UPDATED FOR 2024: Lovefraud received the following e-mail from a reader who posts as “forever_me.” She asks a very important question: “Should I warn the next victim?” I’ll answer her question after her letter.
Hello. I am looking for some guidance. I was in a romantic relationship with a P for over 2 years, but just broke it off earlier this week. I discovered that he was using an online dating site and was able to access it because I knew the patterns of his passwords. I created a bogus profile on the same website and contacted one of the women he was messaging. She was shocked to hear from me because my P told her he was single and not dating anyone. What was worse was that they had engaged in unprotected sex a few days before my P and I had unprotected sex. We agreed to meet each other to discuss the details of our relationships with this man. She had been dating him for just over a month.
After my conversation with this woman, I wanted answers from my P, although at this time I didn’t realize that was what he was. I was persistent in my confrontation with him, which took 3 hours of dealing with blatant lie after lie. He initially denied dating anyone else or knowing about the dating site, then claimed he was letting a friend use his identity to cheat on a fiance, then finally admitted he did go on a few dates with the woman I had contacted through the site. However, he swore that he’d never had sex with her or anyone else since we’d been together. In fact, the woman I met was actually stalking him and trying to turn me against him since he rejected her. I eventually walked out the door when he told me he was sorry, not for his actions, but because I was under the misunderstanding we were a couple instead of just friends with benefits. lt is worth noting that during the course of our dialogue, he casually picked up the newspaper to read it and briefly watched the local news as if we were just having a typical evening together.
I was so bewildered by his lies and behavior after I left that I began searching the internet and stumbled upon this blog. Reading the many entries made me realize that I had been involved with a P. All the little red flags added up and I’m coming to terms with the truth. This site has expedited my healing and I thank everyone involved for that!
Now my conscience is wondering if I should continue to warn other women about him? He changed his password but I have once again figured it out. The woman I contacted before was glad I did. I don’t plan to meet any of these women going forward, but just send them a note of concern under cover to let them know what to watch for if they decide to date him. I know I can’t do this forever since he could change his password again or switch dating sites, and I need to move on with my life as well. The advice I’ve read here says I should just walk away since I have no financial, legal, or career ties to him. Several women are currently corresponding with him. Since he’s independently wealthy, handsome, and charming, they’ll be hooked soon enough. Should I just let it go or contact these women knowing I’ll save a few of them from the pain he’ll surely inflict?
Should she try to warn the next victim, or shouldn’t she? This has been the topic of much debate here on Lovefraud. I wrote about this topic in a blog post back in 2007. But it’s an important issue, so let’s discuss it again.
Factors to consider
If you’re considering warning others about the sociopath, here are factors to consider:
1. Can you warn someone safely?
The first thing to consider, of course, is your physical safety. If the sociopath you were involved with has a history of violence, even if the violence was never directed towards you, I would urge caution.
But safety involves more than worries about violence. Consider also your legal and financial status. If you are in the midst of a divorce or custody battle with your ex, you do not want to do anything that will jeopardize your case, your job, or anything else that he may be able to damage through accusations.
No matter how badly you may feel for the next target, you must put yourself first.
2. What is your emotional state?
Relationships with sociopaths inflict emotional and psychological damage on us. The best way to recover from the damage is to have no contact with the sociopath.
Tracking a sociopath’s actions is sometimes gratifying, however, because we feel like we’re no longer being conned. We see through the mask. We know what he or she is up to. In a way, it’s a boost to our trampled self-esteem to be on to the con. And yes, we probably have to admit to wanting a taste of revenge by ruining the sociopath’s game.
But even if we’re not talking to the sociopath, or sending e-mail, we have to remember that keeping tabs, and warning others, is a form of contact. As we say here on Lovefraud, the predator is still renting space in our brains.
So, before you do it, think about where you are in your recovery. Can you do this and continue to heal?
3. Will the victim’s reaction affect you?
We know how good the sociopaths are, because we were hooked. Think of how the sociopath described his or her prior involvements to you. Did he say his ex-wives were mentally disturbed? Did she say her ex-husband was a stalker? Well, that’s what is now being said about you.
The sociopath is already running a smear campaign to discredit anything that you may say. At the same time, the sociopath is love bombing the new victim. He or she is primed to disbelieve you.
If the new victim blows you off, can you just walk away?
My view
In my personal opinion, if you can warn the next victim without jeopardizing your own safety and recovery, I think you should at least try.
I’ve heard of cases where the victim was grateful for the warning and got out. I’ve heard of cases where the next victim has refused to listen and stayed with the sociopath. And I’ve heard of cases where the victim stayed for awhile, then started to see the bad behavior, remembered the warning, and got out.
