You are involved, say, with a pathologically self-centered personality, perhaps a narcissist or sociopath?
That is, he wants what he wants when he wants it, and he’ll do whatever’s necessary (his entitlement) to get it, or take it.
Key diagnostic trait: he reserves the right to punish you when you obstruct his agenda.
Now here’s the thing: in the heat of the moment, you may actually be pretty good at confronting his abuse. Maybe you stand up for yourself pretty effectively? Maybe, in the moment, you’re even pretty good at setting limits and challenging his nonsense?
So then what’s the problem?
The problem occurs when you step away from these incidents.
In stepping away from them, you potentially risk enacting your own form of compartmentalization, by which I mean that, while in the moment you may address his abuse with some backbone, yet beyond the moment you effectively “drop the ball” by failing to process, and own, the greater pattern.
It’s a case of our seeing the trees in the forest just fine, yet somehow, defensively, ensuring that we fail to see the forest through the trees.
I’m referring, of course, to a kind of defense mechanism with which some—not all—of us may be familiar?
As I suggested, strategically this defense mechanism deploys a form of compartmentalization, while tactically it assumes forms of denial, minimization and avoidance (of reality).
What precisely is the function and, more importantly, the danger of this defense mechanism?
Its function, I suspect, is to prevent us from connecting the dots; that is, our failure (defensively) to connect the dots enables our avoidance of confronting the greater pattern that underlies the series of incidents.
So long as we address the “abusive incidents” separately—as discreet events—thereby defensively ignoring their wider pattern, then we can rationalize more easily our “staying in” the relationship with a kind of pseudo-dignity and pseudo self-respect.
To be clear, we achieve this self-compromise by reframing the abuse as a series of brushfires to be troubleshot on an ongoing basis, much like a manageable chronic illness.
And especially if, as I’ve noted, we’re pretty good at this—somewhat effective, that is, at confronting these brushfires on a case by case basis—then it becomes easier to compartmentalize in the manner I’m describing.
The danger, of course, is how this defensive process—in its reframing of the exploitation as a series of disconnected, but manageable, events—supports our denial that the relationship has, in fact, been globally and fatally compromised by the exploitation.
This highlights, yet again, the basic conundrum of defense mechanisms: the protection they confer is so often exceeded, unfortunately, by their cost to our well-being and, sometimes, integrity.
(My use of “he” in this article was for strictly for convenience’s sake, not to imply that females aren’t capable of the behaviors discussed. This article is copyrighted © 2009 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)
OXY:
“my head is up my butt today, I’ll go look for it,”
Just try finding a nose to slide down…..something may rattle out your butt!
🙂
XXOO
EB
Dear Kathy,
I went back and read your post and your points are good.
The deal was that 1/3 went to me for room and board, 1/3 for expenses like gasoline, truck repairs, truck payments to me $100 a month for that, his air card, his 12$ a month for rembursement for phone, $25 a month for car insurance, etc. clothes (he shops at Goodwill) and so on, he had more than enough money to pay all these expenses, some money for entertainment and purchases for things he wanted. I sent his lunches and drinks from home, so there was no other costs for him. The 1/3 to go into savings was to allow him to build a safety net so that in the event of major needs he would not have to borrow from me or anyone else. So that he could be INDEPENDENT FINANCIALLY.
So he had 1/3 of his income for really a piddly number of things for his “daily spending” and actually could save up amounts out of that to buy extra ammunition or even a gun at a gun show, or reloading equipment. Discretionary spending in other words.And I never once made a comment much less a big deal about how much of this discretionary income he spent or on what.
While I don’t buy too many “toys” I actually HAVE all the toys I want and son D, like many men can never have too many “toys” is also able to restrain himself about buying toys with the economy that way and our incomes as low as they are now that I have retired, etc. Son C has spent all his discretionary income on UNnecessary things, so when his truck had a seriously expensive repair part need, he took the money out of savings because he did not have any “discretionary” money left—I didn’t say a thing or raise any kind of fuss. I figure he has pretty much honored the agreement and it was a “have to fix it case” so he had the money to do it.
Now, even couch surfing with his friend (who I am sure will give him a “good deal” his expenses will be much higher for living, and I made him pay the car off and take it out of my name and off my insurance. I made him give back my sim chip (the phone itself was his) so he will have to get another plan of his own, but he will have DSL at his buddie’s house so he can save a bit there from the air card he has been using and paying for.
