By Joyce Alexander, RNP (retired)
Tonight on the news I heard where a local Arkansas non-profit had been scammed for over $100,000 by an employee. It is not uncommon in today’s news to hear such things.
I recently came into contact with someone involved with a non-profit group that I will call “ABC.org” because I do not believe the management of this group was in any way involved with what I think is the dishonesty of one of its employees. Here’s how I became involved with this group’s Texas representative.
In the effort to get support for my protest of my son William Patrick Alexander’s parole release, I decided to contact every “murder victim’s support” group in Texas or nationally. I Googled and found several groups that I thought would be appropriate to approach for help.
I sent each of these groups a cover letter by e-mail and attached the official police report from Ft. Worth, Texas, describing the vicious nature of the execution-style murder committed by my son when he killed 17-year old Jessica Witt in January, 1992. I asked each group to please send protest letters and gave my telephone number and a post office box address for them to contact me if they could be of any other assistance. Okay, I admit that this was probably not wise, but I did give these groups my telephone number. It was probably about midnight on a Sunday night when I sent out these e-mails.
About 12:30 a.m., my telephone rang. It was a man named “John Doe” calling from ABC.org. He had received my e mail and wanted to discuss my situation and how he could be of help. Even though I was half asleep when I answered the phone and my “gut” told me that there had to be something wrong, I spoke to him.
Red Flag Number One: A telephone call at an inappropriate time of day (or night, as the case may be).
The next day he called me again a couple of times and e-mailed me. I sent him an e-mail requesting that he not call me at that hour of the night any more. I also gave him some information about where he could obtain therapy for his PTSD that he said he had because his mother had been murdered.
Red Flag Number Two: Poor baby had PTSD ”¦ the pity ploy.
But being the helpful, compassionate person I am, I ignored this red flag as well. I suggested that he might want to read several books that we regularly recommend here for people to learn about psychopaths, Without Conscience by Bob Hare, The Sociopath Next Door, etc.
Then Red Flag Number Three: I received the following e-mail with a different e-mail address than John.Doe@ABC.org:
Please send all future emails to this address John.doe@aol.com.
Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to talk with me about such a sensitive subject.
take care,
John
toll free 1-800-XXX-XXX
P.S. I am a trained journalist. I was wondering if you would consider selling me the book and movie rights to your story at a reduced rate. (Red flag number four, but this time I was starting to listen to my gut.)
I asked him why the change in e-mail addresses and I received this answer.
Joyce,
I just want to keep all our business out of ABC.org business so please use the aol account only.
Thanks,
John
Yep, the red flags are starting to get my attention by now. So I started to ask him what his motives were. When I questioned him about why he wanted to keep information away from his boss at ABC.org, what his “private PR firm” could do for me, why he was trying to get “expense” money from me, either directly or indirectly, through the “book and movie rights” to my story, I got this response by e-mail:
Joyce,
I wanted to explain something. I – whether you believe it or not – am an honest man. And try to do things on the up and up. But not everyone is honest, as you have learned. And I have one fear. I don’t want my boss to say it is a conflict of interest for my company to represent you.
We have conflict of interest clauses in place so make sure we don’t do anything wrong. I am am afraid he will see something wrong with me representing you if you join ABC.org. I don’t know why I think this, but I have an inkling.
I honestly just want to help you and yes maybe make some of my money back and pay my expenses, but I am not and never have been motivated by money and greed. I was going to run this by my boss and see what he says. If he says I can’t represent you I was going to do it on the side and do everything through my legal name James John Doe. Everyone calls me John, but I was born with the name James – that is another story.
So you see, this has nothing to do with a scam but my fear that my boss will say that there is a conflict of interest regarding me representing you. I hope this makes sense to you, because I really want to help you even if I don’t make a dime. I want to do the right thing.
I wouldn’t get involved otherwise. We are talking many, many hours of work without pay and me bringing in other people and asking them to work without pay as well.
That is the truth. I will take a lie detector and pay for the expense if you like. But that is what I am worried about and why I don’t want any paper trial to my biz e-mail account. Because if my boss sees a conflict of interest I don’t want him to tell me “no I can’t represent you.” I am willing to take that chance. And work for you behind his back – I don’t want to do that but I will, because I think we can work together and I think I can help you.
That is all for now. And, God knows that is the truth. I will call you later today at a normal hour to discuss this further.
Thank you for your attention.
John
P.S. Feel free to phone me at XXX-XXXX. That is my home line. I have a 9 a.m. appointment that should last an hour and some afternoon and night meeting, but otherwise I am free.
