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By | April 2, 2015 31 Comments

Was Andreas Lubitz, who crashed Germanwings flight into mountain, depressed or a psychopath?

Andreas Lubitz

Andreas Lubitz, the co-pilot who crashed the GermanWings flight into a mountain, killing all onboard.

Editor’s note: The following email was forwarded to Lovefraud by the reader “Jennifer in NYC.” She originally sent the email to government officials in the United States and Germany.

“Flying below the radar”: The real culprit might (again!) be psychopathy (not depression)

By Jennifer in NYC

After it was determined that the co-pilot on Germanwings Flight 9525, Andreas Lubitz, had deliberately crashed the plane into the French Alps last week, the ongoing investigation has raised many questions about his mental health status and other related health problems.  While reports have confirmed that he was treated for what appears to be depression, attributing this catastrophe to his struggles with depression is both wrong and misleading, for various reasons:

First, individuals who suffer from depression (and the majority of serious mental illnesses) are a great risk to themselves; they are rarely a risk/threat to other people.  In sharp contrast, individuals who suffer from psychopathy rarely suffer from “distress” (due to their severe emotional deficiency and stunning lack of conscience), but they always pose a great threat to (the health and well-being of) other people.  Further, while depressed individuals are at great risk of committing suicide; they rarely/almost never resort to acts of (mass) homicide, as was true in this tragic case.

Second, while Mr. Lubitz may, in fact, have been diagnosed with and treated for depression, his emerging psychological profile is far more “complex,” if not—in many ways—“dark,” or even, “sinister.”  According to news reports, his ex-girlfriend (who was a flight attendant) “broke-off” her relationship with him because it was clear that he had “problems.”  According to her, he said:  “One day I’m going to do something that will change the whole system, and everyone will know my name and remember.”  According to the German publication, Bild, this ex-girlfriend said that if it’s true that he (Lubitz) deliberately brought down the plane, “”¦it’s because he understood that because of his health problems, his big dream of a job at Lufthansa, as captain, and as a long-haul pilot was practically impossible.”  If Lubitz was solely suffering from a serious depression then, as previously-stated, he most definitely was at great risk of committing suicide.  However, his assertion reveals an undeniable arrogance, grandiosity, and sense of entitlement; these are some of the noted features of psychopathy, not clinical depression.

Third, according to a posting by a licensed clinical social worker on the (previously-recommended) website, Lovefraud, suicide is a viable option for some psychopaths/sociopaths (interchangeable terms for the disorder):  “”¦it may be less ”˜despair’ and ”˜depression’ with which the sociopath is left when his act has been shutting-down than his preferring to no longer to deal with an existence he knows will cease supplying the gratifications to which he’s grown accustomed, perhaps addicted and certainly privileged.”

The full article/posting:

Sociopaths and Suicide, by Steve Becker, LCSW, on Lovefraud.com.

And finally, an individual who is suffering (primarily) from depression is less able to hide his/her mental illness, due to the (generally) debilitating effects of the disorder, while an individual who “suffers” from psychopathy is notoriously capable of “fooling” anyone/everyone, including mental health professionals.  According to news reports, Lubitz was “treated by several neurologists and psychologists” for a “range of problems,” including “psychosomatic illness,” and “eye problems” (due to the possibility of having a detached retina).  However, if he also “suffered” from psychopathy, it’s very likely that this most dangerous and destructive mental/personality disorder was not detected by any of the professionals who were treating him, or, by anyone who trained or worked with him.  So, whether they are airplane pilots or other “high-ranking professionals,” such as lawyers, physicians, professors, or university administrators, psychopaths “fly below the radar” (of detection) anywhere they are, and they are, therefore, a great threat to everyone, “in the air,” and everywhere.

Additional comments from Donna Andersen

This morning, CNN reported that Andreas Lubitz was “doctor-shopping.” Apparently he had been to five or six doctors for treatment. A law enforcement source told CNN that Lubitz was “very afraid” he would lose his license to fly because of medical issues.

GERMANWINGS: Co-pilot Andreas Lubitz sought help from multiple doctors, on CNN.COM.

But Richard E. Vatz, a professor at Towson University and an editor of Current Psychology, points out that in the psychological literature there is “no serious link” between depression and mass murder. Vatz called Lubitz a “miserable miscreant.”

When evil flies as co-pilot: Some killers are not ‘medically ill,’ but malevolent, on WashingtonTimes.com.