The whole point of him living here was SO HE COULD SAVE MONEY, which if he had had an independent living situation he would ahve NOT had a great one on what he makes, AND also I let him stay here rent free for 6 months because I thought he needed some time off to “contemplate the lint in his navel.” and have thinking time for healing. During that period of time, he sold his old car, used most of the money to make payments to me on the truck I sold him, and worked willingly around here helping out, so I called that a “wash” as far as R & B was considered and a good thing for him.
When he went back to work, the financial agreement went into effect, and I think he has kept pretty much to the spirit of the thing. But it isn’t the ONE LIE, or the ONE “falling off the addictive weagon” or that I think he is Ted Bundy, but it is a GRAVE failure to honor me as his mother, to honor his agreement, and to be truthful, and to be responsible. This is a adult-life-long pattern, that has just now repeated it self and I had not seen anything like it in the 2 1/2 years since his wife tried to kill him and then went to jail. After he moved out of state to one of his friends in another state, he went to work within two weeks of leaving here. So hadn’t had the luxuary of non-working time to heal that I have had. I know that trying to work at a complicated job and heal at the same time is pretty dog gone hard. I was able to provide him a safe place to live and heal for 6 months and I was willing to do so. Hell, I have taken in other people who were “healing” from one trauma or another and given them R & B and a JOB to do that allowed them emotional and mental freedom to heal. So I should do less for my son? Nope, but the rules are the same for him as for others. Be pleasant and reasonably easy to get along with (no one is attacking you here) there are chores to be done and house hold tasks, jump in and give a hand at whatever you see needs doing, or help out when and if asked to do so. That may include anything from feeding the cows to sweeping the floor or emptying the trash or going to town to shop. This is NOT a flop house and everyone pitches in. You are not a paying guest, but a member of the family and members of the family treat each other and our property with respect, you are expected to as well.
None of the rules had changed when he came home and he knew it, and ONE rule had been ADDED…and he knew that. That was ONE LIE AND YOU ARE OUT. NO SECOND CHANCES ON BEING CAUGHT IN A LIE OF ANY KIND FOR ANY REASON.
If we have a misunderstanding, we sit and talk about it, but a LIE is NOT a misunderstanding or a “mistake” it is deliberately done to conceal something we don’t want others to know because we know they will not like that behavior or approve of i, so rather than “man up” about something we have done, we disrespect a person who loves us and who has treated us with respect and given us opportunites to live together in a loving and good relationship.
So, what is more important, his relationship with is mother and brother and his home, or concealing that he has BROKEN HIS WORD knowing that a lie will lose him a relationship and his place at my table, which is obviously where he wants to be because he had a choice to come here or not when he asked to come here. The gate does not lock from the inside.
As sad as it makes me, as much as I grieve for the loss of my relationship and the trust I had for my son, the HOPES that I had for my son, I cannot see him accepting as your son did, Kathy that he has an addiction. He doesn’t see it as such.
Yes, I know that there are other past times that can be addictive. My son D’s sister’s boyfriend is putting himself through premed at a very expensive college because he plays “Magic cards” tournament level and has won enough money to PAY HIS TUTITION AT THIS SCHOOL THAT HE COULD OTHERWISE NOT ATTEND, but it is a past time, not his whole life, and he is not irresponsible with buying cards (which can be expensive and cost 1,000s of dollars) and yes, the kid is a geek in the best sense, bright, a little weird, but very nice and has a well rounded life, including the Magic Cards and a social life.
I do not doubt that C has some problems with self esteem or that he gets a great deal of self satisfaction out of his games and being good at them and apparently he IS good at them. But the fact that he is willing to LIE about it as well as spend so much of his free time involved in it, as well as be willing to give up everything for it, to LIE for it. And plus, these lies were not INSTANT LIES that just happened to slip out his mouth when confronted, but were WELL CALCULATED IN ADVANCE to cover up, by getting the money, opening the bank account, keeping my name off it, and then his big “story” to explain why the bank account with me not on it was a “good thing.”.
I do have hope he may someday come around, but I am not going to bet the farm on it. I keep having these thoughts of how to ‘fix it” and who could I get to talk to him that he would listen to and so on, but you know. I don’t see how I can fix it, and I am not going to try. His addicted buddies aren’t going to see much wrong with what he did (if anything) and it isn’t like he robbed a bank. But since he has gone 2 1/2 years without I think lying to me how could I ever fully trust him even if he came back to me and really apologized? Maybe it would be another 2 years again before he felt the “need” to lie to me, but how can you have a relationship with someone you cannot TRUST, someone who will LIE TO YOU ANY TIME IT IS CONVENIENT FOR THEM TO DO SO.
