By | April 1, 2010 72 Comments

Two terrible stories about sex and children

In Trenton, New Jersey, a 15-year-old girl sold her 7-year-old stepsister to a group of men and boys at a party for sex.

Read: Cops: N.J. teen sold stepsister, 7, for party sex on

In Wales, a 6-year-old was repeatedly stripped, sexually abused and physically assaulted by other children in her school.

Read: Horrific ordeal of girl, six, who was physically and sexually abused by 23 of her primary school classmates on Mail Online.

Links submitted by a Lovefraud reader.

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Ox Drover

I keep “swearing” and promising myself I won’t read this kind of stuff, it upsets me and raises my blood pressure! AUGGGGGHHHHH!!!

That child in Wales makes me WEEP and reminds me of the coverups done by the Catholic church and other schools and organizations. UGHHHHHH!

The girl selling herself was bad enough but to sell her 7 year old sister!!!! UGHHHHHHH!

Let me resign from the human race! I was physically abused in 2nd grade by ONE student who kept beating me up and I was ASHAMED of it and didn’t tell until she brokek my jaw and the swelling made it obvious I was hurt.

However, the teacher and my parents “trivalized” this girl’s behavior and also my pain, they encouraged me to be “understanding” and to “play with her as a friend” and my shame and my anger and my pain meant noting. The “poor girl only did it to me because she was the youngest of a huge brood of kids” so it “wasn’t her fault.” YES IT WAS! She chose to torment me because I was the smallest, youngest kid in the class and I didn’t know how to fight back!

The story of this little girl horrified me and opened “files” in my own background that were connected to some ugly emotions. I need to contain my feelings associated with these “files” (per dr. Joe carver–BTWs thanks for that link, Donna, it was a great one!) Maybe that should be this week’s “self improvement” project!


What people can do each other amazes me, some stories being totally disturbing (like articles about these children). I learned this week watching the national news about a 15 year old girl (an Irish immigrant) living in Massachusettes who committed suicide due to extreme bullying that she received from kids at her school. Her tormentors (9 teens) are being charged with felony charges. When I hear about children being abused, I grieve for them, wishing that they had never encountered and suffered at the hands of people who have no heart.

Elizabeth Conley

My children’s elementary school believed in a psycho-drivel theory that basically stated that only defective children were targeted by bullies.

In other words, they actually believed that if a bully targeted your child, it was because your child had a serious dysfunction. They further believed that the best “cure” was to send both the victim and the bully down to their counselors, who would burn up the victim’s academic time with psycho-drivel. Most egregiously, they didn’t believe that parents of the victim should be notified of the bullying, or the psycho-drivel sessions. Never mind that I had deliberately NOT signed the release form permitting any psycho-drivel sessions with my child, as I don’t believe that is appropriate without my knowledge of the specific issue being addressed.

Yes, this set of thoroughly offensive policies and irrational beliefs are “Exhibit A” in “Why We Home School.”

The adults in my children’s school actually endorsed the bully’s justifications for bullying, because they believed that anyone the bully targeted was defective. Furthermore, they colluded together to prevent me from knowing that my child was being targeted by a bully on an hourly basis.

Grrrrrr!!! Words cannot express the depth of loathing I feel for those 2 legged cockroaches!

Elizabeth Conley

PS: That public school system is now plagued by multiple scandals and drastic budget cuts. I say they should fire the psycho-drivel team that spends their “workday” plotting the downfall of well-behaved, mild-mannered victims of budding sociopaths.


It’s the ‘hide and seek’ game…..

Well….now look where it’s gotten us!!!

Quick…..hide it again……and we just know it will go away!!!!



Ox Drover

Dear EC,

Believe me I too am well a ware of how these “policies” develop and how they turn the trust backwards to justify abuse and them not stopping it.

The schools in which I do the historical presentations, are I admit TOP OF THE LINE public schools but their policies are so in tuned with REALITY that I am always amazed at the kids! How attentive, respectful and well behaved the kids are, and then I see other schools that have to frisk the kids to take away guns and knives! UGH!

