By Joyce Alexander, RNP (retired)
Tonight on the news I heard where a local Arkansas non-profit had been scammed for over $100,000 by an employee. It is not uncommon in today’s news to hear such things.
I recently came into contact with someone involved with a non-profit group that I will call “ABC.org” because I do not believe the management of this group was in any way involved with what I think is the dishonesty of one of its employees. Here’s how I became involved with this group’s Texas representative.
In the effort to get support for my protest of my son William Patrick Alexander’s parole release, I decided to contact every “murder victim’s support” group in Texas or nationally. I Googled and found several groups that I thought would be appropriate to approach for help.
I sent each of these groups a cover letter by e-mail and attached the official police report from Ft. Worth, Texas, describing the vicious nature of the execution-style murder committed by my son when he killed 17-year old Jessica Witt in January, 1992. I asked each group to please send protest letters and gave my telephone number and a post office box address for them to contact me if they could be of any other assistance. Okay, I admit that this was probably not wise, but I did give these groups my telephone number. It was probably about midnight on a Sunday night when I sent out these e-mails.
About 12:30 a.m., my telephone rang. It was a man named “John Doe” calling from ABC.org. He had received my e mail and wanted to discuss my situation and how he could be of help. Even though I was half asleep when I answered the phone and my “gut” told me that there had to be something wrong, I spoke to him.
Red Flag Number One: A telephone call at an inappropriate time of day (or night, as the case may be).
The next day he called me again a couple of times and e-mailed me. I sent him an e-mail requesting that he not call me at that hour of the night any more. I also gave him some information about where he could obtain therapy for his PTSD that he said he had because his mother had been murdered.
Red Flag Number Two: Poor baby had PTSD ”¦ the pity ploy.
But being the helpful, compassionate person I am, I ignored this red flag as well. I suggested that he might want to read several books that we regularly recommend here for people to learn about psychopaths, Without Conscience by Bob Hare, The Sociopath Next Door, etc.
Then Red Flag Number Three: I received the following e-mail with a different e-mail address than John.Doe@ABC.org:
Please send all future emails to this address John.doe@aol.com.
Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to talk with me about such a sensitive subject.
take care,
John
toll free 1-800-XXX-XXX
P.S. I am a trained journalist. I was wondering if you would consider selling me the book and movie rights to your story at a reduced rate. (Red flag number four, but this time I was starting to listen to my gut.)
I asked him why the change in e-mail addresses and I received this answer.
Joyce,
I just want to keep all our business out of ABC.org business so please use the aol account only.
Thanks,
John
Yep, the red flags are starting to get my attention by now. So I started to ask him what his motives were. When I questioned him about why he wanted to keep information away from his boss at ABC.org, what his “private PR firm” could do for me, why he was trying to get “expense” money from me, either directly or indirectly, through the “book and movie rights” to my story, I got this response by e-mail:
Joyce,
I wanted to explain something. I – whether you believe it or not – am an honest man. And try to do things on the up and up. But not everyone is honest, as you have learned. And I have one fear. I don’t want my boss to say it is a conflict of interest for my company to represent you.
We have conflict of interest clauses in place so make sure we don’t do anything wrong. I am am afraid he will see something wrong with me representing you if you join ABC.org. I don’t know why I think this, but I have an inkling.
I honestly just want to help you and yes maybe make some of my money back and pay my expenses, but I am not and never have been motivated by money and greed. I was going to run this by my boss and see what he says. If he says I can’t represent you I was going to do it on the side and do everything through my legal name James John Doe. Everyone calls me John, but I was born with the name James – that is another story.
So you see, this has nothing to do with a scam but my fear that my boss will say that there is a conflict of interest regarding me representing you. I hope this makes sense to you, because I really want to help you even if I don’t make a dime. I want to do the right thing.
I wouldn’t get involved otherwise. We are talking many, many hours of work without pay and me bringing in other people and asking them to work without pay as well.
That is the truth. I will take a lie detector and pay for the expense if you like. But that is what I am worried about and why I don’t want any paper trial to my biz e-mail account. Because if my boss sees a conflict of interest I don’t want him to tell me “no I can’t represent you.” I am willing to take that chance. And work for you behind his back – I don’t want to do that but I will, because I think we can work together and I think I can help you.