I know for a fact, he cut his grandmother off like a wart on his nose for lying to him twice, I can only imagine the flack he would have gone through if he had caught ME in a lile, or if I had broken any agreement with him. So what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, and it means I can’t have a relationship, a superfiscial relationship with someone I love but cannot trust. If I could do taht, I would go to Texas and visit my son there and listen to him lie to me. Or go up and visit my aging mother and listen to her lie to me.
Sure, that means my family now is 2 poeple, myself and my son D and I may wind up a lonely old woman without any family and that’s a shame if it happens, but I have friends, fortunately, and I am a tough old bird, I have weathered other storms and I sincerely think that PRACTICE at adapting after grave losses is somewhat of a learned behavior. It doesn’t make it a lot easier, but quicker at least I think.
That’s one reason I think kids need the chance to grieve for lost pets before mommie and daddy get them a new doggie or kitten, I think it prepares them for later and bigger episodes of grief. KNowing you CAN lose something or someone very prescious to you and survive is a good thing to know. Dr. Viktor Frankl wrote about it in “Mann’s Search for meaning” and I think I will read and reread some of that tonight.
I fell down while ago and fell with all my weigh ton my lerft knee which is quickly turning blue and swelling underneath a large bag of frozen peas (they make great ice packs guys, I learned that from a great plastic surgeon 20 or 30 years ago).
I’m going to sign off here pretty quick and go on and snuggle in my bed and read a while and hope to go to sleep. I’ve got a killer head ache from crying and my nose is running. You guys be good to each other tonight and keep me in your prayers, I sure need it cause I’m lower than whale poo at the bottom of the ocean right now. Love oxy
Oxy:
You take care of yourself……don’t ‘fall apart’ …..make every step count and pay attention to how your feeling…..
Don’t allow yourself to get sick over this……really!!!
I’m sorry your on such a low flying plane at the moment….but I know how strong you are and I know your gonna rise to the rainbow very soon!!!
XXOO
EB
Oxy: hang in there, hope things work out and you feel better soon!
EB: It’s hard with our kids because we give them life and everything in us tells to always protect them……so it goes against our instinct to cut them off.
Dear EB it took me a long time to finish the posts above, I had to take a break on each one and walk away from the key board for a while. It seems like I need to say it, need to see it in print, but at the same time I have this CRYING NEED to call him up at his friend’s house and to APOLOGIZE TO HIM FOR BEING UNREASONABLE BY BEING SO UPSET AT HIS LIE. LOL
Gosh Have I been there before wanting to call the BF P after I had told him to leave and never come back, to call him and say “please forgive me and come back.” LOL
It is crazy how things get stuck in your mind and how when you are grieving (at least me, I won’t say everyone thinks like Henry’s “twisted sister” LOL) but I got to thinking about the various people that through the years for one reason or another I had actually told to get off my real estate and never come back, some I had to get the sheriff to remove, but a good many of them were family members LOL
my Son D and I sat down and verbally made a list, then we started to write it down, and the list got up to 43 people, including Son P, my son C, my egg donor (off my end of the farm) a foster kid, a 20+ yr old friend of C’s who was dry-humping a 14 year old kid who lived in our rent house out by our pool and wouldn’t quit, various renters who wouldn’t pay, painted the living room purple, moved 10 people into a small house, had pets that they abused, one woman lawyer who rented our 4 bedroom house with a pool to KEEP HER HUGE NUMBER OF DOGS IN BECAUSE IT WAS CHEAPER THAN KENNELING THEM AT $12 A DAY EACH! LOL and on and on, including a used airplane salesmen, a friend who cheated us and wouldn’t pay his bill, and more of various friends and family, it was interesting and I have thrown one off my property at least averaging 1 a year for my adult life! Pretty good record I would say, friends, family, renters, veterinarians, neighbors, husband’s friends, my friends, our friends, customers…men, women, from 18 to 65 in age. Thieves, abusers, liars, cheats, murderers, ex-convicts, serial adulterers, house burners, pedophiles, animal abusers, deal breakers, people with pity plays, people who felt entitled, and people without any respect for boundaries.
D and I laughed about it, but looking back on it, every blasted one of them DESERVED ROUNDLY to be told to get out and stay out. I don’t miss a single one of them except my son C, I’ve cried over many of them, been madder’n hell over some of the others, suprised by a few, hurt by some, devestated by others, and just irritated as heck by some of the others.
