UPDATED FOR 2024: Lovefraud received the following e-mail from a reader who posts as “forever_me.” She asks a very important question: “Should I warn the next victim?” I’ll answer her question after her letter.
Hello. I am looking for some guidance. I was in a romantic relationship with a P for over 2 years, but just broke it off earlier this week. I discovered that he was using an online dating site and was able to access it because I knew the patterns of his passwords. I created a bogus profile on the same website and contacted one of the women he was messaging. She was shocked to hear from me because my P told her he was single and not dating anyone. What was worse was that they had engaged in unprotected sex a few days before my P and I had unprotected sex. We agreed to meet each other to discuss the details of our relationships with this man. She had been dating him for just over a month.
After my conversation with this woman, I wanted answers from my P, although at this time I didn’t realize that was what he was. I was persistent in my confrontation with him, which took 3 hours of dealing with blatant lie after lie. He initially denied dating anyone else or knowing about the dating site, then claimed he was letting a friend use his identity to cheat on a fiance, then finally admitted he did go on a few dates with the woman I had contacted through the site. However, he swore that he’d never had sex with her or anyone else since we’d been together. In fact, the woman I met was actually stalking him and trying to turn me against him since he rejected her. I eventually walked out the door when he told me he was sorry, not for his actions, but because I was under the misunderstanding we were a couple instead of just friends with benefits. lt is worth noting that during the course of our dialogue, he casually picked up the newspaper to read it and briefly watched the local news as if we were just having a typical evening together.
I was so bewildered by his lies and behavior after I left that I began searching the internet and stumbled upon this blog. Reading the many entries made me realize that I had been involved with a P. All the little red flags added up and I’m coming to terms with the truth. This site has expedited my healing and I thank everyone involved for that!
Now my conscience is wondering if I should continue to warn other women about him? He changed his password but I have once again figured it out. The woman I contacted before was glad I did. I don’t plan to meet any of these women going forward, but just send them a note of concern under cover to let them know what to watch for if they decide to date him. I know I can’t do this forever since he could change his password again or switch dating sites, and I need to move on with my life as well. The advice I’ve read here says I should just walk away since I have no financial, legal, or career ties to him. Several women are currently corresponding with him. Since he’s independently wealthy, handsome, and charming, they’ll be hooked soon enough. Should I just let it go or contact these women knowing I’ll save a few of them from the pain he’ll surely inflict?
Should she try to warn the next victim, or shouldn’t she? This has been the topic of much debate here on Lovefraud. I wrote about this topic in a blog post back in 2007. But it’s an important issue, so let’s discuss it again.
Factors to consider
If you’re considering warning others about the sociopath, here are factors to consider:
1. Can you warn someone safely?
The first thing to consider, of course, is your physical safety. If the sociopath you were involved with has a history of violence, even if the violence was never directed towards you, I would urge caution.
But safety involves more than worries about violence. Consider also your legal and financial status. If you are in the midst of a divorce or custody battle with your ex, you do not want to do anything that will jeopardize your case, your job, or anything else that he may be able to damage through accusations.
No matter how badly you may feel for the next target, you must put yourself first.
2. What is your emotional state?
Relationships with sociopaths inflict emotional and psychological damage on us. The best way to recover from the damage is to have no contact with the sociopath.
Tracking a sociopath’s actions is sometimes gratifying, however, because we feel like we’re no longer being conned. We see through the mask. We know what he or she is up to. In a way, it’s a boost to our trampled self-esteem to be on to the con. And yes, we probably have to admit to wanting a taste of revenge by ruining the sociopath’s game.
But even if we’re not talking to the sociopath, or sending e-mail, we have to remember that keeping tabs, and warning others, is a form of contact. As we say here on Lovefraud, the predator is still renting space in our brains.
So, before you do it, think about where you are in your recovery. Can you do this and continue to heal?
3. Will the victim’s reaction affect you?
We know how good the sociopaths are, because we were hooked. Think of how the sociopath described his or her prior involvements to you. Did he say his ex-wives were mentally disturbed? Did she say her ex-husband was a stalker? Well, that’s what is now being said about you.
The sociopath is already running a smear campaign to discredit anything that you may say. At the same time, the sociopath is love bombing the new victim. He or she is primed to disbelieve you.
If the new victim blows you off, can you just walk away?
My view
In my personal opinion, if you can warn the next victim without jeopardizing your own safety and recovery, I think you should at least try.
I’ve heard of cases where the victim was grateful for the warning and got out. I’ve heard of cases where the next victim has refused to listen and stayed with the sociopath. And I’ve heard of cases where the victim stayed for awhile, then started to see the bad behavior, remembered the warning, and got out.
