
But being the helpful, compassionate person I am, I ignored this red flag as well. I suggested that he might want to read several books that we regularly recommend here for people to learn about psychopaths, Without Conscience by Bob Hare, The Sociopath Next Door, etc.
Then Red Flag Number Three: I received the following e-mail with a different e-mail address than John.Doe@ABC.org:
Please send all future emails to this address John.doe@aol.com.
Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to talk with me about such a sensitive subject.
take care,
John
toll free 1-800-XXX-XXX
P.S. I am a trained journalist. I was wondering if you would consider selling me the book and movie rights to your story at a reduced rate. (Red flag number four, but this time I was starting to listen to my gut.)
I asked him why the change in e-mail addresses and I received this answer.
Joyce,
I just want to keep all our business out of ABC.org business so please use the aol account only.
Thanks,
John
Yep, the red flags are starting to get my attention by now. So I started to ask him what his motives were. When I questioned him about why he wanted to keep information away from his boss at ABC.org, what his “private PR firm” could do for me, why he was trying to get “expense” money from me, either directly or indirectly, through the “book and movie rights” to my story, I got this response by e-mail:
Joyce,
I wanted to explain something. I – whether you believe it or not – am an honest man. And try to do things on the up and up. But not everyone is honest, as you have learned. And I have one fear. I don’t want my boss to say it is a conflict of interest for my company to represent you.
We have conflict of interest clauses in place so make sure we don’t do anything wrong. I am am afraid he will see something wrong with me representing you if you join ABC.org. I don’t know why I think this, but I have an inkling.
I honestly just want to help you and yes maybe make some of my money back and pay my expenses, but I am not and never have been motivated by money and greed. I was going to run this by my boss and see what he says. If he says I can’t represent you I was going to do it on the side and do everything through my legal name James John Doe. Everyone calls me John, but I was born with the name James – that is another story.
So you see, this has nothing to do with a scam but my fear that my boss will say that there is a conflict of interest regarding me representing you. I hope this makes sense to you, because I really want to help you even if I don’t make a dime. I want to do the right thing.
I wouldn’t get involved otherwise. We are talking many, many hours of work without pay and me bringing in other people and asking them to work without pay as well.
That is the truth. I will take a lie detector and pay for the expense if you like. But that is what I am worried about and why I don’t want any paper trial to my biz e-mail account. Because if my boss sees a conflict of interest I don’t want him to tell me “no I can’t represent you.” I am willing to take that chance. And work for you behind his back – I don’t want to do that but I will, because I think we can work together and I think I can help you.
That is all for now. And, God knows that is the truth. I will call you later today at a normal hour to discuss this further.
Thank you for your attention.
John
P.S. Feel free to phone me at XXX-XXXX. That is my home line. I have a 9 a.m. appointment that should last an hour and some afternoon and night meeting, but otherwise I am free.
Notice the various RED FLAGS in his communications ”¦ trying to convince me he is “honest” and this is “not a scam,” just to “make back his expenses.” In another e-mail, he says that the profits from my story can be used to set up a scholarship in Jessica Witt’s name. How altruistic of him.
Dropping names
In several telephone conversations with me, John mentioned a man who has a very high level position in the office of a politician in Texas. This man, I’ll call him Fred Smith, was suggested to me by Parents of Murdered Children as a “go to” person to get some publicity for my “cause.” Then my attorney also mentioned this man as a “go to” person. I had actually talked to him on the phone before John Doe mentioned Fred as his “close friend.” By now I realized that John is a scammer and that he is slinging around the name of this legitimate man, Fred Smith, and I was at a bit of a quandry about how to handle this.
I really didn’t “know” Fred Smith, except for just the one telephone call, but I wanted to let him know that his name was being bandied around by a scammer. I also figured that if John is trying to scam me, he is probably also trying to scam other survivors of murders. I hesitated to report him now, because I was afraid he would sabotage my efforts in Patrick’s parole protest somehow—maybe with Fred Smith and who knows who else. But I finally decided to go ahead. I wrote a letter to Fred Smith explaining the sequence of it all, and sent it to him, along with copies of the e-mails from John Doe.
