By Joyce Alexander, RNP (retired)
Tonight on the news I heard where a local Arkansas non-profit had been scammed for over $100,000 by an employee. It is not uncommon in today’s news to hear such things.
I recently came into contact with someone involved with a non-profit group that I will call “ABC.org” because I do not believe the management of this group was in any way involved with what I think is the dishonesty of one of its employees. Here’s how I became involved with this group’s Texas representative.
In the effort to get support for my protest of my son William Patrick Alexander’s parole release, I decided to contact every “murder victim’s support” group in Texas or nationally. I Googled and found several groups that I thought would be appropriate to approach for help.
I sent each of these groups a cover letter by e-mail and attached the official police report from Ft. Worth, Texas, describing the vicious nature of the execution-style murder committed by my son when he killed 17-year old Jessica Witt in January, 1992. I asked each group to please send protest letters and gave my telephone number and a post office box address for them to contact me if they could be of any other assistance. Okay, I admit that this was probably not wise, but I did give these groups my telephone number. It was probably about midnight on a Sunday night when I sent out these e-mails.
About 12:30 a.m., my telephone rang. It was a man named “John Doe” calling from ABC.org. He had received my e mail and wanted to discuss my situation and how he could be of help. Even though I was half asleep when I answered the phone and my “gut” told me that there had to be something wrong, I spoke to him.
Red Flag Number One: A telephone call at an inappropriate time of day (or night, as the case may be).
The next day he called me again a couple of times and e-mailed me. I sent him an e-mail requesting that he not call me at that hour of the night any more. I also gave him some information about where he could obtain therapy for his PTSD that he said he had because his mother had been murdered.
Red Flag Number Two: Poor baby had PTSD ”¦ the pity ploy.
But being the helpful, compassionate person I am, I ignored this red flag as well. I suggested that he might want to read several books that we regularly recommend here for people to learn about psychopaths, Without Conscience by Bob Hare, The Sociopath Next Door, etc.
Then Red Flag Number Three: I received the following e-mail with a different e-mail address than John.Doe@ABC.org:
Please send all future emails to this address John.doe@aol.com.
Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to talk with me about such a sensitive subject.
take care,
John
toll free 1-800-XXX-XXX
P.S. I am a trained journalist. I was wondering if you would consider selling me the book and movie rights to your story at a reduced rate. (Red flag number four, but this time I was starting to listen to my gut.)
I asked him why the change in e-mail addresses and I received this answer.
Joyce,
I just want to keep all our business out of ABC.org business so please use the aol account only.
Thanks,
John
Yep, the red flags are starting to get my attention by now. So I started to ask him what his motives were. When I questioned him about why he wanted to keep information away from his boss at ABC.org, what his “private PR firm” could do for me, why he was trying to get “expense” money from me, either directly or indirectly, through the “book and movie rights” to my story, I got this response by e-mail:
Joyce,
I wanted to explain something. I – whether you believe it or not – am an honest man. And try to do things on the up and up. But not everyone is honest, as you have learned. And I have one fear. I don’t want my boss to say it is a conflict of interest for my company to represent you.
We have conflict of interest clauses in place so make sure we don’t do anything wrong. I am am afraid he will see something wrong with me representing you if you join ABC.org. I don’t know why I think this, but I have an inkling.
I honestly just want to help you and yes maybe make some of my money back and pay my expenses, but I am not and never have been motivated by money and greed. I was going to run this by my boss and see what he says. If he says I can’t represent you I was going to do it on the side and do everything through my legal name James John Doe. Everyone calls me John, but I was born with the name James – that is another story.
So you see, this has nothing to do with a scam but my fear that my boss will say that there is a conflict of interest regarding me representing you. I hope this makes sense to you, because I really want to help you even if I don’t make a dime. I want to do the right thing.
I wouldn’t get involved otherwise. We are talking many, many hours of work without pay and me bringing in other people and asking them to work without pay as well.
That is the truth. I will take a lie detector and pay for the expense if you like. But that is what I am worried about and why I don’t want any paper trial to my biz e-mail account. Because if my boss sees a conflict of interest I don’t want him to tell me “no I can’t represent you.” I am willing to take that chance. And work for you behind his back – I don’t want to do that but I will, because I think we can work together and I think I can help you.
That is all for now. And, God knows that is the truth. I will call you later today at a normal hour to discuss this further.
Thank you for your attention.
John
P.S. Feel free to phone me at XXX-XXXX. That is my home line. I have a 9 a.m. appointment that should last an hour and some afternoon and night meeting, but otherwise I am free.