I know that since I’ve posted the information about my ex-husband, James Montgomery, online, at least seven women have contacted me to thank me for the warning. They Googled his name, found Lovefraud, and dumped him. I don’t know how many may have dumped him without telling me. This makes me feel good.
However, James Montgomery is on the other side of the world. I’ve had a chance to recover and move on. He can’t damage me.
So if you feel like you need to warn others, remember this: Your first obligation is to yourself. Do what you must do for your own recovery. If you can assist others without hurting yourself, that is icing on the cake.
Learn more: Beyond Betrayal – How to recover from the trauma
Lovefraud originally posted this story on Sept. 27, 2010.
A cult of two – you and the sociopath
To breathless……
You’re right. Most women who’ve been around the sociopath, even a few days/weeks, know something’s wrong. It would take a ton of energy to warn everyone they are hitting on. Who would waste their life doing that? Look at the amount of energy we’ve already invested in this stupidity. I’d rather live alone, and do, than have someone in my life who is deceitful.
Katy,
I think your decision for NO contact is the wisest one for any of us to make. Use that energy for yourself.
I saw oprah yesterday and this woman was on there (she’s written a book about it) whose husband of 6 years told her he was gay and had been cheating. She was devestated! Then the SOB not only hurt her that way, but because she was rich and successful SUED HER FOR MONEY, he only got $26,000 as his part of the marital property.
She then sued him for $40 million (knowing he didn’t have any money but just because she was so WOUNDED) then she realized eventually that by suing him, by thinking about him, the anger at him was EATING HER ALIVE. She said it washed over her suddenly and FREED her and she dropped the suit.
They interviewed him as well, and when Oprah would ask him a QUESTION he would DANCE around an answer, he never ever gave either woman his x wife or Oprah a straight answer NEVER ONCE. His X wife called him a “pathological liar and psychopath” too which I thought was great, but Oprah didn’t pick up on it.
When the x wife and he were on the stage together he tried to pretend they were “great friends” now, but she wasn’t having any of that! LOL Good show.
They can’t be “friends” with anyone because a friend cares about the other person, and they only care for themselves.
Hi Ox!
Been awhile since I’ve been on here. I wish I could have seen that show! The ex-wife sure nailed him with what she called him!
I agree with you on the NO CONTACT. I’ve thought about my own circumstances and for me, warning the next one isn’t an option because when I was warned, I blew it off. The man I knew at the time was nothing like what was described to me and I chose to give him the extra chance. I believed every word he said and told him about the warnings from others. And he had an answer for everything. And that’s how I believe any other woman(or man) would take what I told them.
Of course, LATER all of those warnings proved to be true, but not until I had lost thousands and my own integrity.
Why do they always do that “friends” thing? I saw the ex at a school function and he acted the same way….and all the while I couldn’t even stand to look at him…they really are warped!
Dear Cat,
Good to see you! the “friends” think I think, and boy did my X BF-P want to do that “friends” thing but to him it meant “we will still have sex once in a while when I am passing through town.”
It was odd too, LOOKING BACK, he kept saying “You know, Oxy, even if we were to break up, we would still be GREAT friends!” I remember thinking, “Why is he saying that?” But I didn’t get my answer until later.
The woman (x GF) that he burned her house, he had gone with her off and on, as part of his harem, while he was married for about 8 years. She got divorced, he stayed with the wife, He told her ” I can’t leave the wife, if you want a full time BF you’ll have to go find one, it isn’t me.” (said that to all the GFs and there were 5-8 at any one time)
Well, the GF did that, she found a full time BF, moved him into her house. Nice guy actually, I like him a lot and they seem very happy, been together like 6 years now. Anyway, when the guy’s wife caught him in bed with another woman (REALLY IN BED) she kicked him out of the house. So, what does he do? he goes running to the now X-GF who has her BF in the house with her and says, “DARLING, I”m home, kick that guy out of our bed!”
Well, she says, “TOO LATE SUCKER, you had your chance.” Well, anyway, so he is pithed, BAD pithed, and is “still friends” with her. Later she told me she didn’t have the guts to tell him NC as she was actually afraid of him. So, he starts dating me, and we always end up at places where she and her BF are going (we are all in the same living history group) andhe started looking at me as his next “respectable wife”–1) to get back at here 2) to keep the rest of the harem at bay and from wanting to marry him.