I also contacted the national office of ABC.org and spoke to the new executive director about the problem. I sent him copies of the e-mails, and a copy of the letter I had sent to Fred Smith. I wanted the executive director to know that I was not going to hide this problem and I wasn’t going to allow him to either.
I got back an e mail saying that this was probably just a “misunderstanding.”
I spoke for over an hour the other day with Mr. Executive Director. After he had had time to completely review the e-mails, he agreed with me that this was dishonesty. He would “handle the situation” and let me know in a week how it was “handled.” I informed Mr. Executive Director that if John Doe did not lose his job, then I would be forced to go to the media, along with Fred Smith’s assistance. Fred Smith is not happy at all about his name being bandied about by someone who is trying to con money from victims via a non-profit. I don’t think ABC.org wants this kind of negative publicity.
The RED FLAGS of a con are apparent in looking at this case in retrospect:
- The man called me on the telephone at an inappropriate time of day for a business-type call.
- His assurances to me when I questioned him about the different e-mail address, the hiding things from his boss, etc.
- The Pity Ploy of “I have PTSD.”
- “I’m going to help you even if my boss says I can’t.”
Though this particular con job was an apparent attempt to find some way to gain financially from me, the basic types of red flags are the same in any kind of psychopathic con job. Whether it is business or love, the red flags are the same: The attempts to get you to trust them, even though there is evidence that they are doing something not quite on the up and up. The explaining away their dishonesty for the “greater good.” The attempts to get you to pity them or identify with them as victims, or to get you to help them. The promises to help you.
Donna’s book The Red Flags of Love Fraud outlines the various ways in which we can identify a potential lover’s psychopathic attempts at conning us. These red flags should not just be limited to romantic relationships, but applied to every relationship in all business or personal parts of our lives. Who would have thought a con man would be representing a legitimate victim’s advocate group?
I had a “gut feeling” from the first telephone call due, to the hour he called, and I should have listened to my gut then. At least, because I am familiar with the red flags, I did pick up on his con a lot sooner than I would have if I hadn’t been “tuned in.” Who knows? Without my understanding of the red flags of a con job, I might have been desperate enough to have given this man money to “help” me ”¦ after all, he was willing to take a lie detector test to prove to me how “honest” he was.
I am a bit further along in the healing process than many of the survivors of murder victims may be and I didn’t fall for the ruse that John Doe presented. Still, it sets my teeth on edge to think that maybe he has conned some unsuspecting and hurting survivor of a murder victim into “hiring” him to represent them with the police to try to solve their unsolved case, or some other “service” he purported to provide.
Regardless of what kind of relationship you had (personal, family, business, or romantic) with a psychopath, learn the RED FLAGS and apply them liberally to relationships of all kinds in your life. You may still get “zinged” from time to time, but the episodes will be shorter and less severe than if you didn’t pay attention to red flags and honor them when you see them.
Oh, and by the way, I got a call from Mr. Executive Director to tell me that John Doe no longer works at ABC.org.
JOYCE!!!!!!!!!!!!! THank you SO Much for this article and I am just disgusted that people use well-intended organizations for their own purposes.
This is something that I’m horrified that you experienced – you’ve got ENOUGH going on without someone trying to run a con on such a volatile situation. But, I’m so very grateful that you’ve posted your experiences with this would-be con because we primarily discuss romantic spaths and cons, and these people are out there in groups and HERDS. ANY person who is traumatized and vulnerable is subject to a con, and they aren’t always romantic, in nature.
Again, thank you so much for sharing this despicable experience. The rat-bastid! Makes me stomp my foot and growl!
Brightest blessings and TOWANDA for putting the brakes on THIS con!!!!
EDIT ADD: This really pisses me off. And, it also frightens me that predators are working EVERY avenue as in-roads for a con. Dammit, jannit! Good for you for making noise about it, Joyce. That took a LOT of courage!
I appreciate this article. It is helpful to see where and how you are in the process (step by step) of recognizing red flags of a con/scam, and how you respond each step of the way.
How you had a gut feeling, didn’t pay attention to it at first, but a few more red flags allowed you to “connect the dots” and handle this before it got too far. Good work!
