I recently heard from a man, whom we’ll call “Jeff,” who wanted to know if the woman he was involved with, “Amanda,” was a sociopath.
It started as a friendly involvement, with Jeff trying to help Amanda out. Amanda, who was from a foreign country, called Jeff her “best friend.” Jeff eventually started to have feelings for her. But then came a series of unsettling experiences:
- Amanda made pornographic videos, which were posted on the Internet.
- Amanda worked as an escort. Jeff offered to pay her rent, so she wouldn’t have to be an escort, and Amanda agreed—and continued being an escort anyway.
- Then Jeff asked Amanda to sign a contract promising that she wouldn’t be an escort. She signed it—and broke the deal again, with absolutely no guilt.
- Amanda claimed to be struggling financially. Although Jeff wasn’t well off, he gave her money—and then discovered that Amanda sent a large sum of money back to her home country.
- Jeff discovered Amanda was having multiple liaisons, often on the same day. One guy was married, one was a “sugar daddy,” and several were her “best friend.”
- Other men were also paying her phone bill and rent.
- Jeff stopped taking her calls, but did communicate via email. They agreed to get together to “talk things over.” Amanda cancelled.
- When they did finally have a conversation, Jeff thought Amanda’s words sounded hollow. He also realized her words were used for manipulation, not for communicating the truth.
- Jeff stopped talking to Amanda. But he knew that if he contacted her again, she would be nice and friendly, as if nothing ever happened.
So is Amanda a sociopath? I think so, and that’s what I told Jeff.
His next question was, “What are the most glaring indications that she is a sociopath?”
And that brings us to the point of this article: The most glaring indication of sociopathy is not any particular trait or behavior, but the overall pattern of traits and behaviors.
Sociopathy is a syndrome. What exactly does that mean? Here’s the Dictionary.com definition:
Pathology, Psychiatry . a group of symptoms that together are characteristic of a specific disorder, disease, or the like.
So, although Amanda is an escort, it doesn’t necessarily make her a sociopath. She took advantage of Jeff, but that doesn’t make her a sociopath. She had multiple sexual relationships, but that doesn’t make her a sociopath. Her words sounded hollow, but that doesn’t make her a sociopath. And, if Jeff and Amanda ever talked again, she would act as if nothing happened, but that doesn’t make her a sociopath.
Amanda is a sociopath because of her overall traits and pattern of behavior, including promiscuity, entitlement, manipulation, exploitation, breaking agreements, lying, shallow emotions and lack of remorse. All of these characteristics, taken together, add up to character disorder.
G1S, The only money I ever borrowed from my egg donor was for the private school for my kids while I was in college, and I repaid it with INTEREST at 10% which is the maximum amount allowed at that time in Arkansas, calculated to the penny.
I learned the hard way from my previous in-laws that “favors” come with strings attached….and I did not want to be “beholden” to my egg donor. This infuriated her after my husband died and my step dad died…when she offered to give me money and I said “no thank you” she looked at me and said “you wouldn’t take it if you needed it would you?” I told her “nope, I wouldn’t” SHE KNEW WHY because in my red-neck culture you never accept favors from people you don’t know well AND trust. (or are blood related to, so actually, she saw my refusal to take money from her as an insult. and actually I guess I was because I didn’t trust her and I still dont.) I do not owe her a dime and I am glad. Didn’t keep her from telling people I TRIED to take her money though.
Money is a HUGE control issue in my family.
Even my son’s therapist picked up that my mother is into bribes.
It was a big leap of faith to break my dependence on my mother’s help. I had had cancer, an infant, was abandoned by the father, and was fired for being pregnant.
On top of that, the chemo killed my ovaries and I literally went from delivering a baby (induced so they could start the chemo) to a chemically-induced menopause.
I was very grateful for their help and I honestly thought so much had been healed between us. Then, the P caught wind of what was happening…
My credit rating took a major hit, but I paid off my car and I am current on my mortgage. I consider it a blessing in disguise that I was forced to learn how to manage money and live on a budget. I was floundering in life before then.
My son has learned as well. I explain money to him now. We talk about money, sex, politics, and Ps. How many mothers can say that?
G1S, I think that is a great thing and I think every mother should talk to all her kids about those things!
Yea, money is a big control leash, and “help” that has strings attached where you become “beholden” to the psychopath….of course if they borrow money they have no problem with not repaying a loan, but they expect you to repay in BLOOD.
I knew from past experience that I couldn’t trust her so I dodged that bullet years ago.
It feels really, really good knowing that nobody has that knife to my throat anymore.
G1S, money was a priority in nearly every spath encounter that I’ve experienced.
The first exspath was focused upon money, sex, and domestic violence/abuse.