I home schooled my older son when it was ILLEGAL TO DO SO, because he was as an ADHD kid, a continual TARGET of bullies, then later I enrolled him in a private school, then when that was no longer possible, I let him drop out of school and take his GED and go to college. Not that this kid turned out perfect, but he got an education at least and he isn’t a psychopath like the other one, just a self defeatingj arsehole.


whole school policy of Zero tolerance for bullying (including members of staff by principal or any other adult/teacher/parent ) is the only effective method in schools. ANY hesitation with it colludes with abuse thriving on fear, hesitation and vulnerability

In my experience There is a value in equipping neglected, timid and fearful children with the SKILLS to stand up for themselves and have their feelings VALIDATED. That does involve non academic time to meet with them and ( hopefully without psychdrivvel) HEAR their sadness, terror and misery as no child should be expected to psychologically handle a bully without TIMELY support from family, teachers, community, police, parents and if they happen to have a play-therapist, counselor …even better, it takes a village to raise a child.

These “bullied” children can get locked in their shame suffering and perhaps obsessing about suicide rather than tellling anyone. When they finally CAN say it to a trusted adult (presumably that’s US) the relief is palpable, and to see them taking on the bully later on is a joy and celebration, they beam with confidence and pride. The bully? keeps the behaviour for outside the school or tips into remorse (normal) or can be psychopath/sociopath and then there are records, psych assessments etc. Catching it earlier!

Heartbroken with this sexual abuse Convinced it’s linked to internet porn industry and a rising sexualization of violence. Upset again. Feel so helpless, can’t rescue the world but so weary and sad that innocence is exploited like this. Ox It’s Good Friday. Forgive them father for they know not what they do? crying is the best I can do for now.

Ox Drover

Dear bulletproof

“forbid them not to come unto me”—-and “He who offends one of these little ones would be better off if a mill stone were tied around his neck and he were tossed into the sea”

Children have a special place I think in the heart of God, and those who abuse them a “special place” reserved in Hades!

I’m not sure the Internet Porn is making abuse “worse” but just making it more apparent…our local city just hired 2 new officers to focus on child porno making and sales, and I am assuming that is because there is enough ‘business” to warrant two dedicated detectives to do nothing else.

Six arrests were made this week in the “local city” for child porn, one a college student. And they put their mug shots up on TV news show! Along with their names and addresses. That might make them want to crawl back into their holes.



Jesus Christ “surrendered” to his own demise at the hands of bad men(would we call so many people psychopaths?)
he suffered so that we could see that it does not matter he would rise again and have eternal life….he died for his beliefs and modelled integrity.

Don’t mind me I’m babbling away because it’s Easter and i’m trying to “get it” lol

dilemma is he was not shouting to everyone, this must stop! these people are sociopaths and they have no remorse! be wary of the sociopaths for they are evil…etc like you would expect

He said forgive them father, for they know not what they do….

and it’s God’s design we do not know what we do. So whaddawe do?

Me? I am off to find a few mill stones and the nearest sea side


Bullying..I hear fathers say, “kids will be kids, boys should toughen up” etc. Meanwhile, it continues. and the PARENTS make excuses. Could that be why it gets worse. We have a nation of excusers? Too lazy to really parent and discipline?

One of the parents in a recent teenage suicide caused by bullying was quoted “name calling is what teenagers do”. SO THAT MAKES IT OKAY???? Teenagers also steal, do drugs and shoot get over it??

When will verbal and emotional abuse be recognize?. Is there a grassroots movement for this? Anyone know of an organization dedicated to education on the harm of this “disease”. Having watched my children live through the “joking” of an abusive parent, this topic hits home.


flowerpower- I think Demi Lovato started an organization against bullying. I don’t remember the name but it was in my magazine. I agree with this whole bullying thing. I used to get maded fun of my the “popular” girls in elementary school. My parents would just say that “kids will always tease kids”. in my mind, I’m like that doesn’t make it right. Name-calling can only go to far. But nowadays at my high school if you are being bullied you should go to the counselor. Then there is this whole procedure: Counselor talks to the bully, continues, then she calls home, continues, she gets expelled, then I think she or he has to transfer schools.


Oh flowerpower- its” Stomp Out Bullying” the organization against bullying.


Thank you hurt…”teasing” I hate that word and its actions..its what you should do to hair..not people.