And your article is timely, because I am peripherally involved in a difficult situation, and if people here have direct advice or thoughts on any sort of solution, I welcome it (it feels like a chessgame where you are blocked and cannot move. I’d love to know if there are any moves available).
In this case, for two years I’ve watched a situation that screamed “sociopath!” to me but I held off judgment for a long while, collecting the red flags to be certain. now, I am certain. I can understand how we Lovefraud victims are extremely cautious in labeling anything that moves a sociopath; we do want to give some benefit of the doubt — I think that is who we are. We need to be certain and allow a certain number and combination of red flags to add up, first. I know I’m much better at detecting smooth operators than I used to be.
Here goes: I have been dating a very nice, very poor man for about two years. I mentioned him awhile ago here, and some of you raised cautions about his financial situation, in case it was a pity play and I might be taken advantage of. I’m still mindful of that, but as it is evolving, he does seem to be an honest, very kind man who is in difficult circumstances who doesn’t want my money or for me to bail him out in any way. We do not live together. We are both keeping some firm boundaries, mostly because I have teenage daughters who are unaccepting of the relationship. For now, this is working out OK though it is not ideal. It is hard for me, for example, to see that he struggles to buy nutritious food. I have him over for dinner a couple times a week. He will not allow me to help him (financially) even in small ways. Whenever he has a seemingly spare $10 (which he doesn’t really have), he takes me out on a very modest date to split a “half price” pizza or sub. I’m old enough I don’t need the fancy date nights any more. I love his companionship. In any case…. we have these boundaries worked out, pretty much.
About a year ago when things were already definitely going well in the relationship, he and I discussed the future/where things were headed — marriage? We both decided that while we each felt that way, his financial problems might end up becoming mine, if we joined legally (he had already had a bankruptcy, and in the bankruptcy, you cannot discharge student loans. That is the problem).
He has three children. When his wife died suddenly 6 years ago, his middle son “Daniel”, the one who was always supposed to become “the doctor,” was in his freshman or sophomore year of college. The wife had taken out some student loans for him, in her name, and when she died those loans were discharged. Like many families, they had not prepared for early death of a spouse/parent with insurance or a will even, so all my BF “Bill” could do was sell the house which went half to him, and the other half split between the kids. That money ran out in about a year. Bill was always the stay at home dad and he worked as a handyman, but was not the primary breadwinner.
When Daniel needed more student loans to finish college, at first Bill took out a couple small parent loans. But when Daniel needed more, Bill said, “I can’t do any more. I don’t have any more money. You will need to do it; you will need to pay them.” Bill co-signed Daniel’s loans but made it clear, “I cannot pay these at all.” Daniel agreed and said he understood.
Fast forward to the two years I have known Bill. Daniel is now 25 years old. He graduated from college about 3 years ago. He has never made a payment on his student loans; Bill has been paying them. From time to time, Bill would arrange with Sallie Mae to suspend the payments for a period of time (this always comes at a cost) because he didn’t have any money to pay them.
At first, two years ago, Bill expressed pride in his son Daniel for being such a hardworking student with ambitions to be a doctor, a smart and attractive young man with a bright future. He also expressed some parental exasperation for all of the parking tickets Daniel would get “because he was late to class and couldn’t find a spot” which would land in Bill’s mailbox because Bill was the co-owner of Daniel’s car and had him on his insurance policy, and Daniel would not pay the tickets on time, so after they doubled, Bill would receive the bill which HE now had to pay or it would affect HIS insurance. There are always consequences to BILL for not paying. It affects HIS financial situation… creditors can come after HIM. Or penalties are added. So he just pays and grits his teeth a little and expresses hope and faith that Daniel will eventually start taking over his responsibilities. He loves his son. (his sociopathic, parasitic son)
I asked Bill, why not get Daniel off your policy and you off the title of the car? Bill claimed that Daniel was hardly ever around (he lived an hour away) and he couldn’t seem to connect up with him in order to transfer tags/title.
And Daniels’ share of the insurance bill, too; he would not pay/reimburse Bill, who every month had to beg for the money through text messages. Daniel appeared to be just very hard to reach and non-responsive, always promising to pay the bill, never paying the bill, and this was also true of the student loan bill (about $350 a month which is such a high amount for Bill that he often struggles to buy food).