Andreas Lubitz’s co-workers said he was fine the day before the crash, according to media reports. Maybe he had a psychopathic mask in place.

More info:

The minds of those who kill, and kill themselves, on NYTimes.com.


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Imara

Finally!! Thank You Jennifer…and Donna!!!
Even the realm of reporting this evil is so tilted towards excusing…The more we call it what it is the better for the greater good. We can screen for Axis 2 disorders instead of blaming depression…..be more aware that these perpetrators can con systems as easily as they con individuals!!
My commitment is to write to local editorials…Lets spread the word.

Escapefor1

I had similar thoughts. Depressed is wanting to kill yourself. Entitled is deciding to take 150 people with you. I believe he was deeply narcissistic and psychopathic.

surprised

Hyuh, depressed my buttocks. Dude is a mass murderer, is what he is.

marygrace

I completely had this thought! One of the first news articles I saw about this said that his breathing pattern did not change when the plane was going down. This is a person who had zero qualms about killing all those people. That does not say depression to me at all, that says psychopath all the way.

Escapefor1

Yes, I agree. I thought the same thing when I heard about the breathing. Psychopaths get calmer in the face of fear. Their heart rate slows, so probably their breathing too.

AnnettePK

It is not yet definitely been determined that it was a deliberate act, although it appears this is a strong possibility. He may have been incapacitated in some way.

Psychopaths don’t usually harm themselves. Fearing that he would lose his pilot’s license doesn’t fit the psychopath diagnosis – they don’t really fear anything (other than being exposed). Spaths just tell more and more lies and keep trying to get out of trouble and accountability.

True that mass murder isn’t usually an act due to depression. So if he did deliberately crash the airplane, although he may have been depressed also, there was some other mental diagnosis.

Psychopaths are usually too selfish and too self preserving to harm themselves. Those who harm themselves in murder suicides are often delusional and do not correctly understand reality. Spaths understand reality very well; but they have different motivations than those who care about others’ well being, following the rules, taking responsibility, etc.

curls

Annette – I agree, this doesn’t read like psychpathy.

We’re being told it’s mental health issues, with depression only a piece of the picture. So the premiss that it was caused by depression doesn’t match the news reports which aren’t claiming depression as the singular cause.

My concern is that by labeling everything and anything that’s hurtful, as a psychopath, that greatly reduces the power of the term. And the power of any fight to make it get taken seriously.

It may feel good, but it’s self-defeating.

——–

Is the author in the medical health professions? What are their qualifications. Their assessment is very superfically, and not medically sound, since they include symptoms that go with a number of mental health issues as belonging to psychopathy without mentioning all the others such as bipolar disorder.

>”Psychopaths are usually too selfish and too self preserving to harm themselves. Those who harm themselves in murder suicides are often delusional and do not correctly understand reality.”

True in my experience.

I’m willing to let the airline do their job of investigating before I come to any conclusions.

Jan7

The thing that is very complexing is the fact that several psychologist diagnosed him with “generalized social anxiety, depression & PTSD” but never did they diagnosed him with narcissistic personality disorder, anti social disorder, sociopath/psychopath or any other disorder.

To me this is a huge clue into his behavior. This pilot told his airline while in primary training that he was “stressed out” “burnt out” both of these SPECIFIC terms he used describes a person that is suffering from Adrenal Fatigue plus throw in the fact that his own psychologist stated that he suffered from “anxiety, depression & PTSD” which are all issues with Adrenal fatigue.

These same psychologist pumped him full of man made chemicals anti depression including shots. These drugs are know to cause suicidal tendencies and have been the cause of many many family/work place murders by the patient. Sadly the Pharmaceutical companies are able to keep these murders hushed by paying out large court settlements to the victims families before it gets to court/on the news, while the Pharmaceutical companies continue to sell these drug with the world’s governments allowing such because of the huge lobbying effort done by the Pharmaceutical companies including huge sums of money going into the politicians campaign funds (Obama is one of the biggest recipients of these funds). And sadly psychologist keep handing these Rx drugs out.

Another thing that is complex is WHY would a psychopath even go to a psychologist in the first place?

Psychopaths do not think anything is wrong with them mentally. Why would he go if he could lose his job over getting treatment? This does not make since what so ever. Were you able to get your ex sociopath to go to individual or marriage counseling? most likely not or just for a few sessions then they quite. yet he keep going back in search of an answer.

