By Joyce Alexander, RNP (retired)
Tonight on the news I heard where a local Arkansas non-profit had been scammed for over $100,000 by an employee. It is not uncommon in today’s news to hear such things.
I recently came into contact with someone involved with a non-profit group that I will call “ABC.org” because I do not believe the management of this group was in any way involved with what I think is the dishonesty of one of its employees. Here’s how I became involved with this group’s Texas representative.
In the effort to get support for my protest of my son William Patrick Alexander’s parole release, I decided to contact every “murder victim’s support” group in Texas or nationally. I Googled and found several groups that I thought would be appropriate to approach for help.
I sent each of these groups a cover letter by e-mail and attached the official police report from Ft. Worth, Texas, describing the vicious nature of the execution-style murder committed by my son when he killed 17-year old Jessica Witt in January, 1992. I asked each group to please send protest letters and gave my telephone number and a post office box address for them to contact me if they could be of any other assistance. Okay, I admit that this was probably not wise, but I did give these groups my telephone number. It was probably about midnight on a Sunday night when I sent out these e-mails.
About 12:30 a.m., my telephone rang. It was a man named “John Doe” calling from ABC.org. He had received my e mail and wanted to discuss my situation and how he could be of help. Even though I was half asleep when I answered the phone and my “gut” told me that there had to be something wrong, I spoke to him.
Red Flag Number One: A telephone call at an inappropriate time of day (or night, as the case may be).
The next day he called me again a couple of times and e-mailed me. I sent him an e-mail requesting that he not call me at that hour of the night any more. I also gave him some information about where he could obtain therapy for his PTSD that he said he had because his mother had been murdered.
Red Flag Number Two: Poor baby had PTSD ”¦ the pity ploy.
But being the helpful, compassionate person I am, I ignored this red flag as well. I suggested that he might want to read several books that we regularly recommend here for people to learn about psychopaths, Without Conscience by Bob Hare, The Sociopath Next Door, etc.
Then Red Flag Number Three: I received the following e-mail with a different e-mail address than John.Doe@ABC.org:
Please send all future emails to this address John.doe@aol.com.
Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to talk with me about such a sensitive subject.
take care,
John
toll free 1-800-XXX-XXX
P.S. I am a trained journalist. I was wondering if you would consider selling me the book and movie rights to your story at a reduced rate. (Red flag number four, but this time I was starting to listen to my gut.)
I asked him why the change in e-mail addresses and I received this answer.
Joyce,
I just want to keep all our business out of ABC.org business so please use the aol account only.
Thanks,
John
Yep, the red flags are starting to get my attention by now. So I started to ask him what his motives were. When I questioned him about why he wanted to keep information away from his boss at ABC.org, what his “private PR firm” could do for me, why he was trying to get “expense” money from me, either directly or indirectly, through the “book and movie rights” to my story, I got this response by e-mail:
Joyce,
I wanted to explain something. I – whether you believe it or not – am an honest man. And try to do things on the up and up. But not everyone is honest, as you have learned. And I have one fear. I don’t want my boss to say it is a conflict of interest for my company to represent you.
We have conflict of interest clauses in place so make sure we don’t do anything wrong. I am am afraid he will see something wrong with me representing you if you join ABC.org. I don’t know why I think this, but I have an inkling.
I honestly just want to help you and yes maybe make some of my money back and pay my expenses, but I am not and never have been motivated by money and greed. I was going to run this by my boss and see what he says. If he says I can’t represent you I was going to do it on the side and do everything through my legal name James John Doe. Everyone calls me John, but I was born with the name James – that is another story.
So you see, this has nothing to do with a scam but my fear that my boss will say that there is a conflict of interest regarding me representing you. I hope this makes sense to you, because I really want to help you even if I don’t make a dime. I want to do the right thing.
I wouldn’t get involved otherwise. We are talking many, many hours of work without pay and me bringing in other people and asking them to work without pay as well.
That is the truth. I will take a lie detector and pay for the expense if you like. But that is what I am worried about and why I don’t want any paper trial to my biz e-mail account. Because if my boss sees a conflict of interest I don’t want him to tell me “no I can’t represent you.” I am willing to take that chance. And work for you behind his back – I don’t want to do that but I will, because I think we can work together and I think I can help you.
