Here is an e-mail exchange that recently took place between me and a Lovefraud reader:
Arlene: I was married to a man for 23 years. I found out so much in the last few years. He murdered my soul, my spirit, and financially devastated me. He moved another woman … brainwashed my children. My 18 yr old now is on cocaine…she was a nice girl…he has trashed her also and she is not living with me. The children now that were close to me are not empathetic and cold.
He grew in power and is an intellectual. He spread vicious rumors about me to cover his tracks. I am just to move on. Even though I was such a devoted mother and this family was my life. I have tried everything to recover and I am alone. You see I have no extended family. Some friends but they have their own lives.
For me I cannot forget my children… I am human…I have such pain daily. I feel nonexistent in my life. I cannot recover from the loss of my family and to see them turn out cold and unloving is too much than I can bear. I pray everyday for God just to take me home. Because living life without love is no life at all.
I was more into the connection of my family’s life and he made sure I was disconnected, so well planned. I repeat many of the scenarios I read on your love fraud…so I know I am not alone. Like one day … I was thrown out of my life planned…I was used all those years … and treated like trash and devalued. The loss of my soul…the loss of my smile”¦my hopes…my dreams. I just want to die.
Donna: Please do not act on your statements. I truly understand the pain Ӭand devastation that you are feeling, but you must not give in to it. ӬSociopaths are evil. They are professional manipulators. Whatever Ӭhappened is not your fault. You did not deserve it. The best thing Ӭyou can do is to recover.
Please seek professional help. Make sure whatever counselor you see Ӭunderstands sociopaths, because not all of them do.
Arlene: Yes they are evil. But you see I have been to counseling …and it does not make it any easier. Because normal people have human connections and emotions and they have none. I cannot forget the memories of my children…my children have turned out as manipulators themselves and with no empathy. I never thought it would be possible. But he not only damaged me…he damaged them permanently.
THANK YOU FOR CALLING it EVIL because no one understands but us…it is entirely different than a normal divorce or split up. When you come in contact with evil it seems to change you for the rest of whatever life you have. If you are young…there is a better chance of recovery because you can start maybe with a new family. I am turning 50 years and I was looking forward to the connections with my children for the future and the grandchildren and that is all gone now. It seems that I wasted all those years and all the work I did was for nothing. But thank you for your comments they mean so much as I know that you really understand where I am coming from.
Understanding
I wish there was a formula, a prescription, a therapy, for making the pain inflicted by sociopaths—such as Arlene is experiencing—go away. I don’t know of any.
All Lovefraud can offer is understanding.
First of all, Lovefraud helps people understand what they are dealing with. Sociopaths have no heart, no conscience and no remorse. They feel no emotional connections to other people. They have no family and friends, only prey and pawns. People who have tangled with a sociopath are not stupid, they were targeted.
Secondly, Lovefraud is becoming a community of people who understand and can empathize with the experiences of those who have been targeted. We know what it’s like to be deceived, bankrupted, assaulted and then ignored by people in authority while the sociopaths go on their merry ways.
I can only hope that these two types of understanding can serve as a foothold, a starting point, a ray of hope, so that the victims like Arlene can begin recovery.
Super thanks for pointing that out because I have a constant battle over mine really being disordered or not. when I think of how caring and loving he acted I ask myself how could it have been false. It’s confusing when people say he just didn’t like YOU because he was never this bad with anyone else. It hurts to hear this. Makes me believe that maybe I was just his whore and he did indeed love those before me. I comfort myself believing friends just never witnessed this horrible treatment with anyone but me.
Superkid,
you are sooooo lucky that this was the role he gave you. If he had married you the mind-f**k would have been much worse. It is so difficult to believe that they can fake it for so long. Who can do that? It’s unbelievable. But you know, maybe not.
I can imagine myself faking a completely different personality for 25 years – if I had no conscience, no empathy for others, no feelings at all, except envy. Then it would be easy.
Who do spaths marry? What’s the typical criteria?
Spaths marry narcissists. That’s why we have to admit that it was a bit of narcissism in us that attracted them.
Some narcissists are me, me, me, me. Those are obvious ones. Othertimes, narcissistic traits include thinking we can save the world, taking on more than our share of responsibility, thinking we are stronger than we are, trying to be everything to everyone.
Spaths love narcissists because they can play with their heads. Humility is the only thing that can save us from spaths. (it comes with a side of gratitude)
Sky – I disagree with ya darlin.
This is just so sad. Reading her words….she is right. Having this happen and then barely getting out at 50, losing the children, all that…he really took her whole life from her but left her alive. I mean he took everything that mattered and then left her alive to have to suffer with that loss.
It didn’t fully sink in until I read this how much harder it must be to go through this for such a long period of time and then only escape when your life is closer to be finished. 50 is not the end, but it is unlikely she can remarry and have children. It’s almost impossible that she could. That really is a kind of murder.
What a sad letter. I wonder how she is now and where she is. Does she post in here? This was 2007. I hope she is doing better.
Hens,
that is your perogative, but may I ask why?
I am repeating what I’ve read the spaths on spathworld say. Specifically, a few female spaths have said that they are married to their narcissist husbands because they are so easy to manipulate. From watching my mother and father, I do believe this is so.
Then I think about why my spath was able to con me for 25 years and I think it was my belief in myself and my ability to be superwoman that made it possible.