What makes sense though was he went to a sleep specialist in addition and a neurologist. One of the biggest complaints with PTSD, anxiety & depression is not being able to sleep. Lack of sleep cause the body to stress creating more issue such as high levels of cortisol & adrenaline. With high levels a cortisol & adrenaline a person will never heal their anxiety, depression or PTSD, mood swing mental issues etc. This pilot stated that his “job was stressful”. This is another key statement from him that again he was suffering from Adrenal Fatigue. Not being able to handle stress is a key symptom. Did your ex have sleep issues? mine did not he hit the pillow and could sleep through any chaos and drama he created.

I have many friends that are airline pilots and what they have stated is flight training at all levels is extremely stressful. Everyday they are being evaluated to a point they could fail out of flight school and on the job they are constantly being tested and the job itself is extremely stressful on a daily bases with 12 to 14 days, weather issues such as thunderstorms, icing etc, different time zones, sleeping in a different hotel each night, being away from family if their a problem, bad airline/hotel food etc.

Their job is fatiguing and one of the most stressful jobs on the planet. On top of that they are always fearful of losing their medical. Imagine you losing your entire career because of any medical condition exactly like a pilot has to adhere too. Losing your livelihood, your home, stress on a relationship etc. The number one thing that a pilot fears is losing his pilots medical. So this pilot being stress over it is very normal for any pilot.

He did his primary flight training at the Lufthansa flight training facility in Arizona. If you have ever been to Arizona you know how dry the air is and dehydration is common. From May to Sept the temperatures are over 100 degrees and up to 125 degrees. His training was around two years long and stressful. His daily Dehydration was extremely stressful on his body throw in the fact that he was a 14 hour min flight away from his family for any kind of emotional support, he was living in a foreign country, eating different food etc. To me him stating that he was “Stressed out” and “depressed” is most likely a common thing for their flight students in Arizona. Trying to keep up with drinking water in an small airplane without a bathroom is nearly impossible causing health issues and stress on the body.

Dr Amen of the Amen clinic is a highly respected brain specialist AND therapist who has conducted over 80,000 brain scans at his offices around the US. Dr Amen has stated that he does not like to use anti depressant medicine unless it’s the last resort. Instead he prefers a diet change, vitamins, minerals, hormonal replacement, natural herbs etc (google Dr Amen depression you tube to watch his video on the subject). This is a Doctor who has seen what these drugs do to the brain and how they affect patient is a negative way. This pilot who was diagnosed with PTSD, anxiety was running everyday, exercise makes these conditions worse not better, yes if you have only depression then exercise is a must but if you have anxiety/ptsd it’s worsens the issue and it fatigues your body & adrenal gland even more.

It just seems that he went to the wrong psychologist that it was not a mental issue but in fact a physical body issue that was causing his mental issues. To me all his statements plus the psychologist statements all lead to the fact he had adrenal fatigue which can not be healed with Rx drugs that he was given.

I also wonder about the psychologist(s) that were treating him. As we know lots of disordered people go into counseling field including sociopaths/psychopath. What better place for a sociopath to mind control a patient such as this pilot to make him crash…this might seem far fetch but this is the reality that we now live in with terrorist.

Look at all the people going to join ISIS because of the brain washing over the internet. IF a terrorist can not get on a plane because of high security screening they could tap into the pilots mind with trance, hypnosis, brain washing, mind control, gas lighting abuse etc. as this is what sociopaths love to do = create drama, fear & chaos. Or just a evil psychopath psychologist could do great harm to others simply by brain washing & mind controlling a patient to kill others.

In a news interview at the German local flight club where this pilot was a member since he was a teenager all of the pilots there stated that he was quite & respectful. I can tell you that my ex h would not have been labeled these words more like he would been labeled a misfit with anger issues. Yes, what his ex gf stated about him is signs of a psychopath & crashing a plane with 150 people too. But how did he get through flight training for about 2 years without someone coming out and stating he was a con artist? A psychopath has countless victims. Was his behavior with his gf because of the drugs his psychologist had him on? SHe said he was “erratic”. Was he a victim of a psychopath psychologist or other psychopath in his life? or was he himself a psychopath? or did his anxiety, depression & ptsd push him over his edge?