Notice the various RED FLAGS in his communications ”¦ trying to convince me he is “honest” and this is “not a scam,” just to “make back his expenses.” In another e-mail, he says that the profits from my story can be used to set up a scholarship in Jessica Witt’s name. How altruistic of him.
Dropping names
In several telephone conversations with me, John mentioned a man who has a very high level position in the office of a politician in Texas. This man, I’ll call him Fred Smith, was suggested to me by Parents of Murdered Children as a “go to” person to get some publicity for my “cause.” Then my attorney also mentioned this man as a “go to” person. I had actually talked to him on the phone before John Doe mentioned Fred as his “close friend.” By now I realized that John is a scammer and that he is slinging around the name of this legitimate man, Fred Smith, and I was at a bit of a quandry about how to handle this.
I really didn’t “know” Fred Smith, except for just the one telephone call, but I wanted to let him know that his name was being bandied around by a scammer. I also figured that if John is trying to scam me, he is probably also trying to scam other survivors of murders. I hesitated to report him now, because I was afraid he would sabotage my efforts in Patrick’s parole protest somehow—maybe with Fred Smith and who knows who else. But I finally decided to go ahead. I wrote a letter to Fred Smith explaining the sequence of it all, and sent it to him, along with copies of the e-mails from John Doe.
I also contacted the national office of ABC.org and spoke to the new executive director about the problem. I sent him copies of the e-mails, and a copy of the letter I had sent to Fred Smith. I wanted the executive director to know that I was not going to hide this problem and I wasn’t going to allow him to either.
I got back an e mail saying that this was probably just a “misunderstanding.”
I spoke for over an hour the other day with Mr. Executive Director. After he had had time to completely review the e-mails, he agreed with me that this was dishonesty. He would “handle the situation” and let me know in a week how it was “handled.” I informed Mr. Executive Director that if John Doe did not lose his job, then I would be forced to go to the media, along with Fred Smith’s assistance. Fred Smith is not happy at all about his name being bandied about by someone who is trying to con money from victims via a non-profit. I don’t think ABC.org wants this kind of negative publicity.
The RED FLAGS of a con are apparent in looking at this case in retrospect:
- The man called me on the telephone at an inappropriate time of day for a business-type call.
- His assurances to me when I questioned him about the different e-mail address, the hiding things from his boss, etc.
- The Pity Ploy of “I have PTSD.”
- “I’m going to help you even if my boss says I can’t.”
Though this particular con job was an apparent attempt to find some way to gain financially from me, the basic types of red flags are the same in any kind of psychopathic con job. Whether it is business or love, the red flags are the same: The attempts to get you to trust them, even though there is evidence that they are doing something not quite on the up and up. The explaining away their dishonesty for the “greater good.” The attempts to get you to pity them or identify with them as victims, or to get you to help them. The promises to help you.
Donna’s book The Red Flags of Love Fraud outlines the various ways in which we can identify a potential lover’s psychopathic attempts at conning us. These red flags should not just be limited to romantic relationships, but applied to every relationship in all business or personal parts of our lives. Who would have thought a con man would be representing a legitimate victim’s advocate group?
I had a “gut feeling” from the first telephone call due, to the hour he called, and I should have listened to my gut then. At least, because I am familiar with the red flags, I did pick up on his con a lot sooner than I would have if I hadn’t been “tuned in.” Who knows? Without my understanding of the red flags of a con job, I might have been desperate enough to have given this man money to “help” me ”¦ after all, he was willing to take a lie detector test to prove to me how “honest” he was.
I am a bit further along in the healing process than many of the survivors of murder victims may be and I didn’t fall for the ruse that John Doe presented. Still, it sets my teeth on edge to think that maybe he has conned some unsuspecting and hurting survivor of a murder victim into “hiring” him to represent them with the police to try to solve their unsolved case, or some other “service” he purported to provide.
Regardless of what kind of relationship you had (personal, family, business, or romantic) with a psychopath, learn the RED FLAGS and apply them liberally to relationships of all kinds in your life. You may still get “zinged” from time to time, but the episodes will be shorter and less severe than if you didn’t pay attention to red flags and honor them when you see them.
Oh, and by the way, I got a call from Mr. Executive Director to tell me that John Doe no longer works at ABC.org.
Oxy,
to respond more directly to you. Daniel is his middle son. The other two are growing up to be responsible young men, respectful to their father, but in my assessment, all three kids probably had an extremely hands-on, devoted mom (despite her primary breadwinner status) and I say that because they all 3 appear to have some degree of being adrift… or maybe that is just what the sudden loss of a wonderful mom does to a child, especially if the dad is so grief-stricken he can’t get it together to step up and fill the breach. Bill has always worked — it is just that he worked evenings and stayed with the kids during the day. His wife worked days and stayed home evenings. She earned more than he did.