Panther,
I agree that it is murder. Spaths will steal your time on earth. They do this knowingly, in whatever way they can get away with. One minute, hour, or decade at a time. They can’t have it, but they don’t want you to have it either.
sky – i interpret as low self esteem wrapped in codependency some of what you interpret as narcissism. I do not beleive that all desire to fix, enable and sacrifice oneself comes from narcissism.
i think that these behaviors show a need to have a safe environment, and i have most often seen them in people who didn’t. I wouldn’t call my mom an n – but when i was younger i did call her a martyr, and i do def call her supply now. She came from a very dysfunctional home where she was assigned and took on the role of peacekeeper – she literally was the one who kept the peace, and sacrificed herself to do so. this has never changed. it’s why my saying ‘my dad is an asshole. he gets nothing fro, me’ is so threatening to her. she has falied at her job – which is to keep the peace so that she has a peaceful environment. the truth is not so important to her…of dealing with rumbles below the surface…she just wants to fe shallowly safe. she has never been able to figure out anything else.
she passed this instability and disease on to me. i was brought into a family where there was no truth and no real safety, BECAUSE THERE WAS NO TRUTH. she taught me to sacrifice myslef and put myslef last. and to accept being the scapegoat.
and now when i am so down as i am nwo, self care is a huge struggle…because it’s the last thing i have to sacrifice. right now when i feel so unsafe, i am still sacrificing myself – to no one.
i always respect your opinion and i do try to wrap my head around this one – haven’t yet, as i don’t believe that all people who try to help fix, etc are motivated by an unhealthy narcissism, but rather a damaged esteemed and way of interacting with the world.
I think it is very hard to talk about narcissism/narcissists, hard to talk about sociopaths, etc. (regarding criteria, definitions and so on) because truly it really is not perfectly understood. It’s like we each have a part of the elephant, and many professional “experts” have not had actual relationships with sociopaths. I have known mine for about 20 years, and I am still growing in understanding. Frequently, new insights either build upon what I thought I knew before, or completely wipe it out with a new, dawning and previously unfathomable realization (such as, “no emotional connections to people.”)
I think this difficulty in talking about it is a great reason to talk about it (agree, disagree) because we all have our own experiences with this personality type, this type with so many flavors, and I think the more that people like us who have lived through it (or are still living it) can share our experiences in discussions like this, the more the understanding will grow — and perhaps the people who “own” the definitions and the criteria will cease being ivory tower people or professionals who only come in contact with this type through research or institutions or occasional therapy — as opposed to having RELATIONSHIPS with sociopaths. Quite a different thing! Who says WE the ones who have direct experience cannot be the “experts” or the ones who get to define our experiences with sociopaths? I think we can.
I am interested in the comment about spaths marrying narcissists. I think, well, perhaps that is a spath point of view, and worth considering… but my understanding of narcissism is that it is also one of those things which exist along a continuum, with just a few “narcissistic traits” which hardly qualify as full-blown narcissism (and having a few narcissistic traits is NOT a bad thing!). and then there are those narcissists who are not malignant narcissists/sociopaths — big difference.
I look at the spath targeting me, as 1) my good will towards all people; 2) my naivete in not truly grasping the existence of human evil; 3) my faith in myself as “never giving up” and being very persistent to make a success of all of my relationships; 4) my empathy
Most people we think of as narcissists LACK empathy. And I think most targets of sociopaths are highly empathetic. We may have a few traits which are narcissistic or could appear that way to a spath. But I do not think we are narcissists (those of us who are on Lovefraud, anyhow!). Yet… I do see sociopaths/narcissists pairing up with each other. Where does one end and the other begin? I am not sure those relationships are predator/prey, but maybe one in thrall to the other, and together they make a very evil team against others (for example, their children).
I’m nearing 50 myself, but while the “battle” is not yet over for my children, they are showing a definite leaning towards empathy/kindness and resisting sociopathic traits (except I am more concerned for my son, who, at times, seems to sit on the fence between the two…)
I know this post was written in 2007, but if I could offer this, I’d say… focus on healing yourself (hobbies help) and that can include, at a certain point (once healthier boundaries are in place), volunteer work WITH children and forming friendships with people of all ages — not just people your own age where you will be frequently reminded of your particular loss — but be involved with people your children’s age AND people older than you who have successfully resolved crises like this, and you might find eventually that you can find another, “surrogate” family. I have seen this happen, so I am not making it up! Many people who come from non-loving or toxic families eventually end up forming new relationships that are by choice, and are beneficial to both. You could babysit. You might end up — who knows — finding a new partner who has children, and you become a stepmother and stepgrandmother.
Please do not ever give up hope. Life is certainly NOT over at age 50! 😉
It’s true that these PD’s are still being defined, so we each have a slightly different perspective depending on our experience with the spaths.
I used to think of narcissists as very selfish and “me, me, me”. While that may be how some present themselves, there is much more to the definition as I understand it now.
A narcissist, in my definition, is someone who has not completely grown out of their infancy. That is why they lack boundaries, as babies do. And that is why their beliefs are not completely grounded in reality – they still indulge in magical thinking. And they are still functioning in the dysfunctional way that they needed to do, when they were young and learning to survive in a toxic family of origin. For some of us, that means being the sacrificial scapegoat, over and over again. Or in other words, to indulge in malignant empathy (enabling behaviors) and taking on responsibilities that are not ours to take.
Most people don’t consider themselves narcissistic because their definition of narcissism is to be selfish and self-centered.
Which, it was never their (or my) intention to be. In fact, just the opposite. But when you are self-sacrificing, you are lacking boundaries between your responsibilty and those of others. The idea that you can shoulder so much and still be fine, is magical thinking. It’s all bad programming from our childhoods.
So that is what I generally mean by narcissism and it can include both the selfish assholes and the martyr christ complex.