That is all for now. And, God knows that is the truth. I will call you later today at a normal hour to discuss this further.
Thank you for your attention.
John
P.S. Feel free to phone me at XXX-XXXX. That is my home line. I have a 9 a.m. appointment that should last an hour and some afternoon and night meeting, but otherwise I am free.
Notice the various RED FLAGS in his communications ”¦ trying to convince me he is “honest” and this is “not a scam,” just to “make back his expenses.” In another e-mail, he says that the profits from my story can be used to set up a scholarship in Jessica Witt’s name. How altruistic of him.
Dropping names
In several telephone conversations with me, John mentioned a man who has a very high level position in the office of a politician in Texas. This man, I’ll call him Fred Smith, was suggested to me by Parents of Murdered Children as a “go to” person to get some publicity for my “cause.” Then my attorney also mentioned this man as a “go to” person. I had actually talked to him on the phone before John Doe mentioned Fred as his “close friend.” By now I realized that John is a scammer and that he is slinging around the name of this legitimate man, Fred Smith, and I was at a bit of a quandry about how to handle this.
I really didn’t “know” Fred Smith, except for just the one telephone call, but I wanted to let him know that his name was being bandied around by a scammer. I also figured that if John is trying to scam me, he is probably also trying to scam other survivors of murders. I hesitated to report him now, because I was afraid he would sabotage my efforts in Patrick’s parole protest somehow—maybe with Fred Smith and who knows who else. But I finally decided to go ahead. I wrote a letter to Fred Smith explaining the sequence of it all, and sent it to him, along with copies of the e-mails from John Doe.
I also contacted the national office of ABC.org and spoke to the new executive director about the problem. I sent him copies of the e-mails, and a copy of the letter I had sent to Fred Smith. I wanted the executive director to know that I was not going to hide this problem and I wasn’t going to allow him to either.
I got back an e mail saying that this was probably just a “misunderstanding.”
I spoke for over an hour the other day with Mr. Executive Director. After he had had time to completely review the e-mails, he agreed with me that this was dishonesty. He would “handle the situation” and let me know in a week how it was “handled.” I informed Mr. Executive Director that if John Doe did not lose his job, then I would be forced to go to the media, along with Fred Smith’s assistance. Fred Smith is not happy at all about his name being bandied about by someone who is trying to con money from victims via a non-profit. I don’t think ABC.org wants this kind of negative publicity.
The RED FLAGS of a con are apparent in looking at this case in retrospect:
- The man called me on the telephone at an inappropriate time of day for a business-type call.
- His assurances to me when I questioned him about the different e-mail address, the hiding things from his boss, etc.
- The Pity Ploy of “I have PTSD.”
- “I’m going to help you even if my boss says I can’t.”
Though this particular con job was an apparent attempt to find some way to gain financially from me, the basic types of red flags are the same in any kind of psychopathic con job. Whether it is business or love, the red flags are the same: The attempts to get you to trust them, even though there is evidence that they are doing something not quite on the up and up. The explaining away their dishonesty for the “greater good.” The attempts to get you to pity them or identify with them as victims, or to get you to help them. The promises to help you.
Donna’s book The Red Flags of Love Fraud outlines the various ways in which we can identify a potential lover’s psychopathic attempts at conning us. These red flags should not just be limited to romantic relationships, but applied to every relationship in all business or personal parts of our lives. Who would have thought a con man would be representing a legitimate victim’s advocate group?
I had a “gut feeling” from the first telephone call due, to the hour he called, and I should have listened to my gut then. At least, because I am familiar with the red flags, I did pick up on his con a lot sooner than I would have if I hadn’t been “tuned in.” Who knows? Without my understanding of the red flags of a con job, I might have been desperate enough to have given this man money to “help” me ”¦ after all, he was willing to take a lie detector test to prove to me how “honest” he was.
I am a bit further along in the healing process than many of the survivors of murder victims may be and I didn’t fall for the ruse that John Doe presented. Still, it sets my teeth on edge to think that maybe he has conned some unsuspecting and hurting survivor of a murder victim into “hiring” him to represent them with the police to try to solve their unsolved case, or some other “service” he purported to provide.