I know that since I’ve posted the information about my ex-husband, James Montgomery, online, at least seven women have contacted me to thank me for the warning. They Googled his name, found Lovefraud, and dumped him. I don’t know how many may have dumped him without telling me. This makes me feel good.
However, James Montgomery is on the other side of the world. I’ve had a chance to recover and move on. He can’t damage me.
So if you feel like you need to warn others, remember this: Your first obligation is to yourself. Do what you must do for your own recovery. If you can assist others without hurting yourself, that is icing on the cake.
Learn more: Beyond Betrayal – How to recover from the trauma
Lovefraud originally posted this story on Sept. 27, 2010.
A cult of two – you and the sociopath
Hi Kim and Oxy,
I miss the evenings around the campfire shooting the breeze with you all too. I wish I could keep up with all your lives and the things you’ve been up to. You both, as well as many other posters, have wisdom that I need, but there’s no time and I don’t think it would serve me to reveal my logon name to my bf…at this time, or ever maybe. I’ve ended up being SO alert to S behavior that I see it in everyone. I know everyone has some narcissism to one degree or other depending on their stage of development, but what I can’t figure out is if a HIGH degree of narcissism indicates danger. I think that it does. Oxy, that’s why I think you might hold the key to helping me understand. Your “good” son is the key – maybe. You said he is “good” to his friends but that he has no problem deceiving you. Does that mean he would go along with hurting you if his friends decided it?
Here’s what I mean. I think some people would not instigate a murder or rape or other vile act, but would enjoy watching it go down if the person being murdered fit into a certain category or if the act fit into a certain category. For example many men would rape a woman if they knew they could get away with it. My exP proved this by bringing a parade of guys who would rape me if I pretended to be drugged.
The green river murderer would murder women who were prostitutes but not me because I said no to his advances. Both people seemed harmless and very nice. I’ve met a couple of more men who think sex with 12 yo children is a laughing matter and an “understandable” desire. Both very nice upstanding likeable people.
I read all the time about bullies driving people to suicide. This seems ok to them because they didn’t actually kill the person. I’m trying to understand this 2 sided mentality.
It’s like they have compassion but only for some people. Like I can’t kill a mammal but I’ll squash a bug. Do they see me as a bug?
My exP had no compassion for any race or gender. He will kill anyone or anything so he can drink down the drama of the moment or to placate his envy. I doubt there are too many that fall into that category, but how can I know?
hello miss beautiful skylar – if oxy’s son may be the key, then look at what she focuses on when she mentions him: herself, not him. she has decided what she wants and doesn’t want in her life – and who the perp is needs to be secondary – she wants honesty, respect, a lack of lying, and to be safe from potential harm, both physical and emotional. i am sure she would add other things to my list – but this is what i see. basically she doesn’t dysfunction – she isn’t quibbling with herself at this point about the shade of white in the lie, she isn’t even focusing on the motivation of the ‘good son’ – she’s calling out a liar as a liar – this is a bottom line deal breaker for her.
what are yours? and once they are in a list, do you like what you see? are you giving yourself enough respect?
best,
one step (and a big hug to you)
thanks for the kind words onestep.
It’s like nazi germany all over again. everyone knew what was happening but were easily convinced to turn a blind eye while millions of their friends and neighbors were led to slaughter. this is what I’m talking about. It goes on every day right under our noses. Socios convincing the majority that they should hate a certain race or gender, so that when that person gets targetted there will be no one to stand up and say, “THAT’S WRONG, THIS IS A HUMAN BEING NOT A MOSQUITO TO BE SQUASHED”.
Everyone here talks about being strong but that isn’t going to save you when they are leading you away to the concentration camps because you are the wrong color or sexual orientation. The people I’m talking about are the ones who stand by and feel happy to see the suffering, they might join in and throw rocks but they wouldn’t ever instigate it, so they seem so nice. These people are like children, easily led, but there is more: why don’t they have compassion?
How did my exP convince so many people to hate me? my own sister? my neighbors that I was serving as secretary for the community association? What do they do to create scapegoats? But more importantly, what is it about the “good” son that allows him to sit on the fence, being good for most of his life and then suddenly finding glee in hurting others? Can it be fixed? How? The true socio hides among these. He knows their weaknesses and pretends to be “flawed” like they are. But in the true Socio, it’s not a flaw, it’s the totality of their being. They know it and everything is an act to hide it.
Dear ONE!!! and Sky,
I just looked at your post to Sky, and YOU EXPLAINED IT BETTER THAN I COULD HAVE—-thanks for that observation. It is no longer about THEM it is about ME.