When the procedure against bullies doesn’t work (which is a good percentage of the time)…..I say….try everything first to avoid the confrontations……if all else fails……

My youngest had a ruthless kid after him…..he’s restrained the bully twice……in headlocks….NOW…this kid avoids him like the plague…..he didn’t need to deck him…..the headlock restraint was enough……

Bullies pick on peeps they think they can ‘take on’……
when you prove them wrong….they stop.
It’s the ‘top dog’ effect…..we need to show them WE are NOT the ‘weak’ link…..
Bullies pick on peeps they perceive as the ‘weakest’ link…..
Once we prove otherwise…..they stop!

Like I said…..avoid it at alll costs…..LAST RESORT TOTALLY……but if it get’s to the point of no other choices…..I say….dig up the MOJO and layemout!


i was bullied in grade 4 and 5. i whacked her in grade 5. it was still hard for the next couple of years,’cause she was a nasty piece of work.

to this day i remember whacking her and the liberation it brought me.

Ox Drover

I know I’ve told this story before but in 2nd grade I was the youngest and smallest child, and this gal kept beating me up daily, and I was ASHAMED of it. Finally she broke my jaw with a coke bottle and the swelling brought this ting to a head.

My teacher and my parents “trivalized” this whole thing, and even my step father went along with this, telling me I must “forgive” her BECAUSE she was traumatized at home (she was a kid from a poor family and there were 21 kids in the family, literally!) and so she came to school and picked on someone she could beat up. OK she had a hard life, but why did I HAVE TO “not be mad at her”? How come MY feelings weren’t important and I had to “make up to HER” and she never once acknowledged she did it or was sorry either?

“Little Oxy” was not protected and was taught to EXPECT that others would hurt them, and that “Little Oxy” had to be kind and forgiving and couldn’t be ANGRY because “Little Oxy” had to have sympathy and empathy for these DEPRIVED other children who took their pain out on “Little Oxy” “Little Oxy”s feelings were NOT important.

HORSE HOCKEY! Bullying in WRONG, and not validating the feelikngs of the bullied, but excusing the bully is WRONG!

Just because I have been treated badly doesn’t give me a PASS to treat others badly! And when others treat me badly I do not have to FEEL SORRY FOR THEM.

I got the lesson in second grade, but I didn’t pass the test for 55 years!


and here’s a lesson to live by:
‘And when others treat me badly I do not have to FEEL SORRY FOR THEM.’

simple. way too simple for me in the past. but i’ll get it.

Ox Drover

Dear onestep,

Yea, it’s always those ‘SIMPLE LESSONS’ we don’t get in school, we learn calculus and chemistry and trig, but we FLUNK the simple ones.


Hi all,

WHY is the school not named? Where was the adult supervision – or were they TAPING the incidents in order to sell DVD’s of this appalling crime. WHO instigated this? How could it have gone on for so long with so many kids involved as aggressors against this child, and ‘not one of them’ spilled the beans~

TWEAK-Y story – where’s a nice AK47 when ya need one? (jk – I’m not violent), but those people that allowed this to happen, and then to happen AGAIN – need full on “LEAD Therapy!”


Hey All-

Haven’t posted here in awhile…wanted to take this opp to post on this subject. My sister…a sociopath and 9 years older than myself…delivered me to her molester….a family friend when I was between the ages of 10 and 15 and she 20 and 24….suffice it to say…she sold me out for material gain and stood by while this pervert “examined” me…she admitted after 25 years of my holding out hope that she didn’t know what she was doing or that she really meant to protect me…It is hard to know that the people that are most dangerous to your well being are members of your own family…she goes to therapy finally..but it has only made her worse…

How do you say goodbye to those who have stood by or caused your trauma and undoing when they are your family? This story is probably more common than anyone cares to know…



You were the battering ram for a child driven to act out her turmoil on the first thing that would take it- I think some systems appreciate having a scapegoat to take the heat so they do not have to deal with it.

Your parents were a DISGRACE to tell you that your feelings were worth LESS than the child’s who INJURED you…no wonder you felt shame

It’s great to hear your healthy anger NOW and it’s never too late to let that toxic stuff out of your body. A great way of working with this stuff is to start saying what you needed to say to your parents and that child NOW…and then follow it up with a physical release (NOT THROTTLING THE CAT OR ANY BEING)


what to say…it’s betrayal at a sexual abuse level. cuts to the core of what we are at the mercy of. I’m so sad for you. Your family are supposed to love and protect you from harm. What hope have we got if members of our own family deliver us into hell?