If you look at interviews of Tom Cruise & John Travelta before they became cult members of Scientology they acted normal but now they appear a little crazy because they are so brain washed by the cult. Are they sociopaths? NO they are just being mind controlled by sociopath/psychopath…if they can ever escape and have a good therapist open their mind they will slowly move back to who they were prior. Was this pilots behavior the same?

Steven Hassan cult and domestic abuse expert who has been on 60 mins, larry king live, CNN, Fox etc and author of Freedom of mind states in his book that people who commit suicide are most like involved with a cult or a domestic abusive relationship. Gas lighting abuse will push a victim over their emotional edge. Was this pilot being gas lighted by someone??

To me something just doesn’t add up with the news stories. If you watch CNN they are like vultures reporting anything to get people to watch most of which is false & sensational news.

The Germany & French authorities have asked the FBI to help in the case…why ask the FBI for help?? There is More to this story with the FBI’s involvement that will come out.

Jan7

Dr Wilson adrenal fatigue expert states:

“Adrenal Function in Burnout

Terms such as executive burnout, washed out, used up, and burned out are often used in the work force to describe adrenal fatigue brought on when someone can no longer respond adequately to the demands of their job.* Middle executives, secretaries, and teachers are examples of professionals who suffer from “sandwich stress.” This is stress that comes from having to meet the demands and expectations from above and below without the power or authority to make the necessary changes or to do their job effectively. It is frequently the person in the middle who takes the blame when things go wrong, but not the credit when things go right. People in this position commonly have more than their share of health problems.*

They may also have a higher incidence of metabolic syndrome, a complex of signs and symptoms that includes high cortisol, glucose intolerance, insulin resistance, hypertension, belly fat and accelerated atherosclerosis.* These symptoms largely reflect the cumulative effects on the body of stresses that repeatedly or chronically stimulate the adrenal glands and drive up cortisol levels.* This period of elevated cortisol may be followed in time by an extended period of low cortisol if the adrenal glands fatigue as the result of constant over-stimulation and become less able to respond to stresses.* However, the health effects of the high cortisol phase may remain, now complicated by the adrenal fatigue.*

When the adrenals of a person in a high stress situation fatigue, burnout begins and performance at home and work suffers.* At first, the person is able to cover for little slips in memory and job function. However, with progressing adrenal fatigue, personal productivity declines, tolerance decreases and emotional outbreaks become more frequent or have to be controlled with more effort.* These people may feel they have to push themselves harder to accomplish the same work they did with ease before, and sometimes others have to cover for them. Actually, job performance is usually one of the last things to completely deteriorate. Relationships often suffer first. Marriage dissatisfaction may be deeply pronounced and people experiencing adrenal fatigue may become socially withdrawn.* They can feel trapped with no safe place to retreat to at work or home. As a result, they may act more aggressive or withdrawn, even though they are feeling more vulnerable. Frustrations and fears build up and frequently there is a “final straw” that precipitates burnout or full-blown adrenal fatigue.* The adrenal fatigue contributes to the stress they experience and the stress in turn contributes to the adrenal fatigue.*

People experiencing high stress/high cortisol problems, such as metabolic syndrome, and people experiencing high stress/low cortisol problems, such as burnout, may benefit from focused adrenal support and lifestyle changes that reduce stress, enhance stress management and improve the ability to physiologically handle stress.”

Escapefor1

I also wondered if he had a brain tumor. That would affect his vision, and leads to a fairly quick death, even in relatively young men who are physically fit. Perhaps he wanted to control how he went, and he wanted to go out with a bang. A narcissist (with NPD) or narcissistic psychopath might think in this way.

We’ll have to wait to see what the medical issues were.

Jan7

This was in the Dailymail. com today titled: More then two thirds of people taking antidepressants may not actually have depression.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3024604/More-two-thirds-people-taking-antidepressants-NOT-actually-depression-Doctors-discover-not-meet-official-criteria.html

Jan7

The article continues to state:

“…..They then assessed whether the people in this group met the criteria for a mental disorder, as laid out in the latest edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, the U.S. bible for psychiatric conditions.

They found that 38 per cent of SSRI users did not meet the criteria for a mental disorder, and 69 per cent did not meet the criteria for major depressive disorder….”

curls

SSRI’s have a lot of effects beyond depression.

They add to blood volume, and counter some lyme symptoms, and the list continues for somatic conditions. So even if officially prescribed for depression, it may be a medical condition that prompted the looking for a solution.