Actually, Sky, he DID go along with the Ps when they were persecuting me, trying to drive me off the farm and out of my house. That HURT that he would not listen to me, but did to them. I also realized after he left here last New Years that he had gone along with the Ps (his brother and the Trojan Horse P etc. OTHER TIMES AS WELL) He had been more “loyal to them” than to me. He had been willing to see me through their eyes and to “go along to get along” with THEM because their opinion of him was more important than mine. He cared more for them than he did me. He even did some things that he KNEW WERE WRONG, but he justified it.
When the Trojan Horse P had control over my cell phone account that was in my deceased husband’s name, C-son KNEW IT. He knew it when TH-P turned it off and on to run up the bill and to FARK with my mind. He did not stop the man, he did NOT warn me. He WENT ALONG. Though when I asked him about it later he said “I told him it was wrong to do it.” (but he didn’t man-up and WARN me did he?)
No, he would NOT steal, or rob a bank, and he works hard and is a great employee for his boss—but I realize too that he is NOT THE KIND OF MAN I WISH HE WAS, AND that HE IS NOT THE KIND OF MAN I CAN TRUST to not betray me. I am SAD about that, and I did delude myself that he was better than that. I wanted to believe he was better than that, but I eventually had to continue to allow him to lie to me and excuse it as “oh, poor baby was influenced by this or that, or the other”, or face up to the fact that he was a liar. That he did not meet the requirements of respect and honesty that I require in my close family and associates. I don’t FEAR him. He isn’t going to go out of his way to steal from me or hurt me, in fact, if he and I were hunkered behind a berm and were in a gun fight against the Ps he would probably protect me with his life. He would find that “manly” and “the thing to do” but yet he justifies lying to me, not keeping his word, and joining with others who he KNEW were abusing me illegally and immorally.
No matter how much I wish things were different, because he DOES have some good qualities, but he only displays those good qualities in between lies to me. Kind of like the guy who is a “great guy when he isn’t robbing banks.” LOL
Dear Sky,
Actually, I don’t think the “good son” finds GLEE in hurting me or anyone else (unlike his P-brother) but I think he has less respect and regard for how his actions in “go along to get along” or his “white lies” to cover up his own breaking of the rules of truth.
There are DEGREES of dysfunction even among non-psychopaths. My son C isn’t a “habitual” liar, or cheat, and he doesn’t depend on others to support him financially (though he does NOT make wise financial decisions and though he has kept a steady job since age 15, he is not financially solvent or secure—and he should be if he handled his finaces wisely.)
When he married his P (now x wife) I “blamed” the financial problems in the marriage on her when in fact, he was AS MUCH as or MORE TO BLAME than she was. In fact, HE layed their problems on her door step and came off as “helpless” to control the situation. BULLCARP! I fell for that excuse.
NO MORE excuses, though. Let’s let the chips fall where they may and the TRUTH be identified. He handles his money poorly, he spends unwisely for “toys” leaving little if any reserve for “emergency essentials” and when he agreed as part of his agreement to live here to save 33% of his take home (which he could easily have done) for emergency or for “rainy” day funds, rather than buy “toys” with it—and then he BROKE THAT AGREEMENT and then LIED about it when I caught him. The LIE was the problem for ME. I don’t tolerate people who break agreements or lie within my CIRCLE OF TRUST. People in my circle of trust must ACT in honest and trustworthy ways. He didn’t. Therefore, he is no longer welcome to live in my house or to have any financial assistance in any way from me. He is ON his OWN. HIS CHOICE.
I don’t hate him, if he was in the hospital I’d go visit him, but if his car breaks down and he wants to borrow money, the answer is NO. If he can’t pay his rent because he broke his leg and can’t work, I’ll drive him to the Salvation Army shelter, but he can’t come live with me. If that sounds “cold hearted” to someone then that is too bad, because my son had the chance to be forgiven AND have TRUST restored for the MULTIPLE betrayals of my love and trust, but he CHOSE to lie to me, knowing that would blow the deal.
It’s about me now, and what kind of behavior I will tolerate from those around me. The lines are set in stone and I don’t even have to worry about it any more about “what will I tolerate?” “do I have to worry about hurting this person’s feelings?” Nope, I pick honest friends, treat them kindly and honestly but expect the same from them in return. Honesty, respect and kindness. If they can’t consistently do that, they are not my “friends” and no matter how long I’ve known them or how closely I thought I knew them, it’s best if we part ways.