There are a lot of nice things between me and Bill. I know this is his problem to solve with his kid. I can’t solve it for him or make him solve it, but I wish he would because it impacts my decision on a future with him.
If he has NO moves available to him, I have to live with that and decide accordingly (it is a huge chunk of change and I absolutely would have to keep our finances separate…. I guess the “vision” of the future I have now with him, if we proceed, is that he moves in with me once my girls leave for college, he continues to do his handyman work which would bring in enough to help contribute, if his son would pay his loan. But with the debt as high as it is…. I know what would happen. Bill’s car would break down. He wouldn’t be able to afford repair or replacement, and I would not be able to stand by and watch him try to function without a vehicle. I would end up helping — with money I do not have. If I had the money — no issue. But I barely scrape by myself.
I have a nice house, car, nice things in the house, ONLY because I got some settlement in my divorces and I am able to hang onto them ONLY because I have a job that just barely pays my bills. I look a lot better off than I am. And I am much better off than Bill is.
I don’t know if Bill can get the backbone to go to Daniel and demand he pay his student loan. But I also don’t think it would do a bit of good, and I don’t know that Bill has any leverage over Daniel. I don’t know how debt collectors go after co-signers. Do they first seize the assets of the primary person (Daniel?) and THEN go after Bill? Or do they go straight to Bill, since Daniel apparently is not paying?
I just don’t think Daniel is experiencing ANY consequences for his selfishness.
Anyway…. I really appreciate your perspectives. I also didn’t want to hijack your thread about nonprofits and red flags of other sorts of conmen!
Oxy, so true: “conmen don’t learn a lesson.”
I was trying to think maybe there was SOME sort of lesson they could learn…. but NOPE. Once they see you cannot be a supply to them, they don’t waste any time in moving onto the next target. Cut their losses.
20 years, yea, don’t hold your breath til he paints your bathroom—and yea, you are right. You opened the door for him to SHOW you how helpful he would be and he DID NOT WALK THROUGH IT.
I remember a day once a few years ago when a guy I knew from my living history group came over and wanted to borrow some money from me, and my house needed painting and the guy made his living as a house painter so I said, “well instead of loaning you money which I can’t afford to do, how about if I PAY YOU TO PAINT MY HOUSE and I will even let you stay here and feed you til it is done?”
Well, that flew like a LEAD BALLOON. LOL He didn’t know how to estimate the cost of the job, and this and that, and he really just needed to BORROW the money…well…you know, I’m like you, I PREPARE and try to PLAN AHEAD financially because I have my grandparents’ “depression era mentality” of “save, save for tomorrow we may starve.” And my saving and planning is the reason that I have a paid for roof over my head. I tried to teach my sons this and unfortunately, son C though he is a very hard worker and a great employee, spends every dime he makes every week, if not on expenses, then on toys and saves nothing for a rainy day…and I no longer bail him out come a rainy day. I always made him pay it back, but I still did loan him the money to bail himself out. No more. If he were homeless I would however, drive him to the closest Salvation Army shelter if it was raining or snowing. If it was a nice day, he could walk.
I know that sounds harsh, but people must be responsible for the consequences of their LACK OF PLANNING. Lots of folks I know drive $50,000 pick up trucks, and own big new homes with lots of new furniture all on borrowed money and if they miss one pay check because of illness their whole house of cards would come tumbling down.
I have a “friend” who is a spend thrift, she and her husband who is about to lose his job due to ill health, just got a reverse mortgage on their home (their only asset) to cover huge credit card bills, and now she is going out and buying $4600 in living room furniture and a new pick up truck. I drive an old POS truck and my living room furniture is all paid for and actually old (antiques are my thing) but I have a little bit of money in the bank and I guarantee she won’t have a dime in a few months and they have no more assets to cannibalize. I used to feel sorry for her husband, whom my son and I really like, but you know, I am at a point now where I see that he ENABLES her to do this kind of thing, so, it is as much on HIS HEAD as hers.
So, what I am getting at in this rambling post is that YOUR MONETARY PLANNING and his LACK OF IT are going to be a problem in a marriage….and I am going to bet that his “helping” you would be problematic as well. IF HE AIN’T HELPING YOU NOW, he AIN’T GONNA BE when you are married.
ps If he can afford cigarettes he can afford FOOD–as a former smoker, I have NO sympathy for someone who can afford cigarettes and can’t afford food. It is a matter of PRIORITY.