How to say goodbye?

You said goodbye to family the moment you were handed over to a molester who hurt you on every level of your being.

The starting point is feeling your feelings. Speaking the truth of your experience to someone. Being REAL and that could be very emotional..i dont know but whatever it is its better than a ghost town…get to the real you and share that with your sister, if she is a human being she will be in her own process of recovery, if she is a P then she is without the feelng anything wrong hapened and you cannot be around that energy and grow

I dont know but I think you can work it through by expressing yourself more, getting responded to by other human beings who have been there

it’s up to you whether you cut them off. If they are human, then there is hope of working it through. If they are sociopathic, then you have to cut loose to give yourself optimum chance of regaining your strength and purpose and finding love in other groups of people who understand.

may all the angels out there be at your side to guide you through!

Ox Drover

Dear Bulletproof,

Yes, my anger was justified, and yes it was invalidated totally, and it never went away because it seethed inside as an injustice to my soul.

I’m actually convinced that most of it was done that way because my teacher, who wasn’t an abusive woman in any way, and my step father, and maybe even my egg donor, didn’t really KNOW a proper way to handle it.

When my own son C was bullied as a second grader on a school bus, I validated him and acted, eventually finding out the name of the 14 year old who was doing it, taking it up with his parents, and putting a STOP to the bullying and actually even getting an apology from the child and a change 180 degrees in behavior.

Validating a child’s feelings when they are injured I think is one of the most important things. Being honest with them about their feelings. Even in my practice when I woujld have to give a child an injection or some other procedure which they were (rightly or wrongly) afraid of, I would not lie to them and say “this will only feel like a little pinch” I would tell them “this is going to hurt some but it is okay for you to cry or scream, but your arm has to stay very still so I am going to have your mommie hold it so you will remember to keep it from moving, but it will be over quickly.”

Even 3 and 4 year old kids would cooperate for even some painful procedures if they were told the truth and validated.

Being able to validate myself even 57 years later after that second grade bully, is “freeing” believe it or not. One of the keys I think to letting go of so many angry feelings is to be able to validate yourself and no longer NEED that elusive validation from others. At least it seems to have been that way for me.



Friday, 2 April 2010 @ 9:53am – you posted:

“And they put their mug shots up on TV news show! Along with their names and addresses. That might make them want to crawl back into their holes.”

THANK YOU (and the local NEWS) for “outing” these creeps!


Ox Drover

There seems to be a “rash” of creeps here lately in Arkansas that are making the news, domestic violence deaths, a Salvation Army worker shot to death at Christmas time in front of his 3 small children in an attempted robbery, a man murdered and his body tossed in his pick up truck bed, then the truck set on fire with his 2 yr old in her car seat in the cab, the woman driving drunk into the lake with her 3 kids who drowned. Child porn, and our local closest “town” of about 50 thousand people now has TWO full time Internet child porn and minor solicitation [email protected] Which probably isn’t enough. The high schools are covering every place on campus now with video cameras excerpt the toilet stalls that go 24/7 to the cops. One of the kids was interviewed on the news last night and he said it made him feel like he was in prison at school. I can understand that, but at the same time, I can also understand the need for the video feeds to the cops because many public high schools are becoming so violent, and BTW a coach and principal at a PRIVATE RELIGIOUS school was reported 10 yrs ago to the superintendent who quashed it and didn’t report it to the cops, and he was arrested RECENTLY for molesting a young girl.

I hate to sound like an old person talking about “now back in my day…” but you know, back in my day the “worst kids” on campus were the guys with duck tail hair dos smoking behind the gym. The worst fights on campus ended in a bloody nose, and though I was physically abused by another second grader, that actually was a rare occurance in the schools I attended. There were no “drugs” except a small amount of BEER on rare occasions, but not much of that even. There was unprotected sex (about 14 of my female class mates were preg at graduation) but there weren’t a great deal of STDS that couldn’t be cured with penicillian. So, over all, I think schools WERE safer at least where I attended.


Ox Drover

that’s great. the way you validate a child’s feelings that is. My parents did not validate my feelings and I was lost in a fog of shame too. It sets us up for being lied to….but what you said:

“Even 3 and 4 year old kids would cooperate for even some painful procedures if they were told the truth and validated”.