About a year or two after I kicked him to the curb he married another “respectable wife”—I didn’t bother warning her and I don’t think anyone else did either. She’ll find out on her own. He never even stopped or slowed down seeing his harem while we were together. I suspected toward the end before I got proof but you know…it was a lesson I NEEDED TO LEARN and I am quite content now to be by myself without a partner. I sure would not want to be in his wife’s shoes that’s for sure, and I came so close. I was deeply in love with that creep, if neediness and lonliness can evoke real “love”—I’m not sure how much was neediness and how much something else.
In any case, yea he wanted to “still be friends” and that was a resounding NO on my part! There are people (mostly males) in our larger organization that think he’s a “great guy” (even knowing what a womanizing creep he is) but those that matter to me, don’t approve of him or how he operates.
Psychopaths I don’t think realize just HOW we despise what they are because they can’t relate to how we feel about things. About the only think I think they really FEEL is Anger, rage, desire for revenge, desire for control, and glee to any appreciable extent. So how could they know what a “friend” really feels. To them someone who is not actively kicking them in the teeth is a “friend.” LOL
Since you know several of his ex’s, you can all email the dating site and report him. Some are pretty good about removing and blocking them (Plenty of Fish) while others don’t care in the least. Social networks (Facebook, MySpace) will do nothing.
I still worry about his sister, since he moved back in with her (they inherited the house) However, she was never as fooled about him as I was, although I doubt she has any inkling that he is dangerous. The violent temper I only saw at the end, I’m sure she knew about.
I couldn’t warn her because at the time she wouldn’t have believed me and her mother had just died. My X IS dangerous, and telling her might actually put her in more danger since she had no place else to go (she was already living in the house) and would have put myself and loved ones in danger.
I still worry about her, as I never got a chance to even say goodbye, he saw to that, but she will always be family to me. About once a year I run a check on them, trying to make sure he’s staying put and she’s still alive.
Yes, I would love to warn her and talk to one ex-girlfriend and compare notes. The one right before me was a cancer survivor. The one he was having an affair with had terminal cancer, he told me the affair didn’t matter because she would be dead before the end of the year. She also lived across country from him so he couldn’t harm her physically. Ironically, I would have been dead by the end of the year also. Guess he had plans for the next year!
I agree that keeping tabs on them online is a form of contact. I just check once in awhile because I want to make sure he stays put. Sure I’d love to warn whatever women come after me, but I know him well enough to know it won’t do any good. I also believe he’ll stick to being an online predator, since his main goal is to be believed he’s Mr. Wonderful, not money or sex, sex in particular he prefers to keep his women in cyberland. If I happened to run across him on a dating site (very unlikely) I would report him. If someone asked me about him, I’d tell them the truth. He is now denying he’s had a serious relationship during the time he was with me. I can’t help wondering how he explains more than 14 years of “blank” relationship, that ought to warn a few ladies away.
If someone had warned me about him in the very beginning I would have listened. I even asked his friends about him, they were all taken in too, but I found out later he actually had no close friends, all of them just knew him from the group we were both in. And they DID warn me not to let him handle my money, because he was a flake with it. Even knowing that, after I got sick he took over completely.
By the time we moved in and lived together for a couple of months, I was owned. I thought he walked on water. I loved him right up until the Last Lie, in spite of knowing he was lying, lazy and was getting weirder all the time. If I’d been healthy, I doubt we would have made it past five years. My world for the last 14 years had totally revolved around him, I lied to myself to keep the illusion intact. People DID try to gently warn me, I thought they just didn’t understand or that he was screwing up unintentionally. Yet, even though I thought I wasn’t listening, the points they were making were valid ones and I think helped me know subconsciously was was happening to me. Facing the cold hard facts about the relationship was the hardest thing I’ve ever done. Luckily I found Love Fraud. Knowing what he was kept me from thinking I was mistaken/he could change/stay friends/ever get back together, or even stay in contact. Actually, his line about the affair not counting because she was dying pretty much told me I was dealing with someone scary. It did not stop me from WANTING all that, but it helped me know it couldn’t happen. It helped me face the lies I was telling myself.
I was a perfect P magnet. I do warn others about P behavior traits and refer them here all the time. Even if their abuser isn’t a P, there are excellent tools here for surviving and healing and for finally getting healthy enough to LEAVE!!!!!
I think Love Fraud should be required reading for anyone planning to date. I give printouts to my teenage friends about the warning signs. I tell people you can be in an abusive, deadly relationship for a long period, and not even realize you are being abused. That’s my warning system. Giving validation and information to the survivors help me feel better about not being able to warn about my specific P.
Geez, if I ever write a short post, you’ll know it isn’t me, LOL.