20 years, you aren’t hijacking the thread, Daniel IS A CON MAN….and his dad sure is a non-profit. LOL
I agree that Bill’s lack of financial planning would and could become yours if you were married.
The thing that bothers me the most about him and your story about him is that he is NOT HELPING OUT NOW. Fixing things etc. THAT is a BIG RED FLAG to me. If he is such a good friend, and so kind hearted, and so on, he would WANT to help you..the fact he wouldn’t paint your bathroom even for pay is a big red flag to me anyway.
20years, if these Sallie Mae loans are federally guaranteed student loans it might be an option to request a percentage of income payment plan. It’s not difficult at all to go through the process. My eldest son is in his second year of IBR student loan payments because the economy is still so bad.
http://studentaid.ed.gov/repay-loans/understand/plans/income-based
Private Sallie Mae loans are different. What about consolidation to reduce payments?
This is going to mean the son who avoids him will have to get involved in the process too. If it was my kid and I was doing without food in order to repay student loans, I’d be sitting on his damned doorstep every day waiting for him to get home.
OxD, I agree that affording tobacco means affording food – I’m an example of hoarding tobacco when I was able to! ROTFLMAO!!! I’m actually rolling my own using tobacco that I had stockpiled over a year ago.
20Years, there are some things about your description of this relationship that have me on serious edge. The absence of ambition is the first issue. Your daughter’s don’t particularly like this guy, and that’s the next issue – normally, children WANT to see their parent happy, especially if they know what that parent has survived. Next, Daniel is a user and abuser and his father is enabling him (wilfully so). Finally, you’re describing possible future scenarios that invovle RESCUING Bill.
I can completely identify with your desire to enjoy a healthy, loving relationship, and you DESERVE this for yourself. But, your own words said that you APPEAR to be better off than you actually are – appearances mean a GREAT deal to people with an agenda.
I’m beginning to float more in the direction of observing that Bill, his family, his issues, and everything surrounding this situation is 100% toxic for you, personally. You’ve come TOO far in your recovery to allow another toxic person to damage you, whether they’re spath or just toxic.
The best thing that I can offer is this: CAUTION. Something is not right about this man’s situation, and it’s worrisome.
Brightest blessings
HA! HA! HA! Good one, Oxy. 🙂
So maybe I have ALREADY given him the rope 😉
I don’t find your attitude harsh at all. It is very similar to mine. I’m just very focused on being self sufficient so that I am not a burden to anyone. Once I achieve that, then and only then am I in a position to help anyone.
I agree about the cigarettes. I haven’t been a smoker and I know they are hard to quit, but they are SO expensive — easily 50 bucks a week. If it were me, I’d find a way.
He also gives $25 a month to the Salvation Army because he believes he should be charitable. Meanwhile, he eats saltines.
And I am just noticing that I do things very differently. Well, like I said, maybe I’m a slow learner. 🙂
DawnG, I appreciate that information. I can’t remember if the loans are private or not.
I totally agree with you about sitting on the son’s doorstep! Bill won’t do that, but I sure would, if it were my kid who wasn’t paying and was avoiding all contact with me.
Sigh.
Truthspeak, I appreciate your words of caution. I am now thinking to myself, I have placed very firm boundaries around myself and my household — I say it is because my daughters don’t accept the relationship — but I think there is also an element of hesitation or resistance on my part. You know how they say, something that “gives me pause.” And the daughters are a convenient and plausible excuse to buy me time. I’m pretty sure if I didn’t have my girls living with me, he would already have moved in. I have wanted VERY MUCH to have seen some of these issues (red flags?) resolving… and they haven’t been really resolving. Some of them have, but there are big ones remaining.
20years, ((((BIG HUGS)))))
You know, my son keeps telling me that he wants me to “find somebody” and I keep telling him that it just ain’t in MY deck of cards. It’s not that I wouldn’t be able to appreciate a companion, but I have so many, many issues that have to be resolved (or, even addressed) before I even entertain the notion that I’ll be plant-food before I get to that point. So, I’m resigned to my solitude.
Perhaps, your personal “hesistation” hasn’t been without tremendous merit, 20years. That Bill actually gives $25 to charity and can’t afford a pot to piss in or a window to through it OUT of is a screaming, flapping, waving “Red Flag” to me. I’ve given to charity in the past, and I’m in such a state that I’m having to reach OUT to charity in order to survive. Literally, not metaphorically. And, that simply does NOT make sense to me.
I can’t tell you what you “should” do, 20years. But, I know what I would do, and I would be very nice and gentle about it – no drama/trauma or accusations. Just a succinct, “You know, this isn’t going to work out for me. Take care! Bye-bye, then.”
Hugs and hugs and brightest blessings