I’ve Done my best to be good and fair to all of them, and with the the NON family members (or very close friends) I never had a backward glance at never seeing their miserable faces again–not all of them were Ps by any means, probably only 1/3 of them, but they were all people who were dishonest, tried to get something for nothing, or to put one over on me or to hurt someone (or animals) and I finally stood up even if it did hurt, and I will manage this one too.
I had planned to go t Texas next monday to visit my best friend for a week or two, but I am going to post pone the visit for a few days or a week as she is down with a cold, and i don’t think I need to go off and leave D here alone for a few days til he feels better and I don’t think I need to be driving 350 miles when I am still involved in “recto-cranial inversion.”
Dear T.B,
We posted over each other, and you are so right, it is difficult to cut your kids off if they are not Ted Bundy like my P-son is, and I know that C isn’t a P, he has 2 good sides of the triangle, the ability to love and a moral compass (conscience) but he lacks impulse control. His ADHD may contribute to that, but it is a really BIG thing, and his “addiction’ is to something besides a substance, so there is no urine test or hair test for video games or ownership of more and bigger computers, and no blood test for lying.
You talking about how your children trashed you behind your back, and so on made me think about before my DIL’s arrest (Gosh how I love those words—my DIL’s ARREST!—stop it Oxy, your horns are showing!) anway, before her arrest they all got together like a witches coven and stirred crap about mean old me, and how they were going to handle me, put me in my place etc. and in the end, it didn’t turn out like that. I don’t have a problem seeing my P-X-DIL or the Triojan Horse or my P son even “get what’s coming to them” from their choices, because they don’t have consciences, but it does hurt to see my son C go down a path that I know leads to finiancial and personal and emotional destruction and depression and unhappiness–for what? an adrenaline fix?
This is especially hard when you love these people so much. I never loved the TH=P or my DIL, but with my P-BF and with my P son and my egg donor, I loved these people and it hurt but I can get to a spot where I don’t mourn over their loss any more, it just IS, but the thing with C is so FRESH that I feel like I am back to square one with them all.
It is odd, funny, how ever you want to phrase it, but with PAIN, physical or emotional I think Viktor Frankl is right, it is like a gas, it FILLS the container completely, and EACH pain is TOTAL and fills your entire being physically and emotionally.
People who have been physically tortured say that like we find in Child birth that there is a LIMIT of how “high” pain can go and when it reaches that limit it can’t go any higher, it is total. I think emotional pain is like that too. I guess I am still in SHOCK and maybe a bit of denial as well, and my emotions going up and down from denial, to fix it, to sadness, to bargaining, but no where near acceptance yet. It takes us a while to get to where we can accept that what is is REAL and we are not imagining it, there is acceptance that WE can’t “fix it” no matter what we plot or plan, it is OUT OF OUR CONTROL. We cannot control how others treat us, we can only control how we react and to some extent, how we feel.
Right now, I feel sad, angry, disrespected and devalued, by my son C, and those feelings are MY feelings and they are valid for me. No one can tell me I have no right to feel that way in response to how he behaved, but i do not want to feel this way forever, because even though I have LOST the trust I had in him to not deceive me, the trust I had in him not to lie to me, am disappointed that he is acting in a way that I think is irresponsible and unwise, his actions are his choices not mine. Just as P-son’s choices are his not mine. I wanted GOOD things for my children, I taught them as best i could how to be responsible, honest, and kind. They have not always behaved as I would have wished them to behave, but at the same time, I am responsible for how I ALLOW them to behave toward me. I cannot stop C from deciding to spend every cent he earns for computers and video games adn spending 100% of his free time playing them or hanging out with guys who act the same way, but I do not have to allow him to live in my house while he behaves this way. I do not owe him anything, and he doesn’t owe me anything. He is an adult even if he does not act as a resonsible adult does, and HE GETS THE CONSEQUENCES. hE HAS HAD THE CONSEQUENCES OF IRRESPONSIBILITY and bad choices in the past, and he will have them in the future unless he changes his ways and his attitudes, but that isn’t under my control, and your kids are not under your control either. I know you love them, as I love my son, but we can’t make them value us against their will. No matter how much we love them, no matter how much we give to them or offer our own love and care, they don’t have to care back.
It hurts if they don’t treat us the way we treat them, or wish they would treat us, but going through the grief process and accepting that WHAT IS IS REAL and we HAVE NO CONTROL over their thoughts or behavior, only our response to it, is where I think we have to work on going.