I’m sure they are overdiagnosed since “depression” is often pushed when a patient’s problems can’t be fixed or figured out that easily. And I’ve known people on piles of pills without a clue what was truely effective for them (all pushed by doctors).

The article is very lacking. So what were people prescribed them for? What improvements did the people see? What about all the other psychiatric conditions they are used with. It looked like a scare article trying to point out that using while pregnancy increases risk of autism, but then they should have just written an article directly about that!

flicka

Interesting, thought-provoking “take” on this pilot’s illness.

truth7

This is a helpful article into the world of sociopathy and offers more understanding about the recent Germanwings tragedy. I learn more and more about sociopaths and their far-reaching impact upon others.

GoldenGirl

When I heard the news report of the GermanWings crash and the report that when officials listened to the “last sounds” of Andreas Lubitz minutes before the actual crash was “Lubitz’s steady,even breathing” I needed to know NOTHING else.

Only a Psychopath can be that calm at the moment of death.

A non-spath, if you have all kinds of other aliments, depression, whatever, when you know you are going to die, you P A N I C.

Don’t wonder, KNOW Lubitz was a spath of some kind.

My ex-spath loved to challenge himself and others and when he was in a pickle, he thrived. His body would go into hyper-quiet mode. His breathing slowed. He concentrated on the destruction at hand.

He would become focused to the point that I could almost see lasers coming from his eyes when he saw something he was after. He knew I knew and wore sunglasses when in public in the church. What he didn’t know, was wearing sunglasses was a sign to me, he was hunting vulnerable females.

I will never forget when he was delivering a sermon, he stood in front of everyone, inviting the ladies for a sexual-liaison as an aside, right in the middle of the sermon, while the head of the church sat and gloried at how he had captivated the congregation and the collection plate would be full, because the ladies were all titillated.

Fornication is a huge sin in the church. One time he was reading the Tenants and Rules of the church and I told one of the other evangelists to listen, he would NOT include “fornication” in the list of things not allowed by church members. When he passed it over, the person I told laughed because he knew he never followed the rules.

I knew what “my” particular ex-spath does, and the way I learned to interpret him, I could see the “double” meanings to his words and actions. The key was “nobody” can be or do better than him. (Narcissist) If you did, you were attacked. Malignant Narcissist)

If he wanted information or to help me or tell me something or any communication of any kind. He was after something from me that he would gain from it.

I had to figure out what was the something that was accruing to him. I usually could figure it out, by something he said or did earlier (or later) in casual conversation. It was his covert way of bragging about what he pulled off. Sometimes it took more than one event for me to figure it out and a pattern developed. That’s why I kept a journal of what he said and did and could go back and figure out the relevance to current “strange” events.

The journal helped me to sidestep a lot of nasty things he had planned. Sometimes I got caught. Usually petty things, like stealing a book on con-men or my large-print Bible, or some drill bits or SD cards.

To counter, I put my hard drives and gold jewelry in a bank safety deposit box and showed him a picture of the contents.

He said that I was the most intelligent woman he ever met. Compliment…. N O ! It means danger, because no one can be better than him. When he asked what the envelop on the top contained. I told him instructions to the police to know what to do with the contents of the hard drives when I died. I still have laser burn scars in my gut when all he could do was stare at me not saying a word!

My next step is dwelling security with cameras. But, it just ups the challenge to him. He just loves it.

I feel like the pilot, banging on the door, begging to be let in as Lubitz breaths slowly, while accelerating the plane into the side of the mountain!

NotWhatHeSaidofMe

GoldenGirl
ABSOLUTELY spot on. The calmness. It’s a Dead giveaway. The guy is a sociopath. I have not seen any other personality be so disconnected and calm.

My ex was always in total control when everyone else was freaked out. I, too, agree about the breathing… I did not have to hear anything else.

My ex also would consult a therapist. I knew he had an angle, a reason, a hidden agenda. It had NOTHING to do with getting help. I may not have figured out the end game, but I KNEW that he had one.

My ex had MULTIPLE end games. He never had just one hidden agenda. I also knew when My ex was “hunting”. He would be just a regular joe. And when he FOUND his prey, that is when he dolled up, new shirt, haircut, flossed his teeth. But he NEVER pursued them, he just made himself available for them to pursue. What is that saying, He ran as fast as he could so they could catch him?