Sorry for the excruciating detail. I could go on more about it, but basically after two years of my watching this situation, I see that Bill is angry and resigned to the situation. Daniel appears to me to be a sociopath, willing to let his dad suffer in poverty (can’t afford food, clothing, gasoline, new eyeglasses which he desperately needs). Daniel claims he is studying for and applying to medical school. Daniel has a good medical assistant job, Daniel bought himself a fancy new convertible (and is off the shared car insurance finally as of 7 months ago; the jointly-owned car finally broke down, and THAT was what it took to get Daniel to contact his dad and work with him to get the tags/title stuff dealt with). Daniel lives in a house shared with 3 other young, professional men. Daniel keeps jerking his dad around by telling him he “set up automatic payments” for his student loan, or is going to pay it, or something…. and then Bill gets threatening phone calls from Sallie Mae that his bank account will be seized if he doesn’t pay. Because Daniel has never made a single student loan payment on this loan which Bill co-signed.
For a long time, Bill just thought “poor Daniel, his mom died. I have to take care of him. He is having trouble growing up. He needs this college degree. I have to co-sign, it is my duty as his dad; his mom would have wanted this. I do this in her memory. He will grow up at some point and assume these adult responsibilities. I am worried about him — maybe HE is struggling financially and can’t afford to eat! maybe THAT’S why he is not paying on these things…”
And now Bill just is trying not to feel completely devastated at the selfishness of his son, the disrespect from the son whom he hasn’t seen in a year, who won’t talk to him. Who sends him lying texts that he “has set up automatic payments.” He no longer believes a word this son says. He feels this horrible betrayal at the disrespect of a son he tried so hard to do right by, after mom died so suddenly/unexpectedly.
My question is of an entirely practical nature: given that his son is 99% probably a sociopath (in my view), are there any moves available to Bill at all? Financially. Legally. Any solutions to the problem that Bill is quite honestly too poor to pay 40% of his income to Sallie Mae. He needs to eat. He eats saltines, cereal and cinnamon toast some days because he has no money. It makes me sick with worry. I know student loans are tricky. Bill believes in paying his debts. So he would rather pay this debt and starve. This one ($350 a month) is in Daniel’s name and Bill is the co-signer. If Sallie Mae makes good on its threat to “seize Bill’s bank account,” would not Daniel’s bank account also get seized? anyone know anything about this? Are there any possible moves available to Bill so that he can have enough money to live on?
It doesn’t seem that there is any possibility of appeal to “the goodness of” Daniel’s heart. Bill can’t even reach Daniel, except through text message. He isn’t willing to go stare his son in the eyes and say, “your dad can’t buy eyeglasses or food. Please pay your own bills.” This isn’t really MY problem but I love Bill so I am sad and concerned.
Bill really doesn’t have the money. And he is in his mid-60s and is getting to a point where he can’t work much anymore though he tries very hard and is so very willing to work his a$$ off. He works hard but doesn’t make enough to pay about $600 in student loans each month ($350 of which are Daniel’s loans; the others are parent loans and belong to Bill). These loans will follow him until the day he dies. They will never be paid off. Bill makes about $1500 a month (gross).
Anyway, it’s a sad situation, it will prevent Bill and me from ever marrying, which makes me sad. While I am solvent and self supporting, I am paycheck to paycheck myself and have 3 kids of my own who haven’t started college yet. If I won the lottery, I’d pay off these loans. But in the real world, Bill and I have an understanding that his financial burdens are not going to become my burdens.
Sorry this is so long. Appreciate any words on any moves available to Bill at this point. I am getting my mind around the idea that he will carry this debt with him to the grave, which might be Daniel’s plan. It’s so sad to see Bill so emotionally devastated by the betrayal of a thankless son he loves and cares for. I know this pain; you do anything you can, for a very long time, to come up with rational excuses and explanations for behaviors like this — whether it is in a spouse or a parent or a child. It’s so hard when it is your child.
Truthspeak,
Back to the topic of the article. YES, it is so sick that predators prey on the weak.
But, isn’t that what they DO?
That IS what they do!