Right now, I feel pretty lonely and only a week ago I was at the TOP of the WORLD feeling like I had everything I could possibly wish for from my two sons. It can hit you out of the BLUE when you least expect it, or you can see little “signs” or flags and try to excuse them, but however it hits, you and I and everyone else, we can live in the FOG or we can live in the light and walk toward that light. It is just a hard road, and one that has pot holes we don’t expect. Hang in there GF! (((hugs))) and my pryaers for you and for myself and all our kids. Love Oxy.
Oxy,
What I’m hearing is a combination of your son breaking an agreement with you but also failing to live up to your expectations of him. They seem to be intertwined. That is, you had planned for him to utilize his money in a certain way not only to do his share for the household, but also to build something toward his future. He seems to have let you down. He may just not be the person you wanted him to be or hoped he was. Or maybe he wants to be but feels like he can’t for some reason. It also possible he didn’t feel emotionally safe telling you the truth. He may have feared being judged or criticized. These fears will motivate even the most decent person to lie.
I support you not enabling him. I would not do it either. I also hope, however, that once you forgive him, you can try and understand his motives and get to know him for who he really is–weaknesses and all–even if he is not what you’d hoped he would be. You may be able to help him in a way that is not enabling.
As I am writing this my heart aches for you because of what you went through with your P son and all the years you tried to believe in him before you gave up. I want to believe that you can have more hope for your relationship with son C. Doesn’t sound like he’s a sociopath. And when someone is not a sociopath, it’s okay to believe in them even if they are not perfect.
As for me, I’m still hoping to get a paid job blogging on internet forums. LOL
Love and hugs,
Star
Oxy, your situation also makes me think of my mother who I wanted to believe in for so many years, but who I finally gave up on. It’s very painful to think about it even now after all these years. In a way it is her karma to have no relationship with her children after she threw them to the wolves in their childhood. I imagine she must feel some sort of remorse. But she is not capable of feeling the depth of pain we both suffered over her choices, choosing an abusive man over us. My mother broke my heart to little pieces. I wonder if the hurt ever goes away. It seems the only way to have her in my life is to pretend it wasn’t so bad and to give her the parenting she never gave to me. I just can’t do it. I’m not that big a person. So I just go through life with this hole in my heart. I wonder if it will ever end. It seems to be at the bottom of everything in my life. It’s as if my personality rests in my mother’s betrayal. And it doesn’t help that I still love her, and that knowing she is sad too hurts me. I want to comfort her. But I can’t. My pain triggers all of her dysfunction.
My mother never had any hopes for me. She was jealous of me. I’m sure I’ve already achieved more in my life than she’s ever dreamed of, and she resents this.
Darling dearest pal Oxy, I just got home from an oernight stayy in a motel near my new”kids’ new tiny rented unit. They stayed over N.years night, saw the New year in with us, then Abbas drove Roya and me to see their new place. Tiny, noisy, but clean, and it will do them for a while. I stayed in a motel o’nite as they had no place to put me up. They were so pleased that I came to check out theor new place! Just got home, raining now, 40 deg. c. 10 per cent humidity, like aTurkish bath! So, I only just now saw your post re your son.I am so, so sorry, but Im in no doubt you have done the right thing. Its still very painful for you, of course. My thoughts and prayers are with you. Will write some more after Ive had a shower! Meanwhile, stay strong, hang tough, be resolute. You have helped so many of us, myself included SO MUCH!!We all love you, you are a legend! {{{HUGS!}}Gem.XXX
Hi Star,
You relationship with your mother reminds me of my own with my mom. Not because I’ve acheived anything, but because that relationship is what makes me sadder than any other. Her emotional abuse is what seems to keep me stuck in depression – I’m finally admitting to myself that I have depression. All the new stuff going on in my life is tainted by it and it makes it hard to accomplish anything.
I wish I knew that answer to getting over this so I could share it with you. It might have to do with going NC like Oxy did. Maybe that’s the key. both my parents tried to apologize in a very lame kind of way the other day. Not actually admitting guilt but trying to tell me that they would support me. They are anxious because I’m spending all my time with my new BF and they know I’m not ever going to let them meet him. I believe that they just don’t want me to escape from their hooks. I’m really GOOD N-SUPPLY, so, as in the past, if I let them in, they will just rinse and repeat the past.
I miss you Star, and everyone on LF. I’m no longer able to log on as much and post and I miss everyone so much. I think about you and pray that one day there will be a resolution to this problem of liars and sociapaths.