That is all for now. And, God knows that is the truth. I will call you later today at a normal hour to discuss this further.
Thank you for your attention.
John
P.S. Feel free to phone me at XXX-XXXX. That is my home line. I have a 9 a.m. appointment that should last an hour and some afternoon and night meeting, but otherwise I am free.
Notice the various RED FLAGS in his communications ”¦ trying to convince me he is “honest” and this is “not a scam,” just to “make back his expenses.” In another e-mail, he says that the profits from my story can be used to set up a scholarship in Jessica Witt’s name. How altruistic of him.
Dropping names
In several telephone conversations with me, John mentioned a man who has a very high level position in the office of a politician in Texas. This man, I’ll call him Fred Smith, was suggested to me by Parents of Murdered Children as a “go to” person to get some publicity for my “cause.” Then my attorney also mentioned this man as a “go to” person. I had actually talked to him on the phone before John Doe mentioned Fred as his “close friend.” By now I realized that John is a scammer and that he is slinging around the name of this legitimate man, Fred Smith, and I was at a bit of a quandry about how to handle this.
I really didn’t “know” Fred Smith, except for just the one telephone call, but I wanted to let him know that his name was being bandied around by a scammer. I also figured that if John is trying to scam me, he is probably also trying to scam other survivors of murders. I hesitated to report him now, because I was afraid he would sabotage my efforts in Patrick’s parole protest somehow—maybe with Fred Smith and who knows who else. But I finally decided to go ahead. I wrote a letter to Fred Smith explaining the sequence of it all, and sent it to him, along with copies of the e-mails from John Doe.
I also contacted the national office of ABC.org and spoke to the new executive director about the problem. I sent him copies of the e-mails, and a copy of the letter I had sent to Fred Smith. I wanted the executive director to know that I was not going to hide this problem and I wasn’t going to allow him to either.
I got back an e mail saying that this was probably just a “misunderstanding.”
I spoke for over an hour the other day with Mr. Executive Director. After he had had time to completely review the e-mails, he agreed with me that this was dishonesty. He would “handle the situation” and let me know in a week how it was “handled.” I informed Mr. Executive Director that if John Doe did not lose his job, then I would be forced to go to the media, along with Fred Smith’s assistance. Fred Smith is not happy at all about his name being bandied about by someone who is trying to con money from victims via a non-profit. I don’t think ABC.org wants this kind of negative publicity.
The RED FLAGS of a con are apparent in looking at this case in retrospect:
- The man called me on the telephone at an inappropriate time of day for a business-type call.
- His assurances to me when I questioned him about the different e-mail address, the hiding things from his boss, etc.
- The Pity Ploy of “I have PTSD.”
- “I’m going to help you even if my boss says I can’t.”
Though this particular con job was an apparent attempt to find some way to gain financially from me, the basic types of red flags are the same in any kind of psychopathic con job. Whether it is business or love, the red flags are the same: The attempts to get you to trust them, even though there is evidence that they are doing something not quite on the up and up. The explaining away their dishonesty for the “greater good.” The attempts to get you to pity them or identify with them as victims, or to get you to help them. The promises to help you.
Donna’s book The Red Flags of Love Fraud outlines the various ways in which we can identify a potential lover’s psychopathic attempts at conning us. These red flags should not just be limited to romantic relationships, but applied to every relationship in all business or personal parts of our lives. Who would have thought a con man would be representing a legitimate victim’s advocate group?
I had a “gut feeling” from the first telephone call due, to the hour he called, and I should have listened to my gut then. At least, because I am familiar with the red flags, I did pick up on his con a lot sooner than I would have if I hadn’t been “tuned in.” Who knows? Without my understanding of the red flags of a con job, I might have been desperate enough to have given this man money to “help” me ”¦ after all, he was willing to take a lie detector test to prove to me how “honest” he was.
I am a bit further along in the healing process than many of the survivors of murder victims may be and I didn’t fall for the ruse that John Doe presented. Still, it sets my teeth on edge to think that maybe he has conned some unsuspecting and hurting survivor of a murder victim into “hiring” him to represent them with the police to try to solve their unsolved case, or some other “service” he purported to provide.