Regardless of what kind of relationship you had (personal, family, business, or romantic) with a psychopath, learn the RED FLAGS and apply them liberally to relationships of all kinds in your life. You may still get “zinged” from time to time, but the episodes will be shorter and less severe than if you didn’t pay attention to red flags and honor them when you see them.
Oh, and by the way, I got a call from Mr. Executive Director to tell me that John Doe no longer works at ABC.org.
Newlife, thank you, it was a “win” and I NEEDED a “win” about then. Glad I could at least get him out of THAT noon profit where he was fed a stream of victims to pluck as “clients” for his “firm”—
And frankly I was afraid that the group would not respond the way they did, or the executive director. That was why I sent the letter and e mails to the political guy, because I wanted the director to know that I wasn’t going to sit still and keep it under raps, that the ‘word” was already out to someone who was very important in the non profit community in which they operated.
So, knowing that Mr. Big Shot already knew I think may have helped Mr. Executive director come to the “proper” conclusion that John Doe needed to be fired from his half time position with the group. I didn’t want to leave The Executive Director much wiggle room if I could help it.
I also assured him I didn’t want to smear his organization in the media UNLESS I HAD TO…so that my motive was simply to get the DISHONEST PERSON out of their group…so he couldn’t hurt someone else, or try to.
It was somewhat a stress but at the same time, I felt vindicated and that I may have done some good for someone who would have fallen for this creep’s promises. I could just imagine someone whose family member was murdered and the cops weren’t prosecuting the person and this guy offered to help them “solve” the case, for expense money of course.
But taking down one psychopath or con man is like trying to take down the Rocky Mountains with a tea spoon. Gonna take a long time.
20years:
So many posters have said what I would say to you. But here is one thought you might really consider.
As long as you stay with him and worry about him and help him, you are not focusing on what’s wrong with you. (I am not perfect and I am dealing with my own “carp”, so that’s not a judgment on you, by any means).
The other thought is that as long as you maintain a relationship with him, you are taking yourself out of the market for a good, responsible man WORTHY of you, not some helpless, hopeless slug with a “good heart”. I guess you have to ask yourself, is that what I really want? That this guy is a stop-gap so that I can heal from my OWN trauma, because deep down I know there is no future in it and I’m not ready to be in a truly interdependent and committed relationship? But I don’t want to be alone and he’s better than nothing? That I can “handle” him but don’t feel confident I can handle a decent guy where I would have to step up and be a real partner, because he’s a real partner back to me?
The only reason I am bringing this up is that I have the opposite “problem” right now. I have a nice, decent, responsible, hard-working, honest, financially well-off guy who is pursuing me and is very interested in being more than just friends. Who wants to introduce me to his friends and family, who wants to spend time with me, etc. I don’t. I think he is boring, about as exciting as a bowl of mashed potatoes. Not attracted to him at all. What the heck is wrong with me?
So I am asking myself the very questions that I posed to you. You bringing this up is very timely to me. I KNOW I don’t want the kind of guy you’re with right now (again, no judgments here) but when a decent guy falls in my lap, I’m soooo not interested. Asking myself these questions is forcing me to look at MYSELF. What, exactly, is it that I do want?
When I come up with answers, I will let you know…
20Years
I am thinking your guy is avoidant. All he says is probably true, about his victimhood. He seems to use his victimhood to avoid setting boundries. This shouts to me of someone’s emotionally unhealthy coping mechanisms from childhood abuse. I think his wife was a rescuer, they had three kids, and she was the strong one. Life fell apart without mom for everyone b/c as the strong one, your guy had someone to take responsibility while he would not. His son took advantage of his passivity. From your posts, it sounds to me that your guy is suffering from dysthmia.
I do NOT think he is using a pity ploy, or trying to be spath. I don’t think he’s a bad person. I think he is lost in his dysthmia depression, lost in his avoidance, lost b/c of his unresolved childhood abuse.