The most he made himself available for them to pursue him, the more they wanted him. Early on, before I realized it was a dead end to try to tell the other women to leave us alone, I confronted one of the women chasing him. She said to me, “I don’t even know if he’s married!” TO which I replied, “Yet you know who I am… you know I’m. His. WIFE.

NOTHING riled my ex. He was known for his calm. What people didn’t realized was that when he was extremely angry, he was DEADLY calm. Smiling. Easy going, good ol boy.

flicka

It seems strange but in 40+ years of dealing with family sociopaths, my only 2 close encounters revealed their hatred by either swollen forehead blood veins or that insane glare/stare. But their breathing rates never did change, that part was true.

curls

Delusional who believes themselves will also have calm heart rates. Delusional is also more likely to kill themselves, and to go for help over the years, and to need to doctor shop instead of convincing the first one.

I don’t know. I’d still rather wait for more info to judge something this distant from me.

It’s so hearbreaking to think about the family members and what they are going through.

NotWhatHeSaidofMe

I see what you mean about Delusionals. But this man visited with mental health professionals and seems to me that delusion would be easy to discover. Sociopathy, that’s much harder to uncover.

curls

Notwhathesaid

There’s a whole range of delusional situations (mental health illnesses) many of which can look pretty normal a lot of the time. Also mental health professionals can miss things, or one can flag and pass on the info, then ball gets dropped. A bunch of the mass shootings in the last 5 years were like that. (Fort Hood, Sandy hook, Virginia Tech are the ones I remember.)

Definitely calm heart rate makes sense on a psychopath. And lack of normal fear reaction.

The rest of the picture isn’t fitting as well to me.

The image of mass killing to make a name, fits better with manic depression and schizophrenia, and even there are a host of other medical and mental health conditions that can create transient or low-grade looking delusion.

Psychopaths usually control everything well, and look perfectly normal. It’s part of why they dup people so well. When delusional about creating a legacy, they seem to rarely kill themselves, and instead get everyone else around them to commit mass murder — like Charles Manson or that Jones guy.

The sunglasses description is funny — ooh, my goodness, good at controlling the situation…

That the pilot was already diagnosed with a deep mental illness (severe level of depression at one point), gave me a first impresson of manic depression. …or one of the other delusional illnesses. I was surprised the bi-polar wasn’t coming up in news media reports.

Only thing is bi-polar rarely are (excessively) violent or harm any one else. So hard to peg it as that all that quickly either.

It’ll may be hard to know for a long time — as the airline may try to supress anything bad for business.

AnnettePK

It’s been reported that his MD’s recommended he be grounded, so they may have recognized a serious problem, possibly involving delusions. Lubitz ignored their instructions, and it fell through the cracks of the system, which relies on pilot’s self reporting medical conditions.

There is not enough information available yet for even us experienced expert in spathology to make an accurate guess of a diagnosis. More complete and reliable information will come out months or years later when the investigation is finished, and by then it’s old news and not as exciting as the theories and speculation that’s the basis of much information the public gets from the media when a tragedy like this happens.

There are many possible scenarios – he could have been unconscious, under the influence of drugs, or suffering a serious delusional disconnect with reality.

The Texas Tower Sniper in 1966 had gone to several MD’s due to mental health symptoms he was experiencing. An autopsy revealed an undiagnosed brain tumor.

My ex spath would get calmer – heart rate and breathing actually slowed down like in a meditative state – when he was perpetrating someone’s suffering.

If Lubitz did crash the plane on purpose it is a beyond horrible manifestation of evil to the ultimate degree. But it may not be psychopathy as it’s defined. Some facts that don’t fit the psychopathic paradigm:
He sought professional help. Most spaths think they are perfect as they are and don’t see a need to change anything about themselves. They blame everyone else.
He was reported to be diagnosed with depression. Spaths don’t generally have the emotional depth to feel depression. My ex psychopath told me he’d never been depressed (which should have been a red flag – life is hard and it’s normal and natural to go through periods of depression in response to losses and difficult circumstances.)
Spaths are homicidal if they can get some pleasure in watching others suffer, as in the case of murderers Graham Dwyer and Jesse Matthew. Spaths often link sex with their abuse (as many of us victims well know.) Spaths generally are clear thinkers and are motivated by self preservation. A psychopath generally chooses to enjoy a long life of abusing others rather than to end his life. Lubitz was not going to get any personal pleasure, or any other personal gain out of the suffering he caused, which is a hallmark of the spath’s motivation. A spath generally makes choices that cause suffering while escaping any harm to himself.