Notice the various RED FLAGS in his communications ”¦ trying to convince me he is “honest” and this is “not a scam,” just to “make back his expenses.” In another e-mail, he says that the profits from my story can be used to set up a scholarship in Jessica Witt’s name. How altruistic of him.
Dropping names
In several telephone conversations with me, John mentioned a man who has a very high level position in the office of a politician in Texas. This man, I’ll call him Fred Smith, was suggested to me by Parents of Murdered Children as a “go to” person to get some publicity for my “cause.” Then my attorney also mentioned this man as a “go to” person. I had actually talked to him on the phone before John Doe mentioned Fred as his “close friend.” By now I realized that John is a scammer and that he is slinging around the name of this legitimate man, Fred Smith, and I was at a bit of a quandry about how to handle this.
I really didn’t “know” Fred Smith, except for just the one telephone call, but I wanted to let him know that his name was being bandied around by a scammer. I also figured that if John is trying to scam me, he is probably also trying to scam other survivors of murders. I hesitated to report him now, because I was afraid he would sabotage my efforts in Patrick’s parole protest somehow—maybe with Fred Smith and who knows who else. But I finally decided to go ahead. I wrote a letter to Fred Smith explaining the sequence of it all, and sent it to him, along with copies of the e-mails from John Doe.
I also contacted the national office of ABC.org and spoke to the new executive director about the problem. I sent him copies of the e-mails, and a copy of the letter I had sent to Fred Smith. I wanted the executive director to know that I was not going to hide this problem and I wasn’t going to allow him to either.
I got back an e mail saying that this was probably just a “misunderstanding.”
I spoke for over an hour the other day with Mr. Executive Director. After he had had time to completely review the e-mails, he agreed with me that this was dishonesty. He would “handle the situation” and let me know in a week how it was “handled.” I informed Mr. Executive Director that if John Doe did not lose his job, then I would be forced to go to the media, along with Fred Smith’s assistance. Fred Smith is not happy at all about his name being bandied about by someone who is trying to con money from victims via a non-profit. I don’t think ABC.org wants this kind of negative publicity.
The RED FLAGS of a con are apparent in looking at this case in retrospect:
- The man called me on the telephone at an inappropriate time of day for a business-type call.
- His assurances to me when I questioned him about the different e-mail address, the hiding things from his boss, etc.
- The Pity Ploy of “I have PTSD.”
- “I’m going to help you even if my boss says I can’t.”
Though this particular con job was an apparent attempt to find some way to gain financially from me, the basic types of red flags are the same in any kind of psychopathic con job. Whether it is business or love, the red flags are the same: The attempts to get you to trust them, even though there is evidence that they are doing something not quite on the up and up. The explaining away their dishonesty for the “greater good.” The attempts to get you to pity them or identify with them as victims, or to get you to help them. The promises to help you.
Donna’s book The Red Flags of Love Fraud outlines the various ways in which we can identify a potential lover’s psychopathic attempts at conning us. These red flags should not just be limited to romantic relationships, but applied to every relationship in all business or personal parts of our lives. Who would have thought a con man would be representing a legitimate victim’s advocate group?
I had a “gut feeling” from the first telephone call due, to the hour he called, and I should have listened to my gut then. At least, because I am familiar with the red flags, I did pick up on his con a lot sooner than I would have if I hadn’t been “tuned in.” Who knows? Without my understanding of the red flags of a con job, I might have been desperate enough to have given this man money to “help” me ”¦ after all, he was willing to take a lie detector test to prove to me how “honest” he was.
I am a bit further along in the healing process than many of the survivors of murder victims may be and I didn’t fall for the ruse that John Doe presented. Still, it sets my teeth on edge to think that maybe he has conned some unsuspecting and hurting survivor of a murder victim into “hiring” him to represent them with the police to try to solve their unsolved case, or some other “service” he purported to provide.
Regardless of what kind of relationship you had (personal, family, business, or romantic) with a psychopath, learn the RED FLAGS and apply them liberally to relationships of all kinds in your life. You may still get “zinged” from time to time, but the episodes will be shorter and less severe than if you didn’t pay attention to red flags and honor them when you see them.
Oh, and by the way, I got a call from Mr. Executive Director to tell me that John Doe no longer works at ABC.org.