I know it isn’t true that niceness = weakness. Niceness is just one of the “red flags” of a potential victim! (I think predators have their OWN “red flag” playbook — what to look for in their victims).
And vulnerability from a death in the family, especially a sudden death or a murder or suicide… that must send out screaming signals/red flags to potential predators!!!
Joyce made ALL the right moves in countering the spath aggression towards her. In fact, it was probably one of those most delightful times when spaths get it right back at them.
Like spaths can lovebomb us (although theirs is deliberate and cunning, to fool us and suck us in), I think Joyce inadvertently presented an initial appearance of vulnerability that probably really got that spath salivating. Then, like spaths show us their true colors, Joyce showed hers — probably gobsmacked him. Totally didn’t expect that.
Sorry, that’s a bit of a mean view.
I worked in several nonprofits, years ago, and they are riddled with corruption. It is a great place for spaths to work because it is under the guise or mask of doing something for the good of others, or the planet, or something. there certainly are nice people who work at non-profits, too. Just that I found some of the most devious devils there, too.
20Years, indeed, non-profit organizations can be absolute hotbeds for spaths. Under the guise of altruism, they are often the WORST places for spaths to congregate! And, it’s terrible because there really are some “good” people working in many non-profits, but the predators overshadow their altruism.
Joyce pulled the plug on the con and her experiences very much remind me that predators are EVERYwhere and not always romantic, in nature.
On to you question about Bill’s options.
Bill has co-signed a number of legal financial contracts and is, therefore, liable. Sadly, too many parents do this for their children because they feel OBLIGATED to do so, and it’s never a good idea unless the adult child is 100% trustworthy and has proven that they are.
Bill may want to consult an attorney, but this would cost him money that he simply doesn’t have. There are other options:
* Contact the State’s Motor Vehicle Department to find out what options are available
* Contact all loan companies and find out what options are available, particularly WHO the “primary” is on each loan
* Shut this kid out of his life with “No Contact” because this young man is not going to satisfy his financial obligations
* Recommend counseling therapy so that Bill is able to process the facts about his own offspring
Unfortunately, there may not be any legal remedies for Bill – he signed documents and is therefore responsible for satisfying the debts. I don’t have any suggestions with regard to the student loans. He can stop paying them and, perhaps, the companies will go after the son, but I can’t really speak with any experience on this.
Also, if Bill has nothing left – no real income, no real estate, no assets, etc., then he can simply stop paying these things and contact Legal Aid for help.
I hope that others might have a far better list of options – these are just the ones that I could think of.
Brightest blessings
OxD, something just occurred to me in your article, above. The “dropping names” bit is GLARING to me because the exspath claimed to have had brief contact with a number of celebrities – bumped into someone in a bar, or auditioned for someone, etc…..
Dropping names is also something that the female ex-con spath did, frequently. She always made it sound as if she were on a first-name basis with local movers and shakers.
VERY interesting……
20years,
I hope you don’t hate me for saying this, but “stay at home dad whose wife died” reads to me like, “guy whose meal ticket died.”
I know too many of these guys who want the wife to earn a living so they don’t have to. They appear rather helpless, pitiful, good souls that the world would eat up and spit out. Actually, they are toxic. The entire story is a red flag to me, the data and the meta data.
Flag one, is the stay at home dad story.
Flag two is your emotional response to him: you want to save him.
Flag three, is the victim story. How is it he didn’t know who his son was by the time the kid is ready for college? Why didn’t he ACT and take the kid’s car from him the first time he didn’t pay his tickets?
Even if this guy is as helpless as he portrays himself, it speaks of very poor boundaries and the inability to plan. Those traits don’t usually stand alone, they’re usually the tip of the iceberg.
20, the last guy who presented himself to me as helpless and victimized by the world, was my spath. And he was the nicest, sweetest man who loved animals and children. He was worthy of all the 2nd and 3rd chances to finally make something of himself (with my help, of course).
I was living with him and still, it took several years for Mr. Nice guy to disappear and Mr. Hyde to show up. They can put on the mask as long as it takes.
So your daughters don’t like him? Why not?
20years, I’m was just like you. It was a point of pride that I didn’t choose my friends and companions by how well off they were. People like that are shallow, right? I was comfortable and liked helping people whenever I could. Well, with that attitude, I might as well paint the word victim on my forehead.