The second exspath was in it strictly for the money. He “had” to perform sex (albiet very poorly), but it was ALL about money.
The female ex-con spath is all about money – it’s all that she can talk about. VERY obsessive about money and “things.”
Former would-be business partner was also ALL about money and took as much as he could get away with by any means he could find.
Others have demonstrated a lust for money, as well. And, when I say “lust,” I mean that it’s more powerful to them than sex. Sex is just a deviant sideline for them – another tool of control.
I become VERY uncomfortable when people begin talking about money. I typically like to change the subject.
Brightest blessings
OxD, money IS a leash. The female spath ex-con once offered to “LOAN” money to me when I was in a serious situation. I flatly refused the offer and told her that “Loaning money can ruin a friendship.” This was before I ever learned that she had “borrowed” a sum of money from someone that she believed was very wealthy and NEVER repaid it – not even a token payment of good faith.
Everyone should speak to their children about guarding their assets. The discussion should be frank, truthful, and involve personal accountability/responsibility. And, speaking truthfully about other aspects of life is vital, as well – especially, about predatory people.
My ex did NOT have a savings account at the time we married, even though he was making a very good income. He NEVER accumulated any savings, not even in a pension plan, until the very end of our marriage when he started putting together a “war chest” to pay attorney fees AND to start a new life in Europe.
He was raised by “Depression babies” who lived well but budgeted carefully. In other words, he grew up wearing very nice clothes, eating beautiful meals (his mother was rotten with kids, but a good cook) and living in a nice house in a beautiful neighborhood. There was no particular reason for him to end up with “money issues,” and his sister grew up to be just like his parents — living well, but always within a careful budget.
My ex had attitudes toward money that simply were not consistent with the upbringing that he had had. He was only capable of accumulating money immediately in advance of putting together some huge scam. Otherwise, he lived beyond his means and had a devastating level of debt, and sucked up all of the money that I ever earned to meet the minimum monthly payments of his credit cards and the rent on the apartment that we could NOT afford. We had completely different lifestyles: he was “upwardly mobile” because he needed to appear successful for his business life, while I wore clothes that were 10 years old and out of style, and took the bus to my miserable job (he had a brand new Mercedes.)
What I am wondering is if ANYBODY on this board has dealt with an S or P who was completely different. In other words, is there a substantial subset of S/Ps who have pension plans and little or no debt, and a paid-off house with a picket fence?
Divorced from gaslighter…I never knew of one that had any money unless they had recently taken it from a victim. They all to my knowledge live at or above their income level. Many of them are totally worthless as workers, and mooch off others, steal, con, etc. but seldom if ever accumulate anything.
I have heard of a few though, who are professionals, physicians. politicians, and lawyers who actually are wealthy from their professions but I never knew any intimately.
I almost laughed when I read about your psychopath driving his expensive car while you took the bus…I had a friend whose husband drove by her as she walked the kids to school and then walked on to her job, where he went to eat breakfast at a local hang out while she couldn’t afford to even take a lunch.
Yea, they have to appear “successful” even if it is on borrowed or stolen money but they care less what their wives or kids live on.
Divorced from Gaslighter:
Oh, yes! My spath has a six figure income job, a pension plan (works for a huge company that still offers a pension plan), a Mercedes and an $800,000 house (not paid off) and all that goes with it. MAYBE he’s just extremely narcissistic, but he also does have spath characteristics. Sometimes I think these ones are even more so psychotic!
Louise and Ox Drover: I have also heard of “successful” sociopaths, many of them in professional roles of various kinds. But I wonder how many of these could survive any sort of audit? In other words, are they still living beyond their legitimate income and supplementing their income with insurance and Medicaid fraud (doctors & dentists), insider dealing (attorneys & CPAs), rakeoffs, kickbacks, etc., for the elite businessmen?
In other words, are many of the sociopaths who APPEAR successful, even over a longer period of time, really just small-scale Bernie Madoffs? Or are there a significant number who confine their sociopathy to human relationships, while living a life of financial probity?
Louise: Does your ex tend to live at the limit of his financial ability? In other words, you can be overspending and still APPEAR to making money hand over fist. Lots of people live in houses and drive cars that have payments that are right at the edge of what they can come up with each month. And sometimes the pension plan is “untouchable,” which is the only reason that they haven’t touched it.
Many people in my husband’s line of work envied his apparent success. He took exotic vacations, wore expensive clothes, etc., and he very deliberately led people to believe that he was earning a lot more than he actually did.
Even his own parents, who lived nearby, had NO IDEA what his true financial situation was. In fact, I didn’t know myself, as he had even more credit cards than I knew about, and the ones that I knew about were killing us.