20 years, money issues are BIG issues….and so is the “giving” thing. If he is so “chairitable” then one way you show CHARITY is to HELP YOUR FRIENDS–and fixing things for you to help you out is a great way to say “happy birthday” or “Merry Christmas”
My son C, after he spent all his money for toys for himself had no money and when Christmas came he SUDDENLY had become a believer in a religion that did not celebrate Christmas, so he gave us NOTHING…but he DID ACCEPT our gifts to him. LOL
My sons and I don’t do a “big gift exchange” anyway, because we aren’t wealthy and we have pretty much everything we want and need, but we do find nice SPECIAL gifts or make them even, so we are not talking about a bunch of big dollar gifts here, but $20 or less per person.
So Bill’s CHOICES of how to spend his money…$50 a week on tobacco= a couple of hundred per month $200+$25 for charity = plenty of money to buy good food if **IF** food was IMPORTANT TO HIM. How he spends his money and his TIME is what is important to him, no matter what he SAYS.
WHEN PEOPLE SHOW YOU WHAT THEY ARE, BELIEVE THEM.
I think I can predict without a crystal ball that if he ain’t painting your bathroom NOW before the nuptuials he ain’t gonna paint it afterward.
20 years, I’m glad you’re not offended. whew!
You basically already gave him rope, he took it and hung himself but you didn’t notice. You have given him opportunities to HELP you but he doesn’t want that. He wants to move in with you and you aren’t going to get what you want until he gets what he wants. You asked about rope. But this made me realize that your rope might be different from my rope. What would you need to see for you to be convinced that he is parasitical?
I’ve known MANY MANY toxic people and I’d have to say that none of them are alike. Even though ENVY is the root of spathy, it looks different in different people.
Because your previous spath was so ambitious, you see Bill as harmless, since he doesn’t seem to care about winning. But that’s how some spaths are. My spath uncle is that way, my spath brother is that way, the spathy -house husband acquaintance is that way. They find ways to make themselves seem pathetic until someone FINALLY has to step in and rescue them. (except for the househusband, he landed that job by getting a responsible, 48 year old woman pregnant with her first child.) Its not that they can’t help themselves, they just don’t want to.
Maybe Bill is not a spath. Some people genuinely have a difficult time pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps. But then, the examples you gave where you offered him opportunities to help and he didn’t… that indicates that he doesn’t get pleasure from making YOU happy. When you go out and he can’t pay for your food, that’s a bad sign. If he has $10 extra every blue moon, why doesn’t he save it until he has $10 more? Then he can pay for your food too.
You have to distill the red flags down to their very essence. Otherwise you get so many red flags that you can’t make sense of any of them.
Someone who doesn’t want to take responsibility can do it in a myriad of ways: slacking, lying, cheating, acting pitiful, not planning etc… are all different behaviors that represent parasitical behavior.
Also, realize that love is a numbing agent that parasites use so you can’t feel the bleeding. If you want to see things clearly, remove the love from the equation.
Think about the future, what if he needs money for an operation? Are you going to say no? What if he becomes homeless? Are you going to let him live under a bridge? Face it. This isn’t going to get better until YOU take responsibility for him because he has shown that he isn’t capable of making things better for himself.
The thing that these pitiful spaths have in common is this: They are sweet to you until you take them under your wing. Then they sabotage covertly. ALL of the women who have decided that they can take care of this man, who deserves to be taken care of, or who think that this man can improve himself if she just helps him along, begin to feel very unhappy and they don’t know why. What the pitiful creature wanted, wasn’t just a free ride (which the woman was willing to provide), they wanted to undermine the strength that made her want to help him. These creatures ENVIED the woman’s strength and by subtle, passive aggressive behavior, they slowly erode that strength.
So I guess the only rope I can suggest is that you let him move in with you and allow him to believe you are giving him access to ALL your resources (while keeping some hidden away for emergencies), then watch as your life begins to crumble, emotionally and financially.
I doubt you’re going to do that.
20years, you are 50, that is NOT too old to find a loving companion and partner, UNLESS, you spend your time with a pitiful creature who is so stingy that he won’t even paint your bathroom for you. I’m sorry you love him 🙁 but you have to love YOU more.
Edit:
I took so long to write this post that I didn’t see all the other responses you got. Yeah, you did already give him some rope and he hung himself, and now you see it. The giving $25 to charity each month is a SCREAMING RED FLAG. He can’t take you out but he gives to charity? Um, he’s doing it to make himself look good in your eyes.
The minute my son declared he would have trouble repaying student loans I said, “Ok, let’s look for solutions”. I know everyone is not like me and that’s ok. But still…your guy sounds like such an Eeyore. Do you get frustrated with him?
As I was reading all of your responses, I had this odd feeling like I’m having y’all over for coffee or something, and having this very helpful conversation. Or a seminar. Thanks for the hugs, too. 🙂 I seriously can visualize all of you sitting in my living room right now.