I know you will never believe me, that this man is toxic, because you love him. But you do realize that you are investing your precious time in this man who shows no signs of getting his act together. There is no future here, as long as you maintain your boundaries.
My suggestion to you is that you bail, or you move forward and give him rope. Let the boundaries drop and make yourself appear vulnerable to him. Really vulnerable. It’s only then that you will see his true nature. It will be painful, but you’ll save a lot of time. And time is all we really have, isn’t it?
I’m sorry, to have such a negative perspective. You probably really hate me by now, but I felt that if I don’t say it, then I’m guilty of not warning you, just like my parents didn’t warn me.
20 years, your friend Bill is an enabler…a good hearted one who loves his son, who is at the very least a JERK and ABUSER.
I’m not sure what Bill’s legal options are but HE needs to check with an expert, like an attorney and HE needs to decide what to do about HIS son, and HIS problems.
I admire you for not becoming mired in Bills problems or taking them on to your shoulders because I can tell that Bill’s problems are keeping you and him from enjoying a closer relationship. It is a shame.
Also, as for your teenage daughters, I wouldn’t let them determine your relationship with Bill either.
I would encourage you to tell Bill that he might benefit from seeing a professional to find out what kind of options he has so that His lying piece of shiat son gets to pay the bills and not leave them for Bill. Good luck. I admire your honest and mature stance on this.
20 years, I wrote my reply above to you before I read the others because I didn’t what to be influenced in my reply by what others said, but I think Sky has something in her reply.
I’m not adverse to EITHER parent being a “stay at home” mom or dad, so I’m just wanting to make that clear, in fact, I think that having a STAY AT HOME full time parent is a good thing especially for the first 6 or 8 years of a kid’s life.
That said, Bill doesn’t seem to be very ambitious at all, and he did sign papers that it retrospect at least, with his kid not being willing to keep up his end, turned out to be something that he couldn’t really do. (keep up the payments and live).
The “poor planning” of the couple before her death for the “death of the bread winner’ is unfortunately too common.
Is daniel his only child? Especially if so, it may be difficult for Bill to set boundaries for daniel. But I am like Sky, I don’t see this relationship going anywhere closer as long as Bill is going to continue in this situation without doing anything to call his son to task or get out of it. On the other hand, if you are content with the relationship as it is, then I think you can see what you can expect from the relationship and if that’s okay with you, then that’s your choice. If you are content with the relationship like it is, what’s wrong with that?
Skylar, you might be right. It’s not that I do not have doubts. I have and I do. I am glad for your honest assessment — a big reason I post here! People here can cut through a lot of the veils that most others cannot. I’m pondering…. and have been pondering for the past couple years.
So I’m in more of a truth-seeking mindset than a defending mindset. I might believe you that he is toxic. But I can be a slow learner. 🙂 By that I mean mostly that I have to actually open my eyes and SEE for myself, rather than just take someone’s word for it. Even if they (you) can see what I cannot quite yet see.
How might I give him rope/make myself vulnerable? If you have examples, I’m interested in hearing.
My gut has been telling me that he is a kind-hearted man, not a spath pretending (but you could very well be right that two years is not long enough to drop the mask, especially if I have these boundaries in place). The gut also has been telling me that I can’t expect anything different from what I am currently seeing (it is what it is; he is what he is). And the way I have been seeing his financial devastation after his wife died is that he did indeed fail to plan, fail to “put your own oxygen mask on before that of your child” which is not how I operate (I plan. I’m careful. I’m self responsible.) I have not wanted to condemn him for his failure to plan. Is it a red flag or tip of the iceberg, or just that we are different?
That is why my thoughts of marriage (a year ago) have now solidified into “I can never marry him.” Which is HUGE for me. I believe in love and marriage, as a sacred space where two people committed to each other can grow and share themselves with each other. The financial situation is a marriage dealbreaker for me, and it took me several months to get to that place.