A person suffering a break with reality will do things that harm himself as well as others because he/she doesn’t understand realistic consequences of their actions. They often think they are doing something useful that will have good consequences, in a completely illogical and nonsensical way.

US airlines have a regulation where if only one pilot is left in the cockpit, a flight attendant has to sit in the cockpit also. The purpose is so that if the pilot becomes incapacitated – loses consciousness or mental clarity for any reason – someone is available to get help.

NotWhatHeSaidofMe

AnnettePK and Curls
My comment disappeared. I think I accidentally sent a report comment rather than reply.

I just wanted to reply to AnnettePK’s correct observation that sociopaths don’t feel depression. I agree.

But… my ex would use a therapists diagnosis of depression as a pity play to excuse his behavior when he went too far. Kinda like you see in Hollywood when someone gets caught behaving badly and they go to rehab. See, it’s not their fault!

So my ex definitely did go seek “help” from therapists, just not for the reason I did.

It is reported, the breathing was calm, even as he increased the speed of the plane into that mountainside. That tells me he was not unconscious. He was not unconscious when he manually prevented the Captain from re-entering the cockpit.

But as you say, and I concur, we don’t have all the info. And until we learn more, all I write is conjecture. So I will stop.

Just wanted to point out, sociopath use therapists, many times. I know my ex manipulated several. And I was blamed for sending my ex into depression, even as I knew he was NOT depressed. It was just a form of pity play and scapegoating, so he would not be held accountable for going beyond what the community would accept. My ex learned the community would excuse anything, as long as he could blame me for making him “depressed”.

AnnettePK

Not,
I also thought about using seeking mental health help as a pity ploy or some other manipulative purpose. My ex P did a bit of that; and it turned into a complicated mess involving several counselors some of whom joined him in blaming me, even calling me up, SA and abuser groups (in which he lied and manipulated everyone including his sponsor) and then misquoted (lied) a ministerial counselor in our church to justify stopping attending when it no longer suited his purpose (which was not to stop abusing and using porn). Exhausting to remember.

Back to Lubitz – I think that if there were underground reasons he sought mental health help, we may never know because it may involve friends and family. There isn’t much information now other than he did see mental health professionals.

There was also a bit of info that his flight training was interrupted for some reason. Again, not enough info to diagnose his motive.

If he had a brain tumor or some other discernible organic brain problem, we’ll never know as I doubt an autopsy is possible.

I don’t understand how steady breathing indicates he was conscious though?

Not likely of course, but private pilots have fallen asleep while flying. Maybe meds could have affected him. There is a strong link between anti depressants and suicide. The pharmaceuticals work hard to keep this information from getting out, but a couple of MD’s are trying to get the info out and make changes in prescribing. I looked into it because an in law suddenly made many attempts after taking anti depressants for some mild depression due to marriage problems.

At one time, a pilot alone in the cockpit had to go on oxygen (because loss of cabin oxygen due to depressurization results in loss of consciousness in seconds). I don’t know if this practice is still in force, though.

Mental disorder diagnosis is a continuum with lots of grey areas. I discern that my ex P would not have crashed a plane with a bunch of people on board. He’d rather fly around the world feeling like a big shot because he’s a pilot sleeping with and exploiting as many women, men, children, whatever he’s into that he can.
Do others here on LF think their ex spaths would have done something like this?

AnnettePK

Another thing to consider is when that Malaysian airliner went missing, the press put a lot of emphasis on the possibility that the pilots might have done it deliberately. The best theory was published right after it happened, and it made sense to most pilots, but wasn’t exciting or interesting for media reports. It’s here:

http://www.wired.com/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

SoOverMySPath

My ex-Spath also glared at me once. I left him. But then he sweet talked me back. Then I saw his disease even more up close and personal. We broke up and now I have implemented No Contact. Best decision ever!

Jan7

I want to add that the “Columbine Shooting” (shooting at a high school in the US that wounded/killed countless students while at school) the authorities did determined that one teen shooter was indeed a psychopath while the other was under the psychopath’s influence of mind control.

So this is why I am complexed about this pilot and the horrible act that he did to his fellow crew/passengers.

Was he himself under the influence of a psychopath say a psychologist or other person? (act of terrorism by a group or individual through this pilot)

Or was he a psychopath?

May the victims RIP & their family find some type of peace for the rest of their lives. So very sad for the families/friends.

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