Validation is so healing, and accurate because a human being is so worthy of being beheld and witnessed for what they are, and after that we can feel proud of our intuition instead of ashamed.

Elizabeth Conley

Anybody been following Josie Lou Ratley’s story? Here’s the latest:–89987632.html

Her assailant, Wayne Treacy, thinks a few crocodile tears will get him off the hook. Maybe he’s right. Treacy’s only 15.

Elizabeth Conley

It seems perversely sado-masochistic to have paddling of 18 year old high school students. Some serious boundary issues are being ignored here.

We had a principal who offered not to tell kids’ parents about their misbehavior if they chose paddling over other disciplinary measures. Even as a teen, I suspected he was a pervert.

Ox Drover

Dear EC,

Nothing that takes place in South Florida suprises me. My husband lived there when both our older kids were in High school or college for a couple of years. I hated it there as the violence in the area was horrible. Car jackings daily, home invasions, and the first day at high school for my little P darling there was a murder on campus, and that was where my P son stole the gun and got his start in crime by taking a gun to school, and robbing our friends and customers.

Son C got mugged on his way home from his job and damn near killed, friends had had cars jacked out from under them, windows had bars and doors had panic buttons by them. I’ll pass on Southern Florida thanks. (and Yea I know this kind of thing happens in all 50 states!) but gosh, it sounds here like there might be some mental illness issues besides or instead of psychopathy, possibly bi-polar. I’m not ruling out psychopathy, but gosh this is terrible!

Ox Drover

EC, on the “dresses” for Prom, why ANY suspension OR paddling? Why not just send the kid home or give them ann option to go home and change? Or have some kind of “robe” you can put over the kid’s clothing that is like a “burka” so that they are essentially covered neck to toes? I can think of so many “creative” ways to cover up a kid who shows up “Neekid” or showing their “stuff” that would let the kid attend the prom and not show “nuthin off”

Paddling? Suspendiing for 3 days? WHY–??? either one seems to me an over kill entirely.

IN-school “suspension” (we called it “study hall”) where you went if you didn’t have a class that hour, or if you were thrown out of a class, and there was a teacher/monitor and you got to sit there and “study” or pick your nose or whatever you chose to do—-boring. ABSOLUTE QUIET. Makes a lot more sense to me than letting a kid go home for three days and do what he wants to do. DUH.

Let lme see how this works. I don’t like school, so I act badly, and I get to go home and don’t have to go to school. DUH, I may be a retard, but I can GET THAT I get out of doing something I hate by doing something that is fun! WOW! I learned something in school today mom! I learned how to get my way and get out of school!


oxy – i have never met a piece of decent chocolate i didn’t like – but i chewed the ears off a dark chocolate lindt bunny last night – and puke it all up. no idea why. but i think you may have had something to do with it, godless woman.

Ox Drover

Hey, one-step, you said you had a wieght problem, so I put the special “iron skillet hoo-doo voo-doo” on chocolate for you as a FAVOR to you so that you will lose weight and be slim and trim and even more beautiful! See now you are forever cured of craving chocolate and truffles…but if you insist, I will take the spell off so here is the incantation “Wally wally wally world, after easter candy sale! POOF!” so now you can go to wal mart and buy all the on sale after easter candy on sale and eat your heart out! LOL Just shows how unappreciative you are of my cyber attempts to help you—ungrateful wench! LOL 🙂 BTW I am not a godless woman, I have a cat that lives in my house and she is convinced she is god and that she is IT! I am her slave and servant and she prefers guys—-to me! Oh, well, I think she has psychopathic traits, and probably bi-polar too, up all night looking for things to get into at least! That’s why she can’t come into my room at night, she tries to play with my feet all night! LOL

Have a good day, leaving for “civilization” today and boy do I dread it! Gonna rain too!


i knew you were involved. 🙂
and it was damn sale candy. but lindt? you’d think it would be fine? i have been having trouble for about 2 months – sometimes i just throw up. will be going to the doc again soon.

could you also put the special hex on, um, anything that crosses my lips….erghh.