Kim,
Hi, I got a chance to read and post on LF, for a bit, I miss you all, just don’t have much time. Haven’t read all the posts, but I see you are thinking about your situation. You are in a process and need/want to be in touch w/your daughter. I have a few things I’ve learned so I will share: it’s all about growing up. That means less emotional response, more discipline. It doesn’t mean you can’t drink a glass of wine, it DOES mean you have to have a good reason. I’m using melatonin and it never worked when I was with the P but it works now! No, I don’t feel safe, but my subconscious doesn’t tell me I’m in danger either. With my P, I felt safe, but my subconscious knew I wasn’t. So I drank.
Try melatonin, at first it gets you too groggy but then you build tolerance.
My BF reacts with DRAMA at the slightest thing. I tell him, “sorry baby, I’m not responding to your drama, it isn’t helpful to me, try the neighbors.” He replies, “ok, you’re right they deserve some drama too.” then quiets down. soon after he starts up again and I tell him, “no matter how cute your whining is, I can’t respond because it’s not going to help me do better right now.”. He shuts up again. I give him a kiss.
DON’T FORGET, THEY ARE LIKE CHILDREN – BE REAL NICE, IT CALMS THEM DOWN. You have snakes. You love them but know they are dangerous so you learned to handle them. Do this again, with SIL and everyone you know. be kind, don’t be stupid, don’t react emotionally. DON’T EVER SHOW EMOTION. THEY EAT IT. GIVE THEM ONLY THE EMOTIONS THAT BENEFIT YOU TO DO SO. Realize that they are dangerous. When I first moved in with my parents, my brother acted alll supportive. IT WAS AN ACT. He waited til I was drunk and high on sleeping pills. He knows people on drugs and alcohol aren’t the most rational, he attacked me, scratched himself, then called the cops on domestic violence. I went to jail for 2 days. My parents knew what he was but didn’t understand the ability of the sociopath to FAKE being human. He cried and said he was sorry , dropped charges etc.. but I still sat in jail 2 days. He said he was afraid that I would call the cops first (the #1 rule for sociopaths: do unto others BEFORE they do unto you). all lies. I have saved him from jail when he did drugs, killed kittens and burglarized homes. He knew I’d never hurt him. but the parental units bought it. P’s are stealthy, don’t let down your guard, especially when on alcohol, they plan, they watch for weaknesses. They are thinking all the time on how your weaknesses can create FUN for them. It’s sick.
As far as warning the next victim, it’s worth it if you are good at it. Do it without emotion. Tell the victim, that you don’t expect to be believed but tell them that when it happens to them to “pay it forward”. You see, it’s not just about you and them, we need to get this info out to as many people as possible. Only then will the world begin to be safe.
Skylar, Hey girl…So nice to hear from you. I sure miss your sence of humor and our late night banter. It sounds like you are doing really well, keeping busy and looking after yourself.
Yes, my situation is stressfull right now. I’ve been reading as much as I can about triangulation, and unhealthy dynamics, reading up on detachment and letting go…saying my prayers. Have decided to focus my attention on me, and do what I can to be the best I can be, with healthy responses, and all that jazz.
It’s funny you mentioned snakes. Night before last I dreamed I saw a snake all coiled up, and had the thought that I was stepping too close to it, but I did it anyway. Well, of course it struck at my ankle, but I had on very thick leather boots, so it couldn’t actually bite me.
It reminds me of my mother telling me that I needed to develope a thick skin. I’m working on that too.
What is meletonin? What does it do? Where do you get it?
Is it a drug, an herb, or what? Do you need a perscription?
I hope we’ll see you again, soon Sky. I miss you.
Dear Kim, Melatonin is sort of like a natural hormone the body makes in the night time, it is sold OTC and you can take it at night to help your body get into sleep mode. (It isn’t a sleeping pill per se) My doctor recommended I take this. Start out with the 1 mg ones an hour before bedtime. I wouldn’t take more than 3 mg though they do sell the 5 mg tabs.
Sky, glad to see you gal. Don’t stay away so long!
OMG, Ox Drover, I just jumped back on LF today and saw yours and others posts about “friends”! Once again I learn something here or can identify. My ex-sociopath has been calling us “best friends” since he’s been gone (4 yrs.) I’m trying so hard not to contact him every week and I don’t even love him any more at all but that “best friends” thingy hooked me………again. There’s no reason in this world for us to be friends except that I would be a “fall back” person in case his next life doesn’t work. It’s all about the sociopath. They are damn charming and act like they care but it’s only to have their needs met. They are such sickos! They are so empty and needy and charm us because we’re good people.
Dear Katy,
With FRIENDS like them you don’t need any ENEMIES!