You all have given me such good thoughts and insights to ponder — I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.
Skylar, I was struck by your example of the parasite using love as a numbing agent. Because that is the thing that does make this hard. Also, that I have been with him two years, so it is not a recent bonding. There is that invisible bond.
But I really do HEAR what you are saying about them turning on you later, undermining our strengths.
Truthspeak, I like how you put it, “you know, this isn’t going to work out for me.” I am not rushing out to do that just yet. Just getting my mind around it.
Oxy, as you said, “WHEN PEOPLE SHOW YOU WHAT THEY ARE, BELIEVE THEM.” You are right that talk is cheap.
And that if he can afford $225 a month for tobacco/charity, he can afford food. I know if he moved in with me, he would still smoke and donate to Salvation army, and not contribute towards the food budget.
Yes, it is true that he spends money on the things that are important to HIM.
DawnG, “lets look for solutions” is my approach too. And yes, I do get frustrated/disappointed.
OXy, OH MY that mail is so spathy… Whomever would bring up ‘this isn’t a scam’, meanwhile suggesting to you to become an accomplice in his dishonest (isolation), and ‘I am an honest man’ (euhm… if you are so honest, then why hiding your actions from you boss?) and ‘I’ll take a lie detector test to prove it to you’ is so abnormally over the top. Which normal, human being ever does that? I’ve never said ‘I’ll take a lie detector test’ if it will ease your peace of mind about my character, because I KNOW I speak the thruth and never propose others to be dishonest in order to help them.
TOWANDA on the quick detection as well as the backspath!
Sky, I’m with you on your reasoning about this helpless man. There’s something fishy about it. And I would agree 20 years that not helping you out when he claims to be such a handyman and a people helper is a red flag. And a gift doesn’t always need to be a bought one. Last year, I burned 3 cd’s for my best friend’s birthday. I possessed the music, I had the empty cd’s… it just required time and selecting songs. He loves them. What did I do for my father? There was a radio program that featured a ‘papa was a rolling stone’ concept… People could send in a story on a band or song they discovered because it was their father’s music… if they liked it they’d call you, have a 5 min nostalgic radio interview over the phone and then play the record. So, I made sure my dad would listen to the radio at the right time to the appropriate channel. It brought tears to his eyes. There are so many ways in which to show someone you love them, that can be very touching and cost you nada. And if he loved you, he would do such things, and that would include doing what he claims to be good at!
When people claim one thing, but do not do what they claim… that’s a giant red flag!
Bill is a kind-hearted, lazy, irresponsible, but lovable slug. Not gonna change. He played house-husband for years. Do you really believe he painted the bathroom at home when his wife suggested it was time? Ahhhh, no. He probably promised to do it next week, and then the week after…..maybe that’s where Daniel learned his tactics, hmmmmm.
Anyway, if you are clear about what you’re getting, and ok with it, go ahead. I just think you will be getting a good-natured lounge lizard. jm2cents.
darwinsmom, what lovely gifts!
Yes, I agree “doing what you are good at” — I think that’s why my gifts tend to be food-related. 😉
Yep, I love that Maya Angelou quote.
20 years,
Bill sounds like he likes playing the victim and martyr roles. Some people can’t seem to break free of those roles because it has been their way of dealing with the world their entire life. I’m sure Bill has a loving side to him that you fell in love with. But you must remain grounded in reality, as hard as it is. It took me a long time to learn that lesson but since I have, my life is so much more peaceful.
You are a caring woman and that is a positive attribute. Just realize that Bill is choosing to remain a victim/martyr and you can’t save him.
Kim frederick, actually I saw PROOF (photographic) of the before and after of ALL of the work Bill did around his house — he turned an unfinished attic into a master bedroom suite. He completely renovated their kitchen, upgrading it with beautiful cabinetry and detailing. I know enough details to know that indeed, it was Bill who did all that work.
But…. I do know other stories of his spending hours in the basement, working with a model train set up, for SEVERAL years after he had radical cancer surgery/radiation, and that his wife got pretty fed up with the amount of time he spent down there and when he finally emerged from the basement to return to helping make a living, her response was, “Thank God, finally!” (it was at this point that he re-did the kitchen).
Both of these sides of him, he told me. I saw photographs of the model train set up (elaborate), too. I don’t think he was spinning a tale — there is ALWAYS some pity inherent in a cancer survivor’s story. He’s not making up the stage 4 cancer 20-some years ago — it definitely happened.
But it can still be true that he is a kind-hearted, lazy, irresponsible, lovable slug, not going to change.