I gained weight at one other time in my life – when i quit smoking 24 years ago, i gained 40 lbs in one month (i have a very slim frame). walked around with that for about 6 years, then dropped it all in about a year. This last year has been a nightmare and eating in anxiety is something i can go to – just been a lot of anxiety, and a lot of pain and little activity, so there is a LOT of weight. heaviest ever. sigh. I know that there is still too much anxiety to deal with this yet.

so, god is feral, nocturnal, small and furry. i suspected.

i wish i had a little tyrant running around my place. i looooove cats.

got a bday card from my gram today, it said:’ have a cat kind of bday – do whatever the hell you want!’

take it easy in the city, it will be over soon!

Ox Drover

One-step, I’m still trying to hex myself and my craving for carbs, haven’t lost any more weight lately, but have not gained any either, so the lost weight has stayed gone for a couple of months, but I need to get back on the diet seriously.

Yea it will “ruin” my day to gather up and go to town, but I’ll manage. Haven’t done much of it in the last few weeks, so I guess I can stand it for part of a day. Got lots of errands to run, and at least I don’t have to live in that cesspool on a daily basis or go there to work!

Got the son D as my “driving miss daisy” driver so I don’t have to sweat the traffic even and have some company as well.

You guys have a good day and solve all the problems of everyone on the blog and all the problems of the world as well while you are at it.

You’re on your own, One step with the diet, if I could really “hoo doo voo doo” someone to lose weight I woujld do myself first! LOL since I can’t do that, you shouldn’t have much faith in me as a cyber power to influence someone else’s weight. LOL


eat as much chocolate as you want but Oxy is looking out for you!

seriously after what you’ve been through? a little weight is expected.

I did put on a stone weight with comfort eating.

My nutrition has been good though so I radiate…we need time to re allign…. and when we do we are the MOST BEAUTIFUL RADIANT BEINGS that can do anything and attract anything….I chose to attract loving kindness right to my door!

but the only goddamn problem is the question burning in my brain…IS HE A SOCIO/PSYCHO PATH?????


Thanks Bulletproof…it is a true comfort to be heard and responded to here…she upped her game of predatory behavior once she finally admitted that she used me for financial gain…money is her god…she now owns a thriving Daycare Center in southern florida….I guess she saw how lucrative exploiting the innocent could be…there is more to this story…so much more…it felt good to “come out” about it here…anyway, thanks again.


One-step: you can actually diet on chocolate! You just have to replace the calories of an ordinary meal by chocolate (75 grams equals a full meal 😉 and do not eat anything else with it, especially bread with thick butter on it is yummy but not helpful in this situation)

And with Lindt you have to look at the fine print whether it has been produced in Switzerland or under licence outside of Switzerland. It is NOT THE SAME! In Switzerland it is forbidden to put in the chocolate anything but cocoabutter, whereas everywhere else they can replace cocoa butter by “hardened vegetable oil” and use cocoa butter (which is expensive) for cosmetics and the like. The vegetable oil stuff is horrible and not as nicely melting in the mouth as cocoa butter melts at 37° and the other stuff crumbles in the mouth at a higher temperature and is a lot sweeter. So you better get the REAL stuff but just a tiny amount of it. Only the best is allowed on my hips! is my motto.

Be aware of “hardened vegetable fat” as it is poison to the arteries (transfat!). So most of the cookies are off limits for me. I used to be a hard core Chocolate addict, and got rid of twenty pounds this way. Well, easter bunny had me put on some, but I will get rid of it soon hopefully.

And the most important: enjoy without remorse!

I wish you a pleasant day without bewitched food!

kim frederick

Yes, and dark chocolate, in small amounts, is actually GOOD for you.

The problem is in eating small amounts. LOL.

kim frederick

Weel, I have the whole house to myself, all day. I’m going to clean my room and bathroom from top to bottom, wash my laundry, cook myself a lovely dinner, and loll around in the hot-tub. Read and post here, and perhaps finish my latest knitting project…take a walk…all positive things.

I have been dreaming like crazy, lately. Mostly those frustration dreams, where you have a dead-line to meet, and everything distracts you, or holds you up, or falls apart, or you trip over it…or something.

Something about the change of the season makes me reminisce about the spath. Feeling sentimental.
I have to pull my mind away from all that, and re-focus on all the heart-che, anger and frustration…ie. the reality of what was.

I wonder why it’s sooo important to me to come to an indupitable conclusion as to whether he’s a true spath. Still haunts me at times. Like it would make a difference? NO.