Oh my Oxy……….how I can relate……….sometimes people think I am so cruel in how distant I can be toward my bio Spath daughter……but she is 34 and it comes from decades of practice! Like your son, she was a good child, seemed so normal until she hit puberty and it has been one roller coaster ride after another……..she has had every advantage in the world and has literally pissed them all away and of course none of it is her fault……..now she has 4 little kids that suffer because of her….cross her and you get “scorched earth” retaliation….shed light on HER faults and she will crucify YOU ! She is in a really bad place right now…..husband is leaving…..she’s a hardcore drug addict and her RN job is in jeapordy if she gets caught…she has lost several jobs in the last few years…..lives in a house that looks like something off the show “Hoarders” and yet it still is everyone else’s fault. I used to care that others don’t seem to get it. They think I should run rescue her, but doing that is like rescuing someone in quicksand….if I do, she pulls me into her dark, pitiful life and I do NOT want to go…..be so very thankful that your’s don’t have kids..! This is the biggest drain on my soul knowing what she has done to them, and also knowing that genetically the odds are that at least a couple of them may turn out just like her…Love you guys……
I have DSL now…………..trying to keep up with Love Fraud on dial up was SO HARD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dear Creampuff,
Well I still have air card and it is about like dial up! still a mess. Yea, I used to WANT GK so bad I could taste it, but now I thank God every day I have none by bio sons. Still none by adopted son either, but at least he is picky about who he dates and isn’t going to get hooked by a P and then have here move to upstate NY or Iran with his kids! LOL So at least that is a blessing! Though at the time I didn’t think so.
Glad you are back CP. I know it is difficult to love those little kids and want good things for them, but at least you have the FOREWARNING of what could be in store and maybe your love and care and empathy will head it off in those children.
If she is doing drugs and is an RN and has lost jobs as a nurse, it is ONLY A MATTER OF TIME until she gets caught, loses her license, and maybe the kids too.
I am glad that you are not trying to either physically, financially or emotionally rescue her, and glad that you are more accepting of that. It is HARD I KNOW!!! We just have to learn (for our own sakes) to ACCEPT what we cannot change and REALIZE we can’t change it and quit beating our heads into the walls trying to fix it.
That has been the hardest thing for me is to stop “trying” on things I have a) no business getting involved in and b) things I can’t fix. Jesus is the savior of the world, not me! LOL
Amen, Sista !!! God help us all………
Dear CreamPuff,
Our spath daughters seem to have been hatched from the same egg! And unfortunately it turned out to be a rotten egg.My older D,{now 46] wasa quiet, studious child,never in trouble, good grades, Uni material,seemed happy, but when she hit puberty the shit hit the fan! Like your daughter! Mine was the same, every advantage, her dad was sober then, she and her sis had a very normal and happy childhood. At Puberty, my lovely shy quiet girl turned into a raging fiend! Drinking, sex, staying out practically all night, lying,foul language, scary violence towards me, wrecking my Art studio [twice.}
She has three lovely kids,aged 15, 12, and 9, Dad now has FT custody of them, but she “baby sits” them in his house weekends, so he can go see his Girlfriend.She, like your, has thrown away every chance,has no paper qualifications of any kind, has lost a{ her home,b} her husband,-theyve been separated 5 years plus,c} her kids,d} her Mum,{me,] as Ive been total NC with her for16 months a nd havent seen her in 2 years.
She lost good friends, great jobs,{she stole around A$62,000 from one company, and they :let her off” with A$12,500 which she still hasnt paid back.} Cant get FT work now,- her reputation is, I guess ,going ahead of her! is couch surfing, only does PT work,and you guessed it, NOTHING is ever her fault, its always, always someone elses fault! Over the last 5 years Ive baled her out to the tune of well over A$10,000, and thats not counting all the home deliveries of groceries fortnightly, the Woolies and Cole store cards to buy food with, all the furniture, heaters, fans, bed linen, blankets, Doonas,et, Ive bought for her.NO MORE! My deadline and Boundary was ONE apology for a ll the rotten, mean things shes done to me,{and I do mean done!}-16 months after I sent her an email plusa letter spellin g out my boundary, Ive heard NOTHING from her. Not one word, either by email, phone call, or a personal visit.In any case an apology would, I know mean zilch, only a means to sucker punch me further, and suck me dry of more cash.I was so hoping my SIL would bring the kids around,hasnt happened. Ive seen them exactly twice in nearly 2 years.I used to worry about her,I dont so much now, NC is really a life saver fo me. I know if rang me, crying on the phone re her self inflicted credit card debt, Id probaby get suckered in again, and I CANT ever let that happen again. For my emotional, mental, and, yes, financial health, I need to STAY AWAY from her. She is a sick sad, manipulative,lying,TOXIC BIATCH! I still have some love for he r,I guess, but I CANT STAND HER!!What did we ever do to deserve these biatches?She confuses kindness with weakness, and this has been my downfall with her.Plus, she isa TOTAL PHONEY!
Love, mama Gem.XX