But I had still thought/hoped for us to be partners. Thinking… I’m 50…. maybe that’s the best I can hope for at this age? And that I could completely protect my meager assets (which goes against my nature of sharing). But that I would have to — chances are I outlive him by a good number of years and to be self-responsible, I MUST take care of myself. (at the same time, money IS fungible, and if he owes $600 to Sallie Mae each month, that is money he cannot contribute to the household)
My daughters don’t like me to date — period. I don’t know if it is personal about Bill or not. It makes them uncomfortable. I think they like just having an all-girl household. Also, he smokes (outside) and we are not smokers. My kids find smoking disgusting and I am fine with it — I grew up around smokers. Different generation.
OK, here’s another probably screaming red flag I have been withholding: he has offered/hinted/suggested/made clear that if he lived with me, he could make my life so much easier by being my “helper” around the house — that he is so good at cleaning and running errands and home repairs that the current stress I experience from being a single parent trying to be the sole breadwinner, raise the kids, take care of the house, etc. would all be dramatically lessened because he would be there, sharing. I’ll admit while that does sound attractive/tempting to me, I also admit that I have felt for two years that he could give me a little voluntary demonstration of that (paint my bathroom, fix my broken back steps, come over and keep me company while I do chores and while he’s there, he might pitch in) — and he hasn’t. So it is all theoretical. I’m not exactly being love-bombed here. I am still very stressed and overwhelmed with being a single parent. I have suggested gently that since he seemed sad he had no money to buy me a Christmas present (no big deal) that if he wanted to, he could just come over and fix my broken lamp for me or something. 🙂 None of that has materialized. And I guess I have decided, OK, so that is pretty clear. I even offered to pay him to paint my bathroom, and he has turned me down! (it really needs painting). I am not demanding he “prove it.” I’m just opening the door, and he is not walking through it.
Lest this sound like I’m interested in using him (I know it can sound that way), that’s not it. It’s just that I am a favor-doing person; I’ll bring chicken soup or herbal teas to my friends/family when they are sick, I run errands for people, I drive other people’s kids places, and I have brought Bill food sometimes and given him small, useful gifts (toaster oven, coffee table, blanket) that he didn’t have and really needed and couldn’t afford to buy. So when he says “I’m a helper” I guess…. well, I’m a helper, and so I help, and then…. you reciprocate? When? How? Not that it is required, but if you SAY you are a helper, then I am not exactly seeing evidence.
I’m not emphasizing his wonderful qualities — he has many of them. You are right; I love him. I’m not at a point of rejecting him…
so what is your “rope” suggestion, Skylar? 🙂
Truthy, yea, this guy just made my skin crawl. After I saw what his agenda was I told him we’d have to communicate mostly by e mail because I only had a pre paid cell phone and I couldn’t afford minutes..I thought that might turn him off–“she’s too poor to get money out of” but that didn’t work either, he was persistent I will give him THAT much!
II did what Erin Brock would call “backspathing” him, in other words, use his conning to catch him in a con-TRAP.
Then once “by accident” I sent a copy of an e mail to BOTH of the e mail addresses and BOY DID HE RESPOND QUICKLY,*** “do NOT use the ABC.org address.”*** So I did get him to put in WRITING the cons, and how he WOULD go behind his boss’s back “to help you” and so on….
Then I began to wonder if the group was even legitimate, and yes, it was legitimate….so then I contacted the new exec director around New Years…he was away from his desk for about a week but when he got back and read the e mails fully, he no longer thought “it’s a misunderstanding” he saw it was DIS-honesty, so he asked me for a week to go to Texas and handle the situation in person and I gave it to him and right on schedule,, he called me back to tell me he had fired John Doe.
I informed the political person whose name had been bandied about of that…and also informed Mr. Executive director that I had told “Fred Smith” about John’s firing and that there should not be any smirch on the organization’s name because of it.
Yea, it makes me grind my teeth to think this jerk had actually probably conned some poor victim’s family out of money or more importantly HOPE—but he will move on to some other con job in some way I am sure.
Mr. Executive Director wanted to think that John Doe had “learned his lesson” and I said, “No, Mr. Director, con men don’t “learn a lesson” they just move on to another con, but at least he isn’t YOUR problem any more.”
But yea, I was NEEDING a “win” about now, and this was very satisfying in the end result. I hope it is a good omen for all of us for winning over the spaths this year!