But, it’s confusing to know he had some good in him, in spite of all his spathy behavior. Still wonder if he feels any regret.


libelle and Kim – I am usually really choosy about the chocolate I eat. i really wanted a bunny and the only ones that were small were lindt.

the throwing up thing has been happening for a couple of months and i can never predict what will trigger it. i believe it is connected with the formaldehyde poisoning and had little to do with the not so great chocolate.


bulletproof – just saw your comment now. thanks. 🙂

i had a horrible day yesterday. last night was unbelievable. so much inner anguish and pain as all the info i have now about the spath collided inside me. i was toxic too (from my place) and the intersection of those things was ugly.

i am off to see the grief counselor this am. i hope talking with her helps to process some of this. i feel so awful.

kim frederick

One-step, Am sending you lots of hugs and white light. Good luck with counseling. 🙂


thanks Kim. good to see a friendly face. yesterday was hellish. i find i am full of tears erupting at every prompt today. and angry at peoples bad/reductive/uncaring/ heartless behavior. bad days.


One step:

you now have a very strong ally to fight with against the EVIL! I would be furious if someone stole my identity and commited outrageous things IT did to you! Did you already inform him?

Take care and let the bad days pass. If there were just good days one could not tell the difference! (and in old days formaldeyde was a component of beauty treatments 😉 no kidding!) We can’t change people, just our attitude towards them and not letting them get to hit our souls/nerves/lacrimal glands/ stomach/heart. I wish you all the best and send you lots of antiemetic ((((((cyberhugs))))))!


One Step,
I am sorry that you are having a rough time right now. Sounds like alot of triggers are attacking you.

It is my belief that there is always a price to pay with any involment, voluntary or involuntary when it comes to a x spath. Just having thoughts “dancing” through our heads about them and the past is enough to trigger our emotions.

“Outing” a spath, requires alot of going back. And that requires thick skin, and a whole LOT more than that. I know this is important to you One, but please be sure that you have weighed in the toll it will take on you.

Maybe the timing isn’t right for you to do this now. Maybe it is, only you can answer this question. But timing always is a factor.

Remember to put yourself first. This journey is about YOU now and whats best for you. Your health, your well being, your getting through this and arriving at a better place in your life.

I am here for you, for support, either way. Just want to offer a gentle reminder, to put yourself, and your needs, right now at this moment, on the top of your “focus” list.



I ache to think of what you suffer from the spath and from all the rest of it.

I’m right behind wits- whatever you do, put YOURSELF first and that means on the top of the stack. What the spath did, they did.

What hurts you hurts and when you allow yourself the time to release it, let it be gone that much further from who you are and where you are.

You can get through this. It may not all be delightful now, but you will change that. And it will be. Dream into it.

I’ll be right here.


Kim I hear you.
How hard I wrestle with the question about what is true and what is more than the eye can see.

Well, I asked over and over and over and then finally the voice inside asked: Who cares? do you want to spend your days worrying about this?

The answer is -NO.

If it was to have been known, it would have before now. It should have. And win draw or lose, the right thing is the right thing.

Hanging around a jailhouse looking for the profound answers to love’s mystery ain’t real. It just ain’t and I won’t go there.

SO whatever wallow your spath is in, don’t follow them. Be all you can be and proudly.

You don’t deserve what you went through and where ever you are that is away from the whole scene, you are in a better place.

Now, what do you ned to do to make it the best place of your life? Dream into it.

I’ll be right here.

Ox Drover

Dear Kim,

BOINK! “I am wondering…” You quit that RAT NOW! cause you KNOW the answer to that one! You KNOW he has no alturistic good in him, you know they don’t care, never did care! Now you write 500 times “Psychopaths will not change. They ARE the lie!” And turn it in before supper time! LOL 🙂

One step–I agree with Witty on that one, dealing with them, even to out them takes ENERGY and RESOURCES that can very definitely take AWAY from our own selves the energy and resources we NEED in order to breathe, live, recover, heal, etc.

The Bible talks about a man who is going to build a house, and if he is serious and a smart man, he will sit down and COUNT THE COST BEFORE he starts to build so he will not get a house half built and then discover he doesn’t have enough to complete it.