Regardless of what kind of relationship you had (personal, family, business, or romantic) with a psychopath, learn the RED FLAGS and apply them liberally to relationships of all kinds in your life. You may still get “zinged” from time to time, but the episodes will be shorter and less severe than if you didn’t pay attention to red flags and honor them when you see them.
Oh, and by the way, I got a call from Mr. Executive Director to tell me that John Doe no longer works at ABC.org.
Strongawoman–
So true
Someone I forget who once said, “power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely”
Strongawoman, absolutely, I agree with you…just like when a person starts to work in a butcher shop, the live animals coming in to be killed, the smells of blood and gore and shiiat…it bothers you but you eventually get used to it and it is nothing.
When I was a child and the neighbors would gather to kill hogs and help each other the pig that I had fed and petted was in the pen and I saw it shot and its throat cut, it gutted and hung and made into meat.
But now, I do it myself and it doesn’t bother me because I became used to it and hey, if you’re gonna have bacon some one has to do it. I do make sure that any animals I slaughter are done humanely and “never hear the gun go off” and that they are happy and well cared for before they go to my freezer.
I think that experiment shows exactly what happens when we are influenced by our environment/culture and peers.
Look at the middle east right now where people are killing others who are of a different political group or religion….the take over of the gas field in Algeria, the 9/11 twin towers attack…Pearl Harbor, the Batan Death march, Nazi Germany, Communist China, Stalin’s Russia,…all those people thought they were doing “right” —and prison guards and cops are no different. Or the one were they were told to “Shock” someone and they would pull a switch (the person being “shocked” was not really hurt) and they saw the “suffering” of the person they were punishing for a wrong answer…yet people continued to do it. I isaw it recreated on TV a while back and it took a lot for the people to say NO more.
SharingTheJourney, it’s good to “see” you, again!
20Years, after reading the responses to your situation with Bill, I’m going to say that 2 years is a drop in the proverbial bucket. You don’t have THAT much invested in this man, and whether or not he’s spath isn’t the point. The point is that he’s toxic, on every level. He’s emotionally and financially draining, and NOBODY needs a partner that badly to tolerate toxicity. Like I typed, you’ve come way too far in your recovery to “settle for less than you deserve.” Run, 20years, and run like your backside is on fire!
OxD, I’ll be able to post more about the exspath, soon, but suffice it to say that he works in a prison. These environments do NOT produce individuals like Tom Hanks’ character in “The Green Mile.” Oh, no…..compassionate prison guards that are able to maintain strict boundaries are theoretical, only. Prisons are a HOTBED of spath entanglements and I have to say that I would never, under any circumstances, entertain even going to dinner with someone who worked for any DOC or law enforcement.
Interestingly, the people that I met that were brief friends with the exspath were all toxic-as-hell. Not one of them is emotionally “healthy,” in any respect.
Nope, nope, nope……
Brightest blessings
Truthy, inn my many years of visiting prisons, I have met some men (mostly) that I would say from the get go were psychopathic…one warden almost came over hhis desk at me. My son had been caught with a cell phone iin his cell and I had to drive 700 miles to pick up his craft shop tools they had stolen about $800 worth of specialty leathers and I asked the Major about it, he informed me the warden wanted to talk to me, so I went in, sat down and the man talked to me like I was a thief myself. I said calmly “sir, Ii am a tax payer, not a convict, and I would very much appreciate it if you would not speak to me in that tone of voice.”
Spit started flying out of his mouth he was in such a RAGE and I actually thought he was coming across the desk and going to hit me as he screamed “GET OUT OF MY OFFICE!” I quietly got up and left. LOL
When I backed my truck up to get the stuff, the major said to me “You’ll have to load this stuff yourself, I can’t allow my men to help you.” I figured he was just pulling my chain but I GRAY ROCKED him, and said , “No problem” so when about 4 convicts brought around a big rolling dolly full of heavy equipment, I got up and got boxes and climbed up in the truck bed and started loading them without a single word of complaint, then he smirked, realizing I had succeeded in showing him he wasn’t going to ‘get to me” and I wasn’t the “helpless little old lady” and he said “get down, I’ll load it”—and then made the convicts load me up. I never did get the leather.