You can be like his wife and be the responsible one, but I don’t recommend continuing with him unless you want to be his therapist for the rest of his life. It’s not a partnership relationship. He’s not emotionally available. Don’t get sucked into what He MIGHT do; stay in the here and now with what he IS DOING. (women get too caught up in a man’s possibilities and get trapped by his realities.) And this is key: There is NO way for you to avoid being pulled into his lifestyle of avoidance and depression. He’s adapted this way his ENTIRE LIFE, he didn’t change for his wife or kids, he’s not going to change it now. No way to avoid the drama of his son, who… might have inherited the abusive exploitative personality of the parent who abused your guy?
Just my opinion, after reading the opinons of others….
Best, Katy
DawnG:
Wow…
Talk about control!! WTF is wrong with these people? Oh, that’s right, they’re sociopaths! Asked and answered,
PS 20Years:
Maybe his wife died because she was tired of trying to take care of 4 grown men/perfectly healthy teenagers. It must have been pretty exhausting. Maybe he wants you to become her…that makes me shudder!! And as long as you stay with him, that possibility is always there.
There are a lot of good guys. Everybody has issues, you just have to decide which ones you want to take on.
Dawn,
That’s horrible. I’m sorry if my joke triggered bad memories.
Spaths are known for being controlling even to the point of wanting to control our food intake, our weight, and how we look.
At first my spath derided me for being an exercise freak. Then one day, as he was giving me a hard time about it, I saw his brain flip and he decided he liked it.
I know he was envious when I got attention from men. Then, I think, he figured out that if he couldn’t stop me from getting attention, he would make sure that attention became envy, which was easily turned to hatred.
They can turn your strengths OR your weaknesses against you. The basic roots of the spath can appear in many guises.
Dawn, how awful!
Sky said: “They can turn your strengths OR your weaknesses against you.”
I see it as if they take the essence of ourselves, mold it into a gun, then gently put it in our hands and have it point to ourselves so we shoot ourselves in the head.
Skylar, thank you for being concerned! I am not triggered by your post. I was totally getting how a controller could force a person to either gain or lose weight.
He did try to control every part of my appearance, but most of it didn’t stick. I was still coloring the gray out of my hair and wearing makeup even though he hated it. The food was a different story. He nagged and nagged and I gave in just so he would STOP harassing me. I was making myself ill! But, here’s the weirdest part – he was making himself sick too while he was eating right along with me. He gained even more weight than I did. The ripped abs were gone and he started looking like a middle aged, paunchy beer drinker. I heard a few months later that he had been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes.
Hi all
I took a break from LF for a while simply to calm my mind from the horror of some of the stories. My PTSD gets triggered still after five and a half years out and sometimes I feel healing is so slow.
My son also bought me a new computer that allowed me to watch you tube etc and I tried to distract my mind for a while but have always gravitated towards understanding psychopathy. I think I have watched over and over again all the videos regarding it. It’s like I am trying to get my right brain engaged again.
For the past week or so I have felt compelled to start reading LF again and it is amazing how many AHA’s I am getting. Perhaps this is a sign of healing as before I was too triggered to relate.
What made me post is worry about 20 years and her relationship with this man. A wise counselor once told me that women tend to confuse pity with love.
I am not yet confident in determining a spath but but I do know that my ex H would pull the stunt of helplessness which tugged at my rescuing tendencies that I inherited growing up in an alcaholic home. The same counselor told me that certain people would feed from these tendencies.
I also felt a reaction to the fact that he would help when he moved in and won’t until then, even though he had the chance to see if he was willing in this direction.
So sorry if I have butted in and I know that you don’t know me but I felt I had to point this out. Like Skylar’s ex, mine was the epitome of kindness, but I have come to know now that it was just him mirroring me. That is, until the mask came off. It went on for six years until I fully trusted him.
My daughter’s keep reminding me that 50 is the new 40 for women cos we live longer. We are now in a position not to settle for less than ideal.
Oxy
What can I say. TOWANDA!!!
Not only the foresight to see the scam but the courage to blow it apart. You go girl.xxx
As said, I am sorry if I have butted in ,but I have come to realise that if my rescuing tendencies get triggered, I would want them to go to a real victim rather than a scammer.
With love
STJ
xxx
Hey STJ good to see you and hear you are recovering, if a little slowly.
The dreaded 50!! You and me both 😆