Expending ENERGY is the same thing as starting a building project. The difference is we can’t count “energy” like we do “money” to determine if we will have enough to complete our projects. So when you are feeling “tired” and “drained” and “sick” that is a very good sign that your ENERGY ACCOUNT IS LOW and your RESOURCES ACCOUNT is not flush, so SLOW DOWN the expendaturess just like you would with a budget on a bank account, and SAVE up for what needs to be done FIRST, for what is MOST important.

I spent WAY to much energy on UN-important crap until I started focusing on what was NECESSARY to be done, and quit focusing on what could wait til later or even never get done and it still be okay.

TAKE CARE OF YOU FIRST—it is more important than you know! (((Hugs))))


One of the things that all toxic people seem to have in common, is they have the ability to make us to always question ourselves. They create such an illusion, that we loose touch with our own reality.

That is what they seem to do BEST. They make us doubt ourselves.
We might question ourselves in the moment, the next day, a week later, a month later and even YEARS later.
That is some pretty powerful stuff they do. To keep us questioning ourselves and to have us that off balance.

That powerful “stuff” that they do is to keep us from questioning THEIR motives, and their agendas. And to keep us in their “reality” rather than grounded in our OWN reality.

How they can still have us questioning ourselves years after the fact, shows how powerful what they did (to us) really was.
I am often triggered by something and question something going back over 13 years ago before my husband suicided.

Toxic is what it is. I suppose that is all that is necessary for us to know. And to run like hell anytime someone has the power to make us doubt oursleves like that again.

Learning to be true to ourselves after having this experience is an ongoing struggle. But I think an important one.

Ox Drover

Dear Witty and Kim,

Witty dear your advice and information is very very good! We do allow it to “make us wonder” years later, looking back, and staying true to our TRUTH and REALITY is an ON-going process, and I think forever, to some extent! But when we “catch” ourselves verbalizing these thoughts even if not out loud, but just inside our head, we have to STOP, LOOK, AND LISTEN to ourselves and STOMP out these “bad/untrue thoughts” like a grass fire in your front yard! Get it dead before it burns the house down (again!).

Yesterday when I was talking to my cousin, and I could detect the SLIGHTEST bit of frustration, anger, gaslighting etc from him. It really at first “ticked me off” and frustrated me too, but at the same time, I realize that he isn’t coping well, but he is copiing (and hasn’t suicided or homicided) and having Uncle Monster for a father was VERY TRAUMATIC to say the least. Uncle Monster would hold cousin’s mother, his sibs and him at GUNPOINT for hours and days threatening loudly to shoot one or all of them and ranting and raving about various things. I can’t even IMAGINE having that happen to me as a child, just knowing that Uncle Monster did this to my grandmother pithed me off when I found out about it (the rest had been kept secret from me until Monster’s death.) I did know that Monster had stomped and kicked His wife when she was preg with Cousin in a failed attempt to KILL Cousin before birth. Apparently Cousin did not know this story, and frankly a year or so ago when I was talking to him openly, I told him this story and I think he believed me, seemed to at least and then I think he has gone into DENIAL now. I’m not sure now how WISE it was to actually tell Cousin this, but at the time I was trying to “make him see” that even though his father Uncle Monster had done HORRIBLE THINGS to him (things Cousin remembered) and others too, that my egg donor was PROTECTING Uncle Monster and is protecting my murdering P-offsrping just like she did Uncle Monster.

Maybe I should not have shared the “tried to kill you before birth” saga with Cousin, but I did and not much I can do about it now. Can’t un-ring a bell unfortunately. So just try to keep in “touch” with Cousin on a NON-openly-confrontational basis and pretend I don’t know he is angry at me for not taking back Power of Attorney over the egg donor and playing the game where I don’t notice she is abusing me or putting my life at risk. Oh, well, “you makes your choices and pays yer money and takes yer chances with the results!”

It may not be the “right” choice or even the “best” choice but it’s what I’ve decided to do cause I can’t figure out a better way. Cousin has bought into the “family games” too far to back out now and face the fact that his father was a MONSTER of horrible proportions. It is a painful journey and each of us has to decide to go on that “trip” ourselves, and he isn’t ready to make that leap of faith that life would be better if he accepted “truth” because when we open that door between denial and truth the HALLWAY between them IS DARK, filled with obstacles and sharp objects…and takes a long time to negotiate!

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