Then there was the cute female major that was farking him.
And the guard that made a line of women and children stand out for 2 hours in the HOWLING wind and rain when we could have sheltered up under a near by building, even though some of the families waiting were very elderly, very young, and even pregnant women. He muttered as he walked off “f…kiing convicts shouldn’t have these visits.”
I can’t imagine that anyone could STAY “normal” working under those conditions with primarily psychopath inmates AND co-workers.
Hi Skylar and Oxy….I will post my ‘bust’ story here in the next day or so. I am swamped with work just now, so mostly reading when I can.
Happy Sunday everyone…and healing for all.
xo, Slim
sharing the journey
Hi there, I am happy to see you are back.
I come and go too but I remember your posts.
Mostly I am moving on with my life but every so often I find that I just can’t get my head around it, and I need to come back here for support.
Hugs
Athena
PS. Fuck “50”. I’m 50 too. I don’t think I have ever been in such good shape in my life. Since the spath was kicked to the curb I am investing in MYSELF. And, I am WISER and CLOSER TO GOD than I have EVER BEEN. Lucky me!
So I got to read the article and a few comments. My only internet at present is via a POS 3G connection on a not so smart phone. But I digress. My journey away from my ex spath, his disordered family, and then my own disordered family led me to live with my daughter, now 2, in a womens shelter for nearly three months. Now we are in a transitional housing program and one of the women here is clearly disordered. Abusing her two daughters openly and then tells me I didnt see what I just saw while her children look at me with tearful, pleading eyes. Ive discovered shes trying to triangulate another house mate against me. Shes very entitled, lies pathologically, and has rolled out constant pity ploys with me and the other woman living here. I want so much to tell the case manager of the place what is going on, but I see how she manipulates so efffectively because she has a very sweet seeming persona in front of the right people. She is smearing me, claiming I dont do anything to keep up with the house while in reality I do my share and have assisted her with both moving her things and driving her children to school on very cold mornings. Im sickened and stressed that AGAIN I am dealing with rhis type of abusive personality and will have to risk my housing to try to advocate for myself and those little,girls. Im worn out and cannot believe the state of my life and well being. Im busting my ass to find work, child care, etc. And this sick woman fabricates health problem after health problem and complains about her limited cash flow on welfare. But she manages an afternoon nap every single day, claiming evening insomnia while she really just stays up watching Japanese anime. Im beyond disgust with scammers at this point and would appreciate any advice in how to proceed. The other woman was very friendly with her but started seeking me out and im not sure of her true motives. She is claiming to be unhappy in our currnet conditions with this toxic other woman and wants to talk to the case manager as a team.
LPMarie, I suggest that if you have observed this woman abusing her kids that you make an call to CPS but do not use your name at this time. Just get an investigation started. Call as many times as you need to to get someone out there and THEN when they are there you can size up the case worker and decide what to do.
I know you are in a squeeze between the devil and the deep blue sea, But unless this is just a 1 or 2 day place for you to stay, you need to GET AWAY for your own safety and the safety of your child. I am sooooo sorry you are having such a terrible time finding safe shelter. Your story is not unusual at all. God bless you…you are in my prayers. You have been very brave so far and I am proud of the stand you have taken to get away from the P and your P family as well. ((((hugs))) you are in my prayers. Love OXY
Oxy, thank u. I have a job interview on friday and its a glimmer of hope. This woman lacks an ounce of responsibility for her life and/or actions. And she knows absolutely everything under the sun and is never wrong about anything. As I wrote my previous and now this, it isnt a very pretty picture. I just need to keep going and try not get sucked into her disorder and games. The younger of the two daughters tells me things and I think if she got comfortable enough, shed repeat them to a worker. but I dont know. And this is temporary but for up to two years if needed. Im just trying to rebuild life asap and prevent us from having to live with people like this. But I find myself regretting taking the plunge in the first place, to lose my home and career and friends only to end up around more disordered people.
LPMarie13:
How awful that you ran from the spath only to end up in this situation. I am so sorry for you. I am thinking about you and praying for you that you will be able somehow to get away from that woman. I agree that someone needs to know that she is abusing those innocent children. Very sad.